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Natchai_Ubisoft
09-08-2014, 09:56 AM
ALERT: The cards pictured here are not of the latest revision and some have already seen change. We'll do our best to update them asap. As it is stated, all of these are still work in progress and subject to change. Thanks for understanding

Ariana, Chosen of the Void
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/arianaV2.png

Eternal Apprentice
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/eternalapprenticeV2.png

Shogun
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/shogunV2.png

Executioner Succubus
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/ExecutionersuccubusV4.png

Blessing Inquisitor
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/inquisitorV2.png

Mother Harpy
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/motherharpyV2.png

Arcane Master Djinn
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/djinnV2.png

Week of the Elementals
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/weekofthelementals.jpg

Anastasya
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/anastasyaV2.png

Irina
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/irina.JPG

Kiril
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/kirilV2.png

Anton
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/anton.png

Sandor
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Sandor.JPG

Elisabeth
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/elisabeth.JPG

Magic Deal
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/magicdeal.png

The Shadow of Death
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/shadowofdeath.png

Blast of Winds
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/blastofwind.png

Jungle Outpost
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/jungleoutpost.png

Scarification
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/scarification.png

Shifting Fates
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/shiftingfates.png

Sunrise
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/sunrise.png

Artwork of the cards can be found here (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/919956-S07-Cards-revealed-so-far?p=10225715&viewfull=1#post10225715)

npavcec
09-08-2014, 02:12 PM
Mother Harpy :rolleyes:

Paoloking
09-08-2014, 03:33 PM
Week of the Elementals? Nice, i would like to play spirit Sanctuary deck with 4x Greater Earth Elemental and Yukikos Shrine so now i hope this expansion could be more elemental friendly.

Portios86
09-08-2014, 03:48 PM
that djinn is so cute...has she got pink energy instead of hair?? :D

JitSunny
09-08-2014, 04:47 PM
MMDOC art has always been epic, but my word, Week of the Elementals blew my mind. Top stuff guys, top top stuff... Keep it up!!!

superktro
09-08-2014, 08:26 PM
week of elemental art is stunning
inquisitor brough me back to Homm V, alaric saying "the bloody red light"
executioner succubus is the worst artwork ever so plz dont make it into a card plzzzzzzzzzzzzz

DWMU_Clock
09-08-2014, 09:33 PM
wow those pics are amazing, cant wait for the new expansion and real cards!

Portios86
09-08-2014, 09:48 PM
come on guys the succubus is quite awesome xD she doesnīt need to be beautiful, itīs an ugly demon this time :p

wait, wait..!! What if the inquisitor is finally the generic 2/0/4 shoter for haven?! :o

twardy_
09-08-2014, 09:50 PM
its so sad that a game with such nice and epic arts is 'niche' , it needs more love than candy rainbow HS!

jbS1ash
09-08-2014, 10:30 PM
Where is the Water Elemental?:(

bogi122
09-12-2014, 08:58 PM
Anastasya
http://i.imgur.com/5MeGuXT.jpg

Irina
http://i.imgur.com/FzHjDhI.png

Kiril
https://www.duelofchampions.com/data/public/uploads/54119cd06c154.JPG

and 14 more artworks from promo pic
https://www.duelofchampions.com/data/public/uploads/54119d5178ab9.png

Portios86
09-12-2014, 10:10 PM
lol Slava had so many children...:D

Irina and Kiril look awesome, donīt like much that Anastasya though.

superktro
09-13-2014, 07:39 AM
anastasya looked better in homm VI, but her ability is cool. It would be cool if anastasya had a better artwork.

superktro
09-13-2014, 07:41 AM
Homm VI didnt have academy so i guess their hero would be a friend of the griffins or a bastard son of slava who went to the silver cities

S9TF1
09-13-2014, 08:07 AM
Homm VI didnt have academy so i guess their hero would be a friend of the griffins or a bastard son of slava who went to the silver cities
*cough* Kate *cough*:D

superktro
09-13-2014, 09:41 AM
Homm VI didnt have academy so i guess their hero would be a friend of the griffins or a bastard son of slava who went to the silver cities

Mythrit
09-13-2014, 01:09 PM
Anastasya looks like boy wtf :nonchalance:

cleverpun0
09-13-2014, 01:12 PM
Am I the only one who finds the "Hero with no ability but 3 magic schools" a bit boring?

Doubt that Anastasya can compete for Ariana when it comes to the crippling counter stall deck, but it might end up an interesting bit of spot removal depending on the other cards in the set.

zuom000
09-13-2014, 02:16 PM
Am I the only one who finds the "Hero with no ability but 3 magic schools" a bit boring?

Doubt that Anastasya can compete for Ariana when it comes to the crippling counter stall deck, but it might end up an interesting bit of spot removal depending on the other cards in the set.

These heroes would be nice, if there was more control decks.

bogi122
09-13-2014, 04:29 PM
Anton (Russian version)
https://pp.vk.me/c619217/v619217908/1cede/jeYMGhqPEPk.jpg

S9TF1
09-13-2014, 05:08 PM
Anton (Russian version)
https://pp.vk.me/c619217/v619217908/1cede/jeYMGhqPEPk.jpg
Good catch. Can anyone translate it's ability for us?

Edit: Nevermind. I found it's translation on Reddit. It says: increase the size of all friendly stacks by 1.

Portios86
09-13-2014, 05:13 PM
Come on...you have to be joking :( that Anton looks really awful...

Anyway, can we have a translation? Iīm really interested in haven cards.

Btw 3 schools heroes are a bit boring thatīs right, but I find namtaru super strong and interesting, I donīt like the others though.
And Anastasya has a horrible school combination with a cool but not so good ability. Remember how extremely weak was Gazal against rush despite her ability?

Edit: thx s9tf1! Looks interesting, but with the worst school combination in haven...air doesnīt fit the faction and light is still a bit weak, donīt know if Iīd play him over cassandra and her higher destiny...

bogi122
09-13-2014, 06:20 PM
Sandor !

http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/images/94949487039698861/Sandor.JPG

MoritzBradtke
09-13-2014, 06:34 PM
i don't like anton's artwork, low Quality and looks more like are a heaven hero than could have dark magic, he doenst look so holy to me.... and his face Expression.... wtf...
his skill is intresting but i dont know if it will see Play, depends on the Cards heaven gets, if we get another good stack and better human low Drops for barracks, i guess he will be the most played hero...
ist Kind of funny how everyone thought barracks is op and we should not get better human Drops and now we dont even have a t3 deck with it haha....

Xev5
09-13-2014, 06:55 PM
Well if he does not sport a happy fiesta my little pony-grade baby face, that still does not mean that it's a dark magic hero. You know, there are somber people in life as well. Not everybody is running around smiling like a fool, especially amidst a catastrophic war campaign. He looks like a troubled young man, burdened with far too much responsibility for his age - which, SURPRISINGLY, he actually is. The art is fine, it's far better than most of the previous cartoonish stereotypical heroes.

girolamocas
09-13-2014, 08:22 PM
Yeah, I like Anton's artwork too. Sort of Dark Soul-ish :)

Mushidoz
09-13-2014, 09:03 PM
Anton is Slava's kiddo.. they both look horrible! :D (far better than what my "talent" in drawing would allow me to do, but so not on par with some of the artworks that DoC has shown it's capable of having)

Sandor looks like a wrestler.. when is Hulk Hogan going to be released for stronghold? I want tag team match.

PS: All heroes released in that expansion seem overpowered as hell.
PS2: I also find the 3 magic schools heroes are extremely lazy, cleverpun. One would have been unique and awesome, but 6 of them feels like they ran out of ideas (and I'm sure it's not the case). Anyway, that's my impression.. even if they're freaking powerful, they're not heroes I would play only because they feel like they have no personality other than being strong (except maybe Jeze, only because her artwork is freaking amazing)

superktro
09-14-2014, 09:28 AM
truely awful

superktro
09-14-2014, 03:28 PM
except kiril and irina, the other hero art works are totally crap,
ivan was a devout elrrath follower and looks like a jaundiced spooky guy
sandor artwork is just too clumsy for me
anastasya looks like a barbie boy
succubus executioner is just a comic demon and makes me laugh.
overall very bad performance but the card art designers. mmdoc with artworks. lmao

bogi122
09-14-2014, 04:15 PM
Elisabeth
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2seRC6FNyVE/VBWscVYAYsI/AAAAAAAAA8M/zFR_hbnC0Ts/s1600/elisabeth.JPG

S9TF1
09-14-2014, 06:07 PM
Elisabeth
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2seRC6FNyVE/VBWscVYAYsI/AAAAAAAAA8M/zFR_hbnC0Ts/s1600/elisabeth.JPG

Meh. Unless Light gets some amazing spells, Hakeem would probably be still better than her.

BTW, what's the deal with the heroes' artwork? Why do most of them have to look so bad, if compared to Week of the Elementals (my favourite one so far)?

Week of the Elementals
http://i.imgur.com/hdyUtjo.jpg

Cainium
09-14-2014, 07:05 PM
Dark Magic for Stronghold in Standard... that's what the world needed.

And still no Fire Magic for Necro in Standard? If every faction gains access to every spell school with one exception, why is necro the only one with two exceptions in standard?

Anayway, Anastasya looks interesting for some Vampire-Fun. With Town-Portal, Timejump and Crippling-On-Demand she is way better than Sveltana (unless Air get some really strong spells).

superktro
09-14-2014, 08:43 PM
elisabeth is ewwwwwwwwwwww
can anyone translate that anton ability to english

zuom000
09-14-2014, 09:13 PM
Both elisabeth and anton looks a bit like oil paintings. If earth school is going to get any buffs, elisabeth will be super strong with all her removal.

bogi122
09-14-2014, 09:14 PM
elisabeth is ewwwwwwwwwwww
can anyone translate that anton ability to english

Someone had already written translation

Edit: Nevermind. I found it's translation on Reddit. It says: increase the size of all friendly stacks by 1.

marecki49
09-14-2014, 09:14 PM
Apparently I'm the only one who likes the art on Elisabeth and Anton (especially Elisabeth). Kiril on the other hand looks silly, like a world of warcraft character or something.

Portios86
09-14-2014, 09:20 PM
Dark Magic for Stronghold in Standard... that's what the world needed.

And still no Fire Magic for Necro in Standard? If every faction gains access to every spell school with one exception, why is necro the only one with two exceptions in standard?

Anayway, Anastasya looks interesting for some Vampire-Fun. With Town-Portal, Timejump and Crippling-On-Demand she is way better than Sveltana (unless Air get some really strong spells).

Because thereīs a secret rule in DoC: stronghold has to be the best faction all the time.

Jokes aside, I think itīs a toghrul with soulreaver, but I donīt know if toghrul (or this guy) really wants to play soulreavers. Soulreaver is great, I just donīt know if 4 cost 4 magic removals are good in this meta where you can easily remove a creature at 1cost with altar, where you are already playing awesome stronghold creatures+insect swarms. If soulreaver and other dark spells arenīt better, then we havnīt any reason to play this new hero over toghrul.

Agree with necro and haven exceptions (dark and light). Thatīs enough restriction to not have fire magic in necro again.

Btw, honestly talking, even if it seems boring, I think we should have all the school possibilities and combinations for every faction. Earth+fire is insane, super good, but itīs only in stronghold and inferno. Thatīs unfair. Oh, and we have enough light+air heroes in haven, mostly enough light which sucks. And air actually sucks too in standard. Perhaps the game would be a lot more balanced if some schools combinations were added for some factions? A fire+water hero for haven, for example, or a fire+dark for necro.

Anyway, I just hope light and air gets something good this time, and Iīm not forggeting blinding light and sunblaze, those cards are ok, but not so strong.

zuom000
09-14-2014, 09:31 PM
Agree with necro and haven exceptions (dark and light). Thatīs enough restriction to not have fire magic in necro again.
.
Every faction except academy has restricted magic school.

Portios86
09-14-2014, 09:34 PM
Apparently I'm the only one who likes the art on Elisabeth and Anton (especially Elisabeth). Kiril on the other hand looks silly, like a world of warcraft character or something.

Most bs1 arts were taken from heroes VI, exacty as they were. Iīm not sure, but I think they arenīt taking heroes VI arts this time, and I think Anton, for example, looks way better in heroes VI.

Some people didnīt like Slava. Slava looks exactly as heīs in heroesVI, and if you know the guy from the game, he looks exactly like he has to. Heīs a middle aged man in his 40īs, a great duke. But he isnīt too serious, neither a joker. Heīs great at strategy, and a good fighter, but not a super strong warrior. So, more or less, he looks like a man like that could be.

Anton looks awful here, honestly. He wasnīt the best kid, a bit fanatical of the griffin/empire philoshophy, but in the end, he managed to find the truth and make the right things, he was a good guy and he learnt a lot in the journey. Oh, and he was more or less "good looking". And very young too.

At least for me, he doesnīt look like that in this art. Here he looks like too old and dark. The light+air combination shows his philosophy, 100% haven schools, air from ylath, the old god, and light for elrath, the new haven god. Very keen on haven. But this art fits better in a dark/fire+light magic haven hero.

P.s: we have heroesVI art, for example, in sun rider and seraphim. With heroes VI art I mean copy-paste, exactly the same.

Portios86
09-14-2014, 09:36 PM
Every faction except academy has restricted magic school.

stronghold has all the magic schools with this new hero. Dark, light, fire, earth, air, water...all but prime magic. So I guess youīr right, I always forget about primal magic.

zuom000
09-14-2014, 09:42 PM
stronghold has all the magic schools with this new hero. Dark, light, fire, earth, air, water...all but prime magic. So I guess youīr right, I always forget about primal magic.
Sanctuary fire
Inferno and necro light
Haven dark

Cainium
09-14-2014, 10:00 PM
Sanctuary fire
Inferno and necro light
Haven dark

In Standard:

Haven: Dark
Stronghold: Prime
Inferno: Light
Necro: Light and Fire
Sanct: Fire
Academy: nothing

So, that Academy gets it is fine and logical. But still my original question remains unanswered: Why no Fire Magic in STANDARD for Necro after 3(!) expansions?

Paoloking
09-14-2014, 11:37 PM
In Standard:

Haven: Dark
Stronghold: Prime
Inferno: Light
Necro: Light and Fire
Sanct: Fire
Academy: nothing

So, that Academy gets it is fine and logical. But still my original question remains unanswered: Why no Fire Magic in STANDARD for Necro after 3(!) expansions?


in Standart, Sanctuary has not acces to prime and fire magic.

Cainium
09-14-2014, 11:48 PM
in Standart, Sanctuary has not acces to prime and fire magic.

Oh yes, i missed that. Than they are in the same spot and the same question applies there. Why Water for Inferno and Dark for Stronghold but no Fire for Necro or Prime for Sanctuary?

