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View Full Version : My thought is, Unity is going backwards... Very sad...



Terrence_Lee
11-27-2014, 08:41 AM
I completed the game at 99%, almost done everything, and here are some thoughts that explain why I think Unity is going backwards. Others may not agree with me but just some thoughts. Here goes,

1. Frame rate, 30fps. Frame rate is not really a big deal, only when your game runs smoothly. Unity lag the hell out of me when I am climbing or fighting. I may understand that they put frame rate down because of the density of the map. So the game looks pretty, but laggy and froze sometime. That just defeat the whole purpose of making, not good ones, but simple game.

2. Control style, those who played AC since Ezio's time wouldn't be surprise. The climbing and fighting mechanics are back to AC2, brotherhood era. Hold X/A to climb, no more 1 button counter and kill streak. Actually it's fun and challenging, the fact is I think they made it too easy to fight than run since AC3. But this time the enemies' AIs are, maybe too good. In combat, they will attack you at the same time and you can only parry 1. You move extremely slow in combat, but not the enemies, when you parrying, 2 or 3 people shooting at you at the same time, kill me instantly in several occasions. Any enemy can shoot and with very, very good aim. Gun shot deal a lot of damages, unless you have best armor and thick skin skills. So at the beginning of the game you constantly getting slaughtered. You may say you can run, when you run, they always shoot. I die many times just tried to run away and they can shoot you across half a street.

Also, in combat, the camera placed too close to Arno, most of the time you can only see yourself and the one you are fighting, may be 1 or 2 guys more at most. I can say I always die in combat, not because I suck in fighting and parry, but most of the time can't see enemies ready to attack you outside the camera so I can parry, also shooting. You would find yourself constantly turning the camera in fighting just to see anybody ready to attack you. Also enemies' attacks have wide range. They can be ready to strike you so outside the camera and they can still hit you. I wanna say something here, I always think that when developers saying they put player in such disadvantage on purpose to enlarge the challenge and fun, I would not agree, I think it's an excuse that they made bad decisions.

3. Some very fundamental elements are missing, or cut out from the game. For example, whistling, moving bodies, pickpocket, human shield, hidden blade combat etc. In some occasions you are required to stealth kill, but without whistling, make stealth kill much much harder and more constraint. You have to be in particular time, at particular place to do it. Remember what they said before releasing the game, they gave us more freedom and choice to choose our tactics to do missions. In fact it's isn't. I remembered there was a mission at beginning, challenge is kill in hiding spot (hay cart) in a church. But only 1 enemy you are suppose to kill in this fashion, and there is only 1 chance he would walk past the hay, close enough for you to kill them, only if you are in the hay already. If you miss that chance, you have no other opportunity but to reload checkpoint. Same problem goes to cover kills. I mean is it everytime you need a freaking cherry bomb to lure somebody?

Human Shield is another big thing that missed, since in this game every enemy shoots, with good aim and serious damages., human shield is absolutely necessary in combat, especially with combat system like this. You may say, we didn't have human shield back in Ezio time but still fine. Well I can tell you because at that time enemies don't use guns. Even later they did have guns in revelations, they don't have eagle eye and they don't fight and shoot at the same time together, especially when you are running away. Let me ask you something, how many time you got shot in unity, than you can actually dodge the bullet or they missed? You can roll, but but people with sword are stabbing you at the same time. It's just too frustrating, you can't fight (unless you have best weapon and armor, to endure the fight long enough), and you can't run.

And they took away hidden blade combat, that's just unforgivable.

4. Bugs and glitches. Every game have bugs and glitches, but unity is exceeding with flying colors. We are talking about a launched game here guys, crashes, falling out of map, accessories sync malfunctions (initiates and companion). Even their selling point, co op they couldn't get it right. It is all buggy and broken, objectives don't pop up. Whenever people join in or leave in the middle of a game, almost guarantee broken. Now with patch 3 I still encounter these issues sometimes. This is inexcusable, not for a launched title anyway. I mean, 3GB of updating patch? Can't imagine how many things to be fixed, and it is still coming. AC3 ready buggy as hell when launched, but unity even worse.

Delay a game is fine, players can wait, but as soon as it launches, we expected the game at least 90-95% works, and Unity's not even close. Players prefer wait a little longer to have a better running game, than rush to release, but a broken game. That kills our trust upon you ubisoft.

Again guys, you may disagree what I said here, but I own and played every AC game and so far, Unity is the most disappointing in my list, because I have my expectations on, not a new game, but just the AC franchise. I can say, unity almost killed 1/4 of the franchise.

Ubisoft, I really love the AC franchise, I will continue to support it, but please, live up to the expectations on the next 1.

Chook1980
11-27-2014, 12:44 PM
On point 2 and i can't stress this enough SMOKE BOMBS are your best friend

Johnthegamer321
11-27-2014, 12:47 PM
Interesting points there. I'm planning on getting this game for my Christmas present so hope I enjoy it, after everything you wrote here I'm kinda starting to thing negative about my present :(/

stobbsy1
11-27-2014, 01:21 PM
On the most part, I have to totally agree with the points raised by the OP.

I cannot stress enough, how much I want to zoom out my camera during combat when fighting multiple foes. The intention I presume was to make combat harder? but people just resort to throwing smoke bombs and just hacking people to death. In my opinion this does not make combat more interesting or harder.

