PDA

View Full Version : Selecting new memory, HELP me please!



Dutch60
04-24-2004, 02:22 AM
My selection for now is:

1. Corsair TWINX1024-400PRO XMS4000 2x512MB 3-4-4-8
2. Corsair TWINX1024-3200LLPRO XMS3200 2x512MB 2-3-2-6
3. Corsair TWINX2048-3200PRO XMS3200 2x1GB 3-3-3-8

Option 1 has a high MHZ but also a high latency.
Option 2 has a lower MHZ than one but the latency is way lower.
Option 3 gives me 2GB at the same MHZ as option 2 but than the latency is also higher.

Bering in mind that I will use this on a future system that also will have to be able to run BoB using an AMD64 FX-55 with probably PCI express holding a GeForce 6800 or a ATi X800-XT which do you think is the best choice?

http://home.planet.nl/~elzer033/images/dutch-p51.jpg
Fight Sims Forever

Dutch60
04-24-2004, 02:22 AM
My selection for now is:

1. Corsair TWINX1024-400PRO XMS4000 2x512MB 3-4-4-8
2. Corsair TWINX1024-3200LLPRO XMS3200 2x512MB 2-3-2-6
3. Corsair TWINX2048-3200PRO XMS3200 2x1GB 3-3-3-8

Option 1 has a high MHZ but also a high latency.
Option 2 has a lower MHZ than one but the latency is way lower.
Option 3 gives me 2GB at the same MHZ as option 2 but than the latency is also higher.

Bering in mind that I will use this on a future system that also will have to be able to run BoB using an AMD64 FX-55 with probably PCI express holding a GeForce 6800 or a ATi X800-XT which do you think is the best choice?

http://home.planet.nl/~elzer033/images/dutch-p51.jpg
Fight Sims Forever

clint-ruin
04-24-2004, 02:42 AM
I don't have experience with that particular motherboard, but I've got the 3200LL sticks in my machine right now. Just some general info, I'm not familiar enough with the FXs to comment intelligently on it.

Latency vs speed is a funny issue for a lot of motherboards these days. In particular the NForce 2 I'm running actually works better if latency is set higher than the recommended specs for these sticks at 200/400FSB+ in dual channel mode. There's some hugely involved discussions about why this occurs on the Nforce hardware sites, but basically the lower latency settings tend to 'slam the door shut' on reads before they can be completed. Someone more familiar with the FXs could probably comment better on it, but I believe that at least the Opterons were still shipping with single channel on-chip memory handling last I checked, so this may not be so much of an issue for you.

On almost every platform you will lose speed if you are running the memory out of step with the FSB. You need to increase memory>fsb ratios quite a bit before you make some of that loss back. Try to pick memory that will run at a sychronous speed with the motherboard/cpu you want to use, if possible. You will also find that in many cases the >3200 speed memory manufacturers are shipping are near identical physically to the 3200 parts, just with different recommended latency settings.

You might want to see if you can get Tsisqua talking about his shiny toys :>

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

Dutch60
04-24-2004, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
I don't have experience with that particular motherboard, but I've got the 3200LL sticks in my machine right now. Just some general info, I'm not familiar enough with the FXs to comment intelligently on it.

Latency vs speed is a funny issue for a lot of motherboards these days. In particular the NForce 2 I'm running actually works better if latency is set higher than the recommended specs for these sticks at 200/400FSB+ in dual channel mode. There's some hugely involved discussions about why this occurs on the Nforce hardware sites, but basically the lower latency settings tend to 'slam the door shut' on reads before they can be completed. Someone more familiar with the FXs could probably comment better on it, but I believe that at least the Opterons were still shipping with single channel on-chip memory handling last I checked, so this may not be so much of an issue for you.

