PDA

View Full Version : Assassins Creed SUCKS!!!



NondairyGold
08-08-2014, 01:39 AM
I subscribe to this guy's channel, which I find in general to be really interesting. Here's his latest video.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID2CA18YG3Q

It baffles me how people flame on something they haven't even had the decency to explore themselves.What do you guy's think?

JustPlainQuirky
08-08-2014, 01:41 AM
"you guys all know that I don't play video games"

*closes tab*

Sesheenku
08-08-2014, 02:03 AM
Next up, a high school drop out explains to you quantum mechanics and the benefits of this knowledge.

X_xWolverinEx_X
08-08-2014, 02:04 AM
Next up, a high school drop out explains to you quantum mechanics and the benefits of this knowledge.

:D

pacmanate
08-08-2014, 02:04 AM
Was about to slap OP's mother

Acrimonious_Nin
08-08-2014, 02:15 AM
For a guy that did not play the game, he ended up saving himself a bunch of headaches with bugs and glitches...

BUT with that being said, he does not really sound like he cares about this game lol. I think that, this point is clear above all the others. He also loves real history over video game "taught" history >_>

@NonDairyGold...He is not "flaming" he was asked about his opinion by a fan of the series on his channel. And he was not baseless as you seem to take it as. He makes a very important point grander than anything you will ever hear within the AC community...The Assassins and Templars are really boring to see in this fictional depiction of history and "secret wars". What he did leave out was Juno and the instruments of the first will...What you don't know is that he is an instrument himself ;) This is just the beginning of Juno's take over. The propaganda is everywhere. He was clearly "Pro-Gray" here. He was saying it as it is. One should not take things to the extremes of either Assassin nor Templar !

Megas_Doux
08-08-2014, 02:29 AM
Meh!

Amouth
08-08-2014, 02:47 AM
So he only takes a very superficial glance at the game and then completely judges it, then goes on to complain that tbe game is treating templars in a superficial manner?

I didnīt dare to be quite as blunt to him as I would have liked to been, but I took the time to post a long response with links to templar death scenes showing the ambiguity of the two sides, hoping he will take a look at them and hopefully rethink, or at least form a better informed opinion.

Itīs really quite infuriating hearing him complain about a game HE HAS NEVER PLAYED in a medium where noone can answer him in real time.

Namikaze_17
08-08-2014, 06:50 AM
I didn't bother to watch after he said: "I don't play Video games."

Like WTF!?

Sesheenku
08-08-2014, 06:53 AM
I didn't bother to watch after he said: "I don't play Video games."

Like WTF!?

I'm no doctor but I know more than those ******ed doctors. Man I don't even know why they pay those guys so much. They should be paying me that big money. Cause I know more than a doctor about being a doctor.

Yup.

TruFax.

jeordievera
08-08-2014, 07:11 AM
"Off all the subjects I've ever talked about on this channel Assassin's Creed is probably the one I know the least about...
...The Assassins are basicaly this kind of underground hippie group of freedom fighters who fight for justice, freedom, equality and gay marriage."

Ok I am happy that from the little he knows about AC he is clear about for what they stand for :rolleyes:

NekoKera
08-08-2014, 07:19 AM
"We've got to make the Knight's Templar into an evil secret society of reptilian space aliens who are in cahoots with the Illuminati and the Masons to overthrow everyone and infiltrate everybody and run satanic synagogues and, you know, keep hobby lobby from paying for birth control."

Brace yourselves for reptilian space alien indoctrination theory for Assassin's Creed Rogue.

LoyalACFan
08-08-2014, 07:27 AM
"Hey, let's all piss and moan for fifteen minutes about things we know nothing about!"

Sesheenku
08-08-2014, 07:30 AM
The Templars were right guys. Humanity needs to be controlled for peace.