Regarding the Human shield, I also have to agree also, and the only way to nullify them is again to use smoke bombs, would me nice to be able to grab a person in melee range and use them as a shield. There are so many people with pistols and rifles, it is impossible to do combat without smoke bombs.

Regarding Stealth, I would of liked the whistle function or something similar. The Bombs used to distract people, don't work very well for me, as it is hard to gauge whether the guards are in ear shot or not. Often I waste bombs trying to get guards to investigate. I used to like playing stealthily, however now, I tend to just find myself charging in with swords blazing. I would of also liked to be able to go up and down steps/ledges in "stealth mode". Nothing more frustrating, landing on a window ledge, swapping to stealth mode and then having to go to normal mode to get down the window ledge to then go back into stealth mode to creep up behind someone.


Also miss the ability to hidden blade kill someone when you knock them down to the ground. What I mean is you jump on them, or just knock them over, when they are in fightmode, you have to wait for them to get up before hitting them with sword. I would of been nice to kill them like previous games with hidden blade whilst on floor and not wait for them to get up.

I do like the new stealth mode, and Phamtom blade, but I think it could do with improvement. I also like the huge crowds. I also like the rpg levelling style and the new gear and equipment setup. In the last 2 games, gear selection was rubbish, and I think it is an improvement. The access to interior of buildings was a big plus for me and much needed in the series. Looking for correct access to a target to a mission inside a building was a big plus for me. The lockpickable doors also made this better also.

I would of liked more assassination missions and stealth need missions and online missions. The new dynamic missions could do with improving. For improvement look at the Hitman 2 game, where you have the same scenario, but have dynamically like 5-10 ways to kill a target, instead of 1.

To improve online play and longevity, I would of possibly like or maybe in future games, some sort of editor, to create and share missions. To be able to create your own assassination missions, but targets where you want and guards where you want would be good. Being able to play those missions with friends also would be good.

I would like to see further adventures of Arno, maybe to do with the Battle of Trafalger or/and Napoleonic wars.

Shahkulu101
11-27-2014, 02:23 PM
I'd hardly call revamping the core pillars for the first time in forever backwards. Everyone would see the series return backwards to the era of the Ezio trilogy, where the combat was brain dead, the stealth barebones and the story writing absurdly cliche. Unity has gameplay issues, but it IS innovative. You list valid issues - some of which I agree with - but backwards is totally the wrong word. Wanting the same mechanics to return time and time again and berating any changes the new games make just screams to ubi that you don't want the series to move forward. "Just keep the same mechanics and reskin them, like Rogue. They're the games we like!"

I have a feeling they'll ditch Unity's progress now. We'll move backwards from here on out, the attempt to create a true assassins creed game will be forgotten. We will return to naval based gameplay for every game (not that I minded it a couple of times), the mechanics dumbed down once again so people can feel 'badazz' and the series will just stop trying to capitalize on it's potential altogether. I sound like an extremist here - almost like HMS - but the fact Unity is hated so much (for reasons apart from bugs) by reviewers and fans just makes no sense to me. It has the best if everything so far, and amazing assassination missions. The game isn't a power fantasy simulator but an Assassin's Creed game dedicated to the design philosophies that are crucial to the series. But people are more interested in Pirate games, or historical GTA's like the Ezio trilogy. Fine, but those are NOT good AC games and y'all know it.

LegendzX
11-27-2014, 02:27 PM
I'm a big fan of the 'extra' features that many of the AC titles have - the unique ways in which you can interact with your environment and NPCs have always been fun, and this side of things definitely should not be compromised. :)

Terrence_Lee
11-27-2014, 02:28 PM
I forgot to mention the stealth mechanic. Yes, they really made stealth mode, but the cover system is weird, you can compare to the cover system of watch dogs, they have 1 of the best cover system I have ever played

Terrence_Lee
11-27-2014, 02:37 PM
Thanks for your opinion my friend. for the record, I love the combat style of unity, just the camera angle and too overwhelming stronge ai's wipe the fun out, because u can hardly defend ur self without seeing enemies attacking outside the camera. I never said I hate unity, I like every ac game, I am just saying unity is the most disappointing in my list.
I'd hardly call revamping the core pillars for the first time in forever backwards. Everyone would see the series return backwards to the era of the Ezio trilogy, where the combat was brain dead, the stealth barebones and the story writing absurdly cliche. Unity has gameplay issues, but it IS innovative. You list valid issues - some of which I agree with - but backwards is totally the wrong word. Wanting the same mechanics to return time and time again and berating any changes the new games make just screams to ubi that you don't want the series to move forward. "Just keep the same mechanics and reskin them, like Rogue. They're the games we like!"

I have a feeling they'll ditch Unity's progress now. We'll move backwards from here on out, the attempt to create a true assassins creed game will be forgotten. We will return to naval based gameplay for every game (not that I minded it a couple of times), the mechanics dumbed down once again so people can feel 'badazz' and the series will just stop trying to capitalize on it's potential altogether. I sound like an extremist here - almost like HMS - but the fact Unity is hated so much (for reasons apart from bugs) by reviewers and fans just makes no sense to me. It has the best if everything so far, and amazing assassination missions. The game isn't a power fantasy simulator but an Assassin's Creed game dedicated to the design philosophies that are crucial to the series. But people are more interested in Pirate games, or historical GTA's like the Ezio trilogy. Fine, but those are NOT good AC games and y'all know it.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-27-2014, 02:49 PM
Everyone would see the series return backwards to the era of the Ezio trilogy, where the combat was brain dead, the stealth barebones and the story writing absurdly cliche...

