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View Full Version : I want the AC2 style free run back



ADHDmania
10-01-2014, 01:58 PM
Really don't like AC3 new free run system, which players need just press right trigger, not RT+ A

AC3 style free run is mess, character will accidentally run into almost everthing, you have less control and free run become less precise

i don't how many people share the same opinion, considering Ubi put AC3 new free runing system into AC4, i am afraid Unity will the be same mess

Farlander1991
10-01-2014, 02:05 PM
Unity has a different parkour system, though.

There are two buttons - one is parkour up, the other is parkour down, so depending whether you just press RT, or press RT+up or RT+down it will be different modes of movement, so in fact Unity would have more control than any of the previous games.

(Sure, AC games had jump down mechanics ever since 1, but it was pretty unprecise in the allowed height department).

Also, I disagree that old AC controls are any more precise than AC3/AC4 ones. Ezio likes to jump not where needed and do not what I want as much as Connor or Edward have.

marvelfannumber
10-01-2014, 02:19 PM
Yeah I agree that the AC3/4 parkour is way too automatic and messy, but the old system had some major problems aswell. From what I have heard about Unity's free running system, it sounds like the best one so far.

DumbGamerTag94
10-01-2014, 02:58 PM
Rightttttt......cuz AC2 didn't also have all those problems like sticking to things you don't want, climbing buildings you don't want, Ezio jumping to the wrong rooftop, etc........apparently those things never happened???? :rolleyes:

AC3s parkour system and AC2s are barely any different. And here's why. To sprint in AC2 you had to hold A. Meaning that you would automatically climb something if you were too close or bumped it. The A button didn't matter because to navigate you would basically be smashing it at all times. Effectively making it no different than AC3s. And if you don't know you can still jog in AC3 and 4 just like AC2 without pressing A button. Just don't pull the trigger button all the way.

But no there is no difference. They both **** up just as much

Farlander1991
10-01-2014, 03:04 PM
And if you don't know you can still jog in AC3 and 4 just like AC2 without pressing A button. Just don't pull the trigger button all the way.

That would be 'don't push the stick all the way', since it's analog. Trigger is digital. So with keyboard it's impossible to jog.

And yeah, functionality of AC2 and AC3 system is the same, it's just that buttons are different (for example, in AC2 to drop off from a ledge down without holding on to anything, you just release 'A' and go down while holding the trigger, while in AC3 you'd have to press a button to actually drop down and not jump far down), and the leap jump is automated. Plus AC3 has vaulting.

DumbGamerTag94
10-01-2014, 03:08 PM
@farlander

Nope I meant pull trigger less. On xbox triggers are pressure sensitive. Some sniping games even make your accuracy worse for pulling and not squeezing the trigger even giving a pressure bar. And yes Connor slows down if I keep the analog jammed forward and slightly release the trigger.

And if it's impossible to do on a keyboard. Then that's the down side of playing a console game on PC

Farlander1991
10-01-2014, 03:10 PM
Nope I meant pull trigger less.

Hm, didn't know that, I thought analog triggers weren't present until this new gen (though now that I remind myself of how X360 controller is exactly, it makes sense that they're analog).

But the stick works just as well for jogging.

king-hailz
10-01-2014, 03:30 PM
I agree I think AC3/4 free run system is terrible! The ones before felt more real and had more thought than before... I guess unity will have the most control then ever before however! It's still looks extremely automatic... and all these fancy animations look nice however I preferred the simplicity of the games before... and tbh before ac3/4 they had the same system as unity... It just didn't have the fancy animations.

Farlander1991
10-01-2014, 03:37 PM
I agree I think AC3/4 free run system is terrible! The ones before felt more real and had more thought than before... I guess unity will have the most control then ever before however! It's still looks extremely automatic... and all these fancy animations look nice however I preferred the simplicity of the games before... and tbh before ac3/4 they had the same system as unity... It just didn't have the fancy animations.

Not really. If you just hold the trigger in old games, you do jump over small obstacles and jog, but you can't free-run freely on one plane (which from my understanding is what will happen with Unity if you just hold RT).

You also can't seamlessly (there's that word again :D ) parkour down in old games. It's either drop from ledge to ledge straight below, or if you're on a platform you can drop onto a lower plane directly, but it's all very limited and narrow.