Portios86
09-15-2014, 01:13 AM
The only thing I really question is giving some of the best schools and school combination to dominant factions. Water for inferno in a fire,water, dark hero. Dark for stronghold in a dark-earth-fire hero.
And making a fire-earth hero in last expansion (toghrul).

Other than that, I know it canīt be frustrating to not see a magic school in a faction and they should do something about, but they only release a few heroes each expansion and most of them are always with new combinations for the faction. A dark/prime hero for necro isnīt exactly new, cause we had ariana, but due to her ability she couldnīt have better schools maybe. But we get new combinations in every expansion, like nahla for example, or masfar back in HoN.

I know we are going to see a fire hero for necro and also think it was better releasing it now instead of anastasya, honestly.

Also, Iīm not sure if this new stronghold hero is going to be very good or if stronghold players are going to play soulreavers instead of other cards (with a 59 cards deck), but I find it quite infuriating, at least on papper it looks quite good and I donīt want a freaking decent card for stronghold. I know itīs unfair, Iīm just starting to hate stronghold with all my heart and soul, it was one of my favourite factions when I started playing long ago, now I really hate it, I just canīt play stronghold unless I have a daily quest or itīs Matewa/acamas (I find them balanced in the current meta at champ III), and I almost want to quit the game when I face 5-10 streaks of stronghold games. It gets worse when I lose with board control due to zephiria, tent, shreder, altar...like I said in another thread asking for help.

In fact, the last 3 days I have been considering to quit until the new expansion like I did in HoN when I had all the cards but I was too frustrated with one of my favourite factions, haven, so weak.
Itīs better now, haven is weak but playable and you can play all factions without wanting to shot yourself...but always the same opponents, dude...always kat, when itīs not kat is toghrul...really.
I think I play too much, therefore I get bored too fast, and when the meta stalls...at least for me, champ III is incredibly boring.

Do you guys play league of legends? well, I hate Lee Sin there, from bronze to diamond, I just canīt see him in every game abusing its mechanics. Stronghold is the same here.

And btw, anton might be good, I could even love every haven card in the next expansion, but at least for now, another light-air haven hero seems boring, even if light and air are buffed, we already have a light-air hero in haven, and light is already everywhere in haven. Really...Slava with air-light+fire and cassandra with those 2 schools. Iīd love to see another water-air like sandal (for standard), and a fire-water or fire-earth hero for haven could be awesome.

superktro
09-15-2014, 05:54 AM
thanks bogi122

Paoloking
09-15-2014, 10:37 AM
I agree it is really wierd that Haven has now third hero with Light / Air combination. It looks like devs just copied-paste old mechanics. Maybe it is just easier to balance.

Natchai_Ubisoft
09-15-2014, 11:20 AM
Check the original post guys, updated all cards with stats ;) (week of elementals still coming)

Paoloking
09-15-2014, 11:35 AM
Ariana is god.

Edit: I just checked all new cards and i must say, really good work. I am a bit sad that honor is not sanctuary exclusive ability anymore but this Inquisitor really boosts low attack haven units.

Mythrit
09-15-2014, 12:17 PM
Shogun OP!!!
Mother Harpy OP!!!

Atban06
09-15-2014, 01:40 PM
Elisabeth will be the new mill hero :D I'm sure I'll like her since mill is my favorite strategy

X-tomas
09-15-2014, 01:45 PM
Feeling of casual player

Ariana efect is nice but unique align creature whit only 2 DMG and 1 retaliation seam kind of low if you ask me.

Eternal Apprentice to costly to play i thing

Shogun in Kenage deck will be problem

Executioner Succubus not much dark creatures here + high requirements i don’t thing we will sea it very often

I am woried for Blessing Inquisitor in Kieran or Cassanda deck. Honor in haven will be strong.

If ther is no other Harpys then Mother Harpy is not that big deal 5 cost is high + it don’t have immune to retaliation.

Arcane Master Djinn good for Hakem maybe some late OTK decks

Mythrit
09-15-2014, 02:04 PM
Ariana efect is nice but unique align creature whit only 2 DMG and 1 retaliation seam kind of low if you ask me.


for 7 u get voide ripple 6 cost 6 magic and creature 2/1/7 magic shooter

svilleneuve
09-15-2014, 02:15 PM
The idea behind the 3 school heroes was to have replacements for the Seekers if/when Standard rotates them out. The meta needs vanilla heroes for the newcomers, so we made those 6 heroes in case Seekers needed to be removed. We put 3 in GB and 3 in the next expansion, I knew that Heroes with no abilities aren't as exciting, we couldn't put them all in the same set. So this was a choice with the future of DoC in mind. It's also about testing the waters to see what works, what gets you, the players, excited.

As for the choices of what schools goes on them; it all starts with which Heroes fit the current story. This is usually decided by the heads of the brand and we have discussions on who goes where and who does what. We want to respect the lore as much as possible and this season tells a story that was already told in Heroes 6. Then we had to look at what standard would look like with those 6 Heroes instead of the Seekers. When all this was done, we had 12 heroes to split between 2 sets. It only seemed logical to put all 5 kids in one set.

Portios86
09-15-2014, 02:24 PM
Ariana has low stats compared to other broken uniques like zephiria and damran, I guess sheīs considered stronger or perhaps because sheīs a shoter.

Succubus triggers at the beggining of next turn so, if you play succubus I have to sacrifice a card? and if I have to kill your succubus then you donīt have to sacrifice anything?
Not sure is this card is too freakin good, like giving banshee to winferno, or Iīm missing something and card is weak indeed.

Shogun has a weird ability for sanctuary, but seems nice, mostly for kenage.
Arcana master djinn seems really nice, you play a creatu rewith decent body and instantly, you draw a card at the end of that turn.

Blessing inquisitor...No, it doesnīt make haven too strong. Hardly. This card is fine, honor is great to have in haven, indeed I think devs gave too much haven design to sanctuary.
I like it, the problems I see are:
-Honor decks arenīt even played right now, at least at high elo. Haven doesnīt have any particular synergy to make it better here.
-Itīs a 4drop, we already have good 4drops in haven that we donīt even play because there is no room for more (angel of mercy).

I guess there will be 2 and 3 drops for haven in this expansion, those are the haven cards I want to see, honestly.

Edit: I didnīt see you Villeneuve! Nice to see you back to the forums. Hope you enjoyed your holidays ;)

Leisses
09-15-2014, 02:27 PM
It's is really cool to see a Game Designer word on that. And now I'm starting to think how the game will be if/when they remove the Seekers. At first it seems great ^^

Elthirius
09-15-2014, 02:37 PM
@svilleneuve, since you drop by, do you have a word on the turn taken by the haven faction in the meta ? I recall you said that Haven was too rushy to explain the removal of wolf captains. But the barracks seems to put Haven in the same state as before. Do you plan to do something about it ? (though I won't complain since I can finaly play Haven competitively :o)

Paoloking
09-15-2014, 02:45 PM
Ariana efect is nice but unique align creature whit only 2 DMG and 1 retaliation seam kind of low if you ask me.



Ariana is supergood, she can destroy ongoing fortunes like Titan Workforce or buildings like Spawning chamber.

EDIT: WEEK OF THE ELEMENTALS text revealed, All neutral spirit creatures costs 1 resource less to play and it looks like it is an ongoing event

Portios86
09-15-2014, 03:12 PM
@svilleneuve, since you drop by, do you have a word on the turn taken by the haven faction in the meta ? I recall you said that Haven was too rushy to explain the removal of wolf captains. But the barracks seems to put Haven in the same state as before. Do you plan to do something about it ? (though I won't complain since I can finaly play Haven competitively :o)

Itīs not competitive when it was picked once in r2p and lost the game. But itīs playable again, in HoN it wasnīt even playable Imo.

It would be interesting to know what he thinks and I canīt speak for him but, barracks and stackables are supposed to be weak and slow the first turns. And I think they are. Barracks isnīt really rushy, but it grows fast if ignored. Wolf captain was weak alone but it was easy to play some creatures around making it too rushy with week of training.

Btw, looking at masfar otk and titan workforce, I think every faction should have at least a few rushy creatures to have a better chance against those decks.

budynzmajonezem
09-15-2014, 03:43 PM
Too bad that even with Week of the Elementals you still couldn't be able to play neutral spirits for lower cost in early turns because of their requirements.

Portios86
09-15-2014, 04:01 PM
perhaps with a couple of weeks, in mid game where you have better stats...

Anyway, I think itīs just a filler. But hey, it might be nice in elemtal decks if we get that kind of deck.

jbS1ash
09-15-2014, 04:32 PM
Looks like Blessing Inquisitor is the best card right now, as well as Shogun and Mother Harpy. Other cards seems too expensive in requirements/cost. But we didn't see full set of cards, so waiting until October 9, and i hope "Work in progress. Still subject to change." is not just words here ;)

budynzmajonezem
09-15-2014, 04:40 PM
Ariana looks quite powerful to me - 2/1/7 shooter with possibility of removing ongoing fortune (which is really needed right now) or even a creature (which makes her not worse than Zephiria). Eternal Apprentice also not that bad - coming with 2 crippling counters and 5hp can block power lanes pretty well, may be viable in necro (but I agree cost may be too high).

svilleneuve
09-15-2014, 04:48 PM
It would be interesting to know what he thinks and I canīt speak for him but, barracks and stackables are supposed to be weak and slow the first turns. And I think they are. Barracks isnīt really rushy, but it grows fast if ignored. Wolf captain was weak alone but it was easy to play some creatures around making it too rushy with week of training.

Barracks and stacking creatues puts the pressure on your opponent early in the game, not because it can win early, but because it can build up to an absurd amount of damage mid-game. It was probably one of the hardest balancing challenge I've encountered. It would've been so easy to make a Haven rush deck with it, but we didn't want that. It needed to be just a tad slower than rush, but fast enough to stand up to it, while at the same time playing with buildings and a new mechanic we didn't fully understand yet. It was a huge gamble.

Portios86
09-15-2014, 05:16 PM
It didnīt really work well Imo, stackables are too weak alone because they are always way worse than a creature of same cost, and you canīt block two rows if you are stacking. They are great with barracks though, and garrison but garrison is too weak (useless) without stackables around. Barracks is strong, but requires a deck built around, and can be quite weak in late game if you donīt have enough fuel.

But at least for that specific strategy, and if you get the right draws, it can be powerful and feels like you described.
I can see how it was really difficult to design and balance, so even if I donīt like much the result I canīt say it wasnīt a nice job.

Anyway, so far I donīt like how it feels playing haven with this strategy, itīs too inconsistent Imo, has several counters and is too slow for the meta. But I donīt know what haven cards are we getting in sins of betrayal.

Could you give us some information about the faction in the new expansion? More buildings? new stackable creatures? New and better 2-3 drops?

Barracks are funny sometimes, but I like more commander angel and devout priest, for example. Not saying they are better, I just like their design, they fit in the faction and feel strong.

bogi122
09-15-2014, 06:06 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--XiU1OQw3Ro/VBcZIXhfEHI/AAAAAAAAA8c/0vsp9RWA6nE/s1600/ohAg8Hn.png

zuom000
09-15-2014, 06:13 PM
The idea behind the 3 school heroes was to have replacements for the Seekers if/when Standard rotates them out. The meta needs vanilla heroes for the newcomers, so we made those 6 heroes in case Seekers needed to be removed. We put 3 in GB and 3 in the next expansion, I knew that Heroes with no abilities aren't as exciting, we couldn't put them all in the same set. So this was a choice with the future of DoC in mind. It's also about testing the waters to see what works, what gets you, the players, excited.

.

I dislike an idea, that basic necro hero in BS3 has no access to dark magic, which is a bit strange flavor-vise.

SilverMajkl
09-15-2014, 06:31 PM
Can someone please explain to me, why the fck no heaven hero has acces to dark magic? Now even or have it? It is much more logical for humans to have it, than orks, also much more traditional concerning Heroes games, where everyone loved dark/light combination. I would take argument that dark and light cannot be together, but Noboru. Also, inferno hero with water magic destroys this kind of thinking.

What gives?

blzzrd89
09-15-2014, 06:41 PM
Blessing Inquisitor is just insane - 2/3/7 melee shooter with honor 1 for 4 resources, 3 might and 2 magic requirement, seriously? At least drop its health to 6 so it would be possible to kill it with Ice Meteor and 3 magic FF.
Shogun looks good. I don't think Sanctuary control needed a boost, not sure if this card will be used much though, since it requires 4 might and Geyser/Ice Meteor with Outmaneuver seems enough.
Eternal Apprentice - 2/1/5 melee for 5 resources is just too weak even for a common. Making it shooter or melee-shooter might be more reasonable with these stats, IMO.
Mother Harpy - atm it looks like another good tool to deal finishing blow for the Stronghold, but it can become very strong depending on how good other harpies will be.

Magic Deal - not sure if the game needed such easy neutral ongoing spell/fortune removal, we alredy have price of the void and it seems rather balanced for what it does.

svilleneuve
09-15-2014, 06:50 PM
Can someone please explain to me, why the fck no heaven hero has acces to dark magic? Now even or have it? It is much more logical for humans to have it, than orks, also much more traditional concerning Heroes games, where everyone loved dark/light combination. I would take argument that dark and light cannot be together, but Noboru. Also, inferno hero with water magic destroys this kind of thinking.

What gives?

Haven despises use of Dark magic. To a certain point, you can say that they tolerate the use of magic other than light. They are borderline fascist about that kind of stuff. If anyone uses Dark in the Empire, he's killed or exiled.

Orcs on the other hand don't mind using Dark, it's part of their 2 gods religion. But they absolutely hate Prime magic. They were created from a mix of humans and demons using Prime magic and enslaved as the wizard's armies. When they broke free, they founded their own culture and their own interpretation of the use of elemental magic forces. In Ashan, there's 6 elements, and Dark is part of it.

Water in Inferno makes sense, because although they may seem based around Fire, Inferno is based around Prime. Prime is split in Chaos, Void or Order. I'll let you guess which part they are. They have a very fiery look for 2 reasons. 1- they're imprisonned in the core of the world, which is mostly lava. 2- Urgash, the dragon of Chaos, and the progenitor of the Demons is made of lava-like stuff. His aspect and its tie to lava is more to evoke chaos than any kind of heat. Water isn't their favorite school, but it helps them. Water controls the mind in a way that Dark can't. Also, Demons can't stand Light magic. Plus, a succubus is someone that was once not a demon, and maybe a mage that knows how to use Water. Jezebeth is a succubus.

Sandro400
09-15-2014, 07:30 PM
Haven despises use of Dark magic. To a certain point, you can say that they tolerate the use of magic other than light. They are borderline fascist about that kind of stuff. If anyone uses Dark in the Empire, he's killed or exiled.

Orcs on the other hand don't mind using Dark, it's part of their 2 gods religion. But they absolutely hate Prime magic.