LOL. So I suppose you'd argue that Unity's story is not absurdly cliche, combat is exciting and that this game has a useful stealth system? Seriously?

At least the games that featured Ezio took more than a few short hours to complete, and at least you got a sense that the stories were actually taking you somewhere interesting. Nothing happens in Unity. I mean, NOTHING.

As for stealth, it's broken in Unity. It's impossible to do missions 100% stealthily, because guards' responses to Arno are arbitrary - sometimes they'll virtually ignore him, while sometimes they attack on first sighting him. And the cover mechanics don't work.

As for combat, they took away counter-kills, which were actually the most realistic part of swordfighting. Now we have a system that is based purely on stage combat. If anything it's less interesting because there's no ability to string together kills and there are fewer variations in finishing moves.

Megas_Doux
11-27-2014, 03:21 PM
Gameplay wise, comments like the ones above are proving that the average AC fan does not want ANYTHING to do with challenge whatsoever, not even to a minimum extent. What they really though, is the return of the days in which you carried 598509843098 weapons and 8759438750938509 units of ammo. A "definitive" armour that made you literally invincible, a combat system that allowed you to obliterate the hell out hundreds of guards like it was nothing, dumb guards that NEVER detect you etc etc etc etc.

Henge1759
11-27-2014, 04:10 PM
I'm not picking sides, I have Unity, but have been playing Rogue first, before I start Unity. I believe in making the combat harder, but It's not unrealistic to believe a trained assassin knows how to kill someone in combat with a single counter!!

RzaRecta357
11-27-2014, 04:36 PM
Ugh, I haven't finished the story since I'm taking it slow but plenty has happened. People don't like character centric stories? I feel like because you were beheading kings and totally fighting in the revolution everyone is upset. Give me a break. So far by Sequence 8 quite a bit has happened to Arno personally and the Assassin's AND Templars. But because they aren't twisting their mustaches and beheading people it's a big deal. Yawn.

Whistling and hidden blade combat and a loading screen are missing basically. The free running is so much more improved it's bananas. Once you know what you're doing it makes the last games all seem like a joke. Stabbing while down? He uses the hidden blade on knocked out enemies and you can buy a skill for a special downed kill with your weapon type.

RinoTheBouncer
11-27-2014, 04:36 PM
I'm not picking sides, I have Unity, but have been playing Rogue first, before I start Unity. I believe in making the combat harder, but It's not unrealistic to believe a trained assassin knows how to kill someone in combat with a single counter!!

I totally agree about this. Same goes for taking away the Human Shield ability, Whistling and using the Hidden Blade as in independent weapon, not to mention how you HAVE TO use the Hidden Blade even if you practically killed your target with another weapon. It would’ve been realistic if you’re only allowed to use the Hidden Blade to do the Assassination as a whole to promote stealth, but what’s the point in stabbing my target after impaling them with my spear or sword?

And I guess any fighter would take advantage of a downed target to finish them off, but no, here we’re required to wait till they get up to kill them. Those issues really did bother me cause they’re like pure game mechanics aimed to make the game hard rather than make it realistic because it isn’t unrealistic to perform a counter kill, kill someone while they’re down, take shield behind an enemy or kill a target with any weapon as long as you’ve already been detected.

RzaRecta357
11-27-2014, 04:41 PM
Ahh human shield would be great also. As it is now you just have to be attentive and watch the little red bars for crosshair symbols. Not as impossible as some people complaining about camera say.

guest-0VWo3kY1
11-27-2014, 05:16 PM
I'm not picking sides, I have Unity, but have been playing Rogue first, before I start Unity. I believe in making the combat harder, but It's not unrealistic to believe a trained assassin knows how to kill someone in combat with a single counter!!

It's also unrealistic to believe a single trained assassin can take on groups of also trained guards. Assassins aren't warriors, they're spies and secret killers. That's like if a mass murderer could wipe an entire police force. They couldn't. The harder combat and AI is perfect, except for the fact it's buggy and flawed in detecting you.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-27-2014, 05:23 PM
It's also unrealistic to believe a single trained assassin can take on groups of also trained guards.

French line infantrymen were not trained in commando close combat techniques. They were trained to load and fire (unaimed) muskets and to bayonet sacks of straw. Sans-Culotte radicals (the "red" guys) were just thugs and were not trained, period.

See "With Musket, Cannon And Sword: Battle Tactics Of Napoleon And His Enemies". (http://www.amazon.com/Musket-Cannon-Sword-Tactics-Napoleon/dp/1885119275/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1417105498&sr=8-3&keywords=battle+tactics+of+the+napoleonic+wars)

So I have no doubt that a trained assassin would be able to cut through these guys like butter.

Shahkulu101
11-27-2014, 05:43 PM
LOL. So I suppose you'd argue that Unity's story is not absurdly cliche, combat is exciting and that this game has a useful stealth system? Seriously?

