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KagenoTatsumaki
10-11-2014, 09:08 PM
I figured that this might be ok for a first topic lol.

So I was just looking on YT for any new AC:U gameplay videos and happened across this one here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR8ymWDQ1-I

One minute in they try to go in through the front door to Notre Dame and, Alex Amancio was not lying when he said it'd be suicide lol.
I know some people are still interested in seeing if combat really is any harder and from this is certainly seems like it. Hope you guys enjoy!

Reaper-59
10-11-2014, 09:16 PM
Damn, every time I see more of the fighting in this game I get more excited. It looks a hell of a lot better too me.

MontrossXGMR
10-11-2014, 09:41 PM
I am looking forward to the new combat system myself. However I am worried that it potentially may be too hard and frustrating and take some of the fun out of the game. I can potentially see this as a future complaint when people start playing the game. But overall it seems to be a step in the right direction for combat in AC.

RinoTheBouncer
10-11-2014, 09:44 PM
Honestly, I don’t care about easy or hard combat, I play AC games for the story. I couldn’t care less for the combat or the multiplayer or the weapons. But this looks pretty nice.

king-hailz
10-11-2014, 09:46 PM
Looks good.

robinthefactory
10-11-2014, 09:52 PM
Did anyone see Arno get stabbed by the guard?!?

KagenoTatsumaki
10-11-2014, 10:05 PM
Yep. It seems that there's a killing blow type of animation that shows Arno getting impaled by swords. It's pretty freaking sweet!

dxsxhxcx
10-11-2014, 10:15 PM
I'm skeptical, the player seemed a bit lost after he died what lead me to believe that he might not be an experienced AC player, Arno also lost a lot of health each time he was hit and to be honest I really doubt Ubisoft would make the player dies this easily in the final game, it took them 5 games to finally do something about combat but I doubt the changes they made will be this agressive...

and what's the matter with all those icons around Arno? I really hope we can turn that off..

ps: the parkour animations are really cool though...

Zrvan
10-11-2014, 11:56 PM
Important thing to remember: most videos that get posted of gameplay are either highly scripted demos played by the people who made the game, or, and I can't stress this enough, unskilled or rusty players taking it out for a spin for the first time.

I would be willing to bet you money that the combat in ACU is just like the combat in every AC game -- difficult at first, but by the middle of the game you'll waltz untouched through armies, so long as you understand basic QTE theory.

dxsxhxcx
10-12-2014, 12:56 AM
I would be willing to bet you money that the combat in ACU is just like the combat in every AC game -- difficult at first, but by the middle of the game you'll waltz untouched through armies, so long as you understand basic QTE theory.

second sequence (if play AC games every year)

pacmanate
10-12-2014, 02:24 AM
Good, I think combat might be harder too that pressing dodge whilst attacking wont cancel the attack like in past games.


In past games, you could attack, and halfway through that attack could change to counter. If they got rid of this mechanic and you have to see the whole button input through (Whole attack animation, whole dodge), firstly it makes more sense and secondly that makes it harder in itself.

naumaan
10-12-2014, 06:47 AM
I am looking forward to the new combat system myself. However I am worried that it potentially may be too hard and frustrating and take some of the fun out of the game. I can potentially see this as a future complaint when people start playing the game. But overall it seems to be a step in the right direction for combat in AC.

if you have played ac1 you ll know how hard it was to fight, i had to plan my path so that i may never land in the combat zone in front of the prying because whenever i landed in between them, i found myself dead, that made assassins creed 1 fun to play ... i am happy they are coming back to it ..

TheArcaneEagle
10-12-2014, 12:19 PM
Important thing to remember: most videos that get posted of gameplay are either highly scripted demos played by the people who made the game, or, and I can't stress this enough, unskilled or rusty players taking it out for a spin for the first time.

I would be willing to bet you money that the combat in ACU is just like the combat in every AC game -- difficult at first, but by the middle of the game you'll waltz untouched through armies, so long as you understand basic QTE theory.

The sad truth.

SlyTrooper
10-12-2014, 03:04 PM
I imagine the combat will be easy when fighting a few of the lesser grunts, but it will be quite difficult when fighting a lot of them or fighting the stronger enemies. Even if it isn't as hard as they promised, it will at least be hard enough that you probably won't want to do it. Also, the combat in general looks really fun. There's a lot of weight behind each move & I think that just makes it more satisfying.