LoyalACFan
08-08-2014, 07:50 AM
Oh Lord... I watched a bit more... Is this guy SERIOUSLY one of those "the media's biased against white Christians" fedora-sporting pseudo-libertarian d-bag morons? I'll give him the fact that the Templar conspiracy theories are cheesy (they are) but god, what a tool.

poptartz20
08-08-2014, 08:30 AM
I'm sorry.. I can't. I even tried to listen to him even after he said he didn't play video games. . . Can we not accept at the end of the day this is a work of FICTION with Facts? and actually.. assassins creed is very rich in historical aspects. This annoyed me. -_-

*punches a pillow*

naumaan
08-08-2014, 08:56 AM
For a guy that did not play the game, he ended up saving himself a bunch of headaches with bugs and glitches...

BUT with that being said, he does not really sound like he cares about this game lol. I think that, this point is clear above all the others. He also loves real history over video game "taught" history >_>

@NonDairyGold...He is not "flaming" he was asked about his opinion by a fan of the series on his channel. And he was not baseless as you seem to take it as. He makes a very important point grander than anything you will ever hear within the AC community...The Assassins and Templars are really boring to see in this fictional depiction of history and "secret wars". What he did leave out was Juno and the instruments of the first will...What you don't know is that he is an instrument himself ;) This is just the beginning of Juno's take over. The propaganda is everywhere. He was clearly "Pro-Gray" here. He was saying it as it is. One should not take things to the extremes of either Assassin nor Templar !

that made my day :D

RinoTheBouncer
08-08-2014, 10:57 AM
In Iraq, we have a saying that says “take the the advice from the head of the bull”. It’s a sarcastic saying that means that when you wanna take an advice or an opinion, you don’t ask an idiot for one. Same here. I’m not saying Assassin’s Creed rocks or sucks, I’m just saying that a person who isn’t even a gamer, let alone never played AC shouldn’t even be allowed to evaluate AC or any video game.

When I saw the thread, I thought it’s a fan criticizing the game, so I entered, but then when I read a few posts, without watching the video, I knew what it’s all about, so I won’t even bothering increasing it’s views and making the owner of the video feel like he/she had done something remarkable.

NondairyGold
08-08-2014, 01:54 PM
For a guy that did not play the game, he ended up saving himself a bunch of headaches with bugs and glitches...

BUT with that being said, he does not really sound like he cares about this game lol. I think that, this point is clear above all the others. He also loves real history over video game "taught" history >_>

@NonDairyGold...He is not "flaming" he was asked about his opinion by a fan of the series on his channel. And he was not baseless as you seem to take it as. He makes a very important point grander than anything you will ever hear within the AC community...The Assassins and Templars are really boring to see in this fictional depiction of history and "secret wars". What he did leave out was Juno and the instruments of the first will...What you don't know is that he is an instrument himself ;) This is just the beginning of Juno's take over. The propaganda is everywhere. He was clearly "Pro-Gray" here. He was saying it as it is. One should not take things to the extremes of either Assassin nor Templar !

If you listened to it, you will find that he is flaming, and I never said he was baseless. I said that he never took the time himself to explore the material. Other than that I'm inclined to agree with you :)

Ceelaris
08-08-2014, 02:01 PM
Goodness. The comments under the video shocked me much more than the video itself (only watched about 1/3 of it because it had so little actual content except for "AC is bs, but that's what I expected, and oh, I'm not biased at all"). o_O So much hate and extremist views in the world...

HiddenKiller612
08-08-2014, 02:41 PM
from others comments, I'm not even going to watch the video.... no point in giving this guy more views...

Dome500
08-08-2014, 03:24 PM
Can you believe this guy?
And on top of this, can you believe those comments below?

Also, who makes a video about a game he hasn't played, especially if he is not playing games anyway.
Also, he is making his own assumptions and prejudices.

While the true history of the Assassins is really cool (I saw about it on Discovery Channel and then started getting interested and searched more of that history), he has to realize this is just a GAME, it's about a fictional story of two fictional orders with extreme and radical views that both have flaws. From the perspective of the one the other order is evil. It's not a story about real history, it's about life and philosophy.