At least the games that featured Ezio took more than a few short hours to complete, and at least you got a sense that the stories were actually taking you somewhere interesting. Nothing happens in Unity. I mean, NOTHING.

As for stealth, it's broken in Unity. It's impossible to do missions 100% stealthily, because guards' responses to Arno are arbitrary - sometimes they'll virtually ignore him, while sometimes they attack on first sighting him. And the cover mechanics don't work.

As for combat, they took away counter-kills, which were actually the most realistic part of swordfighting. Now we have a system that is based purely on stage combat. If anything it's less interesting because there's no ability to string together kills and there are fewer variations in finishing moves.

It's not as cliche, but yes it does lack in originality. But there's at least an ounce of maturity to the dialogue; no cheesy "I meant besides ******'s" or ridiculously OTT "The Auditore are not dead" nonsense. People that complain about ACU lacking a good plot and proceed to hold a candle up to AC2 and Ezio as if they are the epitome of storytelling don't have much credibility in my eyes . At least in Unity everything isn't spoon-fed and you actually have piece some things together during flashback sequences and there's an element of interpretation. AC2 just held you're hand from one place to the next, even the gameplay is horribly linear. Unity expects something of the player, both in narrative and gameplay. However, it seems the average AC player doesn't like bejng expected to figure out things for themselves.

Combat isn't exciting, but it serves it's purpose. And counter kills weren't realistic as you could do them over and over again - repeated insta kills is far, far removed from reality. Combat was only ever supposed to be your last resort, Assassin's can't be one man armies or else the entire stealth element loses it's purpose. As for stealth, yes it's inconsistent but the other games weren't? Unity at least plays like a stealth game, it's tense and requires thoroughly surveying your surroundings and counting your resources - you're always on your toes whereas in say, ACB - spam the crossbow and bobs you're uncle. It can be frustrating as I outlined in one of my threads, but I've got used to the cover system and have gained more knowledge of what techniques do and don't get me detected. I've learned through failure - it actually plays like a ****ing video game! Hallelujah!

Xstantin
11-27-2014, 05:57 PM
As for stealth, yes it's inconsistent but the other games weren't? Unity at least plays like a stealth game, it's tense and requires thoroughly surveying your surroundings and counting your resources - you're always on your toes whereas in say, ACB - spam the crossbow and bobs you're uncle. It can be frustrating as I outlined in one of my threads, but I've got used to the cover system and have gained more knowledge of what techniques do and don't get me detected. I've learned through failure - it actually plays like a ****ing video game! Hallelujah!

Cover kills and LKP work pretty well for me in most cases, just sometimes it takes a bit longer - but stealth got a lot more exciting imo - if you actually go ahead and take care of all the watchers/snipers the game gets easier. Also in a lot of cases for missions there's a straight "easy" route which just needs to be figured out as jumping into haystack from the starting point is not the best idea now.

Ringotaker
11-27-2014, 07:04 PM
It's not as cliche, but yes it does lack in originality. But there's at least an ounce of maturity to the dialogue; no cheesy "I meant besides ******'s" or ridiculously OTT "The Auditore are not dead" nonsense. People that complain about ACU lacking a good plot and proceed to hold a candle up to AC2 and Ezio as if they are the epitome of storytelling don't have much credibility in my eyes . At least in Unity everything isn't spoon-fed and you actually have piece some things together during flashback sequences and there's an element of interpretation. AC2 just held you're hand from one place to the next, even the gameplay is horribly linear. Unity expects something of the player, both in narrative and gameplay. However, it seems the average AC player doesn't like bejng expected to figure out things for themselves.

Combat isn't exciting, but it serves it's purpose. And counter kills weren't realistic as you could do them over and over again - repeated insta kills is far, far removed from reality. Combat was only ever supposed to be your last resort, Assassin's can't be one man armies or else the entire stealth element loses it's purpose. As for stealth, yes it's inconsistent but the other games weren't? Unity at least plays like a stealth game, it's tense and requires thoroughly surveying your surroundings and counting your resources - you're always on your toes whereas in say, ACB - spam the crossbow and bobs you're uncle. It can be frustrating as I outlined in one of my threads, but I've got used to the cover system and have gained more knowledge of what techniques do and don't get me detected. I've learned through failure - it actually plays like a ****ing video game! Hallelujah!


I couldn't agree more with you

Mr.Blackkatt
11-27-2014, 07:53 PM
I completed the game at 99%, almost done everything, and here are some thoughts that explain why I think Unity is going backwards. Others may not agree with me but just some thoughts. Here goes,

1. Frame rate, 30fps. Frame rate is not really a big deal, only when your game runs smoothly. Unity lag the hell out of me when I am climbing or fighting. I may understand that they put frame rate down because of the density of the map. So the game looks pretty, but laggy and froze sometime. That just defeat the whole purpose of making, not good ones, but simple game.

