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View Full Version : About the story setting,is Eagle Vision/Sense more passive than what Animus shows?



sleeplust
08-16-2014, 03:04 PM
I don't think that the ability need to be "activated" when the characters deem that the condition need to be scanned,is a good design.It sounds like Shyaringan in Naruto!
A passive or more passive ability/skill may be more effective in utility,smarter and also simple and easy for the story writers or gameplay designers to control or alter in the future.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Eagle_Vision

I see that this link is not official.

"In Assassin's Creed, Eagle Vision was said to actually be the Animus' visualization of the Assassin's observational skills."

Is here the right forum?Could this be read by the developers?

AherasSTRG
08-16-2014, 03:25 PM
I don't know how to properly explain it, but...

It is a visualisation (the assassins did not perceive their targets as painted red), but in order for the assassin to actually feel and analyse his surroundings carefully, he needed to concentrate on the individuals around him. And, since you cannot focus and concentrate all the time, Eagle Vision is toggled on and off.

pacmanate
08-16-2014, 03:32 PM
Well it use to be focusing your senses, like Edward says seeing sounds etc.

The animus just gives the "player" a visualization. Eg, Edward did not see his enemies literally glow in Red. And at the same time, it is just a sense, which is why Eagle Vision can be "wrong" sometimes.

But with Unity, it seems like they've thrown it out the window. A lot of RPG elements in Unity now. I mean, UPGRADING eagle vision? What? That doesn't even make sense. Arnos ability if anything should progress naturally throughout the game, not for what we decide to use skill points on or whatever

dxsxhxcx
08-16-2014, 03:33 PM
as long as they keep the ability to see through walls then no, IMO it should never become automatic (if that's what you're implying)..

IMO EV/S should work like in one of the situations we had in ACR where we had to find the Den's captains, we needed to search for (and "scan") them instead of simply see a glowing lamp walking around as soon as we activate EV..

ze_topazio
08-16-2014, 03:42 PM
"In Assassin's Creed, Eagle Vision was said to actually be the Animus' visualization of the Assassin's observational skills."

This was stated and debunked on the exact same game, originally believed to be a trick of the animus, at the end of AC1, plot twist, Desmond activates eagle vision outside of the animus.

pacmanate
08-16-2014, 03:44 PM
"In Assassin's Creed, Eagle Vision was said to actually be the Animus' visualization of the Assassin's observational skills."

This was stated and debunked on the exact same game, originally believed to be a trick of the animus, at the end of AC1, plot twist, Desmond activates eagle vision outside of the animus.

Well... we are playing a game at the end of the day. How else would they represent eagle vision anyway?

ze_topazio
08-16-2014, 04:00 PM
No observational skill can let you see hidden symbols in the walls and throughout the series they have talked about it many times, describing it as a sixth sense, a special vision, etc..., it's definitely a real thing.

AherasSTRG
08-16-2014, 04:11 PM
But with Unity, it seems like they've thrown it out the window. A lot of RPG elements in Unity now. I mean, UPGRADING eagle vision? What? That doesn't even make sense. Arnos ability if anything should progress naturally throughout the game, not for what we decide to use skill points on or whatever

Skill points in RPGs represent the areas in which our character is supposed to be training in. Putting a skill point in "Parry" means that our character practised in his Parrying abilities and that made him better in that technique.

Similarly, putting a skill point in "Eagle Vision" is something more than upgrading it. It means that our character spent some time practising that ability and thus, he became better at its use.

I don't know how other people perceive the concept of skill points, but that is how it was explained in a game magazine reviewing Star Wars Kinghts of The Old Republic 2, back in 2005.

dxsxhxcx
08-16-2014, 04:56 PM
Skill points in RPGs represent the areas in which our character is supposed to be training in. Putting a skill point in "Parry" means that our character practised in his Parrying abilities and that made him better in that technique.

Similarly, putting a skill point in "Eagle Vision" is something more than upgrading it. It means that our character spent some time practising that ability and thus, he became better at its use.

I don't know how other people perceive the concept of skill points, but that is how it was explained in a game magazine reviewing Star Wars Kinghts of The Old Republic 2, back in 2005.

I believe the problem is that the protagonist story already is set in stone, how is it possible for Arno to, let's say, reach "x" level in a certain skill before this happens in the story? It would look really stupid if at a certain part of the game the story show us that we can't do certain things even if at that point we already had maxed or reached a level in a skill that made that possible.


let's put things this way:

imagine if in AC2 we were able to do that movement Rosa taught us before we have met her in the game?

Sesheenku
08-16-2014, 05:29 PM
I believe the problem is that the protagonist story already is set in stone, how is it possible for Arno to, let's say, reach "x" level in a certain skill before this happens in the story? It would look really stupid if at a certain part of the game the story show us that we can't do certain things even if at that point we already had maxed or reached a level in a skill that made that possible.


let's put things this way:

imagine if in AC2 we were able to do that movement Rosa taught us before we have met her in the game?

Not applicable.

AC2 is a game without skills and thus they knew it was okay to show him using skills at specific points.

They should know better than to do that with Unity.

AherasSTRG
08-16-2014, 05:37 PM
Not applicable.

AC2 is a game without skills and thus they knew it was okay to show him using skills at specific points.

They should know better than to do that with Unity.

Exactly. Since there is no set progression path in Unity, what applies in the other games of the series won't apply here.

