PDA

View Full Version : Disguise skill



Pages : [1] 2

dimbismp
08-14-2014, 06:12 PM
What do you think about it?How will it work?
It's ecen at the weapon wheel

CptSkyBear
08-18-2014, 10:52 PM
Hey Dimbismp,

I was able to pull up an article here: http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/disguise-yourself-as-a-woman-in-assassins-creed-unity/ from a Zoe Hawkins who was able to get some hands-on experience with the game during Gamescom.

Perhaps this can get some conversation going. :]

TheIronLotus420
08-18-2014, 11:46 PM
inb4thenwhynofemaleassassin

GoldenBoy9999
08-19-2014, 12:28 AM
Well I think it may be like Morph from AC MP if you've ever played that. I'd imagine you would need to be in close proximity to the character you want to copy and when you hit a button you take their skin. This could be helpful as with a guard outfit you could break into a guarded place.

Sesheenku
08-19-2014, 12:46 AM
Well I think it may be like Morph from AC MP if you've ever played that. I'd imagine you would need to be in close proximity to the character you want to copy and when you hit a button you take their skin. This could be helpful as with a guard outfit you could break into a guarded place.

So... like.... Assassins Creed : Silence of the Lambs?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTs_TZFjbJ8

GoldenBoy9999
08-19-2014, 12:50 AM
Lol, I think most people know what I mean, but to clarify I meant to make a copy of them ( with the animus).

Sesheenku
08-19-2014, 12:51 AM
Lol, I think most people know what I mean, but to clarify I meant to make a copy of them ( with the animus).

Dunun!!! Dunun!!!! Dunun!!! Dunun!!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOhooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooOOOO ooooo

Would you bang me ; )? I'd bang me, I'd bang me so hard!

jeordievera
08-19-2014, 08:44 AM
Oh so you can play as a female character after all! :p

Gin0r
08-19-2014, 01:50 PM
Well I think it may be like Morph from AC MP if you've ever played that. I'd imagine you would need to be in close proximity to the character you want to copy and when you hit a button you take their skin. This could be helpful as with a guard outfit you could break into a guarded place.

I hope not... I could accept breaks from realism in the multiplayer but such Animus trickery in SP? Please no...

Dome500
08-19-2014, 04:50 PM
I hope not... I could accept breaks from realism in the multiplayer but such Animus trickery in SP? Please no...

This.

JustPlainQuirky
08-19-2014, 04:54 PM
What the hell??

Why can Arno transform???

That's stupid. That's so so stupid.

If he actually changed fast, I'd accept that.

But TRANSFORMING into an NPC?

What the hell

christ

no

stahp

ubi

no

stahp

Arno couldn't do that.

stop breaking the immersion

jeordievera
08-19-2014, 06:23 PM
@May
You said it for me, I feel the same way, this is just really REALLY weird 'skill'
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131126084708/walkingdead/images/0/0f/Post-15337-Christian-Bale-confused-gif-Hje6.gif

JustPlainQuirky
08-19-2014, 06:24 PM
Next up!

Arno has the ability to fly! Why? Because the animus could do that! Who cares if Arno couldn't have possibly used that during the time period and it breaks immersion.

It's the ANIMUS!

GunnerGalactico
08-19-2014, 06:28 PM
Wonder if Lafayette will join Arno as well :p

jeordievera
08-19-2014, 06:40 PM
Wonder if Lafayette will join Arno as well :p
He will be his tutor!
Also Arno should use the disguise skill to turn into a haystack or something very practical!

GunnerGalactico
08-19-2014, 06:46 PM
He will be his tutor!
Also Arno should use the disguise skill to turn into a haystack or something very practical!

Lol, I'd really like to see that. I also think it will be awesome if he could disguise himself as an executioner. :p

CSKarasu
08-19-2014, 06:48 PM
Can't it just work like older games? Incapacitate an NPC and then loot the uniform/costume?

GoldenBoy9999
08-19-2014, 11:45 PM
^ Yeah I'd rather have that but I just wonder how you would disguise as woman. A mask or something? Maybe hats that cover the face. I don't think you could trick someone into thinking you're a woman whenever your manly face is in plain sight.

EmbodyingSeven5
08-20-2014, 12:17 AM
^ Yeah I'd rather have that but I just wonder how you would disguise as woman. A mask or something? Maybe hats that cover the face. I don't think you could trick someone into thinking you're a woman whenever your manly face is in plain sight.

actually actors back then were mostly men and the often dressed as women to play a female part. so in short, they will make that an excuse for arno to explain why the guards don't give a crap when they see a man cross-dressing

dimbismp
08-25-2014, 05:07 PM
Unfortunately,some leaked gameplay confirms our fearsArno magically transforms into another NPC,stays like that for like 5 seconds and then becomeshimself again.
I hope i am wrong,but his feature really dissapoints me.It really breaks the immersion,as Mayrice stated above.I was hoping that it would be like the way Edward disguised himself as the Italian diplomat...

JustPlainQuirky
08-25-2014, 05:09 PM
^Discussion of leaks isn't allowed, but I'm glad this thread was bumped.

Arno doing stuff he couldn't do back in the time period is downright stupid IMO.

dimbismp
08-25-2014, 05:16 PM
I am going to avoid using this skill if it is going to work like this

Fatal-Feit
08-25-2014, 05:18 PM
Can't it just work like older games? Incapacitate an NPC and then loot the uniform/costume?

This. 100%

CoachAssassin
08-25-2014, 05:38 PM
Incapacitate them and have a button like looting, while not being interrupted by other guards or whatever. Making sure there you have to do it in a discrete place.


Realism, sons, it's still there.

Crouching.Tiger
08-25-2014, 05:41 PM
^ Yeah I'd rather have that but I just wonder how you would disguise as woman. A mask or something? Maybe hats that cover the face. I don't think you could trick someone into thinking you're a woman whenever your manly face is in plain sight.

Now, I haven't played Hitman since the first (or was it the second?) game, but if a 2 meter tall, bald white dude with a barcode on the back of his head could trick people into believing he was, say, a Chinese waiter, or Solid Snake can become invisible by hiding inside a cardboard box (as long as people don't see it move), I don't think it's that much of a stretch of the imagination to imagine Arno being able to pass for a woman. Especially if he puts on a corset and a ton of 18th century style powder and make-up, and maybe hold a fan seductively in front of his face :p

CoachAssassin
08-25-2014, 05:42 PM
In before arno cross dressing fan fic while being intimate with Elise.


Oh god make this happen.

rob.davies2014
08-25-2014, 06:08 PM
Oh dear. This is the first next gen game, you'd think the immersion would be amazing!

But instead we have out-of-place accents and the ability to magically turn into somebody else!

The Aveline method would have been better than this!

Oh Ubisoft. What are you thinking?!

So much is good about this game, but they've managed to balance that with some really poor decisions.

jeordievera
08-25-2014, 06:18 PM
I really dislike this as I stated before. Its so SO stupid, like how can he turn into someone else (ok the Animus)? I won't be using this skill its just wrong in any possible way :rolleyes:

Sushiglutton
08-25-2014, 06:36 PM
Ha, I actually quite like it.

First off I like that there are disguises in the game. In some situations disguises make a lot of sense. For example when infiltrating a party etc. They can also design it a bit like Hitman where some special disguises may give you access to guarded areas and it's your job to find that disguise. This will give plenty of options for how to complete missions. What I'm trying to say in this paragraph is that having disguises is better than not having them.

Now the controversial point is that you "magically" (guess there's some Animus explanation) transform into an NPC. I can understand why people find this immersion breaking. I think the main reason they went this route is because of co-op. Waiting while a friend stalk, take down and hide a body would maybe require a bit too much patience. Just copy an NPC next to you with the tap of a button will make the skill a lot more useful ofc. I guess I would have prefered the more advanced version, but like I said I can see why they did this because of co-op.

And like I said having disguises is better than not having them. So overall I'm postitive about this.

jayjay275
08-25-2014, 06:51 PM
Someone get Mr_Shade on this topic and tell him that this is an abomination. It is no skill for an assassin to transform into a different person, merely animus trickery. If this is an option, I know for sure I will not use it. It's immersion breaking and idiotic.

dimbismp
08-25-2014, 07:03 PM
Yes, someone should tell Mr_Shade.We should hear his opinion

jeordievera
08-25-2014, 07:06 PM
Yes, someone should tell Mr_Shade.We should hear his opinion
You could make the thread into a poll option. :rolleyes:

JustPlainQuirky
08-25-2014, 07:09 PM
A poll thread similar to the #RidofTheCircle poll thread would be nice.

Though we never did find out whether the devs took that complaint into consideration and indeed implement an option to rid of the ring.

dimbismp
08-25-2014, 07:22 PM
Made poll,but this is too important to change 2 months before release...

Helforsite
08-25-2014, 08:57 PM
Well, you could just not use it... Nah, what am I talking about? Let's continue criticising how immersion-breaking a skill is that is completely optional -.-
Seriously guys, if you don't like it, don't use it! As simple as that!

Fatal-Feit
08-25-2014, 09:03 PM
The ''don't like it, don't use it'' argument is a very weak one.

Sushiglutton
08-25-2014, 09:51 PM
Me against the world :cool:!

JustPlainQuirky
08-25-2014, 09:53 PM
Heresy! Burn the witch!

Sushiglutton
08-25-2014, 09:54 PM
Heresy! Burn the witch!

You can't burn me! Sushi is a dish best served raw!

RinoTheBouncer
08-25-2014, 10:30 PM
I hope not... I could accept breaks from realism in the multiplayer but such Animus trickery in SP? Please no...
I agree with you. In MP, it is acceptable since we do lots of Animus hacks, but here? no way. What’s next? Arno has wings?

Fatal-Feit
08-25-2014, 10:32 PM
Connor had wings, so...

RinoTheBouncer
08-25-2014, 10:55 PM
Drop the feature, Ubisoft. Let the abilities in the game be something story-driven not driven by Animus cheats.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/aaf5a91f0dbdb42c28cb1b97023117e4/tumblr_n6gzctfjYV1rsrbdko1_r2_500.gif


Connor had wings, so...
Well I saw this coming, but no. He did had them for real in that what-if story but not as an Animus hack.

shobhit7777777
08-26-2014, 06:47 AM
I ****ing hate it.

Love the idea...hate the execution. Yet another example of Ubisoft's "optimization" of player experience. Could've added another tactical layer where you need to steal a disguise beforehand and be careful about how you use it.

jeordievera
08-26-2014, 08:09 AM
Connor had wings, so...

Well I saw this coming, but no. He did had them for real in that what-if story but not as an Animus hack.
Now Ubisoft is like "damn, we really like our new Arno with wings" :rolleyes:

Farlander1991
08-26-2014, 08:13 AM
I don't hate the way disguise works per se, but I much prefer the suspension of disbelief of having a hooded person everywhere rather than an animus hack/shortcut.

Matt.mc
08-26-2014, 09:31 AM
Just..."saw" how it works...gosh that does not look good. I'm not gonna use it but I'm still gonna voice my opinion.

rob.davies2014
08-26-2014, 11:28 AM
If Ubi don't want to add a whole new animation of Arno putting clothes on, then make it so that it's only usable from haystacks/cupboards etc so that we can imagine he's putting a disguise on and we don't have to witness this horrible, immersion-breaking, unrealistic rubbish.

Sushiglutton
08-26-2014, 11:48 AM
I don't hate the way disguise works per se, but I much prefer the suspension of disbelief of having a hooded person everywhere rather than an animus hack/shortcut.


I disagree :). I can accept a hooded person walking the streets, or mingling with a crowd. But in some settings it's just too silly. Let's take for example the art exhibition missions in Brotherhood. It was silly as hell to watch Ezio running around there armed to his teeth. An instant clothe change at the beginning would have been way less immersion breaking imo.

This is in fact one of my arguments for why this is ok. The immersion breaking switch is so short relative to the rest of the mission(s). It's like when you go to the inventory in a game and switch your sword to an axe. The axe magically appears on your character. It's silly, but it's just a fraction of a second, then you are off fighting again. This is standard video game stuff.

In Hitman (well in Absolution at least) the characters leave a little white clothe bag on the gorund. You also instantly switch clothes with them. I think the difference is not that big. Surely noone wants a full animation of Arno switching clothes (ok maybe tumblr people lol).

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 12:03 PM
I feel its important to point out that their are alternative powers to use as opposed to the disguise if you feel it to immersion ruining so chill if you have to use it i imagine it'll be once in a tutorial

Farlander1991
08-26-2014, 12:08 PM
But in some settings it's just too silly. Let's take for example the art exhibition missions in Brotherhood. It was silly as hell to watch Ezio running around there armed to his teeth.

I think the problem here is more 'armed to his teeth' rather than 'hooded person'.

I always considered the amount of weapons/armor we have should be tied to social stealth. The more we have equipped, the more we are capable of, but also the more guards are suspicious of us. Trade off between capabilities/protection and social awareness. I'm not yet sure what ACU with its customization will offer to us, I don't think it will have such a system exactly, but hopefully the outfit customization will offer something similar.

My latest memories of ACB are about playing with as less armors and weapons as possible, and Ezio looked just fine in the art exhibition to me.

(on a side note, the arbitrary 'change clothes' missions were the most annoying to me, and I'm glad that the art exhibition mission didn't have those).


In Hitman (well in Absolution at least) the characters leave a little white clothe bag on the gorund. You also instantly switch clothes with them.

The problem is not in the instant switch, the problem is in the logistics.

Hitman has very clear logistics. There's a person with clothes, we take clothes from them.