2. Control style, those who played AC since Ezio's time wouldn't be surprise. The climbing and fighting mechanics are back to AC2, brotherhood era. Hold X/A to climb, no more 1 button counter and kill streak. Actually it's fun and challenging, the fact is I think they made it too easy to fight than run since AC3. But this time the enemies' AIs are, maybe too good. In combat, they will attack you at the same time and you can only parry 1. You move extremely slow in combat, but not the enemies, when you parrying, 2 or 3 people shooting at you at the same time, kill me instantly in several occasions. Any enemy can shoot and with very, very good aim. Gun shot deal a lot of damages, unless you have best armor and thick skin skills. So at the beginning of the game you constantly getting slaughtered. You may say you can run, when you run, they always shoot. I die many times just tried to run away and they can shoot you across half a street.

Also, in combat, the camera placed too close to Arno, most of the time you can only see yourself and the one you are fighting, may be 1 or 2 guys more at most. I can say I always die in combat, not because I suck in fighting and parry, but most of the time can't see enemies ready to attack you outside the camera so I can parry, also shooting. You would find yourself constantly turning the camera in fighting just to see anybody ready to attack you. Also enemies' attacks have wide range. They can be ready to strike you so outside the camera and they can still hit you. I wanna say something here, I always think that when developers saying they put player in such disadvantage on purpose to enlarge the challenge and fun, I would not agree, I think it's an excuse that they made bad decisions.

3. Some very fundamental elements are missing, or cut out from the game. For example, whistling, moving bodies, pickpocket, human shield, hidden blade combat etc. In some occasions you are required to stealth kill, but without whistling, make stealth kill much much harder and more constraint. You have to be in particular time, at particular place to do it. Remember what they said before releasing the game, they gave us more freedom and choice to choose our tactics to do missions. In fact it's isn't. I remembered there was a mission at beginning, challenge is kill in hiding spot (hay cart) in a church. But only 1 enemy you are suppose to kill in this fashion, and there is only 1 chance he would walk past the hay, close enough for you to kill them, only if you are in the hay already. If you miss that chance, you have no other opportunity but to reload checkpoint. Same problem goes to cover kills. I mean is it everytime you need a freaking cherry bomb to lure somebody?

Human Shield is another big thing that missed, since in this game every enemy shoots, with good aim and serious damages., human shield is absolutely necessary in combat, especially with combat system like this. You may say, we didn't have human shield back in Ezio time but still fine. Well I can tell you because at that time enemies don't use guns. Even later they did have guns in revelations, they don't have eagle eye and they don't fight and shoot at the same time together, especially when you are running away. Let me ask you something, how many time you got shot in unity, than you can actually dodge the bullet or they missed? You can roll, but but people with sword are stabbing you at the same time. It's just too frustrating, you can't fight (unless you have best weapon and armor, to endure the fight long enough), and you can't run.

And they took away hidden blade combat, that's just unforgivable.

4. Bugs and glitches. Every game have bugs and glitches, but unity is exceeding with flying colors. We are talking about a launched game here guys, crashes, falling out of map, accessories sync malfunctions (initiates and companion). Even their selling point, co op they couldn't get it right. It is all buggy and broken, objectives don't pop up. Whenever people join in or leave in the middle of a game, almost guarantee broken. Now with patch 3 I still encounter these issues sometimes. This is inexcusable, not for a launched title anyway. I mean, 3GB of updating patch? Can't imagine how many things to be fixed, and it is still coming. AC3 ready buggy as hell when launched, but unity even worse.

Delay a game is fine, players can wait, but as soon as it launches, we expected the game at least 90-95% works, and Unity's not even close. Players prefer wait a little longer to have a better running game, than rush to release, but a broken game. That kills our trust upon you ubisoft.

Again guys, you may disagree what I said here, but I own and played every AC game and so far, Unity is the most disappointing in my list, because I have my expectations on, not a new game, but just the AC franchise. I can say, unity almost killed 1/4 of the franchise.

Ubisoft, I really love the AC franchise, I will continue to support it, but please, live up to the expectations on the next 1.

Absolutely agree, sad due, now when you told me that all the old good stuff are missing, I dont see why I would even want to finish the game. Just took down the "Rat dude" he kept saying "I see you and what not" thing is, i was behind him, he could not see me...the standard audio loops i guess =( all AI seems so much more stupid then the other games. Over all quality seems worse, so yeah again totally agree with you. Oh well, I'll think twice about buying any game from Ubisoft again that's for sure.

rprkjj
11-27-2014, 08:39 PM
It's not as cliche, but yes it does lack in originality. But there's at least an ounce of maturity to the dialogue; no cheesy "I meant besides ******'s" or ridiculously OTT "The Auditore are not dead" nonsense. People that complain about ACU lacking a good plot and proceed to hold a candle up to AC2 and Ezio as if they are the epitome of storytelling don't have much credibility in my eyes . At least in Unity everything isn't spoon-fed and you actually have piece some things together during flashback sequences and there's an element of interpretation. AC2 just held you're hand from one place to the next, even the gameplay is horribly linear. Unity expects something of the player, both in narrative and gameplay. However, it seems the average AC player doesn't like bejng expected to figure out things for themselves.

