View Full Version : P51D low altitudes after 1.22

01-24-2004, 10:35 AM
Did they change the P51d low altitude behaviour or is it just me? It seems like it stalls a lot easier around 3000ft and at the same time it handles really well at really high altitudes.

01-24-2004, 10:35 AM
Did they change the P51d low altitude behaviour or is it just me? It seems like it stalls a lot easier around 3000ft and at the same time it handles really well at really high altitudes.

01-24-2004, 11:07 AM
3000ft or meters?

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01-24-2004, 11:25 AM
I notice the jug has been extremely dogged without its 120 mix all the us planes have, from takeoff to top speed and climb to 6000m over 300kmph. Also the removal of all manual superchargers they are auto only and we are loosing alot of performance there of the real aircraft, and can anyone show me a track of the p40m reaching past 540 at 3000m in level flight, and no diving down to pass it pure level trimmed flight.

Nothing we can do olegs going to make it as he wants and reality has no meaning.

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[This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Sat January 24 2004 at 01:48 PM.]

01-24-2004, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by laca25:
Did they change the P51d low altitude behaviour or is it just me? It seems like it stalls a lot easier around 3000ft and at the same time it handles really well at really high altitudes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fly the P-51 laco25 and it has not been touched from what i can see. Its' max speeds are the same, it manuvers the same and it rolls the same.

All the P-47's actualy seem to have a redused roll rate. I could be wronge but someone like Baron who flys the D10 most of the time could proubly tell me im wronge. I use to fly the P-47s most of the time but now its the P-51 tha i usualy fly.

Youl notice three fuel guages in the P-51. Behind and over your left shoulder, left of your seat and right of your seat. They all work. Any way, if you have 50% or more of fuel then it will be a little more unstable then if you had just 25% fuel. I think with 25% fuel youl have like 60gal in your aux fuel tank while the rest are emtpy. With 50% fuel your Aux fuel tank is full while there is about 30gal in the other fuel tanks.

I could be wronge but if we only take 25% fuel; that being just the aux tank being used, then there would not be any fuel in the wings right? I get the impression from where the Aux tank guag is, that the aux fuel tank is behind the cockpit?

01-24-2004, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Nothing we can do olegs going to make it as we wants and reality has no meaning.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're a funny guy Lead...be careful, saying things like that might get the super-doods mad at you! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif


01-24-2004, 12:42 PM
what I said early, its from 1.1b to 1.22, not just the new 1.22 which i think they finally fixed the sound which is good it also stopped the people who start warping as soon as they hear an engine on thier 6 to stop, they just start doing it after they are hit.

The superdoods know fb is pretty arcadish and not very realistic well but the majority of the users want it that way, ubi HL and ASE you can see by settings around 75% only fly nopit externals on, padlock. But its there game and making the choice of what the majority want is smart.

Im sure 1c notices the no stick pressure at max dive speed that will lock up your control surfaces even with full trim before breakup speed in reality, the elevator effectiveness with no pressure at 900+ on many a/c , no more unrecoverable stalls anymore unless rudder is shot out, the prop pitch stop on a dime manuver in the 109s, high alt performances. The wrong blackout levels of a/c, stuka for example dont black out from a 4000m divebomb, you cant blackout in a i153 or i16 from so many gs along with so many other things
the ki84 in every aspect, 109g2 being a better turn fighter then any russian a/c below 5000m and superior above 5000m. Im just hoping they have 3 levels of fms in BOB so we are all happy becuase its definatly not happening in FB unless a mircle happens with the addon packs, seeing how complicated thier data imputs are from correct firing rates, power to weight, combat turn climbrates shows me the developers definatly want the sim to be as realistic as possible but maybe ubi or someone wants it to be easier, who know maybe when sales slow down for fb they will slap the realism in becuase they already made thier moneys worth from people who want a easy to fly game. The way I see it if you dont have to do everything the real pilots do from takeoff procedure, stick pressures, pilot fatigue to equiptment failure in flight its not very realistic in my opinion

Be careful?? Im honest and let them know how it is. Im sure they rather see posts like that then to see

you guys are awsome this is the bestest game your number one maddox!!

