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VMF513_Sandman
03-28-2004, 03:08 PM
its highly obvious the luftwaffles and the russians complained too much that the 50 cal's were finally getting competitive. in v1.22, the 50's on the p-51 at 195 convergance would snap a wing off with as little as a 2 second burst, saw a a6m5 in half with little problem, catch a bomber on fire, and had long range.

in aep, now the 50 cal is practically worthless. at same convergance, same plane, same distance of fire....at .2 or closer out, the target's wings not only stay on, it takes double the ammo vs 1.22. instead of improving the p-51's, they neuter them with worthless guns and mediocre speed/climb rate. all the popular ships of 1.22.....the mustangs especially, get the shaft. the not-so-popular p-40xx obviously didnt get touched; the 50's hit rather hard.....2x's harder than the guns of the p-51, the 47, and especially the 38.

is also obvious he prefers 1939 antiquated ships (and bi-planes) gives them not only the climb rate to catch a fast moving p-51 in a climb, but also outrun same and chase down p-38's. add to the fact that the green-shell guns are on par with a star wars tie-fighter.
trying to manually shoot a bomber's guns were as fruitless then as now....but the ai gunners are 'just too good'. especially the guns of the b-17..luftwaffle's get slapped down in 1 pass from the 'almost accurate' modeling of the 50 cal's.

now the 109/190's are back to having tank skins obviously to 50 cals. looks like enough luftwhiners complained enough that the 50 cal was gettin to be too much of a good weapon. now their complaining that the 108's are not strong enough. they give that gun better accuracy than the 50's, and it was made to take down bombers.
they give the spitfire's .303's more punch than the 50's in aep....practically 50 caliber strength of 1.22. 2 or 3 direct hits from a spitfire, and 109's wings come off....but the 20mm cannon of the 38 doesnt do this. the 20mm's of the russians are able to cut a wing off a jug or 51 with ease, but the 50's barely make them into a fireball and still have enough ammo to rtb.
the speed and climb rate on the hurricane's still hasnt been addressed....but the cannon fire of the hurricane mkIIc will obliterate their targets.

must be nice that a 109 or a 190's engine will just smoke, but not seize with just 1 hit to the engine, but that same hit from a 'weak gun' will stop a 51's engine in its tracks.
the p-51-b and c models can blow up from over-g..i can see shearing a wing off, but become a smoke puff....that i cant see.
its very obvious that the default mg's on the 109/190's are stronger and it also seems more accurate. the gunpods should hinder manuverability...i dont see this happening in games. 2 hits, bye bye bogey.
now we have a6m2/a6m5's with more armor than the p-40. engines MIGHT smoke. they now take a beating that would knock an american plane down. especially that ki-84 'jet' that only takes 2 oz's of stick pressure to do a snap roll equal to a 190 and the same speed as a 190. no jap. plane had the speed it has in aep. the german plane's would eat tojo for breakfast with just the mg's...wouldnt even need cannons.

its apparent that oleg ignores the american pilots and highly favors the european side. countless links on american specs to the 50 cal and plane spec's have been posted here and elsewhere on ubi....and nothing changes for the warbirds of the US....just the axis side with 2x's the speed/turn/climb rate of the allied.
they make the mg's of the 109's more clearer...the 50's...so faint u can barely detect them. used to be, when a bogey was hit, that plane was glinting left and right with hits. now, that obviously has been removed. all that's left is if ur lucky, small pieces of confetti showing the bandit was hit.

its obvious that the american airpower has been reduced to a laughing stock in fb...no wonder there is double the 109/190's, jap. planes, and super uber russian planes in the air. the 51 i see is becoming scarce...it's all german a/c now. if they cant take down a plane with just 1 hit, they say the guns isnt strong enough. what's next.....aim-9 sidewinders for germans?

those that prefer the american planes feel they get the short end of the shaft in all areas...oleg apparently just doesnt want the american planes to be even slightly competitive with anything. if the american planes were so bad, why did russian in ww2 buy so many p-39's and p-47's in ww2? if they were as bad as oleg makes them in fb, russia would have sent the birds back as fast as britain shipped our p-38's that didnt have the supercharger's back.

[This message was edited by VMF513_Sandman on Sun March 28 2004 at 02:23 PM.]

