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king-hailz
11-10-2014, 11:21 PM
Everything I'm about to say was left as a late comment in another thread, but I found myself talking for longer than I expected to and I wanted to make sure my comment reached a wider audience, so here's a whole thread for it.
Here's my problem with AC3: So much of it is just blatantly, objectively poor game design. It's been awhile since I've played it, so I'll be hardpressed to give specific, detailed examples, but I found so many missions to be frustratingly difficult not due to actually difficult gameplay but poor design.
Here's one example off the top of my head: there's an age old game design problem of 'how do you get the player to look up?' The answer is that there really is no good, clever, subtle way to tell the player to look up. If you have a mission where the key to progressing is looking up, you can do that, but I guarantee you, looking up will be the last damn thing anyone tries to do. And yet, there's a point when you're playing as Haytham where you have to 'find the mysterious woman.' Hint: she's in the ****ing trees. I had to google that **** to know what to do.
The final chase against Lee is one of the worst designed gameplay segments I've played in my entire life. Towards the end, you've been conditioned to move up when you see flames, and then, after having to do that like, at least twice, there's a moment where you see flames and have to descend. If you try to ascend, you fail instantly. **** that. Not to mention that there's no hint during the beginning of the chase that you need to swing left and get on the lower ground or else you'll fail. Every time, there are those two obstacles: first the bomb, then the wall of soldiers. They slow you down to the point that you fail, but only so much that you think you can do it faster if you just try again. That's ********.
I'm sure there are more examples. Many missions are total cluster****s. Combine this with the fact that Desmond's conclusion is trite, confusing, and unsatisfying, as well as the fact that Ubisoft wasn't prepared for the sheer amount of glitches on the new engine, and you end up with a poor quality title.
Here's the important thing I want to put out to all defenders of AC3. You might not have had any glitches. You may have approved of Desmond's ending, or just found that it didn't matter much to you. But if you played through the game and it's poor level design didn't give you a similar reaction to mine, it's because you probably just lucked into not running into those issues. You might have read this and thought 'I looked up! See? It wasn't a problem for me!' And if that's true, that's great. I'm glad you enjoyed the game. But the vast majority of gamers outside of this subreddit had these issues.
I get the impression that a lot of AC3 defenders (and don't be offended if this doesn't describe you) are simply contrarians. I think there's a good number of people on this subreddit who defend AC3 and Connor just because they're disliked. I played the game long after it came out, and I didn't see any of the negativity that happened about it at launch, and I expected to love it. Everything about it pointed towards it being excellent. I was surprised to find it sitting right at the bottom of my list of the games. Downvote me if you must, but I find the game's design to be objectively poor.
I'm gonna add some extra stuff here. Let's talk about Connor. The most common defense of his character is that he's an accurate portrayal of his people, and that his stoic nature makes him compelling. Obviously, if you like the character, that's an objective thing. Don't read this as an attack on your opinions, but I want to explain why he's so criticized. The first and most important thing is that accuracy doesn't mean compellingness. He can be the most historically accurate portrayal of any character ever and not be interesting.
The real reason he's disliked is because he's incredibly hard to empathize with and relate to. We supported Altair because we wanted to see his character grow into not being a ****, and we wanted to see his honor restored. We supported Ezio because we wanted to see him get revenge on the people who killed his family. We like Edward because a lot of us can relate to his motivation of wanting more power and influence and money. All three of these well-liked characters have motivations for joining the Assassins and following the creed. Connor doesn't. Unlike the other three, he's visited by Juno in a weird ****ing fever dream, and searches for the Assassins through no real desire of his own. This, in my opinion, is the weakest part of his character. Not the stoic-ness. We can't put ourselves in his head and know why he does the things he does.
While the homestead missions, for some, made him more likeable, I found many moments in the single player campaign where he's actively dislikeable. I seem to recall at one point Achilles congratulating himself and Connor for what they'd achieved together, and Connor basically throws a pouting fit that Achilles did nothing and it was all him. I may be getting the details wrong, but I clearly remember sitting there and thinking, "What a self-centered son of a *****!" for not appreciating Achilles' help. Almost immediately after, Connor apologizes and they reconcile, but no depth is added to either character as a result.
His motivations continue to be flimsy throughout the game. Later on, I believe, if I'm recalling correctly, he discovers that it wasn't Charles Lee who burned his village, it was George Washington. Connor still focuses on killing Lee, there's no refocusing of his hatred in the direction of Washington. This 'twist' makes no sense, changes nothing about the trajectory of the story, and only serves to further muddle Connor's already flimsy motivations.
The best thing about Connor, to me, was his relationship with his dad. I found the idea of Haytham being his enemy to be very fascinating. I liked the direction they started going in with that, even when they decided to work together for a time. This father vs. son conflict could've tied very well with Desmond's own troubles with his dad, but that sideplot never went anywhere. An Assassin with a templar dad is interesting enough to carry the plot of a game, but it felt like a mere distraction from the weak over-arching story.
And then there's the fact that it feels like Connor merely photobombs the events of the American revolution. Not once does it feel like he's actively influencing things, he's always just along for the ride. With the other assassins, their personal struggles are what influence the historical events and figures involved, for the most part. This is evident throughout Ezio's time in Italy. He has just as much an effect on da Vinci and Machiavelli as they have on him. In AC3, this is not the case. Sometimes, his goals align with the events, but they would've happened anyway without him. The Boston Tea Party could've easily happened without Connor's help, same with Paul Revere's Buggy-*** Midnight Ride.
Anyway. Rant over. What do you guys think?
EDIT: Just remembered two more things I wanna discuss. First of all, the combat, while I enjoyed it, is way too easy. Second of all, the parkour sucks. Running through the cities was terrible because there are too many rooftop guards, as well as the fact that roof guards see you on the street, and street guards see you on the roof. Navigation was ********.
Also, I have a feeling not many AC3 lovers are gonna read this, I'm worried that it's just gonna be AC3 haters like me reading this to confirm their opinions, and not any people who disagree will even take the time to read.

