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Hans684
08-16-2014, 10:16 PM
With Rogue as the first Templar focused game, why stop there? Future Templar games should be about what it means to be a Templar(Like AC1 and Unity is about being an Assassin). The Templar games should have it's own core and style while staying true to the lore and story. It would turn the traditional formula on it's head and still be AC, if it uses an original name or have one off its own is another case. And it would add more grayness than "Assassiny" games ever will without going "to Templar" for a fan to consider it "AC". What do you think? Is interesting for you to have it's own game and uniques like AC? It's going to be different yet the same, it's own core and style but still be the AC we love.

JustPlainQuirky
08-16-2014, 10:17 PM
I think the "playing as a templar" gimmick, while interesting, will ware off very fast.

I don't expect more than one or two more templar games in the distant future

Hans684
08-16-2014, 10:19 PM
I think the "playing as a templar" gimmick, while interesting, will ware off very fast.

I don't expect more than one or two more templar games in the distant future

And playing an Assassin isn't a gimmick :rolleyes:

SHADOWGARVIN
08-16-2014, 10:22 PM
If rogue sells well, Ubisoft will probably make more Templar games.

JustPlainQuirky
08-16-2014, 10:23 PM
If rogue sells well, Ubisoft will probably make more Templar games.

I'd be open to it


...

As long as they all star Haytham of course :rolleyes:



And Elise

Namikaze_17
08-16-2014, 10:28 PM
I'm Game for it...why not? ;)


And HOORAY for 1000th post.

*Cue Confetti*

Hans684
08-16-2014, 10:29 PM
I'd be open to it


...

As long as they all star Haytham of course :rolleyes:



And Elise



And nothing as stoping them from doing that.


If rogue sells well, Ubisoft will probably make more Templar games.

It's AC, it will sell enough. The AC with least amount sold is Brotherhood, so I suspect it to at around the same amount as Revelations or Black Flag.

Fatal-Feit
08-16-2014, 10:29 PM
And playing an Assassin isn't a gimmick :rolleyes:

The franchise have always been about Assassins, hasn't it?

Hans684
08-16-2014, 10:33 PM
The franchise have always been about Assassins, hasn't it?

We have played Assassins from the begging yes but Templars is just as much about AC since both as been in AC since day one, their enemies. Playing from the other side is no less a gimmick than playing as an Assassin.

AssassinHMS
08-16-2014, 10:47 PM
I don't see why not. But they might want to save it for cash grab games that need the "You play as a Templar" card in order to appear interesting or innovative. Then again, they may use it as an excuse to make 2 games per year (An Assassins game and a Templars game).

Though I do have to say I find the idea of a "new" core and style rather interesting. What are you suggesting?

Sushiglutton
08-16-2014, 11:01 PM
To me assassins and templars are not just different in term of their goal, but also in how they operate. The Assassins typically try to make a difference by kiling people in key positions and by helping the lower classes. Templars are much less physical. They infiltrate political structures and try to manipulate society from the top. This gives them control of armies and soliders who are doing most of their dirty work (simplyfying/generalizing a bit).

What this means to me is that we haven't really played as a "proper" templar. Both Haytham and Shay are assassins reskinned. The mechanics are exactly as the ones for an assassin. Therefor these are not examples of "real" templar gameplay imo. A proper templar game would need to be fundamentally very different. This is something I doubt Ubi will ever feel like they have the time/money to do. So no, I don't think we will see any "real" templar games.

dxsxhxcx
08-16-2014, 11:07 PM
We have played Assassins from the begging yes but Templars is just as much about AC since both as been in AC since day one, their enemies. Playing from the other side is no less a gimmick than playing as an Assassin.

the problem IMO is that the core gameplay of the franchise (IMO) suits more the Assassins' Modus operandi than the Templars', Rogue's protagonist even is a former Assassin that hunts down Assassins just to don't make the experience feel out of place because the Templar's main goal isn't even eliminate the Assassin's Order, deal with the Assassins is just a consequence of what they're trying to achieve with their main goal.


EDIT: Sushi was faster than me.. :p

SpiritOfNevaeh
08-16-2014, 11:07 PM
If the game sells well, we just might have a lot more Templar games.

Still think it should be separate from the AC franchise.

SlyTrooper
08-16-2014, 11:08 PM
Gimme Elise game. Or have Arno convert to the Templars & give him another game. :)

SHADOWGARVIN
08-16-2014, 11:13 PM
I'd be open to it


...

As long as they all star Haytham of course :rolleyes:





And Elise



lol. I hope we at least get to play as haytham in rogue. Maybe some haytham dlc? Maybe some elise dlc for unity?

Sushiglutton
08-16-2014, 11:19 PM
EDIT: Sushi was faster than me.. :p

Posting at the speed of light :cool:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5btkabWSJ1qefvvao1_500.gif

Sigv4rd
08-16-2014, 11:21 PM
I would love to play as Templar who doesn't conveniently just happen to posses a hidden blade. An actual Templar who didn't switch sides or whatever. Or perhaps we could have the opposite of Shay a character who ends up joining the Assassins but prefers more "Templary" methods?

reddragonhrcro
08-17-2014, 01:55 AM
Sure would be interesting to see more games with Templars in the main role down the road, won't be much but yeah still better than none.
Maybe present other events when the Templars have overthrown the Assassin's Order in history.Afterall in modern days Templars are the ones who are in power.

king-hailz
08-17-2014, 02:04 AM
No... This shouldn't become a regular thing... It should be just a one off! It's called Assassin's Creed for a reason... unless they make a new game just for Templars. I don't think they will do it. After all the greyness they have shown... at the end of the day the Assassins are still the good guys... I don't want any more Templar games...

