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Mike8686
07-21-2004, 04:23 AM
What do you guys recommend for gun convergence on FW190 A9 D9 and TA152, and bf190 G2 G10 and K4?

Mike8686
07-21-2004, 04:23 AM
What do you guys recommend for gun convergence on FW190 A9 D9 and TA152, and bf190 G2 G10 and K4?

Zayets
07-21-2004, 04:27 AM
Don't know but Emil has on my system 250 m for both cannon and MG.

Zayets out

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HART_dreyer
07-21-2004, 04:29 AM
Gun convergence don't matter in Nose guns (109's) and the convergence you should set for FW's is the range YOU primarily want to fire from! Easy as that.

Regards,
dreyer
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F19_Olli72
07-21-2004, 04:37 AM
A long time ago someone posted a diagram why convergence matters in nosemounted guns too. Dont ask me to dig it up it was really long time ago http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif I use 300m for both cannon and mg's in 109s, but i guess it depends on flying style...obviously if your a master of deflectionshooting you should set it to longer distance.

http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Olli72/Forgotten%20Battles/screenshotart/SIG_G50.jpg (http://www.screenshotart.com)

HART_dreyer
07-21-2004, 04:39 AM
I've always had mine set to 150 in the 109. Hardly ever fire beyond 200m.

That diagram must be for detail nuts, a detail that won't even have an effect in combat.

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)
"Above us, there is nothing above but the stars... above us."

Zayets
07-21-2004, 04:41 AM
Yes,that's true because if the nose mounted guns don't have convergence point on any plane(horiz/vert) , they do have a ballistic trajectory , just like every other guns.If I remember correctly , for those the convergence distance was the exact distance from the nose of the aircraft until the projectile will intersect the line described by tail/nose aspect of the plane.I have to look for that thread if I will have some time.

Zayets out

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F19_Olli72
07-21-2004, 04:52 AM
IIRC it has to do with the trajectories(sp?). It doesnt affect the horizontal plane only but vertical too. If you set it to 150 m you will have a harder time to hit a target 300 m away since the trajectory falls off after 150 m. This is specially true with the cannon which falls off a lot faster than mg's.

Pretty important detail if you ask me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Edit: Oops Zayets beat me to it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif
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Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-21-2004, 04:58 AM
Olli72.. you are wrong, I think.

in Il2, the convergence did affect the vertical , but not anymore in FB.

As a prrof, I will tell you that in VEF with IL2 I was used to set my convergence for Fw190A4 to 1000m .. and I took only the 2 Mg151 only.. that allowed me to shoot with nice deflection cause my cannon were shootin way up over the nose.

Now, it doesnt work anymore. Just try yourself. take a Fw190 ,and set convergence to 100m, than 1000m .. and than compare the trajectories. For sure, the 1000m bullets dont go "over" the 100m.. Sad, it was a great tip-.

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Zayets
07-21-2004, 04:58 AM
Don't know where that thread is! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Zayets out

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F19_Olli72
07-21-2004, 05:04 AM
Merlin, im not really wrong because im talking about theory of how it works in reality. If it does in FB is another matter (though which this thread is about) but i have always used 300 m in the 109s.

Edit: but i agree with the below post, one can try different ones to find what suits you personally. Though it seems between 200 - 300 m is quite common.

http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Olli72/Forgotten%20Battles/screenshotart/SIG_G50.jpg (http://www.screenshotart.com)

Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-21-2004, 05:04 AM
Zayets. there is no RIGHT convergence. the convergence must fit to you, to the way you fly and shoot.

I personally use 200m to 300m, depending on the plane and weapons. but Im not telling its the good one.

You must test, and find what you like more.

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Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-21-2004, 05:07 AM
rgr Olli. so you are right. the way you explained is how it works in reality and how it did work in Il2.. but now in FB, it doesnt work anymore. (at least from what I see).

and its a pain, cause setting conv to 1000m was a good tip to compensate the lack of forward visibility in some planes like the Fw.. (using wing root or nose guns only, of course)

------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------
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tfu_iain1
07-21-2004, 05:12 AM
people seem to like long convergence! i tend to go with 150 on the mguns, 100 on the cannons, seeing as i tend to have closed to 100 by the time i feel like opening up with them. plus at that range you get bags of destructive power

Zayets
07-21-2004, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merlin (FZG_Immel):
Zayets. there is no RIGHT convergence. the convergence must fit to you, to the way you fly and shoot.

I personally use 200m to 300m, depending on the plane and weapons. but Im not telling its the good one.

You must test, and find what you like more.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely there's no RIGHT convergence.Is just that I discovered I can stay long enough behind those P-38 at that specific distance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out

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Farkitt_
07-21-2004, 05:38 AM
100 to 150.

