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View Full Version : Suggestion: unlocking hide spots



SixKeys
10-27-2014, 09:58 PM
I was just thinking back to AC Revelations where they had the oddly random mechanic of unlocking wells as hiding spots by exploding the lid off with a bomb. It seems like it was meant to be an official challenge to unlock all of them eventually, but you don't get anything for unlocking all of them. Then it made me think about Unity where, for the first time in the series, Arno can't immediately blend with civilians by sitting on a bench. He has to learn that skill via the skill tree.

Maybe it's just coincidence that both games had the same creative director, but I couldn't help making the connection. Maybe ACR's wells were an early version of the idea of "unlockable" hide spots? Which made me think, what if this idea could be expanded further going forward? The assassin doesn't know how to blend in all the myriad ways right from the start, so maybe there could be different types of hiding mechanics, each of which would have to be unlocked and upgraded over time.

For example, you could have People as one type of hide spot. Level 1 would be static groups, where guards would be quick to spot you. Level 2 would be moving groups, where detection would be slower. Level 3 would be something like the AC3 escort mechanic, where other NPCs act as your bodyguards and help you get into high security areas.

The classic hay stacks and benches would be a separate branch and require higher levels. (Since you need to be pretty damn good at blending to be able to just sit down on a bench and not be noticed.)

Other possible branches could be hiding inside houses - like locking yourself into a warddrobe or bribing the house owners to nag at the guards until they leave - and hiding in shadows.

What do you think? Do you think hiding should be expanded as a skill of its own, without immediate ability to hide wherever you want?

oliacr
10-27-2014, 10:07 PM
I like the idea and I think yes it should be expanded as a skill of its own because you obviously had to learn those from somewhere like in AC2. With the system of Unity it could be used the way you explained. Good idea.

Sushiglutton
10-27-2014, 10:10 PM
I MUCH rather have it as a skill than unlocking 50 individual hidespots for starters lol.

Anyhow, yeah I like your idea. Hiding in plain site is a core assassin skill, so it seems logical it would be unlocked piece by piece to increase your opportunities in an area (would make replaying more interesting as well).


Another idea would be to unlock hidespots through the mod missions. Like you can pay a farmer to drive in with his cart of hay or something. Or perhaps steal a wardrobe key.

SixKeys
10-27-2014, 11:53 PM
Anyhow, yeah I like your idea. Hiding in plain site is a core assassin skill, so it seems logical it would be unlocked piece by piece to increase your opportunities in an area (would make replaying more interesting as well).

Oh yeah, I didn't even think about replays but you're right. The first time you play a mission there might be three haystacks with great opportunities in the area, but you can't use them until you've unlocked them. Another time you might unlock haystacks first and then conversely every other hide spot in the area becomes unusable. So you could potentially make the first playthrough of a particular mission different each time.

Ureh
10-28-2014, 07:12 PM
Yeah this is good but hopefully they put "tutorial" mission/cutscene before we unlock the specific skill. Like in AC2 Ezio learns climb-leap from Rosa and blending from Paola. Stuff like that.

It would be a bit weird if all we had to do was put some points into a skill and Arno can suddenly do it without being taught.

Fatal-Feit
10-28-2014, 07:18 PM
Yeah this is good but hopefully they put "tutorial" mission/cutscene before we unlock the specific skill. Like in AC2 Ezio learns climb-leap from Rosa and blending from Paola. Stuff like that.

It would be a bit weird if all we had to do was put some points into a skill and Arno can suddenly do it without being taught.

That or bring back AC:1/R's simulation tutorials. I loved those.

Sushiglutton
10-28-2014, 07:55 PM
Yeah this is good but hopefully they put "tutorial" mission/cutscene before we unlock the specific skill. Like in AC2 Ezio learns climb-leap from Rosa and blending from Paola. Stuff like that.

It would be a bit weird if all we had to do was put some points into a skill and Arno can suddenly do it without being taught.