But Haven CAN use Dark magic. Well then, Uriel, an Archangel, used it. Yeah, they are banished and killed for that, but we have precedent.

1. One of Ashan's creators, Erwan LeBreton, stated that certain individual Orcs can become Wizards. And we have Toghrul, who became an Incubus. So I see no problem in creating certain Stronghold hero with Prime (I thouhgt it would be Toghrul).
2. BUT! What freaks me out is having Slava, Sandor and Irina as 3-schools users, while their artworks incline them to be warriors... Sandor as Dark mage and Slava with Fire freak me out especially.

Leisses
09-15-2014, 07:36 PM
It is really nice to see the core explanations from svilleneuve. I'll visit this topic a lot more =D

About Eternal Apprentice are you guys not aware that this creature can deal two cripling counters the round it enters the battleground and choose to attack for another two cripling or move getting the best cripling combo for each turn?

S9TF1
09-15-2014, 08:19 PM
Eternal Apprentice is suited for stall/control. Like Hellfire Bloaters, it works best when a lane is full. Just drop it in front of the enemy and wait.

Let's make an example:

Turn One.Your opponent (Haven) has a 3/3/6 Shooter and a 2/4/6 Melee. You drop the Apprentice in front of these two creatures and end your turn.

Turn Two.Your opponent now has a 2/2/6 and a 1/3/6. He attacks with them and inflicts 3 damage. The Apprentice is now a 2/1/2. You play your turn, but decide to not attack with the Apprentice. End of turn Two.

Turn Three. Your opponent has a 1/1/6 and a 0/2/6. If he doesn't kill the Apprentice now, his two creatures will become useless by the next turn. If he moves the 1/1/6, you can follow it and repeat the whole process on another lane.


To summarise:
-EA works best against Haven and Necro, the two factions which have the lowest attack.
-If a full lane has an attack value of 5 or lower, then the EA will always survive unless the creature in the back has an attack of at least 4.
-Against half lanes it is usually best to attack; full lanes, on the contrary, require the EA to NOT attack.

Leisses
09-15-2014, 09:33 PM
And even in your examplo EA can attack because he'll reduce the 2/2/6 to a 0/0/4 creature.

EA is a "cripling version" of Decay Spitter, one of the most loved Necro creatures from Open.

DZs7-
09-15-2014, 09:41 PM
Ariana- quite nice and good balanced (void ripple + unit)
Eternal Apprentice- maybe for some troll deck aka another annoying unit
Shogun- as for me it should be 4might and 3 destiny to bost up Shalan and Takana (Sanctuary might/destiny decks) problem would be with Yukiko
Executioner Succubus- it will be broken or totally useless
Blessing Inquisitor- well I don't like that honor is no longer Sanctuary only(also compare it to Kabuki Tei or Wanizame) - maybe instead some anty dark magic ability etc.
Mother Harpy- depends on other harpies
Arcane Master Djinn- it may be nice
Week of the Elementals- well maybe if some1 would play 4 of those and it would stack some neutral deck could be build (Crag return ? )
Anastasya- it will be same problem as with Ishuma ability too good with 0 cost(especially versus low attack faction) too bad with 1 cost
Irina- really nice as Sanctuary is most time played 4might (maybe like 4/5/3 or 4/4/3 as dark lotus pond is just awesome or even faster 4/5/1)
Kiril- well not sure about ability(now there are like 10/12 fire/dark creatures which inferno can play) but magic and stats are quite nice
Anton- spell school combo as it was said just too boring(maybe some fire + earth etc) also not sure about ability looks like usable when you have board control to make it even bigger, but could be annoying though
Sandor/Elisabeth- potentially solid heroes

Portios86
09-15-2014, 10:35 PM
Blessing Inquisitor is just insane - 2/3/7 melee shooter with honor 1 for 4 resources, 3 might and 2 magic requirement, seriously? At least drop its health to 6 so it would be possible to kill it with Ice Meteor and 3 magic FF.
Mother Harpy - atm it looks like another good tool to deal finishing blow for the Stronghold, but it can become very strong depending on how good other harpies will be.
.

Seriously guys...whatīs the part of "haven is the weakest faction" that you donīt understand?
Blessing inquisitor isnīt a freakin god mode stronkghold card, neither a winferno card. Itīs for haven, the weakest faction. And Iīm not the only one saying that, even top players have said haven is the weakest faction or one of the weakest at best.

In this meta with double IS,geyser and ice meteor I wouldnīt play this card if it has 6 hp because it has to be played with other creatures around it. Ice meteor=GG. No, thx.
It looks strong and I hope itīs really strong, even better than he looks. Haven needs love. Love and consistency. I have enough of the flip a coin kieran barracks.

About harpy, as you say, it can be "another" good tool to deal the finishing blow, so I hope itīs never played. I just have enough "surprise,youīre dead!" with wartent,shredders and zephirias. I just quit the game if stronghold is better at doing that in the next expansion. Really, I just quit.

Btw svilleneuve is right about dark magic in haven but, what if we get an exiled knight who uses dark magic? That would be awesome Imo.

SilverMajkl
09-16-2014, 12:20 AM
Haven despises use of Dark magic. To a certain point, you can say that they tolerate the use of magic other than light. They are borderline fascist about that kind of stuff. If anyone uses Dark in the Empire, he's killed or exiled.

Orcs on the other hand don't mind using Dark, it's part of their 2 gods religion. But they absolutely hate Prime magic. They were created from a mix of humans and demons using Prime magic and enslaved as the wizard's armies. When they broke free, they founded their own culture and their own interpretation of the use of elemental magic forces. In Ashan, there's 6 elements, and Dark is part of it.

Water in Inferno makes sense, because although they may seem based around Fire, Inferno is based around Prime. Prime is split in Chaos, Void or Order. I'll let you guess which part they are. They have a very fiery look for 2 reasons. 1- they're imprisonned in the core of the world, which is mostly lava. 2- Urgash, the dragon of Chaos, and the progenitor of the Demons is made of lava-like stuff. His aspect and its tie to lava is more to evoke chaos than any kind of heat. Water isn't their favorite school, but it helps them. Water controls the mind in a way that Dark can't. Also, Demons can't stand Light magic. Plus, a succubus is someone that was once not a demon, and maybe a mage that knows how to use Water. Jezebeth is a succubus.

Thank you for your reply, always nice to know what goes through designers minds.
But still, i do not think it is a valid reason. You got consistent fluff, that is a good thing. But it should not go against the gameplay experience. To put it bluntly, it is easier to picture scenario where desperate human defender uses dark magic, then it is to build strong heaven deck.
Heaven is the weakest faction. Thats not great, but i suppose someone has to be. But reserving arguably strongest magic for everyone except weakest faction seems somehow strange to me.
Also, as you build on strong franchise, there is a good chance that your players will be recruited from this fanbase. Fanbase where Heaven is most popular faction since Heroes III and where it often use dark magic in newer titles. Now theese fans came to test this new card game and their favourite faction kind of sux and they cant even use magic they would like.
I am just saying, not like i care that much, but it seems strange to me, because i see it first hand. Several of my friends, whom i sometimes play Heroes and MTG with, tested it on my recomendation
and it did not go as well as i expected (and i had high hopes, because DoC is a fine combination of the two).

Not that i am telling you how to do your jobs, just laying my thoughts here.

Also, i am not Heaven fan as you might think. I am Dungeon guy, so Dark Elves WHEN? :-D

Cainium
09-16-2014, 12:35 AM
Thanks svilleneuve for the good explanations.

Nice to hear something about the "possible" future. But again.. what about Fire in necro again? I'm also a bit worried about that the default necro hero for BS3 possibly doesn't have dark magic.

At the cards:
Ariana: Good card. But compared to the other uniques, maybe a bit too weak. As she is "chosen of the void" i would like to see herself "not banishable" except by her death on the battleground.

Crippling: Seems like necro finally gets some good crippling cards. Excited to see what comes with new dark spells to complete the picture.

Honor in Haven: Nice idea to fix the low attack problem. But makes Haven more vulnerable against Geyser and Ice Meteor. Maybe we the him in a fast Kieran Stack Rush with ressource acceleration.

Shogun: Could be problematic with Kenage. Maybe one damage would be enough.Sanctuary is a very mobile faction with many combinations of dealing "unexpected" damage.

Succubus: Interesting.

Mother Harpy: Depending on how many playable harpys the next expansion has it ranges from OP to underpowered. Stronghold already has to many "surprise surprise" damage, removal and mobility cards. Doesn't need more of them.

Week of the Elementals: Nice to see more love given to the neutrals. But like the mercenaries it will not be enough to build a competetive deck around them.

Bomy99
09-16-2014, 07:52 AM
The Blessing Inquisitor is just what haven needs imo: lots of hp/retaliation and decent attack,relatively cheap to play and it boosts up other creatures (which is good as some haven creatures have low attack). I can only see haven playing 4 of them in any deck, always...

Sandro400
09-16-2014, 11:07 AM
Can anyone explain to me WHY Shogun is MAGIC WATER CREATURE while NOTHING on his artwork depicts even something magical??? On the contrary, he has a sword!!!
Also, he will 2 damage to himself too...

Natchai_Ubisoft
09-16-2014, 01:47 PM
Ariana, Chosen of the Void
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/arianaartwork.jpg

Eternal Apprentice
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/eternalapprenticeartwork.jpg

Shogun
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/shogunartwork.jpg

Executioner Succubus
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/succubusexecutionerartwork.png

Blessing Inquisitor
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/inquisitorartwork.jpg

Mother Harpy
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/motherharpyartwork.jpg

Arcane Master Djinn
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/djinnartwork.jpg

Week of the Elementals
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/weekofelementalsartwork.jpg

Anastasya
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/anastasyaartwork.jpg

Irina
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/irinaartwork.jpg

Kiril
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/kirilartwork.jpg

Anton
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/antonartwork.png

Sandor
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/sandorartwork.png

Elisabeth
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/elisabethartwork.jpg

Magic Deal
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/magicdealartwork.jpg

The Shadow of Death
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/shadowofdeathartwork.jpg

Blast of Winds
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/blastofwindartwork.png

Jungle Outpost
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/jungleoutpost.jpg

Shifting Fates
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/shiftingfates.jpg

Sunrise
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/sob/Artworks/sunriseartwork.jpg

svilleneuve
09-16-2014, 02:07 PM
Thank you for your reply, always nice to know what goes through designers minds.
But still, i do not think it is a valid reason. You got consistent fluff, that is a good thing. But it should not go against the gameplay experience. To put it bluntly, it is easier to picture scenario where desperate human defender uses dark magic, then it is to build strong heaven deck.
Heaven is the weakest faction. Thats not great, but i suppose someone has to be. But reserving arguably strongest magic for everyone except weakest faction seems somehow strange to me.
Also, as you build on strong franchise, there is a good chance that your players will be recruited from this fanbase. Fanbase where Heaven is most popular faction since Heroes III and where it often use dark magic in newer titles. Now theese fans came to test this new card game and their favourite faction kind of sux and they cant even use magic they would like.
I am just saying, not like i care that much, but it seems strange to me, because i see it first hand. Several of my friends, whom i sometimes play Heroes and MTG with, tested it on my recomendation
and it did not go as well as i expected (and i had high hopes, because DoC is a fine combination of the two).

Not that i am telling you how to do your jobs, just laying my thoughts here.

Also, i am not Heaven fan as you might think. I am Dungeon guy, so Dark Elves WHEN? :-D

Since Heroes switched to the world of Ashan, each faction has gotten a clear favorite school and a clear ban from a design standpoint and Haven's ban is Dark. If any game is to use Dark in Haven, there needs to be REALLY good reasons for it and a REALLY good story to tie it with. If that rule is ever to be broken, it's gotta be something big. I don't think DoC needs that right now.

I think that Haven's problem is that Dark is too strong and Light is not, and it's not by putting Dark in Haven that you'll fix the problem. Maybe Dark needs to be less effective, then Haven wouldn't feel like it's missing on something and we wouldn't have to sacrifice part of the lore.

Marbran
09-16-2014, 02:42 PM
Are you going to reintroduce unique spells, now that we got a lot of unique fortunes ?

VeitGearmaker
09-16-2014, 02:57 PM
i'd love to see some unique spells if they had a little less unconditional power but i guess the aligned uniques were meant to replace the spells

some spellschool aligned normal creatures would be nice though...

Mushidoz
09-16-2014, 03:45 PM
I am not too sure where I am supposed to post this, whether it should be a different thread or whatever.. but here's the post anyway, hopefully it will be read.

I really have a problem with Irina because of her schools.

Noboru:

This guy comes with Dark / Light, and a very good, yet very costy finisher ability. Why play Noboru instead of Irina? Well, his ability perhaps... at least there's still a reason to play him if you value the relocation.

Mukao:

Mukao comes with dark and water, and a very small and subtle ability that is not that useful. If Mukao was an inferno hero, he would probably be among the top just because they are the ones with the discard mechanics, and being able to know what the other player has in hand for 2 at will would be freaking insane. Why play Mukao if Irina comes into the game with her current 3 schools? None whatsoever - simply none.

Irina:

Her magic schools simply makes Mukao obsolete and diminish the strength and originality of Noboru. In Noboru's case, that is semi-fine, as his ability can still be of use as a finisher and therefore can justify his use. I strongly believe that dark or water should be removed from Irina simply to justify Mukao's presence in the game. Because of how Mukao has a very small ability, his magic school combo of dark and water should forever remain exclusive to him and him only (in sanctuary).

I suggest Irina's dark or water be replaced by another school of magic - prime would be a good idea, simply because that school is currently inexistant in standard for sanctuary (fire is a no-go, earth would make Shalan fairly obsolete, and air would be mostly boring)

bogi122
09-16-2014, 04:40 PM
http://i.imgur.com/NXDxceS.jpg

zenithale
09-16-2014, 04:46 PM
+1 with Mushidoz.
Irina should have Light+Water+Prime.

thomasleberzerk
09-16-2014, 05:02 PM
Even if the shogun has a good artwork, the cost and the ability are not interesting, or do i miss something?

zuom000
09-16-2014, 05:04 PM
http://i.imgur.com/NXDxceS.jpg

Crippling is becoming viable strategy with this card.

As of Irina and other sanctuary heroes, I would rather buff Mukao and Noburu a bit, than changing her magic school. Sanctuary is all about balance, and Irina reflects this philosophy pretty well as new base hero.

thomasleberzerk
09-16-2014, 05:12 PM
i had rather to play the previous version of the executionner Succubus, who introduced a new mechanic and i was interested to see how it would be play, the new version is an alternate-Banshee less interessant. The Banshee is a good card fo necro since it can bring back again, but inferno can't bring back there creatures, thus a alternate-Banshee isn't good for inferno, the previous version was also interested because it was for crea/fortune deck. maybe increase it cost to 6 is necessary but don't give up on the ability.