I wouldn't use this video as proof about anything, though. The guy playing has no idea what he is doing. It's obvious by the way he just runs through the crowd & gets stuck next to walls. Also, is it just me or do people who are bad at the game manage to make it glitch more? They always approach everything in the wrong way, causing everything to get broken. This also shows that that build had a lot of bugs. I hope this has been fixed by this point; I don't want to see a glitch every 5 seconds of playing.

topeira1980
10-12-2014, 03:15 PM
im gonna post this here since it seems related, and hopefuly this thread wont get merged into none-combat-related threads:

here are some of my thoughts about the combat from this video, taken from the BRAZIL GAME SHOW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHeLf5xHEAA
big thanks to member m4r-k7 for posting this video on the previews thread :)

1) enemies have dots over their heads. in the BGS vid all enemies haveeither 1 or 2 out of 5 dots. what is that? could this be the level of the enemy? tougher enemies will have 5? i hope so.

which also brings the question - how do tougher enemies different from low level enemies?
my hopes is not just bigger health bars or more damage but also more complicated AI, such as a higher probability to counter and parry and dodge.

2) in the first (7 minutes) BGS video the player fights 5 enemies and kills them all pretty easily. granted all enemies had 2 dots max so if these dots symbolizes their level than we can only hope that higher ranked AIs will be tougher.
personally i dont mind that sometimes you'll face larger (around 5 enemies) groups and kill them all. once in a while its fun to feel like a total badass that can kill larger groups.... but i do hope that for the most parts combat will be tougher than this!...

3) parries no longer reduce enemy's health. that's good. like in batman\shadow of mordor. you HAVE to attack in order to kill. being defensive is no longer a way to win. we've been told this but i was still worried.

4) enemies are no longer predictable binary AIs?! - in the video we can see the player's target is to kill the guy at 5:10. the target seems to fight better than the others. he still has these 2 dots over his head yet he fights better than the other 2 dots soldiers. maybe these dots are not enemy skill?
anyways, this target way of defending himself is no longer either always block or never block, like in previous games. he blocks at the beginning, counters arno, forcing him to roll away, he also rolls out of arnos way and in the end he takes three hits and die.
this is a great move forward IMO.
i hope im right in this point because it's the most important thing i got from these videos. in every other AC game (much like in batman:arkham or shadow of mordor for example) enemies are 100% predictable. they ALWAYS do the same thing when you attack them or when they attack you. in a 1 on 1 combat they can never suprise you and if you know how to defeat them there is no way you can fail if you do the proper combat moves.
however in this case there is a chance that enemies have a CHANCE of doing VARIOUS moves so even in a 1 on 1 combat there is a chance you might get damaged if you dont pay attention.
i can only hope that tough higher level enemies in a group are really hard when you have to judge all of their reactions.

5) health doesnt regenerate! thank god finally. even the separate segments of the health don't regen. awesome. finally we will need medicine.
the big question now is - does the final and last segment of health DOES regen? will arno also have a grace period when his health reaches zero?
because in pervious AC games i could finish an entire mission on this last health segment alone. i'd get to zero health but it was easy enough to hold on for 3 seconds untill it regenerated back to 1....
now it looks like zero means dead!

6) now that i look again it seems like ARNO also has these 5 dots over his health bar.... strange...

p.s. - sometimes i dont know who's more stupid - the AI or the human I -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR8koh4Osr8

p.p.s - here's another hard to figure out combat piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQCDbEuKzL8#t=160


after watching all these combat videos i come to think that it's not that combat is hard. im currently playing RYSE:SON OF ROME and i kinda feel like combat in RYSE is a lot like it will be in ACU. it's not that combat in RYSE is THAT hard as much as it is NOT like as forgiving as in the past AC games.
someone said it in another thread and i think he might be right - combat will be a little hard at first because we are so coustomed to the incredibly shallow and forgiving AC combat but once you get use to no going crazy and being a little more orginized than you can get through a lot of combat easily.

i actually hope im wrong. i want SLYTROOPER here to be right - that fighting multiple higher ranked enemies WILL be hard enough that it takes some of your health down and eventually you WILL walk around the rest of the mission with very little health and medicin so you HAVE to be stealthy or run away from combat.

Reaper-59
10-12-2014, 03:25 PM
Arghhhh. I've got to stop watching these videos.

