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View Full Version : No more death convos? Thoughts everyone?



RzaRecta357
08-14-2014, 05:52 PM
Howdy! So sorry if old. I was watching the new IGN interviews with Alex on Unity and it sounds like they changed it so they don't chat after atabbing hit you instead see clues as the mans life flashes before his eyes.

It sounds cool and makes more sense I suppose. I hope Arno still has his own RIP though.

So? Am I wrong? I've been a bit slower with keeping up on this one. Thoughts on it if I'm not?

AherasSTRG
08-14-2014, 06:03 PM
You are correct. Arno has the gift of reading people's minds just before they die. So, as the target's life flashes before their eyes, Arno gets the same flashes.

This replaces the conversations the other Assassins used to have when they killed their targets.

I-Like-Pie45
08-14-2014, 06:06 PM
Well EVERYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE but CO-REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY in TWOOOOOOO games were B-A-A-A-D at writing people's DEATHS when hahahahah ASSASSINS KILLED THEM why not scrap them ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLTOGETHER? GOOD GOOD IDEA ALEX A SOON THE FANS WILL BE DANCING CIRCLES 'ROUND YOU CAUSE YOU'RE SO BRILLIANT

Nothing of value to the series lost with their removal.

CSKarasu
08-14-2014, 06:08 PM
That's rather disappointing. I liked the conversations after the assassination.

AherasSTRG
08-14-2014, 06:08 PM
Who are you, these days, Pie? Your avatar seems like a comic book character. The likes of characters the people working at Vertigo Comics produce.

SpiritOfNevaeh
08-14-2014, 06:13 PM
You are correct. Arno has the gift of reading people's minds just before they die. So, as the target's life flashes before their eyes, Arno gets the same flashes.

This replaces the conversations the other Assassins used to have when they killed their targets.

OHHH I SEEE... Seems interesting, although Im gonna miss the old conversations from before.

jayjay275
08-14-2014, 06:17 PM
To be honest, I loved the old conversations after assassinating your target. I'm not going to complain, as I'll see whether the flashbacks were really worth changing over the death conversations. The flashbacks remind me of Sherlock Holmes though, so that is quite good.

JustPlainQuirky
08-14-2014, 06:18 PM
I like flashbacks.

It's more interesting IMO.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
08-14-2014, 06:24 PM
I'll miss the conversations personally. They never really made sense, especially when done in the middle of a crowd but still. They were neat.

Requiescat in pace, post-assassination conversations.

Namikaze_17
08-14-2014, 07:10 PM
For the most part, I always liked the conversations, because at times it would always the pace of the story, and always make you question. Now with Arno "reading minds" it just sounds so unrealistic and somewhat stupid....

But I'll give it a chance though.......... :)

GunnerGalactico
08-14-2014, 07:16 PM
I'm really going to miss those too, I liked listening to a person's last words before they took their last breath. I think flashbacks are going to be interesting, so I'll also give it a chance too.

wvstolzing
08-14-2014, 07:19 PM
The flashbacks look more interesting, and make better sense.

Besides they're supposed to give clues for further missions, which is a cool idea (...that Prince of Persia had in some capacity, I believe).

CSKarasu
08-14-2014, 07:48 PM
The flashbacks look more interesting, and make better sense.

Besides they're supposed to give clues for further missions, which is a cool idea (...that Prince of Persia had in some capacity, I believe).

Making sense should never matter. When a game is too "realistic" within its own realms of believability it becomes restrictive, boring even. Every serious game needs a dose of the surreal.

There was plenty that the frozen time conversations served to convey to the player as well: character motivations, thoughts on how the characters feels about the war, how the character feels about the main character - this is all done in the moment, at that point in time you get to see exactly what the character thinks at the end of their life. I can't see how flashbacks can possibly communicate this effectively. Drama is about action in the moment.

Namikaze_17
08-14-2014, 07:56 PM
Making sense should never matter. When a game is too "realistic" within its own realms of believability it becomes restrictive, boring even. Every serious game needs a dose of the surreal.

There was plenty that the frozen time conversations served to convey to the player as well: character motivations, thoughts on how the characters feels about the war, how the character feels about the main character - this is all done in the moment, at that point in time you get to see exactly what the character thinks at the end of their life. I can't see how flashbacks can possibly communicate this effectively. Drama is about action in the moment.

