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View Full Version : So what do you think of the Combat System in Unity?



Razrback16
11-13-2014, 11:59 PM
This is the single most disappointing thing for me in the game. I understand they were trying to make it more stealthy and make combat more difficult, but damn - this isn't even fun to play. Most of the time if I'm in a fight, you can't even see the gun reticule show up before someone shoots you, and the timing has to be so precise to roll away from the shot to avoid it that half the time you miss it and get shot anyway. I can't believe they got rid of using human shields - that was a great aspect of the combat system.

I'm in Sequence 4 right now, and at this point I'm just going to have to force myself to push through because I'm not enjoying the game at all. Very disappointing. At this point I think AC3 is a better game.
-------

Edit - on the bright side one of my buddies at work who plays the series also has Rogue for his PS3 (which comes out for PC in the spring) and he said it uses the AC4 game engine and combat system, so at least that one will be fun and gives me something to look forward to.

rcjonessnp175
11-14-2014, 12:16 AM
To me it's the best in the series from the motion capture and to the visceral feel of metal hitting flesh. You actually need to be smart and strategic unlike previous titles it was just button smashing

Tanyn
11-14-2014, 12:16 AM
Well, at first I found combat immeasurably difficult by cmparison ... but trust me, eventually, you get used to it, and good at it. The thing I love about it is two-fold. A) Even when you're good at it, it's still challenging, and not the total faceroll that every previous AC title has been. B) Stealth not only has it's own dedicated system now, but there are times when it is just *necessary*, if you value your own survival, and I couldn't possibly appreciate that any more than I do. I keep remembering all the times in AC4 (or any other previous titles), where the objective would be to escape, sometimes it would have an exclamation mark, and always play music that was supposed to be heroicly "escape-ey" ... and yet I wouldn't even run ... just casually stroll my way out, as i one-button-decimated every single guard that ever approached ... usually adding up to over 50 kills per instance.

So yes, I'm grateful for the challenge and the feeling that stealth is now viable. Now, if we could just squash any one of the 100+ immersion-killing/game-breaking bugs (that I just KNOW they knew about, prior to release), then that'd be great.

dbgager
11-14-2014, 12:20 AM
I really like it ..Dodging and parrying is great. Its not just a button mashing fest with no strategy like it was before.

rcjonessnp175
11-14-2014, 12:22 AM
Oh and dear lord using the big swords is epic! Feel the power lol

similarly
11-14-2014, 12:39 AM
I think I like Unity's combat a bit more than AC3 or AC4. I find it takes a bit more skill to do right. I like the fact that parry and dodge are more important and a bit more difficult. I feel the game's combat feels a bit more like the Arkham games in that timing is important. However, I also like the fact that you can't really take on five or six guys anymore.

One downside is that I'm having a lot of trouble with camera controls, especially when I get backed into a corner. A few times I couldn't see ANYTHING useful.

jeffies04
11-14-2014, 01:05 AM
I love it. It actually challenges me like a real sword fight would. The combat in AC just go to be two easy...if you have four guys coming at you all by yourself with swords, lances, and axes... you shouldn't be able to take them all down and not even worry about it.

I love seeing the guys coming after me and thinking "oh ****... I might be able to take one or two down but I better get the hell out of here"

This mortality that you experience.. really makes you satisfied when you accomplish something stealthily in my opinion.

Razrback16
11-14-2014, 01:17 AM
Now how are you guys approaching larger battles where enemies are shooting you and you can't see them? I've found I've had to drop smoke bombs constantly in those situations until I get the numbers whittled down to a manageable amount.

Tanyn
11-14-2014, 01:49 AM
Same, pretty much. When I start seeing the crosshairs pop up around the edges of the screen, i pop smoke and run for cover. Generally I can get one in a cover assassination before the fight breaks back out. Sometimes two. Also, my highest sense of accomplishment came from a recent fight where something similar happened. I get spotted in a restricted area, I duck behind cover. Dude comes to investigate, I assassinate him from cover.

****. His buddy saw me.

I go running towards him, but his buddies a gunner, and gets a shot off before I can get in range. 9 guards in the area heard the shot, and come to investigate, I had lost the gunner behind cover again, but didn't see one of the 9 coming up behind me, as I was too focused on what the guys in front of me were doing and wasn't watching the mini map. He sees me, so I have to move out of cover to engage. Then the other 8 see me, and come charging in.