What are the logistics of the ACU system? We blend with a group of people and start looking like them. Why, how? I know it's an Animus simulation, but there's still logistics in AC games, with how and when we get weapons, armor, etc. Even in RPGs with inventory and instant switch - the item is still somewhere. But here it just appears out of thin air, and I honestly think this kind of thing is fine for a competitive multiplayer game, but in a single-player experience, it's just somewhat off-putting.

While we're at it, I'm against any complex clothes-changing system in AC at all. I think the core of AC social stealth is not about that, we shouldn't really have to worry about it. Something more general like the persona system in AC:L I'm fine with (where personas also offer different gameplay options), but open-world social stealth is not suited for a Hitman-style intricate clothes system, IMO.

shobhit7777777
08-26-2014, 12:37 PM
The problem is not in the instant switch, the problem is in the logistics.

Hitman has very clear logistics. There's a person with clothes, we take clothes from them.

What are the logistics of the ACU system? We blend with a group of people and start looking like them. Why, how? I know it's an Animus simulation, but there's still logistics in AC games, with how and when we get weapons, armor, etc. Even in RPGs with inventory and instant switch - the item is still somewhere. But here it just appears out of thin air, and I honestly think this kind of thing is fine for a competitive multiplayer game, but in a single-player experience, it's just somewhat off-putting.

While we're at it, I'm against any complex clothes-changing system in AC at all. I think the core of AC social stealth is not about that, we shouldn't really have to worry about it. Something more general like the persona system in AC:L I'm fine with (where personas also offer different gameplay options), but open-world social stealth is not suited for a Hitman-style intricate clothes system, IMO.

Agreed completely

The disguise system need not be complex. It can be elegantly handled.

This is how it should work IMO

1. You can only disguise as a faction member or as soldier - no NPCs
2. You'll need to KO your target
3. A 'Loot' like option should pop-up and let you take their clothes - doing so in public should arouse suspicion and attention based on the crowd's mood/allegiance
4. Hiding the naked guy is upto the player
5. Everytime you kill someone while disguised - it degrades your stolen attire....basically you're getting blood all over it. The more violent the kill (say you get in combat) the more your uniform degrades
6. You can stealth kill upto...IDK...4-5 times before you need to change clothes

That^ is a lot of work....but yeah...if they want to do disguises...do it proper.

That said....disguises aren't a central mechanic and neither are they absolutely key to AC gameplay....I'll just choose to ignore it during my playthrough.

Fatal-Feit
08-26-2014, 12:49 PM
1. You can only disguise as a faction member or as soldier - no NPCs
2. You'll need to KO your target
3. A 'Loot' like option should pop-up and let you take their clothes - doing so in public should arouse suspicion and attention based on the crowd's mood/allegiance
4. Hiding the naked guy is upto the player


This, I want.

aL_____eX
08-26-2014, 01:00 PM
@shobhit: I like your idea, would definitely improve the immersion. Another thing I'd like to have would be to finally add some realistic stealing animations.

GoldenBoy9999
08-26-2014, 01:48 PM
1. You can only disguise as a faction member or as soldier - no NPCs
2. You'll need to KO your target
3. A 'Loot' like option should pop-up and let you take their clothes - doing so in public should arouse suspicion and attention based on the crowd's mood/allegiance
4. Hiding the naked guy is upto the player
5. Everytime you kill someone while disguised - it degrades your stolen attire....basically you're getting blood all over it. The more violent the kill (say you get in combat) the more your uniform degrades
6. You can stealth kill upto...IDK...4-5 times before you need to change clothes



This is a good idea. I like it :D

rob.davies2014
08-26-2014, 02:04 PM
The disguise system need not be complex. It can be elegantly handled.

This is how it should work IMO

1. You can only disguise as a faction member or as soldier - no NPCs
2. You'll need to KO your target
3. A 'Loot' like option should pop-up and let you take their clothes - doing so in public should arouse suspicion and attention based on the crowd's mood/allegiance
4. Hiding the naked guy is upto the player
5. Everytime you kill someone while disguised - it degrades your stolen attire....basically you're getting blood all over it. The more violent the kill (say you get in combat) the more your uniform degrades
6. You can stealth kill upto...IDK...4-5 times before you need to change clothes

That^ is a lot of work....but yeah...if they want to do disguises...do it proper.



That is how it should be done.

Sushiglutton
08-26-2014, 02:27 PM
First off, like I said in my initial post, I would have prefered a more complex system (along the lines Shobbit suggests). What I am saying though is that this system is better than not having disguises at all, because it adds mission variety and in som instances increases immersion (again compared to not having the option at all).



I think the problem here is more 'armed to his teeth' rather than 'hooded person'.

I always considered the amount of weapons/armor we have should be tied to social stealth. The more we have equipped, the more we are capable of, but also the more guards are suspicious of us. Trade off between capabilities/protection and social awareness. I'm not yet sure what ACU with its customization will offer to us, I don't think it will have such a system exactly, but hopefully the outfit customization will offer something similar.

I agree with that the weapons is the bigger issue here. Letting the player customize this is not without problems though. First off you need to tell the player in advance what the mission will be like so he can make an informed decision. Secondly it makes it harder to design mixed missions. By that I mean for example something like sneaking into Versaille using traditional rooftop type stealth and then, once inside, start blending with the crowd.



The problem is not in the instant switch, the problem is in the logistics.

Hitman has very clear logistics. There's a person with clothes, we take clothes from them.

What are the logistics of the ACU system? We blend with a group of people and start looking like them. Why, how? I know it's an Animus simulation, but there's still logistics in AC games, with how and when we get weapons, armor, etc. Even in RPGs with inventory and instant switch - the item is still somewhere. But here it just appears out of thin air (...)

First off can we agree that it's impossible to make a disguise system realistic without sacrificing too much in terms of flow? So some comprises need to be made. Ubi chose an extreme approach. I agree that it's clearly unrealistic. To me it's not that bad though. A life of gaming has made me a bit immune to stuff like this lol.

In an RPG it's not uncommon to have ten different swords/shields etc. There's no explanation for this obv.



(...)and I honestly think this kind of thing is fine for a competitive multiplayer game, but in a single-player experience, it's just somewhat off-putting.

I def think co-op is the main reason the chose to design disguises this way. Hitman style is just too complex and requires too many steps for people patiently waiting while their friend is doing it.



That said....disguises aren't a central mechanic and neither are they absolutely key to AC gameplay....I'll just choose to ignore it during my playthrough.

I had a vivid dream about Arno running around in the Versaille area. In that dream it was very clear that disguise is a skill. You will be able to choose different ones. That said, because Unity has an increased emphasis on indoor stealth I think disguises make much more sense in this game than the previous ones. The hood is more of an outdoor/parkour thing. Walking the halls of Versaille it would make way less sense than in the dirty streets of Boston.

Farlander1991
08-26-2014, 02:47 PM
First off you need to tell the player in advance what the mission will be like so he can make an informed decision. Secondly it makes it harder to design mixed missions. By that I mean for example something like sneaking into Versaille using traditional rooftop type stealth and then, once inside, start blending with the crowd.

No you don't, actually :p there are a bunch of solutions to the conundrum you're mentioning. One of them would be something like bomb stashes in ACR - only these would be Assassin stashes where he can re-equip and leave something out/take something back when needed. So in essence, the player only needs to know his current goal (as he, well, pretty much always does when he gets from any cutscene to gameplay) and he's golden. Heck, one could add an additional tactical/investigative layer by making so some stashes are unlocked with side objectives or something. (the stashes, btw to keep things clear, would have shared inventory). Just one of possible solutions, that allows to quickly change your style of play depending on circumstances, and does not require full pre-meditation and full information.


First off can we agree that it's impossible to make a disguise system realistic without sacrificing too much in terms of flow?

Yes, and as I said, the instant clothing switch in and on its own was never a problem to me.


In an RPG it's not uncommon to have ten different swords/shields etc. There's no explanation for this obv.

It's in your 'backpack/inventory', which in most RPGs is limited. So they are somewhere :p Yes, if we get into realistic details, we'd need mules or something, but once again, I'm arguing about the logistics, not the somewhat mechanical/gamey representation of them. In RPGs you don't get your equipment out of thin air.


I def think co-op is the main reason the chose to design disguises this way. Hitman style is just too complex and requires too many steps for people patiently waiting while their friend is doing it.

We're talking game design, the choice is broader than 'Hitman style' or 'copy of multiplayer skill'. There are ways to do this while keeping both the game flow and in-universe logistics intact.

And again, I'm not saying that Ubi's decision is bad. I expect they've tried a lot of different things, and I'm pretty sure it will work from gameplay perspective. But I really disagree with their choice from an overall aesthetic principle, as in a game series where a certain basic amount of logistics was always present in the single-player campaign, and judging by things will be present in ACU as well, we suddenly get a skill that simply ignores all of that.

GreySkellig
08-26-2014, 03:03 PM
1. You can only disguise as a faction member or as soldier - no NPCs
2. You'll need to KO your target
3. A 'Loot' like option should pop-up and let you take their clothes - doing so in public should arouse suspicion and attention based on the crowd's mood/allegiance
4. Hiding the naked guy is upto the player
5. Everytime you kill someone while disguised - it degrades your stolen attire....basically you're getting blood all over it. The more violent the kill (say you get in combat) the more your uniform degrades
6. You can stealth kill upto...IDK...4-5 times before you need to change clothes

I, too, support Shobhit's suggestion. This is a "disguise" skill that would really add to the excitement of planning and executing an assassination. Simply morphing into a completely different person for a few moments makes no sense in the context of the game's premise.

Sushiglutton
08-26-2014, 03:08 PM
No you don't, actually :p there are a bunch of solutions to the conundrum you're mentioning. One of them would be something like bomb stashes in ACR - only these would be Assassin stashes where he can re-equip and leave something out/take something back when needed. So in essence, the player only needs to know his current goal (as he, well, pretty much always does when he gets from any cutscene to gameplay) and he's golden. Heck, one could add an additional tactical/investigative layer by making so some stashes are unlocked with side objectives or something. (the stashes, btw to keep things clear, would have shared inventory). Just one of possible solutions, that allows to quickly change your style of play depending on circumstances, and does not require full pre-meditation and full information.

Not a fan of this. I disliked the bomb-benches in AC:R a ton, I thought they tainted the world. I don't like it in Splinter Cell either. Doesn't make sense that someone has infiltrated these areas in advance just to leave a ton of gear for you to choose from. That's more problematic for me than being able to choose stuff from the inventory on the fly.

It's not easy to come up with a solution imo. They all have some strentgh and some weaknesses. It's a balancing act between realism, simplicity, aesthetics and so on.



We're talking game design, the choice is broader than 'Hitman style' or 'copy of multiplayer skill'. There are ways to do this while keeping both the game flow and in-universe logistics intact.

I don't understand how. I mean if you wanna do this realistcially you have to include several steps. The player needs to find someone wearing the costume he wants. He needs to isolate this character. He needs to knock him out. He then needs to take the costume and preferably hide the body. I don't see how you can escape this, unless you want to conveniently leave disguises in the enviroment, which is kind of meh imo.



And again, I'm not saying that Ubi's decision is bad. I expect they've tried a lot of different things, and I'm pretty sure it will work from gameplay perspective. But I really disagree with their choice from an overall aesthetic principle, as in a game series where a certain basic amount of logistics was always present in the single-player campaign, and judging by things will be present in ACU as well, we suddenly get a skill that simply ignores all of that.

I agree with you that this is somewhat problematic in the sense that they are bringing the animus fluff into the core historical gameplay in a way they haven't really done before. If we are reliving these memories the way Arno did, it makes no sense we can suddenly do transofrmation hacks. Perhaps they will set this up by introducing some fundamental changes to the way Helix functions?


As a side note we don't know all the rules for the disguise skill yet (at least I don't). For example what happens if you transform in front of guards? Is there a timer, or what determines when you return to Arno? What actions are you allowed to perform while disguised? Exactly what benfits do you get (access to more areas, being able to walk in restricted areas? Talking to key characters for clues?)? Does the disguise you choose matter or are they all pretty much equivalent?

RinoTheBouncer
08-26-2014, 03:13 PM
I’m starting to feel like the Animus is a time travel device rather than a genetic memory simulator. It’s like they’re going back in time and using “Animus Hacks” to make things that could not have possibly happened the way they did. From how illogical many optional objectives of past games were to those stuff now, I feel like they’re turning it to a basic game rather than going by the logic of the Animus that they created before.

pacmanate
08-26-2014, 03:17 PM
I’m starting to feel like the Animus is a time travel device rather than a genetic memory simulator. It’s like they’re going back in time and using “Animus Hacks” to make things that could not have possibly happened the way they did. From how illogical many optional objectives of past games were to those stuff now, I feel like they’re turning it to a basic game rather than going by the logic of the Animus that they created before.

Did you get an icebucketchallenge?

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 06:11 PM
if the disguise skill was an ability of a PoE that Arno had at the time or a power granted by juno/jupiter/minerva or something, I'd understand but...

I'm still peeved about this.

the game better have a damn good explanation. I don't want any of that "animus ability" BS. Otherwise I should be able to use machine guns and fly around paris.

jeordievera
08-26-2014, 06:17 PM
if the disguise skill was an ability of a PoE that Arno had at the time or a power granted by juno/jupiter/minerva or something, I'd understand but...