ACU system, as it's explained by developers at the least, provides full control over where you go in any direction and plane, which is not something neither AC1-ACR neither AC3/AC4 systems can say.

Hans684
10-01-2014, 05:10 PM
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120912035854/bloonsconception/images/6/64/Bear-how-about-no.jpg

Layytez
10-01-2014, 05:13 PM
Wait...what ? You want the death claw back ?

Hans684
10-01-2014, 05:15 PM
Wait...what ? You want the death claw back ?

The Devs call it Assassin Claw.

Layytez
10-01-2014, 05:18 PM
The Devs call it Assassin Claw.
Better name. I call it death because my hand felt like that after some time playing.

Hans684
10-01-2014, 05:22 PM
Better name. I call it death because my hand felt like that after some time playing.

Indeed. At least Unity solves this.

Sushiglutton
10-01-2014, 07:24 PM
Nah I think what they are going for in Unity sounds rather great. On paper it seems much better than any of the previous games (AC1-AC4). So I'm just gonna wait for that :)!

Fatal-Feit
10-01-2014, 07:46 PM
Rightttttt......cuz AC2 didn't also have all those problems like sticking to things you don't want, climbing buildings you don't want, Ezio jumping to the wrong rooftop, etc........apparently those things never happened???? :rolleyes:

AC3s parkour system and AC2s are barely any different. And here's why. To sprint in AC2 you had to hold A. Meaning that you would automatically climb something if you were too close or bumped it. The A button didn't matter because to navigate you would basically be smashing it at all times. Effectively making it no different than AC3s. And if you don't know you can still jog in AC3 and 4 just like AC2 without pressing A button. Just don't pull the trigger button all the way.

But no there is no difference. They both **** up just as much


Unity has a different parkour system, though.

There are two buttons - one is parkour up, the other is parkour down, so depending whether you just press RT, or press RT+up or RT+down it will be different modes of movement, so in fact Unity would have more control than any of the previous games.

(Sure, AC games had jump down mechanics ever since 1, but it was pretty unprecise in the allowed height department).

Also, I disagree that old AC controls are any more precise than AC3/AC4 ones. Ezio likes to jump not where needed and do not what I want as much as Connor or Edward have.

This, pretty much.

I wouldn't be worried about Unity's parkour system. It's completely revamped and apparently offers more precise parkouring with the overhaul to the parkour UP and parkour DOWN buttons. Personally, I am more concerned about the parkour animations/visuals. They are worse than the previous games. Arno would climb up without a running boost and without grabbing onto any individual ledge with his hands like he's Spiderman or something. It's also a little floaty, in my opinion.

Regarding AC:3/IV's parkour system, I like them more. It just takes practice and adjustment, I guess. I've run into less messy problems with them than the earlier games. Especially with the improved parkouring on land. Leaping over and under fences, tables, boxes, etc is something I can't live without.

SpiritOfNevaeh
10-01-2014, 08:05 PM
I prefer the AC3 parkour system.

I have recently finished AC1 and the parkour was a little annoying.

When I replay the rest of the series, I'll give my input on how each one of them is. But so far, AC3 takes the cake on my end :p

SixKeys
10-01-2014, 08:26 PM
AC3/AC4 parkour system may be technically the same, but AC4's accuracy is heaps better than its predecessor's. AC2 had the occasional misstep where Ezio would climb up the wrong structure, but not NEARLY as much as in AC3. Maybe it's more noticeable if you play with KB+M like I do, since keyboard controls tend to be very precise. If I press forward, I don't expect anything other than forward. So why does Connor automatically veer to the right or to the left when I'm not pressing either of those buttons? AC2 system may not have been perfect, but it gave much more control to the player.

Fatal-Feit
10-01-2014, 09:15 PM
Maybe it's more noticeable if you play with KB+M like I do, since keyboard controls tend to be very precise. If I press forward, I don't expect anything other than forward. So why does Connor automatically veer to the right or to the left when I'm not pressing either of those buttons? AC2 system may not have been perfect, but it gave much more control to the player.

I've been playing AC:IV a lot with the mouse and keyboard, recently. I must say, I can see why people prefer it now. :p If you or anyone else have a recommended gaming mouse or keyboard, do share. Or PM, please.