VMF513_Sandman
03-28-2004, 03:08 PM
its highly obvious the luftwaffles and the russians complained too much that the 50 cal's were finally getting competitive. in v1.22, the 50's on the p-51 at 195 convergance would snap a wing off with as little as a 2 second burst, saw a a6m5 in half with little problem, catch a bomber on fire, and had long range.

in aep, now the 50 cal is practically worthless. at same convergance, same plane, same distance of fire....at .2 or closer out, the target's wings not only stay on, it takes double the ammo vs 1.22. instead of improving the p-51's, they neuter them with worthless guns and mediocre speed/climb rate. all the popular ships of 1.22.....the mustangs especially, get the shaft. the not-so-popular p-40xx obviously didnt get touched; the 50's hit rather hard.....2x's harder than the guns of the p-51, the 47, and especially the 38.

is also obvious he prefers 1939 antiquated ships (and bi-planes) gives them not only the climb rate to catch a fast moving p-51 in a climb, but also outrun same and chase down p-38's. add to the fact that the green-shell guns are on par with a star wars tie-fighter.
trying to manually shoot a bomber's guns were as fruitless then as now....but the ai gunners are 'just too good'. especially the guns of the b-17..luftwaffle's get slapped down in 1 pass from the 'almost accurate' modeling of the 50 cal's.

now the 109/190's are back to having tank skins obviously to 50 cals. looks like enough luftwhiners complained enough that the 50 cal was gettin to be too much of a good weapon. now their complaining that the 108's are not strong enough. they give that gun better accuracy than the 50's, and it was made to take down bombers.
they give the spitfire's .303's more punch than the 50's in aep....practically 50 caliber strength of 1.22. 2 or 3 direct hits from a spitfire, and 109's wings come off....but the 20mm cannon of the 38 doesnt do this. the 20mm's of the russians are able to cut a wing off a jug or 51 with ease, but the 50's barely make them into a fireball and still have enough ammo to rtb.
the speed and climb rate on the hurricane's still hasnt been addressed....but the cannon fire of the hurricane mkIIc will obliterate their targets.

must be nice that a 109 or a 190's engine will just smoke, but not seize with just 1 hit to the engine, but that same hit from a 'weak gun' will stop a 51's engine in its tracks.
the p-51-b and c models can blow up from over-g..i can see shearing a wing off, but become a smoke puff....that i cant see.
its very obvious that the default mg's on the 109/190's are stronger and it also seems more accurate. the gunpods should hinder manuverability...i dont see this happening in games. 2 hits, bye bye bogey.
now we have a6m2/a6m5's with more armor than the p-40. engines MIGHT smoke. they now take a beating that would knock an american plane down. especially that ki-84 'jet' that only takes 2 oz's of stick pressure to do a snap roll equal to a 190 and the same speed as a 190. no jap. plane had the speed it has in aep. the german plane's would eat tojo for breakfast with just the mg's...wouldnt even need cannons.

its apparent that oleg ignores the american pilots and highly favors the european side. countless links on american specs to the 50 cal and plane spec's have been posted here and elsewhere on ubi....and nothing changes for the warbirds of the US....just the axis side with 2x's the speed/turn/climb rate of the allied.
they make the mg's of the 109's more clearer...the 50's...so faint u can barely detect them. used to be, when a bogey was hit, that plane was glinting left and right with hits. now, that obviously has been removed. all that's left is if ur lucky, small pieces of confetti showing the bandit was hit.

its obvious that the american airpower has been reduced to a laughing stock in fb...no wonder there is double the 109/190's, jap. planes, and super uber russian planes in the air. the 51 i see is becoming scarce...it's all german a/c now. if they cant take down a plane with just 1 hit, they say the guns isnt strong enough. what's next.....aim-9 sidewinders for germans?

those that prefer the american planes feel they get the short end of the shaft in all areas...oleg apparently just doesnt want the american planes to be even slightly competitive with anything. if the american planes were so bad, why did russian in ww2 buy so many p-39's and p-47's in ww2? if they were as bad as oleg makes them in fb, russia would have sent the birds back as fast as britain shipped our p-38's that didnt have the supercharger's back.

[This message was edited by VMF513_Sandman on Sun March 28 2004 at 02:23 PM.]

CaptainGelo
03-28-2004, 03:16 PM
all guns seems less effectiv... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif

CaptainGelo
03-28-2004, 03:17 PM
190/109 is easy to kill with 50's......and

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif

VVS-Manuc
03-28-2004, 03:18 PM
Oh my God...you just revealed the russian-german-british anti-US conspiracy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

CaptainGelo
03-28-2004, 03:23 PM
almost any plane blowsup from high G now, even bf's....
some peaple like post long treads about nothing..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif

Flamin_Squirrel
03-28-2004, 03:27 PM
The only correct word to summarise that post is 'bollocks'.

You think the .50's suck? Well they're almost as effective as 20mm Mg151's. P51 has poor performance you say? The B can almost stay with a 190A-9. And the A-9, on receiving a single .50 slug will destroy the sight, and make the plane even harder to fly.

You should actualy try flying a 190 for a while and see how well you do. After being outclimbed by spitfires you'll be back to the 51 very quickly.

I agree about the ki, but to try and suggest the luftwaffe planes are uber is insane.