I'm still peeved about this.

the game better have a damn good explanation. I don't want any of that "animus ability" BS. Otherwise I should be able to use machine guns and fly around paris.
I don't care about the Animus and its ability to do such things like change you into someone else. I hate it more than I hate raisins!
Unless it woud give me a flying unicorn..that would be amazing :cool:

aL_____eX
08-26-2014, 06:18 PM
Exactly, excusing everything with the use of the Animus should have an end soon. If the Disguise skill is important, I think they should have used the system in Liberation. (Okay, do I really want something from Liberation in Unity?! :eek:)

Fatal-Feit
08-26-2014, 06:24 PM
The disguise ability is just so cheap and ugly. (don't ya'll dare) I mean, knocking out an NPC or guard first AND THEN using the animus effect to time-skip/morph us would be better.

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:24 PM
OPTIONAL SKILL WITH ALTERNATIVES IS OPTIONAL
Also really girls and guys this is the idea put forth by shobbit is whilst good not the point of a active skill (and would have to instead be a major change in the pace of the stealth making it slower and more hitmanlike. wether that is a bad thing is a seperate discussion entirely) like this skill is and about it wont change it so show your dislike for it the way i will by not using it so Ubi can see statistaclly that it isnt being used
(hell theres going to be other skills to use anyway so dont get so bogged down by one) (have a writing dissabillty hence the bad grammar and spellings)(and love of brackets!)

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 06:26 PM
optional or not it's still immersion breaking as hell and makes no sense in-context of the time period.

Arno didnt have that ability when HE took down templars.

Why should WE be able to have them?

What's stopping us from using an AK47 and a giant tank in missions?

Clearly the animus doesn't care.

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:30 PM
dont use it then and use one of the less immersion breaking ones like i shall (gosh dang this fandom sometimes makes me chuckle)

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 06:32 PM
It's not just about gameplay though.

It literally breaks logic.

The fact that it's an option at all makes no sense whatsoever.

CoachAssassin
08-26-2014, 06:35 PM
dont use it then and use one of the less immersion breaking ones like i shall (gosh dang this fandom sometimes makes me chuckle)


What you are saying is ********. It's like saying AC1 could have easily had guns, who cares if it isn't historically accurate, don't use it then.


There is no logical reason for the animus to give us as gamers that ability. Our MD protagonist is simpely watching Arnos adventure through Arnos life, making it feel like he is doing it. You would edit what actually happens which seems dumb.

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:37 PM
we are in a machine that lets us relive memories of ancestors. need be view it as a cheat like in the other games like the unicorn or the skeletons and leave it alone

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 06:38 PM
Yes and those cheats were either unlocked after sequences were already completed or had no affect on gameplay.

Using animus hacks/cheats to accomplish something Arno accomplished without hacks/cheats is illogical.

aL_____eX
08-26-2014, 06:38 PM
What you are saying is ********. It's like saying AC1 could have easily had guns, who cares if it isn't historically accurate, don't use it then.


There is no logical reason for the animus to give us as gamers that ability. Our MD protagonist is simpely watching Arnos adventure through Arnos life, making it feel like he is doing it. You would edit what actually happens which seems dumb.
Unfortunately that's the whole concept how the Animus works. They always said it adjusts the game world for the player/Desmond. So, you never see the story through our protagonist's life, but you play his life with some hints and assistances, like lower buildings or easier parkour opportunities.

I hate that.

killzab
08-26-2014, 06:38 PM
if the disguise skill was an ability of a PoE that Arno had at the time or a power granted by juno/jupiter/minerva or something, I'd understand but...

I'm still peeved about this.

the game better have a damn good explanation. I don't want any of that "animus ability" BS. Otherwise I should be able to use machine guns and fly around paris.

i agree ! Exactly my thoughts

CoachAssassin
08-26-2014, 06:42 PM
Unfortunately that's the whole concept how the Animus works. They always said it adjusts the game world for the player/Desmond. So, you never see the story through our protagonist's life, but you play his life with some hints and assistances, like lower buildings or easier parkour opportunities.

I hate that.

Yeah but THEY would edit it for you. For instance, this would not be the case in Edwards story, as you are analyzing his raw data to do exactly that. The same was done with Ezio through subject 16 first, and Connor was also raw data. Nothing in those were made easy by the animus iirc. I thought we were analyzing Arnos footage because the Assassins asked us. I could be wrong though.

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:42 PM
ok your all turning this into a big deal. im done i tried reason i dont care anymore but just tell me. Why is it so hard to accept animus magic and not touch the blasted thing. i persoanlly dislike it as well i just dont see a optional power that i never have to use as a big deal

CoachAssassin
08-26-2014, 06:44 PM
ok your all turning this into a big deal. im done i tried reason i dont care anymore but just tell me. Why is it so hard to accept animus magic and not touch the blasted thing. i persoanlly dislike it as well i just dont see a optional power that i never have to use as a big deal

Dedicated fans son, fans of the AC lore etc.

Also you don't know if you don't have to use it, perhaps it's required of you sometimes to get optional objectives or w/e.

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 06:44 PM
because it makes reliving ancestors memories accurately seem pointless.

Why be super stealthy and try to mimic what Arno did when I can just drive a car through the wall and run over my target?

It's stupid.

aL_____eX
08-26-2014, 06:45 PM
@FourDea123: 'Animus magic' You said it there. I don't need magic in a game that claims to be accurate and as realistic as possible. And blending in crowds, then turning into an NPC or whatever is NOT realistic, it's just bs.

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:47 PM
trust me you dont i have seen leaks it is a abbilites that you can swap out (also please dont imply that im not dedicated to this franchise it is my favourite one i just adapt my play style to keep my imersion)

CoachAssassin
08-26-2014, 06:48 PM
@FourDea123: 'Animus magic' You said it there. I don't need magic in a game that claims to be accurate and as realistic as possible. And blending in crowds, then turning into an NPC or whatever is NOT realistic, it's just bs.


Yep, everything happening in AC, even the precursor **** isn't magic, it's either some kind of science we see as pseudo-science or extremely ahead of its time inventions. The apple is not magic; it's a crafted machine manipulating human brainwaves iirc.

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:49 PM
dont use it then if you dont want the magic (like me) dont use it! dont use it! dont use it!

CoachAssassin
08-26-2014, 06:50 PM
dont use it then if you dont want the magic (like me) dont use it! dont use it! dont use it!

Haha I don't have that much of a problem with it if it gets in there eventually, I just would like to have a nice explanation. If they go by the whole animus hack thing I can actually let it go (THE COLD NEVER BOTHERED ME ANYWAY) and use it ;).

Fatal-Feit
08-26-2014, 06:52 PM
ok your all turning this into a big deal. im done i tried reason i dont care anymore but just tell me. Why is it so hard to accept animus magic and not touch the blasted thing. i persoanlly dislike it as well i just dont see a optional power that i never have to use as a big deal

Your reasoning is subjective.

As someone said, being optional is not an excuse for immersion breaking. Even if the disguise skill is optional, it actually factors in to a lot of gameplay tweaks during production. Developers must always try their best to balance a game. So yes, it may be optional, but it could have potentially effected our gameplay one way or another. It's just like how combat was originally semi-optional, but became a huge factor in the later games. The hidden gun was originally optional in AC:2, but was always forced upon us in AC:B.

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:53 PM
okay sorry if im angry its been a long bad day and i can 100 percent say that the in game explanation will be animus trickery (for a series based around magical mcguffins and space alien gods we sure do love to nitpick a lot. never change forum. never change)

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:55 PM
so is yours

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 06:55 PM
It's not nitpicking.

It's pointing out a clear flaw in game design. One that breaks immersion, basic formula, and logic.

Save animus trickery for after the game's story is completed.

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:56 PM
its not a story element its gameplay element like jeez sometimes i think you all forget that

aL_____eX
08-26-2014, 06:57 PM
I wouldn't mind this animus magic if it wasn't Arno *PLING PLANG insert some more magic sounds here* and then no more Arno and just an NPC looking playable character. I fthe animus magic gave us a dressing chamber, which we walk in, dress as an NPC and walk out, I'd be fine with it. It's just - why does his appearance change out of nowhere?

THAT is immersion breaking as hell. It's something that works in MP, but just hitting a button and whoosh! being a completely different character in SP is crap. We're talking about our first next gen AC, they decide to add a disguise skill, they better execute it more realistic!

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 06:58 PM
Ok in AC Rogue I want my ship to have the ability to fly.

That way I can sail out of danger.

Don't worry, it's just a gameplay element.

Who cares if Shay couldn't do it, it's the ANIMUS

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 06:59 PM
anyway i tried to leave a ton of posts ago so im not going to placate any of you so i'll just say peace for now and hope we meet on more pleasant pastures

Sushiglutton
08-26-2014, 06:59 PM
Am I the only one feeling how the Yes side is gaining momentum every minute :D?



if the disguise skill was an ability of a PoE that Arno had at the time or a power granted by juno/jupiter/minerva or something, I'd understand but...

I'm still peeved about this.

the game better have a damn good explanation. I don't want any of that "animus ability" BS. Otherwise I should be able to use machine guns and fly around paris.


Can't agree with you on this one. A PoE related explanation would be worse imo. Tha way it would be as the magical transformation actually did happen (aka Arno experienced it personally). As it is now it's a glitch in the memory replay.

I also don't think this is like machine guns, or flying. There's nothing strange with Arno having a disguise. The weird thing is the way he obtain it. That's a short moment of disbelief. A machinegun would be something else.

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 07:00 PM
I seriously hope the game devs see this thread along with the #RidOfTheCircle thread.

But honestly this thing bothers me a thousand times more than that circle.

@sushi

I don't know about you, but literally transforming into a woman is just as weird if not more weird than using a weapon out of your time period.

Sushiglutton
08-26-2014, 07:03 PM
And the Yes side has doubled :cool:


@sushi

I don't know about you, but literally transforming into a woman is just as weird if not more weird than using a weapon out of your time period.

Wait, what? Arno can transform into a woman? In the *hrrm* dream *hrrm* I had, he just transformed into the same costume as the guy standing next to him.

jayjay275
08-26-2014, 07:06 PM
Has anyone got Shade on this topic yet? This and the bloody blue circle whilst blending is the only things killing my hype, as well as the NPC shape shifting.

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 07:07 PM
@jayjay

the mods are always suspiciously quiet on these kinds of topics.

Fatal-Feit
08-26-2014, 07:07 PM
its not a story element its gameplay element like jeez sometimes i think you all forget that

You're making a bigger deal out of our criticisms than we are out of the disguise skill.

...Listen, it's called criticisms. It's how Ubisoft make better products. In fact, Unity IS a product of all the fans' feedback. --Blackbox missions, CO-OP, crouch, better controls, harder combat, etc, etc.

aL_____eX
08-26-2014, 07:07 PM
@Sushi: Was it a feverish dream? I had one last night. ;)

It's still stupid... I mean, they could easily add dressing chambers or something like that throughout the city. But so I don't see why I should use disguise without feeling like the whole game world isn't real. I love when an AC game feels as real as it gets (facing the fact we're playing a game)

Sushiglutton
08-26-2014, 07:08 PM
Mayrice where have you seen this gender swapping? This is most disturbing news.



@Sushi: Was it a feverish dream? I had one last night. ;)

It's still stupid... I mean, they could easily add dressing chambers or something like that throughout the city. But so I don't see why I should use disguise without feeling like the whole game world isn't real. I love when an AC game feels as real as it gets (facing the fact we're playing a game)

It was somewhat low-res and buggy, but it was just an alpha dream ;).

Like I said before I think spamming the city with some kind of asset, be it bomb-benches or dressing chambers, is worse to me. This way you won't have to see it all the time. There would be no escape from a dressing chamber invasion.

Believe me I can see why this can be immersion breaking. I mean it's obviously not realistsic. We all have different standards for where the line goes. Some things you accept and som you don't. The stuff I have dreamt were ok to me. No perfect, but ok.

This gender swapping thing would be too much though.

Ureh
08-26-2014, 07:09 PM
I wouldn't mind as much if Arno remained as Arno but his clothes changed temporarily (which is what most folks are asking for, I think). Everyone remembers when Ezio changes his armour or whatever, then his avatar flashes and glows with animusy effects right? I guess it could be like that cause Ezio didn't change to someone else but his clothes/armour did. Know what I mean?

m4r-k7
08-26-2014, 07:09 PM
The disguise skill is an active skill. In other words you can choose another one. Just dont use it, however hard the game may be without it. No point complaining to be honest as they are not going to take it out.

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 07:10 PM
@sushi

I can't tell you because it's against forum rules.

And I ain't gettin no infraction. NN NNN gurl.

@m4r

yeah I fear its too late for them to remove it.

m4r-k7
08-26-2014, 07:13 PM
Remember, just because us forumers dont like it doesn't mean they would take it out anyway. They probably added it to make the game appeal to the mass audience as it makes things easier I am guessing. I'm just not using it at all.

RinoTheBouncer
08-26-2014, 07:13 PM
The disguise skill is an active skill. In other words you can choose another one. Just dont use it, however hard the game may be without it. No point complaining to be honest as they are not going to take it out.

With all due respect, but this argument is very weak. When they make a game with a feature, it’s not simple to just not use it. It’s not like it’s an optional outfit from Tomb Raider or a Weapon DLC for Mass Effect. It’s a part of the gameplay mechanics that certain missions will certainly require and be designed around. I guess since they added the ability to customize our looks then this disguise ability is useless, unless the customization is just a cosmetic thing.