Combat isn't exciting, but it serves it's purpose. And counter kills weren't realistic as you could do them over and over again - repeated insta kills is far, far removed from reality. Combat was only ever supposed to be your last resort, Assassin's can't be one man armies or else the entire stealth element loses it's purpose. As for stealth, yes it's inconsistent but the other games weren't? Unity at least plays like a stealth game, it's tense and requires thoroughly surveying your surroundings and counting your resources - you're always on your toes whereas in say, ACB - spam the crossbow and bobs you're uncle. It can be frustrating as I outlined in one of my threads, but I've got used to the cover system and have gained more knowledge of what techniques do and don't get me detected. I've learned through failure - it actually plays like a ****ing video game! Hallelujah!

Thank you. At no time did I feel cheated by Unity. It has a learning curve, but once you cross that barrier, the game plays excellently. There was a Cafe Theater mission where I was being wrecked trying to infiltrate a building and kill a target. I tried every conceivable angle at least once, each time I would be detected and forced to fight. I was getting 1 shotted by pistols. Rightly so, I knew I was messing up, and I had to take a moment to consider every factor. Boom, killed him. I had to be patient with the AI, and formulate my strategy to get in and out. Seriously, this game is glorious.

Megas_Doux
11-27-2014, 09:10 PM
I have learnt the avarege AC fan does not want ANYTHING to do with challenge whatsoever, not even to a minimum extent. What they really want though, is the return of the days in which you carried 598509843098 weapons and 8759438750938509 units of ammo. A "definitive" armour that made you literally invincible, a combat system that allowed you to obliterate the hell out hundreds of guards like it was nothing, dumb guards that NEVER detect you etc etc etc etc.

I like it the way it was done in Unity, but Im also afraid after the outrage the 5 years old difficulty will be back.

Xstantin
11-27-2014, 09:16 PM
I like it the way it was done in Unity, but Im also afraid after the outrage the 5 years old difficulty will be back.

The point is you still can carry loads of ammo and overpower Arno by getting the right gear + iron skin + staggering strike/phantom shot

lukazdragon
11-27-2014, 09:24 PM
It's not as cliche, but yes it does lack in originality. But there's at least an ounce of maturity to the dialogue; no cheesy "I meant besides ******'s" or ridiculously OTT "The Auditore are not dead" nonsense. People that complain about ACU lacking a good plot and proceed to hold a candle up to AC2 and Ezio as if they are the epitome of storytelling don't have much credibility in my eyes . At least in Unity everything isn't spoon-fed and you actually have piece some things together during flashback sequences and there's an element of interpretation. AC2 just held you're hand from one place to the next, even the gameplay is horribly linear. Unity expects something of the player, both in narrative and gameplay. However, it seems the average AC player doesn't like bejng expected to figure out things for themselves.

Combat isn't exciting, but it serves it's purpose. And counter kills weren't realistic as you could do them over and over again - repeated insta kills is far, far removed from reality. Combat was only ever supposed to be your last resort, Assassin's can't be one man armies or else the entire stealth element loses it's purpose. As for stealth, yes it's inconsistent but the other games weren't? Unity at least plays like a stealth game, it's tense and requires thoroughly surveying your surroundings and counting your resources - you're always on your toes whereas in say, ACB - spam the crossbow and bobs you're uncle. It can be frustrating as I outlined in one of my threads, but I've got used to the cover system and have gained more knowledge of what techniques do and don't get me detected. I've learned through failure - it actually plays like a ****ing video game! Hallelujah!

I agree with most points, but... What's wrong about that "The auditore are not dead" line of dialogue you mentioned?

Shahkulu101
11-28-2014, 12:08 AM
I agree with most points, but... What's wrong about that "The auditore are not dead" line of dialogue you mentioned?

Eh, not too much in all honestly. Good have used a better example (there is an abundance of cheesy dialogue to choose from) but I just thought the way he screamed it in public was a bit excessive and hard to take seriously. I dunno...do you picture a scene like that when thinking of mature storytelling? Not that Unity is amazing in terms of storytelling either, but it spears us a fair few cringey moments save for the dialogue with Elise.

SixKeys
11-28-2014, 12:38 AM
That "the Auditore are not dead" line itself wasn't bad - Ezio was young and stupid at the time - but the aftermath (or rather, the lack of it) was the ridiculous part. Ezio literally told everyone in attendance exactly who the hooded killer in white was. He told all of Florence his name after a highly public assassination of a respected judge.

And then, everyone just forgot. Ezio returned to Florence many times after that, made friends with Lorenzo de Medici, even wore his cape to signal to guards that "HEY, THIS GUY RIGHT HERE, YES, ME, EZIO AUDITORE, THE KILLER IN THE WHITE HOOD, I HAVE LORENZO'S BLESSING TO COMMIT CRIMES AND GET AWAY WITH IT, SO SUCK IT". Seems legit.

lukazdragon
11-28-2014, 12:38 AM
Eh, not too much in all honestly. Good have used a better example (there is an abundance of cheesy dialogue to choose from) but I just thought the way he screamed it in public was a bit excessive and hard to take seriously. I dunno...do you picture a scene like that when thinking of mature storytelling? Not that Unity is amazing in terms of storytelling either, but it spears us a fair few cringey moments save for the dialogue with Elise.

Hm, I would say that AC II has a "lack" of mature dialogues, and not an excess of immature ones. It looks like the same thing, but if you get what's behind it, you get why it's a different problem.