Anyway I hope Rogue doesn't show any side to the Templars over the Assassins... I want to play that game to be the bad guy... and to be evil! So I hope it doesn't show the side of Templars who are good guys.

SixKeys
08-17-2014, 02:08 AM
If they broke off "Templar's creed" as its own branch, I believe it would be much more interesting if the two games had entirely different gameplay. Templars are about control, assassins are about freedom. Assassin games should be sandbox playgrounds, Templar games should be about conquering and controlling areas. This would mean the games would be marketed to two different crowds, which I believe would ultimately be better for both franchises. AC games are already suffering from series fatigue because we have too many similar games coming out each year. The Templar games could be marketed as strategy games whereas the assassin games would be action-adventure. Same basic premise, two entirely different approaches.

It'll never happen, of course, but I can dream.

Fatal-Feit
08-17-2014, 02:17 AM
^ I like that idea.

They could also take turns to give each other more time to develop. Like next year will be Templar, and the year after will be Assassins, rinse and repeat.

SlyTrooper
08-17-2014, 02:35 AM
Anyway I hope rogue doesn't show any side to the templars over the assassins... I want to play that game to be the bad guy... and to be evil! So I hope it doesn't show the side of templars who are good guys.

THE TEMPLARS AREN'T EVIL! AND THE ASSASSINS AREN'T GOOD! Read The Chain & pay attention to what the Templars are doing in ACIV & AC3!

Darkljolly
08-17-2014, 08:00 AM
No... This shouldn't become a regular thing... It should be just a one off! It's called Assassin's Creed for a reason... unless they make a new game just for Templars. I don't think they will do it. After all the greyness they have shown... at the end of the day the Assassins are still the good guys... I don't want any more Templar games...

Anyway I hope Rogue doesn't show any side to the Templars over the Assassins... I want to play that game to be the bad guy... and to be evil! So I hope it doesn't show the side of Templars who are good guys.


That is not entirely true, thats your perspetctive of things. To some other people the Templars are the good guys, its that since we've been playing for the Assassin side for so long one would think the Assassins were the good guys. Morally grey area if you ask me, none of them are good or evil as you put it. That's why I would love to see the Templars get their own series and get their side of their story. Who knows the Assassins could have done something bad to shay hence he's out for blood

Hans684
08-17-2014, 09:03 AM
If they broke off "Templar's creed" as its own branch, I believe it would be much more interesting if the two games had entirely different gameplay. Templars are about control, assassins are about freedom. Assassin games should be sandbox playgrounds, Templar games should be about conquering and controlling areas. This would mean the games would be marketed to two different crowds, which I believe would ultimately be better for both franchises. AC games are already suffering from series fatigue because we have too many similar games coming out each year. The Templar games could be marketed as strategy games whereas the assassin games would be action-adventure. Same basic premise, two entirely different approaches.

It'll never happen, of course, but I can dream.

Would you kindly share more of that dream?


No... This shouldn't become a regular thing... It should be just a one off! It's called Assassin's Creed for a reason... unless they make a new game just for Templars. I don't think they will do it. After all the greyness they have shown... at the end of the day the Assassins are still the good guys... I don't want any more Templar games...

Anyway I hope Rogue doesn't show any side to the Templars over the Assassins... I want to play that game to be the bad guy... and to be evil! So I hope it doesn't show the side of Templars who are good guys.

Please don't pull that card. I respect your opinion but I disagree. Did you even read my entire post? I did suggest giving it a name of it's own, there is no "good/bad guys". Assassins are hypocritical criminals abusing freedom to give freedom to end the fight for freedom. Templars are power hungry figures wanting to make the desistions for everybody else by control, they use control to end pointless fighting while fighting to get peacefully control. Both do what they fight agains, by creating chaos to get pace trough freedom and control. I desperately hope Rogue shows any possible side of the Templars, we need it consider people look at them as "bad guys" while hypocritically supporting the Assassins who do the same in a different way. But that's not the main point of this thread, even trough I love to talk about the grayness. This is the Templar version of "Future AC Titles".


Gimme Elise game. Or have Arno convert to the Templars & give him another game. :)

I'd rather have an Elise game but I'm not agains the idea.


If the game sells well, we just might have a lot more Templar games.

Still think it should be separate from the AC franchise.

This is the second game where we play a Templar, I'd say we doing just fine.


the problem IMO is that the core gameplay of the franchise (IMO) suits more the Assassins' Modus operandi than the Templars', Rogue's protagonist even is a former Assassin that hunts down Assassins just to don't make the experience feel out of place because the Templar's main goal isn't even eliminate the Assassin's Order, deal with the Assassins is just a consequence of what they're trying to achieve with their main goal.


EDIT: Sushi was faster than me.. :p

That's why I said *new* core and style, we just need to find the best possible way of doing exactly that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

To everyone:

I'm far more interested in your ideas of a Templar game, give me all you've got. Don't hold anything back.


Though I do have to say I find the idea of a "new" core and style rather interesting. What are you suggesting?

Semi-stealth, combat and exploration is all I've got.

Stealth isn't much of a "Templar thing" even trough they always do what they deem needed, therefore it's going to be fast and deadly stealth(Panther from SC: Blacklist). Their wary direct in their way of working, in previous games they always try to eliminate any possible treats(us). And to not make us brain dead, it has to be tactical. We just can run in silently shoot/takedown every Assassin like devil dressed as a man taking out an entire deck of a ship like it was nothing.