They know they have the best wwii combat sim in the market, and nothing out there even comes close to fbs terrain and graphics

fms and sound is a different story, im sure many people see the videoclip i posted awhile back of the 190 doing the extact same moves that can be done in crimson skies, only the 190 rolled faster http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif the crimsons skies plane had slightly more elevator effectiveness

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[This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Sat January 24 2004 at 01:46 PM.]

[This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Sat January 24 2004 at 01:47 PM.]

01-24-2004, 02:19 PM
I agree with you Leadspitter that the FMs make this lean more towards a game than an sim, but the game engine seems to have the potential to be better. I got this game because I thought it would be more historical than other games, and in many ways it is, but the FMS at times leave me shaking my head in disbelief, and leave me wishing for some certified community based tweaking outfit that has the will and the time to get it as close to perfect as the FB engine allows, like the 1% in CFS (although I am not saying I prefer CFS - LOL). WIth such a huge planeset it seems improbable that MAddox games can spend the time necessary to get things more correct, but time will tell.

On a broader note , of course the FB engine has its limitations. My hope is that the new "game" by MAddox will allow for more input of indisputible aircraft inputs to determine the flight characteristics (such as wing, empennage,fuselage, and control surface geometry,weight distribution,etc.) with fewer subjective variables that appear to need endless tweaking. It's asking alot for a PC game but I am willing to shell out a few more bucks on a flight simulator software that is more like a sim.

01-24-2004, 04:25 PM
The only FM changes I've seen is in the P-40 because of the supercharger mod. And the AI's don't fly into mountains or dive onto the runways...they actually enter the pattern and land normally. No change that I can see in the P-51, P-47s, 109s or 190s. Once these planes slow down...stalls happen. I have pilot manuals for the P-51D and P-47D. Both emphasize, "Keep the nose down" in low speed turns.

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01-24-2004, 04:54 PM
thats all i noticed too don with withis 1.22 patch, sound, ai fm, and the removal of the p40 superchargers. All the fms seem exactly the same and the p40m is still not reaching past 540kmph at 3000m, I fly the p40s alot and it always reached that top speed in perfectly trimmed flight so i dont know why the removal of the supercharger did anything at all. what needs to be looked at is adding the mix 120-100 back to the us planes, the p47d-27s rollrate, and the p51dnts high alt performance.

elevator stick pressures at max divespeeds that need it
ki84 almost everything damage model, roll, climb, divespeed, manueverability at top speed before breakup is way above what it should be.

the yak and mig 3 roll rates are equal to the 190s, the il2 rollrate is equal to the zero,

damage models that need correcting
p11 needs to be weaker
190 needs complex dm
il2 need to be weaker
la need to be weaker
yak need to be weaker
ki84 need to be alot weaker
p51d = weakest dm in game

also the 109 F and g2 should not be outurning all las laggs p40s p39s yaks at low alt. I love flying them but it definatly needs to be corrected.

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01-24-2004, 06:54 PM
If your looking to get reality out of the games your playing, that's an illness.

01-24-2004, 07:09 PM
Hm, I wonder where you got the experience and data to verify your... opinion of what these a/c were in real life?

109F and G were excellent turn fighters, whereas the P51 was a quick design for an high altitude long-range fighter. It was built in large numbers and is still one of the most famous a/c of WW2, but not the most successfull.

After all, it greatly depends on the pilot. If you fly low and slow in P51 and expect success, your attitude is the one, that needs to be patched.



01-24-2004, 07:40 PM
i flew the lagg wid 5guns earlier today, that kept stallin ALOT. dont think it did that before :\/
ive knowtised strange blackouts alot online too, got one while bunting a 262 earlier :\

01-24-2004, 09:19 PM
The only change I've notice (apart from sound) on any plane is the neutral trim characteristics. Seems to be set for best cruise instead of best climb now. That could account for some of the perceived changes if you're not constantly trimming like I do.


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01-24-2004, 09:32 PM
The inconsistant black outs is the strangest thing for me currently. The human body will black out at Xg. This is a constant and not variable with aircraft type. I.E. The Yak3 can turn inside a Ki84 at speed and have a very gradual to non-existant black out, whilst the Ki84 will put out your lights at the slightest stick input...

Very strange....