PDA

View Full Version : Which has a better dynamic campaign - IL2:FB or CFS3?



jpinard
04-09-2004, 02:12 AM
Sorry if this is a really ******ed question, but which game has a better dynamic campaign - IL2:FB or CFS3?

I haven't read the entire manauls for either game, and am "JUST" starting them up, even though I've had each since their days of release@ I also got Aces for IL2:FB and the "Firepower" add-on for CFS3.

So, I'm just wondering what the consensus is.

jpinard
04-09-2004, 02:12 AM
Sorry if this is a really ******ed question, but which game has a better dynamic campaign - IL2:FB or CFS3?

I haven't read the entire manauls for either game, and am "JUST" starting them up, even though I've had each since their days of release@ I also got Aces for IL2:FB and the "Firepower" add-on for CFS3.

So, I'm just wondering what the consensus is.

SeaFireLIV
04-09-2004, 04:11 AM
I don`t know what the `consensus` is, but I purchased CFS3 primarily for it`s Campaign. This was because I loved it`s `what if` idea. It started historical with 1943/44 borders and normal aircraft, then depending how well you did different things might happen:

1, The Allies would invade Axis territory and you could push further as was historical.

2, The Axis actually CROSS the English channel and invade England. I still remember a great mission where we in our Tempests were assigned a ground attack mission against panzers in the heart of London. I remember quite vividly taking VERY heavy flak over St. Pauls Cathedral and it being destroyed by the explosions! As I flew on I saw the Houses of Parliament. I tell, nothing beats the feeling you feel when you see Axis enemy forces on British soil: It`s like, "How DARE they enter England with their black crosses?!"

3. Into late `44 and `45 you`d start to see the more experimental aircraft appear, although it was quite rare that I saw the GO229 and I never saw the `propeller backwards` one.

There were some problems with the campaign though:

1. You couldn`t attack into deep enemy areas, just the borders.

2. The war finished too soon. I found in late 1944 before any really interesting aircraft appeared. I had to do badly on purpose to keep the war going.

And of course CFS3 as a game itself plays very badly. The challenge of AI isn`t there, many bugs with them (and people moan so much about FB, but it`s much better than CFS3).

Very choppy with much slowdown when anything happens. Graphics crap... etc, etc, etc... But I digress this is only about the Campaign, right?

So to summarise, I feel the `what if` aspect of CFS3 is marginally better, but FB Campaign `feels` polished and more involving, but it too fails because you always know how it`s going to end- the Allies win! In R\L pilots never REALLY knew who was going to win, not until say, 1943/44 and even then most still felt they might win/lose (depending whos side you`re on).

This is why for me Lowengrin`s DCG still holds the Campaign crown because of it`s `who will win?` feeling. I always feel i must fight desperately hard or Leningrad will indeed feel the might of the boot!

In my book EVERY historical sim should have a REALISTIC `what if` campaign to keep you on your toes. Invasions where it might have happened, new experimental aircraft that nearly made it should appear, and go on into 1946...

But at least BOB will have an alternate `what if` Campaign....

Hope that helps!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg

arcadeace
04-09-2004, 04:34 AM
Well that's quite a response. You were bringing back memories for me. I forgot how much fun I really did have. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've got it on the shelve in front of me but I'll probably never play it again. After playing FB I'll always remember the ugly too much. I do agree a well done "what it" when the outcome is not predetermined would be an exciting challenge.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1080289735_2032.gif

jpinard
04-09-2004, 01:59 PM
I'd never heard of Lowengrin`s DCG, but looked it up on the Internet. Is there a version for IL-2 or CFS3?

ZG77_Lignite
04-10-2004, 11:10 AM
There is a version for Il-2/AEP (patched to the latest versions, about 2.53 or so currently, my memory poor though). I don't believe he has done any work for CFS3, though the program was originally created for CFS2. Apologies as I don't have the address, but a search for Il-2 DCG should turn it up, or search the SimHQ.com Il-2 forum (or this one) for more information.

Capt._Tenneal
04-10-2004, 11:45 AM
Does DCG have the "what-if ?" factor even if you use it to replace the current campaign (DGEN replace) ?

LEXX_Luthor
04-10-2004, 12:03 PM
A really interesting "what if" would be Germany invading USSR in summer 1940. Say Hitler decided to go for that instead of Britain.

