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View Full Version : What is your opinion about the "assassination only with the hidden blade" issue?



topeira1980
10-16-2014, 11:34 AM
hi guys.

i find this issue about whether we must assassinate targets with the hidden blade only or not a pretty small one but it started such an interesting debate on these forums with two polarized opinions that i couldnt resist making a poll about it.

original debate:
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/932002-Assassinations-HAVE-to-be-performed-with-a-Hidden-Blade-in-AC-Unity

we must note that this isnt confirmed and we dont know if it's true. this poll is mostly about the approach to gameplay in general, gameplay in AC games and approach to open ended objectives versus choosing what is more challenging.

So the question is - What is your opinion about ACU forcing the player to assassinate the main targets with HB and not with any other weapon?

Upadte from 11.9.2014:
OK, after watching some playthroughs i can solve this conundrum - if you kill the main assassination target in a weapon that isnt the HB (like a pistol) you have to come to the body and finish him off. then you get a cutscene.

LoyalACFan
10-16-2014, 11:44 AM
It just seems contrived and excessively restrictive IMO. If I want to shoot him in the face from the rafters, well, why shouldn't I? It's an easy kill, with the trade-off being instant detection (instead of being able to sneak out after the confessional kill). Seems balanced enough to me. Arbitrarily saying "oh, you must use this one particular weapon!" is just a poor excuse to add more challenge without really trying.

Although my personal theory is that Arno needs to get close enough to actually collect the blood of his targets so he can review their memories in the little flashback scene (perhaps with the help of the pocket watch, which is still possibly a POE). Even though that's still a bad excuse for making us use the hidden blade; Ezio and Connor were able to interview their targets face to face even if they killed them from a dozen yards away.

SixKeys
10-16-2014, 11:55 AM
I've always used the hidden blade anyway, even in AC3 and AC4 where the default weapon was something else (tomahawk and swords). I'm happy with the change as it should make level design more interesting and force players to get close to the target.


Even though that's still a bad excuse for making us use the hidden blade; Ezio and Connor were able to interview their targets face to face even if they killed them from a dozen yards away.

Which was always stupid as hell.

Farlander1991
10-16-2014, 12:08 PM
I would like to note that there seems to be a differentiation between 'Assassinate' objective and 'Kill' objective. 'Assassinate' is the Hidden Blade-centric one and, at least I think so, is applied only to main targets. While 'Kill' means that you can dispatch the target any way you like.

I'm fine with this as long as the Hidden Blade restriction isn't something forced like, 'you can't press the trigger if you target the person with a pistol'. If other means lead to a change of a scenario (like open combat or chase), or if when you shoot the target you have to get close to finish it off with the hidden blade, then I'm fine with this, honestly.

dxsxhxcx
10-16-2014, 03:10 PM
I would like to note that there seems to be a differentiation between 'Assassinate' objective and 'Kill' objective. 'Assassinate' is the Hidden Blade-centric one and, at least I think so, is applied only to main targets. While 'Kill' means that you can dispatch the target any way you like.

I'm fine with this as long as the Hidden Blade restriction isn't something forced like, 'you can't press the trigger if you target the person with a pistol'. If other means lead to a change of a scenario (like open combat or chase), or if when you shoot the target you have to get close to finish it off with the hidden blade, then I'm fine with this, honestly.

I think instead of take away the freedom of approach from the player, they should "force" us to be at a certain distance from the target to do any kind of assassination because IMO it's weird as hell to use a long range weapon being far away from our target and suddenly be teleported next to him/her to hear his/her last words.

or maybe only trigger the "last words" moment when we are next to the target (this would be better)

Farlander1991
10-16-2014, 03:16 PM
I think instead of take away the freedom of approach from the player, they should "force" us to be at a certain distance from the target to do any kind of assassination because IMO it's weird as hell to use a long range weapon being far away from our target and suddenly be teleported next to him/her to hear his/her last words.

Well, "shoot/poison/axe throw/anyotherrangedformofattack from any distance and then get close to finish with the hidden blade" is a more elegant solution in my opinion. All ranged options are still available, no arbitrary constraints are applied (i.e., no change of range of weapons, no removing reticule, no removing button functionality), and yet we still have to (eventually, since maybe we want to deal with some part of the chaos that possibly ensued first) get in close for both the white room and the new Arno assassination mind-reading thing make sense.