By my recollection, there were 2 spears, 3 axes, 3 swords, and the gunner. I manage to get one swordsman down, and a spear man, through a series of dodges and parries. By then I've maneuvered my way out of cover and I'm back in the gunner's line of fire. I manage to dodge one shot, and pull the others under the balcony that the gunner was standing on. As I'm engaging one of the other swordsmen, the crosshairs start popping up, too many to dodge at one.

"Pop Smoke. Run.", My brain tells me.

So I did, and back into the opening hallway of this courtyard, where I proceeded to take cover, and immediately launcher a berserk dart at the gunner. That gunner killed two of them before they took him down. Thankfully, the spearman was one, along with one of the axemen.

So now we're down to 4. 2 axes and 2 swords.

They're all injured, after fighting me, and taking pot-shots from their own gunner before they killed him. They also haven't reacquired me yet. So, I switch to cherry bombs, and toss one in their general direction, and wait for them to group all in one place. Once clumped together, I toss a poison smoke bomb at them. It only kills one of them, so now we're down to 2 axemen, and a swordsman, all heavily injured.

While they're investigating the body of the swordsman who fell to the poison cloud, I throw a smoke grenade at them, break cover, and charge. I pull off an uncontested assassination on one of the remaining axemen. Then drop smoke again before it clears. I then proceed to slash the last axe man up and finish him.

Now it's just me and you, Swordsman ... now I can take my time.

I actually toyed with him a little, dodging and parrying just because I felt like it would piss him off. But, after a few parries, I launched a counter attack on him that ended the fight. After it all, I looked back on what had transpired over the last 3-5 minutes ... and I felt like a ****ing BOSS! :D

JAC072
11-14-2014, 07:43 AM
[SPOILER ALERT] [SPOILER ALERT] [SPOILER ALERT]

I actually wrote a detailed list of what I think is wrong with combat on unity.

Here is what I wrote on another thread.

I do not think the combat is as much of a challenge as you say it is. You only get killed if you are over run, and this can happen easily within a couple of seconds because you can't look around since the camera won't pan to different directions. I can get killed easily also from behind if an enemy is completely out of sight and in a second does a move that kills me. As an assassin you are, or should be trained to be aware of your surroundings at all times. Even during a fight.

Not being able to notice what is happening at different angles because there are enemies completely out of line of sight and which are in melee range is a detriment to being able to counter effectively when being attacked by multiple enemies. There are even times when the camera is at an angle that you can't see that well even who is right in front of you and you can't change the pan of the camera. Heck, I have been in fights where walls were blocking my view and wasn't sure what was going on exactly.

There is also way too much repetition, the combat is not as smooth as it was in other AC games such as ACIII and Black Flag. There are times that countering doesn't even work even when I am clicking on time to counter an attack that is not a strong attack. Not to mention that if you are hit by one strong attack it can knock you in a way that you can't counter at all the next 2 strong attacks the enemy does in succession which will most likely kill you. There is no implementation of riposte moves, or any good multiple combos as we had in other AC games.

The combat system is on overall lacking depth and it's lacking flexibility as you are confined to only doing 2 things, either parry or roll. Well, 3 things since you could use your range attacks as well. There are no counter moves as all you can do to attack is click the left mouse button repeatedly. You can't even use mobs to cover yourself when snipers are shooting at you, and you can only grab an opponent if he has his back on you.

Then there is the fact that there is only a slight possibility that you will grab your opponent since to do this you also use the left mouse button which also gives you a possibility of using the hidden blade. There is no choice for you to make. In other AC games you could choose on how to kill silently your opponents, but on this game the choice is taken away from you.

Then there is also the fact that you can't pick up enemy weapons to use against them. You can't even pick up enemy rifles.

I was expecting a lot more from this game. They concentrated too much on the high end pc users and on graphics when they should have looked for a more balanced game implementing graphics a bit better than ACIII and Black Flag but with a combat system as good or better than ACIII and Black Flag. Which this game fails to do.

