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AztekWrath
07-18-2004, 01:57 AM
Can anybody tell me what the advantages and disadvantages of the 109 F-4 are?

AztekWrath
07-18-2004, 01:57 AM
Can anybody tell me what the advantages and disadvantages of the 109 F-4 are?

x__CRASH__x
07-18-2004, 02:00 AM
advantage: It's a 109 and chciks will dig you for flying it. At least, thats what I tell myself. Of the 109's it turns well, and is better powered than the E's.

Disadvantage: Slow, weak motor, weak guns. If you can get into a '42, go with the G2. If you can go higher, get a G6!

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BlakJakOfSpades
07-18-2004, 02:01 AM
my findings are its very maneuverable (spelling?) but the guns are weaker than other german planes

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F19_Ob
07-18-2004, 03:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AztekWrath:
Can anybody tell me what the advantages and disadvantages of the 109 F-4 are?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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It depends what u fly against, or do u mean compared to other 109's?


The 109 F2 have the 15mm cannon wich is weaker but have the flattest trajectory of all the 109 cannons wich requires less deflection = lead.
The 109F4 have the same 20mm cannon as the G2 and also have better visibility to the rear.
F4 turns slightly better than G2 wich (strange to me that so many prefer the G2) most seem to favor, wich is also slightly faster than F4. Personally I prefer F4 before G2 bcause they are very close in performance and G2 has very poor visibility to the rear, wich forces u to turn more and thus the speed advantage is lost on lower altitudes. Its also much easier to get bounced in G2. But they were all good in their own timespan. Many of the real pilots liked the 109 F4 but they did well in the later ones too.

The F4 has no weaknesses compared to the other 109's exept speed if U fly against later allied planes outside its timespan.

--------------------------------------------

Other than that the general weaknesses of all the 109's are that it cant sustain battle damage. a few hits on the wings will cripple it beyond fightingcondition and a hit in the engine results almost always in an oilcovered frontwindow. Most allied planes could out turn it but a 109 well flown could do well in slow scissoring fights because of its good slowspeedhandling and gentle stall.
The strongest advantage of the early and mid 109's was its powerclimb along with its slowspeedhandling wich made it a difficult opponent in vertical fighting... In FB most still seem to just try to outturn their enemy with horisontal turns.


Its a good idea to learn to turn well in any less good turning ac. A trick that I use sometimes when I chase a better turning plane is to expend my speed by throttling down and pull hard and throttling up again, wich mostly results in me turning inside my opponent and shooting him down. The drawback of this maneuver is that after this turn all speed is gone and if u miss the enemy U might be in trouble. I also use this when I try to force a better turner into a scissoring fight rather than a one way turnfight wich I would loose.

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Sun July 18 2004 at 02:48 AM.]

Ugly_Kid
07-18-2004, 03:12 AM
At the moment F-4 does not turn better than G-2 in the game. A sustained turn at 1000 m takes 21-22 s for F-4 at the moment, G-2 is spot on 19.5 s.

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actionhank1786
07-18-2004, 03:26 AM
I wish we could get the option to put the 20mm cannons in the wing "tubs" like the pilots in the African campaign got to do with their Bf-109 F's, that'd be a nice addition

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Vipez-
07-18-2004, 03:41 AM
I never have quite understood why F-4 and F-2 are such "crappy" turners.. when they should be the best in 109-family.. but they are still delight to fly in 1941 servers against contemporary enemys (Spit Vb, Yak1, Lagg-3)


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F19_Ob
07-18-2004, 03:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ugly_Kid:
At the moment F-4 does not turn better than G-2 in the game. A sustained turn at 1000 m takes 21-22 s for F-4 at the moment, G-2 is spot on 19.5 s.

http://people.freenet.de/hausberg/oksennus_1.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Strange...I havent clocked the sustained turn so I cant say your statement is inaccurate. But I still seem to get better turn In F4 in the unsustained hard turn i described in my above post and this I have tested quite a lot.

regards

Vipez-
07-18-2004, 03:53 AM
in the game G-2 does turn better than F-4. F-4 and F-2 are missing some 3 seconds of its sustained turn rate..


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BennyMoore
07-18-2004, 04:18 AM
However, you do have a tighter turn circle when you do classic turn fighting, because of your slower speed. Also, you can "push" it harder than the G-2, and therefore outturn the G-2 even if they are both going at the same speed (I think; I haven't actually set up a test for this and am basing this on my experiences with the two aircraft independently).

That's not to say that it's not undermodelled, though.

Ugly_Kid
07-18-2004, 04:49 AM
Just try it. It should make it to some 18.5-19.5 s but it won't. You can use some of the devicelink recorders to see it in detail. I don't get the performance out of it, which prooves nothing, however, I do get the performance out of the G-2. Well, too tired to moan about it, the whining is too popular these days anyway. I am not too much in turning anyway, F always served me good in VEF but I would not praise it with the tears in my eyes like the old vets who solemnly swear on Friedrichs. I prefer G-2, even G-6. I'd rather have the ordnance than correct performance though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
07-18-2004, 07:14 AM
i can push the G2 harder in a turnfight and its stall seems less prone also the G2 can keep its energy better think,maybe because it has a stronger engine ?

i dunno i just feel more confedent with turning in a G2 then a F4 but thats just a feeling

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kubanloewe
07-18-2004, 10:25 AM
here´s the Test from USAF with a 109F2 and F4http://home.arcor.de/kubanskiloewe/109f_evaluation.pdf

in FB it´s 300kg to heavy modelled as OLEG´s confirmed. In IL2 it wasn´t.

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kubanloewe
07-18-2004, 10:30 AM
http://home.arcor.de/kubanskiloewe/109f_evaluation.pdf

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2004, 10:31 AM
Klasse Bild und Kommentar, kubanloewe! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I.JG53_Steuben
07-18-2004, 10:48 AM
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