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View Full Version : Assassin's Creed: Unity - Firearms and Mele



HZD87
08-12-2014, 11:09 PM
After all these videos of the rebalance of the 4 pillars of assassins creed, there is still no mention of the biggist thing that destroys the whole game.

Namely Pistols / Rifles / bombs / smoke !

The game is based around stealth and collecting information on how to plan your next attack, why are guns so prevelant ?
I pretty much did a whole run of AC3 and BF using the pistols.

They really need to severely limit the accuracy and reliability of the weapons to balance this.

1. If the weather is showing rain then any musket / rifle should have only a 40% chance of firing.
2. A fired weapon in wet conditions should have a weakened damage to the target say 50% of total health.
3. A weapon can't be fired if the player has just left water of anysort for say 30seconds.
4. Rifles should only be pick up weapons, from roof top guards / locals who have stolen one.
5. Any equpable pistol should work only within set range and not one shot kill anyone unless a headshot.
6. Discharging a rifle/musket in a populated area should cause all guards to begin an immediate hunt and at least have a medium awearness of the player.

This way you don't remove them you make them hit and miss to use and stop them being a free ride to the end credits.

Force the player to use the assassins skills, if they want to run and gun they can but they will still need basic assassin mele skills to make it out alive.


Make the games hard again ! Playing AC1 was a pain to complete and felt like an achievement now its a rush to cut scene !

m4r-k7
08-12-2014, 11:17 PM
They said you will hardly get any ammo in Game Informer
They said they are very loud and attract guards (who will kill you in large numbers)
The combat is definitely harder which is why they have given you guns (to kill one target from a group in order to reduce the size of them)
You won't have time to reload your gun in combat as people will be attacking you together.

Guns won't ruin the game I don't think.

rickprog
08-12-2014, 11:20 PM
Melee* And they're making combat harder again, so just by firing a gun you'd be partially setting yourself up. Every guard around would notice your presence and if what devs have said is correct (apparently it is), above 4 will be a pretty tough amount of guards to defeat by yourself. Some of the things you said would help at keeping things relatively real, though.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 11:58 PM
Smoke is no longer broken. It only causes them to search for you again but they won't be stunned.

GreySkellig
08-13-2014, 12:31 AM
To be honest, even if Ubisoft weren't going to great lengths to ensure guns aren't a "press to win" scenario, I wouldn't personally be worried. I scarcely ever used guns in AC3 or AC4 (the exception being to clear the deck during a boarding action). They just weren't that fun, until free aim came along at least. And they've never been necessary because the combat was so easy. Now, it seems like they may finally have a place in combat (one carefully defined and limited due to concerns of noise, reload time, and ammunition) and you want them to be nerfed?

LoyalACFan
08-13-2014, 12:37 AM
If you think guns or smoke bombs ruin the game, then don't friggin use them. I never understood this kind of logic, it's like saying "I don't have the self-control to keep from using this tool I don't like, please, Ubi, remove it."

THE_JOKE_KING33
08-13-2014, 12:41 AM
If you think guns or smoke bombs ruin the game, then don't friggin use them. I never understood this kind of logic, it's like saying "I don't have the self-control to keep from using this tool I don't like, please, Ubi, remove it."

Can't agree more with this.

THE_JOKE_KING33
08-13-2014, 12:55 AM
With it being confirmed that we can equip long weapons ( https://upload.facebook.com/AccessTheAnimus/photos/a.368664643234451.1073741825.340276136073302/536547819779465/?type=1 in case someone wants a source) do you think we'll be able to equip a musket/ some kind of long gun (like what Shay and Adewale have)?

I personally hope so! :D

LoyalACFan
08-13-2014, 12:57 AM
Already confirmed, there's a rifle in one of the preorder bonuses ;)

I'll see if I can't find a pic.

Edit-

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYtnfplYu2f-YLLroZ9rZ84KFcMNZMGG-GxjL_CilqGA3gkk2g

THE_JOKE_KING33
08-13-2014, 01:01 AM
Already confirmed, there's a rifle in one of the preorder bonuses ;)

I'll see if I can't find a pic.

Woo! Thank you fellow forum poster!

LoyalACFan
08-13-2014, 01:06 AM
Woo! Thank you fellow forum poster!

You're welcome :) Updated with pic.

SlyTrooper
08-13-2014, 01:27 AM
Can we still aim the guns? It would be annoying if we can't since that was a feature I really wanted.

DumbGamerTag94
08-13-2014, 02:42 AM
Ok I disagree with some of this and like your ideas for others.