Anyway, I wish AC's running controls on the keyboard was more like Watch_Dogs. You can't jog or tilt, so you're manually forced to climb if you're not careful.

----------------------------

Regarding your problem, it's because you're not manually pressing/tapping the parkour UP or DOWN key for precision.

Namikaze_17
10-01-2014, 09:30 PM
I don't Understand...

I mean what's the difference between holding R1 + X to Climb
( AC2)
And Just holding R1? ( AC3/ AC4)

And it wasn't like AC2 Free Running was any worse or better than AC3/ AC4 Free Running...they're really similar IMO.

- Both have Asssssin jumping off to places you didn't want them to.
- Both Break Flow while running on buildings.


And I could go on... :rolleyes:

GoldenBoy9999
10-01-2014, 10:52 PM
No, I don't want to go back to AC2 climbing. Are you aware that Unity will have a different parkour system than AC/AC4? I'm confident ACU's movement system will be better than the two previous styles.

I liked how in AC3 you could climb and also move the camera. I've heard if you pull the trigger with either your ring or middle finger( I can't remember) than you can move the camera more easily so maybe I'll try that when Unity comes out.

D.I.D.
10-02-2014, 02:44 PM
I hear this complaint a lot, but it just seems like user error to me. It reminds me of people complaining about certain driving games where players will blame allegedly terrible handling, but when you watch their hands you notice that they're clamped down for full acceleration constantly.

Same thing here. The only way to run up walls and objects accidentally is if you are never taking your finger off the Run control. Movement is actually much more precise since AC3, particularly in AC4. The Run control is a broad movement mode and when you need precision or need to pick an object to climb, you need to take your finger off it for a split second. It's really hard to mess up anything as long as you remain conscious of what you're doing. You're actually much better protected against making mistakes with the new controls, which is the whole reason they changed from the AC2 era.

Sushiglutton
10-02-2014, 04:33 PM
I hear this complaint a lot, but it just seems like user error to me. It reminds me of people complaining about certain driving games where players will blame allegedly terrible handling, but when you watch their hands you notice that they're clamped down for full acceleration constantly.

Same thing here. The only way to run up walls and objects accidentally is if you are never taking your finger off the Run control. Movement is actually much more precise since AC3, particularly in AC4. The Run control is a broad movement mode and when you need precision or need to pick an object to climb, you need to take your finger off it for a split second. It's really hard to mess up anything as long as you remain conscious of what you're doing. You're actually much better protected against making mistakes with the new controls, which is the whole reason they changed from the AC2 era.

And what is the reason they changed it back to requiring you to hold RT+A to climb?

Requiring RT+A to climb is de facto more robust to input errors. When you only need to hold RT small input errors in the angle you are holding the stick(s) and timing of when you are releasing the run button can cause big errors. It's a more fragile control scheme all other things equal.

Unity needs the extra robustness of RT+A as you are now able to run diagonally towards a wall and start climbing!

DumbGamerTag94
10-02-2014, 04:45 PM
And what is the reason they changed it back to requiring you to hold RT+A to climb?

Requiring RT+A to climb is de facto more robust to input errors. When you only need to hold RT small input errors in the angle you are holding the stick(s) and timing of when you are releasing the run button can cause big errors. It's a more fragile control scheme all other things equal.

Unity needs the extra robustness of RT+A as you are now able to run diagonally towards a wall and start climbing!

That's not true sushi.

Unity's system is different from both. You hold trigger to sprint and parkour on horizontal planes.
You use A button to continue upward and B to go down. If I release either A or B I will parkour on a level plane staying mid building for example.

If I'm on a rooftop jumping from one to the other or over clotheslines or trees I need not hold A or B as I am on that plane already. In that sense it operates more like a modified AC3 parkour system.
I can still navigate using just trigger and sprint using just trigger also just like AC3 and 4. The only difference is when climbing a building I either hold A to go up or B to go down. Left right and rooftops won't require holding another button.

A and B are just for controlling ascent and descent. Not for sprinting or jumping from place to place like AC2.

So they just took the AC3 version and added these up down controls so unlike in both AC2 and 3. You won't unwantedly stick to random objects or jump to the wrong place.

It's nothing like AC2s system

Sushiglutton
10-02-2014, 04:53 PM
That's not true sushi.