Combat should be different from AC but still have the same level of challenge as Unity, it should be more of a crusader style with RPG elements. So we can get skill but not enough to get overpowered, sure the Templars have to money to make us overpowered so that's why it's going to be RPG like. Honorable mentions is Templar ring/neckless/broad sword(or what ever it is called)/Templar armors and tricorn hat as signature Templar elements like the Assassin hood/Hidden Blades/robes etc... Is for AC. It has to give a different feel. We should feel like a Templar.

I say exploration because parkour isn't going to be our way of getting around unless you choose to be skilled at it(RPG element), to begin with it's going to be basic running(with slide and wualt) and climbing. Can't take all of it away. We should explore and bring control, it's what the gameplay should be focused on. A wanted system is not needed since we are a Templar, we will always be hunted. The game should make us paranoid and scared to just walk around, Assassins should be everywhere and consider their are trained killers they should kill you at their assassination attempt unless you spot them before they can make there move(counter button from Rogue demo). Guards and Vali(Assassin-turned-Templar(Revelations)) has shown how to avoid their signature moves. And stuff like that is going to be part of the RPG like progression system like Unity. Obviously the game itself won't be an RPG, it's just gonna borrow elements. MD and the Animus and such is still gonna be in the game, it's just going to be more Templar focused. Then there is other stuff like stoping assassinations(like Rogue but think W_D), Eagle Vision is debatable since anyone can get but there is something called Templar Vision(it's a better candidate). At the moment that's all I've got. The idea itself need to be more polished but it's just a general idea of a future Templar game. The game has to as much Templar as possible while not being Assassin reskinned.

Do you have any ideas?

Journey93
08-17-2014, 02:19 PM
While I would be open to this I want them to focus on the Brotherhood again with Unity and future games
in the last two games the Brotherhood wasn't really that prominent
so back to assassins please and then they can make some templar games too
no problem with that

Dome500
08-17-2014, 03:15 PM
Sure, I have nothing against future Templar games as long as they evolve with the main series (in terms of gameplay).

SixKeys
08-17-2014, 03:23 PM
Would you kindly share more of that dream?

To everyone:

I'm far more interested in your ideas of a Templar game, give me all you've got. Don't hold anything back.

I haven't given it that much thought, but I always thought a Templar game should be about manipulating politicians, fighting for control and trying to rise to the top. Assassins manipulate crowds with social stealth, trying to be as discreet as possible, just one person lost in the masses. A Templar game should be the opposite of that. It should be a strategy game where each move has to be carefully calculated. Similar to the brotherhood missions where you can send assassins to foreign countries to fight for control, but deeper and more fleshed out. You would be a Templar overseer, a general of sorts who has to weigh the risks and rewards of gaining footing in one area while possibly losing some in another. For example you might have to give up control of a certain area because it's draining your funds too much and focus on a more profitable area that will keep your Order afloat financially, so that you can focus on gaining political favor. Your success would be measured by how many people you convert to the Templar ideology. As long as you can show people of the world that the Templars will keep them happy, you gain favor with them. I guess this sounds a lot like Civilization the more I think about it.

Hans684
08-17-2014, 04:00 PM
I haven't given it that much thought, but I always thought a Templar game should be about manipulating politicians, fighting for control and trying to rise to the top. Assassins manipulate crowds with social stealth, trying to be as discreet as possible, just one person lost in the masses. A Templar game should be the opposite of that. It should be a strategy game where each move has to be carefully calculated. Similar to the brotherhood missions where you can send assassins to foreign countries to fight for control, but deeper and more fleshed out. You would be a Templar overseer, a general of sorts who has to weigh the risks and rewards of gaining footing in one area while possibly losing some in another. For example you might have to give up control of a certain area because it's draining your funds too much and focus on a more profitable area that will keep your Order afloat financially, so that you can focus on gaining political favor. Your success would be measured by how many people you convert to the Templar ideology. As long as you can show people of the world that the Templars will keep them happy, you gain favor with them. I guess this sounds a lot like Civilization the more I think about it.

Not a bad idea and I'm going to be honest but it was also unexpected. I havn't played much games like Civilization. So I can't really say much about this idea other than that I'm not against it.


Sure, I have nothing against future Templar games as long as they evolve with the main series (in terms of gameplay).

What gameplay? Share your idea, what gameplay fits a Templar?

AssassinHMS
08-17-2014, 05:21 PM
Semi-stealth, combat and exploration is all I've got.

Stealth isn't much of a "Templar thing" even trough they always do what they deem needed, therefore it's going to be fast and deadly stealth(Panther from SC: Blacklist). Their wary direct in their way of working, in previous games they always try to eliminate any possible treats(us). And to not make us brain dead, it has to be tactical. We just can run in silently shoot/takedown every Assassin like devil dressed as a man taking out an entire deck of a ship like it was nothing.

Combat should be different from AC but still have the same level of challenge as Unity, it should be more of a crusader style with RPG elements. So we can get skill but not enough to get overpowered, sure the Templars have to money to make us overpowered so that's why it's going to be RPG like. Honorable mentions is Templar ring/neckless/broad sword(or what ever it is called)/Templar armors and tricorn hat as signature Templar elements like the Assassin hood/Hidden Blades/robes etc... Is for AC. It has to give a different feel. We should feel like a Templar.

