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View Full Version : Subtle approach by social-interacting and intelligent crowd-using in AC-Unity



Al-Haytham
08-16-2014, 12:24 AM
Hey guys :)

first of all, I am a "Newbie“ here. So, if there is already a thread, where people discuss about Social-Stealth aspects, then just disregard my post. Secondly, I am from Germany, therefore my english skills are not that much good, but I’ll try to do my best to explain my concern as understandable as I can. So please, don't blame me for mistakes! :D And finally:
I already wrote an extensive article one week ago in the german homepage of the Ubisoft Forum, but unfortunately I just got only one answer till today. Someone made the proposal, that I should try the international (English) Forum, since it shows much more activities than the german one. Well I have not much time to consider and translate all points from my german article, thus I will sum up the most important ones.

Couple of weeks ago I started to play with Assassins Creed III. Yes, you’d think that’s kind of little bit too late, I totally agree with you. But since I heard the game was buggy in numerous ways and it doesn’t really contain conspiracy-feelings like in former Assassin’s Creed-expansions, it made me somehow skeptical. Nonetheless I finally came to the point, that I should give the game a real chance. Now, that I have finished with it I have to admit, that regardless of some annoying bugs, the game was all in all not that bad! I could now analyze every single aspect, but that would go beyond the scope of my major concern. So let’s get directly to the main point:

What I really love about the gameplay is, that in contrast to the Altair and Ezio-Saga you have more possibilities insofar the social-stealth and crowd-using is concerned, as you can see it for example here in the commented gameplay walkthrough from 2:20 to 2:40:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGcTtv1P-BA&list=PLp4lrezbJCqtXvxiVQFbqgSZKZNxDErT6&index=6

So now as we see, social-stealth doesn’t only mean to stay just there in the middle of the crowd and to do nothing. It also means that you can imitate the behavior of several groups of citizen. Unless I’m very much mistaken, there were 3 other alternative ways, where you can make use of this special ability…to my great delight:
For example, what was really amusing for me is the possibility to join some homeless beggars, by sitting among them on the ground and releasing yourself as a beggar, while your persecutors don’t notice you and just run on. :p
In some other places you are able to sit between 2 guys on a wooden box in order to create an outward impression, that you take a break.
Furthermore you can also impersonate yourself as an interested customer, as you examine and value the goods by the seller.

For me, these variable options were already overdue, considering the fact, that in former Assassin’s Creed Parts there were just 2 classic types (I will ignore any haystack) of keeping discretion with the help of people: by joining any group of minimum 2 guys, and just standing there and doing nothing; or sitting on the bench. After nearly 5 years I was getting bored, because it became more and more unconventional and it didn’t really go with the atmosphere of urban population. According to that, I think it stands to reason, that I was so fascinated, when Connor was able to make use of the possibilities described above, just to have a more realistic ambience and intensified Assassin’s-Creed-tension. (Even though the former appearance of Boston and New York honestly don’t really seem to be predestinated for a Assassin’s Creed-Game, which is full of conspiracies and corruption.)

I was more excited, when I saw a special Gameplay-Preview on Assassin’s Creed-Black Flag. Just take a look at that from 0:40 to 1:15:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzdarWf6orA

Edward Kenway is able to interact with people in a different manner, e.g. by talking to the woman when he sat next to her; or by squatting down and watching a card game between some players. At that time I really expected that you’ll be able to experience this kind of intelligent social interacting in numerous cases, at least when you’re going to absolve urban missions, both in Havanna aswell as in Kingston, so that as a result you aren’t bound to use again those classic methods, I've mentioned before.
Unfortunately a friend of mine told me, that this special demonstration of social interacting, as shown in the video above, is just available in a single sequence!
Though I’ll surely buy the game, this fact spoiled my mood to a great extent. I mean, using stealth and being undetected shouldn’t automatically call me for hiding myself always at the back of a house; behind a wall; inside the haystack or using other surrounding features for my benefit.
For me it’s also about acting and giving the impression, that I belong to some groups of people, e.g. by becoming:

1.) a beggar, sitting on the ground and begging for money;
2.) a worker, who is taking a break;
3.) a customer, who is looking for something;
4.) a citizen, who is reading newspaper;
5.) a gawk, who cheers for some players amidst a competition
6.) etc.

In terms of logical-(historical) aspects - and if you insist on an discrete and much more sophisticated approach- it should be a natural ability of an assassin to use several sections of the population to his/her own advantage by imitating them.