Don't laugh, before summer 1940 the Bf-110 was considered the most important German fighter, and had the best pilots and funding, and I think it would have done fantastic long range air superiority over Easter Front in 1940. That, and only opposition would be I~16, I~153, and maybe a few MiGs come winter time. Bf-110 would Rule!

609IAP_Recon
04-10-2004, 12:14 PM
Well, considering how badly CFS3 was done - it's kinda a mute point.

I think a campaign must be realistic - and that you have no real impact on the war. One pilot alone couldn't have changed the war.

I'd rather see historical events unfolding as you are flying for a squadron. ie. News events that occurred would be flashed up for you - as you would feel more a part of a war.

Salute!

JG50_Recon

----
http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com

SeaFireLIV
04-10-2004, 12:31 PM
What the?! Didn`t see all these responses!

Starshoy`s DGEN is good, and I`m still testing it, but he never seems to want to do much more than keep it exactly historical. The funny thing is NGEN the online Campaign does have a `what if` approach , probably because either side are flown by Humans.

I believe that there should be an offline historical Campaign AND an offline `what if` Campaign that can branch even to 1946 if the war lasts long enough especially to use those GO229 and 109Zs that are useless for offline work.

This is why DCG by Lowengrin is very good . And to answer the questions:

1. There`s an IL2/FB AEP version 2.53

2. The GREATEST thing about DCG is its `what if ` facter, you can win the war or lose it whatever side you are on. You fight TRULY as the real people did- NOT knowing who was going to win till closer to the end.

3. You can start from 1940, in fact I started a VERY LONG Campaign from the DAY BEFORE the war actually started, just to catch myself by surprise as the Russians!

4. It`s the only Campaign mod I`ve seen that enables you to watch actual ground battles going on that really affect the overall war. I think BOE has only just started doing this.


I`ve just completely reinstalled everything on a new HD so I haven`t got the link. Sorry. I will have it soon.

Try this, but it`s old, might not work...

http://members.shaw.ca/lowengrin

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Sat April 10 2004 at 11:46 AM.]

Hrannar
04-10-2004, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'd rather see historical events unfolding as you are flying for a squadron. ie. News events that occurred would be flashed up for you - as you would feel more a part of a war.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, Red Baron 3D had this feature in the campaign. IMO the campaign engine in RB3D knocks out cold both CFS 3 and FB. And RB3D was published in 1997, go figure. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

tttiger
04-10-2004, 12:38 PM
I've never flown CFS but it's hard to imagine campaigns being any worse than IL-2/FB stock campaigns by Starshoy or the new (for cash) BOE campaigns (also by Starshoy, surprise, surprise). Now, there was a waste of money. The bomber escort missions have so many planes in them they drop the FPS to a very slow slide show.

DCG is another story. I have this love-hate thing with DCG. I love the way you can Customize everything. Tired of flying a P-51? Just swap it out for a P-47 in the same campaign. Bored with the Blue Nosed B@stards? Change them for red nosed 4th FG and the campaign plays on. It's a true dynamic campaign (which means it's non-historical, and that is major flaw in my opinion although it appears many like it that way).

On the one hand, DCG can be buggy and takes lots of trial and error to make things work right. But, on the other hand, Paul is wonderful about answering questions.

All in all, DCG is the way to go. My copy of BOE already is being used for a Frisbee (the dog is getting quite good at catching it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

Finally, the only EXCELLENT campaigns I've ever seen are in Falcon 4.0, a 1998 sim which is still alive and well and constantly being improved by very talented third party developers. Of course, the planes don't have propellers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

steve_v
04-10-2004, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My copy of BOE already is being used for a Frisbee (the dog is getting quite good at catching it )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If there aren't too many teeth marks, would consider selling your copy of BoE. I live in the southeastern US. We can discuss this PT or email if you'd like to sell.
Thanks.
Steve

Old_Canuck
04-10-2004, 03:06 PM
I'm keeping my CFS3 CD on the shelf until they come out with a 40 gigagaherz processor / 10 gigs. RAM combination. Then we'll see if the problem is processing power or slap-dash programming. Would have been a great game but ...

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

269GA-Maxmars
04-10-2004, 03:26 PM
I wouldn't be so critic towards BOE and NGEN. Yes, it's still no true dynamic campaign (a la falcon 4) but it's a nice and definite improvement over stock FB campaigns.