Kakuzu745
10-12-2014, 04:51 PM
Fantastic...this was one of my big concerns...I hated dumbed down combat. Great to see it seems that you actually need to have some skill to pull a fight with more than 10+ guards.

I know AC is not necessarily about combat but boarding a man o´war by myself without taking any damage was kind of boring for me.

I really hope Unity is more challenging than some of its predecessors.

m4r-k7
10-12-2014, 06:12 PM
The combat definitely looks harder and more fun as you actually have proper swordfights with your opponents.

But

The guy said that apart from fixing the bugs, the delay is to balance the difficulty. Hopefully this difficulty is here to stay, but I won't be suprised if they make it a bit easier by release.

andreycvetov
10-12-2014, 08:14 PM
Hope difficulty doesn't break the flow of the combat . Off-topic ,gravity in unity seems strange

Xangr8
10-12-2014, 08:19 PM
This game is going right for the original AC feel. Like how I preferred to avoid the guards during assassinations which was not the same until AC4. Cause the combat was definitely harder in AC1 x)

topeira1980
10-12-2014, 08:26 PM
The guy said that apart from fixing the bugs, the delay is to balance the difficulty. Hopefully this difficulty is here to stay, but I won't be suprised if they make it a bit easier by release.

oh dear.... :(

UBi has always been so proud of how most ppl who play AC also finish the game because it's easy....
if they are tweaking the difficulty i can only assume they are making it easier and easier :(

if i can refrain from upgrading the armor and health and keep arno fragile and the game - hard , than i dont mind. i just hope that if not upgrading armor the game indeed becomes challenging. i NEVER upgraded armor in any AC game (besides ac1 where it was mandatory) and still all AC games were ridiculously easy.
AC1 was also pi$$ easy - combat was deeper but the game forced like bazillion health chunks on you so even if you sucked at combat altair was stilla bloody terminator so what's the point?

this time around i have faith this wont be the case because health doesnt regenerate and there are no more counter-kills.... but UBI with their desire to make AC "accessible" is capable of anything....

i cant understand why they really really dont want to incorporate difficulty settings in AC. i just dont get it.

SlyTrooper
10-12-2014, 08:53 PM
I like combat being harder. Even though I will use stealth either way, it is nice to have a reason to do it. In ACIV I was always stealthy when possible because I liked the satisfaction of killing everyone silently. When I got into combat in ACIV I was just bored. Unity looks like it will be fun to get into a fight, but also challenging so that I don't want to. That is the best balance.

Kakuzu745
10-12-2014, 09:01 PM
The guy said that apart from fixing the bugs, the delay is to balance the difficulty. Hopefully this difficulty is here to stay, but I won't be suprised if they make it a bit easier by release.

Please please do not say that :P

GoldenBoy9999
10-12-2014, 10:54 PM
Even if combat is easier than we expected there's still hope. From the looks of combat in these videos, it seems as though you won't want to get in combat since it's slower than previous games because of the lack of counter kill and kill chain. If you're stealthing around trying to assassinate a target you won't want to break into combat with all the guards.

As Sly said, combat does look fun and elegant with all the new moves and the new tech.

topeira1980
10-20-2014, 09:27 AM
trying to analyze more combat from this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk_m6qeOQng#t=665
the tiny bit of combat is in THIS point in time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk_m6qeOQng#t=665

it seem like arno is attacked by two guards (11:09) and the first one hits him 2 times in a row but then arno seems to DEFLECT the third attack yet the enemy keeps pushing forward and hits him a third time still.
i deduct that the player was hit twice and then held GUARD instead of TAPPED parry so guarding perhaps is broken after one hit that is successfully blocked? does this mean you cant hold guard forever and be safe from all attacks, like in other AC games? (i hated how i can just hold guard and no one can touch me in most AC versions. in most of them guards didnt do guard break, forcing you to adapt. they just tried to attack. only AC1 had such depth. funny how UBI went backwards when it comes to combat)
this doesnt seem the case necessarily in the previous video i posted on page 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHeLf5xHEAA#t=317) - there the target counters arno, arno rolls away and the target attacks him again. arno defends himself by deflecting the incoming blow but this isnt a counter\parry since he doesnt deflect then punches\kicks. he just parrys the sword and the enemy rolls away.
so this reinforces the thought there is a passive guard and active parry, like in previous AC games but unlike Shadow of mordor\batman\Ryse where there is only parry\counter. i wonder if you GUARD and deflect an attack and attack back but the enemy continues attacking you if you necessarily get hit before hitting the AI... i hope so. it will "deepen" the concept of GUARD vs PARRY.

if all of my thought are true than it looks like even rather easy opponents in ACU will be fun to fight and combat will be more engaging and no more mind-numbing affair, and mainly because the AI has more options. not because arno is more capable. it's the AI that seems to do the difference and it's about time UBI understands this.

anyone else noticed something cool that i didnt? :-P

GoldenBoy9999
10-20-2014, 01:27 PM
^

Thanks for that. The combat looks pretty good so far. I just hope these people playing it have some AC experience before, because if not they just may be bad so the combat looks hard.