Now, I have seen some Gameplayvideos of the Next-Gen-Adventure “Unity” with Paris as its biggest location, which has been ever created by Ubisoft so far. Without any doubt it seems to have a great atmosphere! However, I haven't seen a single demonstration of Arnos abilities with regard to social-interacting and imitating the behavior of other citizen. I just can remember when Ubisoft confirmed, that crowd-using will play a major role. But what does “crowd-using” mean in that context? Is it like the other games before: Joining a public meeting and just standing there? Or is it an implication that the future Protagonist will be also capable of mimicking other people, like Connor did?

Since we know that Arno is – in the wording of Ubisoft –
"a new breed of Assassin with a wit as sharp as his blade. Brash and charismatic, he is stealthier, deadlier, and more ruthless than anyone before him"; and since we know that Paris is characterized by the greatest population density from all AC-Cities:

Does it not make sense at all, now to introduce those past-due alternatives of intelligent crowd-using, irrespective of whether there will be a new stealth-mode or not?

What's your point of view concerning this issue?

HDinHB
08-16-2014, 12:29 AM
Welcome! That's quite an intro post. :D I'll have to take some time reading and digest it for a while.

Al-Haytham
08-16-2014, 12:32 AM
Welcome! That's quite an intro post. :D I'll have to take some time reading and digest it for a while.

Thank you very very much, Mate!!! :)
Take as much time, as you need for it! :D

HDinHB
08-16-2014, 01:17 AM
I thought it was a very cool addition to AC3, although some thought it was a waste of time. It's just one of those little touches that makes the world feel more real and let's you appreciate the artistry involved in game making. I was disappointed it didn't make it to AC4--I think there is more in the video clip you referenced than in the actual game. I don't know if it's because the games were developed in parallel and it was left out, or if it was intentionally removed.

Since Rogue appears to be essentially a redux of AC4 gameplay-wise, I don't expect it to appear there either. Unity is a different story, and I haven't seen any evidence which way it will go. There is a video in this thread http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/909785-Assassin%E2%80%99s-Creed-Unity-GamesCom-2014-Commented-Solo-Demo that shows Arno crowd surfing, but he doesn't stand still long enough to see if he'll adopt the crowd behavior.

Al-Haytham
08-16-2014, 03:42 PM
I thought it was a very cool addition to AC3, although some thought it was a waste of time. It's just one of those little touches that makes the world feel more real and let's you appreciate the artistry involved in game making. I was disappointed it didn't make it to AC4--I think there is more in the video clip you referenced than in the actual game. I don't know if it's because the games were developed in parallel and it was left out, or if it was intentionally removed.

Since Rogue appears to be essentially a redux of AC4 gameplay-wise, I don't expect it to appear there either. Unity is a different story, and I haven't seen any evidence which way it will go. There is a video in this thread http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/909785-Assassin%E2%80%99s-Creed-Unity-GamesCom-2014-Commented-Solo-Demo that shows Arno crowd surfing, but he doesn't stand still long enough to see if he'll adopt the crowd behavior.

My thoughts exactly. As you said "it's just one of those little touches that makes the world feel more real"! Therefore and in my opinion these important elements should be established more and more because it would enrich the whole gameplay to a great extent.
I have a creeping feeling, that Ubisoft might not take this into consideration.
As I wrote above, they have been confirmed, that there will be massiv crowds, thus crowd-using is going to be more important, but is it just in terms of "crowd-surfing"?
That would be somehow monotonous and after 5 years it becomes stale.

MickyDaLips
08-16-2014, 03:50 PM
Wow what an excellent introductory post, welcome :)

I have to admit it's not something I've given much thought to, but yes it would absolutely be a welcome expansion of the 'blade in the crowd' ethos and feel incrediby immersive, has anything like this been mentioned for AC Unity?

Al-Haytham
08-16-2014, 04:32 PM
Wow what an excellent introductory post, welcome :)

I have to admit it's not something I've given much thought to, but yes it would absolutely be a welcome expansion of the 'blade in the crowd' ethos and feel incrediby immersive, has anything like this been mentioned for AC Unity?

Thank you very much, mate! :)
"Blade in the crowd"... wow first time, I heard it (pardon me, since we have other names for it here in Germany :D ) but that's a really good description!

I would really love to have those small features again, but till today i just have heard and seen, that there will be "crowd-using", and that's it. But for me it sounds to woolly.
WHICH kind of crowd-using? Again that basic-and classic crowd-surfing, which exists since AC 2 ? Or more than that?
I mean, all in all, wether you are crowd-surfing or imitating people behaviour, it amounts to the same thing. BUT mimicking other people makes it feel more realistic and emphasizes this "ruthless elegance"! :D

As i wrote in another thread:

It's often the little things that make a huge difference!