Portios86
09-16-2014, 05:16 PM
I think that Haven's problem is that Dark is too strong and Light is not, and it's not by putting Dark in Haven that you'll fix the problem. Maybe Dark needs to be less effective, then Haven wouldn't feel like it's missing on something and we wouldn't have to sacrifice part of the lore.

Dark is more balanced than ever (due to the meta,Imo). Dark canīt be a problem in haven, mainly if haven doesnīt play dark. But as you say, light is not strong. And Iīd say the same about air, which is the 2nd school in haven.
Sunblaze and blinding light are ok cards, they are nice, so word of light is. But those cards arenīt good enough to justify picking a light hero because of light magic. You pick them because ability, stats, or other schools, but never because of light magic.

If you compare we have:
Blinding light - soulreaver (the dark spell is better in most players opinion)
word of light - geyser/insect swarm (both are better, I think itīs clear)
Sunblaze - firebolt/forked firebolt (fire spells are better)

It needs new and better cards, but deffensive spells fit better in light magic. Iīd buff some of these light spells I mentioned, and I would keep trying to design good and efficient defensive spells.
word of light could have 3 cost or 3 magic, for example. Sunblaze could have 1 magic or 1 cost, mostly 1 magic. Blinding light could remove abilities from creature while itīs enchanted.
Just my 2cents...

Btw svilleneuve, considering how good and gamebreaking (instapick) elemental uniques are, why not making a new light elemental unique?? Itīs clear that fatty Anael didnīt work, and probably isnīt going to work. By design we have one in each school, but since Anael failed and others are super good, why not reworking/buffing her?why not just creating a new light unique?
You canīt give the worst unique to the worst magic school, in the faction with the weakest creatures (or mechanics). Itīs just too much.

Also, if we stick to the barracks/buildings plan for haven, why not something like provisional golem, but this time drawing buildings? too op?

Lastly, 100% agree with you regarding havenīs lore and dark magic. But if you feel it would be necessary, just design a badass exiled haven guy. :p It would be quite popular Imo. Could even be another version of current hero, like what happened to Gazal.

Kieran/Siegfried, the exiled knight. Lets say he was blamed unfairly, it was a conspiration of some fanatical haven guys. And now he doesnīt care about all old haven laws, so he uses dark magic if necessary. A-team style, dude.

zenithale
09-16-2014, 05:40 PM
Sandor with Hikyu + Hasafah + Damran versus Takana with Raya, or Noboru with Hasafah only (because Anael is unplayable) that make my laugh a lot how balanced is it.
Oh! Sorry, I forgot Takana and Noboru are both crap, among other, and thus should not count in the global balance! Sorry! Sorry! *facepalm*

Paoloking
09-16-2014, 05:51 PM
Why is Devout Priest not light creature? All other haven healing creatures (Griffin battle priest, Healing sister and Vestel) are light creatures and Devout priest is not so he cant be buffed by new Blessing Inquisitor. It makes no sense.

Portios86
09-16-2014, 06:19 PM
why canīt he be buffed by blessing inquisitor? Am I missing something?

Paoloking
09-16-2014, 06:37 PM
why canīt he be buffed by blessing inquisitor? Am I missing something?

Blessing inquisitor buffs only Light creatures now, it was too strong before.

Source: Team stream on twitch.tv

Portios86
09-16-2014, 06:50 PM
Blessing inquisitor buffs only Light creatures now, it was too strong before.

Source: Team stream on twitch.tv

It was quite strong but haven was too weak.

Well, now itīs useless. Fine. Another 4 drop with 2 attack points. We donīt need more walls. And yeah, if devout priest isnīt light then itīs even more useless. Thx a lot.

Lets see if you can design a new bloody power ranger for stronghold. I vote for blooddragon shaman/warrior.

Ahh...I canīt find that vid, the latest I found is august r2p.

Anyway, lets hope they release some good cards for the factions and decks needing it.

I donīt care much since there are still a lot of cards to be released. But I want to remind something:
-Pre expansion release, haven is always OP, so itīs nerfed. Then the expansion is released and haven is again the weakest faction. It happened in HoN and GB, donīt know how since HoN doesnīt give a single playable card to haven, but it happened. Please, this time, try to not make it super op, I donīt want a faction beeing extremely overplayed like stronghold is right now, but please, donīt make it underpowered again and if possible, donīt make "flip a coin" cards like barracks.

blzzrd89
09-16-2014, 07:07 PM
I think that Haven's problem is that Dark is too strong and Light is not, and it's not by putting Dark in Haven that you'll fix the problem. Maybe Dark needs to be less effective, then Haven wouldn't feel like it's missing on something and we wouldn't have to sacrifice part of the lore.
Dark was never too strong except in low elo meta and with prenerfed Hakeem in Standard.

If you check the monthly leaderboard you will see a Haven player on the top. Grucha237 playing Siegfried with barracks in Open and he seems to have a very good win ratio. So why don’t you find the “problem” in BS2 Haven cardpool instead of making absurd overcreep cards like Blessing Inquisitor, which can ruin Open meta since Haven is already very strong there.

Blessing inquisitor buffs only Light creatures now, it was too strong before.
Very well then.

Leisses
09-16-2014, 07:31 PM
Well, I'd prefer they have waited a few days before showing cards stats. It's sad to see some concepts going under water after you see it.

I liked the Honor in Haven and was curious about first Succubus mechanics.

Stoneofhelp
09-16-2014, 07:43 PM
With regard to the idea of the 3 school heroes maybe replacing the current starter heroes eventually, it seems a bit strage in terms of spell schools dont you think?

Mother: Does not have dark magic whereas Stronghold, Sanctuary, Academy, AND Inferno will have dark (basically everyone except Haven and Necro will have dark magic for their basic hero:confused:)

Elizabeth and Slava: Ok, very similar to current base heroes

Jezebeth: So you said that the main school for Inferno is not actually fire but prime, and yet the base hero will have water instead of prime?

Irinia and Sandor: fine I guess except for the very strange dominance of giving dark magic to 4/6 heroes :confused:

zuom000
09-16-2014, 08:12 PM
Succubus change is meh, just banshee with better body for faction that doesn't need buffs, the first version of it was much more interesting. If honor in haven is too strong, and +1/1 for light creatures is too weak, change it to warrior, priest or other subtype.

Portios86
09-16-2014, 08:49 PM
Succubus change is meh, just banshee with better body for faction that doesn't need buffs, the first version of it was much more interesting. If honor in haven is too strong, and +1/1 for light creatures is too weak, change it to warrior, priest or other subtype.

If itīs not too strong in sanctuary I donīt know why it has to be too strong in haven but, anway, if they found it op, then I just hope they are right.

Talking about sanctuary abilities in haven, what I donīt get is why sanctuary has so many haven-ish cards. Shark protector with preemptive strike and 0 attack. Kabuki seductress, maze, blessed lake spirit...really this spirit looks completely like a haven creature. shinje warrior...a deffensive creature which always trades at least a card...

I wonder if they have put all the nice deffensive ideas in the same faction, which isnīt haven.

Voidstranger
09-16-2014, 09:05 PM
Old version of Succubus Executioner was much better. It had very interesting mechanics. Now it is bad inferno version of Banshee (bad, because Banshee doesn't require damaging creature before kill).

Paoloking
09-16-2014, 09:48 PM
If itīs not too strong in sanctuary I donīt know why it has to be too strong in haven .

Inquisitor has much better stats than sanctuary honor units. I agree he was too good and i agree with this change. I just dont know why Devout priest is not light creature and all other haven healing units are.

DZs7-
09-16-2014, 10:13 PM
Problem with Haven is that it don't have any custom mechanic*(at least in std) like every other faction has- maybe stacks are nice, but there should be some alternative(maybe some overheal or resurrection, dunno).

Succubus Executioner- looks quite bad now aka more powerful stats banshee with more situational ability.
Also I still think that Shogun should be 4 Might 3 Destiny to buff Takana and Shalan(change won't matter for Kenage or Yukiko anyway).

*well they started copying Sanctuary mechanics ;p

Portios86
09-16-2014, 10:18 PM
Btw light creatures in standard are:
-Healing sister
-lesser light elemental
-griffin battlepriest
-benevolent angel
-Anaels
-protector angel
-commander angel
-salvation angel

So far and If Iīm not missing anything, those are the light creatures we have, I guess we will get new light creatures in SOB.
From this pool, considering the cost of them and the quantity of copies we usually play, I donīt see enough light creatures with the right requeriments to justify this expensive wall which is blessing inquisitor.
Ofc it might change with cheap and useful light creatures but, actually, Iīd never play him even in my decks with commanders. The creatures affected by him donīt need the buff.

To justify this creature in our decks we are going to need at least two or three good light creatures with low cost and play 4 copies of each. Well, in my opinion. I donīt think itīs worth playing this guy only cause stats when we have a 3/3/6 shoter and angel of mercy. I like a lot the requeriments though, 3 might and 2 magic fits well in haven decks.

Btw I thought crusader watchmen could be light but no, itīs going to be the worst shoter in standard its whole life.

Kurency
09-16-2014, 10:29 PM
I am glad to see the time of Titan Workforce come to an end in standard..

Izanamiel
09-16-2014, 10:33 PM
Btw light creatures in standard are:
-Healing sister
-lesser light elemental
-griffin battlepriest
-benevolent angel
-Anaels
-protector angel
-commander angel
-salvation angel

So far and If Iīm not missing anything, those are the light creatures we have, I guess we will get new light creatures in SOB.
From this pool, considering the cost of them and the quantity of copies we usually play, I donīt see enough light creatures with the right requeriments to justify this expensive wall which is blessing inquisitor.
Ofc it might change with cheap and useful light creatures but, actually, Iīd never play him even in my decks with commanders. The creatures affected by him donīt need the buff.

To justify this creature in our decks we are going to need at least two or three good light creatures with low cost and play 4 copies of each. Well, in my opinion. I donīt think itīs worth playing this guy only cause stats when we have a 3/3/6 shoter and angel of mercy. I like a lot the requeriments though, 3 might and 2 magic fits well in haven decks.

Btw I thought crusader watchmen could be light but no, itīs going to be the worst shoter in standard its whole life.

I'm failing to see why needing light aligned creatures has anything to do with blessing inquisitor.

Portios86
09-16-2014, 10:50 PM
I am glad to see the time of Titan Workforce come to an end in standard..

What am I missing?:confused:

@Izanamiel, inquisitor only gives its blessing to light creatures. (in the last change).

Izanamiel
09-16-2014, 11:03 PM
What am I missing?:confused:

@Izanamiel, inquisitor only gives its blessing to light creatures. (in the last change).

They updated the succubus in the OP but not the inquisitor. If they did change it to light creatures, then you're right, this card is barely worth playing.

Kurency
09-16-2014, 11:49 PM
What am I missing?:confused:

Magic Deal. Taking another look at that card, I'm not 100% sure "ongoing" type cards qualify though so my statement may have been wrong.

Portios86
09-17-2014, 02:03 AM
No, youīre right, it works against workforce.:D
Thatīs good, but playing silver bullets against top decks feels extremely annoying, you perfect draws and great moves to beat them.
Anyway, it looks way better than PoV. But I donīt like that itīs another buff to basic heroes with 2 destiny points. They are already great...

Does it works against blinding light?I guess it does. Not a necessary nerf, it already has plenty of counters.

Leisses
09-17-2014, 01:26 PM
Btw light creatures in standard are:
-Healing sister
-lesser light elemental
-griffin battlepriest
-benevolent angel
-Anaels
-protector angel
-commander angel
-salvation angel

So far and If Iīm not missing anything, those are the light creatures we have, I guess we will get new light creatures in SOB.
From this pool, considering the cost of them and the quantity of copies we usually play, I donīt see enough light creatures with the right requeriments to justify this expensive wall which is blessing inquisitor.
Ofc it might change with cheap and useful light creatures but, actually, Iīd never play him even in my decks with commanders. The creatures affected by him donīt need the buff.

To justify this creature in our decks we are going to need at least two or three good light creatures with low cost and play 4 copies of each. Well, in my opinion. I donīt think itīs worth playing this guy only cause stats when we have a 3/3/6 shoter and angel of mercy. I like a lot the requeriments though, 3 might and 2 magic fits well in haven decks.

Btw I thought crusader watchmen could be light but no, itīs going to be the worst shoter in standard its whole life.

Haven 2/0/4 Shooter light aligned FTW!!!! =p

I was thinking, if Anton had better spellschools it would be an awesome late game hero.

Natchai_Ubisoft
09-17-2014, 04:13 PM
Original post now updated with up to date card stats :) (ariana, shogun, succubus, motherharpy, eternal apprentice, inquisitor, djinn, anastasya, kiril)

Portios86
09-17-2014, 05:45 PM
wow...new Anastasya counters all haven, necro and sanctuary creatures. Sheīs going to be really annoying to play against, at least she has slow schools...

Executioner succubus can kill the creatures I attack with my 1/0/1 tokens...fine, why such a buff to inferno?I might be wrong but I think itīs a strong creatue.

VeitGearmaker
09-17-2014, 05:56 PM
kiril is the true buff to inferno i guess... his stats and spellschools are quite strong, his ability depends on new fire and dark creatures but he already can play hellfire maniac one turn early or spam some lurkers and chaos lacerators (which are the two strongest 2 drops in the whole game imho
i smell upcoming rushy inferno decks... 5/1/1 maybe

Leisses
09-17-2014, 06:16 PM
I am a bit confused about Mother Harpy. In twitch you guys said she was going to drop attack from 3 to 2 but at updated image she's still with 3 attack.

bogi122
09-17-2014, 07:10 PM
http://i.imgur.com/IdU8cO0.jpg

Mushidoz
09-17-2014, 07:19 PM
Ok.. new Anastasya is absolutely beyond overpowered.

FaustOWnia
09-17-2014, 07:19 PM
Yep,now im 100% sure... air magic is the worst. God damn it, we need some good aoe dmg for air school...

Paoloking
09-17-2014, 07:46 PM
This Air spell is not bad but no one can take Air magic seriously as long as Lightning bolt has same price / requirements as soulreaver.

Portios86
09-17-2014, 08:27 PM
That air spell is worst than the sandstorm we have, that spell which doesnīt allow attacking with flyers and melee creatures. The 2 destiny frozzen maze we have in sanctuary is also better.

Air has a decent AoE spell in chain lightning and a decent single target 6 damage spell, which works like a soulreaver in some cases. Iīd simply buff those spells.
Chain lighting magic 3 instead of 4, perhaps even 3 cost. 6 damage lightning magic reduced to 3 or cost to 3, or damage to 7.

But if they wonīt touch old cards, then we need better air spells.