Jexx21
08-16-2014, 06:24 PM
Well it use to be focusing your senses, like Edward says seeing sounds etc.

The animus just gives the "player" a visualization. Eg, Edward did not see his enemies literally glow in Red. And at the same time, it is just a sense, which is why Eagle Vision can be "wrong" sometimes.

But with Unity, it seems like they've thrown it out the window. A lot of RPG elements in Unity now. I mean, UPGRADING eagle vision? What? That doesn't even make sense. Arnos ability if anything should progress naturally throughout the game, not for what we decide to use skill points on or whatever

It's no different from choosing which side mission to do first even if they're not in chronological order. You're just choosing what you want to learn first. You'll be able to get all of the skills by the end of the game if you do all the side content (I'm gleaning this info from what was said in the recent Initiates podcast)

HDinHB
08-16-2014, 08:29 PM
I believe the problem is that the protagonist story already is set in stone, how is it possible for Arno to, let's say, reach "x" level in a certain skill before this happens in the story? It would look really stupid if at a certain part of the game the story show us that we can't do certain things even if at that point we already had maxed or reached a level in a skill that made that possible.

Sesheenku is correct that the devs should be sharp enough to avoid that latter mistake.

As for Arno's story being set in stone vs. skill points, it will be interesting to see how they deal with it in game. My own theory is that Arno is Arno, and he has a certain set of skills at a certain date in history. But since each of us is now accessing the Animus, instead of Desmond of disembodied Abstergo employee, each of us brings our own set of natural and learned skills, talents, and aptitudes, and that affects how each of us interfaces with the Animus and Arno's story.

So, in past games, while the story is history ("set in stone"), what the Animus presents is critical parts of the story grounded in history (through genetic memory) with the missing details filled in by the Animus/subject. So we know Connor killed a target on the other side of a building. In your playthrough, maybe you ran around the right and hacked him with a tomahawk, while I sneaked around and sliced him with a sword, and Sesh scrambled over the roof and executed a sweet aerial assassination. Connor, historically, might have done any one of these things or something completely different. The Animus fills in the details leading up to the critical event.

Likewise, Arno had certain skills on a certain date. I'm sure he didn't look in his journal and say "Oh, I'm only 4/10 in combat, I better work on that," but he was aware of his strengths and weaknesses. Let's say, on this certain date in the game, Arno is perfectly balanced with 6/10 combat, stealth, and parkour. Now you, in the Animus, have more aptitude for combat than I do, but I pick up stealth skills more easily. You might have a 6 in combat, but a 4 each in stealth and parkour. I might have 6 in stealth, a 5 in parkour, and a 3 in combat. Neither of us would have a 7 in anything, since Arno historically did not. We could, at best, equal his skills on that day in history, but not exceed them in any area. Most likely, since we aren't living in the world 24/7, we'll be slightly behind where Arno actually was in at least some of the skills.

That's my rationalization for now.

sleeplust
08-19-2014, 01:43 PM
I don't know how to properly explain it, but...

It is a visualisation (the assassins did not perceive their targets as painted red), but in order for the assassin to actually feel and analyse his surroundings carefully, he needed to concentrate on the individuals around him. And, since you cannot focus and concentrate all the time, Eagle Vision is toggled on and off.

My opinion,the toggling of EV seems like an Animus program maneuver sequence for that visualization,just because the view of the EV master may be too far beyond the "lesser" peoples' comprehension.
In a word,the "toggling" button may be just designed for "us" to understand the function of Eagle Vision and I don't think that turning on the EV means controlling the character to "concentrate" on something is a good idea.

I don't like RPG elements added on to this action game,like upgrading,accumulating stats,or some other thing.
Here on,it really sounds like Shyaringan...
My opinion,the toggling of EV seems like an Animus maneuver sequence for that visualization,just because the view of the EV master may be too far beyond the "lesser" peoples' comprehension.However,concentration of the characters will be needed and acted,not in an "activating" way,but just concentrate,like scanning the paints in Brotherhood.


as long as they keep the ability to see through walls then no, IMO it should never become automatic (if that's what you're implying)..

IMO EV/S should work like in one of the situations we had in ACR where we had to find the Den's captains, we needed to search for (and "scan") them instead of simply see a glowing lamp walking around as soon as we activate EV..

Eh,partially right.I do mean that the EV should function more but not completely automatically.
Activate the Eagle Vision by pushing a button is just a assistant maneuver sequence for the players,or the Animus users.

It looks like in the "really world" of AC2,the players also use the Animus to experience what Desmond should have done.Notice that,in AC3,Desmond could cloak against the projectiles fired upon him,with a same protection animation triggered with the ring Connor found in 1700s.So we need to manually activate the EV to comprehend the function.


I believe the problem is that the protagonist story already is set in stone, how is it possible for Arno to, let's say, reach "x" level in a certain skill before this happens in the story? It would look really stupid if at a certain part of the game the story show us that we can't do certain things even if at that point we already had maxed or reached a level in a skill that made that possible.


let's put things this way:

imagine if in AC2 we were able to do that movement Rosa taught us before we have met her in the game?

I have thought about this and I finally get the "answer":the story of AC2 is not perfect as estimated,the Codex tells us the assassination methods and actions are "designed" or "invented" by Ataiir and Malik,which are indeed negated in the latter works.