I say exploration because parkour isn't going to be our way of getting around unless you choose to be skilled at it(RPG element), to begin with it's going to be basic running(with slide and wualt) and climbing. Can't take all of it away. We should explore and bring control, it's what the gameplay should be focused on. A wanted system is not needed since we are a Templar, we will always be hunted. The game should make us paranoid and scared to just walk around, Assassins should be everywhere and consider their are trained killers they should kill you at their assassination attempt unless you spot them before they can make there move(counter button from Rogue demo). Guards and Vali(Assassin-turned-Templar(Revelations)) has shown how to avoid their signature moves. And stuff like that is going to be part of the RPG like progression system like Unity. Obviously the game itself won't be an RPG, it's just gonna borrow elements. MD and the Animus and such is still gonna be in the game, it's just going to be more Templar focused. Then there is other stuff like stoping assassinations(like Rogue but think W_D), Eagle Vision is debatable since anyone can get but there is something called Templar Vision(it's a better candidate). At the moment that's all I've got. The idea itself need to be more polished but it's just a general idea of a future Templar game. The game has to as much Templar as possible while not being Assassin reskinned.

Do you have any ideas?

Ah, I see. Well, I like it but I don’t know if it would justify a whole new branch of games. I think it should feel a lot different from traditional AC games.

Ubisoft’s Assassins are, in general, a lot more physical. Templars usually fight indirectly and don’t expose themselves as much. They are more passive. As such, I want the gameplay to make the Assassins vastly superior in the physical department but vulnerable to more indirect tactics:
1 – No parkour. Parkour is part of an Assassin’s training. Templars methods don’t require this skill. In order to reach rooftops and other high places, the player would have to look for levers or easy paths to climb. This is also where the Assassins have the upper hand. In comparison, the player would feel unprotected and weak while exploring the world. In order to protect himself from ambushes, he could use carriages to travel or hire minions in addition to a personal bodyguard.
2 – No hidden blade. Sure, the protagonist could steal/get one from an Assassin (as usual) but then the game wouldn’t feel like a pure Templar game. A dagger in the boot could easily replace the hidden blade.
3 – Difficult Combat. Assassins are skilled fighters. Even if you fully upgrade your character in combat expertise, fighting an Assassin should still be a very challenging battle. Templars avoid direct confrontation; combat would be a last resource. The game should encourage the player to kill indirectly, to think like a puppet master and pull the strings that will lead the Assassins to their downfall. If an Assassin ambushes you, your objective isn’t to kill him/her, it’s to survive.
So how do you fight Assassins?
You don’t fight them one by one (like they do); you fight the whole Brotherhood at once and eliminate the key elements (the Assassins/contacts that keep the whole thing together).
The objective is to expand the Templar ideology, gain powerful allies and turn the whole city against the Assassins, area by area, district by district. As for the key elements, you have to frame them, turn people against them, corner them and kill them when they are most vulnerable. Needless to say that money is the most important asset.

4 – No traditional social stealth. Instead, there would be a “persona” system. As far as people know, the protagonist is a respected figure (like a noble or a politician), powerful but apparently harmless. This is the “passive” persona. By wearing “normal” outfits the NPCs will recognize him and treat him with respect and the city will be fully open. In this persona you can get close to key individuals that you may recruit or manipulate. This is the perfect persona to indirectly eliminate the Assassins (by bribing and manipulating the right people, forming alliances, etc.) and also to increase the number of hands and eyes the Templars possess. It is, as well, the best way for the player to make money through business and exchanging favors (like eliminating a politician’s political adversary in exchange for his support). However, the player cannot carry any weapons other than a concealed dagger (and, perhaps, a sword cane) and any social unacceptable action will bring negative consequences to this persona diminishing the power and status.
Then there is the “active” persona (marked by the Templar outfit with the face covered by a hood or mask). In this case, the player will not have the bonuses of his social status. Guards will be suspicious of him, blaming him for any “problem” and he will not be allowed into social events of any kind. On the other hand, this is a high profile persona. The player can now carry his weapons and commit social unacceptable actions without fear of damaging his reputation.

Hans684
08-17-2014, 05:59 PM
Ah, I see. Well, I like it but I don’t know if it would justify a whole new branch of games. I think it should feel a lot different from traditional AC games.

Ubisoft’s Assassins are, in general, a lot more physical. Templars usually fight indirectly and don’t expose themselves as much. They are more passive. As such, I want the gameplay to make the Assassins vastly superior in the physical department but vulnerable to more indirect tactics:
1 – No parkour. Parkour is part of an Assassin’s training. Templars methods don’t require this skill. In order to reach rooftops and other high places, the player would have to look for levers or easy paths to climb. This is also where the Assassins have the upper hand. In comparison, the player would feel unprotected and weak while exploring the world. In order to protect himself from ambushes, he could use carriages to travel or hire minions in addition to a personal bodyguard.

2 – No hidden blade. Sure, the protagonist could steal/get one from an Assassin (as usual) but then the game wouldn’t feel like a pure Templar game. A dagger in the boot could easily replace the hidden blade.
3 – Difficult Combat. Assassins are skilled fighters. Even if you fully upgrade your character in combat expertise, fighting an Assassin should still be a very challenging battle. Templars avoid direct confrontation; combat would be a last resource. The game should encourage the player to kill indirectly, to think like a puppet master and pull the strings that will lead the Assassins to their downfall. If an Assassin ambushes you, your objective isn’t to kill him/her, it’s to survive.
So how do you fight Assassins?
You don’t fight them one by one (like they do); you fight the whole Brotherhood at once and eliminate the key elements (the Assassins/contacts that keep the whole thing together).
The objective is to expand the Templar ideology, gain powerful allies and turn the whole city against the Assassins, area by area, district by district. As for the key elements, you have to frame them, turn people against them, corner them and kill them when they are most vulnerable. Needless to say that money is the most important asset.