RoyceLin
09-17-2014, 09:26 PM
The effect of Blast of Wind is not too bad, but unfortunately there are too many ways to remove the effect of Blast of Wind: Focused Mind, Magic Deal, etc. The most simple ways are using the event Week of Dead or Sacrificial Altar on the enchanted creature, which again shows the power of Inferno and Stronghold. Therefore, I would suggest at least adding an effect to the spell: The enchanted creature cannot be targeted (until your next turn). This will also make the spell marginally useful if enchanting a friendly creature.

jbS1ash
09-17-2014, 09:35 PM
That air spell is worst than the sandstorm we have, that spell which doesnīt allow attacking with flyers and melee creatures. The 2 destiny frozzen maze we have in sanctuary is also better.

Air has a decent AoE spell in chain lightning and a decent single target 6 damage spell, which works like a soulreaver in some cases. Iīd simply buff those spells.
Chain lighting magic 3 instead of 4, perhaps even 3 cost. 6 damage lightning magic reduced to 3 or cost to 3, or damage to 7.

But if they wonīt touch old cards, then we need better air spells.

I 100% agree with you, that this new air spell is completely useless, but don't think, that old spells needs to change. They are good for their raritities.

Aranarth78
09-17-2014, 10:39 PM
What's up with Anastasya ? She had a crappy ability to put 1 counter for 0, now she put 2 for 2. Is that an improvement in some way ?

Giving up a card for this crappy ability on a hero that has such heavy spell schools won't make her good at all. Is Simon afraid necro might be somewhat remotely good in any forseeable futur ?

Everything revealed so far cost too much: Anastasya's ability should cost 1, the fortune 2, and the crippling lich 4. Or you can just boost Kiril and give earth better spells to improve Stronghold !

budynzmajonezem
09-18-2014, 12:51 AM
Eternal Apprentice costs 4 now and that is a nice, well balanced creature.
Also I think flavor-wise Shogun should deal damage only to enemy creatures - it should work like a focused blast when played on a melee, not like area blast which is inferno ability. A creature potentially damaging its allies doesn't really suit sanctuary.
Blessing Inquisitor without any other good Light creatures is crap, pls don't.
Anastasya's ability is ok right now I think, may be fun in crippling decks.

Starwatcher1625
09-18-2014, 03:25 AM
Haven is sufficiently bad that they need to go through all the cards released thus far and sporadically buff them. I understand they normally like to change power levels of current factions with new card additions, but the difference in quality between the foundations of say, Stronghold/Inferno and Haven will make this tough. It doesn't help that when I think of all the best defensive cards out thus far, most of them are in Sanctuary. It's like they don't have any good ideas left over after making a pass through Sanctuary first and start on Haven. Hell, even Inferno has some good defensive cards that are better then anything Haven has (Lurker).

Even if Haven turns out to be, shockingly, good in Sins. I do not relish the idea of variability between haven decks to be near zero since all the decks will be ... 4 copies of this Sins card .... 4 copies of that Sins card .... 4 copies of this other Sins card.

For the love of whatever you find holy Ubi, buff elite squire / crusader watchman.

Stoneofhelp
09-18-2014, 06:58 AM
Therefore, I would suggest at least adding an effect to the spell: The enchanted creature cannot be targeted (until your next turn). This will also make the spell marginally useful if enchanting a friendly creature.

+1

VeitGearmaker
09-18-2014, 09:24 AM
For the love of whatever you find holy Ubi, buff elite squire / crusader watchman.

do you realise that those 2 would be playable in a meta with less insect swarms? not great without week of training but buffing them might make cassandra/sandal rushlock even stronger in open

imho haven needs something like blessed lake spirit
haven is extremely vulnurable to spells (specially AoE) and i guess that's a design choice, but since every deck HAS to play spells currently (i miss manastorm -.-) haven will need something to actually prevent removal (untargedable doesn't help atm)

i would like to see some priest that has an effect like "if any spell kills more than one friendly creature with damage, those creatures are left with one health instead and this priest dies"... a mini angel of salvation that is actually payable and would buff healing effects wich are traditionally weak in every CCG

Portios86
09-18-2014, 03:28 PM
@starwatcher Agree, looks like one of my posts xD
@veitgearmaker open doesnīt matter, it shouldnīt. You can build a bunch of broken decks in open, open wonīt be balanced, never.

Haven has some base problems, I donīt like making walls of text and be the guy complaining so Iīll try to make it short:
-Haven has extremely high potential, it could be super strong easily, but it doesnīt have enough good cards in standard.
Collector, treasurer and cass imperial devotion are good examples. Those are the best cards we got in base set 2. However, as you can see, they lost their synergy. Collector isnīt that good without rushy cards like wolf captain and glory. Treasurer isnīt that good without fortune lock like pillage, prison or cards like cosmic realignement. Cass imperial more or less the same as treasurer. 1 attack creatures werenīt that bad thx to week of training, but the event is out of STD.

-Light magic is super weak.
Even with sunblaze and blinding light, this school is too weak compared to dark, earth, fire and water. Itīs the only school with a useless unique elemental creature. We even lost one of the best spells there, the one which does 3 damage to the whole row.

-Haven "abilities" are overstimated by the devs, Imo. We trade a lot of stats, like attack points, to have weak abilities like "heal 1 to your hero", a couple of extra retaliation points, healing 2, guard (be it combat/ranged and so on).
An example could be the 3/3/6 griffin marksman. Compared to archlich, itīs losing life drain 2 in exchange of two miserable retaliation points. Crusader watchmen is potentially trading all its attack points in exchange of having +1 ret and +1 hp.

-attack and HP threshold.
When your average attack is 1 or 2, even if you play your creatures in the same row, it needs to many attacks to kill the average 2 drop like lets say succubus. Other factions can kill a 2 drop with just one attack as long as they use week of mercenaries, a cheap spell or without any help if itīs a rushy creature (like juggernauth).
Most 2 drops in other factions are quite good and have 4+ hp. This is the most important threshold in the game. The ability to survive geysers and insect swarms.

-Highly situational cards. A wartent is more or less always good. A garrison is potentially a completely dead card. What if garrison makes you draw a card when it comes into play?

Looking at these issues, it seems hard to balance, it seems that it needs a lot of work, but I donīt think so...

Ofc I would buff old cards and release new great cards, but lets say itīs not the case, what haven needs:
-Light magic, if a defensive school, it has to be "op". Same for defensive creatures.
We have MTGīs white colour as reference. Cass imperial devoution is on that level. White has a lot of useless defensive cards in MTG, but it also got awesome "defensive" cards in its history.
Serra angel was more defensive than Sengirīs vampire, but it was a lot better. Orimīs chant was/is insanely good. kitchen finks is a dam good creature and it has the ability to heal your hero.


What I mean is, something can be defensive but strong at the same time. If the cost and requeriments are low and the effect is big, itīs always going to work. As defensive cards, itīs fair to make them cheap and stupidly good at what they do, because defending is the worst thing you can do and is highly situational (when defending, you are behind, waiting for your opponentīs moves).

-Haven creatures canīt be overcosted or their abilities overstimated.
We have the best players in the vip team and devs have a lot of experience about this game. Itīs time to value havenīs abilities accordingly. Regeneration could be back for example, but not at the cost that seraph paid in base set one. It was a 3/1/5 if Iīm not wrong, without inmunity to retaliation, at 4 cost/might, with just regen 1 I think...
crusader watchmen should only pay 1 attack at worst for having +1 ret and +1 hp. Griffin marksman 3/3/6 could have regen 1 at least, or something else, but not just a couple of extra retaliation points... and the list goes...you know what I mean.

Just those 2 things: better light spells/haven fortunes and a new value to haven abilities (or new haven abilities, but properly valued). Is not so hard, Imo, mainly if they look a bit at MTGīs white color. So, even if Iīd buff old cards, is not really necessary, they just have to know how to value defensive cards. And they have to design new haven cards with assurance.
The last 2 expansions, they had op versions of haven they say. The faction remained the weakest faction. They shouldnīt be so affraid of making it op because, in the end, every faction (but haven) has a lot of gamebraking op stuff.

Cainium
09-18-2014, 05:17 PM
The answer is not releasing OP defensive cards against OP aggressive cards.

The solution is to tone down OP aggressive cards OR tone down rush-decks control options.

All that started with 5T where Ishuma was able to spam free "firebolts" with his/her abilty and Kelthor got more control options than Necro ever had, but kept his strong attackers.

And the devs are still releasing cards like Bloodclaw Shaman which are more controlish than a Banshee if played properly. THATs the issue with Haven and Necro, nothing else.

Necro is only playable in GB 'cause it got his own rush-option with Seria stacks. Without them, Necro would be as unplayable as Haven 'cause every other faction, except haven, had better attackers and better cost efficient removal.

"Blocking" must become a viable option again. Every time i have to block with Necro/Haven i have to think about "if" my opponent has low cost spell card X or not in his hand. "If" he has it i wasted a complete 3/4 ressource turn for nothing and the game is lost at that point, if he has not, i'm just lucky.

Remember.. we have a rush dominated meta since THREE expansions (GB, HoN, 5T) and there is nothing done about that. If this issue would be addressed Haven and Necro would become much stronger by themselves.

Portios86
09-18-2014, 06:11 PM
But Cainium, thatīs the same. I mean, releasing op defensive cards is like nerfing ofensive cards, without nerfing anything (which seems is the problem here, they donīt want to nerf).

Agree, the meta is quite rushy, but the worst thing is that blocking isnīt really an option, blockers are always removed or killed due to week of mercenaries (no clue why is this event here in STD), cheap spells, war tents, ultra cheap soulreaver called sacrificial altar, snowballing mechanics like bloodthirst, extra abilities like BS shaman, insect swarm killing enemy creatures but not yours...

However, haven canīt be stronger by itself since it is a slow faction without dark magic. Are we supposed to control with light magic? if so, we need way better spells.
So, in my opinion, haven needs op defensive cards. Well, with op, I mean really strong cards. At the level of hellfire maniac, shredder, crusher, altar, lurker, IS, geyser, workforce, rakshasa scout, blessed lake spirit, raya...
Currently, haven hasnīt a single card as good as those. Perhaps imperial devotion (only for cass, sadly), collector, treasurer and barracks (but not in their current state, they might be better with new cards).

bogi122
09-18-2014, 06:14 PM
This ''Dragon Cyrstal'' card will be some extra card or normal 1/100 card from Sins of Betrayal ?
http://i.imgur.com/x9UUhEy.jpg

I mean. If you get it automatically does it include to the normal cards or just like a tokens from Griffin Bane ?

Portios86
09-18-2014, 06:32 PM
That would be a great "coin" for 1st player :p

Lorenthiel
09-18-2014, 08:27 PM
There is an answer :)

https://duelofchampions.com/en/news/dev-diary-sins-of-betrayal

Cainium
09-18-2014, 08:59 PM
But Cainium, thatīs the same. I mean, releasing op defensive cards is like nerfing ofensive cards, without nerfing anything (which seems is the problem here, they donīt want to nerf).


It's not exactly the same.

If you tone down rushes, every card that currently exists which is "slow" gets more value. Haven got Tools against almost every control based deck. Can't be targeted, enchantment destroying creatures etc.. Their problems are rushes 'cause blocking doesn't work.

If you release OP cards for Haven and Necro just to bring them in line the game gets much faster, and a faster game favors rush. Making slower cards more worthless, reducing the "viable" card pool, diversity and supports "power creep" (newest cards are always the strongest or must-.haves to play competetive).

That is not good for the game and most of those effect don't occur if you nerf whats to strong.

About the magic schools: Light is "current" weak, yes. But why? Light is slow. If you slow down the game by nerfing rushes slow gets better. Slava, has Fire and Air as secondary schools. So he has good control options with Blinding Light, Lightning Bolt, Firebolt, Forked Firebolt etc. and even access to a board wipe.

SonOfMalassa
09-18-2014, 09:09 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Do not give to 2nd player the possibility to deal 1 damage! That will make such cards, as GOBLIN SCOUT or MOONSILK SPIDER or CHAOS IMP almost unplayable.

Daefon
09-18-2014, 09:11 PM
Gonna give a quick review of the cards in their current state:

Ariana, Chosen of the Void: Like it, solid unique

Eternal Apprentice: A lot more playable now as a 4-cost creature. Looked weak before but now looks spot on

Shogun: I like high cost cards with comes into play effects. Overall, this card doesn't seem that strong, but playtesting will have to prove that. Maybe 1 more hp would help.

Executioner Succubus: The current version seems very fitting. The previous one seemed like an all-in win or lose card. Requirements seem very high. I think 3 magic would make more sense (similar to Death Seal)

Blessing Inquisitor: Looks very weak right now. I think it should be all light creatures or all adjacent creatures. Both conditions makes this too situational.

Mother Harpy: Looks OK. Will depend greatly on what harpies are available

Arcane Master Djinn: I love this card, plz don't change it :-)

Week of the Elementals: don't really care about it one way or the other.

Anastasya: The change did her a lot of good. She was unplayable before. Now her ability can be useful late in the game.

Irina: Nothing special

Kiril: Looks very strong, if only for his stats and spell schools.

Anton: Needs play to see how good this is.

Sandor: Looks like a strong spell school combo but may not mesh well with Stronghold play style.

Elisabeth: Nothing special

Magic Deal: Better than Price of the Void, but still doubtfull if it will see play.

The Shadow of Death: Looks too situational to be good. 0 attack creatures are often not a threat. Cheap Death does what this does better and cheaper

Blast of Winds: Looks weak.


EDIT: just read the patch notes, the changes to 1st/2nd turn were much required and I'm happy they made it in.
I really like the balance changes. I expect Invokers to become very powerful now and I guess they will be popular.
Kinda dissapointed with the daily changes (no wild cards). I'm afraid this will make it a lot harder to be a F2P player.

Portios86
09-18-2014, 09:32 PM
@Daefon you still get wildcards via infernal pit. The economy change might be worse or better, depends on how you look at it, but the economy will be fine, every player will be getting wildcards, gold, pit cards and achievment cards.

Daefon
09-18-2014, 09:36 PM
I'm guessing it will be worse. I just did a quick calculation and a regular pack is worth 2.65 wild cards. So that means if the daily quests now give 15k per day, you still come out at a loss.

EDIT: for the ppl that will challenge the 2.65 number, heres how I came up with it. A pack with 8 commons, 3 uncommons and 1 rare gives 2300 gold and thus 2.3 wild cards. However, the gold can buy you more packs. It takes 6.5 packs to buy an extra, so I multiplied the 2.3 by 7.5/6.5 and ignored further iterations since those are likely to be marginal anyway

MoritzBradtke
09-18-2014, 09:51 PM
You better release some low decent light drops or that blessing inquisitor will be rubish, i dont understand the nerv being adjencent isnt so good most of the time why had u to nerf him? He will be only usefull in decks with lots of light creatures now he will be useless in stack stacks since he doesnt work with any current stacks, i dont see the point here oh and devot priest being not light makes no sense but i woudnt wonder if u dont change him to a light creature but also dont exspect me to spend money on the Expansion if it turns out to be a mess up again foe heaven i also still miss a fix for the bad heaven synergies but oook

Portios86
09-18-2014, 10:04 PM
But Daefon, even if we get less stuff for free, we are still getting everything for free. Well not seals but seals are just a faster way to get the cards you want with money.
I know itīs a nerf to the economy system but itīs still quite generous and good. Well, in my opinion at least.