I don't know why there are people saying that Unity's combat is better than ACIII and Black Flag when in those two games you had more choices during and even before combat. You could do riposte, you could attempt to grab your opponent and do really close fights. It might seem more challenging to some because now you get more mobs attacking you, but in ACIII and Black Flag there were mobs that were almost impossible to kill and you had to use some strategies that are missing in Unity.

I was expecting a lot more, and sure wasn't expecting to get this game as broken as it is while paying $80 USD

wichking
11-14-2014, 11:24 AM
I love the combat finally you are forced to use your full inventory. I hope ubisoft keeps this for the next ACs. It finally feels liek an AC to me. Love it that you cant just human shield anyone and dodge every bullet. now you ahve to take cover or use a smoke bomb in time <3 iam very happy

doughy12
11-14-2014, 11:35 AM
Want to know what the problem is with the combat system in UNITY, READ THIS TOPIC (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/948167-ATTENTION-Assassin-s-Creed-series-Now-with-turn-based-combat)

mmac900
11-14-2014, 11:57 AM
I think the combat is fantastic. I REALLY did not like it in black flag, it was so bland and boring, but unity might just has the best combat in the series for me.

PricklyBlitz
11-14-2014, 12:08 PM
when im facing around 6-8 opponents I roll towards the shooter attack him and switch targets and keep doing this and parrying and breaking my attack to make sure I don't get shot

doughy12
11-14-2014, 12:15 PM
when im facing around 6-8 opponents I roll towards the shooter attack him and switch targets and keep doing this and parrying and breaking my attack to make sure I don't get shot
Here is a video that proves what you just said is false:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KEC5GBiQtI

Kashrafall
11-14-2014, 12:20 PM
All you need to know about AC:U Combat. The game is stupidly easy when you have gear matching your opponent's level and or is higher than their level. The only time it is difficult is when you face enemies higher level than you. It is nothing more than a repetitive counter fest and when you do get to hit your opponent, when you finally break their guard. Another person will hit you and restart the cycle. How anyone can think this is improved combat is beyond me. Yes, the AC BF had a murder fest mode and quite frankly, it was so simplified it was boring. It however only had that when a certain moment was met. This game? Well, watch and decide for yourself. At one point I actually sighed and said this is rediculous at the amount of crazy parries I had to perform and it was only because the game's design forcing me to do so.

http://www.twitch.tv/kashrafall021/c/5492856

OuterLife
11-14-2014, 12:32 PM
Alright so when it comes to gameplay, save for the few jarring bugs, they've basically gotten everything right.

And one of those things is the combat.

I really, really dig it.

Even more so that i'm so liable to dying. Now I'm not one who's into crucially challenging games or anything of that sorts, but combat in previous AC games was so mind numbingly simple I was on autopilot. Counter, kill, start kill-spree. Repeat.

Here it's a lot more challenging and interesting. Countering at the right time, rolling from enemies. I have the 'light' hud on, so I can't even see my health, but that actually makes it all the more exciting for me.

And best of all, it also plays into all the other aspects of the game. Steering you into more stealthy methods of playing.

My only disappointments so far are two: at sequence 5 you unlock a "hold to hit harder" option that for some reason makes your sword glow red, I still can't wrap my head around that, also the animations aren't very exciting and killing an opponent forces the camera to zoom in for a few seconds pausing all the action.

doughy12
11-14-2014, 12:32 PM
The only reason I posted the video I did was to annihilate any more of these forum *** clowns lying about being able to fight multiple enemies at the same time.

PricklyBlitz
11-14-2014, 12:35 PM
lol thats litterally the first level of the game meant to be that easy you have no idea what your talking about presenting this video as proof

jeffies04
11-14-2014, 01:06 PM
Eh just let it go.

I posted two videos in his other thread showing how it normally is but he'll keep arguing and calling folks clowns until the thread gets locked. Let's not let that happen :)

jeffies04
11-14-2014, 01:14 PM
Here it's a lot more challenging and interesting. Countering at the right time, rolling from enemies. I have the 'light' hud on, so I can't even see my health, but that actually makes it all the more exciting for me.