1: no not 40% chance of firing. It's actually more like 90%. Rain only lowers the probability of firing by about 10%. I've seen other stats saying only 5-7%. And no that isn't modern cap fired muskets that's standard flintlock muskets. Especially during the time of the French Rev it would be fairly low. Due to the much higher reliability and quality of French gunpowder at that time(largely due to our buddy Antoine Lavassoir from the chemical rev DLC).

In the wort conditions were still looking at a 75% likelihood of the gun still going off when you pull the trigger.

So no realistically rain does not make it impossible to fire muskets(unless your pan is open for an unexplained reason). They were actually very reliable. If you would like to not be able to use a pistol after swimming that is a different story and almost a guaranteed misfire.

2: What does rain have to do with making bullets less deadly? That makes no sense? Are you trying to say it would make it inaccurate? Which also makes no sense at all because it affects the powder(propellant) not the barrel. And a bullet will still kill you with a slightly lighter load of powder. If it's too weak a charge to kill it wouldn't leave the gun at all due to packing the bullet.

3: this point makes sense. I agree in the 18th century you shouldn't be able to fire until dried off.

4: rifles have only been pick up weapons until now with Unity and Rogue. And with their slow reloads they aren't that big a deal if detected.

5: I'm all for stats on the guns! Which I think unity will have since they claim all the weapons have stats. Most likely we will see range, firing rate, reload time, and power as our gun stats for Unity.

6: firing guns in AC has always gained guard attention even back in AC2. It would be nice if NPCs freaked out a little more though.

Much of what you said is things that already exist in AC games. Or are being introduced with Unity. But I strongly disagree with your first two points as they make no sense whatsoever. What you are describing is not factual, not historically accurate, or just irrational. It is a understandable mistake though. As many people are not familiar with firearms at all. Let alone 18th century tech. But in truth their guns were far more reliable than often credited. The myth of poor and unreliable guns that can't hit anything comes actually from the early days of guns as military weapons(the time of Ezio actually). 200+ years before the time of Unity and AC3. By then they had worked out most of the kinks.

Another common misconception is that firing lines were used due to inaccurate weapons. They were actually used for rate of fire reasoning. With the slow reloads of those weapons a soldier couldn't really take on more than one enemy. So if a soldier were alone and were ambushed by 10 he couldn't shoot more than one. But if he had a squad of 10 men with him then it'd be a fair fight. And the firing line is intended to allow continuous fire. The first rank firing while the second reloads etc. It keeps the enemy from catching you with an empty gun. Idk if you know this or not I'm just putting it out there as a fun fact for the forumers to debunk a common misconception.

All and all though I think you have little to fear. Many of your concerns are being addressed with Unity. And those that aren't weren't rational or realistic anyway. AC has had very good representation of period weapons actually( except for reloads being too fast but that's a gameplay vs realism issue)

Ureh
08-13-2014, 03:20 AM
Can we still aim the guns? It would be annoying if we can't since that was a feature I really wanted.

Not sure if ithere is free-aim. Hopefully there is cause we'll be getting our hands on long-range rifles so it would make sense that there would be free-aim instead of completely relying on auto-lock. If the e3 cinema trailer is anything to go by, then it looks like we'll be able to aim the phantom blade and guns from a hanging position too (just like in Uncharted).

rickprog
08-13-2014, 03:38 AM
Can we still aim the guns? It would be annoying if we can't since that was a feature I really wanted.

On the co-op trailer, right before the mob rioting outside the palace breaks the windows, focused seeing is used... As in free aiming but without a weapon and with a slight zoom, so I'd suppose free aiming won't be missing this time around either.

LoyalACFan
08-13-2014, 03:43 AM
Can we still aim the guns? It would be annoying if we can't since that was a feature I really wanted.

If you watch the E3 demo when Arno is scoping out Captain Xavier from the rooftop, you can see him zoom in and a reticle appears onscreen. So yeah, the aiming mechanic is still there, we haven't seen it used with any weapons but it would be kind of silly to assume you could only use the aim feature unarmed. Especially since they're letting us carry muskets now for the first time.

HZD87
08-13-2014, 12:50 PM
With regards to the weapons doing less damage due to wet conditions was to be as an easy way to say not all the powder for the shot was dey and there for has less propellant and can't cause a lethal shot due to lack of power.

Also a 40% chance of them goin in the first place was to make it worth trying the shot, without rendering them totally useless.

Its a game and it has to have some use for the firearms as they are included, but totally discourage the fire two shots run away and reload and take two more mentality


Personally I don't use them unless sync needs me to use them, but for making the game a challenge and work fairly for AI and player you can't have one guy have a one shot kill and then be able to take 3 or 4 shots before in syncing.

If that's the case a shot from an rifile fired by AI should take 90 of the players health away to for a more planned assassin like attack.