@Moritz lets hope the inquisitor is just a "filler", cause if thatīs a good haven card supposed to make the faction competitive again, then I donīt want to see the bad haven cards...
Canīt tell you why, but Iīm still hoping to see something as simple as the 2/0/4 shoter, fits very well in haven.

Leisses
09-18-2014, 10:20 PM
Since you are calculating it will be 2.7 already after second trading (after it the value really gets marginal). But you have to take in consideration that you will get gold for playing too. Considering you can make 3k gold for 1 hour of game played.If you play 1h/day you'll make enough to get 3 wildcards/day. BUT, and this is a big BUT, you will have some cards that you'll want to keep, in special when a new expansion comes out. So 1h of gameplay won't usually award you enough gold to make 3WCs.BUT, (yep, we have a lot of these big BUTs around since we are just speculating here) there will be other options to make gold: jackpot (they will be played a lot more now); packs from Swisses (although I'm not sure how tickets will be granted from now on); play for more than an hour; double gold for an hour itens.I think most people will be able to make over 3 WC/day. And those that won't wouldn't be able to complete WC quests anyway so in the end we will have a slight increase in WC production. The only thing that I'm not sure is about how we will be able to grab swiss tickets from now on.

pytawidmo
09-19-2014, 03:34 AM
About the new cards, the Shogun is not very interesting, it looks like someone thought "we have Ariana with attached Void Ripple and Banshee with Soul Reaver, lets do some other creature with mini-Geyser attached".
I thought it would be somewhat more interesting, and the name suggested some Honor oriented mechanic, at least for me.
It even does not fit in Kenage Might/Fate deck, since it requires 3 Magic to deploy. It would be nice to have a Naga that can imitate Geyser in non-magic deck, plays well with Kenage ability and wouldn't be bad in Takane's either.

The Inquisitor - unless we get a lot of playable Light creatures, and maybe some (most?) of Haven old ones turned to Light, why not just make it adjacted Haven creatures (or maybe just Humans since most of Angels have decent stats anw)?

The Air school enchant doesn't look powerfull, probably would be one of those cards that no decent deck contains, since there are better cards to have.

Rest of the cards looks quite nice, Mother Harpy, Kiril and Elementals event would ofcourse depend on other new creatures (looking forward to see some interesting harpies).

I'm only a bit worried that current Anastasya's cripple (2 counters) will be hard counter against Double attack Cyclops (i.e. Cyclop Brawler mostly with exactly 2 attack value).

Daefon
09-19-2014, 07:03 AM
Since you are calculating it will be 2.7 already after second trading (after it the value really gets marginal). But you have to take in consideration that you will get gold for playing too. Considering you can make 3k gold for 1 hour of game played.If you play 1h/day you'll make enough to get 3 wildcards/day. BUT, and this is a big BUT, you will have some cards that you'll want to keep, in special when a new expansion comes out. So 1h of gameplay won't usually award you enough gold to make 3WCs.BUT, (yep, we have a lot of these big BUTs around since we are just speculating here) there will be other options to make gold: jackpot (they will be played a lot more now); packs from Swisses (although I'm not sure how tickets will be granted from now on); play for more than an hour; double gold for an hour itens.I think most people will be able to make over 3 WC/day. And those that won't wouldn't be able to complete WC quests anyway so in the ed we will have a slight increase in WC production. The only thing that I'm not sure is about how we will be able to grab swiss tickets from now on.

Yes, I neglected a number of factors, like being able to get gold through other means. I also neglected there is a chance to get an epic in a pack, which probably puts a pack at 2.9 wild cards. Also, a pack can give you a card which yo still needed and can be worth 1-21 psuedo wild cards. I just wanted to put out a number to be able to compare the old reward to the new, to make things more tangible. So if the replacement quest gives 15k gold (which i doubt), it will be roughly equal to the old quest.

There is also a very big factor neither of us mentioned. You cannot simply convert all your gold into wild cards. At some point you need to start saving up to get cards of the next expansion as a F2P player. You need at least 500k gold to get a decent startup for an expansion.

Luhorox
09-19-2014, 12:04 PM
About the new cards, the Shogun is not very interesting

I just wish we didn't get Nagas only all the time. I want Kirin to be next epic card. Stop flooding Sanctuary with Nagas. They could expand Foxes, Yetis etc. but no... they add more Nagas. They could even do a new race (Lotus Flower Dancers flyers as Sanct doesn't have any).

Leisses
09-19-2014, 02:55 PM
But Daefon, that won't reduce the WC number you'll get in the long term. You're just taking the decision to wait until you get it.And if you want to save gold for the next expansion you'll probably want to save WCs too.I really think that IF we are going to have reduced WCs it will probably be from less Swisses tickets available and not from the WC changing from quests to Infernal Pit. EDIT: Tournament Tickets will be available for Gold.http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/921071-Official-Tournament-Tickets-will-be-available-for-Gold-after-SoB-Launch!

Portios86
09-19-2014, 03:59 PM
I just wish we didn't get Nagas only all the time. I want Kirin to be next epic card. Stop flooding Sanctuary with Nagas. They could expand Foxes, Yetis etc. but no... they add more Nagas. They could even do a new race (Lotus Flower Dancers flyers as Sanct doesn't have any).

Well painted nagas like shogun or sayama champion are cool, Imo. I just donīt like priestess, I find some arts in sanctuary quite ugly.

Anyway, even if they games is based on heroes 6 I donīt know why did they chose this faction. I like sanctuary, but I think itīs the least popular faction in the whole saga, and they have to print a lot of awesome nagas, kappas, spirits and kirins if they want to make it popular.
I donīt know a single player who prefers sanctuary over dark elves faction, dwarfs, silvans or whatever...

VeitGearmaker
09-19-2014, 07:24 PM
I donīt know a single player who prefers sanctuary over dark elves faction, dwarfs, silvans or whatever...

well base set 3 is a nice point to completely remove sanctuary and replace it :P
when seekers get ruled out by 3 spellschool heroes we should have enough watermagic users i guess

Portios86
09-19-2014, 08:32 PM
well base set 3 is a nice point to completely remove sanctuary and replace it :P
when seekers get ruled out by 3 spellschool heroes we should have enough watermagic users i guess

And not many people would cry, but I think itīd be sad.
I vote for a new expansion which has only cards for a new faction and doesnīt stop the develop of normal expansions (with cards for every other expansion).
It would be a lot of work but I think itīs more than possible. Itīs also possible to make new factions inside the factions we have by creating alliances, it could be the theme of a new expansion, where silvan elves join haven to fight dark elves that joined inferno. Then dwarfs join stronghold for whatever reason. It wouldnīt make these factions stronger, just bring new heroes and creatures with same mechanics but very different arts...

Xyx0rz
09-19-2014, 08:51 PM
Shogun
Great art, of course, but why does a naga with a sword throw a (half) fireball? I don't get the flavor at all.

Elisabeth
Beautiful "oil painting" art but... is it me or does she have the longest forearm ever? :eek:

Magic school balancing
I really hope that hero design isn't influenced by the perceived power of certain magic schools. If a school is "too good" or "too weak" for a particular hero, then maybe the school needs adjustment instead of the hero.

svilleneuve
Great to hear explanation directly from a designer! :)

Favorite magic schools
All "basic" heroes should have their faction's favorite magic school if they're to replace the Seekers, otherwise it's confusing. Having Mother Namtaru, Asha's Nightmare as the "poster girl" for Necropolis is really weird because she can't even cast her faction's favorite spells.

Aligned neutrals
It's nice to see that every school gets one now, but Light got a useless one. 6 Might is problematic in the current meta, quite possibly because the 4 Might creatures are so good. If you extrapolate from Bloodsnake Shaman, a 6 Might creature would have to just win the game immediately.

bogi122
09-19-2014, 11:38 PM
http://i58.tinypic.com/10wpgm0.jpg

Portios86
09-20-2014, 03:05 AM
Interesting card. Canīt say how good or weak it is, but looks strong.
Would be nice to know what a better player thinks about this new inferno card...

Isnīt a win more card in some decks?
Is it good in a control deck?
Is it a tool for rush decks to get more fuel?
any inferno otk/combo deck in mind or coming in the new expansion?you know, the kind of deck which needs to draw a lot...

Btw, it doesnīt say "cant be prevented", can I play this with a stone shield?

Mushidoz
09-20-2014, 03:26 AM
First thing that came to mind with that sacrification thing was the dark spell "Shared Agony".. so you can deal damage to enemy creatures and get 5 cards. Interesting combo, but still doesn't seem that powerful to me at first glance. To be continued.

superktro
09-20-2014, 12:21 PM
intresting cards but anastasya seems a bit op, i suggest give her 2 crippling counters for 3 resources or go back to the original no cost 1 counter
It might be intresting that she be given the ability, discard any no of cards from your hand, put that many crippling counter on creatures the way you like

FaustOWnia
09-20-2014, 05:59 PM
Sacrafication would be good if inferno could get some healing factor in new exp. If not - still prefer golden horseshoe

kenez14
09-20-2014, 07:20 PM
@FaustOWnia Healing for Inferno? Are you insane?

Paoloking
09-20-2014, 07:54 PM
http://momcards.fr/uploads/new_uploads/RenaissanceFR.png



Take Light creature from your graveyard and deploy it for free.

MoritzBradtke
09-20-2014, 09:31 PM
Omg sexy look at the artwork, i see lots of uses for this Card.... love it, probably no Card u would Play 4 copies of like blinding light but i see use of 2-3 on most haven decks, same as blinding light, has a good synergy with Blessing Inquisitor of course, see it being played with angel fatties next to a Blessing Inquisitor a lot

Portios86
09-20-2014, 11:07 PM
Omg sexy look at the artwork, i see lots of uses for this Card.... love it, probably no Card u would Play 4 copies of like blinding light but i see use of 2-3 on most haven decks, same as blinding light, has a good synergy with Blessing Inquisitor of course, see it being played with angel fatties next to a Blessing Inquisitor a lot

I think itīs a very poor and weak card. You are paying 4 which is more or less the cost of the card you want to resurrect. And itīs a rare...a bad rare Imo. Looks like a late game card because you need a dead light creature, it costs 4 and has 3 magic, even if I can use it on angel commander Iīm just playing a commander at 4 cost, but late in the game.
Itīs also countered by graveyard hate cards/events.

Itīs a really weak card and I doubt it will see play. Still a lot of cards to be released so inquisitor still could be good, but not this spell, this is plain weak unless we get a light banshee.

Canīt wait to see the "good" haven cards, mostly 2 and 3 drops.
Honestly, I hope they have something else to buff light magic because this spell looks horribly bad...

MoritzBradtke
09-20-2014, 11:26 PM
I think itīs a very poor and weak card. You are paying 4 which is more or less the cost of the card you want to resurrect. And itīs a rare...a bad rare Imo. Looks like a late game card because you need a dead light creature, it costs 4 and has 3 magic, even if I can use it on angel commander Iīm just playing a commander at 4 cost, but late in the game.
Itīs also countered by graveyard hate cards/events.

Itīs a really weak card and I doubt it will see play. Still a lot of cards to be released so inquisitor still could be good, but not this spell, this is plain weak unless we get a light banshee.

Canīt wait to see the "good" haven cards, mostly 2 and 3 drops.
Honestly, I hope they have something else to buff light magic because this spell looks horribly bad...

yes i know ist not very strong but ist usefull at last and haven is a lategame faction so it fits heaven well, blinding light isnt the best spell either and stll it sees some Play, i think the Card isnt so bad after all but of course it depends on other Cards we get.... and ist Looks really good (: artwork is awesome, it is also a good way to get a benevolent angel back on the field to protect ure humany from being geysied or ice meteored, what is also quite important for heaven

Portios86
09-20-2014, 11:56 PM
Canīt tell you how good or bad it is until I see all the light creatures but I think itīs going to be in weak side of the card pool. The only hope for this card is a light creature with insane etb effect (like banshee). Perhaps Iīm also missing a combo or synergy here, but with 4 cost I doubt it.
Anyway, if itīs a great card, better. I just canīt find it interesting or strong enough, but who knows...this spell and inquisitor might work well depending on the new light creatures we get.

Honesty, until I see a really strong haven card Iīm just going to hate every mediocre card or filler. Donīt know why but itīs becoming personal, haven isnīt even my favourite faction, itīs probably academy, but it hurts how haven canīt be competitive enough after bs2+2 expansions, where stronghold is stronger everyday. They fixed sanctuary even if only yukiko is strong enough.
I know they can fix haven.
I just expected to see the strong light/haven cards first, not this pre-release nerfed inquisitor and this weak (at least for me) light spell.

But itīs not that bad...if they donīt show us great new haven/light cards itīs due to two possible reasons:
-They arenīt going to release a big number of good haven/light cards.
-They will make it competitive again, but they are still working, hard, on this new cards.

I think itīs the last one.

Xyx0rz
09-21-2014, 12:00 AM
Resurrection is bad. It's very unlikely that you'll have something in your graveyard that's better than an actual 4-drop, and it can't even bring back uniques. This same spell has existed in Magic: The Gathering for 20 years (also for 4 mana) and never saw tournament play.

MoritzBradtke
09-21-2014, 12:42 AM
i just dont get how they choose which creatures are light and which not.... we have 2 priest Cards that arent light, it is supposed to be an Advantage? can be disadvantage? some decissions i dont get here

eladmirable
09-21-2014, 01:48 AM
About time they give us control of the graveyard, now we are talking. I have so many combos in my head right now. Hehe haven might come back after all.

Portios86
09-21-2014, 02:24 AM
i just dont get how they choose which creatures are light and which not.... we have 2 priest Cards that arent light, it is supposed to be an Advantage? can be disadvantage? some decissions i dont get here

Honest answer?
Ok, since inquisitor affected non light creatures too in its first released design, this "light creature" synergy is probably something new that they are testing. Which feels bad because it looks like they donīt know what to do with haven/light then.
But this is just my opinion and I could be (I hope) completely wrong.

Magic creature is a disadvantage right now, itīs weird, I know. Elemental magic can be worse or better, depends on cards played and the cards to be released yet.
Take hikyu as example. Fire is bad there against ice meteor, but itīs good if you play that fire ongoing which does the "extra" damage to the opponent, I donīt remember the name of that card...