The games started as a simulator for genetic memory that relies on synchronization. I don’t think Arno could use Animus Hacks to perform the kill and therefore, this feature is in the wrong place.

dimbismp
08-26-2014, 07:13 PM
I hoped that Mr_Shade had something to tell about this...This isn't a "no blending cyrcle" kind of argument,this is something more.We need to get rid of it!!!
Even the best explanation cannot make me believe that this skill is not immersion breaking

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 07:16 PM
Vive la revolution!

aL_____eX
08-26-2014, 07:16 PM
Remember, just because us forumers dont like it doesn't mean they would take it out anyway. They probably added it to make the game appeal to the mass audience as it makes things easier I am guessing. I'm just not using it at all.
One of the major points is the lack of multiplayer imo. Because now they take something from MP to SP which MP fans will definitely like. BOOOM! Ubisoft you so sneaky.

m4r-k7
08-26-2014, 07:17 PM
The games started as a simulator for genetic memory that relies on synchronization. I don’t think Arno could use Animus Hacks to perform the kill and therefore, this feature is in the wrong place.

Precisely. But once assassin's creed became such a success, they tailor gameplay mechanics to suit the less hardcore fans and by doing so they add in stupid things like this. The assassin simulator of ac 1 and ac 2 has been long gone and hopefully ac unity will restore most of that. The disguise thing is stupid but you have to think why they would put it in.

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 07:22 PM
Remember, just because us forumers dont like it doesn't mean they would take it out anyway.

Probably because we're "vocal minority"

https://warosu.org/data/fa/img/0073/99/1386748758970.gif

Fatal-Feit
08-26-2014, 07:23 PM
Precisely. But once assassin's creed became such a success, they tailor gameplay mechanics to suit the less hardcore fans and by doing so they add in stupid things like this. The assassin simulator of ac 1 and ac 2 has been long gone and hopefully ac unity will restore most of that. The disguise thing is stupid but you have to think why they would put it in.

AC:2 wasn't an assassin simulator. It was linear and chock-full of combat/chase sequences.

AC:IV brought back the assassin simulator and Unity will be the complete restoration.

m4r-k7
08-26-2014, 07:25 PM
^apart from the disguise skill

Fatal-Feit
08-26-2014, 07:29 PM
**** the disguise skill.

jayjay275
08-26-2014, 07:40 PM
Filthy casuals needing a disguise skill to compete... damn.

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 07:47 PM
Filthy casuals needing a disguise skill to compete... damn.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/7a/7a033e6f3bb31fe674ed73657c197feb5a36fa6e6cf211ff27 ff7fd10b2e8779.jpg

jayjay275
08-26-2014, 07:48 PM
Haha! :D

Hans684
08-26-2014, 08:25 PM
I don't mind the disguise skill since I'm not gonna use it anyway. As for lore wise it makes perfect sense, it's a subtle Animus ability unlike getting the clowning sword and unicorn in ACB(no one complained about that). Those two examples is far more out of place than this disguise skill and it would be hypocritical of me to even dislike the feature since there was a thread about having crazy Animus stuff similar to Digital Trips from W_D and I agreed. People where agreeing in a heartbeat but when something this little is reveled everybody loses their minds.

As for mini guns, wings and cars, it would get us out of sync. We are syncing with every progression we make in these games. Arno with mini guns is historically inaccurate, it would get us out of sync and it isn't subtle at all. The only way we can get such crazy stuff is if we hack the Animus or something so we can install it. I see no problem, don't overthink.

projectpat06
08-26-2014, 08:57 PM
Me thinks the disguise skill is just one of many skills in the single player section. I've seen a picture of the menu and it has "disguise" listed as active skill. Maybe you won't have to use the feature at all if it does not suit your play style.

Also, keep in mind that the versions of history that we are playing now are revamped memories recreated by Abstergo Entertainment. This gives more flexibility in gameplay mechanics and it can also serve as a reason to why were seeing multiplayer features (originally built by Abstergo to train templars) in the single payer experience.

jeordievera
08-26-2014, 09:03 PM
Who voted Yes?!
http://www.okmoviequotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/302-Monty-Python-and-the-Holy-Grail-quotes.gif

Hans684
08-26-2014, 09:03 PM
Also, keep in mind that the versions of history that we are playing now are revamped memories recreated by Abstergo Entertainment. This gives more flexibility in gameplay mechanics and it can also serve as a reason to why were seeing multiplayer features (originally built by Abstergo to train templars) in the single payer experience.

Not confirmed, for all we know it can be an Animus used by Initiates after they accepted Shaun's offer to unite.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Where is the option for "I don't care".

dimbismp
08-26-2014, 09:09 PM
I don't mind the disguise skill since I'm not gonna use it anyway. As for lore wise it makes perfect sense, it's a subtle Animus ability unlike getting the clowning sword and unicorn in ACB(no one complained about that). Those two examples is far more out of place than this disguise skill and it would be hypocritical of me to even dislike the feature since there was a thread about having crazy Animus stuff similar to Digital Trips from W_D and I agreed. People where agreeing in a heartbeat but when something this little is reveled everybody loses their minds.

As for mini guns, wings and cars, it would get us out of sync. We are syncing with every progression we make in these games. Arno with mini guns is historically inaccurate, it would get us out of sync and it isn't subtle at all. The only way we can get such crazy stuff is if we hack the Animus or something so we can install it. I see no problem, don't overthink.
Well these were Animus HACKS.This is an actual skill.It is even in the weapon wheel.
What i believe is that people may like strange things IF they are optional.At least,as some people pointed out,this "skill" might be one of Arno's skills,so we can select a realistic one maybe.

jeordievera
08-26-2014, 09:12 PM
Well these were Animus HACKS.This is an actual skill.It is even in the weapon wheel.
What i believe is that people may like strange things IF they are optional.At least,as some people pointed out,this "skill" might be one of Arno's skills,so we can select a realistic one maybe.
Then its even more dumb. How can this be a skill? Skill is something you learn and I don't know anyone who can just turn into someone else for few seconds..:confused:

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 09:13 PM
deal with it :cool:

Hans684
08-26-2014, 09:13 PM
Well these were Animus HACKS.This is an actual skill.It is even in the weapon wheel.
What i believe is that people may like strange things IF they are optional.At least,as some people pointed out,this "skill" might be one of Arno's skills,so we can select a realistic one maybe.

If he changes out of thin air the skill is an Animus ability that can be accessed in the weapon wheel.

JustPlainQuirky
08-26-2014, 09:14 PM
The three people who voted yes are all secretly UbiDevs

projectpat06
08-26-2014, 09:16 PM
Not confirmed, for all we know it can be an Animus used by Initiates after they accepted Shaun's offer to unite.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Where is the option for "I don't care".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIDkq2msyhM#t=254

watch at 4:12

He states it is now part of a helix system created by Abstergo. Yes, we may be playing as assassins under Shaun away from Abstergo, but we will still be using new Abstergo software created Abstergo Entertainment.

FourDea123
08-26-2014, 09:16 PM
The three people who voted yes are all secretly UbiDevs
man i wish nah im just a unfazed fan

Helforsite
08-26-2014, 09:19 PM
Have no multiplayer in your game? Nobody seems to mind.
Have an optional disguise skill that is slightly immersion breaking? Everybody goes crazy and loses their ****!

Hans684
08-26-2014, 09:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIDkq2msyhM#t=254

watch at 4:12

He states it is now part of a helix system created by Abstergo. Yes, we may be playing as assassins under Shaun away from Abstergo, but we will still be using new Abstergo software created Abstergo Entertainment.

The Assassins have an Animus but the Animus itself was still created by Abstergo.

jeordievera
08-26-2014, 09:22 PM
Have no multiplayer in your game? Nobody seems to mind.
Have an optional disguise skill that is slightly immersion breaking? Everybody goes crazy and loses their ****!
That is not even relevant. And you have the co-op instead of a multiplayer..

SlyTrooper
08-26-2014, 11:58 PM
This skill could actually be a great addition to gameplay if they can explain it so it makes sense. One idea I've had is that we are able to morph because that's how Arno wanted to appear when blending. He wanted to look like a specific person, so the animus is showing who he is is trying to imitate. This means that we don't need to steal anybody's clothes, or morph in private because it's just a visual representation of Arno's skills as an Assassin. This also makes sense as a skill to unlock & use at certain moments, as it would just represent how good he was at blending at that specific moment & as he develops as an Assassin.

Does this make sense?

JustPlainQuirky
08-27-2014, 12:02 AM
^that made sense when Arno was hiding in a crowd but the fact that he stays morphed while walking around in the open totally breaks that theory apart.

Because no matter how hard you try, you will not be percieved as an average NPC commonor with that assassin garb.

SlyTrooper
08-27-2014, 12:31 AM
^that made sense when Arno was hiding in a crowd but the fact that he stays morphed while walking around in the open totally breaks that theory apart.

Because no matter how hard you try, you will not be percieved as an average NPC commonor with that assassin garb.

That's just nitpicking.

Megas_Doux
08-27-2014, 12:52 AM
I hope one can choose whether to active/upgrade that mechanic or not, because I dont like it, AT ALL!!!!!!!!

SolidSage
08-27-2014, 02:34 AM
Ermagerd! It breaks the realism and immersion of running around ancient cities at breakneck speed doing modern parkour moves, diving off of 200' high buildings into tiny haystacks, beating up 15 guards solo, crafting special money bombs, seeing with prophet vision, never having your hood fall down even once while performing all this gymtastic (no typo) excellence, and shooting shiz from your wrist rocket weapon.

pUUleazzze. It's a game, and a good one. Gameplay over realism ALL day EVERY day. Especially when the "realism" in question is absolutely ludicrous to begin with.

Uniting (cwotidid) sp, coop and mp components under the same roof is going to lead to the greatest game play evolutions AC has ever seen. Unity2 is sure to have PvP competetive missions.


And like you've pretty much all said, don't like it, it should be easy to not use it.


P.S.
Honestly, it's not even close to realistic without the disguise ability. It's like complaining about the Cape not billowing realistically in a Superman movie. It really isn't that big a deal.

JustPlainQuirky
08-27-2014, 02:43 AM
Ermagerd! It breaks the realism and immersion of running around ancient cities at breakneck speed doing modern parkour moves, diving off of 200' high buildings into tiny haystacks, beating up 15 guards solo, crafting special money bombs, seeing with prophet vision, never having your hood fall down even once while performing all this gymtastic (no typo) excellence, and shooting shiz from your wrist rocket weapon.

pUUleazzze. It's a game, and a good one. Gameplay over realism ALL day EVERY day. Especially when the "realism" in question is absolutely ludicrous to begin with.

Uniting (cwotidid) sp, coop and mp components under the same roof is going to lead to the greatest game play evolutions AC has ever seen. Unity2 is sure to have PvP competetive missions.


And like you've pretty much all said, don't like it, it should be easy to not use it.


P.S.
Honestly, it's not even close to realistic without the disguise ability. It's like complaining about the Cape not billowing realistically in a Superman movie. It really isn't that big a deal.

It's not a matter of realism. It's a matter of continuity and accessibility.

SolidSage
08-27-2014, 04:35 AM
^ nah, it's a matter of fans waxing philosophic about realism in a video game and problems attributed to features that they haven't even had a chance to test in game yet.

I've played them all since day 1, there's been plenty of dodgy features, this one isn't a big deal. And it may well have a lot to do with the plan for the franchise going forward.
I complain about plenty of shiz but even I think this one isn't anything to get bent over. Give it room to breathe then sensible progression will be obvious.

It's not going to hurt the game. Not worth getting worked up over. And IF it is a hint of potential for future, full sandbox pvp? Then it's a GREAT thing.

Hans684
08-27-2014, 04:55 AM
Had GTA had this feature people wouldn't even care.

shobhit7777777
08-27-2014, 06:33 AM
Ermagerd! It breaks the realism and immersion of running around ancient cities at breakneck speed doing modern parkour moves, diving off of 200' high buildings into tiny haystacks, beating up 15 guards solo, crafting special money bombs, seeing with prophet vision, never having your hood fall down even once while performing all this gymtastic (no typo) excellence, and shooting shiz from your wrist rocket weapon.

Suspension of disbelief...its what you do when executing 4 tangos ;)

All of it is within the realm of plausibility....and if not that....presented in such a manner that makes it easy to digest. All of it is something that the player can internally rationalize and justify. Morphing into an NPC.....yeah, thats a bit problematic.


pUUleazzze. It's a game, and a good one. Gameplay over realism ALL day EVERY day. Especially when the "realism" in question is absolutely ludicrous to begin with

Funny you say that, when a "proper" disguise system would add to gameplay.


Uniting (cwotidid) sp, coop and mp components under the same roof is going to lead to the greatest game play evolutions AC has ever seen. Unity2 is sure to have PvP competetive missions.

Sure....and this disguise skill is not it. Its an MP specific mechanic stuffed into an SP/Coop game. Doesn't fit. Its like Active Sprint in MP.


And like you've pretty much all said, don't like it, it should be easy to not use it.

The only thing I agree with.


Honestly, it's not even close to realistic without the disguise ability. It's like complaining about the Cape not billowing realistically in a Superman movie. It really isn't that big a deal.

There is realism and then there is believability. Halo is far from realistic but the tech in it is presented in a believable manner. Mark & Execute thats not exactly realistic...but its presentation and its concept is grounded in realism...and then gamified for the purpose of gameplay. And not its not the cape in the Superman movie...its one of the major stealth mechanics (His heat vision then?)

Assassin_M
08-27-2014, 06:38 AM
I don't understand...why this? it's so ludicrous. The mechanic was a long time coming BUT the execution could have been loads better--knock out guard, hide body, loot uniform--knock out a civ, steal uniform, hide body..it could have been worked into the blackbox level design and investigation--it could have been WAY more innovative than...this.