TheArcaneEagle
10-16-2014, 04:34 PM
I love the limitation of the assassination. Makes sense to use the Hidden Blade to assassinate somebody. Feels iconic to the assassins and give the weapon some purpose. Although I'm unsure about how they would do it. Will it just desync when you kill them by any other means?

Sushiglutton
10-16-2014, 04:38 PM
I think this is perfectly fine. HB is by far the coolest way to perform assassinations anyway. It has always felt like a failure to me when I've done it some other way (well except the carnivale assassination I suppose).

DumbGamerTag94
10-16-2014, 04:51 PM
It doesn't bother me at all because in the previous games it was usually if not always evident from the white room cutscene the manner in which your target was killed. 90% of the time being hidden blade.

I personally always tried to use the hidden blade. Unless it was a target that very obviously was not killed by one.

For example I always shoot Edward Braddock. Because when it goes to the white room he is feeling on the ground clutching his chest or shoulder. Turning around to see Haytham approaching him with his pistol out. Haythams distance, the way Braddock is reacting, and Haytham holding a pistol. VERY STRONGLY suggests Braddock was shot(which is also historically correct). Therefore when I play. I shoot him.

Megas_Doux
10-16-2014, 05:01 PM
Not bothered by it, at all.

MnemonicSyntax
10-16-2014, 05:23 PM
Why couldn't this stay in the original thread?

Cloud87Strife
10-16-2014, 06:04 PM
I love using the hidden blade. through out all the AC games, that is my primary weapon. I rarely use the sword or short short. Whether stealthy or straight combat.

cawatrooper9
10-16-2014, 06:51 PM
Honestly, I always though some of the contextual kills were silly. Sure, running through someone with a sword was always satisfying, but I wasn't a fan of the unarmed "kills"- and even worse were the "bump" kills. So, in a way, I'm kind of glad that we're back to only using hidden blade for stealth.

Hans684
10-16-2014, 07:51 PM
Not bothered but I'd like more options.

aznassassin159
10-16-2014, 09:52 PM
On one hand, I'm totally okay with it. I always used the hidden blade in past AC games, even in combat. After the past few titles allowed you to take the easy way out and kill your targets through guns and darts, it'll be nice to have to go back to the old-school way of doing things and bring back the challenge.

On the other hand, this completely undermines the freedom of choice which Ubisoft has been faffing on about since day one. I can imagine someone decked out in armor and wielding a giant spear getting super miffed about that mandate.

VitoAuditore
10-16-2014, 10:07 PM
the first thing that comes to mind for me is the aerial assassinations. i always wondered how the hell edward didnt pierce himself if he jumped like 10 meters to impale someone with his swords. same with axe/spear/muskets, the assassin would need alot of room to not break anything on that jump, which is alot easier if you have a short blade instead of something 1-1.5 meters long.

GoldenBoy9999
10-17-2014, 01:43 AM
I'm glad we can't just shoot our target with a poison dart, but I also don't like the limitation. I think if someone wants to use a rifle they should be able to, but Ubisoft should tell us they geared the game toward kills with the HB for people that don't know.

cawatrooper9
10-17-2014, 01:48 AM
I'm glad we can't just shoot our target with a poison dart, but I also don't like the limitation. I think if someone wants to use a rifle they should be able to, but Ubisoft should tell us they geared the game toward kills with the HB for people that don't know.

I could be wrong, but I think this is only referring to melee stealth attacks- you can't use your sword for stealth anymore, for instance. I think ranged stealth kills are still possible (after all, it would be silly to call it the "phantom blade" if the crossbow couldn't be used stealthily).

M0nsterSkillz
10-17-2014, 02:59 AM
Makes the mission/assassination much more interesting using the hidden blade only, it's always been my favorite weapon in AC, since the first AC with Altair.

rrebe
10-17-2014, 04:47 PM
In previous games I always tried to use the hidden blade every assassination whenever possible, so this probably isn't really going to affect my gaming experience. But I do understand that for some it could be a problem.

Hans684
10-17-2014, 05:28 PM
To explain it simple, it's like making a Hitman game and saying you can only assassinate with one weapon that is made for a single purpose.