That would defeat one of the main purposes of the skill point system (imo), which is to pull a lot of tutorial stuff out of the campaign. AC's campaigns have way, way too many tutorial missions in general, which becomes a drag. This is particulary true for a yearly franchise. A skill point system is a way to let the player teach himself.

LoyalACFan
10-28-2014, 09:06 PM
That would defeat one of the main purposes of the skill point system (imo), which is to pull a lot of tutorial stuff out of the campaign. AC's campaigns have way, way too many tutorial missions in general, which becomes a drag. This is particulary true for a yearly franchise. A skill point system is a way to let the player teach himself.

Eh, skill trees don't necessarily pull tutorials out of the game's main missions. Just look at Shadow of Mordor, the entire story is basically a tutorial for the nemesis system and branding, regardless of having like three individual skill trees.

Sushiglutton
10-28-2014, 09:34 PM
Eh, skill trees don't necessarily pull tutorials out of the game's main missions. Just look at Shadow of Mordor, the entire story is basically a tutorial for the nemesis system and branding, regardless of having like three individual skill trees.

The skill tree in SoM means several mechanics (the ones you unlock yourself) are not taught in the main campaign, so they have indeed been "pulled out". That doesn't mean that the campaign still can't be one long tutorial if there are enough other mechanics to teach. The skill point system just means you won't have to teach all of them in the campaign.

My hope for Unity is ofc that Ubi will fill the gap created by not having to teach these mechanics with something else than tutorials for other mechanics.

SixKeys
10-28-2014, 10:06 PM
I have no problem with entire games being basically one large tutorial, meaning the story is built around learning new skills all the way until the end. AC2 was a prime example of this, IMO. We were still learning new things (climb leap, hidden gun) when we got to Venice, and that was towards the end of the game. The tutorials were mostly woven into the story, instead of stopping the action every five seconds to pull you into some virtual simulation.

The climb leap is an example of a good tutorial: Rosa introduces you to the Thieves' Guild, an essential part of the story, and she actually explains how the climb leap works in a way that sounds natural and not just "Ezio, did you know you can press X to jump higher?". :p
The tutorial where Leonardo "teaches" you new hidden blade moves is a bad one. The story essentially comes to a halt while Ezio goes out into the backyard to train by himself and somehow immediately knows how to do do haystack or ledge assassinations without Leo being there to tell him the hidden blade can be used this way.

Yusuf's bomb tutorials in ACR were okay storywise, but there were too many of them. They should have been part of broader story missions, like "infiltrate so-and-so's palace and learn to use the poison bomb". The mission where you had to lure the Ottomans and Byzantines to attack each other was a fun one, they should have done more of those.

But now I've gone way off-topic. :p

Helforsite
10-28-2014, 10:20 PM
I love the idea of unlocking hiding spots and learning different methods of hiding and blending, but for unlocking hiding spots it shoul be something like unlocking hiding spots of a specific type in one district at a time and not each and every hiding spot manually. And the skills should be explained in sidemissions that somehow tie in to the main storyline, but should be unlockable before that. What I mean by that is that you can unlock the skill from the beginning, but in some point of the story(or a sidemission) you will have to to use this skill and it will be explained and shown to you before that.

cawatrooper9
10-28-2014, 11:29 PM
I've got to be honest- I haven't really looked too much into the skill trees yet. I actually don't even know what info is available yet, I didn't even know that blending on benches was a skill that had to be learned. But I'm very interested in seeing how this will play out in an AC game, and I like the idea of having stealth being something built upon over time like this.

LoyalACFan
10-28-2014, 11:42 PM
I have no problem with entire games being basically one large tutorial, meaning the story is built around learning new skills all the way until the end. AC2 was a prime example of this, IMO. We were still learning new things (climb leap, hidden gun) when we got to Venice, and that was towards the end of the game. The tutorials were mostly woven into the story, instead of stopping the action every five seconds to pull you into some virtual simulation.

