PDA

View Full Version : ***SPOILERS*** Is this where the Templars finally win?



ChiberianWinter
12-03-2014, 06:54 AM
THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR AC1-Unity so BEWARE

Also, just to be safe, I'll put spoiler tags on my whole post.

So, in every major AC installment we've had (AC1,2,B,Rev,3,4,U) the Assassin Order comes out on top of the Templar Order, usually always to the actions of the game's protagonist.

AC1: The Brotherhood is an actual organization and Altair eliminates/severely weakens Templar influence in the Levant. End result: the Assassins are in a better position than the Templars (until the Mongolians destroy Masyaf)

AC2/B. The Brotherhood is more behind the scenes but has a strong influence in Firenze and Venezia. Ezio, with the help of assassin's like Bartolomeo, La Volpe, Machiavelli, etc... Eliminates Templar influence in Renaissance Italy and causes the demise of the Borgias, Barbarigos, and Pazzis. End result: the Assassins are in a better position than the Templars

ACRev: The Ottoman/Byzantine Brotherhood, led by Yusuf Tazim, is well established in Constantinoupoli/Istanbul and Ezio arrives just in time to foil a Templar plot. End result: the Assassins are in a better position than the Templars

AC3: With the help of Achilles, Connor rebuilds the Colonial Brotherhood from scratch and kills all of his Templar targets, effectively destroying any military/political Templar influence in North America. End result**: the Assassins are in a better position than the Templars **Until we get a conclusion on the Shay/Connor situation

AC4 (my personal favorite story): Edward kills Torres, Ducasse, and El Tiburon. Rogers is sent back to England in disgrace. The Assassins have placed firm protection on the Observatory and have hideouts on Tulum and Great Inagua. End result: the Assassins are in a better position than the Templars

ACU: The French Assassins are clearly well connected (Mirabeau) and are not at a lack for manpower. Arno is able to kill Germain, LaFraniere, and several other Templars while both de la Serre's die, essentially leaving the Templar Rite of France in a powerless position. End result: the Assassins are in a better position than the Templars


I don't count AC Rogue because 1. Connor undoes all of Shay's work 2. Shay's story isn't 100% finished so we don't know who really comes out on top in the end in the America's.



Wouldn't it be nice for once if in AC:V, the Templars came out on top of the Assassins in the historical plot? Our protagonist wouldn't even have to die, he/she could just witness all of his/her efforts end up in naught as the Templars are able to pull from their limitless resources (due to the large wealth of the Empire) etc, etc... Besides, we need some explanation as to how Abstergo is so much more resourceful/powerful than the Assassins in the modern day plot (if there is one anymore). It would be nice to see the Asasiyun Order as an established thing that is somehow demolished due to one reason or another, and the protagonist could be witness to all of this and helpless to stop it.

Please, post your thoughts and feel free to debate on any points I've made!

Rafe Harwood
12-03-2014, 06:59 AM
I wasn't sure what the spoilers where about, so thank you for that first line.

I will leave and come back after I have played the thing lol

PTE Reilly
12-03-2014, 07:03 AM
god I hope not, why would I want to see the bad guys win? I hate it enough that we have to play as a templar in Rouge, I can understand why this would appeal to people but imo I like being an assassin and seeing them win

hapkidolaurent
12-03-2014, 07:33 AM
god I hope not, why would I want to see the bad guys win? I hate it enough that we have to play as a templar in Rouge, I can understand why this would appeal to people but imo I like being an assassin and seeing them win

If you paid close anttention to Rogue then you would see that the templar arent "Bad" people. The same that the Assassins are "good" people. Its because there is no Good and Bad. There are just two fractions. One battles for Order and Control (such as the Gouvernement today) and the one who battles for liberty, selfthinking but with liberty comes also chaos (like most anarchy today).

souNdwAve89
12-03-2014, 07:39 AM
I wouldn't mind, but it really depends on how it's executed. I would love a game where the Assassin - Templar war is at its height in the region. The only problem is that I don't want it to be so simple as who is good and who is bad. I want them to continue with the idea of the war being so gray. I thought they did a pretty good job with the French Templars in Unity until Germain was rising to power. The French Assassins and Templars were pretty passive with one another. They used their heads and try to use reason when deciding what to do. I mean, if they wanted to, they could have killed Elise when Arno brought her to their HQ, which is what Bellec wanted.