SlyTrooper
10-17-2014, 05:42 PM
Like I have said previously, I believe that Arno will automatically switch to the hidden blade in combat if the target is vulnerable to deal the final blow. This means it doesn't stop you from playing the way you want if prefer to fight. I'm not sure about shooting the target, though. Only a lazy person would want to do that anyway. :)

SixKeys
10-17-2014, 05:56 PM
Like I have said previously, I believe that Arno will automatically switch to the hidden blade in combat if the target is vulnerable to deal the final blow. This means it doesn't stop you from playing the way you want if prefer to fight. I'm not sure about shooting the target, though. Only a lazy person would want to do that anyway. :)

I did that with the final target in AC4.

I thought it was stupid that Edward would use the rope dart to assassinate Roberts when he could just shoot him from the deck of his own ship.

GunnerGalactico
10-17-2014, 08:29 PM
This doesn't really alter my playing style in any way. I've used hidden blades for air assassinations and stealth kills since AC1, right up to ACR. It was only in AC3 and AC4 that I had used a tomahawk or dual swords to perform assassinations. I feel it is a good thing that we are going back to hidden blades (only) for assassinations.

JustPlainQuirky
10-17-2014, 08:33 PM
Bah, IDC at this point.

So many bad design decisions in this game already.

Unity is really looking bad in my eyes right now.

Only thing Im looking forward to is the enhanced parkour, seamless window transitions, Elise and........eh....yeah i guess thats it

co-op, murder mysteries and customizations are a maybe for me

forced initiates, forced companion app, graphics cap, modern day being replaced by cyberspace, and possible Aiden Pierce 2.0 really turn me off.

so this is just one more thing to add to the pile of bad news for me.

Fatal-Feit
10-17-2014, 08:53 PM
Aiden Pierce 2.0 really turn me off.

Having only played 1-2 hours of story missions in Watch_Dogs and a few dozen hours of absolute rampage of the game's open-world, I found Aiden Pierce to be a great character. Sorry for being off-topic, but what detracted from his character later on? I mean, did the writing start to suck? I absolutely loved what they did with him, at least from what I've played. His character seemed cool and unique, being the complete control freak and all. --I absolutely loved how it translated into both the whole hacking concept and his relationships.

It felt like Dexter Morgan with hacking powers.

TheHumanTowel
10-17-2014, 08:59 PM
It's not like AC hasn't had far more linear assassinations than this restriction. It was hardly Hitman. Killing targets at range is far too easy to do from a safe vantage point from which it's simple to escape. The hidden blade forces you to get close to your target and weigh the risk of killing your target but leaving yourself open and vunerable. Could be a good decision if they design the levels accordingly.

Hans684
10-17-2014, 09:01 PM
Having only played 1-2 hours of story missions in Watch_Dogs and a few dozen hours of absolute rampage of the game's open-world, I found Aiden Pierce to be a great character. Sorry for being off-topic, but what detracted from his character later on? I mean, did the writing start to suck? I absolutely loved what they did with him, at least from what I've played. His character seemed cool and unique, being the complete control freak and all. --I absolutely loved how it translated into both the whole hacking concept and his relationships.

It felt like Dexter Morgan with hacking powers.

They did say he was inspired by Dexter and Batman but he is more a Dexter than Batman.

SlyTrooper
10-17-2014, 09:02 PM
Bah, IDC at this point.

So many bad design decisions in this game already.

Unity is really looking bad in my eyes right now.

Only thing Im looking forward to is the enhanced parkour, seamless window transitions, Elise and........eh....yeah i guess thats it

co-op, murder mysteries and customizations are a maybe for me

forced initiates, forced companion app, graphics cap, modern day being replaced by cyberspace, and possible Aiden Pierce 2.0 really turn me off.

so this is just one more thing to add to the pile of bad news for me.

I feel that you are trying to discredit Unity to make Rogue seem more appealing.

JustPlainQuirky
10-17-2014, 09:08 PM
I feel that you are trying to discredit Unity to make Rogue seem more appealing.

nah. i admit most of the reasons I like Rogue are solely based on personal taste.

And Rogue has no excuse to be so recycled. No excuse for 6 sequences and repeat music either

And Rogue's MD will prolly be as bad as Black Flag's

Regardless of my stance on Rogue, I still am not liking Unity so far.

SlyTrooper
10-17-2014, 11:36 PM
nah. i admit most of the reasons I like Rogue are solely based on personal taste.

And Rogue has no excuse to be so recycled. No excuse for 6 sequences and repeat music either

And Rogue's MD will prolly be as bad as Black Flag's

Regardless of my stance on Rogue, I still am not liking Unity so far.