Farlander1991
10-20-2014, 01:35 PM
As far as I know there is no guard like in previous games. The three buttons we have are attack, parry and dodge (and use tool, I presume, but we're talking about core combat), and you can't just hold 'parry' to keep things blocked, you have to actually always press parry at the right moment to parry.

topeira1980
10-20-2014, 02:19 PM
^

Thanks for that. The combat looks pretty good so far. I just hope these people playing it have some AC experience before, because if not they just may be bad so the combat looks hard.

the guy in the vid from brazil (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHeLf5xHEAA#t=261) made combat look easy and simple enough. it doesnt look hard. it just looks like every person who played either didnt know what the parry button was or didnt care so they died quickly. attacking enemies with an occasional parry is all was needed for the dude in from brazil to kill 6 enemies. doesnt look any harder than Batman or shadow of mordor or Ryse or any other game of that sort.
i just have a feeling that some enemies will occasionally counter or dodge arno in unpredictable ways, and THAT'S what could make the combat in ACU better than most other games. it might be more simplistic, but if it's unpredictable than that's all you need. if enemies are structured and only fight according to predetermined pattern than combat becomes easy and fast.


As far as I know there is no guard like in previous games. The three buttons we have are attack, parry and dodge (and use tool, I presume, but we're talking about core combat), and you can't just hold 'parry' to keep things blocked, you have to actually always press parry at the right moment to parry.

that's what i thought as well but on these videos you can see enemies attack arno and he defends himself but doesnt kick or punch the enemy away, which is what "parry" is in ACU (it's a deflect of the sword followed by a kick or a punch that takes the AI off balance so you can hit him). so you might be wrong...

Farlander1991
10-20-2014, 02:29 PM
which is what "parry" is in ACU (it's a deflect of the sword followed by a kick or a punch that takes the AI off balance so you can hit him).

Has it actually been confirmed? We know that parries in ACU don't affect the enemies' health, while their health bar flashes when those punches hit, so it could be a 'parry then attack' combo. Or maybe it's timing related (i.e. it has to be a 'perfect' parry)

topeira1980
10-20-2014, 02:43 PM
Has it actually been confirmed? We know that parries in ACU don't affect the enemies' health, while their health bar flashes when those punches hit, so it could be a 'parry then attack' combo. Or maybe it's timing related (i.e. it has to be a 'perfect' parry)

it hasnt. im just interpreting what im seeing.
the parry DOESNT reduce health, but visually it looks like a kick or punch in every video. so it might LOOK like it takes down health but it isnt. like in batman:arkham.

HOWEVER reading here (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=915046):) adds some details -
maybe you DO need to TIME PARRY your deflects but there is a sloppy parry and a good parry like you said, so maybe the good parry is better timed and adds the punch\kick while the sloppy one doesnt, which allows enemies to continue attacking you (if that's the case than - awesomeness!).
in the brazil video you can clearly see that the player sometimes deflects and sometimes deflects and punches. definitely two types of defense. im really curious on how do you do a parry and punch compared to parry without punching. i think that the timing of the button press is the best most fun solution. really gives meaning to the player's skill!

also it seems like you need to point arno towards the attacking enemy. that's another great addition (the only game that required you to do that was "the first templar" and it was fun thanks to that requirement.

Th3 Code
10-21-2014, 03:57 AM
I am looking forward to the new combat system myself. However I am worried that it potentially may be too hard and frustrating and take some of the fun out of the game. I can potentially see this as a future complaint when people start playing the game. But overall it seems to be a step in the right direction for combat in AC.