^ This.

wvstolzing
08-14-2014, 07:56 PM
There was plenty that the frozen time conversations served to convey to the player as well: character motivations, thoughts on how the characters feels about the war, how the character feels about the main character - this is all done in the moment, at that point in time you get to see exactly what the character thinks at the end of their life.

Most of that was banal and predictable. Besides, for certain targets there could still be revealing final conversations (before the last blow, or even in the 'old style', before cutting into the flashback).

Dome500
08-14-2014, 08:04 PM
Yeah I'll definitely miss them. They are one of the very few elements where the writers took the creative freedom of implausibility for the sake of character evolution and it did not bother me at all.

I think the new ones will probably rather serve to make the player build his own opinion of the circumstances rather than the game dictating you the opinion on this matter by showing you what the Assassin (your protagonist) thinks. In this case it might be an evolution. Or it might fail completely.

I'll miss them but I'm open for the "new way", especially since Amancio mentioned that they cut a big part of it in order to not spoil anyone and that they will be longer in the final game.
Also, one has to note that this was an Assassination mission. My assumption is that this was not an Arno (sp only) Mission that has to do with Arnos personal journey but rather a mission that is related to the Brotherhood, maybe even the mission that introduces the "Assassination" Side Missions in the game.

So if this is really a side mission, and looking at the details... I am impressed.

wvstolzing
08-14-2014, 08:21 PM
About 'revealing character motivation, thoughts about x, etc': Part of the banality of the 'white room' sequences is due to a formula they used, almost without exception---'you may have thought X about me, but I am the more sophisticated personality Y, [and we aren't that dissimilar] [and look at yourself, aren't you an X yourself], etc.'. Are we supposed to find it 'ironic', that such revelations can take place at the moment of a violent stabbing?

I think Vieri da Pazzi's death used a good way of making that sort of 'revelation'----when we read the letter to his father afterwards. I hope ACU can incorporate such 'intimate clues' about the 'victim as human being/victim as more than just a target'; be they letters you discover, conversations you can eavesdrop on, etc.

Sushiglutton
08-14-2014, 08:23 PM
I think it's cool they're trying something new. This will give them more freedom to present the victim visually and not just through a short speech. I'm intrigued by the possibilites!

Jexx21
08-14-2014, 08:24 PM
My assumption is that this was not an Arno (sp only) Mission that has to do with Arnos personal journey but rather a mission that is related to the Brotherhood, maybe even the mission that introduces the "Assassination" Side Missions in the game.

So if this is really a side mission, and looking at the details... I am impressed.
It is not a side mission

if I'm correct, it's something like Sequence 3, Mission 2 or something?

I dunno I haven't watched it yet.

Shahkulu101
08-14-2014, 08:27 PM
Lol I read that as death convoys at first and was like "Whaaaa?"

And I will miss them, but they are trying something new and it looks promising. So, we'll see if these are better. If they aren't, I'll be a little irked at their removal because they are a staple of the series I am very fond of.

Jexx21
08-14-2014, 08:37 PM
Lol I read that as death convoys at first and was like "Whaaaa?"

And I will miss them, but they are trying something new and it looks promising. So, we'll see if these are better. If they aren't, I'll be a little irked at their removal because they are a staple of the series I am very fond of.

Didn't you say that you don't care about iconography?

The white room conversations are an aspect of iconography in the way that they're set up and how they happen.

Shahkulu101
08-14-2014, 08:40 PM
Didn't you say that you don't care about iconography?

The white room conversations are an aspect of iconography in the way that they're set up and how they happen.

Yeah but I don't like them just because they are iconic, it's just interesting to hear the perspective of our targets - something really thought provoking. Especially in AC3.

Jexx21
08-14-2014, 08:41 PM
Yeah but I don't like them just because they are iconic, it's just interesting to hear the perspective of our targets - something really thought provoking. Especially in AC3.
The new thing should do that just as well

SixKeys
08-14-2014, 08:50 PM
I like the idea. I've never had a problem with the death convos, but AC is in desperate needs of fresh approaches and this is one of them.