Xstantin
12-03-2014, 07:47 AM
god I hope not, why would I want to see the bad guys win? I hate it enough that we have to play as a templar in Rouge, I can understand why this would appeal to people but imo I like being an assassin and seeing them win

Maybe cause they're not "bad guys" (we literally know nothing about Victory's Templars for now). Maybe because it'll be interesting plotwise (set-up for future games, dramatic event for the protag to deal with etc.). Sometimes it's good to feel bad when it comes to fiction.
For example, I think it'll be interesting to watch an established Assassin struggle as their order falls apart - that'll never happen though, I guess we'll get another twenty-something who destroys the Templars cause that's what people like :)

PTE Reilly
12-03-2014, 07:53 AM
To be honest ive not actually played Rogue yet but I will get around to it I was just saying I dont like the idea of playing as a templar.

Also I know that the Templars arn't "bad guys" per say, but thier whole ideology just seems pretty messed up tbh, They want peace through control and to me that seems like the illuminati type behaviour

VestigialLlama4
12-03-2014, 07:55 AM
THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR AC1-Unity so BEWARE

Also, just to be safe, I'll put spoiler tags on my whole post.

I don't count AC Rogue because 1. Connor undoes all of Shay's work 2. Shay's story isn't 100% finished so we don't know who really comes out on top in the end in the America's.

Wouldn't it be nice for once if in AC:V, the Templars came out on top of the Assassins in the historical plot? Our protagonist wouldn't even have to die, he/she could just witness all of his/her efforts end up in naught as the Templars are able to pull from their limitless resources (due to the large wealth of the Empire) etc, etc... Besides, we need some explanation as to how Abstergo is so much more resourceful/powerful than the Assassins in the modern day plot (if there is one anymore). It would be nice to see the Asasiyun Order as an established thing that is somehow demolished due to one reason or another, and the protagonist could be witness to all of this and helpless to stop it.

Please, post your thoughts and feel free to debate on any points I've made!

Well the Victorian Age was a time of unbridled British monopoly, hegemony and wealth...at the expense of bleeding dry the resources of other nations. The Empire justified their actions by stating they were promoting "Free Trade"(they weren't), that they were spreading democracy and progress (by surpressing free speech, denying elections and imprisoning people without habeas corpus) and that they are better than other European Empires in their colonies(most of them got into the colonial game later than England and their atrocities were no different from England and America in their earlier time), so all in all a very Templar era, where few Englishman (liberals included) criticized the practise of colonialist exploitation, the only major one was the politician Charles Bradlaugh, the famous atheist and lover of Annie Besant. Cracks only began in WW1 and with WW2, they put their entire wealth into the Home Defense and Churchill realized that England would need America's help to support the Empire and Roosevelt told him that he wanted England's colonies to be free and have actual free trade with the UN.

In any case the Templars won in UNITY too, as the bad guy gloated in his death. The Assassins seem to have had a mixed 20th Century doing okay and surviving until the 21st Century.

souNdwAve89
12-03-2014, 08:42 AM
To be honest ive not actually played Rogue yet but I will get around to it I was just saying I dont like the idea of playing as a templar.

Also I know that the Templars arn't "bad guys" per say, but thier whole ideology just seems pretty messed up tbh, They want peace through control and to me that seems like the illuminati type behaviour

The Assassins aren't saints themselves. How can they claim that their order wants peace, but are willing to murder those that they THINK will get in their way? Sometimes, they are willing to cause chaos, if needed. An example would be Ezio in Revelations. I forgot the actual mission title and structure, but it was the mission where Ezio believes that Tarik is working with the Templars. Ezio had to get inside the weapons armory, but it was heavily guarded. There happened to be protesters outside, and Ezio pretty much instigated a riot in order to get passage inside the armory. There were civilian casualties, and one of the objectives was to protect as many civilians as possible. It took Yusuf to convince Ezio in doing it too. And don't forget the Cappadocia incident either...

Besides, some Assassins admitted that some of their ideals are contradictory. Without spoiling, the Russian Assassins were pretty messed up towards Nikolai Orelov in the comics. In AC2, Desmond said that he is happy to be with the good guys, and Shaun told him that they are achieving their goals by killing. In Altair's Codex, he even questions the Creed too.

I'm not trying to say I favor the Templars over the Assassins, but just wanted to say that throughout the lore, and in the games, the Assassins have done some bad things that many people think would associate with the Templars' action. That is why I love one of Haytham's lines in AC3. Connor claims that freedom is peace, but Haytham rebuttal with that it's an "invitation to chaos".