I agree with most of this... certain parts I disagree but overall he is spot on! However this is not meant as an argument from me! Its just a post on reddit that I am posting here! That I thought was interesting!

Megas_Doux
11-10-2014, 11:22 PM
Paragraphs, please.....

Assassin_M
11-10-2014, 11:24 PM
How is this "something for all AC III fans"? No one cares that he dislikes AC III nor that he thinks people defend Connor and AC III because they're disliked.

No, really. No one cares. His post offers nothing new from the usual dislike of Connor and AC III. how is this in any way worthy of its own thread?

king-hailz
11-10-2014, 11:28 PM
Paragraphs, please.....

http://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/2lu2me/since_this_subreddit_tends_to_have_an_ac3_*****/

Original post with paragraphs...

Megas_Doux
11-10-2014, 11:29 PM
Thanks, king-hailz.

No offense, it is just that got a headache by the mere act of looking at it haha.

king-hailz
11-10-2014, 11:33 PM
How is this "something for all AC III fans"? No one cares that he dislikes AC III nor that he thinks people defend Connor and AC III because they're disliked.

No, really. No one cares. His post offers nothing new from the usual dislike of Connor and AC III. how is this in any way worthy of its own thread?

So you have the right to speak on behalf of EVERYONE?
I think most AC3 fans think there is no justification for the criticism it got, when I believe there clearly is! This is why I wanted it to be a post.

Namikaze_17
11-10-2014, 11:33 PM
I've bored of talking about AC3 & Connor...

We need a opposite day in which everyone likes what they dislike, and vice versa.

It'd be pretty entertaining. :p

king-hailz
11-10-2014, 11:34 PM
Thanks, king-hailz.

No offense, it is just that got a headache by the mere act of looking at it haha.

It's OK :D

Assassin_M
11-10-2014, 11:36 PM
So you have the right to speak on behalf of EVERYONE?
Yes, I am. If an AC III or Connor fan comes here and says "No, I care what this guy has to say, shut up, M" then this sentence will have some merit.


I think most AC3 fans think there is no justification for the criticism it got, when I believe there clearly is! This is why I wanted it to be a post.
if someone wants to think there's no justification, then it's their own opinion and nothing will change that. I think AC III had terrible game design, someone else may have enjoyed every mission in AC III. there's no objectivity to it, once that word is mentioned ANYWHERE on an opinion piece, it becomes invalid.

And no, you're wrong, most AC3 fans don't think there's no justification. Most AC III and Connor fans I ran into realize that AC III had its mistakes and downfalls.

king-hailz
11-10-2014, 11:37 PM
I've bored of talking about AC3 & Connor...

We need a opposite day in which everyone likes what they dislike, and vice versa.

It'd be pretty entertaining. :p

That would actually be A LOT of fun! I'd love to hate Ezio and love Connor for a day... I would actually have reasonable points because I know they both have flaws and both have their strengths. However I like Ezio from personal preference...

king-hailz
11-10-2014, 11:40 PM
Yes, I am. If an AC III or Connor fan comes here and says "No, I care what this guy has to say, shut up, M" then this sentence will have some merit.


if someone wants to think there's no justification, then it's their own opinion and nothing will change that. I think AC III had terrible game design, someone else may have enjoyed every mission in AC III. there's no objectivity to it, once that word is mentioned ANYWHERE on an opinion piece, it becomes invalid.