Well if itīs me, I just prefer non magic creatures, and if they are magic better without element. Not that dark is a good element to have, for example.

I just donīt know what are they planing.
For example, a good light creature to use with the inquisitor would be a 2/0/4 magic shoter. But those shoter donīt have any element, they are just magic shoters.
I donīt know if, for example, they are designing a 1 drop stackable to boost barrackīs strategy.
I donīt know if they are designing some kind of building tutor for haven (we have a neutral tutor at 3 destiny 3 cost I think), to make garrison more playable.
I donīt know if they are going to work again on the retaliation theme, humans and buildings...
Looks like, perhaps, they are working on a new theme, light creatures. And Iīm worried because I donīt think the humans+barracks strategy is competitive enough, and the retaliation theme isnīt working well (so far)....and this would be bringing a new mechanic and theme instead of making old themes stronger. Unless itīs mixed with humans, for example, I donīt know if it will work.

Srsly, as I have said before, I would just look at MTG, white color, best white cards, mechanics which could work here...

For example, in MTG we have white spells to kill target creature with attack of 4 or higher (we could have a 3 attack version here). Ofc we have cheap removals too, and wrath of god, but cheap removals are like altar, they have a drawback, they give something to the opponent (search a land/heal the enemy) or defensive requeriments (creature has to be attacking to be removed). And not just removals...there are tons of nice white spells.

Well Iīm not going to give a lot of examples, itīs already a wall of text and they are good enough to not need my help, I just hope they listen the community, and I hope they really put effort to not make it op or up, just balanced and competitive.
Honestly I got quite angry when I read that inquisitor was going to have just honor 1, a good, simple creature which wouldnīt be the key Imo, but still got nerfed and reworked into something that we canīt even understand because we donīt know about new light creatures.

At least for me, it means "we arenīt going to give you anything too good". And then I think, "were they so worried when designing BS shaman, thrall, lava spawn, wartent, might of the tribe, the new vampire with crippling, blessed lake spirit, propagandist, meteor, forked, hikyu, toghrul..." Not saying all those cards are op, but they are clearly strong even if you havnīt played them, as good or better than honor 1 inquisitor, at least most of them.

Portios86
09-21-2014, 02:26 AM
About time they give us control of the graveyard, now we are talking. I have so many combos in my head right now. Hehe haven might come back after all.

With a 4 cost which only targets light creatures and canīt be used on uniques??

Not trying to be sarcastic, just...could you share your ideas? I canīt find a single good combo with this...perhaps with lesser light elemental and mass rage? I hope itīs not that, because the last thing I want to see is haven represented by trollrage decks.

Starwatcher1625
09-21-2014, 02:47 AM
While speaking of defensive oriented spells Haven could use to get a boost ... just in case Devs read this at all ... How about Avenging Shield, at same cost/req, but instead able to enchant on hostile creatures. Martyr at a lower cost could be interesting so it isn't big tempo loss.

Honestly at this point, considering how stupid stronghold has become and how weak Haven been for so long, new cards should be erring on the side of too strong instead of too weak. For the Haven / Light cards shown so far to just be okay ... the unreleased Light creatures are going to have to be just utterly stupid. Like all BS Shaman levels of stupid.

On a different topic; I'm surprised at mentioned nerfs. I thought for sure bloodthirst was going to be changed to only proc on combat damage. Not this time I guess.

Paoloking
09-21-2014, 04:54 AM
You cant tell this new light spell is bad untill you will see complete haven / light magic SoB set.

superktro
09-21-2014, 09:43 AM
everyone though that bloodshark warrior is not a big deal of a card only to be proved wrong when we met his fellow shamans and toghrul
so hope to see some cool light creatures. Likesd the aRTWORK of ressurection. Though not of the level of blessing inquisitor, still had a feel of homm V in them, my favourite heroes game

Xyx0rz
09-21-2014, 02:46 PM
Wait... "créature de lumičre" only?! Ugh... That shifts my evaluation from "just bad" to "ridiculously unplayable" unless there's a 10/10/10 Light creature (non-unique!) in the new set. Maybe then I could discard it with Night of the Rising Moon/Day of Fortune and reanimate it with Renaissance.

I hope Haven doesn't get balanced just by adding a few very strong cards, though. That would just lead to one specific overpowered Haven deck that people would complain about. Like Kieran Barracks: The Revenge.

Portios86
09-21-2014, 04:03 PM
But barrack decks arenīt even T1 or competitive, just a coin flip. Might be op with new good humans though.
The only way to make this spell good is, as you say, having a ridiculous light fatty to reanimate as fast as possible or, as I said, having a light creature with bansheeīs etb effect level.

Bloodshark warrior was called "a new sahaar brute" which means it was considered good even before playing the card.

rabocan
09-21-2014, 04:33 PM
Wait... "créature de lumičre" only?! Ugh... That shifts my evaluation from "just bad" to "ridiculously unplayable" unless there's a 10/10/10 Light creature (non-unique!) in the new set. Maybe then I could discard it with Night of the Rising Moon/Day of Fortune and reanimate it with Renaissance.


Light only is to make the spell haven only. Doesn't really make that big of a difference for heaven , there aren't more than 1, maybe 2 non light creatures you would ever want to use this for (scattershot marksman, treasurer). It could be light/human to get just about same desired effect (iirc only non haven human creature potentials are dervishes and wizards).

Some cards i like here. Anton could be strong , but probably needs 1 more stackable. . Kiril could be just ridiculous with his 6extra 1 drops. Okay void wraiths and lesser fire elemntals woudl need 2 weeks of elemntals to be 1 drops but could be still pretty whack. Or it could just get insect swarmed every other game. Speculation is always nice but obviously too early to tell how things shape out.

My biggest concern is that they'll try to introduce whole new themes for factions without fully fleshing out the ones already introduced. Haven going full on light theme tihs expansion and existing human-barrack themes get jack. Inferno going for fire/dark? and barely working breeder theme forgotten. Stronghold getting harpy theme and... well this is fine, bloodthirst can go rot. Totally basing this prediction on one card per faction.

bogi122
09-21-2014, 06:58 PM
http://jolstatic.fr/www/captures/1809/1/97501.png

Portios86
09-21-2014, 07:11 PM
This fortune doesnīt fit academy but looks well, Imo.

Btw I think itīs quite better than the light spell.

S9TF1
09-21-2014, 08:09 PM
Sigh, yet another card which is clearly superior to Haven's.

Reasons:
-It gives card advantage (trade 1 to get 2).
-Prime creatures are both plenty and powerful.
-Tailor made for a powerful lategame(Djinns Cloudshapers say hello).
-Very competitive price and requirements. Almost any hero could (and should!) use it.

Portios86
09-21-2014, 09:33 PM
Sigh, yet another card which is clearly superior to Haven's.

Reasons:
-It gives card advantage (trade 1 to get 2).
-Prime creatures are both plenty and powerful.
-Tailor made for a powerful lategame(Djinns Cloudshapers say hello).
-Very competitive price and requirements. Almost any hero could (and should!) use it.

I watched the whole academy card pool a few days ago to see what could work with a protector djinn we have (itīs a 2/1/6 primal which reads "friendly primal creatures canīt be affected by enemy enchants" or something like that).

The number and quality of prime creatures we have in academy is certainly quite good.
So, yes, I could see this fortune played. Not sure if itīs really strong or worth, but looks like itīs, mainly for Hakeem which is already a nice hero.
This card can be interesting.

Oh, and yes, so far, itīs a lot better than the light spell, still need to see what light creatures are they releasing though...

bogi122
09-21-2014, 10:26 PM
http://i.imgur.com/uuKdmpE.png

eladmirable
09-21-2014, 11:48 PM
With a 4 cost which only targets light creatures and canīt be used on uniques??

Not trying to be sarcastic, just...could you share your ideas? I canīt find a single good combo with this...perhaps with lesser light elemental and mass rage? I hope itīs not that, because the last thing I want to see is haven represented by trollrage decks.

Here ill give you a basic idea, discard angel of salvation( not unique) or light alined anael angel (unique creature) to the graveyard and especial summon it using this card as early as turn 4 or 3.
To place that pressure on the opponent. Im not gonna talk about the other two combos that i have because cards are still subject to change.

zuom000
09-22-2014, 12:12 AM
Here ill give you a basic idea, discard angel of salvation( not unique) or light alined anael angel (unique creature) to the graveyard and especial summon it using this card as early as turn 4 or 3.
To place that pressure on the opponent. Im not gonna talk about the other two combos that i have because cards are still subject to change.

Even now with good hand u can put new anael and angel commander in 4/5th turn on cassandra.

Academy got next recursion card, even if that's more necro theme, I hope there will be better cards for academy and haven in next expansion

Cainium
09-22-2014, 02:04 AM
I'll hope there are some new necro resurrection cards...

Light magic resurrection, ok, fits the theme. But academy? Really?

Do we really reach the point where every factions needs to get unique signatures from other factions that the game remains interesting?

If you look at Heroes 6 necro's are the kings of resurrection... and in DoC? Atropos and Boneyard... that's it (Standard!). In open there are a few more options but most of them are far away from the level of that academy fortune...

About the power level:
Academy fortune good. Could be pretty strong with Cloudshapers. If the magic level is high enough tto play cloudshapers at a lower cost than enemys removal it might be too strong.
Light spell: Well.. it should be cheaper but even than.... maybe a combo with the GB unique fortune if there are some human light creatures. Otherwise... discarding fatties just to bring them back and see them soulreavered is way to much effort. And as long as it is a 1:1 deal against soulreavers at the same cost the spell won't see play.
Stronghold building: Looks crappy at the first look. Fine. For 4 ressource stronghold has way more powerful options.
Inferno fortune: Support for inferno stall decks... Dhamiria with Stone Shields will love it.

So...

Haven: Depends on what is coming next.
Necro: Depends. Except Anastasia (which will get nerfed i think) only mediocre crippling cards.. crippling has always been a mediocre strategy. It's a nice addition, but nothing to build a deck around.
Inferno: Looks into a good future.
Academy: As a combo roiented faction could be very good. If it will reach current Inferno/Stronghold power levels depend ont he overall balance.
Sanctuary: Don't like it that more and more spell-effects got baked into creatures. Makes spells worthless. Don't want to see Ishuma revival in a Kenage costume (X/1/1 decks).
Stronghold: Maybe a good target to rotate out with BS3 and replace it with Dungeon. Their toolkit is currently too good, it will remain good and they will get more good tools, and the devs don't want to swing the nerf bat here.

I hope that all the above thinking is false and it will come different.

Marcolian2002
09-22-2014, 04:40 AM
I believe apart from gameplay balance, thematically correct is very important too. As a dedicated necro player I've almost left the game just because of Light of Tomorrow (in open), and came back when they release boneyard. There's simply no reason, even from a game balance perspective, to release a graveyard resurrection card for academy, esp they're not constructs but primal creatures. Djinn? Shooter wizards? Are you joking Ubi?

Portios86
09-22-2014, 05:55 AM
I think necro still has the best resurrection cards.
And I like mechanics shared between factions as long as they fit their factions and are balanced. We have altar of Asha btw, one of the best resurrections and itīs neutral.

However, I think this kind of effect should be always better in necro, followed by haven/light. Looks a bit weird in academy, I guess they are just summoning more djins but...
Well as long as it work in a different way and has a different cost, it doesnīt matter if itīs shared, but this academy fortune, while having restrictions (and I donīt think itīs super strong), looks better or as good as itīs in haven standard format, of course.

Btw Cainium be careful with what you say about stronghold, Ubi is an orc faction of Asha :p hehe no, really, itīs a bit better than the other factions and I hope itīs balanced well in SOB, but I wouldnīt rotate such a popular and different faction.

@Marcolian why did you hate light of tomorrow? Too strong in your opinion or a wrong mechanic in haven?
I ask you because almost everyone thinks that resurrection powers fit in haven. The god of light and the angels...they always had the ability to resurrect units in heroes games. Necro was obviously stronger (that 5000 skeletons army).

Marcolian2002
09-22-2014, 06:24 AM
Thanks Portios!
Before standard the resurrection cards for Necros are Atropos, Seria's last order, Soria's legion and Altar. Also some fortunes. The fortunes doesn't give real card advantage. We don't have boneyards and the skeleton stacks by then. So the necro graveyard play would be 1. put the big guys like to ghost dragons into graveyard, then use Seria's to bring them into play, or 2. use Seria to bring Paos back and rush the opponent. In my opinion that's not the intended theme of Necro, which should be 'Recurring resurrection'. (or recycling, as they're all dead anyway)
I do have Light of Tomorrow at very early stage and I have made a few Haven decks playing Light together with weenies, but it's just strange to keep resurrecting those soldiers :p

superktro
09-22-2014, 08:24 AM
Homm V
necro uses raise dead which is the strongest resurrecting spell but applies only to dead
haven uses resurrection which is not so potent, costly mana wise but affects living non-inferno creatures so nothing wrong with that
constructs are just robots in a sense so bringing them back is fine and acceptable

but prime alignment goes to djinns, constructs and even wizards and so cheap and so effective resurrection spell for them is not lore friendly, may be change it to ritual summoning, with ability bring 2 djinns back to your hand and costs 4, magic 3, destiny 2

zuom000
09-22-2014, 10:39 AM
I think, that necro could get creatures, which when played from graveyard gain additional stats or citp abilities, or fortunes which behave in similar ways.

cleverpun0
09-22-2014, 10:44 AM
Sure are a lot of Banshee variants in this expansion, obviously a free magma burst or damaged creature kill isn't as potent, but the better stats is an interesting tradeoff.

Harpy tribal is going to be interesting. Glad I don't play open--striking fury plus mother harpy would be a massive pain to deal with.

Blast of wind makes me think of Cyclone. Will definitely be an interesting tool for stall decks, but I'm not sure that it is useful at the stage you would be playing it at. I would rather just use a geyser if Im playing Yukiko.

Shadow might be nice for Ariana creeping darkness or Anastasya, but it seems highly situational.

Week of elementals seems a bit narrow/unreliable, but at least it triggers automatically.

Xyx0rz
09-22-2014, 12:33 PM
The graveyard is just a place where used cards go. It could have been given the generic name "Discard Pile". It's not specific to Necropolis. Necropolis already brings the dead back to life every time they cast a creature since their creatures are already undead. If they were to reanimate the formerly living, they'd need cards that grab creatures from the opponent's graveyard (since only those were formerly living).

Cainium
09-22-2014, 01:04 PM
The graveyard is just a place where used cards go. It could have been given the generic name "Discard Pile". It's not specific to Necropolis. Necropolis already brings the dead back to life every time they cast a creature since their creatures are already undead. If they were to reanimate the formerly living, they'd need cards that grab creatures from the opponent's graveyard (since only those were formerly living).

