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View Full Version : The problem with the term Full Real



Osirisx9
08-21-2004, 05:10 AM
I had the chance to do a little real world flying over the past weak. I decided to take an instructor with me since it has been a couple of months since I last flew. I was a little rusty in some areas but I'm sure that I would have done just fine flying solo. I was flying a cessna 172 in the pattern and decided to make sure that I really try to spot the aircraft that the tower pointed out to me and just really pay attention to proceedures and the usual flying chores. The first thing that I noticed were a few bad habbits that I've picked up. For one pre landing checks and chatting with the tower. Keep in mind folks the 172 isn't the most complicated aircraft in the world to fly. One thing that really got my attention were the G loads when going through the maneuvers. None were more than 2 gs, but they got my attention. Flying IL2 AEP made me forget all about G loading and how it REALLY effects real flying. Then there is the visibility. I noticed that I was able to spot aircraft allot more quickly and easier than I remember before I had so much stick time in FB ACES. I fly full real most of the time and I believe it has improved my ability to spot aircraft. Flying Full real in FB and spotting aircraft is definately allot harder than in real life. I strongly believe now that using limited Icon settings to simulate the RL visibility is the way to go. Aircraft are clearly visible from at least 3-7 miles away depending on atmospheric conditions and plane types are easily identified within 1-2000 feet. This is true with aircraft of similar configurations.

It would be nice if we could just drop the term Full Real and instead call it full switch instead. This is not a new Idea but it is a good one in order to stop all the mudslinging when it comes to realism settings. I see now that the only thing that Full Switch does is help to simulate a majority of tactics used durring actual aerial combat. The same goal can be accomplished with more realistic settings and still be just as challenging. I invite all to come and try out the new Icon settings on Birds Of Prey and tell us what you think. I believe that with the limitations of the game, the new settings are just as realistic as you can get. All take care .

RAF238thOsiris

Osirisx9
08-21-2004, 05:10 AM
I had the chance to do a little real world flying over the past weak. I decided to take an instructor with me since it has been a couple of months since I last flew. I was a little rusty in some areas but I'm sure that I would have done just fine flying solo. I was flying a cessna 172 in the pattern and decided to make sure that I really try to spot the aircraft that the tower pointed out to me and just really pay attention to proceedures and the usual flying chores. The first thing that I noticed were a few bad habbits that I've picked up. For one pre landing checks and chatting with the tower. Keep in mind folks the 172 isn't the most complicated aircraft in the world to fly. One thing that really got my attention were the G loads when going through the maneuvers. None were more than 2 gs, but they got my attention. Flying IL2 AEP made me forget all about G loading and how it REALLY effects real flying. Then there is the visibility. I noticed that I was able to spot aircraft allot more quickly and easier than I remember before I had so much stick time in FB ACES. I fly full real most of the time and I believe it has improved my ability to spot aircraft. Flying Full real in FB and spotting aircraft is definately allot harder than in real life. I strongly believe now that using limited Icon settings to simulate the RL visibility is the way to go. Aircraft are clearly visible from at least 3-7 miles away depending on atmospheric conditions and plane types are easily identified within 1-2000 feet. This is true with aircraft of similar configurations.

It would be nice if we could just drop the term Full Real and instead call it full switch instead. This is not a new Idea but it is a good one in order to stop all the mudslinging when it comes to realism settings. I see now that the only thing that Full Switch does is help to simulate a majority of tactics used durring actual aerial combat. The same goal can be accomplished with more realistic settings and still be just as challenging. I invite all to come and try out the new Icon settings on Birds Of Prey and tell us what you think. I believe that with the limitations of the game, the new settings are just as realistic as you can get. All take care .

RAF238thOsiris

carguy_
08-21-2004, 06:14 AM
Sure,full switch it is.For me there`s no turning back though.To make spoting easier in qmb sessions one day I enabled icons and few hours later I was simply blind in a full switch server.Icons take too much load from my eyes and although I`m sure my site is being greatly stressed I`s rather stay with FS.

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tonywizzz
08-21-2004, 06:25 AM
Yep, I only started flying FS when I started VWF, I now find it difficult to fly with icons of any kind, looses a lot of the challenge for me. In the sim visibility is the same for everyone. (Hardware differences excluded).

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rummyrum
08-21-2004, 08:52 AM
Think also about game play. Yes visability is much better in life but icons take many other things away from the combat side. The fact that you will fly to a dot, not to id the plane by its profile (those better at identifying profiles have the edge)but by the icon that pops up or does'nt. It is never hard to figure out who is friend or foe when icons are on for either side, even in the most intense furballs.

9./JG54 Rummy

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2004, 08:55 AM
I agree with the term "full switch" only because "full real" isn't even a good approximation of it. Mostly for visibility reasons. What used to be called "full real" is really only "maximum difficulty"; it's harder than it should be.

arcadeace
08-21-2004, 09:26 AM
The full real deal was initially extolled by a handful of guys, some making the point seeing themselves above the rest with some popular members involved. Over time more of us became used to closed cockpit, then no icons and I think a more honest appraisal without egos involved has increasingly become evident. I fly close to FS but its slow learning. I'm hoping when I eventually get Track IR it will be easier. I also agree going back to icons will make FS more difficult.