SolidSage
08-27-2014, 07:44 AM
Suspension of disbelief...its what you do when executing 4 tangos ;)
No, that's realistic. I do it all the time :)


All of it is within the realm of plausibility....and if not that....presented in such a manner that makes it easy to digest. All of it is something that the player can internally rationalize and justify. Morphing into an NPC.....yeah, thats a bit problematic.
Yes but when you are wandering through a crowd of 5000 AI in Unity2, and three enemy players are searching for you as you are on your way to assassinate their VIP NPC Landholder, you're not going to want to run to that bomb box to 'build' a disguise. You're going to want access to that skill tree ability.
...if social stealth is your thing.

I'm going to have combat juice!




Funny you say that, when a "proper" disguise system would add to gameplay.
I never did find Hitman appealing. And I don't really want to go too far into RPG. Like someone said, I'm okay with a shield change not having a deeper animation or making me pay for access to it with my play time.

Honestly, how long would the disguise procurement loop be fun for before it became a chore? Ability play IS good when it's not an avalanche of them. Pop a smoke, escape, cooldown, move closer to your objective. Pop a disguise, skirt those three jackals out for your blood, inch closer to a successful hit.

I just think it's a better pace.




Sure....and this disguise skill is not it. Its an MP specific mechanic stuffed into an SP/Coop game. Doesn't fit. Its like Active Sprint in MP.
Active Sprint ain't all bad. I use it a lot. It could be better.

I think you are making an assumption that the project path for this new evolution AC is sp/coop only. I think it's progressing towards more comprehensive social play. Sure, Unity doesn't have it, but, are we still on an annual cycle? Or is two per annum now?




The only thing I agree with.
There'd have been two if I had said I thought Lena Dunham was sexy. (*snicker*)




There is realism and then there is believability. Halo is far from realistic but the tech in it is presented in a believable manner. Mark & Execute thats not exactly realistic...but its presentation and its concept is grounded in realism...and then gamified for the purpose of gameplay. And not its not the cape in the Superman movie...its one of the major stealth mechanics (His heat vision then?)
What are you talking about? You don't play Creed much do you? Rookie. Look, to keep it simple, just think of it as the Matrix. Your system is YOUR access point.

I mean if this thread is really arguing about severing the connection to the technological future and making AC a historically pure experience, I'm up for it. But then the TOWCB and the whole rationalization of Special DNA has to come into question as well. AND THEN....Assassin's Creed gets boring to play.

Just go with it Shobhit, should be easy for a grown man who can rationalize running around with young boys in the middle of the night wearing underwear on the outside of their pants.

shobhit7777777
08-27-2014, 08:38 AM
No, that's realistic. I do it all the time :)


And I regularly pound criminals into a wheelchair state every night....oh wait I DO!


Yes but when you are wandering through a crowd of 5000 AI in Unity2, and three enemy players are searching for you as you are on your way to assassinate their VIP NPC Landholder, you're not going to want to run to that bomb box to 'build' a disguise. You're going to want access to that skill tree ability.
...if social stealth is your thing.

I'm going to have combat juice!

When we get PvP....THEN we can talk about Assassin's gaining shapeshifting abilities


Honestly, how long would the disguise procurement loop be fun for before it became a chore? Ability play IS good when it's not an avalanche of them. Pop a smoke, escape, cooldown, move closer to your objective. Pop a disguise, skirt those three jackals out for your blood, inch closer to a successful hit.

You like sneaking around or knocking people out? well then! You'll love obtaining disguises. Its far far away from a chore. What I've outlined is simple enough to be believable and yet adds that one extra wrinkle that makes it a worthwhile activity. KO - Steal clothes (Just the loot animation) - voila you're now an NPC wearing funny pants


Active Sprint ain't all bad. I use it a lot. It could be better.

I think you are making an assumption that the project path for this new evolution AC is sp/coop only. I think it's progressing towards more comprehensive social play. Sure, Unity doesn't have it, but, are we still on an annual cycle? Or is two per annum now?

I think we're both making assumptions. You're talking about a PvP project years down the line....I'm talking about a mechanic currently being developed (or has been developed) for an SP/COOP experience.

I'll re-iterate...when there is PvP - like the one you're thinking of - Then yea lets go for the shapeshifting...in SP? I'd rather not have it.


Just go with it Shobhit, should be easy for a grown man who can rationalize running around with young boys in the middle of the night wearing underwear on the outside of their pants.
HA! You're just jealous

MrHandsss
08-27-2014, 12:29 PM
I'd prefer having to incapacitate a guard and taking their clothes as past games have done. this just seems too silly and easy.

Sushiglutton
08-27-2014, 01:08 PM
I think we're both making assumptions. You're talking about a PvP project years down the line....I'm talking about a mechanic currently being developed (or has been developed) for an SP/COOP experience.

I'll re-iterate...when there is PvP - like the one you're thinking of - Then yea lets go for the shapeshifting...in SP? I'd rather not have it.


I notcie you say what you prefer for PvP and SP, but not what you prefer for COOP. Clever move Bats! Surely you agree that having the full disguise dance in coop would become a bit tedious. I mean have you ever followed you GF to the mall so she can buy clothes? That sht is brutal!

Farlander1991
08-27-2014, 01:36 PM
If you go stealth in co-op though, it's still going to be a slow and methodic experience just like stealth in SP would. I don't really get the presumption that a simple clothes-changing logistic would make the stealth excruciatingly longer in co-op, the overall difference won't be that big honestly.

GoldenBoy9999
08-27-2014, 02:20 PM
If casual people don't want to do disguises the more realistic way( the way everyone wants) then they don't have to do them. If people aren't going to be methodical, and are instead rushing everything then they wouldn't want to use the disguise skill anyway.

If people want to play methodical then they shouldn't have to use this stupid disguise skill.

jeordievera
08-27-2014, 04:17 PM
If casual people don't want to do disguises the more realistic way( the way everyone wants) then they don't have to do them. If people aren't going to be methodical, and are instead rushing everything then they wouldn't want to use the disguise skill anyway.

If people want to play methodical then they shouldn't have to use this stupid disguise skill.
So basically it means there should be no disguise skill because no one wants to use it!
I am going to make a T-shirtfor the competitionwith No to disguise on it :D

Kakuzu745
08-27-2014, 07:02 PM
I hope not... I could accept breaks from realism in the multiplayer but such Animus trickery in SP? Please no...

This

Assassin_M
08-27-2014, 07:07 PM
If I can change my disguise on a body then that's what I'm gonna do. Knock someone out, get close to them, press loot button then press disguise button. I hope i can do this.

SlyTrooper
08-27-2014, 07:18 PM
If I can change my disguise on a body then that's what I'm gonna do. Knock someone out, get close to them, press loot button then press disguise button. I hope i can do this.

But your face will change too.

JustPlainQuirky
08-27-2014, 07:20 PM
Arno can turn to a woman if he wanted too.

#masterofdisguise

Assassin_M
08-27-2014, 07:24 PM
But your face will change too.
Why did you tell me that?? godammit...now i have to forget...or pretend that you're lying...LIAR

Sushiglutton
08-27-2014, 07:29 PM
If you go stealth in co-op though, it's still going to be a slow and methodic experience just like stealth in SP would. I don't really get the presumption that a simple clothes-changing logistic would make the stealth excruciatingly longer in co-op, the overall difference won't be that big honestly.

I think if it's the stalk-isolate-knockout-hide body thing, that may be problematic for co-op. I have not played too much of it. But in my experience you kind of wanna avoid friction like this. I dunno, would have to playtest obv. I can see it being a potential issue.

Ofc one can argue that it's a shame that co-op is affecting the SP in this negative way. The skill doesn't have to work the same in both. Maybe something to work on for future titles?



Arno can turn to a woman if he wanted too.

#masterofdisguise


Plot twist: Arno/Elise is the same character :nonchalance:

SlyTrooper
08-27-2014, 09:08 PM
I may get a bit of hate for this, but the disguise skill is warming up on me. It's just like with the Rogue demos: at first I thought it looked terrible, but now I appreciate what it's trying to do, & I like it. This is probably due to the fact that I am able to explain this feature in a way that makes sense within the lore of the series, meaning Ubi has likely done the same. They're not just going to leave it unexplained.

By the way, going off-topic for a second, is everyone still p*ssed about Rogue or have you all warmed up to it like me?

JustPlainQuirky
08-27-2014, 09:09 PM
You should ask that in the Rogue discussion thread.

SlyTrooper
08-27-2014, 09:35 PM
You should ask that in the Rogue discussion thread.

I didn't want that to be the main focus. That's why I only mentioned it briefly.

pacmanate
08-27-2014, 10:38 PM
Plot twist: Arno/Elise is the same character :nonchalance:

That makes sense!

Arno creates Elise from his imagination due to the stress of losing his father.

aL_____eX
08-27-2014, 10:41 PM
Or he just knows some real good tailor and owns some fancy wigs.

SlyTrooper
08-27-2014, 11:09 PM
That makes sense!

Arno creates Elise from his imagination due to the stress of losing his father.

If he is imagining Elise, does that mean he is making out with a pillow?

pacmanate
08-27-2014, 11:10 PM
If he is imagining Elise, does that mean he is making out with a pillow?

I think air is a more valid theory, I don't see how he would carry a pillow around

SlyTrooper
08-27-2014, 11:27 PM
I think air is a more valid theory, I don't see how he would carry a pillow around

With his hands maybe? :p

pacmanate
08-27-2014, 11:50 PM
With his hands maybe? :p

Well... I guess Edward did put ear rings and plates down his mega pants...

SolidSage
08-28-2014, 05:47 AM
@Shobhit7777777
But Neo, it's the Matrix, not dress up Princess time.
The actual process of looting or crafting IS the reward. boring It's not 'more hard core AC' to want a more involved disguise, or "casual" to like it as is. I just know the best way to play AC is on the move.

Bad guy. Bang, disguise (out of LOS cos the change would be detected), move on quickly to avoid change back detection.

Immersion?! Pah, if you want that you have more than enough tools to craft it yourself. Don't aquire disguise through the skill trees.

Let's not even go into "Oh but the other players using it are ruining my game'. That's how I lost Stun Locking, probably one of THE most demanding team work skill assets, gone. (I hope it comes back).

Anyway, what I'm seeing is a MP component being offered in SP/Coop. Maybe as a feeler. I have no problem with MP components at all, I mean, I can choose which ones I use, and I can also choose to play socially with friends and allies only, to avoid any, unwanted, disguisers. (*snicker*). It's just funny to me man :)

shobhit7777777
08-28-2014, 06:57 AM
snip

No

And

bad guy? Rooftops! Bang! Safe
bad guy? Crowds! Bang! Safe
bad guy? Smoke! Bang! Safe
bad guy? Opposing Faction! Bang! Safe

I'd rather see disguises being used for infiltration than as a getaway tool....y'know where it makes sense.

SolidSage
08-28-2014, 08:42 AM
Cooldowns...they're not quick. The control you want is there, it's just implemented in a way that let's the tool be an aid at a useful time, rather than making getting the tool a side quest.

It might not be implemented that well but I find it hard to assume that it won't be done decently. Like, I 'assume' the design was tested and validated. You have seen footage of Unity in action right? Does it look like they are doing it wrong?
Well, it can't all be roses, this is as good a feature as any to question I suppose.

At the very least we should give it the benefit of the doubt though. Crowds of 5000? Do you think it's possible that guard groups or other enemy archetypes might catch us off guard more than usual?
I know that looting bodies over and over is a waste of valuable play time and does nothing for immersion at all, if anything it breaks the immersion with its repetetive nature. Spamming skip is part of it too. Let's just not and say we did.

Welcome to the Animus.

shobhit7777777
08-28-2014, 09:29 AM
Cooldowns...they're not quick. The control you want is there, it's just implemented in a way that let's the tool be an aid at a useful time, rather than making getting the tool a side quest.

It might not be implemented that well but I find it hard to assume that it won't be done decently. Like, I 'assume' the design was tested and validated. You have seen footage of Unity in action right? Does it look like they are doing it wrong?
Well, it can't all be roses, this is as good a feature as any to question I suppose.

At the very least we should give it the benefit of the doubt though. Crowds of 5000? Do you think it's possible that guard groups or other enemy archetypes might catch us off guard more than usual?
I know that looting bodies over and over is a waste of valuable play time and does nothing for immersion at all, if anything it breaks the immersion with its repetetive nature. Spamming skip is part of it too. Let's just not and say we did.

Welcome to the Animus.

I am right and you are wrong
I'm gonna yell - "I'm Batman"!
and end this dreary effing song!

rob.davies2014
08-28-2014, 11:36 AM
So we know that in Unity there is a skill progression tree. Maybe the instant disguise ability we saw in that video was the final fully-upgraded version of that skill.

Maybe more primitive versions are more limited (e.g. can only change in haystack/cupboard, it takes longer to disguise etc)

I'm really hoping this is the case and if it isn't maybe Ubi could consider tweaking it so it worked this way. Because then everyone would be happy; those who like the instant change and those who want a more realistic disguise system.

SlyTrooper
08-28-2014, 03:41 PM
So we know that in Unity there is a skill progression tree. Maybe the instant disguise ability we saw in that video was the final fully-upgraded version of that skill.

Maybe more primitive versions are more limited (e.g. can only change in haystack/cupboard, it takes longer to disguise etc)

I'm really hoping this is the case and if it isn't maybe Ubi could consider tweaking it so it worked this way. Because then everyone would be happy; those who like the instant change and those who want a more realistic disguise system.

