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View Full Version : Importance of Rolling & pitching decks & ships



toutin
05-29-2004, 05:13 AM

toutin
05-29-2004, 05:13 AM

Fliger747
05-29-2004, 05:33 AM
Gee wizz, the old 20th Century technology for CFS II did this well! However to take full advantage of this one would need a "real" LSO to help time your arrival (at the right altitude) with the period of ships pitch and roll.

This is probably beyond the interest of most simmers, but would insure a long term following of those who want to recreate this experience to the highest degree. If not posible, how about a Carrier Qual addon for those to whom this is important!

olaleier
05-29-2004, 07:41 AM
Perhaps there was a reason AI never landed on carriers in CFS2?

I'm not sure these "Two, going around. Two, I'm hit, I'm hit!" numbnuts can handle the rough seas. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

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heywooood
05-29-2004, 09:02 AM
You know what I'd like to see?... since you asked. What if - in offline play - there was a difficulty setting that incorporated "carrier landing difficulty" on - off..? That way, you could practice carrier landings with all the deck rolling, low visibility, etc... separately from online or campaign play.

Now you dont have to worry about ineptitude of AI or minimal player skills disrupting the fun.

Flydutch
05-29-2004, 11:09 AM
Silly... here is the best detailled and progressing WWII Combat flight sim still from its first apereance (IL2)lacks details that ancient and outdated sims like Lucas arts S.w.o.t.l. Janes WWII Fighters, B17 and CFS2 by the disliked Microschoft featured;

S.w.o.t.l. had a incredible track player wich Great Campaign mode for its time. you could play recorded tracks like a video recorder but more exciting was the free panning camera you could move it any where you wanted it and see in al directions, afterward you could edit the track.

WWII Fighters certainly a big inspiration for Oleg! it had a Coded map that could be used to togheter with groundcontroller support that could talk you towards targets or airbases and tell you from wich side to aproach for landing's.

B-17 fliyng Fortress:
The human element in the form of animated people was a great idea.
I would love to see ground crew and pet dog welcoming me back after a save return.

CFS2 Yes, pitching flight decks and Oleg can do better then that animated icon that supossed to duplicate a signalling Flight deck Officer!

Keep this game progressing to stay the most detailled!

Lots of Good luck & Inspiration,
Kees.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toutin:
Hello,

After reading the E3 reports by Burning & Luthier, something caught my attention :"12. Pitch and Roll of the carrier may or may not be modelled. No decision on that yet they told me. That may require a huge re-working of the code."
What do you think of this feature?

IMHO, I think this detail only could lengthen the lifespan of the game (practicing real hard weather dependant landing conditions) and make PF a really exiting standard for aeronaval sims to come and, who knows, could be reused in BoB engine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sugaki
05-29-2004, 04:16 PM
As much as I'd like to see it, don't think it's a realisitic possibility if they're saying it requires major reworking of the code. With BoB to work on, they have a full plate 'o stuff.

-Aki

toutin
05-29-2004, 05:16 PM
But that would be something BoB could use (even if BoB is made from scratch, something you coded once always help).

x__CRASH__x
05-29-2004, 05:23 PM
I want to include the feature where I get to puke in a bucket too.

Actually, I never blew chunks on a carrier. Of course the Nimitz class never moved much. Not even in heavy seas.

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LEXX_Luthor
05-29-2004, 05:24 PM
Bad idea, better they focus on combat environment. But then, ship pitch and roll may be an efficient marketing point for Game Review magazines.

May take new carrier sim coded from scratch. Anyway FP will be land based MARINE sim for me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

x__CRASH__x
05-29-2004, 05:27 PM
If they can do it without seriously delaying, or messing up other aspects... why not?

But I agree that the flight combat environment must be top notch FIRST.

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Flydutch
05-30-2004, 05:12 PM
Noop!

Why sport Carrier landings if they won't come close to the real thing (as good as possible on PC)
And why set back on things that old Sims already featured... because of a deadline? Impatient public or Companys? That does not sound like the Maddox Team to me!

The landings could be much more exciting and demanding than the combat itself, like often was the case in the real event!


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
If they can do it without seriously delaying, or messing up other aspects... why not?

But I agree that the flight combat environment must be top notch FIRST.

_http://www.ghostskies.com_
http://www.ghostskies.com/
_http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

heywooood
05-30-2004, 05:26 PM
this conversation is exactly why it needs to be scalable or optional. Some people will insist that the pitching decks are crucial from a realism aspect - while others will say it is realistic but not user-friendly.. too many pilots will have a hard enough time trapping in daylight in a flat calm.

VFA-195 Snacky
05-30-2004, 11:43 PM
Honestly I cant remember a Carrier based sim whether it be jets or props that did not model some sort of deck pitch. Even during calm seas a carrier deck will pitch, maybe not as drastically as a deck pitches in a storm, but there is always a pitch to it. I cant imagine trying to land on a carrier deck which is perfectly still.