Fair enough. I have one simple question, though. Do you like stealth? If you don't, maybe that's why Unity doesn't appeal to you.

JustPlainQuirky
10-18-2014, 12:09 AM
I'm not a big stealth fan, no.

Though I do like Dishonored if that counts for anything.

SlyTrooper
10-18-2014, 02:38 AM
I'm not a big stealth fan, no.

Though I do like Dishonored if that counts for anything.

Did you just murder everyone in Dishonored? Personally, I found doing that very boring.

JustPlainQuirky
10-18-2014, 02:47 AM
Did you just murder everyone in Dishonored? Personally, I found doing that very boring.

No I did low chaos.

but I havent beaten the game yet

havent had time to play steam games in a while

topeira1980
10-18-2014, 01:11 PM
Fair enough. I have one simple question, though. Do you like stealth? If you don't, maybe that's why Unity doesn't appeal to you.

i wasnt the target of this question by me, personaly, i love combat and action. i also love stealth but i like using stealth to get around combat i cant handle frontally. so in dishonored i usually killed some guys quitely and when i only had to deal with about 2 or 3 enemies i'd go full out sword chopping.

and BECAUSE i love combat i hate ACIV. and AC3. combat in those games is horrible. amazingly horrbile. it's by far the worse combat system i've seen in a game. you have rope darts, guns, bombs, hidden daggers, stealth, disarms, better weapons and upgrades.... the whole nine yards, yet all you need is "counter+attack attack attack". there is no need for any of the tools or stealth the game DOES give you because combat is so simple and so horrible unbalanced and mind numbing. i constantly found myself thinking about real life or the conversations i was having during playing when i had combat in ACIV. i just didnt need any bit of concentration in the game. i just B, X and B, X until it was over, with the occasional A, X against heavy men. unbelievable.

and because i love combat i am excited about AC. combat here actually looks FUN! mainly because the AI seems competent. i've seen the enemies sometimes parry arno and counter him or roll away. that's something that almost no game does. it's not just a step forward for AC but for action in games in general. yes, AC1 also had enemies that could do that but there were other reasons AC1's combat was too easy and one-dimensional.

i am a stealth fan only when it's an option. not when its mandatory. i prefer action about 70% of the time and in UNITY action looks like fun. finally worth the while.

Dag_B
10-18-2014, 01:19 PM
I do not love or hate it because I never played it. Could turn out to work well, could turn out to be extremly restrictive.

But it makes sense since they removed the white room and say that Arno sees just some memory of the target, probably they will state, that it is the contact with the blood or something that triggers these memorys and makes them visible to Arno. So it makes sense, that we have to use the blade, so we can see the memories.

dxsxhxcx
10-18-2014, 01:20 PM
And Rogue has no excuse to be so recycled. No excuse for 6 sequences and repeat music either

of course it has, yearly releases/parallel development/ACU and the next (2?) AC game(s) that probably is (are) being developed as well send their regards.. :)

RinoTheBouncer
10-18-2014, 01:52 PM
I think we were never given much freedom in AC. It was all an illusion, structured to make you feel free but in reality, you’re going on the same linear path, same conclusion, same cutscene, same everything Yes, the world is open and you can choose to do side missions before main missions, but you can’t do main missions one after or before the other and you can’t really follow different paths. Whether you choose to go above the building and air assassinate or walk among the crowd or dancers and assassinate. Imagine it as one wide road rather than a narrow street and buildings, will it really count as a separate path if you walk on the right or the left? Not really.

The cutscene will always be the same even if you killed the target in a different way, so I don’t call that freedom. The outcome didn’t change and you can’t really go very far when you’re tailing someone and you have to stay in the zone, it’s just one way and one conclusion, so I don’t really think that this hidden blades-only thing is very different. It only shattered the illusion of choice that the games gave most fans, that’s all.

Example on the illusion of choice:

Do not be detected -----> you should not be seen nor use any gadgets that make you detectable -----> and since some weapons don’t always kill from the first shot, you have to use the gadgets that don’t make you suspicious and also kill in an instant with no second trials -----> forcing you to use a certain weapon (or two).