It's insane how quickly you can be impaled by a spear for example. You really have to be on your game when it comes to parrying or dodging.

topeira1980
11-14-2014, 06:40 PM
All you need to know about AC:U Combat. The game is stupidly easy when you have gear matching your opponent's level and or is higher than their level. The only time it is difficult is when you face enemies higher level than you. It is nothing more than a repetitive counter fest and when you do get to hit your opponent, when you finally break their guard. Another person will hit you and restart the cycle. How anyone can think this is improved combat is beyond me. Yes, the AC BF had a murder fest mode and quite frankly, it was so simplified it was boring. It however only had that when a certain moment was met. This game? Well, watch and decide for yourself. At one point I actually sighed and said this is rediculous at the amount of crazy parries I had to perform and it was only because the game's design forcing me to do so.

http://www.twitch.tv/kashrafall021/c/5492856

prettu impressive fighting skill there, actually. i usually mess up the parries more often then you do.

thing is - the combat system lets you do better if you upgrade the gear and use a lot of medicine. which you did. case in point. in every other AC game didnt you could kill 50 enemies with the first weapon you got. what ACU is doing is a big step forward.

when i want combat to be hard i disable the counter icons (do that) and lower my gear to gear i enjoy combat with. if i feel combat is easy i'd take a worse sword or worse armor or worse belt with less slots for medicine. you can set your own difficulty if you chose the proper armor.
also you've been fighiting level 3 enemies. is it that easy for you against level 4 enemies? and level 5?

p.s. - strange. it seems like the camera in that clip is really far. how come?! my camera is closer. much closer....

generikyo
11-14-2014, 08:02 PM
The combat mechanics is a good step, but, it was mind boggling to see the removal of disarms, human shields, hidden blade as a primary weapon, and rope darts among other things. All of those things could have been implemented in this new combat system. It is a good first step, but, a lot of things that made combat satisfying (opinion) have been removed. I can perfect parry quite easily in this game and by no means is this new system difficult or challenging at all (it only seems hard at the beginning because the player lacked any of the default regular abilities and gear).

Someone on another forum brought AC1's combat up and it was pretty spot on. To summarize, Unity and all the games prior with the exception of the first, had no risk/reward. The hidden blade could have stayed in as a primary weapon (even disarms and hand to hand). If the hidden blade was the primary weapon, you couldn't block and had to ensure to time your counter perfectly to ensure a one shot kill (other weapons weren't guaranteed counter kills either) or risk getting damaged.

To say entering combat is a "failed state" to encourage stealth would be ok if stealth was good or close to the level of Metal Gear Solid's stealth. However, in this iteration, it is not quite perfected yet. I hope the future AC games will continue with the new combat system, but, not lose sight of the things that made the combat satisfying in the previous games.

haNylanda
11-14-2014, 09:32 PM
I miss the ability to use fist and disarm people.
The human shield would be nice as well.

Its not a good system for stealth, and I miss the change of decide what weapon to use when the enemy is not facing me.
(The ability to whistle to get someone close to a hidden spot would be nicely welcome in a patch)
So far not I do not like the new combat system a lot

Marcus101RR
11-14-2014, 09:52 PM
Combat system is "fight or flight" and in most cases its flight, once you get 10 or more guards on you, you are screwed, there is no literal defense anymore. It is realistic, once you are surrounded, its mine to run.

RaulO4
11-14-2014, 10:42 PM
bad,

its not new at all.... they just removed counter kill.

they should add it back in but maybe have a system where you have to counter just at the right moment just like the parry for it to work.



well the new fight system removed

disarmed,
duel wielding,
grabbing weapons from the ground,
no blocking, (just parry)
cant grab and throw people,

..so the new system really just removed features

also no daggers

Green_Reaper
11-14-2014, 10:50 PM
I like having a variety of weapons to fight with. Bashing people with my morning star is so satisfying. I miss being able to use my hidden blades for combat though. In all the other games you could always take it out, even if you weren't in combat.

StrikeQ
11-14-2014, 11:24 PM
Combat to me is alright. But it does feel sluggish and unresponsive a lot of the time. And the zoomed in feel is kind of meh. Then again I did play Shadows of Mordor not to long ago and that free flow combat was nice and smooth (Yea some may say arcadey or w/e but it worked flawlessly).