And yes, he is right, the Templars are shown too "evil" in some games, especially Brotherhood and AC2.
We complained about this as well.

But he has to understand that the HISTORY people are talking about in terms of AC is more than just the story and what happened, it's about the atmosphere and feeling of that time, about the culture and architecture, the traditions and the language, the way people lived, that is the historical background people love to soak in and experience. They don't come to see a history lesson. Because while the true history might sometimes be equally interesting this is not always the case, in face sometimes it is just boring because nothing big happened at that time.

What you have to separate is the fiction of the game from the historical background. Assassins Creed is a fictional story with historical background.

Also @ the white Christian comment => I am SO glad I am an atheist.

Also "demonizes western Civilization" =>

1. As far as I know every Ubi game I have played so far was HEAVILY western oriented
2. Western Civilization was equally barbaric and demonic as all other civilizations
3. This guys seems like a western and religious fanatic, no offense

As a relatively NEUTRAL observant (love/hate relationship with AC, no real religious believe, interested in history in general and not in any way racist (as far as I know)) I have to say this guy is heavily biased in his view. If he really wants to know about the CORE of AC and wants to be actually ABLE to properly talk about it he should either play the games or COME here and talk to us.

MasterAssasin84
08-08-2014, 03:31 PM
Opinion is absolutely invalid !!

Why comment on something that you know absolute **** about ?

It would a sensible thread if it was constructive criticism and a worthwhile debate but seriously OP to create a thread based a stupid video which has no credible justification for his views was it really worth it ?

NondairyGold
08-08-2014, 03:52 PM
Opinion is absolutely invalid !!

Why comment on something that you know absolute **** about ?

It would a sensible thread if it was constructive criticism and a worthwhile debate but seriously OP to create a thread based a stupid video which has no credible justification for his views was it really worth it ?

Yes it's worth it, it encourages debate and shows how some people view the world without actually exploring other opinions or beliefs. It also shows how some people comment on said video without actually watching it. If people aren't open to others views they should at least listen to all that is said before making an informed statement, and not shooting from the hip.

HiddenKiller612
08-08-2014, 04:07 PM
Just read the comments on the video... wow... it's like the stupid leading the stupid.....

Namikaze_17
08-08-2014, 04:10 PM
I listened to his opinion......

( 2 minutes In fact) It's just a load of bull when you criticize a game you've never played or know anything about.....not to mention, he's not a gamer period which makes his opinion even more ignorant and invalid.

Then he's going to say: "The Assassin's are like Luke skywalker and the rebels. While the BIG BAD Templars are like the empire."

That may have been true during the AC2/ACB days....but the series has grown so much since then.....now they're justifiable ( AC3) one is a favorite is many....( Haytham) and TWO WOMEN TEMPLARS are either married/in a relationship with an Assassin. ( Altair/Maria)
( Arno/Elise)
And finally, we even got a full game featuring a Templar coming soon so.......

marvelfannumber
08-08-2014, 04:11 PM
Just read the comments on the video... wow... it's like the stupid leading the stupid.....

Hey, that's offensive I commented on that video :(

HiddenKiller612
08-08-2014, 04:12 PM
Hey, that's offensive I commented on that video :(
which one are you? lol

NondairyGold
08-08-2014, 04:14 PM
Yeah, his timing in releasing this video could have been better! What with Unity supposedly uniting the two factions and Rogue exploring the Templar cause from the inside...

marvelfannumber
08-08-2014, 04:14 PM
which one are you? lol

" "I don't play video games" I quit"

Dazz me!

HiddenKiller612
08-08-2014, 04:16 PM
" "I don't play video games" I quit"

Dazz me!

Well consider yourself smarter than the rest...