4 – No traditional social stealth. Instead, there would be a “persona” system. As far as people know, the protagonist is a respected figure (like a noble or a politician), powerful but apparently harmless. This is the “passive” persona. By wearing “normal” outfits the NPCs will recognize him and treat him with respect and the city will be fully open. In this persona you can get close to key individuals that you may recruit or manipulate. This is the perfect persona to indirectly eliminate the Assassins (by bribing and manipulating the right people, forming alliances, etc.) and also to increase the number of hands and eyes the Templars possess. It is, as well, the best way for the player to make money through business and exchanging favors (like eliminating a politician’s political adversary in exchange for his support). However, the player cannot carry any weapons other than a concealed dagger (and, perhaps, a sword cane) and any social unacceptable action will bring negative consequences to this persona diminishing the power and status.
Then there is the “active” persona (marked by the Templar outfit with the face covered by a hood or mask). In this case, the player will not have the bonuses of his social status. Guards will be suspicious of him, blaming him for any “problem” and he will not be allowed into social events of any kind. On the other hand, this is a high profile persona. The player can now carry his weapons and commit social unacceptable actions without fear of damaging his reputation.

http://answers.unity3d.com/storage/temp/26334-image.jpg

This is the best idea so far, gives it's own feel whilst staying true to the lore. Only "problem" is going to be the name, it's defiantly to different to have "Assassin's Creed". I'd don't really know what to say and the meme explains it well enough.

SlyTrooper
08-17-2014, 06:11 PM
http://answers.unity3d.com/storage/temp/26334-image.jpg

This is the best idea so far, gives it's own feel whilst staying true to the lore. Only "problem" is going to be the name, it's defiantly to different to have "Assassin's Creed". I'd don't really know what to say and the meme explains it well enough.

This, although sounding interesting, would be very risky for Ubi. Without the parkour they have nothing to fall back on; if the mechanics don't work, the game will be bad.

Hans684
08-17-2014, 06:34 PM
This, although sounding interesting, would be very risky for Ubi. Without the parkour they have nothing to fall back on; if the mechanics don't work, the game will be bad.

"Legends ain't born from mildness."

But it depends more on the performance, like AC(1) compared to Hitman then Hitman is better in term of assassinations because of the freedom it gives but if you compare Hitman to Unity, well AC has evolved. Unity is going to beat "the original Assassin"(marketing tactic used for Absolution). It has more freedom on how to approach each assassination than Hitman. First we need a "true" Templar game to get the basics sett in stone(like AC1), then it's all about pushing the limits and evolve. Not to mention Ubisoft can handle a bad performance, it's most likely going to be AC1 all over again. Then at some point we will get another Unity(pushing the limits and evolve). That's how I think performance wise the Templar games will be.

Darkljolly
08-17-2014, 06:35 PM
What if they did it likes spies vs mercs from splinter cell?

Assassins third person

Templars first person?

OR

Templars have limited parkour but much more health and access to stronger weapons than the assassins

Fatal-Feit
08-17-2014, 06:51 PM
Ah, I see. Well, I like it but I don’t know if it would justify a whole new branch of games. I think it should feel a lot different from traditional AC games.

Ubisoft’s Assassins are, in general, a lot more physical. Templars usually fight indirectly and don’t expose themselves as much. They are more passive. As such, I want the gameplay to make the Assassins vastly superior in the physical department but vulnerable to more indirect tactics:
1 – No parkour. Parkour is part of an Assassin’s training. Templars methods don’t require this skill. In order to reach rooftops and other high places, the player would have to look for levers or easy paths to climb. This is also where the Assassins have the upper hand. In comparison, the player would feel unprotected and weak while exploring the world. In order to protect himself from ambushes, he could use carriages to travel or hire minions in addition to a personal bodyguard.
2 – No hidden blade. Sure, the protagonist could steal/get one from an Assassin (as usual) but then the game wouldn’t feel like a pure Templar game. A dagger in the boot could easily replace the hidden blade.
3 – Difficult Combat. Assassins are skilled fighters. Even if you fully upgrade your character in combat expertise, fighting an Assassin should still be a very challenging battle. Templars avoid direct confrontation; combat would be a last resource. The game should encourage the player to kill indirectly, to think like a puppet master and pull the strings that will lead the Assassins to their downfall. If an Assassin ambushes you, your objective isn’t to kill him/her, it’s to survive.
So how do you fight Assassins?
You don’t fight them one by one (like they do); you fight the whole Brotherhood at once and eliminate the key elements (the Assassins/contacts that keep the whole thing together).
The objective is to expand the Templar ideology, gain powerful allies and turn the whole city against the Assassins, area by area, district by district. As for the key elements, you have to frame them, turn people against them, corner them and kill them when they are most vulnerable. Needless to say that money is the most important asset.