Animations seem kind of lackluster, especially the finishing moves. So few of them and all kind of bland (Again the Shadows of Mordor executions were pretty cool).

topeira1980
11-15-2014, 09:26 AM
bad,

its not new at all.... they just removed counter kill.

they should add it back in but maybe have a system where you have to counter just at the right moment just like the parry for it to work.



well the new fight system removed

disarmed,
duel wielding,
grabbing weapons from the ground,
no blocking, (just parry)
cant grab and throw people,

..so the new system really just removed features

also no daggers

yes, they removed quit a few features but for good reasons, IMO.

-being able to disarm an apponent is a really really easy way of dispatching them and ACU's combat is trying to be hard. so that feature isnt in line with the way combat is meant to be.

-grabbing weapons from the ground diminishes the need to buy them. i agree it makes no sense to not be able to pick up weapons but i understand why.

-blocking would have been , again, way too easy. just holding a button and become invincible. the entire point of the parry only system (like like in batman, SOM and ryse) is that u need timing. just like in real life fencing.

-gragbing and throwing could have been really cool, but it had to be balanced so it isnt too easy. i think there should have been a way to parry someone and push him against a fellow AI to make them both stagger or even fall. but NOT grabbing someone and holding him. if you could do that than you could just stab him from behind and kill him. again. too easy.

- dual wielding could have been in the game. no balance issues here, i suppose. just more complex. how to pick your second weapon? what is the benefit of dual wielding as apposed to other fighting styles? etc.


most of what you miss from other AC games are the features that made the combat system completely unbalanced and really easy and unrealistic. in true fending or even other martial arts disarbing another person from his weapon is really hard. especially if you are also using a weapon and have one hand holding something. for that u really need a "empty hand" option.

i agree that there should have been a way to use empty hands+hidden blade. with the HB equipped you can not parry. you HAVE to do perfect parries. so it's harder. also hits do less damage let yet there is somehow a way to disarm and certain strict conditions. maybe not a disarm that takes the weapon but only a way to make the enemy lose HIS weapon.

i think they removed a lot of stuff that just dont belong and made good choices.


i really really enjoy the combat in ACU. really. it is the only combat system where the AI is actually thinking\random and not obeying a pattern that you can exploit. lvl 5 enemies are tough and unpredictable and even hard (for me) on a one on one fight (for my lvl 2 or 3 arno) and a single enemy that isnt predictable doesnt exist in ANY other action game. not batman. not SOM. not RYSE. they all have very obvious patterns that kill them, even if it's "stun, vault, attack attack attack" . it's still a pattern that never fail. enemies in ACU are random. more life like. more like the player himself.

bottom line -
the combat in ACU against high level enemies is the closest thing to fighting another human player in PVP and that's wonderful IMO. ubi is one step closer to having a combat system that could, potentially, one day work on multiplayer human vs human.

Eymerich
11-21-2014, 03:07 PM
[SPOILER ALERT] [SPOILER ALERT] [SPOILER ALERT]
I was expecting a lot more from this game. They concentrated too much on the high end pc users and on graphics

They concentrated so much that it barely runs on those PCs. Don't fool yourself, they didn't care at all about PC users, that's why their main team worked on the console versions instead. PC versions of AC games were always badly optimized and this one is no exception.
The problems have nothing to do with PC gaming. It's just that the game is a mess and was clearly rushed. That's what you get when you decide to start making a game per year.

Chook1980
11-21-2014, 03:37 PM
At first i wasn't a fan of the new combat, but after a little practice i find it quite satisfying

dericslab
11-21-2014, 03:41 PM
I really didn't have a problem with it at all, it felt normal to me from the start.

greymann17
11-21-2014, 06:24 PM
I'm surprised that more hasn't been made of the total absence of unarmed combat not just the shield and disarm. I found aspects of it very satisfying in previous editions of AC.

But using what we have, after getting used to the new system, I found the missions rather boring. All talk about sandbox was crap. You took their hints or found it nearly impossible. Why I found it boring was that this system almost always worked. First make a ground level pass around the red zone taking out easy fruit. Also find a convenient place or two to reload, the missions let you completely leave the area to buy more equipment and return as many times as you like. They also let you switch equipment during the mission. Then find the highest ground you can outside the red zone and repeat. Then move in the area and circle starting at the highest point possible and take out all snipers. Then take out those guarding the bells and silence them. Then use lots of smoke and pick off the rest of the guards in small groups. Then go after the objective. Boring.