MasterAssasin84
08-08-2014, 05:10 PM
Yes it's worth it, it encourages debate and shows how some people view the world without actually exploring other opinions or beliefs. It also shows how some people comment on said video without actually watching it. If people aren't open to others views they should at least listen to all that is said before making an informed statement, and not shooting from the hip.



Debate about something you have no knowledge about !! yea makes sense !


If i did not something I would not make myself look fool by commenting on something without having an idea as to what I'm commenting on .

lothario-da-be
08-08-2014, 06:29 PM
Man if this is his opinion on AC I would like to know whathe thinks of "historical" movies like 300.

Sesheenku
08-08-2014, 06:31 PM
I'm gonna figure out if he's just trolling, left a comment

"Especially when you don't even play the video game.

It's the equivalent of trying to tell a doctor with 20 years of experience in the field that you know better even though you're a high school drop out that works in McDonalds.

Otherwise I suppose it's a fairly good troll. So props for that I suppose."

Then I'll probably just do a little trolling. Let's see how pissed they get in their defense of this guy ;P

GunnerGalactico
08-08-2014, 06:33 PM
Never in my life have I listened to so much BS.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-08-2014, 06:53 PM
If you listened to it, you will find that he is flaming, and I never said he was baseless. I said that he never took the time himself to explore the material. Other than that I'm inclined to agree with you :)

Sadly I did watch how he referred to the lizards and the "lefties" assassin attitude which is the craziest thing I heard him say is that, he starts off talking about the game is historically portraying the 2 factions poorly since they worked with each other...yeah...lol At first I thought that the video was just an attack on the AC games from an angry "secret fan", but it seems that he was seriously ignorant of the title...lol

Bastiaen
08-08-2014, 08:55 PM
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPqCMTOFheYoB8F15gMXBdLjMq2k0ut Nl2-wAXQ_2H0-CDiZkYVg

When people talk about things that they know nothing about.

Sesheenku
08-08-2014, 10:33 PM
Is this the real liiiiiiiiiiiiife or is it just fallacies?

Jexx21
08-08-2014, 10:37 PM
i posted this on that video


most of the Templars claim to be athiestic in the game
In the first game, they had an equal amount of targets fighting on the islamic side as the christian side, and they were all Templars.
The first one was an Islamic arms supplier, The second one was a grandmaster of the Knights Teutonic, the third one was an Islamic slaver, the fourth one was a rich Islamic who hosted extravagant parties, the fifth one was a Christian governor of Acre under the command of Richard the Lionhearted, the sixth one was an Islamic governor of Jeruslam who hosted public executions, the seventh one was an Islamic who was trying to burn religious manuscripts, the eight one was a Christian Knight who was paranoid of the Assassins trying to kill him, the ninth one was Robert de Sable, a high ranking Templar knight, and the tenth one was the master of the Assassins himself.

They were all Templars (including the master of the Assassins), and 6 of them (that means most of them) would have historically been Islamic (although most of these targets are not historical), and they were implied to be an athiestic group who didn't believe in a God or Gods.

Acre was dark and filthy because it was just recently sieged and taken over by the Crusaders at the time of the game. If you listen to what the religious criers are saying in the city however, they are from time to time preaching messages of peace, to be medics rather than knights who fought, while the religious criers in Damascus and Jerusalem (the Islamic cities at the time) were always saying to "take arms against our enemies!"

Also, yes, in the second game, a member of the pre-cursor race (not aliens, they were always here on Earth in the lore of the games) was revealed. They look similar to humans because the in-game lore follows the Annunaki theory of humans being created as slaves.

In the more recent games, the Templars are being depicted as less evil as in games such as Assassin's Creed 2 and Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, and even in the first Assassin's Creed. The Assassins aren't really supposed to be the "heroes," the Templars and the Assassins in the games are both supposed to extremist groups and they are supposed to be in several shades of gray, rather than in a black or white grouping.