I am also worried about this radical change. I ultimately think that the new combat system will hurt the game by making it too and so frustrating at points that replayability could be meaningless and I'm 100% sure that there are instances in the game that Ubisoft will force us to have combat because 1. It's Ubisoft, and 2. They did the same exact thing in AC1 which they are trying to take AC1's formula, and in AC1 in many sequences the game would lock you into a small zone where you could not continue in the game without defeating each and every enemy with your sword, and if you died you'd reload the game in the same exact battle until you were lucky enough to defeat every foe.

I have a similar thread that is about ACU combat but I'm not sold on any positive from it. I can understand the challenge making you feel proud for what you've done in combat, but ultimately I think they are taking away from the game more than it gives. They are turning the game into a hardcore game and not a casual game. I don't ever care to see championships of Assassins Creed in my days, so I just want to be able to at some point sit down and have a casual day of gaming. I don't want to have guards stalking me and parkouring at a similar level of an assassin, neither do I want an assassin to get destroyed by every guard it encounters.

My opinion is that this new combat system does nothing more than make Arno, and any assassin in France to be a big flappy pu see.

And they are trying to cover up this huge change by saying "OH ITS COOP SO YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING IN COOP. IF YOU NEED TO USE THE BATHROOM, DO IT IN COOP SEAMLESSLY" well... That's all great and dandy but what if you don't have the internet to support coop? Do you just strip 45% of the entire game experience because I don't live in a large city or I live in Australia and my internet is to the quality of two hampsters doing it inside of a cereal box with yarn? I highly doubt that the new more difficult combat is going to compensated by other coop online players when you can't support other players. We should not be punished for not having fantastic internet connections, nor should we be punished for wanting to play a game casually.

But there is one thing I have thought up, and that is with the new Skills system. If you made counter attack or counter kill, or maybe chain kill an unlockable skill as your character grows - then that makes this simply the best game there is. But then again neither Ubisoft or any leaked video that I've seen has shown any single details on the combat skill tree.


This is why game developers need to realize the power and benefits of giving more professional game reviewers qualities demos so that we can get actual impressions.

zkorejo
10-21-2014, 04:15 AM
The guy on Neogaf also stated that you dont only have to time your parry but you also have to direct your parry towards the enemy attacking you. For example, if you are being attacked from behind, pressing a button alone wont parry. If thats true, this will make the combat way more exciting.

I dont think the combat is"too hard" tbh. You people also have to consider that its still third or four sequence and Arno is wearing his default robes. Customization will play a big role in combat. Armors, skills and weapons will play a very important role in combat this time. The better your gear is, the easier it becomes. If you like challenge, you can wear a lighter armor etc. If the combat wasnt even as hard as it is shown in the videos, then tbh there would be no point for customization of armors, weapons etc. It all makes sense and is interesting.

I cant see why there would be complaints regarding the combat. If you suck at combat then just get a better armor, sword and improve your combat skills. Simple as that.

Th3 Code
10-21-2014, 04:36 AM
I have considered that, on how you mention it's early sequences in the game. And yeah he's using beginner equipment and nobody knows what skills he has. I'm severely hoping that skills in this so called skills tree actually makes it more fun in some cases by making it faster and making your assassin overall better in combat (if you go down the combat path). From my understanding in videos is that you cannot master every path but you can choose either a stealth, combat, or another a climbing path - but not all of them at once.

Edit: You can go into every path, but you cannot master and get the master and exclusive item and skills from all of them. Kind of like at a point in the game where you have a choice between one item or skill out of 2-3.

I was just watching though on something terribly wrong with the ACU combat though from the video at the bottom of Page 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHeLf5xHEAA#t=261

Watch at time: 4:45-4:50 and watch as Arno parries and deflects the guards attack and kicks him where the guard them slowly shows his back to Arno. Arno then decides to do the stupid thing of slashing him with his sword with a narrow sword that's not designed to be used for slashing when it's not needed to be. He could and should have stabbed the guard in the back; killing him instantly but instead he slashes the guard and resets the iteration of perry and strike. I found it stupid on multiple levels of the choice in the combat, especially since anyone who actually does fencing, they know that a small sword such as what he's using in the video isn't meant for constant slashing, and infact it's designed for stabbing. A wider, thicker sword such as a Scimitar is designed for slash attacks and is outrageously poor at stabbing on the other hand.