Anywhere in between that is what I set mine to. thats for any Aircraft.

And I consider myself a reasonably good shot.

Flying Online as Ginger_Lacey
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F19_Ob
07-21-2004, 05:45 AM
I Have always used 300 in most ac.
, but I have been flying the later 109's mostly. This was a good setting for me because I have always tried to increase my shooting opportunities, and found that this was good for hitting at 3-400m aswell as 50-100m.

Now I have flown wing gunned planes for a while and testing 180m convergence.
180m conv. works well att close range but in planes with mg's only like the p40 I cant shoot the wing off or criple planes aswell at about 300m, wich was quite common for me a while back.
300m distance is almost too far for deflection shots but this has always been a very important range for me, since u have more time to aim at this distance and the opponent often thinks he is safe and makes less movements (usually).

I often practice with rangeicons in Quickmission. with 300m conv. I seem hit more often at silly distances like 400m than with 180m conv.
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Im going to test if I can detect any elevation differenses with different convergenceranges.

PapaSmurf630
07-21-2004, 05:59 AM
Olli I love your sig, its beautiful...You don't have any other pictures like that do you?

Zayets
07-21-2004, 06:01 AM
Yes , he does! Actually he gave me a bigger version of his sig.And I have more from him from screenshotart.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

Conan_249th
07-21-2004, 06:12 AM
I prefer a longer convergence range for the greater flexibility it gives you. Remember, if you set convergence at 100, then the bullets cross at 100 and the streams are at the same width as the gun mounts at 200. Think of it as an X where the center is the convergence.

The problem with short convergences is that a 100 convergence means the distance between the two bullet streams is twice the gun mount distance at 300. At 400 it is FOUR times gun mount distance.
A 300 meter convergence means you can shoot to 600 meters and still have your rounds in an area the distance of your gun mounts plus dispersion. Very useful in my book.

Cheers

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"There is no problem which cannot be solved by the proper application of high explosive."

Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-21-2004, 06:29 AM
Conan, you said it all-

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Zayets
07-21-2004, 06:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Conan_249th:
I prefer a longer convergence range for the greater flexibility it gives you. Remember, if you set convergence at 100, then the bullets cross at 100 and the streams are at the same width as the gun mounts at 200. Think of it as an X where the center is the convergence.

The problem with short convergences is that a 100 convergence means the distance between the two bullet streams is twice the gun mount distance at 300. At 400 it is FOUR times gun mount distance.
A 300 meter convergence means you can shoot to 600 meters and still have your rounds in an area the distance of your gun mounts plus dispersion. Very useful in my book.

Cheers

http://www.simops.com/249th/sigs/Kapitanconan.jpg

"There is no problem which cannot be solved by the proper application of high explosive."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is a good point,but don't you cry when you have the PERFECT align at 100-150 m and your bullets will hit, one stream in a wing , the other stream outside the enemy plane frame?I meet A LOT of situations like that when the enemy popped up suddenly in front of my nose and I have had poor results by hitting with only one stream.I can only speculate that was only one stream because the results were very poor,usual debris but nothing more.

Zayets out

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WTE_Wombat
07-21-2004, 06:44 AM
To the original poster.

Think about this - you are sitting UP in the cockpit but the guns are mounted DOWN and WIDE of you in the wings. If they are all to "converge" on the target that you see in your gunsight then they have to be tilted somewhat up and inwards.

The convergence is the distance where it all comes together - your line of sight and the stream of shells.

What you have to remember though is that at ranges less than your convergence the guns will be hitting low and wide, and at greater than your convergence they will be shooting high and wide.

What the distance that they converge at should be set to is up to you, but I recommend 250m as a good compromise. At closer ranges the target is larger and easier to hit so the fact that your guns are a bit low is of less importance, and on the other hand you simply should not be shooting beyond 300m.

HTH

F16_Filur
07-21-2004, 07:02 AM
ConanāĀ“s got a point, considering the dispersion, it can work for you even with the 20mm noseguns at a distance. The sight just has to be in the vicinity of the target at the "right" distance for (some) shells to hit.

Another view on it is what kind of shot you want to be? IMO thereāĀ“s more challenge in striving to be a true marksman, making every shell count. One firing solution = the opponent goes down. Then I guess 150m convergence is close to ideal. Thinking of Marseille and Hartmann, not wasting so much ammo.

I found it to be good training to only shoot with the cannons. Despite the flamethrowers you kinda see where you shoot (as long as you avoid the 30mm nosegun). Using the rudder to aim is more important than I first thought. One trick that can make the plane a more stable gunsplatform is working with opposite rudder/ailerons. Helps to finetune the aim, small adjustments possible without nose oscillations (the elevator input then becomes much less jumpy).