And no, you're wrong, most AC3 fans don't think there's no justification. Every AC III and Connor realizes that AC III had its mistakes and downfalls.

I want to see people's opinions if they liked or disliked the design for whatever reason! That is why I make threads to see what other people think about AC! If you cant see that then I'm sorry... I would have liked to read your opinion but its obviously to precious for anyone else isn't it!

Namikaze_17
11-10-2014, 11:43 PM
That would actually be A LOT of fun! I'd love to hate Ezio and love Connor for a day... I would actually have reasonable points because I know they both have flaws and both have their strengths. However I like Ezio from personal preference...

I wouldn't say I dislike/hate Ezio, but you get my point. ;)

However, something like that would be fun...

Assassin_M
11-10-2014, 11:44 PM
I want to see people's opinions if they liked or disliked the design for whatever reason! That is why I make threads to see what other people think about AC! If you cant see that then I'm sorry... I would have liked to read your opinion but its obviously to precious for anyone else isn't it!
Lolno, you don't want to see people's opinions. This is a thread about objectivity, this is a thread saying "hey, AC III fans, your game sucks and this guy says so" AC III is dead, it's been 2 years already. This has been going on for years and NEITHER side is willing to engage in this again. You want opinions? search the forums, there's A TON of threads arguing AC III and Connor. You'll find mine there too, talking about everything.

It's not precious, i'm simply not willing to go through this for the upteenth time. I went at it with Loyal, Sushi, Sixkeys, Stock, HumanTowel, Rooster, YOU, Kaschra and A LOT of others who dislike Connor and AC III.

king-hailz
11-10-2014, 11:45 PM
I wouldn't say I dislike/hate Ezio, but you get my point. ;)

However, something like that would be fun...

Yep. It would be fun... Maybe someday after unity and rogue have been out for while, and everyone is back.

Namikaze_17
11-10-2014, 11:53 PM
Yep. It would be fun... Maybe someday after unity and rogue have been out for while, and everyone is back.

Of Course, mate. ;)

king-hailz
11-10-2014, 11:56 PM
Lolno, you don't want to see people's opinions. This is a thread about objectivity, this is a thread saying "hey, AC III fans, your game sucks and this guy says so" AC III is dead, it's been 2 years already. This has been going on for years and NEITHER side is willing to engage in this again. You want opinions? search the forums, there's A TON of threads arguing AC III and Connor. You'll find mine there too, talking about everything.

It's not precious, i'm simply not willing to go through this for the upteenth time. I went at it with Loyal, Sushi, Sixkeys, Stock, HumanTowel, Rooster, YOU, Kaschra and A LOT of others who dislike Connor and AC III.

I actually do want to see peoples opinions... Also when me and you had the discussion i clearly remember telling you that i don't dislike ac3, i have the game and have played it many times. I realize the title makes it seem like i want to put it in front of the ac3 fans faces but i don't so i changed it,

Assassin_M
11-10-2014, 11:58 PM
I actually do want to see peoples opinions... Also when me and you had the discussion i clearly remember telling you that i don't dislike ac3, i have the game and have played it many times. I realize the title makes it seem like i want to put it in front of the ac3 fans faces but i don't so i changed it,
I know and I remember saying that it was okay and we ended it on "kinda" positive terms.
Sure then, the title seemed very confrontational to me. I still don't agree about arguing AC III nor Connor but since you were kind enough to change the title (you can do that now?) I'll eave this thread because i'v no interest in it.

king-hailz
11-11-2014, 12:02 AM
I know and I remember saying that it was okay and we ended it on "kinda" positive terms.
Sure then, the title seemed very confrontational to me. I still don't agree about arguing AC III nor Connor but since you were kind enough to change the title (you can do that now?) I'll eave this thread because i'v no interest in it.

OK, bye... :D

BTW it changes the title on the post not the actual title at the start page unfortunately.

ze_topazio
11-11-2014, 12:09 AM
Last night I dreamt AC3 Remastered edition had been announced.

Ureh
11-11-2014, 12:11 AM
Last night I dreamt AC3 Remastered edition had been announced.

I wish I had that dream...

Namikaze_17
11-11-2014, 12:24 AM
We always can make our dreams a reality... :rolleyes:

ze_topazio
11-11-2014, 12:35 AM
Not all of them.

Namikaze_17
11-11-2014, 12:53 AM
Not all of them.

Depends on what you're dreaming... ;)

Hood2theBurbs
11-11-2014, 01:08 AM
Is it really such a big deal if people like Connor or hate him? Love AC3 or hate AC3? The game is done there is no more content coming out for it. Seems as if you're trying to provoke a response and in all seriousness who cares what some random guy on Reddit has to say?