These games are supposed to teach real history, they're supposed to give a semi-accurate overview of certain historical events and backgrounds, while also creating a whole new story that is not historical in any fashion, and they're supposed to inspire a passion for things such as history and philosophy in others.

Also, the games never say that they're actually trying to be neutral, they just say that it has people from multiple cultures and backgrounds working on the games. The games have many people working on them, I'd say thousands of people, and they seek to represent these people. I would love it if they created a more religiously focused Assassin's Creed game, but of course they don't want to come into any controversy in the news, or perhaps even in their own studios.

wvstolzing
08-08-2014, 10:51 PM
Never in my life have I listened to so much BS.

There's a fundamentalist evangelical on youtube who claims that AC (alongside a few other popular media productions) is part of a big satanist conspiracy.

marvelfannumber
08-08-2014, 11:17 PM
There's a fundamentalist evangelical on youtube who claims that AC (alongside a few other popular media productions) is part of a big satanist conspiracy.

That's relatively tame honestly.

I've talked to a person who thinks that the moon doesn't exist and that "it's just a light".

Acrimonious_Nin
08-08-2014, 11:20 PM
i posted this on that video

OMFG...lmao bravo...that is what I call schooling someone in lore lmao XD...The last time something like this happened about some author talking about suing Ubisoft because they were copying his idea of some machine that travels into the past...Now this youtuber is going to here it with his latest video...but to quote someone...I don't know who said it first, but

"There is no such thing as bad publicity" - Various Celebrities (not that I quote celebs often >_>)

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/there-is-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity.html(this is the general theory of publicity in it's objective sense regardless of positive ore negative views.)

Even though this individual has stated something with what seemed like the intent to actually touch a few hardcore fans...He will inevitably get attention to his channel, which is not really a bad thing as his channel has much to do with history and things of the such. If anything, NonDairyGold's thread could be generating this "propaganda" unintentionally...it's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes...lol...point being that even though some people couldn't understand without having an emotional knee jerk reaction, He still wins in the end...

BUT....that was a very long post on schooling him where he is wrong...I just wonder if he truly never played the game or if that was just a set up to make his "ignorant" image believable...because he did nail the "general concept" on the dot...even though he brushes it off as some "fan" that told him these things....

Anywho...should we all just school him and show him some community spirit ? lmao...just kidding...I can throw out some theories as to why Juno's dominance over his channel is occurring right under his nose -_-


There's a fundamentalist evangelical on youtube who claims that AC (alongside a few other popular media productions) is part of a big satanist conspiracy.

O.O "fundamentalist"...this should be good...do you have a link ? They clearly don't understand that Abstergo is the satanic conspiracy not the game itself lmao...then again Ubisoft && Abstergo are bed fellows according to ACIV:BF lol

wvstolzing
08-08-2014, 11:41 PM
O.O "fundamentalist"...this should be good...do you have a link ? They clearly don't understand that Abstergo is the satanic conspiracy not the game itself lmao...then again Ubisoft && Abstergo are bed fellows according to ACIV:BF lol

It's a guy who (ironically) has a really well made critique of the 'ancient aliens' BS----just search for 'ancient aliens debunked'.

I'm really not willing to locate the exact AC reference, but it was in one of his interviews about 'ancient aliens'. That's when it became obvious to me what his agenda was; then I found his regular channel on youtube which is full of ... interesting ... 'prophetic' ... stuff about 'the rapture' and whatnot.

EmbodyingSeven5
08-09-2014, 12:47 AM
(BEGINING)-I have never played an assassins creed game............ or a game in general................. EVER........... but let me go ahead and lecture you on how this game is bias.

(END) join be for my new video on violent incidents cause by the Mario franchise, which includes the story of a boy who stomped his mothers mushrooms to death

HiddenKiller612
08-09-2014, 12:51 AM
Just another idiot trying to use videogames as a podium for his garbage beliefs.... Nothing is true, his stupidity is regretfully permitted.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-09-2014, 12:56 AM
"Haha, fantastic video. This should piss off a few AC fanboys." - comment from the youtube video

I think that this sums up the video and some of his 'supporters'...This should just be ignored lmao.

and just read the comments...>_> holy cow....lmao...there are a bunch of offended religious people...didn't think it was real...kind of entertaining though...