If you're getting hit by mk108 shells from 109's and you're being out turned by 190's then practice before you come up with such ludicrous statements. I think AEP nees some serious tweaking in DM/FM terms, but you are way off the mark.

CHDT
03-28-2004, 03:43 PM
No, there are strange things.

The six guns of the P-40 are very effective, while the same six guns of the P-40B are crap! I don't understand. Hitting power of the same guns on these two aircrafts is vastly different! But the reason?

Cheers,

LuftLuver
03-28-2004, 03:44 PM
BINGO!

U.S. planes continue to get screwed in each patch/add-on.

AEP is the last straw, finally reducing the effectiveness of the .50 cal to nothing.

1 - .50cal dispersion is wrong

2 - .50cal tracer fire is wrong

3 - .50cal hitting power is wrong

Have a nice day. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

vmf513apache
03-28-2004, 04:17 PM
Oleg... watch your back or I'll show you what a .50 cal can really do. You better fix it pronto.

VMF513_Sandman
03-28-2004, 04:19 PM
i remember the hurricane being fast, high rate of climb, and would turn with almost anything...and the guns were pure death. now, the same hurricane is so worthless, no1 flies it anymore

VW-IceFire
03-28-2004, 05:25 PM
Some of the points here are valid...some of them not and some of the replies definately angling towards the kind of flamewars we don't want to have here.

Lets be honest in that all weapons are significantly reduced in many situations. There are still the times when a short burst will cripple any plane....there are many more instances than before where a full ammo load will only partially damage the target plane. It happens offline in lesser quantities than online but its still there.

The .50 cal, the MG151/20, the ShVAK and Hispano to a lesser extent....even the MK108 and MK103 seem to either break a plane in two on the first hit or the plane sustain multiple blasts with no damage seemingly done to cripple the target fighter.

The problem right now is massive inconsistency on levels not previously seen. I scincerly hope they get fixed in the upcoming patch...either DM globals go down or weapon globals go up. The thing is that all guns and all sides are affected...I fly both Axis and Allies using as many types of aircraft as possible (190's, 109's, Yak's, Spitfire's, P-51's, P-47's, etc.) and this is an across the board "problem".

The DM globals just need some tweaking.

As far as the USAAF being serverely restricted...this is not the case. The .50cal has some problems with it but the P-51 is still one of the deadliest fighters I care to fly into almost any situation. If you play on a dogfight server its not...largely because the P-51 relishes having speed and altitude to work with (either or both)...most don't have the paitence or the time in a quick and deadly dogfight match and thus low altitude highly manuverable fighters like the Yak's are generally better. If its not the P-51 then its the P-40 in the early war which can hold its own against almost any early war opponent when flown right. Another major point is that the P-47's roll rate is being fixed and that should show up in the next patch for sure. Even so, the D-10 has always been a good bird to fly into battle...again with altitude and speed to your advantage.

Depends where you are and what you're doing but the USAAF is just as well off as the Luftwaffe, RAF, and the VVS.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

crazyivan1970
03-28-2004, 05:35 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif not sure what to make of this yet...

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

WWMaxGunz
03-28-2004, 09:21 PM
Worthless, worthless, ineffective, worthless, no good, neutered.

And then there's the guns and DM part.

MAYBE there's something about the scatter of the M2's and the jury is out with the judge on that one.

At close range I have no problem tearing the crap out of planes with the P-51 or P-38 using MG's only from about 250m in. Shots get wasted but so does the target most of the time, either dead or very damaged.

Worthless? Ineffective? Geeee! That's suppose to be the 151/20's! Or somebody else's favorite weapon, just pick one and somebody will say it's screwed....

Some planes that only mount 50's have some of the guns fired by the ==cannon trigger==. Shhhhhh! It's a BIG SECRET! If you want to fire all the guns at once you have to use the key or button set up to fire both MG's and cannon. If you want to conserve ammo then just use one or the other. Or if you want to use 2 convergences seperately then whoot, there it is.

If all you want to do is p!$$ and whine then post a bunch of exaggerated stank and expect changes made to suit. I love the ones who think that in a sim aimed for realism they and almost anyone else should still be able to duplicate the feats of the best aces! "Why can't I do that?" really qualifies the entire view!

For some people *realism* is the equivalent of getting a racing sticker for their everyday car. They can't live without the stripes and accompanying fantasies. If they could afford a fullbore trackworthy racer and somehow get it legally on the street it still wouldn't make them a pro, just an upcoming statistic and entry into the Darwin's Journal or Evolution in Action.


Neal

CaptainGelo
03-28-2004, 10:11 PM
and about "super" russian 20mm cannon....try to take yak and shot only with cannon and see how many hits its goint to take u to kill anything, then try same with that 20mm gun on p38(and remember russian got faster ROF) and u'll see that its not that bad...

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif