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Xyx0rz
08-15-2014, 04:30 PM
Garrison was initially heralded as "overpowered" and "better than Barracks", but was dismissed as "unplayable" rather quickly after the release of Griffin Bane (while we all know how Barracks turned out). However, lately I've seen it pop up again, though obviously in combination with Barracks.

I personally feel that you have to get kinda lucky. I would not run more than 2 of them (if any). I'm not sure against which decks they're good. Against rush they take a lot of setting up, and against control an 8/16/24 stack of Griffin Legionnaires still just gets Soulreavered. So that doesn't leave a lot of good match-ups.

So, what's the verdict? Is it "Barracks 5-8"? "Sekrit tech" in Cassandra? Still not worth it?

Stoneofhelp
08-15-2014, 08:46 PM
People who play more can comment better perhaps.

My impressions at the moment is that garrison is good, and that the haven stackable creatures are good and you want to run 3-4 garrison. BUT it is not working at the moment because of what it takes to set up the combo. Setting up combo cards like that which gives you a lot of board presence for little resource in the long run seems good, but to pull off combos you need to draw well, and you need to defend until you can set up your combos effectively. My impression is that we need for early defensive creatures, 1 and 2 drops, which can hold the fort while you play for tempo and board advantage with garrison later. At the moment it does not work so well.

Mushidoz
08-15-2014, 10:29 PM
Way I see this card is that when you run it you have to use your stackable creatures in a different way than you do usually. What I see usually with the legionnaires, for example, is people stacking them until they go to stack 4 (they do so progressively, when the stats are needed, or simply to provide a big fat wall). Garrison, if used that way, therefore has the potential of creating a 8 / 16 / 24 creature.. but that is not how I think the garrison should be played. Instead, that building should be used to create 2 big fat blocks of of 4 / 8 / 12 without having to stack all four copies of your legionnaire on the same stack.

That big fat 4 / 8 / 12 can still get soul reavered or bridged... but then you don't "care" as much as if you'd spent 4 legionnaires on it, and you can repeat the process with your remaining 2 legionnaires.

Is the card worth using though? It does require a lot of settng up.. especially if you plan on throwing a Ice Armour on that creature so that it becomes untargettable... but -perhaps- with the right set-up it will prove itself to be a fine card. Clearly not as powerful as barracks though (here read "overpowered barracks")

Mushidoz
08-15-2014, 10:34 PM
Also to add (I can't edit on this forum for some reason...), with a bunch of angels to revive stackable creatures, this could create even more of those big fat stacks.. Perhaps eventually an otk charity? lol..

Portios86
08-15-2014, 11:11 PM
Last days I have been testing Garrison almost exclusively, ignoring other cards that I wanted to test...

Best results have been with charity, who can one shot you with a stacked legionnaire (or destroy whatever you play on that row). But ignoring charity, talkinga bout garrison and stackables as they are in most decks:
Haven is supposed to be played with extra income, thatīs why we have collectors and treasurers. Kieran might be rushy but haven isnīt a rushy faction, so that extra income has to be used in combos, one of those combos is Garrison+stackables.

Stackables are our new t2 and t3 drops, the weakest point in haven faction, and played without garrison they are even worse than other cards we had, Imo.
However, with just a garrison, you have some options now. Spread the same creature in different stacks, for example, play garrison, next turn play legionnare on garrison, next turn MOVE the legionnare to block and deploy a 2/4/8 creature in the garrison for just 3 resourcess (can you see how strong is that?). But you just played 2 legionnaires, your next move could be the same, move the new empowered legionnaire and play another one on garrison, or you could also play a legionnaire on the stack and attack with 3-6-12 creature.
All this while you keep a lot of cards in your hand because you are drawing more legionnaires and crossbowmen.

Obviously, you can play around it, and unless you are playing benevolent angel or devout priest, your stacks are going to be targeted.
However, lets say you donīt play many copies of those cards or you would like to target your creatures with charity and you donīt play the angel.
Stacks are really strong against damage spells but weak against soulreaver, dark magic control decks are less and less popular but lets say you have to face cards like broken bridge, town portal and even soulreaver:

If the stack is returned to hand, you just play the remainning stackable on garrison and you get a 2/0/6 shoter at cost 2 or 2/4/8 melee at cost 3. If the creature is soulreavered, lets hope you didnīt play all the stacks together. Thatīs exactly why garrison is better than most people think.

Finally, about the card beeing situational and so on...I have been testing about it, here are some suggestions and feedback:
-If you play angel of mercy you have a chance to recover an stackable from graveyard to make your stacks even stronger or to play them again on garrison. If all copies were dead, now at least you can play 2/4/8 or 2/0/6 shoter at a ridiculous cost.

-You can play falcon shoter, yes, what you hear. Itīs not emperorīs wall but you could play the falcons to make garrison less situational. A 2/3/5 preemptive strike shoter at cost 3 isnīt bad, neither great, itīs an option, it works very well with charity.

-Day of fortune and rising moon. You can play these events just like you did with morgan and heroic destiny, itīs possible to discard garrisons in the mid/late game if you wont need the card, itīs easier and more effective than it seems if you are playing accelerators like treasurers and collectors.

-Sanctified walls. Yes, sanctified walls...if you arenīt playing charity you could try with sanctified walls, even playing charity you can use it though I donīt recommend it. With sanctified walls your barrack stacks canīt be targeted and your megafatties on garrisons canīt be targeted. If you are also playing benevolents and devout priest...almost nothing can be target.

So, Iīm not saying I like what they did, not saying garrison is super awesome or haven is the new inferno/stronghold, but garrison is a very good card which is worth playing in many decks. Stackables are also very good if you play garrisons. Indeed, haven stackables are quite mediocres unless you play garrison Imo.

Portios86
08-15-2014, 11:13 PM
Also to add (I can't edit on this forum for some reason...), with a bunch of angels to revive stackable creatures, this could create even more of those big fat stacks.. Perhaps eventually an otk charity? lol..

Agree, read my post. Yes, I have done otk charity in some games, and when not otk, 8-10 damage easily with legionnaire.

Stoneofhelp
08-16-2014, 06:43 AM
I agree with what others have said and it matches my experience.

At the moment it feel like making a garrison deck work well you need all your stacking creatures, some reliable 2 and 3 drops to play instead of the stackables if they are not convenient to play, you will need your angels of mercy to take more advantage of how the stacking mechanic works, and Treasurers for resource advantage. This makes the deck uber defensive and IDK it somehow feels clunky. The thing is you are not playing angel of mercy or treasurer for their board presence in terms of stats and combat abilities, whereas other factions have 4 drops with a lot more immediate threat on the board. The combos thus become very tricky for Haven to be able to match what other factions get without combos.


In my experience playing stacks too early can put you at a tempo disadvantage in a number of matchups. I think at fisrts people did not how how to deal with the stacks but now I am finding they are getting removed easier. Also when playing Cassandra with reserves you want to make sure you can actually play the card on your stacks pushing stacks towards mid-late game plays. Hence I do not see them as reliable 2 & 3 drops (actually I would never play a stackable in Turn 2) for early game presence

We need other 2 drops we should have to play so we don't waste our stacks early (loyal griffin aint great, you end up with 2 and 3 drops who are not immune to retaliation :/) Our 3 drops seem ok, but a better shooter at 2 or 3 resource would be very welcome.

We need more reliable ways of getting an income advantage I think

And converting retaliation into damage via charity seems ok, but playing benevolent angels seems better and shuts down your own ability to combo.Also I agree that the only reason to build your stack to 4 on a garrison would be to deal 8 damage with charity, but even that is tricky (people can kindof guess at that strategy and counter it I think).

superktro
09-04-2014, 07:24 PM
trust me i tried it a lot and garrison can only be playable if it was a 1 cost building and there were more of stackable units for haven. It is predictable, depends on draw and can be easily be countered by an opponent. so its mostly a garbage in my deck