On almost every platform you will lose speed if you are running the memory out of step with the FSB. You need to increase memory&gt;fsb ratios quite a bit before you make some of that loss back. Try to pick memory that will run at a sychronous speed with the motherboard/cpu you want to use, if possible. You will also find that in many cases the &gt;3200 speed memory manufacturers are shipping are near identical physically to the 3200 parts, just with different recommended latency settings.

You might want to see if you can get Tsisqua talking about his shiny toys :&gt;

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tsisqua?
toys?

Can you help me Tsisqua???? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://home.planet.nl/~elzer033/images/dutch-p51.jpg
Fight Sims Forever

mllaneza
04-24-2004, 09:20 AM
I'm not familiar with Corsair-branded memory. If you're choosing that brand because it's cheaper, shell out the extra few bucks for Kingston RAM. No hardware problem is more annoying to diagnose than a bad DIMM, so I never use anything but Kingston.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.

Dutch60
04-24-2004, 10:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mllaneza:
I'm not familiar with Corsair-branded memory. If you're choosing that brand because it's cheaper, shell out the extra few bucks for Kingston RAM. No hardware problem is more annoying to diagnose than a bad DIMM, so I never use anything but Kingston.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, Kingston is also fine with me and the extra money is no problem so which one is the best option for using with a FX-53 or a FX-55

Kingston HyperX Dual Channel Kits
1. DDR 533MHZ PC4300 2x512MB = 1GB Non-ECC CAS-3
2. DDR 400MHZ PC3200 2x512MB = 1GB Non-ECC CAS-2
3. DDR 466MHZ PC3700 2x1GB = 2GB Non-ECC CAS-3

Having BoB in mind that will probably need lots of memory and the fact that I can only put one pair of DIMMs on a AMD FX motherboard would you go for the 2GB option or one of the others?

http://home.planet.nl/~elzer033/images/dutch-p51.jpg
Fight Sims Forever

tsisqua
04-25-2004, 10:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Tsisqua?
toys?

Can you help me Tsisqua????
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry for the delay. I have been awfully busy this weekend.

Clint gives the details very good, most of which I am a complete mushroom about, but the jist is:
I bought a new system, an AMD64 3200+, Gigabyte K8VT, and it came with one gig of ram. From day one, nothing ran in 3D for long without crashing to the desktop. I tried three different GPU's, with the same results, so I knew that it wasn't the graphics card. After trying EVRYTHING else, I decided to move the Sanyo ram to two different slots. Still no good. Then I tested them one stick at a time in slot number one. I found that one stick was bad. I contacted the maker, and was shipped a new stick. Well, it was bad as well. I boxed the tower up, and sent it back, and it was returned in good working order.

At the AMD64 official forum, I learned that ALL the major ram manufacturters, yes, even Corsair, was selling ram that was supposed to be matched, yet, each set had one stick that was sub-standard. They were getting away with it till the 64bit chips came out. It seems the AMD64's are VERY picky about the memory being just so-so. A regular 32bit processor would run just fine with the same memory that had shipped with my machine.

There are others here with the 64bit machines, and have not had these issues, so I'm guessing that the standrds are being met a little better, now that so many of the AMD64's are out.

See, I can share my experiences with ya, but as for the minute details, well it takes guys like Clint to really help ya. I just know that once the memory was up-to-snuff, I had one screaming machine. I have a good feeling that we all get what we pay for, and make sure that your ram is under at least a 90 day warranty before you buy. Just in case http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good Luck, M8
Tsisqua

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-nedChristie.jpg
Tsalagi Asgaya Galvladi

clint-ruin
04-25-2004, 11:58 PM
Yup, getting matched memory can be very important. Corsair have a -very- high reputation and they tend to operate in the higher end overclocking speciality market rather than the low price/volume end. Unfortunately there's a certain amount of snake-oil in high performance computing as there is in home audio [monster cables] or ricing up japanese cars :&gt;

The 3200LL "TwinX" are basically supposed to come with a guarantee that they have been tested in a memory testing machine alongside each other and will work in dual channel mode [as found in most high end P4 boards, Nforce2, and others]. The ones you get may or may not have had this done specifically - they may just be all from the same lot that have worked together, or similar. I can basically say that mine definitely work well in DC mode well past any useful speed my existing CPU can get to so they're fine for me, but yes, apparently the AMD 64 platforms are incredibily picky. In fact the server side Operton platform was designed around only ever having to work with ECC [error correction code] memory to start with and wouldn't run with anything else.