topeira1980
10-21-2014, 09:46 AM
@th3 code:

so you are one of those who liked the combat in previous AC games?!
i dont like you, lot :-P
you are one of the reasons why this horrendous combat system exists still. i can't believe ppl actually like it. the AC combat system has always been 100% flash and 0% substance. it's the most basic shallow and boring combat system i've ever seen in a game. AC1 showed a lot of promise and then it went downhill so fast that in just 2 games later (AC:B) combat became a nuisance instead of fun.
i have never upgraded ANY piece of equipment for my characters in AC. AC1 forced me to do that but in every other AC i stayed with the least amount of armor and crappies weapons with a hope that at some point during the game i will feel some sort of pride for killing 15 guards or any need to buy medicine (AC2) or any reason to GO STEALTH! but no. ubi apparently thought we are all a bunch of 12 year old girls who cant emotionally handle the failure of combat. that our fragile ego couldnt take it. so they craeted a combat system any cripple with 2 fingers can master. enemies that go down in one single attack but take ages to kill the player. it's unheard of. in AC games you got bombs, guns, stealth, calling for brotherhood assistance but the only reason to use any of it was just for the heck of it. not cuz you felt it's needed. to me it was just MORE stuff i could completely ignore. when you see youtube vids of ppl killing 300 enemies in AC3 in a row you KNOW there is something terribly wrong with it.

thank GOD they are finally doing something with it.

The code - i still think you can kill a few guards in a row, if that's what you are afraid of. upgrade your arno with skills and heavy armor and learn the combat system. overall it seems a lot like the combat system in BATMAN:ARKHAM - just dont rely on counters to kill but counter and then actually attack.
it looks like you cant kill 10 enemies at once though and that's a good thing, i believe. try and actually use stealth for a change in an AC game to dwindle the numbers of the enemies or upgrade your belt so you can buy a lot of medicine. it's doable, im almost sure. UBI still wants AC games to be pretty casual. they are just putting some sense and perhaps a bit of depth in the combat and not just the stealth.

you brought up a concern that you will need to chose how to upgrade arno - stealth, navigation or combat. i read somewhere that there shouldnt be a problem to upgrade arno all the way to max in all skill disciplines so dont worry.
however i have a strong feeling the skill try is going to be shallow. its not going to me Shadow of mordor or batman:arkham kinda tree where there are dozens of new abilities are really useful. from the videos they showed it looks like each tree is going to have about 5 or 6 upgrades that are just "unlock to use bombs. unlock to use guns. unlock to use poison". something really shallow like that.

about not backstabbing the guy in the video i posted - it might seem silly but UBI is using the same one handed animations for all weapons, so rapiers, broadswords and even maces all use the same animations. it has nothing to do with combat logic. it's just a re-use of combat animations since they didnt put weapon-specific animations to each weapon type. it is a shame though since if you think that slashing with a rapier looks strange imagine how thrusting with a mace looks like :-O i know how it looks like. you see it in the 4 player heist videos. looks even more silly.

about your concern that if you do not play co-op than you might be missing out of almost half of the game - first you should know there are 7 heist missions and 11 2-player co-op missions. it's not that many. and you can play them all solo, if you are not online. you wont be missing out on anything. i do have a good internet connection but i have no intent on playing co-op with ppl i dont know and i only have ONE friend who buys the game.... so most of the time i will play the co-op missions alone, and since they are somewhat random i expect to replay them a few times.

Th3 Code
10-22-2014, 02:14 AM
Lol oddly enough, I like you topeira1980. You have a sound discussion there and you actually did clear up many of my concerns.

I don't think in any game (excluding for Revelations of course, and MAYBE AC3) that you should be able to counter kill into a kill streak by any means necessary, especially in ACIV when Edward had NO assassin training at all, actually it had zero context of any training at all except for how he is a good climber but it didn't seem right since you encounter thousands of sailers in AC4 but they don't have the climbing skill on the exact same level as Edward. But.. let me take that back since everyone in AC4 had parkour skills.. So.. I'll shut up about that lol.

I don't think that our assassins should have those skills right off the back but that they should be able to grow and upgrade into those skills, and for hardcore players much like yourself - would never be obligated to actually have to upgrade Arno. And as the director for ACU has mentioned: You will never have to skill up your assassin at all in order to complete the game, and that the skills only help you in situations but are not required at the least.

But.. I never really liked the Batman games. I hate Batman as a hero and I think he's too overrated almost to the point where his games are over saturated like Mortal Kombat and are as numerous as EA Sports games, and the movies are too fanatically stupid and the acting is atrocious. Christian Bale would be of higher quality and more effective by being a worker in a sweatshop in my personal opinion lol. But I have played Batman Arkham City and I didn't really like the combat that much. I also can't find any game to compare to the Batman combat at all except for Spiderman.