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toutin
05-31-2004, 02:58 AM
I totally agree on this feature being optional in difficulty settings, but I'd definately want it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

When reading you guys posts, I didn't know CFS2 had that! If ms cfs2 had it, maddox game can't be a step back in any domain http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ruy Horta
05-31-2004, 05:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snacky1:
Honestly I cant remember a Carrier based sim whether it be jets or props that did not model some sort of deck pitch.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmmm, must be extremely selective memory, since for a long time this was the norm. Sure carriers would move, but only forward, no pitching / rolling / surching / yawing / swaying / heaving.

Perhaps some later sims modeled some of these motions, but you only have to go back a few years to find such modeling scarce, very scarce indeed.

Ruy Horta

Fliger747
05-31-2004, 10:34 AM
Ever stood on a carrier deck during a hard turn? Talk about roll! And it's the "wrong way" too, being to the outboard.

I didn't notice that the deck pitched and rolled in CFSII till one day when I was sitting and admiring my Corsair parked there with it's wings folded. Seems they have the pitch set to about 15'.

Without some motion, I just don't think it would look or "feel" right, too sterile.

toutin
06-01-2004, 08:46 AM
ahoy meh sailors! sail teh vote! vote more!

XyZspineZyX
06-01-2004, 09:02 AM
CFS2... to get the deck to pitch and roll, extra lines were added to the particular ship.cfg file.

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = 1
bank_wave_moment_scale = 1
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

There was very little pitch/ bank in stock game

Flydutch
06-01-2004, 11:44 AM
It will really become hard to land your A/C when your out of fuel, and your carrier is performing Evasive manuevres!

That is a Feature that would realy beef up realism in a Pacific or any sim that feature ships. The only chance for survival during a bomb or torpedo attack for a ship was just like a Aircraft to perform wild movements trying to give the aiming enemy a hard time or even dodge bombs or torpedos, because of this bombing or torpedoing from long distance became inevective and the attacker needed to close in for the kill, were it would expose it self to the deadly AAA or depth charges. Hence the USAAF attacked with heavely armed (Supresive .50 and Cannon)B-25 and A-20's that would drop the bomb load from masthead hight or skipbomb 'upclose and personal' and the Japanese went even furter by ramming the ship in a so called "kamikaze attack"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vagueout:
CFS2... to get the deck to pitch and roll, extra lines were added to the particular ship.cfg file.

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = 1
bank_wave_moment_scale = 1
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

There was very little pitch/ bank in stock game<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Flydutch
06-01-2004, 11:45 AM
It will really become hard to land your A/C when your out of fuel, and your carrier is performing Evasive manuevres!

That is a Feature that would realy beef up realism in a Pacific or any sim that feature ships. The only chance for survival during a bomb or torpedo attack for a ship was just like a Aircraft to perform wild movements trying to give the aiming enemy a hard time or even dodge bombs or torpedos, because of this bombing or torpedoing from long distance became inevective and the attacker needed to close in for the kill, were it would expose it self to the deadly AAA or depth charges. Hence the USAAF attacked with heavely armed (Supresive .50 and Cannon)B-25 and A-20's that would drop the bomb load from masthead hight or skipbomb 'upclose and personal' and the Japanese went even furter by ramming the ship in a so called "kamikaze attack" <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vagueout:
CFS2... to get the deck to pitch and roll, extra lines were added to the particular ship.cfg file.

[Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = 1
bank_wave_moment_scale = 1
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 1
bank_damp_moment_scale = 1

There was very little pitch/ bank in stock game<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

tfu_iain1
06-02-2004, 10:02 AM
i think everyone is missing that cfs2's engine was built to handle carriers... pacific still uses what was started as a ground attack sim on the russian front only, no carriers there. i think the success of the game took 1C by surprise... why waste time (time=money) making it possible for ground based runways to pitch and roll? bear in mind carriers must function as home bases, spawn points, and damageable objects... the ships werent even designed to pitch and roll, as it was thought you wouldnt really notice in the few seconds you were attacking it. pacific fighters is going to stretch the IL2 technology to the limit. BoB im hoping will be built with considerations other than the BoB theatre, because they know they have a market of fans who will want more theatres.

toutin
06-02-2004, 12:27 PM
Time spent on a solution is never wasted for another project to come (in your views, BoB).
IMHO, you're restricting PF scope way too much, sounds like it would be a mod with landing strips surrouned by a blue texture http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Navy isn't just going wee wee around floating flat strips, it's low fuel, nasty changing winds, some waves shaking the thing & sweaty pants http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif well, keep voting fishies !

RedDeth
06-03-2004, 03:24 AM
anything used in PF wont be usable in bob.

if they rework the game it wont be a 2 month delay. itll be a 12 month delay.

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toutin
06-03-2004, 04:38 AM
who talked about copy pasting code bits into BoB or anything like that?
I only said time spent looking for a solution to a problem is never wasted.
It's about getting experience in a domain and benefitting from this experience. I see this as an investment.
well, It's obvious I think it's major http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ST__Spyke
06-03-2004, 12:59 PM
sounds like a difficulty setting if you ask me

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