Kakuzu745
08-14-2014, 09:11 PM
I loved conversations in AC1...then it went to hell so right now if they removed them I am OK with it

guardian_titan
08-14-2014, 09:21 PM
I'd rather they just remove the conversations after an assassination and just have everything leading up prior to it than move into these memory flashbacks. I just can't help but think Arno's a memory vampire. Some authors have vampires that can view the memories of the person they're taking blood from. It's also a belief in many cultures where they believe by eating the heart of those they defeated gives them the strength of their enemies. While there's a basis for what Arno can do in other mediums ... frankly, I hate it.

Personally, to me, the white room was iconic to the series and the speeches (even if a bit repetitive) were eloquent at times. You only have a few moments to say your peace. Just doing flashbacks seems lazy. That's like doing an episode for a TV show where the only footage is clips from previous episodes. If you've watched the entire series up to that point, the clip show was a waste of time and just serves to irritate people who were hoping for a real new episode. It's only useful for those that missed episodes here and there or are new to the series. So why the flashbacks in Unity? If Arno's been paying attention to his targets prior to the assassination, flashbacks shouldn't be needed. That just makes me think Arno has a memory span of a goldfish if he needs to see a flashback to remember what the person did to get them on the end of his hidden blade. Either that, or Ubisoft thinks the players have memory spans akin to goldfish.

Namikaze_17
08-14-2014, 09:34 PM
The new thing should do that just as well

I disagree......judging from what we're seen, I don't really feel guilty or Justified for killing him. And this is just me
watching the footage.

SixKeys
08-14-2014, 09:35 PM
I'd rather they just remove the conversations after an assassination and just have everything leading up prior to it than move into these memory flashbacks. I just can't help but think Arno's a memory vampire. Some authors have vampires that can view the memories of the person they're taking blood from. It's also a belief in many cultures where they believe by eating the heart of those they defeated gives them the strength of their enemies. While there's a basis for what Arno can do in other mediums ... frankly, I hate it.

Personally, to me, the white room was iconic to the series and the speeches (even if a bit repetitive) were eloquent at times. You only have a few moments to say your peace. Just doing flashbacks seems lazy. That's like doing an episode for a TV show where the only footage is clips from previous episodes. If you've watched the entire series up to that point, the clip show was a waste of time and just serves to irritate people who were hoping for a real new episode. It's only useful for those that missed episodes here and there or are new to the series. So why the flashbacks in Unity? If Arno's been paying attention to his targets prior to the assassination, flashbacks shouldn't be needed. That just makes me think Arno has a memory span of a goldfish if he needs to see a flashback to remember what the person did to get them on the end of his hidden blade. Either that, or Ubisoft thinks the players have memory spans akin to goldfish.

The flashbacks aren't flashbacks to scenes Arno has already witnessed. They show him bits of the victim's life that show how he got to be in that position or other relevant bits (like potential accomplices to his crimes). Think of it like AC2's target videos.

JustPlainQuirky
08-14-2014, 09:36 PM
I cant wait to stab someone in the face and realize via flashback he was a happy father of 5 children who was asked to make it home for dinner on time.

Namikaze_17
08-14-2014, 09:47 PM
@Mayrice.

#arnoisacoldsob

Fatal-Feit
08-14-2014, 10:02 PM
I cant wait to stab someone in the face and realize via flashback he was a happy father of 5 children who was asked to make it home for dinner on time.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL


I loved conversations in AC1...then it went to hell so right now if they removed them I am OK with it

About 2-3 years ago I would agree, but AC:3's and AC:IV's white rooms made them awesome again. Especially AC:3's. They will be missed.

Hans684
08-14-2014, 10:02 PM
Going to miss them, other than that Arno isn't a "memory vampire". The flashbacks when killing someone is Eagle Vision/Pulse/Sence related. Some thing that again connects to the First Civ. There is no "magic" here. And I like the idea of the flashbacks, they add missing parts to the plot and helps developing the character, unlike the White Room confessions that only helps developing the character.

Jexx21
08-14-2014, 11:18 PM
I disagree......judging from what we're seen, I don't really feel guilty or Justified for killing him. And this is just me
watching the footage.

What's with all the extra dots? An ellipses is just "..."

And they already told us that the scene in the demo wasn't the full scene because they don't want to give away huge plot points.