LW_lcarp
08-21-2004, 09:33 AM
They call it a Flight Sim so Simulated real would be a better term

"If winning isnt everything why do they keep score"
Vince Lombardi

karost
08-21-2004, 10:39 AM
Hi, Osirisx9 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I feel good that you share your experience to us when you stay in 172 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
Online game setup is a long story for over three years that we play this good game. As we all know that they have pro and con for compromise setup icon to play this game

Game limitation effect
==================
1) The limitation of graphic engine to simulate close to real life visibility
2) Gun fire light in game over visibility at long distance and make it too easy to id plane side
3) Terrene layer problem (can not see plane at a ground tree layer)
4) Clouds visibility not display when fly over 4000m.

Compromise icon text effect
==========================
1) People will not looking on the plane but looking at text
2) People using text for guiding to line up a gun sigh not using a plane for spray shooting (in case mg or .50) for urgency situation.
3) Icon text destroy "lose sight situation" a way
4) Icon text destroy "surprise attack situation" a way

we have a lot of icon setup to compromise situation but what type of icon setup that look and make acceptation like WC server create new solution by use same color of icon at both side at long distance or Greater green server show icon friends only.

I think we already do a lot of solution for compromise the limitation for playing this game. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Let's full switch... still be a full switch same as use to be.
Let's full real + icon + speed bar still an option that uses to be.

Let's select a slot you like in HL slot same as you open T.V. And select channels programmed that you like.

We should point to fix at the game not fix at the people because people is not a problem. (IMHO)

S!

Heavy_Weather
08-21-2004, 01:43 PM
shouldve just called it "cockpit on or cockpit off" its definately nothing compared to flying an actual aircraft. its simply a game.

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RedDeth
08-21-2004, 03:27 PM
ive flown plenty of times in 152s and even in T6 Texan .

real life flying visibility is just about instantaneous and requires no staring at dots.

FR is not a simulation of flying in a cockpit at all. its just maximum difficulty in identifying a foe.

i can fly over a field at 4 to 5 thousand feet and take one glance down and see a tractor clear as day. planes in the air stick out like sore thumbs even a mile away.

even in dusk conditions going dark coming up for a landing you can see outlines of planes even without lights on the plane.

try flying FR in almost night conditions.

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TgD Thunderbolt56
08-21-2004, 04:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
ive flown plenty of times in 152s and even in T6 Texan .

real life flying visibility is just about instantaneous and requires no staring at dots.

FR is not a simulation of flying in a cockpit at all. its just maximum difficulty in identifying a foe.

i can fly over a field at 4 to 5 thousand feet and take one glance down and see a tractor clear as day. planes in the air stick out like sore thumbs even a mile away.

even in dusk conditions going dark coming up for a landing you can see outlines of planes even without lights on the plane.

try flying FR in almost night conditions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ditto...and I wholeheartedly agree.

TB


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-HH- Beebop
08-21-2004, 04:16 PM
Lately I have been flying with only the basic default icons. (Distance/Color). I would like to just use Color for IFF purposes.
What needs to be changed in the conf. file, and to what values?
I know the answer to my question is somwhere here but the search feature leaves a lot to be desired. A link to an appropriate thread or site with this info would be appreciated.

(Of course if you want to put the answer here I wouldn't complain)

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Osirisx9
08-21-2004, 05:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
ive flown plenty of times in 152s and even in T6 Texan .

real life flying visibility is just about instantaneous and requires no staring at dots.

FR is not a simulation of flying in a cockpit at all. its just maximum difficulty in identifying a foe.

i can fly over a field at 4 to 5 thousand feet and take one glance down and see a tractor clear as day. planes in the air stick out like sore thumbs even a mile away.

even in dusk conditions going dark coming up for a landing you can see outlines of planes even without lights on the plane.

try flying FR in almost night conditions.

http://www.fighterjocks.net home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totaly agree.

RAF238thOsiris

Vargtass-0e
08-22-2004, 02:26 AM
must agree with beebop. for ident I can do without range-info, but it would be great just to see who I am following. Been following friendly for aprox 5 mins in dogfights lots of times ... it`s a ***** to identify sometimes. so, would it be possible to just have a color clue about who is badguy and who is not? I imagine real pilots had ( as said ) a much better view of things than us in this sim, and probably recognized planes further away then we can even hope for...

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2004, 10:47 AM
And, of course, *cough* icons *cough* *COUGH!!!* do a great job of simulating this.

Scragbat
08-22-2004, 11:21 AM
'Full Switch' is to the point and you know where you stand with this term.
Always find it a bit funny when people say the fly 'full real'. Does this mean they can actually die flying FB? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
'The body cannot live without the mind' as Morpheus says.

On the difficulty settings screen you have the switch for 'realistic'. Never tried it myself. Does this give you full switch?
I guess this is 'realistic' as defined by Oleg.
If it is full switch how come nobody says they fly 'realistic'?

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