4 – No traditional social stealth. Instead, there would be a “persona” system. As far as people know, the protagonist is a respected figure (like a noble or a politician), powerful but apparently harmless. This is the “passive” persona. By wearing “normal” outfits the NPCs will recognize him and treat him with respect and the city will be fully open. In this persona you can get close to key individuals that you may recruit or manipulate. This is the perfect persona to indirectly eliminate the Assassins (by bribing and manipulating the right people, forming alliances, etc.) and also to increase the number of hands and eyes the Templars possess. It is, as well, the best way for the player to make money through business and exchanging favors (like eliminating a politician’s political adversary in exchange for his support). However, the player cannot carry any weapons other than a concealed dagger (and, perhaps, a sword cane) and any social unacceptable action will bring negative consequences to this persona diminishing the power and status.
Then there is the “active” persona (marked by the Templar outfit with the face covered by a hood or mask). In this case, the player will not have the bonuses of his social status. Guards will be suspicious of him, blaming him for any “problem” and he will not be allowed into social events of any kind. On the other hand, this is a high profile persona. The player can now carry his weapons and commit social unacceptable actions without fear of damaging his reputation.

11/10

SpiritOfNevaeh
08-17-2014, 06:58 PM
Ah, I see. Well, I like it but I don’t know if it would justify a whole new branch of games. I think it should feel a lot different from traditional AC games.

Ubisoft’s Assassins are, in general, a lot more physical. Templars usually fight indirectly and don’t expose themselves as much. They are more passive. As such, I want the gameplay to make the Assassins vastly superior in the physical department but vulnerable to more indirect tactics:
1 – No parkour. Parkour is part of an Assassin’s training. Templars methods don’t require this skill. In order to reach rooftops and other high places, the player would have to look for levers or easy paths to climb. This is also where the Assassins have the upper hand. In comparison, the player would feel unprotected and weak while exploring the world. In order to protect himself from ambushes, he could use carriages to travel or hire minions in addition to a personal bodyguard.
2 – No hidden blade. Sure, the protagonist could steal/get one from an Assassin (as usual) but then the game wouldn’t feel like a pure Templar game. A dagger in the boot could easily replace the hidden blade.
3 – Difficult Combat. Assassins are skilled fighters. Even if you fully upgrade your character in combat expertise, fighting an Assassin should still be a very challenging battle. Templars avoid direct confrontation; combat would be a last resource. The game should encourage the player to kill indirectly, to think like a puppet master and pull the strings that will lead the Assassins to their downfall. If an Assassin ambushes you, your objective isn’t to kill him/her, it’s to survive.
So how do you fight Assassins?
You don’t fight them one by one (like they do); you fight the whole Brotherhood at once and eliminate the key elements (the Assassins/contacts that keep the whole thing together).
The objective is to expand the Templar ideology, gain powerful allies and turn the whole city against the Assassins, area by area, district by district. As for the key elements, you have to frame them, turn people against them, corner them and kill them when they are most vulnerable. Needless to say that money is the most important asset.

4 – No traditional social stealth. Instead, there would be a “persona” system. As far as people know, the protagonist is a respected figure (like a noble or a politician), powerful but apparently harmless. This is the “passive” persona. By wearing “normal” outfits the NPCs will recognize him and treat him with respect and the city will be fully open. In this persona you can get close to key individuals that you may recruit or manipulate. This is the perfect persona to indirectly eliminate the Assassins (by bribing and manipulating the right people, forming alliances, etc.) and also to increase the number of hands and eyes the Templars possess. It is, as well, the best way for the player to make money through business and exchanging favors (like eliminating a politician’s political adversary in exchange for his support). However, the player cannot carry any weapons other than a concealed dagger (and, perhaps, a sword cane) and any social unacceptable action will bring negative consequences to this persona diminishing the power and status.
Then there is the “active” persona (marked by the Templar outfit with the face covered by a hood or mask). In this case, the player will not have the bonuses of his social status. Guards will be suspicious of him, blaming him for any “problem” and he will not be allowed into social events of any kind. On the other hand, this is a high profile persona. The player can now carry his weapons and commit social unacceptable actions without fear of damaging his reputation.

Very good points here!

AssassinHMS
08-17-2014, 10:58 PM
http://answers.unity3d.com/storage/temp/26334-image.jpg

This is the best idea so far, gives it's own feel whilst staying true to the lore. Only "problem" is going to be the name, it's defiantly to different to have "Assassin's Creed". I'd don't really know what to say and the meme explains it well enough.

Yeah but, since the whole point of the game is to behave and think like a Templar, it would probably be called “the Knights Templar series”…or something.
Either that or “Red Cross” ahah



This, although sounding interesting, would be very risky for Ubi. Without the parkour they have nothing to fall back on; if the mechanics don't work, the game will be bad.
Yes but I think the whole point is to make something that feels “different”. When I think about playing as a Templar, I feel excited at the thought of all the untapped potential (“What would it be like to be in the shoes of a Templar, to be on the other side?”). What interests me is exactly the difference between the two ("What method would a Templar choose?"; "How would a Templar approach this situation?") If the gameplay feels the same, then I would be very disappointed. If the only difference is in the robes then I might as well play as an Assassin forever for all I care.
Ubisoft has avoided this situation by making sure that every playable Templar is a former Assassin but I see that as “cheating” as those characters don’t make me feel like a real Templar.