Anyway, I hated AC3 and Connor when the game came out because the game was a total letdown, the ridiculous Desmond sacrifice ending, poor mission design, and I didn't even get any of the glitches that people complained about, lastly Connor just flat out irritated me.

I replayed the game maybe a month ago and now I think that it's a solid game. It's definitely got flaws but playing it again 2 years removed from the immense feeling of disappointment I had, the game is tolerable. Combat is fun even if it's easy, parkour really isn't bad and I like the Boston and New York. The frontier is just flat out beautiful and is my absolute favorite game environment. And Connor has become my favorite Assassin. I even like the story despite how badly things ended for Connor (this coming from someone who hates bitter endings). The story simply was not executed properly. I think alot of people who disliked AC3 should give it another chance but approach it with a clear open mind. Who know opinions might change. Mine did

Namikaze_17
11-11-2014, 01:32 AM
Is it really such a big deal if people like Connor or hate him? Love AC3 or hate AC3? The game is done there is no more content coming out for it. Seems as if you're trying to provoke a response and in all seriousness who cares what some random guy on Reddit has to say?

Anyway, I hated AC3 and Connor when the game came out because the game was a total letdown, the ridiculous Desmond sacrifice ending, poor mission design, and I didn't even get any of the glitches that people complained about, lastly Connor just flat out irritated me.

I replayed the game maybe a month ago and now I think that it's a solid game. It's definitely got flaws but playing it again 2 years removed from the immense feeling of disappointment I had, the game is tolerable. Combat is fun even if it's easy, parkour really isn't bad and I like the Boston and New York. The frontier is just flat out beautiful and is my absolute favorite game environment. And Connor has become my favorite Assassin. I even like the story despite how badly things ended for Connor (this coming from someone who hates bitter endings). The story simply was not executed properly. I think alot of people who disliked AC3 should give it another chance but approach it with a clear open mind. Who know opinions might change. Mine did

We need more members like you... :)

Hood2theBurbs
11-11-2014, 01:42 AM
Haha, thanks! Just decided to give my two cents is all.

Namikaze_17
11-11-2014, 01:50 AM
Of course...and your two cents are welcomed. :)

SpiritOfNevaeh
11-11-2014, 03:22 AM
Why is this a thread? Dx


Is it really such a big deal if people like Connor or hate him? Love AC3 or hate AC3? The game is done there is no more content coming out for it. Seems as if you're trying to provoke a response and in all seriousness who cares what some random guy on Reddit has to say?

Anyway, I hated AC3 and Connor when the game came out because the game was a total letdown, the ridiculous Desmond sacrifice ending, poor mission design, and I didn't even get any of the glitches that people complained about, lastly Connor just flat out irritated me.

I replayed the game maybe a month ago and now I think that it's a solid game. It's definitely got flaws but playing it again 2 years removed from the immense feeling of disappointment I had, the game is tolerable. Combat is fun even if it's easy, parkour really isn't bad and I like the Boston and New York. The frontier is just flat out beautiful and is my absolute favorite game environment. And Connor has become my favorite Assassin. I even like the story despite how badly things ended for Connor (this coming from someone who hates bitter endings). The story simply was not executed properly. I think alot of people who disliked AC3 should give it another chance but approach it with a clear open mind. Who know opinions might change. Mine did

Glad you gave it another chance as most people don't.

And people have changed their minds about the game itself after doing exactly what you did.

Proud of you :D

Hood2theBurbs
11-11-2014, 03:55 AM
Why is this a thread? Dx



Glad you gave it another chance as most people don't.

And people have changed their minds about the game itself after doing exactly what you did.

Proud of you :D

Thanks, I think as we as fans also need to be careful with franchise fatigue. I'd be lying if I said that it didn't play a part in my initial hate for AC3. It's amazing what a few years away from AC did for me. I played AC4 in July and enjoyed it quite a bit. Then catching up with all the ACU info got me hyped for the whole revolution idea and I decided to give AC3 another shot. Glad I did, no regrets :cool:

Also love your avatar, Alsoomse is my favorite MP character

SpiritOfNevaeh
11-11-2014, 04:11 AM
Thanks, I think as we as fans also need to be careful with franchise fatigue. I'd be lying if I said that it didn't play a part in my initial hate for AC3. It's amazing what a few years away from AC did for me. I played AC4 in July and enjoyed it quite a bit. Then catching up with all the ACU info got me hyped for the whole revolution idea and I decided to give AC3 another shot. Glad I did, no regrets :cool:

Also love your avatar, Alsoomse is my favorite MP character

Thanks! She IS awesome! ;D