And the one animation for all weapons seems pretty bland. At least in AC3 and even AC4 it seemed like the weapons had different animations half or most of the time, especially in AC3. And I won't be playing Coop in the game, but if I could I probably would but it's so hard to find a mature player for stealth and strategy type games it seems. I've played online with games like Splinter Cell and a lot of the people playing treated it as an action shootem up game. But... if you ever wanted to try it and if I can - then I suppose you could add me.

Fatal-Feit
10-22-2014, 02:35 AM
I don't think in any game (excluding for Revelations of course, and MAYBE AC3) that you should be able to counter kill into a kill streak by any means necessary, especially in ACIV when Edward had NO assassin training at all, actually it had zero context of any training at all except for how he is a good climber but it didn't seem right since you encounter thousands of sailers in AC4 but they don't have the climbing skill on the exact same level as Edward. But.. let me take that back since everyone in AC4 had parkour skills.. So.. I'll shut up about that lol.


Edward was trained to fight by Blackbeard before AC:IV. I believe it's described in the database, maybe.

Th3 Code
10-22-2014, 05:05 AM
Hmm I really don't know. It says on: http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Edward_Kenway that he was a privateer intending to be stationed with Benjamin Hornigold who was a Templar but he didn't join the Templar order until 1718, and Edward intended to join him in 1712 where he was then left unemployed in 1713, and the game leaves off at 1715 when he is already extensively trained. There are small tids and bits of him being a privateer alongside Thatch (Blackbeard) but not that Thatch was his commanding officer or that he trained Edward. But then Benjamin Hornigold who had Thatch as a quarter master second in command, Thatch recruited Kenway as a recruit to Benjamin due to their "time as a privateer".

"During the war, Edward met Benjamin Hornigold, Edward Kenway and Charles Vane"
Which had to have been before 1713 as privateers.

Also it states that Mary Read (James Kidd) joined the Royal Navy as a teenager from a previous sailor position, where soon after that she was married but lost her husband and then set sail to the west indies to become a pirate (as well as dressing and learning the role of acting like a male), but she didn't join the assassin order until soon before 1715. "Trained by the Mentor of the Caribbean Assassins, Ah Tabai" but estimated was she only joined 1 year before 1715 so 1713-1714, which is only perhaps a single year of training which is not nearly enough to match Edwards caliber. Nor does it say she had any connection with him before that time despite them being an "old friend". So the only logical explanation I can think of was the he was trained by Benjamin or Thatch, but there's still not enough conclusive evidence to prove either.

And whereas in Assassins Creed 2, it took Ezio Auditore da Firenze from the age of 17 several months to be trained by his uncle Mario Auditore before he started his conquest, but he learned through a decade of fighting throughout AC2 + Brotherhood, and by the time of Revelations (the caliber of Edward) he had approximately 33 years of experience by that time.

topeira1980
10-22-2014, 08:23 AM
Lol oddly enough, I like you topeira1980. You have a sound discussion there and you actually did clear up many of my concerns.

I don't think in any game (excluding for Revelations of course, and MAYBE AC3) that you should be able to counter kill into a kill streak by any means necessary, especially in ACIV when Edward had NO assassin training at all, actually it had zero context of any training at all except for how he is a good climber but it didn't seem right since you encounter thousands of sailers in AC4 but they don't have the climbing skill on the exact same level as Edward. But.. let me take that back since everyone in AC4 had parkour skills.. So.. I'll shut up about that lol.

I don't think that our assassins should have those skills right off the back but that they should be able to grow and upgrade into those skills, and for hardcore players much like yourself - would never be obligated to actually have to upgrade Arno. And as the director for ACU has mentioned: You will never have to skill up your assassin at all in order to complete the game, and that the skills only help you in situations but are not required at the least.

But.. I never really liked the Batman games. I hate Batman as a hero and I think he's too overrated almost to the point where his games are over saturated like Mortal Kombat and are as numerous as EA Sports games, and the movies are too fanatically stupid and the acting is atrocious. Christian Bale would be of higher quality and more effective by being a worker in a sweatshop in my personal opinion lol. But I have played Batman Arkham City and I didn't really like the combat that much. I also can't find any game to compare to the Batman combat at all except for Spiderman.