Try not to look at it as realistic in the real world. Approach it more by looking at the physics in the animus. Since we are viewing Arno's memories & not just using the animus to train, like in multiplayer, morphing doesn't make as much sense. But that doesn't mean it is impossible. As I have said previously, the animus may just be showing us what Arno was trying to appear as so that we a have a visual reminder that we are disguised. In reality, Arno may have just copied their mannerisms &/or stolen their outfit. But the animus is making the process quicker & easier for us by showing him as an exact copy of the person he is impersonating.

Is this a logical way of looking at it? If Ubi use a similar explanation I will welcome this feature.

rob.davies2014
08-28-2014, 03:58 PM
Try not to look at it as realistic in the real world. Approach it more by looking at the physics in the animus. Since we are viewing Arno's memories & not just using the animus to train, like in multiplayer, morphing doesn't make as much sense. But that doesn't mean it is impossible. As I have said previously, the animus may just be showing us what Arno was trying to appear as so that we a have a visual reminder that we are disguised. In reality, Arno may have just copied their mannerisms &/or stolen their outfit. But the animus is making the process quicker & easier for us by showing him as an exact copy of the person he is impersonating.

Is this a logical way of looking at it? If Ubi use a similar explanation I will welcome this feature.

I understand that the Animus simplifies a lot of what actually happened and that's it's not an exact representation of past events.

However, I feel like this is a step too far. It feels more like using a cheat than playing the game properly. I would much rather take the time to acquire and put on a disguise than just suddenly morph into an NPC.

I know I'm in the Animus but I don't like being reminded of that fact in such a conspicuous, in-your-face way.

SlyTrooper
08-28-2014, 10:34 PM
I understand that the Animus simplifies a lot of what actually happened and that's it's not an exact representation of past events.

However, I feel like this is a step too far. It feels more like using a cheat than playing the game properly. I would much rather take the time to acquire and put on a disguise than just suddenly morph into an NPC.

I know I'm in the Animus but I don't like being reminded of that fact in such a conspicuous, in-your-face way.

But that's just down to personal taste. Most people here seem to be annoyed because it doesn't seem to make sense. But, as I said before, there are ways of justifying it.

Kakuzu745
08-28-2014, 10:43 PM
So, question...a lot of people hate this...is this actually currently in game or?

SlyTrooper
08-28-2014, 11:02 PM
So, question...a lot of people hate this...is this actually currently in game or?

As of now, this is in the game.

dissaor_13
08-29-2014, 02:56 AM
What disguises???

:confused:

Kakuzu745
08-29-2014, 06:40 AM
As of now, this is in the game.

Ew really? I missed that...I seriously hope they do not include it...maybe that is why they delayed the game ;)

pacmanate
08-29-2014, 05:23 PM
Okay, yeah, if there was ever an "immersion" breaking thing, this is it.

How the hell would this even make sense in the real world? It wouldn't. This is by far the stupidist thing in an AC game, ever.

Also this backs up my own point of AC1 being more assassin simulator and everything else following being more "gamey". We can already upgrade our Arno with skill points, thats immersion breaking enough, and now we can use the MP disguise skill, lol.

jayjay275
08-29-2014, 05:33 PM
Okay, yeah, if there was ever an "immersion" breaking thing, this is it.

How the hell would this even make sense in the real world? It wouldn't. This is by far the stupidist thing in an AC game, ever.

Also this backs up my own point of AC1 being more assassin simulator and everything else following being more "gamey". We can already upgrade our Arno with skill points, thats immersion breaking enough, and now we can use the MP disguise skill, lol.

Yup, it's beyond ridiculous and completely goes against what the animus is for - reliving an ancestor's memory. I'm pretty sure Arno did not have the ability to change outfits at the snap of a finger, let alone change into a different body.

JustPlainQuirky
08-29-2014, 05:36 PM
plot twist Arno is a magician.

Kakuzu745
08-29-2014, 06:35 PM
Next week: You will be able to assassinate your targets from a distance with the fantastic Animus Hack.

Please remove this thing...

Xstantin
08-29-2014, 06:37 PM
I'll probably just ignore it like Revelations' Defense game.

Kakuzu745
08-29-2014, 08:18 PM
I'll probably just ignore it like Revelations' Defense game.

Come on Den Defense was kewl!

jeordievera
08-29-2014, 08:24 PM
6 Ubi devs voted yes :rolleyes:

Hans684
08-29-2014, 08:41 PM
It's not like we are reliving memories in a machine that simulates the world.

projectpat06
08-29-2014, 08:41 PM
Yup, it's beyond ridiculous and completely goes against what the animus is for - reliving an ancestor's memory. I'm pretty sure Arno did not have the ability to change outfits at the snap of a finger, let alone change into a different body.

It's not the animus anymore......it's the helix

SlyTrooper
08-29-2014, 09:30 PM
It's not the animus anymore......it's the helix

I'm assuming that's what Abstergo call their entertainment machines then?

TheDanteEX
08-29-2014, 09:38 PM
They could have just had "faction uniforms". Wearing a guard-like outfit will slow down detection time from the guards but speed up detection from thugs and such. It keeps in line with their stat-focused clothing.

HiddenKiller612
08-29-2014, 10:10 PM
I'm assuming that's what Abstergo call their entertainment machines then?
We aren't at Abstergo Entertainment anymore... we're with the assassins... so perhaps thats what the assassin's call their new animus machine.

SlyTrooper
08-30-2014, 12:37 AM
We aren't at Abstergo Entertainment anymore... we're with the assassins... so perhaps thats what the assassin's call their new animus machine.

They were releasing the animus to the public, weren't they? I'm pretty sure that the modern day plot is that we've bought one (our consoles) & the Assassins have hacked it.

mgg93
08-30-2014, 12:55 AM
Ok, everybody chill. I got this:

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag407/MarioJLennon/Captura_zpsba616a8b.jpg

I'm pretty sure this means that the Disguise skill is nothing but one out of four unrealistic skills! Isn't it just wonderful? :rolleyes:

(Also this seems to indicate that these skills are only to be used in co-op mode)

JustPlainQuirky
08-30-2014, 01:31 AM
rumors said the disguise skill was used in singleplayer.

pacmanate
08-30-2014, 01:39 AM
Animus Omega is the Animus used in AC4.

The Helix seems to be either the database, or the name of the Animus we are using.

m4r-k7
08-30-2014, 01:52 AM
The disguise skill is an active skill. You are only allowed one active skill. There are others to choose from. It is not compulsory..

Kakuzu745
09-01-2014, 05:32 AM
The disguise skill is an active skill. You are only allowed one active skill. There are others to choose from. It is not compulsory..

Still...it should not be in the game regardless of if you are going to use it or not.

cawatrooper
09-16-2014, 02:39 AM
I'm really worried about how the disguises will affect immersion in Unity. Being able to instantly switch into another person- not just in clothing, but physique as well- just seems kind of silly to me. I've heard that it will only be a skill in the Multiplayer Brotherhood missions, but even then I'd rather not have such an immersion breaking feature. Also, I've seen some leaked Beta footage from Single Player where Arno is able to copy a man's disguise while standing right in front of him. I know that Ubisoft has explained this by saying that it's an Animus hack, but that just seems like a cheap cop-out to give characters in a relatively realistic game powers like Alex Mercer in "Prototype".

Am I alone in being worried about this feature, or do you guys share my concern?

JustPlainQuirky
09-16-2014, 02:42 AM
Oh boy did you miss out on that 'morphing' thread.

Someone post a link to it pls I can't find it.

And brofist for bringing up my homie Alex Mercer

DumbGamerTag94
09-16-2014, 02:46 AM
Yeah I think the feature sucks

JustPlainQuirky
09-16-2014, 02:47 AM
*grumble grumble* I found it

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/909989-Disguise-skill?highlight=disguise

cawatrooper
09-16-2014, 02:54 AM
Yeah, it looks like it's pretty unpopular.

Anyway, is there a way for me to delete this thread, since it's a duplicate?

JustPlainQuirky
09-16-2014, 02:58 AM
nope.

just leave it alone and it'll be buried by other threads or a mod will take it down for ya.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
09-16-2014, 07:13 AM
Yeahhh... the whole insta-morph is disappointing. I was hoping it'd be more like Hitman. Won't be using this ability after all.

RinoTheBouncer
09-16-2014, 11:06 AM
I still don’t see how this feature was even considered for the game. Seriously? for the past 6 games, we’ve been talking all about synchronization and now we can just morph into someone else and call it “Animus Hack”? what did Arno, the ancestor do? did he morph in real life?

JustPlainQuirky
09-16-2014, 12:49 PM
I still don’t see how this feature was even considered for the game. Seriously? for the past 6 games, we’ve been talking all about synchronization and now we can just morph into someone else and call it “Animus Hack”? what did Arno, the ancestor do? did he morph in real life?

Amen brotha

pacmanate
09-16-2014, 02:23 PM
I still don’t see how this feature was even considered for the game. Seriously? for the past 6 games, we’ve been talking all about synchronization and now we can just morph into someone else and call it “Animus Hack”? what did Arno, the ancestor do? did he morph in real life?

I like how I agree with like 98% of your posts. I've been thinking the same thing and was about to post this.

Does anyone have any explanation of how this is plausible?

m4r-k7
09-16-2014, 04:01 PM
I bet the only reason they put it in was to help the less hardcore fans. I bet it makes the game ALOT easier as you can literally walk up to your target without using any common sense.

I really really hope a mission doesn't say "use the disguise skill to kill..."

Kakuzu745
09-16-2014, 06:27 PM
I still don’t see how this feature was even considered for the game. Seriously? for the past 6 games, we’ve been talking all about synchronization and now we can just morph into someone else and call it “Animus Hack”? what did Arno, the ancestor do? did he morph in real life?

Amen.

And if this was meant to help less hardcore fans...come on! It is the wrong approach...so if I suck at combat then I should be godly and not killable because I am not a hardcore player? The main point of a videogame is to enjoy some form of challenge, if everything is dumbed down then we could just make cgi trailers where you can watch a story without any form of difficulty.

RinoTheBouncer
09-16-2014, 09:39 PM
I like how I agree with like 98% of your posts. I've been thinking the same thing and was about to post this.

Does anyone have any explanation of how this is plausible?

Yeah. We share a lot of similar ideas about the franchise :)
I don’t understand why they contradict themselves so much. One moment they instill a certain belief or understanding in us and then seek to change that. They always focus on synching and now the “hacks” are part of the main game. I wonder if we falling from a high building will makes us desynchronize or perhaps getting detected. Cause if it does, then the game really contradicts itself by allowing uncanny abilities and disallowing others that are equally on the same level.


I really really hope a mission doesn't say "use the disguise skill to kill..."

That’s what I’m afraid of, the most regarding this matter.


Amen.

And if this was meant to help less hardcore fans...come on! It is the wrong approach...so if I suck at combat then I should be godly and not killable because I am not a hardcore player? The main point of a videogame is to enjoy some form of challenge, if everything is dumbed down then we could just make cgi trailers where you can watch a story without any form of difficulty.

Perfectly said!

A game should maintain it’s value and level. If you wanna play it, then you should be ready to face it for what it is. It feels like AC’s going through the same thing Resident Evil went through. Changed gameplay style, became much easier and less challenging and deviated a lot from what it used to be as a game.

pacmanate
09-16-2014, 09:48 PM
I just don't see how they can say they have more realistic AI, more realistic crowd density, more realistic combat. The next gen hardware allowing for more realistic settings.

Yet we can now transform into someone else.

If you want to talk about immersion, about realism, at least freaking stick to that concept instead of adding something that completely contradicts that.

RinoTheBouncer
09-16-2014, 10:22 PM
I just don't see how they can say they have more realistic AI, more realistic crowd density, more realistic combat. The next gen hardware allowing for more realistic settings.

Yet we can now transform into someone else.

If you want to talk about immersion, about realism, at least freaking stick to that concept instead of adding something that completely contradicts that.

Yeah. Exactly.

It’s like they’re turning the game to something it’s not. From the highlights in ACIV to the circles and HUDs, not to mention popups here and now the disguise skill? I feel like there are too many immersion breaking techniques. I’m playing AC1 now as we speak as I planned a marathon for the whole franchise since on 56 days are left for the release of ACU and ACRo, and I’m noticing how the franchise was so immersive and story-driven despite being the first game on past gen.

Kakuzu745
09-16-2014, 10:26 PM
Perfectly said!

A game should maintain it’s value and level. If you wanna play it, then you should be ready to face it for what it is. It feels like AC’s going through the same thing Resident Evil went through. Changed gameplay style, became much easier and less challenging and deviated a lot from what it used to be as a game.

Oh no, please do not say that! Imagine If Unity is the next RE 6? :S

Honestly companies need to understand that they do not have to "babysit" their gamers...if some guy grabbed a control and decided to enjoy a game I would assume he wants to actually have to pay attention to what he is doing, learn the game, understand the basics of the game.

When you keep dumbing down games you will start getting more and more people asking themselves "why is this game not as easy as xxx in my iPhone, consoles are no fun" when you actually make a game with some form of challenge.



I just don't see how they can say they have more realistic AI, more realistic crowd density, more realistic combat. The next gen hardware allowing for more realistic settings.

Yet we can now transform into someone else.

If you want to talk about immersion, about realism, at least freaking stick to that concept instead of adding something that completely contradicts that.

Exactly...Amancio gives this whole speech about inmersion in terms of the language and the translation of the animus because they want everything to make you feel like you are 100% sync...and then you use disguise and everything goes to hell. Soon we are probably getting animus hack or decoy...

m4r-k7
09-16-2014, 10:26 PM
I’m playing AC1 now as we speak as I planned a marathon for the whole franchise since on 56 days are left for the release of ACU and ACRo, and I’m noticing how the franchise was so immersive and story-driven despite being the first game on past gen.

I agree, AC 1 was incredibly immersive. The world of AC 1 was the most captivating IMO.

JustPlainQuirky
09-16-2014, 10:29 PM
I want to hear Ubisoft's take on this.

But I'm secretly hoping the two week delay was used to modify this, add option to disable blue circle, and to tweak the cyberspace that replaced modern day.

RinoTheBouncer
09-16-2014, 10:45 PM
I agree, AC 1 was incredibly immersive. The world of AC 1 was the most captivating IMO.

Yeah. It’s beautiful. I wish we can see a remake sometime or perhaps a similar game set in that period say starring Al Mualim when he was young or something. It would be very interesting to see that world in today’s graphics. It was perfect and still doesn’t feel outdated.


Oh no, please do not say that! Imagine If Unity is the next RE 6? :S

That’s what I’m afraid of and what’s most likely gonna happen.


Honestly companies need to understand that they do not have to "babysit" their gamers...if some guy grabbed a control and decided to enjoy a game I would assume he wants to actually have to pay attention to what he is doing, learn the game, understand the basics of the game.

When you keep dumbing down games you will start getting more and more people asking themselves "why is this game not as easy as xxx in my iPhone, consoles are no fun" when you actually make a game with some form of challenge.

Very well said. I miss the days when I get stuck in a Tomb Raider level for 2 weeks or a Silent Hill puzzles for a few days or a Resident Evil boss fight for hours. Now everything is breast-fed to us and all these reticules, highlights, circles, HUDs, pop ups, guides..etc. there’s not even a point for a walkthrough book.


I want to hear Ubisoft's take on this.

But I'm secretly hoping the two week delay was used to modify this, add option to disable blue circle, and to tweak the cyberspace that replaced modern day.

I’m sure they’ve heard us. This thread is big enough and I’ve tweeted the question multiple times when Amancio was doing Q&A and he didn’t answer. But since they always don’t comment about leaked material or rumors, they probably saw it and didn’t wanna comment.

JustPlainQuirky
09-16-2014, 10:47 PM
I’m sure they’ve heard us. This thread is big enough and I’ve tweeted the question multiple times when Amancio was doing Q&A and he didn’t answer. But since they always don’t comment about leaked material or rumors, they probably saw it and didn’t wanna comment.

They do the same thing regarding Connor questions.

I think no answer after clear questioning clearly indicates they are at least discussing it behind closed doors.

Which is nice.

m4r-k7
09-16-2014, 10:48 PM
Yeah. It’s beautiful. I wish we can see a remake sometime or perhaps a similar game set in that period say starring Al Mualim when he was young or something. It would be very interesting to see that world in today’s graphics. It was perfect and still doesn’t feel outdated.t.

That would be a brilliant idea! I would also LOVE an AC 1 re-mastered (graphics only)

pacmanate
09-16-2014, 11:06 PM
I doubt they are going to remove disguise. I would think it would involve removing too much code and might mess stuff up.

JustPlainQuirky
09-16-2014, 11:09 PM
I doubt they are going to remove disguise. I would think it would involve removing too much code and might mess stuff up.

Ubi works on a zillion games at a time with a zillion different coders having to collaberate.

I'm certain they have taken on much more difficult tasks for even lesser reward.

It's a professional company. You don't just leave something as it is because you 'don't want to risk messing things up'

MnemonicSyntax
09-16-2014, 11:23 PM
Ubi works on a zillion games at a time with a zillion different coders having to collaberate.

I'm certain they have taken on much more difficult tasks for even lesser reward.

It's a professional company. You don't just leave something as it is because you 'don't want to risk messing things up'

If you knew anything about programming, you wouldn't be saying that.

No matter how professional, one parsed string error and it'll throw exceptions everywhere.

JustPlainQuirky
09-16-2014, 11:26 PM
If you knew anything about programming, you wouldn't be saying that.

No matter how professional, one parsed string error and it'll throw exceptions everywhere.

I am aware. But certainly a multi million dollar company wouldn't use "we might mess up the code" as a viable explanation.

it's not like these kinds of problems aren't common.

MnemonicSyntax
09-16-2014, 11:37 PM
I am aware. But certainly a multi million dollar company wouldn't use "we might mess up the code" as a viable explanation.

it's not like these kinds of problems aren't common.

It could very well mess up the code though. They won't use it as an excuse, but something like "this late in the game we can't really change it."

It would be easier to just disable the code or modify instead of just removing it.

Unfortunately, a lot of coding is quite linear. I'm not saying it's not possible to do something about Disguise, but outright removing it would probably be a very bad idea.

JustPlainQuirky
09-16-2014, 11:40 PM
I recently vouched just modifying it. At least to the point only Arno's clothes changes. That at least implies a short timeskip of him leaving and returning to change clothes or something.

RinoTheBouncer
09-17-2014, 10:58 AM
That would be a brilliant idea! I would also LOVE an AC 1 re-mastered (graphics only)

Yeah. It would be so amazing to see the original game, exactly as it is, remastered in today’s graphics. Perhaps in 2017, on the 10th anniversary of the franchise. It’s either that or a box set of all games remastered for PS4.


They do the same thing regarding Connor questions.

I think no answer after clear questioning clearly indicates they are at least discussing it behind closed doors.

Which is nice.

Yeah. That’s what I thought, as well.

jeordievera
09-17-2014, 11:38 AM
It really depens on how much the game is evolved around the disguise skill. If there would be a whole mission with disguise as a tool to finish it that would be dificult to re-do the whole thing.

pacmanate
09-17-2014, 01:29 PM
Ubi works on a zillion games at a time with a zillion different coders having to collaberate.

I'm certain they have taken on much more difficult tasks for even lesser reward.

It's a professional company. You don't just leave something as it is because you 'don't want to risk messing things up'

lolwut? Thats exactly the problem

Removing disguise:

1. Removing disguise ability, guess thats obvious
2. Remove the morphing animation
3. Remove disguise skill tree abilities/upgrades
4. Remove potential achievements for disguise


There would probably me more stuff too, but removing code and adding code can make other things not work properly, even the slightest thing.

Kakuzu745
09-17-2014, 04:23 PM
lolwut? Thats exactly the problem

Removing disguise:

1. Removing disguise ability, guess thats obvious
2. Remove the morphing animation
3. Remove disguise skill tree abilities/upgrades
4. Remove potential achievements for disguise


There would probably me more stuff too, but removing code and adding code can make other things not work properly, even the slightest thing.

But can we at least stay positive and hope they remove it? Tbh it is not THAT hard to remove either...

Worst case scenario they can change the category to a cheat instead of a skill.

RinoTheBouncer
09-17-2014, 04:23 PM
Is it possible that they just remove the disguise button. Like let everything else remain, just make it impossible to access it. I’m no programer, but I designed my own website and that’s what I do when I remove a page, haha!

Sushiglutton
09-17-2014, 04:40 PM
You guys are hystrical... It's one of several optional skills. That means that the "don't like it, don't use it" argument applies in full. Have the devs done all the work for a disguise ability they should of course release it into the wild and get feedback. Then they can iterate and perhaps make a more advanced version next time. Just removing it wouldsolve nothing.

Mods tell the disguise devs from me to keep up the good work :)!

m4r-k7
09-17-2014, 04:43 PM
^ Exactly. Just don't use it if you don't like it, I'm certainly not going to :D

Kakuzu745
09-17-2014, 06:11 PM
It is not the point of using it or not...the point is do not give us a whole inmersion speech for everything where you are going to put this kind of stuff.

They could go ahead and put an F14 for you to pilot, so if you do not use it that makes it OK?

People need to stop being so "OK" with whatever they decide to throw at our faces...it is OK to disagree with development choices and voice it, especially when it is something that most people do not like or find irrelevant.

MnemonicSyntax
09-17-2014, 06:32 PM
But can we at least stay positive and hope they remove it? Tbh it is not THAT hard to remove either...

Worst case scenario they can change the category to a cheat instead of a skill.

Ever code before? As I said last page, chances are "removing it" wouldn't work so well as simply modifying it.


It is not the point of using it or not...the point is do not give us a whole inmersion speech for everything where you are going to put this kind of stuff.

They could go ahead and put an F14 for you to pilot, so if you do not use it that makes it OK?

People need to stop being so "OK" with whatever they decide to throw at our faces...it is OK to disagree with development choices and voice it, especially when it is something that most people do not like or find irrelevant.

If it was required for use, I could see your point, but if it's a skill... and not mandatory... then I think you're getting worked up over nothing. The entire theme behind Assassin's Creed is choice. This gives the 9 or so people who do like it the CHOICE to use it and those that don't want to, don't have to.

An ability that's optional and desired by some but not by all is hardly something "thrown at our faces." You can't please everyone, but you can be damn sure Ubisoft is trying.

Kakuzu745
09-17-2014, 07:07 PM
Ever code before? As I said last page, chances are "removing it" wouldn't work so well as simply modifying it.

Yes I have...it is not easy but it is not as hard as you are trying to make it sound especially considering it is not just two guys coding stuff.



If it was required for use, I could see your point, but if it's a skill... and not mandatory... then I think you're getting worked up over nothing. The entire theme behind Assassin's Creed is choice. This gives the 9 or so people who do like it the CHOICE to use it and those that don't want to, don't have to.

An ability that's optional and desired by some but not by all is hardly something "thrown at our faces." You can't please everyone, but you can be damn sure Ubisoft is trying.

Same example...if you could use planes in the game would you like it? would your response be "just do not use them"? If I do not like something I have every right to say I do not want it inside the game...it is not about using it or now, it is about breaking the supposed inmersion experience they are giving. Besides...I can guarantee they will somehow force people to use this...in a mission, for an achievement or whatever.

I really do not see anyone saying that it would be heartbreaking not to have this in the game while I see people not wanting this inside the game...so, if it is not even relevant for a lot of people and some others do not like them why even have it?

It is really not about choosing or not, it is the about the options that you are giving them to choose from and how there are coherent or not with the main speech for your product.

I could also choose to care or not about the graphics, I could also choose to care or not about the plot, etc...that does not mean I have to settle for any product they throw at my face just because.

Sushiglutton
09-17-2014, 07:13 PM
It is not the point of using it or not...the point is do not give us a whole inmersion speech for everything where you are going to put this kind of stuff.

They could go ahead and put an F14 for you to pilot, so if you do not use it that makes it OK?

People need to stop being so "OK" with whatever they decide to throw at our faces...it is OK to disagree with development choices and voice it, especially when it is something that most people do not like or find irrelevant.


Lol, I don't think you have to worry about lack of criticism, or people not voicing their concerns ;)!


Your F14 example is flawed because that would be a completely irrelevant and anachronistic mechanic for AC (that said there were cheats in AC4 turning every enemy into a rabbit and I had no issues with that at all, did you?). There's nothing wrong with disguises in principal. It's only the way you obtain them in AC:U (namely through "magic") that people don't like. I agree with that. But there are other aspects of the disguises that I do like. For example in some situations walking around in your standard outfit would make no sense. Disguises will also give extra ways to approach missions, which will give more variety.

It would idiotic to remove it now imo.

Kakuzu745
09-17-2014, 08:32 PM
Lol, I don't think you have to worry about lack of criticism, or people not voicing their concerns ;)

Hehe true that ;)


Your F14 example is flawed because that would be a completely irrelevant and anachronistic mechanic for AC

Whch is exactly what magically changing into someone is...


(that said there were cheats in AC4 turning every enemy into a rabbit and I had no issues with that at all, did you?).

That is why I previously proposed that, it would be fine as a cheat.


There's nothing wrong with disguises in principal. It's only the way you obtain them in AC:U (namely through "magic") that people don't like. I agree with that. But there are other aspects of the disguises that I do like. For example in some situations walking around in your standard outfit would make no sense. Disguises will also give extra ways to approach missions, which will give more variety.

Yes, changing costumes is OK, I dont mind that...it is the absurdity of how you are doing it...throw me a closet in the middle of Paris where I can change (a la Liberation) and I would be fine with it.


It would idiotic to remove it now imo.

Remove it or modify it...I do not care, however, in its current state I really hate it and feel that is completely not aligned with the inmersion message they repeatedly try to give us.

RinoTheBouncer
09-17-2014, 08:47 PM
“Don’t like it don’t use it” works when you have extra weapons or outfits, not a method of progression into the game that will probably be required in multiple missions, 1 or 2 at least.

Shahkulu101
09-17-2014, 08:58 PM
It won't be required. It's an optional skill - they aren't going to force you to upgrade certain skills out with the likely tutorial and I highly doubt that the disguise skill will be the forced tutorial upgrade. Probably something rather basic like Assassination to be honest.

I shan't be purchasing the skill until after I've beaten the game just to have the satisfaction of owning every skill.

RinoTheBouncer
09-17-2014, 09:12 PM
It won't be required. It's an optional skill - they aren't going to force you to upgrade certain skills out with the likely tutorial and I highly doubt that the disguise skill will be the forced tutorial upgrade. Probably something rather basic like Assassination to be honest.

I shan't be purchasing the skill until after I've beaten the game just to have the satisfaction of owning every skill.

So we’ll be “purchasing” skills? it feels like they didn’t remove the competitive multiplayer, they integrated it into the games... FML.

Kakuzu745
09-17-2014, 09:13 PM
It won't be required. It's an optional skill - they aren't going to force you to upgrade certain skills out with the likely tutorial and I highly doubt that the disguise skill will be the forced tutorial upgrade. Probably something rather basic like Assassination to be honest.

I shan't be purchasing the skill until after I've beaten the game just to have the satisfaction of owning every skill.

Are you that sure? So far basically everything that it is not cosmetic has been forced to use it somehow.

RinoTheBouncer
09-17-2014, 09:16 PM
Are you that sure? So far basically everything that it is not cosmetic has been forced to use it somehow.

My thoughts exactly.

Shahkulu101
09-17-2014, 09:20 PM
Are you that sure? So far basically everything that it is not cosmetic has been forced to use it somehow.

Skill trees? Ever heard of them?

We purchase skills as we progress through the game - with experience points and not real money, Rino. ;) In Unity, you can choose to eventually aquire each skill.

You can choose to upgrade and progress through the skill tree in any way you want. If you don't like the disguise skill, no need to use it. And you're right about everything that hasn't been cosmetic has been forced to use at one point, but never have we had the option to upgrade whichever specific skills we want at our own pace.

They aren't going to force you to use an optional skill, as that is impossible. Unless the disguise skill is not part of the skill tree and is forced on the player. Which I doubt.

RinoTheBouncer
09-17-2014, 09:25 PM
Skill trees? Ever heard of them?

We purchase skills as we progress through the game - with experience points and not real money, Rino. ;) In Unity, you can choose to eventually aquire each skill.

You can choose to upgrade and progress through the skill tree in any way you want. If you don't like the disguise skill, no need to use it. And you're right about everything that hasn't been cosmetic has been forced to use at one point, but never have we had the option to upgrade whichever specific skills we want at our own pace.

They aren't going to force you to use an optional skill, as that is impossible. Unless the disguise skill is not part of the skill tree and is forced on the player. Which I doubt.

I know it’s not real money. It’s not like I mind it, but in the past games, we didn’t really purchase skills or moves, only weapons and outfits.

Shahkulu101
09-17-2014, 09:28 PM
I know it’s not real money. It’s not like I mind it, but in the past games, we didn’t really purchase skills or moves, only weapons and outfits.

Yeah no worries. Just saying that the disguise skill is more than likely part of the skill tree - in fact it's probably been confirmed but I'm lazy - and that we won't be forced to use it if that's the case. Obviously. :p

I'm surprised you're just hearing if the skill upgrades just now, Rino.

JustPlainQuirky
09-17-2014, 10:18 PM
"don't like don't use" doesn't fix aspects of a game that break continuity and logic.

that's only a proposed solution to the immersion part of the problem.

MnemonicSyntax
09-17-2014, 10:29 PM
Yes I have...it is not easy but it is not as hard as you are trying to make it sound especially considering it is not just two guys coding stuff.

But it's always better to have one guy code one part or specific set of algorithms, not having multiple guys code one aspect of it. The problem isn't the coding itself, it's the parsed strings that link to other algorithms, possible boolean statements that provide the ability or not and how it's accessed. I'm using Java terms because that's what I code in. I've never looked at Ubi's programming before, but I've also never said it would be hard, I said it would probably end up being bad, as one error could throw exceptions and require thousands of lines to be sifted through to find it. It's not necessarily hard, but time consuming for sure, and therefore not worthwhile.





Besides...I can guarantee they will somehow force people to use this...in a mission, for an achievement or whatever.

Not if it's an unlocked skill, which I'm pretty sure it is. It'd be nice if the obvious regression before the "Auto Disguise Skill" would be a manual disguise, in where knocking out and changing clothes was a required Stealth skill to have. Unless you unlock that skill, I doubt there will be any sort of requirement to use it, and even then Watch_Dogs doesn't do this. You unlock a skill in WD and it shows you how to use it, but it doesn't force you to (save for a few minor storyline instances, but I don't see this being one of them.)


I really do not see anyone saying that it would be heartbreaking not to have this in the game while I see people not wanting this inside the game...so, if it is not even relevant for a lot of people and some others do not like them why even have it?

Because the game is about choice. It's about the path you take and the plan of action you execute. This is even more so with Unity. Though you can't see it in the thread, the poll proves that at least some people like it, even if they don't voice their opinion in this thread on it.


It is really not about choosing or not, it is the about the options that you are giving them to choose from and how there are coherent or not with the main speech for your product.

Again, for all we know the prior-to skill of "Auto Disguise" is a manual version of it. For all we know, this could be an Animus Hack or cheat. The video I saw was still in a Beta stage, leaked footage that may or may not come to pass. There were no buttons on the disguise option on the HUD, so unless it's something different, we won't know until we play.



I could also choose to care or not about the graphics, I could also choose to care or not about the plot, etc...that does not mean I have to settle for any product they throw at my face just because.

Then don't settle. Get upset with a leaked video that doesn't even give any details on Disguise other than it just happens. There's a difference between settling though and not letting one instance (of unknown specifics no less) make me upset because of something I saw and speculated about. While we're on the topic, you are free to speculate. Have at it. But there's no need to assume the rest of us who have no problems with Disguise or have a "wait and see attitude" are just taking whatever is shoved in our faces, because that's not always the case.


“Don’t like it don’t use it” works when you have extra weapons or outfits, not a method of progression into the game that will probably be required in multiple missions, 1 or 2 at least.

When it actually becomes necessary to use for one or two missions after being unlocked in what appears to be the skill tree as Shahk mentioned earlier then I'll more than agree. But as it stands it does seem very much like a skill tree set, most likely with Stealth.

GoldenBoy9999
09-17-2014, 11:34 PM
"Don't like don't use" doesn't work because if Ubisoft thinks people like these animus hacks then they'll integrate them further in the next games. They could make more skills that are pure fantasy "because of the animus". We want to play a historical game and not one with things that couldn't happen or the final evolution, set piece animus moments.

MnemonicSyntax
09-17-2014, 11:38 PM
"Don't like don't use" doesn't work because if Ubisoft thinks people like these animus hacks then they'll integrate them further in the next games. They could make more skills that are pure fantasy "because of the animus". We want to play a historical game and not one with things that couldn't happen or the final evolution, set piece animus moments.

Ubisoft listens. That's why we don't have Den Defense anymore.

pacmanate
09-17-2014, 11:42 PM
You guys are hystrical... It's one of several optional skills. That means that the "don't like it, don't use it" argument applies in full.

No it doesn't. We're talking about the fact that it just doesn't make sense in the game world. All the talk of "immersion", increase "realism", then they can make you transform into NPC's to fool other guards?

That makes absolutely zero sense as how would Arno be able to do that IRL?

We're not saying the disguise skill is just crap for the sake of being crap and that we don't like it. We are saying its ridiculous because it simply shouldn't exist in the AC universe as a "thing".

Ureh
09-18-2014, 12:25 AM
I guess it depends on the context of these brotherhood missions.

We're supposedly playing on a game console released by Abstergo, right? If Abstergo were to label these brotherhood missions as the successor to Abstergo Entertainment's ac3/4 multiplayer, then it would make sense that these co-op missions inherited gameplay features from its predecessor, the adversarial mp. These brotherhood missions are basically glorified/expanded Wolfpack missions. It already doesn't make much sense for there to be four Arnos at once, the other three partners somehow magically appear as a random recruit from your perspective. There's a chance that these brohood missions are heavily embellished by Abstergo... cause if you remember in the e3 demo, two players threw out the Marquis. But what if I was playing solo then the cutscene changes only to me right?

Not sure if what I said makes any sense. It doesn't look like we have enough info about the new omegas and helixes and other modern day lore. I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

Kakuzu745
09-18-2014, 04:55 PM
Skill trees? Ever heard of them?

We purchase skills as we progress through the game - with experience points and not real money, Rino. ;) In Unity, you can choose to eventually acquire each skill.

You can choose to upgrade and progress through the skill tree in any way you want. If you don't like the disguise skill, no need to use it. And you're right about everything that hasn't been cosmetic has been forced to use at one point, but never have we had the option to upgrade whichever specific skills we want at our own pace.

They aren't going to force you to use an optional skill, as that is impossible. Unless the disguise skill is not part of the skill tree and is forced on the player. Which I doubt.

It does not matter if it is part of the skill tree or not…even being available is a disgrace. Lets say you go to the weapons shop in Havana and you find there is a Galil Rifle that you can use to kill everyone…buying it or not would also be a choice, the point is this is not even a choice that should be available in an AC game in that century (unless it is a joke weapon you get at the end of the game or a cheat).

Being part of the skill tree does not make it OK.


But it's always better to have one guy code one part or specific set of algorithms, not having multiple guys code one aspect of it. The problem isn't the coding itself, it's the parsed strings that link to other algorithms, possible boolean statements that provide the ability or not and how it's accessed. I'm using Java terms because that's what I code in. I've never looked at Ubi's programming before, but I've also never said it would be hard, I said it would probably end up being bad, as one error could throw exceptions and require thousands of lines to be sifted through to find it. It's not necessarily hard, but time consuming for sure, and therefore not worthwhile.

That we agree, it is absolutely time consuming because you have to review every error that you will get after removing that line. I guess the difference between you and me is that for you it is really not relevant so you wouldn’t waste that time…for me it is relevant to remove it. As I said it completely break immersion.


Not if it's an unlocked skill, which I'm pretty sure it is. It'd be nice if the obvious regression before the "Auto Disguise Skill" would be a manual disguise, in where knocking out and changing clothes was a required Stealth skill to have. Unless you unlock that skill, I doubt there will be any sort of requirement to use it, and even then Watch_Dogs doesn't do this. You unlock a skill in WD and it shows you how to use it, but it doesn't force you to (save for a few minor storyline instances, but I don't see this being one of them.)

They still can do it to “invite” you to replay the game exploring different parts of the skill tree…that is actually really common in games with skill trees.


Because the game is about choice. It's about the path you take and the plan of action you execute. This is even more so with Unity. Though you can't see it in the thread, the poll proves that at least some people like it, even if they don't voice their opinion in this thread on it.

Yes...and I was one of the guys who enjoyed Den Defense. In the end it was removed due to most people not liking it. I could go ahead and say that it was a matter of choice because in the end you don’t need to play all the den defenses, you can choice not to. In the end the dislike for den defense by many outweighed the fact that some of us liked it.


Again, for all we know the prior-to skill of "Auto Disguise" is a manual version of it. For all we know, this could be an Animus Hack or cheat. The video I saw was still in a Beta stage, leaked footage that may or may not come to pass. There were no buttons on the disguise option on the HUD, so unless it's something different, we won't know until we play.

Still, you would have to agree with me that it would not be coherent with the speech of immersion.



Then don't settle. Get upset with a leaked video that doesn't even give any details on Disguise other than it just happens. There's a difference between settling though and not letting one instance (of unknown specifics no less) make me upset because of something I saw and speculated about. While we're on the topic, you are free to speculate. Have at it. But there's no need to assume the rest of us who have no problems with Disguise or have a "wait and see attitude" are just taking whatever is shoved in our faces, because that's not always the case.

That is not my point…my point is if I don’t like something I have every right to voice it and not take the attitude of “ah ok, that is how the game is”. If you are fine with the skill of want to wait and see then it is fine, my point is I don’t have to smile if Ubi does something I do not like.

And yes, we are free to speculate because it is the only source of material we have and I think it is possible to do something now instead of asking to remove the skill two months after the release.


When it actually becomes necessary to use for one or two missions after being unlocked in what appears to be the skill tree as Shahk mentioned earlier then I'll more than agree. But as it stands it does seem very much like a skill tree set, most likely with Stealth.

You are missing the point…it is really not about the skill, it is how it is being implemented in the game. Give me a closet or a bag with clothes in the grass where I could change and I would be OK with it. Point is, if you speak about realism and immersion being key elements in the game you can’t just ignore that and put a skill in the game that is basically doing magic.


Ubisoft listens. That's why we don't have Den Defense anymore.

Yes, Ubisoft listens…that is why we are trying to voice how much we dislike this disguise magic skill.

MnemonicSyntax
09-18-2014, 05:11 PM
I'll continue to have a wait and see attitude. It might be a cheat. It might be a skill tree that's not required to unlock.

Just know that I'm not keen on this either. I think it's terrible and doesn't fit immersion at all. So I'm not supporting it. My entire original point was ONLY that modifying the algorithm for this "Disguise" Skill to be achieved would be easier than flat out removing it, even if it just became unread code in the script.

I'm not going to get upset though unless it's mandatory though.

Hans684
09-18-2014, 07:35 PM
The "immersion" in AC can be seen as a double edged sword, the Animus is the reason for the "magic"(actually an hack) making sense. Since we are reliving the memories with a simulator, the world isn't "real" it's not a game in the FR. It's a game where we relive past events like the FR, it's already over.

r4inm4n1991
09-18-2014, 07:58 PM
It would be more interesting if we had to stun an NPC/Guard/whoever and get their clothes.

Kakuzu745
09-18-2014, 08:16 PM
I'll continue to have a wait and see attitude. It might be a cheat. It might be a skill tree that's not required to unlock.

Just know that I'm not keen on this either. I think it's terrible and doesn't fit immersion at all. So I'm not supporting it. My entire original point was ONLY that modifying the algorithm for this "Disguise" Skill to be achieved would be easier than flat out removing it, even if it just became unread code in the script.

I'm not going to get upset though unless it's mandatory though.

I agree...modify it and make it a cheat would be the best way to go.


The "immersion" in AC can be seen as a double edged sword, the Animus is the reason for the "magic"(actually an hack) making sense. Since we are reliving the memories with a simulator, the world isn't "real" it's not a game in the FR. It's a game where we relive past events like the FR, it's already over.

Then let us forget about hidden blades and crossbows...we have animus hack.

Ureh
09-18-2014, 08:39 PM
Yeah it could function like the past animus hacks. Hacks should only be usable in a mission that we've already completed at least once.