Besides, they can always fall back on the historical tour. Ubisoft has already proven they hardly even need AC’s core to sell the games. If they can pull naval out of nowhere, they can most certainly make the mechanics in this game work.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 11:03 PM
The Order: 1886 should be bought by Ubisoft and made into our Templar game series

Fatal-Feit
08-17-2014, 11:22 PM
The Order: 1886 should be bought by Ubisoft and made into our Templar game series

That's exactly what I've wanted since the first demo aired.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 11:25 PM
I actually think The Order should stay it's own game, but I think it has a really good setting and style for a Templar game :/

Darkljolly
08-17-2014, 11:30 PM
The Order: 1886 should be bought by Ubisoft and made into our Templar game series

Dude, stop mind reading me

reddragonhrcro
08-18-2014, 01:07 AM
We are also overthinking things a bit.
Doesn't mean we have to play a Master Templar who pulls the strings from the shadows but one who carries out the orders.Afterall the Templars had people who did their dirty work.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120123033402/assassinscreed/images/6/68/Prowler.png

Fatal-Feit
08-18-2014, 04:19 AM
Haytham was quite the Assassin in Forsaken, only he didn't have a hidden blade and climbed rooftops.

Hans684
08-18-2014, 11:45 AM
Haytham was quite the Assassin in Forsaken, only he didn't have a hidden blade and climbed rooftops.

He never was an Assassin.


We are also overthinking things a bit.
Doesn't mean we have to play a Master Templar who pulls the strings from the shadows but one who carries out the orders.Afterall the Templars had people who did their dirty work.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120123033402/assassinscreed/images/6/68/Prowler.png

True but then it won't be something of it's own, it would be to Assassin-y.


Yeah but, since the whole point of the game is to behave and think like a Templar, it would probably be called “the Knights Templar series”…or something.
Either that or “Red Cross” ahah

First could work and Second is fitting. I prefer "The Order: [numbers]" but it's already taken, maybe something like "The New World/Order/Age", I have mixed feelings about "The Father Of Understanding", "Templar's Greed" and "Templar's Goal" is out, or just "Order: [subtitle]". Without the "The".

Fatal-Feit
08-18-2014, 11:56 AM
He never was an Assassin.

I know, but he was an excellent assassin. He was stealthy, cunning, and capable of taking down many targets. He was like an Assassin but without the hidden blade and flashy parkour.

Hans684
08-18-2014, 12:03 PM
I know, but he was an excellent assassin. He was stealthy, cunning, and capable of taking down many targets. He was like an Assassin but without the hidden blade and flashy parkour.

Take away The Creed from an Assassin and it's just a common criminal killing hight profile people for a "better future"(a.k.a assassin), if they use stealth or not will be irrelevant by that point.

But that's not the point of this thread.

Fatal-Feit
08-18-2014, 12:10 PM
Take away The Creed from an Assassin and it's just a common criminal killing hight profile people for a "better future"(a.k.a assassin), if they use stealth or not will be irrelevant by that point.

But that's not the point of this thread.

My point is, even some Templar plays like Assassins. If we were to have a real Templar title and the gameplay is not a re:hash of Assassin's Creed, it can still be about stealth, reminiscence of AC:3.

SixKeys
08-18-2014, 01:39 PM
AssassinsHMS' persona system sounds exactly like Liberation. I like it, just saying it doesn't sound that different from AC.

I'm down with no parkour in a Templar game. Assassins have agility and social stealth on their side, Templars have money and power (brute strength and political influence).

Not sure about combat. The more elements you add from AC proper, the more the two franchises will feel the same. I would still prefer a Templar game to be more strategy-based than action-adventure, but that's just me.

Shahkulu101
08-18-2014, 01:45 PM
Templar game in slightly more modern-y periods like uh...Russian revolution or something. Or any interesting period between like 1920 -1960. Think that would work.

Turn it into strategy based shooter. Or generic 3rd person shooter, wouldn't mind that in all honesty if the story was good and the shooting fun. No sticking to cover for the entire game - a 3rd person Wolfenstein or similar.

Hans684
08-18-2014, 01:45 PM
AssassinsHMS' persona system sounds exactly like Liberation. I like it, just saying it doesn't sound that different from AC.

I'm down with no parkour in a Templar game. Assassins have agility and social stealth on their side, Templars have money and power (brute strength and political influence).

Not sure about combat. The more elements you add from AC proper, the more the two franchises will feel the same. I would still prefer a Templar game to be more strategy-based than action-adventure, but that's just me.

Strategy-based-action-adventure?

Fatal-Feit
08-18-2014, 01:47 PM
Templar game in slightly more modern-y periods like uh...Russian revolution or something. Or any interesting period between like 1920 -1960. Think that would work.

Turn it into strategy based shooter. Or generic 3rd person shooter, wouldn't mind that in all honesty if the story was good and the shooting fun. No sticking to cover for the entire game - a 3rd person Wolfenstein or similar.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVSfjmB2yi0

Shahkulu101
08-18-2014, 01:50 PM
The story looks terrible in The Order, though. The knights of the round table somehow transferred through time to industrial London to fight with ridiculously out of place weapons made by Nikolai Tesla who is also somehow alive at this point. Like a twisted fanfic some kid would make.

I'm 90% sure The Order will suck and be made irrelevant so not a problem if the gameplay in a Templar game is similar.

Hans684
08-18-2014, 05:22 PM
The story looks terrible in The Order, though. The knights of the round table somehow transferred through time to industrial London to fight with ridiculously out of place weapons made by Nikolai Tesla who is also somehow alive at this point. Like a twisted fanfic some kid would make.

I'm 90% sure The Order will suck and be made irrelevant so not a problem if the gameplay in a Templar game is similar.

And the Templars of AC is all over the place, even after their historical down fall. The story is another never ending battle like the war between Jedi/Sith, Assassin/Templar etc... AC to twist historical
Events/people for their story. It might suck but if it sucks enough to cause damage, then Ubisoft can buy and reboot the IP(if it goes that bad) to fit their Templar. Or Ubisoft can challenge them head on with something similar Templar focused but still part of AC.