Basically the easiest analogy is to think of your chips memory controller having a hose that has a Y connector to two taps. If the water pressure from the taps varies too much, bad things will happen. Similarly, if the time either stick takes to perform an operation differs, or the electrical output varies from one stick to another, the CPU can end up getting the wrong information at the wrong time and cause major instability problems.

Generally speaking Corsair, Geil, Crucial, Infineon, and others work the high end market, Hyundai, Kingmax [low end kingston], Legend, and many many others work the high volume/low cost market. If you are building an ultra high performance machine, there are three things you absolutely do not want to compromise on. RAM, power supply, and motherboard. Get some good stuff, whoever you end up getting it from.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

WOLFMondo
04-26-2004, 12:44 AM
Corsair is good memory but I've had to RMA 3 different sticks in the past so for the price I was disappointed.

Kingston will do just as well as will Twinmoss and there both cheaper than corsair.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

x6BL_Brando
04-26-2004, 01:00 AM
Look at this:

www.mushkin.com (http://www.mushkin.com)

Top spec, fully guaranteed.

clint-ruin
04-26-2004, 01:49 AM
Yup, the Mushkin stuff has a big following and has had for years - Anandtech has been cheerleading for it forever.

Basically a lot of these places will tend to buy from the same manufacturers or at least try to get memory that is likely to be able to run for a while at high voltage/high frequency/low latency. The exact chips they'll all use vary, last I checked the Samsung modules were the best going, but it changes every once in a while. Very few of the "high end" manufacturers actually do anything to the memory beyond testing it and name-branding it.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

T_O_A_D
04-26-2004, 01:51 AM
This is what I'm running. http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80097-34
With real goo results. Very stable! I can have IL2 running, Photoshop,Paintshop pro,ICQ,AIM,MSN,Teamspeak,Norton,SAITEK Profiler,and TRACK IR running and flip back and forth from all of them and never crash. I have WINXP Pro with an ASUS P4P800 deluxe mobo and a Pentium 2.4 800 HT CPU I have used several memory brands and have had decent succses with them. Except the OCZ stuff. I will never use it again. When building a rig I use Crucial or Corsair. THen Kingston if money is a bit short. For whoever I'm building for.

Good Luck with your purchase!

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

CountFloyd__
04-26-2004, 01:57 AM
I like to use Mushkin 222 for most things.
For heavy OCing fast Mushkin, or Twinmos Twister works fine.
So far, the advantages of using matched pairs of DIMMs escapes me. Especially if one intends to use more than two DIMMs.

clint-ruin
04-26-2004, 02:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CountFloyd__:
So far, the advantages of using matched pairs of DIMMs escapes me. Especially if one intends to use more than two DIMMs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lots of people had very very big problems getting two sticks - even of the same exact type and brand of memory - to work together in Dual Channel setups. The Via 600s and Opteron sets don't actually use DC, and it's only the newer P4 motherboards that tend to make use of it too. Won't affect every system.

Dual Channel is .. hmm, it has its benefits but it's definitely not something you're likely to notice that much except in certain cases. For those certain cases it's good, but it's not any kind of holy grail of increased performance. Single channel setups have been known to match it for most general purposes.

For most the benefit of matched memory is just a guarantee [as much as it can be] that the sticks you are buying aren't likely to have any issues working together with each other.

Same thing used to happen back when you'd try and match different manufacturers sticks with parity mode memory. Not a good idea.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg