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Llewella
10-10-2014, 09:29 AM
I wanted to post about new victory conditions, since it seems to become a problem for the game: there is basically no other way to win than reducing opponent’s hero’s life to 0, which can be achieved only by creatures in standard mode, and a few fortunes in open.
Historically, HMM series forecasted different ways to win. You could find the Grail (or Tear of Asha), defeat all enemy heroes and towns, find an artifact or a hero, control a certain number of towns, defeat one certain hero, reach one point on a map, raise an army of 1000 skeletons… And defeat conditions were multiple too: go without town for 7 days, lose a battle with a certain hero, etc.

I already suggested a “Grail mode”, but I’d like to add a few more ways to winning:
Introducing unique permanent fortune cards symbolizing Cities or Artifacts, which you should keep under control for several turns, and/or require some conditions to be kept on your control. For instance:
Chaotic Amulet, neutral unique permanent fortune, requires 0/3/3, costs 5: Chaotic Amulet is placed under the control of the player who controls the more magic creatures. At the beginning of your turn, if Chaotic Amulet is under your control, add a counter on it. When there are 6 counter on the Chaotic Amulet, its controller wins the battle.
Sacred Outpost, neutral unique permanent fortune, requires 3/0/3, costs 5: all friendly shooters gain +1 attack, +2 retaliation. When all friendly creatures die, you lose the battle.

I like the idea of finding a hero:
Jail of Phrias, neutral unique fortune, to be placed on a row (just like a row enchantment), requires 0/0/3, costs 3: when a creature attacks on the row with the Jail of Phrias, prevent all damages from this attack, and add a counter on the Jail of Phrias. The player who puts the 7th counter on it might deploy a “Phrias” token 5/2/7; “Phrias” gives sweep attack to all friendly creatures, and if you control it at the end of your opponent’s turn, you win the battle.
Sounds a bit complex…
You could also imagine a building/fortune with counters anytime you kill an opponent creature, or deploy a creature, or sacrifice a friendly creature…
The idea is to make it quite risky, because meanwhile you set up this strategy, your opponent could win conventionally. I know that this is not improving the game like milling, or Tower of Oblivion did, but this could open new strategies and make the game deeper.


Then, for defeat conditions, here is a suggestion:
Homeless, neutral permanent fortune, requires 0/0/3, costs 3. At the end of your turn, add a counter on it; when there are 6 counters on it, you win the battle. While in game, your opponent cannot draw card out of his supply phase; if he manages to inflict as many damages to your hero as the number of counters on Homeless, destroy Homeless.

Any thought?

Portios86
10-10-2014, 04:05 PM
I have played and seen mill decks in STD, I even won some games with the mill djinn which has magic channeling.

I find your cards interesting, but I think that winning conditions should always be based on creatures, just supported by spells, fortunes or buildings, but creatures doing half of the work (not just holding 50 water enchants and a chain casting on the board...).

Khobai2012
10-10-2014, 07:40 PM
I completely agree there should be viable alternate win conditions. Milling is simply not viable in the current state of the game.

Right now a large portion of the cards never see play because you have to take creatures and creature hate cards or YOU LOSE. Having alternate win conditions would help encourage other deck archetypes like control, denial, combo, etc... instead of everyone always playing decks and combat tricks decks (enrage, crippling, etc..)

I would love to see a Grail win condition. Players could earn pieces of the grail map either by controlling the board or playing certain cards. Then once a player has all the pieces of the grail map they would get a quest card which would cost A LOT to play, but if they played it they would either win outright or maybe just get an insanely good buff.

It would also help expedite those stupid 30+ minute games.

Llewella
10-11-2014, 04:59 AM
Thank you for your feedbacks.

I guess the cards I suggested are a bit unbalanced, but you grasped the main idea.

I already suggested a way to include a Grail / Tear of Asha in this post : http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/874918-New-Game-Mode-Tear-of-Asha
I think this should make the game deeper and more interesting.

bjarked
10-12-2014, 04:27 PM
they could make cards like a card a can't remember the name, but it was a card in MtG which was a permanent that made you win if you HP got to 50 or above.
of course to implement this card you would need to make heroes able to get more HP then what they start with. but it would be a great card that may save Haven, because it would allow you to win with a defensive deck.

so it could sound some thing like this.

Elrath's Eternal Light
Cost: 5
School: light
Requirements:
Might:0
Magic:5
Fortune:0
Ongoing spell
Heroes are allowed to extend there HP above there bass.
At the end of a turn if someones HP is above 50 they will win the game

Portios86
10-13-2014, 08:57 PM
The problem with your idea is that haven shouldn´t need it to win or to be competitive. It should be just an option for a fun deck.

Just tell me how it feels for your opponent if that strategy is strong, or how much fun are you having doing that whenever you play haven.
So...Imo, that´s fine for a fun deck and not competitive deck, but nothing else. In fact, even if I like the idea, I´d be against that, because it would be a toxic/unhealthy deck for the meta.