Templar game in slightly more modern-y periods like uh...Russian revolution or something. Or any interesting period between like 1920 -1960. Think that would work.

Turn it into strategy based shooter. Or generic 3rd person shooter, wouldn't mind that in all honesty if the story was good and the shooting fun. No sticking to cover for the entire game - a 3rd person Wolfenstein or similar.

It does fit the style of a Templar agent, consider their way is more gun focused. Especially in modern or modern-y times.


My point is, even some Templar plays like Assassins. If we were to have a real Templar title and the gameplay is not a re:hash of Assassin's Creed, it can still be about stealth, reminiscence of AC:3.

Any ideas?

Jexx21
08-18-2014, 07:41 PM
The story looks terrible in The Order, though. The knights of the round table somehow transferred through time to industrial London to fight with ridiculously out of place weapons made by Nikolai Tesla who is also somehow alive at this point. Like a twisted fanfic some kid would make.

I'm 90% sure The Order will suck and be made irrelevant so not a problem if the gameplay in a Templar game is similar.

The Order takes place in 1886. Nikolai was 30 years old in 1886... that is feasible.

Also, it doesn't sound like they're the actual Knights of the Round Table, but rather they're an order who name themselves after the knights of the round table, and their order descends from them.

I think it sounds interesting.

AssassinHMS
08-18-2014, 08:23 PM
First could work and Second is fitting. I prefer "The Order: [numbers]" but it's already taken, maybe something like "The New World/Order/Age", I have mixed feelings about "The Father Of Understanding", "Templar's Greed" and "Templar's Goal" is out, or just "Order: [subtitle]". Without the "The".

Yeah, I think "The New World" is my favorite. Or "Baphomet" (which I think it is, pretty much, the same as "The Father of Understanding")




AssassinsHMS' persona system sounds exactly like Liberation. I like it, just saying it doesn't sound that different from AC.

I'm down with no parkour in a Templar game. Assassins have agility and social stealth on their side, Templars have money and power (brute strength and political influence).

Not sure about combat. The more elements you add from AC proper, the more the two franchises will feel the same. I would still prefer a Templar game to be more strategy-based than action-adventure, but that's just me.

Yes, I agree. I just tried to picture a system that would portray the usefulness in having two identities (Noble/Templar) and it became something similar to Liberation's personas (although I never played the game). Still, I don't think the similarity would be a big problem. In Liberation, the persona system (from what I saw) was something simple and rudimentary. What I'm suggesting is a robust and deep persona that opens up an entirely different type of gameplay.
I was also trying to make the game more strategy-based in the form of the "passive" persona. Basically, the player would start and build his own conspiracy. It would be strategy-based in the sense that he would have to organize the whole operation. It would start as something small but by managing his resources, manipulating the society higher-ups and choosing people to join the cause, the player would push back the Assassins from the city bit by bit. As for the Master Assassins, the player would have to find ways to take them down, in a first phase, indirectly (by using the power and influence gained) and then, if necessary, directly (by hunting them down with the "active" persona). We could, for example, frame our target and then casually attend the execution (like Rodrigo in AC2).
But I'd also like a bit of action in the form of the "active" persona. Nothing over-the-top, but a little of a personal touch in the execution of tougher enemies.

Hans684
08-19-2014, 08:35 AM
Yeah, I think "The New World" is my favorite. Or "Baphomet" (which I think it is, pretty much, the same as "The Father of Understanding")

It's speculated that "The Father Of Understanding" is actually Cain, in one of Clay's hidden glyphs. It talks about the mark of Cain, but it might be to controversial to name it either "Baphomet" or "Cain".

HiddenKiller612
08-19-2014, 08:40 AM
I think a WWII templar game would be awesome... and pretty much the only way we'd see a WWII game... Templars aren't bound to the shadows, and wouldn't limit themselves to merely melee weapons.

Fatal-Feit
08-19-2014, 08:58 AM
The story looks terrible in The Order, though. The knights of the round table somehow transferred through time to industrial London to fight with ridiculously out of place weapons made by Nikolai Tesla who is also somehow alive at this point. Like a twisted fanfic some kid would make.

I'm 90% sure The Order will suck and be made irrelevant so not a problem if the gameplay in a Templar game is similar.

I want Ubisoft to trademark that game and use its assets to make a good Templar game.


Any ideas?

Food for thought.

riadach
08-19-2014, 02:12 PM
Given the homage Shadow Of Mordor seems to be give to Assassin's Creed principles, perhaps Templars, who are more about manipulation, could be influenced SOM's genesis system to symbolise manipulating oneself through the ranks of a city or country. Perhaps each game could be about manipulating the church, the army and the political class just enough to allow the templars become the power behind the throne.

Maybe instead of an eagle vision, they could have a templar's voice whereby they could persuade the weak willed to do what they wish.

ze_topazio
08-19-2014, 04:54 PM
The story looks terrible in The Order, though. The knights of the round table somehow transferred through time to industrial London to fight with ridiculously out of place weapons made by Nikolai Tesla who is also somehow alive at this point. Like a twisted fanfic some kid would make.

I'm 90% sure The Order will suck and be made irrelevant so not a problem if the gameplay in a Templar game is similar.

The Order takes place in an alternate timeline were these strange monsters appeared at some point in history and the world developed in a different way, the technology in particular being more developed.