Does not make sense flavour-wise. Since DoC is inspired by M&M it should follow the rules and flavour of M&M where necropolis was always able to resurrect fallen undead minions, where other factions (except light magic users) couldn't do that. Just like the explanations why Stronghold is getting dark magic.

If you call it "generic discard pile" you have to change many wordings and themes of cards and give necropolis a new signature ability which differ from the M&M lore.

A pretty heavy deal just to justify that academy shoul be able to "resurrect".

Xyx0rz
09-22-2014, 02:44 PM
Just like the explanations why Stronghold is getting dark magic.
Is that a problem? Isn't Prime the school that is banned for Stronghold?


If you call it "generic discard pile" you have to change many wordings and themes of cards and give necropolis a new signature ability which differ from the M&M lore.
Which signature ability are you referring to? I thought Cripple, Poison and Incorporeal were the Necropolis abilities.

zuom000
09-22-2014, 03:32 PM
Is that a problem? Isn't Prime the school that is banned for Stronghold?


Which signature ability are you referring to? I thought Cripple, Poison and Incorporeal were the Necropolis abilities.

Play Style
Necropolis is the perfect faction for players who enjoy an attrition gameplay. This faction relies on sapping down your enemy, with constant creature resurrection and poison.

Sacrifice your weaker units to block strong enemy creatures while eating them away with your poison. Use your resurrection cards to bring back more creatures to overrun the battlefield.

A meaningful way to describe early Necropolis decks would be: the rising tide will overwhelm all.

From their site hueuheuheuehu

ulpsz
09-22-2014, 05:25 PM
very disappointing uninspired cards....

academy resurrection...wtf..you know you can create plausible resurrection mechanics for EVERY FACTION this way and turn everything into a gulash...ok I get the construct thing(they are practically robots being repaired)...but this is really going to far

the new iterration of resurrection is more heaven centerd, that would be ok .but with the above mentioned academy fortune it's just another inconsistency...so why should a spell (available to all factions) be faction centerd because of flavor..when the next thing you do is a flavourbreech


inquisitor with honor...just wtf...:confused:..is that the best you can come up with...borrowing a trait (and not just any trait - but an iconic one- from another faction)

that just spells incompetence and laziness from a speaker amplifier


looks like the desighners have reached the end of their inspiration

Cainium
09-22-2014, 05:36 PM
Which signature ability are you referring to? I thought Cripple, Poison and Incorporeal were the Necropolis abilities.


In the HoMM series the core mechanic was resurrection, including Life Drain from Vampires. Ghosts had a "Ghost form" ability which was also present in Sanctuary in HoMM6. Crippling was a combat mechanic from Lamassu, present in some other ways in other factions (the Dungeons Scorpicor would have Crippling to).

Poisen was a more Dungeon specific theme with their Assasins.

Almost any racial ability necro got in the HoMM games which i played (a bit of HoMM3 and mostly HoMM4 - 6) was about resurrection of own or enemy fallen creatures. Your "rename" suggestion would remove the whole theme of resurrection from DoC, leaving just the former combat mechanics, which are more nice-to-have thing, as the new "core".

Would be like if you say "ok, academys core was magic in M&M... but... no, let's give all spell schools to stronghold and rename "magic" to something which fits strongholds theme". Academy players would be p*ssed off. Like, the Necros are now.

Portios86
09-22-2014, 05:38 PM
inquisitor with honor...just wtf...:confused:..is that the best you can come up with...borrowing a trait (and not just any trait - but an iconic one- from another faction)

that just spells incompetence and laziness from a speaker amplifier


looks like the desighners have reached the end of their inspiration

Donīt forget that sanctuary shares resource acceleration with haven, and thatīs quite iconic in haven.
Also, stronghold and sanctuary share ambush, and you can find swift creatures in academy too.

I donīt know if they are at the end of their inspirations, the first cards they are showing from SoB are quite uninteresting Imo, so itīs possible.
But honestly, I think sharing abilities and mechanics is fine as long as itīs well done.
If itīs done well or bad, I canīt tell you know, I need to play some of those cards to know first...

This academy fortune though, seems too effective and necro-ish, even if it has a situational aspect, I think it should have an extra requeriment or effect related to Academy, something like:
"put one prime creature in hand or two if you have 3 or more spells in your graveyard" or "discard a spell and put two prime creatures..."

Not to balance the fortune, but to make it more suited to Academy.
So far, the only Academy thing it has is that it works on prime creatures only and prime is common in academy. Not enough Imo.

Cainium
09-22-2014, 06:28 PM
Donīt forget that sanctuary shares resource acceleration with haven, and thatīs quite iconic in haven.
Also, stronghold and sanctuary share ambush, and you can find swift creatures in academy too.


No Sanctuary creature has "income". And "swift" is not strongsholds core theme. It's Enrage/Bloodthirst, as it was called "Bloodrage" in the HoMM series.



But honestly, I think sharing abilities and mechanics is fine as long as itīs well done.
If itīs done well or bad, I canīt tell you know, I need to play some of those cards to know first...


Academy has a crippling creature too. It's fine, as long as it is a niche-ability or a common ability (like swift). I also don't like "Serias last order" which gives quick attack access to necro. It's a niche but i doesn't fit necros playstyle.

Prime and Acemdy, Dark and Necro, Infenro and Fire, Sanctuary and Water... you could put that fortune in any faction if you want to.

And a side note: unless i missed something hard Necro got not a single card which was able to resurrect "big" creatures sicne the times of the Adar-Malik endless Banshee recursion. And since his Ability for 6(!) ressource was considered "too strong", and he got banned from standard (would like to see him back instead of Fleshbane for example), it seems rediculous that Academy gets the card Necro is lacking since these days.

I can imagine that the devs fear "Banshee recursion" again with Seria. But just a small calculation: 2 Banshees + that fortune = 8-14 ressource. Hakeem with 10 magic= 2 ressource for 2 Cloudshapers. Guess whats stonger...?

Honor for Haven was the same stupid "idea".Honor is a sanctuary thing, and should be only there.

Kurency
09-22-2014, 09:41 PM
I can imagine that the devs fear "Banshee recursion" again with Seria. But just a small calculation: 2 Banshees + that fortune = 8-14 ressource. Hakeem with 10 magic= 2 ressource for 2 Cloudshapers. Guess whats stonger...?


Cloudshapers are going to make a comeback.

MoritzBradtke
09-22-2014, 10:32 PM
Cloudshapers are going to make a comeback.

I dont know about that new academy card 2 cards from graveyard in hand for 2 resource is nice but i dont think its op could be with Cloudshapers tough because they Cost not hing after all... probably needs a change academy is too good at stalling make is 1 card instead of 2 and its fine i just wonder sometimes compare it to sisters teint from heaven what didnt make it in Standard for 2 ress u was able to get a card from ure graveyard but on top of ure libary now u get the same but x2 and right into ure hand and for a faction like acadamy?

banduan
09-23-2014, 05:52 AM
I dislike most of the heroes, but like most of the cards previewed thus far. Especially like Week of the Elementals, yet at the same time a bit worried about it.

The come-into-play effect creatures are very welcome, just a shame they're Epic :nonchalance:

The Inquisitor looks like a pile of meh.

superktro
09-23-2014, 08:20 AM
devs give us seals and we will give you ideas and new mechanics, stop copying mechanics and forgetting the lore

Sameji246
09-23-2014, 12:34 PM
That new event makes me wonder if we'll get more merc related cards... it's a fun concept.

Xyx0rz
09-23-2014, 03:50 PM
I'm happy to see that Blessed Inquisitor no longer has Honor (a Sanctuary mechanic), but the new version gives "adjacent Light creatures" +1. That means he does not even buff his fellow Blessed Inquisitors (which are apparently not the Light kind of Priests).

I kind of don't get when a creature is supposed to have a magic school type. Some but not all Liches are Dark. Some but not all Priests are Light. Some but not all Demons are Fire. Some but not all Nagas are Water. And perhaps most puzzling of all; some but not all Orcs are Air. Lurker in the Dark is Dark, but Dark Wood Hermit is not (despite being a Lich!) I can find rhyme nor reason. Is this something that has been consciously designed? Or are these types added as afterthoughts?

BodPud
09-23-2014, 04:06 PM
I'm happy to see that Blessed Inquisitor no longer has Honor (a Sanctuary mechanic), but the new version gives "adjacent Light creatures" +1. That means he does not even buff his fellow Blessed Inquisitors (which are apparently not the Light kind of Priests).

Check the big "Light" symbol near creature types ... ;)

tententai
09-23-2014, 06:37 PM
I like the increased use of creature affiliation to magic schools. Also the icon on the card makes it clearer.

superktro
09-23-2014, 07:28 PM
totally agree
I like the increased use of creature affiliation to magic schools. Also the icon on the card makes it clearer.

Portios86
09-23-2014, 10:32 PM
Yes, it looks quite cool honestly, I like that.

Xyx0rz
09-24-2014, 01:13 PM
Check the big "Light" symbol near creature types ... ;)
Ah, yes, does that mean that every creature now has an "elemental" type? Is that only for the new creatures? Or will the old creatures all be assigned types?

Perhaps a slight tweak could be made to the Altar of Wishes; currently, if I filter for "Light" and "Creature", I get no results.

superktro
09-24-2014, 04:06 PM
good idea, alligned creatures should be filtered, totally agree. Most probably old cards will also get the cool symbols. Eg during hon all cards were modified to include creature types

MoritzBradtke
09-25-2014, 06:47 PM
Blast of wind could be a decent card in mid late game but not sure but if u have Bord control it can be as good as geysir and some nich uses, weak of the dead isnt always available ans mostly used in inferno only

RottenObjective
09-26-2014, 07:13 PM
if every creature will be aligned, this means that most heaven creatures will be aligned to light... Blessed Inquisitor would still have "honor"!

Starwatcher1625
09-26-2014, 09:22 PM
Do they normally only show a fraction of cards before release? According to this Week of Enrollment event Sins will be out on the 2nd. The cards were being revealed at a fairly good clip there for awhile, but this has since stalled.

MoritzBradtke
09-27-2014, 02:36 PM
yes they always Show only some Cards, there have been plenty of Spoilers already... have some Patience (:

superktro
09-27-2014, 03:05 PM
need more spoilers devs, just artworks would do

mordredrs
09-27-2014, 03:12 PM
Is there any release date?

MoritzBradtke
09-27-2014, 05:28 PM
2 october all Cards will be revealed, relase probably some days later, thats how its usually, i have a question, will all creatures get an element now? all new Cards are alligned to something, so means all will get an uptade`?

Star-Seeker-
09-27-2014, 05:48 PM
i have a question, will all creatures get an element now?
I hope not, because all the Necro creatures would probably end up being Dark, so then they would get trolled by Hasafah.
It's already hard enough to deal with him as is with Dark being Necro's main magic school.

Xyx0rz
09-27-2014, 09:45 PM
I hope not, because all the Necro creatures would probably end up being Dark, so then they would get trolled by Hasafah.
It's already hard enough to deal with him as is with Dark being Necro's main magic school.
Maybe all the orcs will get Air and we'll get an Air Ward creature to troll Stronkhold.

zontik7
09-28-2014, 09:38 PM
Guys, check new arts and alternative Hasafah's art from chinese mmdoc client. :rolleyes:

http://imgur.com/a/qzMtZ

magusnigri
09-29-2014, 02:49 AM
Guys, check new arts and alternative Hasafah's art from chinese mmdoc client. :rolleyes:

http://imgur.com/a/qzMtZ


If that ''Spring Spirit'' alternate art ever comes to sale I would create 100 diferent acc and buy 4 copies of it on each acc, then sell all the acc after they stop selling the cards and be a rich man because everyone that lays its eye on that amazing art would want to buy it.

That **** is epic, plz make it happen UBI.

magusnigri
09-29-2014, 03:07 AM
Is it just me or anyone else have the felling that ''Sandor'' will make stronghold even more broken than it is right now?

Portios86
09-29-2014, 03:12 AM
Is it just me or anyone else have the felling that ''Sandor'' will make stronghold even more broken than it is right now?

Sacrificial altar is better than soulreaver, at least for stronghold. Enthrall has too high magic requeriment for stronghold.
Imo, it isnīt going to make stronghold better, but I could be wrong.

Btw those arts are amazing :)

FaustOWnia
09-29-2014, 05:26 AM
Is it just me or anyone else have the felling that ''Sandor'' will make stronghold even more broken than it is right now?

Dark magic is too slow for stronghold imo.

Sameji246
09-29-2014, 06:20 AM
I think the funny thing about all this is they shouldn't even be releasing a new set until they balance what they have so the game is actually playable.

Aranarth78
09-29-2014, 04:03 PM
I've read many comments about how great the meta currently is, compared to previous expansions, seeing more viable heroes than ever.

I'm inclined to agree on the semantic: look at all those viable heroes: Kat, Toghrul, Acamas, Zardoc, Matewa (slightly behind because geyser/meteor aren't OP enough compared to insect swarm)... When before there was only Kelthor.

And soon, it will be even better with Shaar and Sandor, both having Earth and Fire. Also, air aligned Zephiria won't feel forced to only join Kat or Matewa, Shaar will be there too for even more rush glory !

I'm really looking forward to that even richer meta !

Sameji246
09-30-2014, 12:59 AM
I noticed you only mentioned Stronghold Heroes.

That basically sums up the meta.

It's demoralizing.

zontik7
09-30-2014, 10:41 AM
New alt art of "Honor Blind Us". Why europeans players can't get these rare cards? :(

http://i.imgur.com/aBgLVSi.png

ArtificialEvil
09-30-2014, 11:59 AM
New alt art of "Honor Blind Us". Why europeans players can't get these rare cards? :(

http://i.imgur.com/aBgLVSi.png
Maybe it all will come with new expansion? I don't know what to think about it.

catatau84
09-30-2014, 03:51 PM
Maybe it all will come with new expansion? I don't know what to think about it.

I am not an old player but why we dont have alternative arts for all regions? What is the criteria used to release an alternative artwork? It is kind of frustating...

zontik7
09-30-2014, 11:51 PM
Okay guys. New event on chinese language. :) http://i.imgur.com/hgASEE9.png

UottEvar
10-01-2014, 12:42 AM
Okay guys. New event on chinese language. :)

Well, not actually new, it's Night of the Rising Moon. Might be even not an alternative, as Chinese artwork was always slightly different.

zontik7
10-01-2014, 02:42 AM
Well, not actually new, it's Night of the Rising Moon. Might be even not an alternative, as Chinese artwork was always slightly different.

Yes, you are right. :)

Aranarth78
10-01-2014, 02:38 PM
Meanwhile we're still waiting for Shi-no-shi alternate artwork since at least 4 months, and commercials don't have a god damn clue what to do with the ingame shop...

zontik7
10-03-2014, 09:33 PM
Check new alt. arts, guys.

https://imgur.com/a/yegv1