How can I explain... I think that scene is very believable actually... You see, at that time, Ezio is an extremely immature, even a playboy, iI may say. he knows nothing about the world, about how things work, about controlling himself. At that time, he just killed a man responsible for his loved one's death, he's a young man, and his heart was on fire at that second. I think he just saw in that a hope of making ammends, a light to which he looked at and made him realize that things weren't over yet, despite the loss he suffered, despite the damage done to his mother. He just left those feelings get out, he wanted the world and the templars to know the loose end they left and that was coming for them. Of course, it was just a shout, that only the citizens heard, but as I said, he was a young boy and did what someone like him would do at that level of maturity. I can't see Revelations and Brotherhood Ezio doing the same, for example, because he learned and evolved, becoming a wise and responsible man (Even at the end of ACII he's a different person, in Revelations, he's almost an opposite one.), which is what his entire character is built into: an alienated, troublemaker, unaware boy who sinks into this world of assassins and templars for revenge, but, turned by the years and people he meets, learns wisdom and how there's so much more to life than what he knew when eveything began. I also disliked Ezio at the beggining of ACII, but at the end of it, I understood what was happening there, and the way he allowed Rodrigo to live is the signal of his growth. So, well, I thought that scene when he was younger was actually very poetic and pleasant.

Even that line of his mother is understandable. I mean, she's a mother having a casual conversation with her son, she's not thinking into making an adult debate to be listened by us, gamers. She did something natural, considering their relationship and character.

AC II's problem isn't these moments, but the lack of more thoughtful dialogues to balance the softer ones. I personally liked conversations with Machiavel. Thing is, there should be more of them. If done with more mature lines to change the balance, as you said, it would be a better story.

Shahkulu101
11-28-2014, 12:48 AM
Hm, I would say that AC II has a "lack" of mature dialogues, and not an excess of immature ones. It looks like the same thing, but if you get what's behind it, you get why it's a different problem.

How can I explain... I think that scene is very believable actually... You see, at that time, Ezio is an extremely immature, even a playboy, iI may say. he knows nothing about the world, about how things work, about controlling himself. At that time, he just killed a man responsible for his loved one's death, he's a young man, and his heart was on fire at that second. I think he just saw in that a hope of making ammends, a light to which he looked at and made him realize that things weren't over yet, despite the loss he suffered, despite the damage done to his mother. He just left those feelings get out, he wanted the world and the templars to know the loose end they left and that was coming for them. Of course, it was just a shout, that only the citizens heard, but as I said, he was a young boy and did what someone like him would do at that level of maturity. I can't see Revelations and Brotherhood Ezio doing the same, for example, because he learned and evolved, becoming a wise and responsible man (Even at the end of ACII he's a different person, in Revelations, he's almost an opposite one.), which is what his entire character is built into: an alienated, troublemaker, unaware boy who sinks into this world of assassins and templars for revenge, but, turned by the years and people he meets, learns wisdom and how there's so much more to life than what he knew when eveything began. I also disliked Ezio at the beggining of ACII, but at the end of it, I understood what was happening there, and the way he allowed Rodrigo to live is the signal of his growth. So, well, I thought that scene when he was younger was actually very poetic and pleasant.

Even that line of his mother is understandable. I mean, she's a mother having a casual conversation with her son, she's not thinking into making an adult debate to be listened by us, gamers. She did something natural, considering their relationship and character.

AC II's problem isn't these moments, but the lack of more thoughtful dialogues to balance the softer ones. I personally liked conversations with Machiavel. Thing is, there should be more of them. If done with more mature lines to change the balance, as you said, it would be a better story.

Good points, especially about the infamous line with his mother. That's just me being boring haha.

There are these simple moments that put a smile on your face and make you really like Ezio. I don't mind the fact the character interactions aren't complex, infact that makes him a little more relatable as a human (but his Casanova attitude does not). Like you said though, it lacked any real depth to go with it. We were never meant to question Ezio, just enjoy the power fantasy. Unity is quite simple in it's plot, but by no means is it lacking ambiguity for instance. You could easily say Arno and the Assassin's aren't doing what's right, the game took the brave decision to take a more balanced stance on the revolution rather than a gung-ho 'save the people!' approach. It does get you thinking a little.

lukazdragon
11-28-2014, 01:10 AM
Good points, especially about the infamous line with his mother. That's just me being boring haha.

There are these simple moments that put a smile on your face and make you really like Ezio. I don't mind the fact the character interactions aren't complex, infact that makes him a little more relatable as a human (but his Casanova attitude does not). Like you said though, it lacked any real depth to go with it. We were never meant to question Ezio, just enjoy the power fantasy. Unity is quite simple in it's plot, but by no means is it lacking ambiguity for instance. You could easily say Arno and the Assassin's aren't doing what's right, the game took the brave decision to take a more balanced stance on the revolution rather than a gung-ho 'save the people!' approach. It does get you thinking a little.

Agreed. ^^

We never get, as you said, to question Ezio. We only get to, by Brotherhood or Revelations, understand "Oh, ****, he was being an inconsequent boy before turning into this actually respectful character."

And, of course, there are those who like and worship Ezio BECAUSE of that inconsequent and "funny" boy, and not because of the character growth and the later ezio. But let's not enter on that matter XD

I'm actually interested in Unity's storyline. I'm a fan of romance, and I've read that the game's plot is centered around one, so it has everything to be a special plot amongst the others, like Rogue's and AC3's was...