The climb leap is an example of a good tutorial: Rosa introduces you to the Thieves' Guild, an essential part of the story, and she actually explains how the climb leap works in a way that sounds natural and not just "Ezio, did you know you can press X to jump higher?". :p
The tutorial where Leonardo "teaches" you new hidden blade moves is a bad one. The story essentially comes to a halt while Ezio goes out into the backyard to train by himself and somehow immediately knows how to do do haystack or ledge assassinations without Leo being there to tell him the hidden blade can be used this way.

Yusuf's bomb tutorials in ACR were okay storywise, but there were too many of them. They should have been part of broader story missions, like "infiltrate so-and-so's palace and learn to use the poison bomb". The mission where you had to lure the Ottomans and Byzantines to attack each other was a fun one, they should have done more of those.

But now I've gone way off-topic. :p

Tutorials being interspersed throughout the whole story is okay, but in Shadow of Mordor, literally every single mission is a tutorial. I've only got about three story missions left, and so far all the ones I've played have been basically nothing but tutorials except for one that was a boss fight. It REALLY hurt the story IMO; every level is essentially reduced to a character saying "here's how you do this!"

I agree with you about AC2's tutorials though. The all-game-long pacing of them was alright, but the execution of the tutorials themselves were often sketchy at best, e.g. the Leonardo invention ones.


The skill tree in SoM means several mechanics (the ones you unlock yourself) are not taught in the main campaign, so they have indeed been "pulled out". That doesn't mean that the campaign still can't be one long tutorial if there are enough other mechanics to teach. The skill point system just means you won't have to teach all of them in the campaign.

My hope for Unity is ofc that Ubi will fill the gap created by not having to teach these mechanics with something else than tutorials for other mechanics.

I wasn't a fan of the implementation though. The skill tree is all well and good, until you hit a much-desired power that arbitrarily forces you to complete a tutorial mission to unlock it, which may be several missions down the road. I can teach myself to turn into a wraith and fly onto the back of a vicious beast from 100 feet away, but I need some random soldier guy to teach me how to stick poison in a grog barrel? Really? I think the skill tree would have been perfectly sufficient to teach ALL of the skills, so the story missions could focus more on actual plot development and creating unique, memorable situations that couldn't be replicated via free open-world play.

I don't want to make it sound like I'm totally down on Shadow of Mordor; it's actually a really fun game. I just feel like the campaign was a completely throwaway framework for the admittedly awesome nemesis system. I don't think I've ever cared less about a AAA game's story.

Helforsite
10-29-2014, 12:58 AM
Am I the only one that thinks the skill tree of Shadow Of Mordor is a bad example because it maid you totally overpowered?

Locopells
10-29-2014, 02:02 AM
*made*

And yeah, a little - but then it makes it worth the grind to get all the points...

LoyalACFan
10-29-2014, 06:24 PM
Am I the only one that thinks the skill tree of Shadow Of Mordor is a bad example because it maid you totally overpowered?

I mean, it was kind of supposed to though. I got my *** kicked several times trying to take on high-level captains early in the game, and it was awesome to be able to level up, come back and just totally destroy them.

Dome500
10-30-2014, 07:04 PM
I didn't read all of the posts so forgive me if that was already said, but I have a strong feeling that hiding in plain sight, in crowds or static hiding spots will be more dynamic and will also have a lot to do with the outfits you wear. According to the info we got from Ubi there seems to be gear and outfits (especially hood, etc.) which increase your ability to blend in due to looking more alike to your surroundings. Maybe this is also part of why some players will be able to hide in specific spots while others will not be able.

TheArcaneEagle
10-30-2014, 07:22 PM
Would be great to see Arno progress from a noble into a Master Assassin with the help of progressive skills. I do not want another game where as soon as you play as the character he already knows how to fight, climb and everything else that he could do as an assassin. It just makes it feel like he had no training as an assassin.