Unity's system is different from both. You hold trigger to sprint and parkour on horizontal planes.
You use A button to continue upward and B to go down. If I release either A or B I will parkour on a level plane staying mid building for example.

If I'm on a rooftop jumping from one to the other or over clotheslines or trees I need not hold A or B as I am on that plane already. In that sense it operates more like a modified AC3 parkour system.
I can still navigate using just trigger and sprint using just trigger also just like AC3 and 4. The only difference is when climbing a building I either hold A to go up or B to go down. Left right and rooftops won't require holding another button.

A and B are just for controlling ascent and descent. Not for sprinting or jumping from place to place like AC2.

So they just took the AC3 version and added these up down controls so unlike in both AC2 and 3. You won't unwantedly stick to random objects or jump to the wrong place.

It's nothing like AC2s system


What I said was: "changed it back to requiring you to hold RT+A to climb" (I suppose "to start climbing" would have been better :) ). I never said it would be the same as the AC2 system in other areas.

DumbGamerTag94
10-02-2014, 05:06 PM
But as I said there was no difference between AC2 and 3s versions because you also needed to hold A to sprint. Meaning that while navigating anywhere you were always holding A anyway making you stick to random things and climb unwantedly.

Both old systems had the same problems. Just AC3-4 removed the redundancy of holding A at all times.

Kakuzu745
10-02-2014, 05:11 PM
Time to move on...Unity will bring a better system (or so they say).

Sushiglutton
10-02-2014, 05:11 PM
You ran by just holding RT in AC2, but not as fast as by holding RT+A. You are not requested to hold it at all times though.

pacmanate
10-02-2014, 05:16 PM
I just had a dream I played AC Unity and the parkour was great.

Sushiglutton
10-02-2014, 05:21 PM
I just had a dream I played AC Unity and the parkour was great.

I hope your are right! I'm a beliekour!

DumbGamerTag94
10-02-2014, 05:32 PM
You ran by just holding RT in AC2, but not as fast as by holding RT+A. You are not requested to hold it at all times though.

No just trigger was a jog. To sprint you need to hold A

Sushiglutton
10-02-2014, 05:42 PM
Could you please stop strawmanning me all the time, it's getting a bit annoying.


Edit: "The term running can refer to any of a variety of speeds ranging from jogging to sprinting." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running

DumbGamerTag94
10-02-2014, 06:04 PM
I don't know how I'm "strawmanning" here. I'm saying that the AC2 and AC3 models of free running are exactly the same with the exact same problem.

I'm making a cinstructive argument by pointing out that in AC2 trigger+A(which is used almost always for navigating and pursuing targets I've never just ran around using the much slower trigger only run if I'm crossing Florence). Is exactly the same as AC3s trigger only. You get the same results. Constant unwanted parkour and sticking.

I'm strawmanning??? Seriously??? Says the guy who's changing the focus to things like the definition of running. And the technicality(yet barely even relevant or ever used feature) that AC 2 you can do a slow run with just trigger without climbing(which btw can be done by not using as much pressure on the trigger in AC3-4). All so you can prove some point that AC2s method was superior and thus why they incorporated it in unity(witch also isn't true)

pacmanate
10-02-2014, 06:09 PM
Not even worth you two debating/arguing this. Just move on.

Sushiglutton
10-02-2014, 06:20 PM
I don't know how I'm "strawmanning" here.

First you accused me of claiming that ACU will have the exact same parkour system as AC2, which I never did. A classic strawman. Secondly you claimed my statement: "You ran by just holding RT in AC2, but not as fast as by holding RT+A." was wrong because "No just trigger was a jog. To sprint you need to hold A". However both jogging and sprinting are examples of running so there was nothing wrong with what I said. And why would you even try to argue against a statement like that? Even if I had used the definitions wrong it was still clear what I meant and hardly relevant to the discussion.

This will be my last post on the topic. I remember who you are now and that you use these types of techniques all the time which makes it unbearable to discuss anything with you, so I'm out!

m4r-k7
10-02-2014, 06:23 PM
AC Unitys free running system sounds the best so far as it seems much more accurate as you are specifically choosing if you want to go up or down. So if you are just running on the ground, you won't climb up and if there is an obstacle that you can climb over or slide under, you can more accurately choose what you want to do.