Terrence_Lee
11-28-2014, 07:44 AM
A challenge is that players are in a disadvantage position, but still have a fighting chance if you have skills, that's challenge. Tell me, how is it challenging, if you get shot, 3 times in a combat and die instantly, almost at the same time, by guys standing right in front of you or behind you, but just out of the camera's range? How is it challenging? Or what skills do you have to resolve it? Knowing you may get shot any minute, by whoever you can't see from any directions? Or just lose half or more than half health just to run away? How is it challenging? You call 'sometime you can do nothing about' challenging? Well, you can't zoom in or out the camera, u can't control how good aim enemies are, you can't control if they shoot and stab you at the same time. Or you mean whenever u see someone pointing gun at you, you have to roll and roll and roll, until they shoot or you reach them? But don't forget, when you roll, closer enemies can still stab you.
I have learnt the avarege AC fan does not want ANYTHING to do with challenge whatsoever, not even to a minimum extent. What they really want though, is the return of the days in which you carried 598509843098 weapons and 8759438750938509 units of ammo. A "definitive" armour that made you literally invincible, a combat system that allowed you to obliterate the hell out hundreds of guards like it was nothing, dumb guards that NEVER detect you etc etc etc etc.

I like it the way it was done in Unity, but Im also afraid after the outrage the 5 years old difficulty will be back.

Terrence_Lee
11-28-2014, 07:51 AM
I can successfully parry anyone's attack, no problem, as long as I can SEE them ready to attack, within my camera range. I mean, that's what parry means right? u see someone about to attack and u push the button. But unfortunately, about half of them come from outside the camera's reach.

Try fighting inside a building, and then you'll see what i mean

Im2aKillerfish
11-28-2014, 08:03 AM
I can successfully parry anyone's attack, no problem, as long as I can SEE them ready to attack, within my camera range. I mean, that's what parry means right? u see someone about to attack and u push the button. But unfortunately, about half of them come from outside the camera's reach.

Try fighting inside a building, and then you'll see what i mean

If your'e fighting with multiple enemies in a small area, smoke bombs are your best bet. you can beat up the guys and/or aim your camera to other enemies. And if everything else fails, spam the quickfire button. Interiors are the worst place to fight enemies, I've noticed it myself.

If you cant see them, make sure they can't see you.

Xtreme_Stark
11-28-2014, 08:35 AM
All I have to say is that it's a new and HUGE game with tons of new features, so it would be hard to release it w/o much bugs. Can't expect all bugs to be fixed within the first couple weeks. Give it time; it's bound to be one of the best installments. Overall, the game is really fun and pretty great, it's FINALLY challenging... something that was missing from the past installments. I hope they don't go back to the "easy combat". This is actually pretty darn fun. I would love the return of meatshield though and not to mention that riles and pistols have the same range which is pretty weird; pistols should have less range than rifles... I really wish they would fix that. Anyway, I love the game. I just don't understand why there is SO much haters though.

DukToonz
11-28-2014, 11:23 PM
It's strange. My general impression of Black Flag was something like, "It's great, but it isn't Assassin's Creed."

I feel like Unity steps back toward the roots of the series in many ways, but I quickly found myself not liking it. As the series evolved, my feelings toward the gameplay mechanics evolved. AC1 had some really exhaustive combat, a dull story and monotonous side-quests. AC2, ACB and ACR improved over AC1 in every possible way. The ability to counter kill quickly became one of my favorite additions. Not because it made the game easier (which arguably it did), but because it made the game f-u-n. I could sit down and play for an hour or two and feel like I actually achieved a little something ...while having a good time doing it. AC3 made counter killing even easier with obvious visual cues but chaining kept it fresh. Now in ACU we're back to the ACB era, and I guess I just don't want to play like that anymore.

I too miss Whistling from a haystack or around a corner. I mean please, do I really need to drop a cherry bomb every time I want to get a dude's attention. Stupid, no really. And smoke bombing is way overdone. It's about the only way to survive in the early going and can quickly become a crutch as the game wears on. The removal of the Human Shield ability is just odd to me. It's almost like they wanted to feature the smoke bomb over everything else.

I also miss the Jackdaw. That companion app is a hot mess. Assassin's Creed is supposed to be an immersive game. Nothing like making me run over to my iPad every hour or so to kill that. I like commanding my fleet or brotherhood or companions within the game itself, and it was great being able to do that from the Jackdaw. Running to an App ... not fun at all. I get that they probably want to make a little extra cash from IAPs. Fine. But keep it in-game. Requiring us to run to an App or to ACInitiates to 100% the game is a total buzz kill.

And last, I miss Desmond and the modern day story arc. The conspiracy is lost now, or if it exists, just falls flat. In AC1-3, I felt like I was fighting for the greater good. From AC4 on, I felt like I was just a killing machine. Hunting bad guys for the fun of it not really knowing (or caring) why. No story, no fun.

I dunno. AC Unity, even without the bugs, is not a great game. It's barely a good game (for me at least). Too much has been removed from the evolving series to make it fun. If they ditched the app, brought back the mechanics and focused harder on the _story_ they might be able to salvage the series. As it is, it feels muddled and quite lost.