So I find this “Use only Hidden Blades” is pretty much the same, just more literal.

topeira1980
10-18-2014, 03:13 PM
I think we were never given much freedom in AC. It was all an illusion, structured to make you feel free but in reality, you’re going on the same linear path, same conclusion, same cutscene, same everything Yes, the world is open and you can choose to do side missions before main missions, but you can’t do main missions one after or before the other and you can’t really follow different paths. Whether you choose to go above the building and air assassinate or walk among the crowd or dancers and assassinate. Imagine it as one wide road rather than a narrow street and buildings, will it really count as a separate path if you walk on the right or the left? Not really.

The cutscene will always be the same even if you killed the target in a different way, so I don’t call that freedom. The outcome didn’t change and you can’t really go very far when you’re tailing someone and you have to stay in the zone, it’s just one way and one conclusion, so I don’t really think that this hidden blades-only thing is very different. It only shattered the illusion of choice that the games gave most fans, that’s all.

Example on the illusion of choice:

Do not be detected -----> you should not be seen nor use any gadgets that make you detectable -----> and since some weapons don’t always kill from the first shot, you have to use the gadgets that don’t make you suspicious and also kill in an instant with no second trials -----> forcing you to use a certain weapon (or two).

So I find this “Use only Hidden Blades” is pretty much the same, just more literal.

sadly this is true in almost all open world games.

GTA is also like that even to a greter extent. mafia was even more linear than that with a pointless open world with nothing to do in it. watch dogs had some missions that were somewhat open in the size and shape of the environments but still linear in nature. saints row was somewhat more open.

saboteur had a nice open world and missions, relatively. just cause was open. shadow of mordor is open. prototype was pretty open....

sadly most open world games are linear games in an open world environment.

Loki Will Rule
10-18-2014, 03:22 PM
I actually prefer the idea of only being able to assassinate with the HB, I like how Unity is bringing in more stealth elements.

topeira1980
10-19-2014, 07:43 AM
Example on the illusion of choice:

Do not be detected -----> you should not be seen nor use any gadgets that make you detectable -----> and since some weapons don’t always kill from the first shot, you have to use the gadgets that don’t make you suspicious and also kill in an instant with no second trials -----> forcing you to use a certain weapon (or two).

So I find this “Use only Hidden Blades” is pretty much the same, just more literal.

actually "use only HB" is a lot less restrictive. you CAN get detected, only make the last kill with th HB. since you CAN kill with the HB when you ARE seen it is far less restrictive.

jayjay275
10-19-2014, 03:23 PM
To me, I'm not affected by this. I enjoy being stealthy and plan to be majorly leaned toward stealth in Unity, so this doesn't matter to me. :D

dimbismp
10-19-2014, 07:24 PM
I suppose we cannot use the HB in combat,can we?
Even though it looks completely badass it certainly stupid to fight with a low range blade that cannot protect you well enough and can break at any moment.

topeira1980
11-09-2014, 12:04 PM
OK, after watching some playthroughs i can solve this conundrum - if you kill the main assassination target in a weapon that isnt the HB (like a pistol) you have to come to the body and finish him off. then you get a cutscene.

GoldenBoy9999
11-09-2014, 01:25 PM
OK, after watching some playthroughs i can solve this conundrum - if you kill the main assassination target in a weapon that isnt the HB (like a pistol) you have to come to the body and finish him off. then you get a cutscene.

Thanks so much for the info. I think this is the way a lot of us hoped it would be.

topeira1980
11-09-2014, 04:44 PM
Thanks so much for the info. I think this is the way a lot of us hoped it would be.

i started this thread and felt it's my responsibility to bring this important info. i should update the post on page 1 too.... :P
i agree its the best way to do this.
i've seen the player in a playthrough shoot the target with a pistol from afar, draw the guards away from the incapacitated corps and go back to the corpse to finish him off.... and then into a really frantic escape from 10 guards that chased him all around. and that was after being killed 4 times trying to do the mission in different ways. i loved what i saw.

Farlander1991
11-09-2014, 04:58 PM
Called it! :p :D
I find that to be a good solution, as it allows you to dispatch the target the way you want, yet still have the hidden blade kill for story purposes. Thanks for the info!

Pr0metheus 1962
11-09-2014, 05:11 PM
I would be upset about it if the game had forced us to use only the hidden blade for assassinations. I personally use the hidden blade pretty much all the time, but that doesn't mean I would want to be forced to do things that way, and I'd feel really bad for those who may not have enjoyed using the hidden blade, because I understand that it's not all about what I want (I wish some other players would have the courtesy to understand that too). This game is supposed to be all about the freedom, so I'm glad that this turns out to have been a misunderstanding.