PTE Reilly
12-03-2014, 08:49 AM
The Assassins aren't saints themselves. How can they claim that their order wants peace, but are willing to murder those that they THINK will get in their way? Sometimes, they are willing to cause chaos, if needed. An example would be Ezio in Revelations. I forgot the actual mission title and structure, but it was the mission where Ezio believes that Tarik is working with the Templars. Ezio had to get inside the weapons armory, but it was heavily guarded. There happened to be protesters outside, and Ezio pretty much instigated a riot in order to get passage inside the armory. There were civilian casualties, and one of the objectives was to protect as many civilians as possible. It took Yusuf to convince Ezio in doing it too. And don't forget the Cappadocia incident either...

Besides, some Assassins admitted that some of their ideals are contradictory. Without spoiling, the Russian Assassins were pretty messed up towards Nikolai Orelov in the comics. In AC2, Desmond said that he is happy to be with the good guys, and Shaun told him that they are achieving their goals by killing. In Altair's Codex, he even questions the Creed too.

I'm not trying to say I favor the Templars over the Assassins, but just wanted to say that throughout the lore, and in the games, the Assassins have done some bad things that many people think would associate with the Templars' action. That is why I love one of Haytham's lines in AC3. Connor claims that freedom is peace, but Haytham rebuttal with that it's an "invitation to chaos".

yeah I do realise that the assassins are a bit contradictory and arn't perfect but I still see them as the better of the two factions. I also realise that the templars are made out to be morally ambiguous but the majority of them do seem pretty evil to me where as the majority of assassins have the heart in their right place

The8bitAsian
12-03-2014, 09:05 AM
Technically in the modern day story, the Templars are on top. Just sayin :(
I saw you said "historical plot" but still, that is the reason why I love AC because it is able to tell a historical and present day story to blend it in one game.
For Example
In ACIV you start of as a clueless abstergo employee working on the Sample 17 project. You use your animus to relive the memories of Edward Kenway and watch him kill templars and watch how the Assasins claim victory or claim a "better postition". During your time at abstergo, you also hack your workmates computers and abstergo servers and begin to learn about templar secrets, conspiracies, future plans, etc. You get to see templar plots and how they are now winning the war between them and the assassins. You also get to learn more about Abstergo's plans in Rogue (I have not hacked all the computer/servers yet in Rogue). As you can see, there is still a story plot where the templars are in control and on top over the assassins.

It creates a universe of infinite possibilities with the Assassins and Templars, First Civilization, etc.

MakimotoJin
12-03-2014, 10:55 AM
Technically in the modern day story, the Templars are on top. Just sayin :(
I saw you said "historical plot" but still, that is the reason why I love AC because it is able to tell a historical and present day story to blend it in one game.
For Example
In ACIV you start of as a clueless abstergo employee working on the Sample 17 project. You use your animus to relive the memories of Edward Kenway and watch him kill templars and watch how the Assasins claim victory or claim a "better postition". During your time at abstergo, you also hack your workmates computers and abstergo servers and begin to learn about templar secrets, conspiracies, future plans, etc. You get to see templar plots and how they are now winning the war between them and the assassins. You also get to learn more about Abstergo's plans in Rogue (I have not hacked all the computer/servers yet in Rogue). As you can see, there is still a story plot where the templars are in control and on top over the assassins.

It creates a universe of infinite possibilities with the Assassins and Templars, First Civilization, etc.

I got some sympathy with the Templars,like da Costa,Melanie,and Otso Berg.I mean,have you seen his story?It's.....it's pretty screwed up.

ChiberianWinter
12-03-2014, 04:57 PM
I think it's awesome how Ubisoft has sometimes shown the Templars in this morally grey light. That being said, I would never want to actually PLAY as a Templar. They've definitely dropped the ball on some occasions, but overall they've done pretty well. I still wish they talked about how Torres set up those hospitals in Cuba in AC4.

But anyway, I understand this is a series about assassinations and while I loved Unity's open ended assassinations during the main campaigns, I couldn't help but feel a bit too familiar and bored with the story. How is it that Abstergo is so powerful if in every game that we have played so far the Assassins (and usually just our protagonist) wipe out the Templar in these various time periods. A reversal of that formula would be interesting and tragic. We've seen Edward lose all of his pirate friends, we've seen Arno lose the love of his life, and we've seen Ezio lose his family.

Why can't we see an Assassin lose his Creed?

Perk89
12-03-2014, 05:04 PM
For example, I think it'll be interesting to watch an established Assassin struggle as their order falls apart


lol again? We've seen that enough

ChiberianWinter
12-03-2014, 05:11 PM
When have we seen that though? I think at the end of every single game, except Rogue, the Assassin Order is left in a pretty darn good spot due to the actions of the protagonist