And the one animation for all weapons seems pretty bland. At least in AC3 and even AC4 it seemed like the weapons had different animations half or most of the time, especially in AC3. And I won't be playing Coop in the game, but if I could I probably would but it's so hard to find a mature player for stealth and strategy type games it seems. I've played online with games like Splinter Cell and a lot of the people playing treated it as an action shootem up game. But... if you ever wanted to try it and if I can - then I suppose you could add me.

well i like you too, buddy. can i buy you a flirty low alcohol virtual drink? :-P you know what they say - opposites attract ;-,

aaaanyway, usually im not looking for story justification for the gameplay. i want to gameplay to be good and balanced no matter who i play. even if i played superman i'd still want a challenge. not Dark souls challenge but i dont want a WIN to be obvious.
obviously that's subjective - you dont care if the assassin you play can murder 100 ppl therefore should be a super-human assassin that, in fact, shouldnt even try and be stealthy cuz why bother, but i do. i want challenge in a game or it isnt fun. i want tension. i want those moments that i feel like "oh crap, im way over my head in this fight. i better be really concentrated so i dont die or i should dump a smoke and run for it." or the feeling of "oh man, there are a lot of guards here. i better try and be quiet or im gone. $hit, someone saw me. gotta hide. gotta hide. im so screw. danm!" but in AC all i felt was - "more enemies. ok i guess. bring them on. than killing 20 enemies will just stall me for another 30 seconds. who cares?" or "there are a lot of enemies here. i guess that will take me 2 short 30 seconds fights or one 1 minutes fight. oh well. i'll just be done with it now and run between all the guards, gather them on me and slaughter them all. who cares?" and a game that places enemies (supposedly a challenge) and my response to it is "who cares?" is not doing a good job IMO. not to me.
even in batman, who was a superhero (although in concept he isnt more of a super hero than ezio, altailr or edward) i could expect he can take out many enemies at once but even there he could only do that if enemies were not armed and even then you had to play like batman - you had to react fast. you had to fight good. you had to have skills to take out the large groups of enemies. the game didnt give you a WIN button so you can take out enemies in one or two clicks of a button.

and the combat system in batman is EXACTLY the same as in shadow of mordor, which is a wonderful game, IMO. does a lot of (not all of. just a lot) what AC should do but better.

but this subject is subjective. you like to not take an effort or skill or pride in killing many enemies because the story justifies it. i dont. we are different ppl. the changes to combat seem to be catered more to my type of ppl and less to yours.
i guess the only way i could accept counter kills or chain kills (the very things i feel ruined AC combat for me) would be if they were integrated like in batman - if you gain kill streaks of about 6 or 8 hit, counters, dodges or defense breaks in a row than you gain the ability to counter kill once if you click the right buttons. or that if you counter an enemy who is already really weak than it's a counter kill. kinda like how RYSE did it (another game with a system that is a bit like batman).

Fatal-Feit
10-22-2014, 02:47 PM
Hmm I really don't know. It says on: http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Edward_Kenway that he was a privateer intending to be stationed with Benjamin Hornigold who was a Templar but he didn't join the Templar order until 1718, and Edward intended to join him in 1712 where he was then left unemployed in 1713, and the game leaves off at 1715 when he is already extensively trained. There are small tids and bits of him being a privateer alongside Thatch (Blackbeard) but not that Thatch was his commanding officer or that he trained Edward. But then Benjamin Hornigold who had Thatch as a quarter master second in command, Thatch recruited Kenway as a recruit to Benjamin due to their "time as a privateer".

"During the war, Edward met Benjamin Hornigold, Edward Kenway and Charles Vane"
Which had to have been before 1713 as privateers.

Also it states that Mary Read (James Kidd) joined the Royal Navy as a teenager from a previous sailor position, where soon after that she was married but lost her husband and then set sail to the west indies to become a pirate (as well as dressing and learning the role of acting like a male), but she didn't join the assassin order until soon before 1715. "Trained by the Mentor of the Caribbean Assassins, Ah Tabai" but estimated was she only joined 1 year before 1715 so 1713-1714, which is only perhaps a single year of training which is not nearly enough to match Edwards caliber. Nor does it say she had any connection with him before that time despite them being an "old friend". So the only logical explanation I can think of was the he was trained by Benjamin or Thatch, but there's still not enough conclusive evidence to prove either.


Read AC:IV's novel, mate.