Sesheenku
08-09-2014, 12:58 AM
Just another idiot trying to use videogames as a podium for his garbage beliefs.... Nothing is true, his stupidity is regretfully permitted.

Man this is sig worthy.

HiddenKiller612
08-09-2014, 12:59 AM
Man this is sig worthy.
:D take it if you wish

Sesheenku
08-09-2014, 02:05 AM
:D take it if you wish

Hell yeah!

Acrimonious_Nin
08-09-2014, 02:12 AM
Lol

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 03:20 AM
Just another idiot trying to use videogames as a podium for his garbage beliefs.... Nothing is true, his stupidity is regretfully permitted.

Did you happen to watch the video? He clearly states that he was not critiquing the gameplay nor the game itself. He was fairly critical of the historical inaccuracies and political bias displayed in the games. He argued that the actual story of the historical Assassins would have been much more interesting than the fictional environment that Ubisoft has created.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 03:24 AM
I didn't bother to watch after he said: "I don't play Video games."

Like WTF!?

He was critiquing the historical inaccuracies and blatant political bias, not the gameplay. He had stated it several times in the intro.

Xstantin
08-09-2014, 03:54 AM
^Historical inaccuracies and blatant political bias shouldn't be an issue because as far as I remember Ubisoft never claimed to be making "history as it was" game. Just look at the series as fiction, problem solved. Also your average history schoolbook will be pretty biased as well.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-09-2014, 04:11 AM
^Historical inaccuracies and blatant political bias shouldn't be an issue because as far as I remember Ubisoft never claimed to be making "history as it was" game. Just look at the series as fiction, problem solved. Also your average history schoolbook will be pretty biased as well.

That just destroys any counter point anyone could throw at anyone talking about history...lol...so true...

tempest224
08-09-2014, 04:19 AM
so...yea...that was a waste of time, ubisoft never claims that any of the events in any of the games follow any real historical timeline which is why it's fun to play,its not like you're playing a textbook. one of the few things that is accurate is if you all already dont know is that when you kill a main baddie they die in the correct time and in the correct place which is kind of a fun tidbit.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 05:01 AM
^Historical inaccuracies and blatant political bias shouldn't be an issue because as far as I remember Ubisoft never claimed to be making "history as it was" game. Just look at the series as fiction, problem solved. Also your average history schoolbook will be pretty biased as well.

Yes,AC is historical fiction, that much is almost definitely certain.

If you watched the video you would realize that the author (for a lack of a better word) was arguing that the actual story of the Hashashins would have been much more interesting. Something I would agree with, I would have much preferred a semi-historical campaign focused on the hashashin's guerrilla campaign against the Seljuk Turks rather than a completely fictionalized account of the Crusades.

LoyalACFan
08-09-2014, 05:02 AM
Did you happen to watch the video? He clearly states that he was not critiquing the gameplay nor the game itself. He was fairly critical of the historical inaccuracies and political bias displayed in the games. He argued that the actual story of the historical Assassins would have been much more interesting than the fictional environment that Ubisoft has created.

He doesn't accurately describe the fictional environment though. He says that the Templars in AC1 are painted as evil colonialist Darth Vaders, which would be clear to anyone who read more than the back of the ****ing box.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 05:06 AM
That just destroys any counter point anyone could throw at anyone talking about history...lol...so true...

How is that 'so true' exactly? Are you actually comparing the historicity of certain authoritative sources on the Crusades to a videogame franchise? A videogame franchise that has a penchant for demonizing a monastic order that existed during the 12th century? If you are, then I am honestly at a loss for words.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 05:10 AM
"He argued that the actual story of the historical Assassins would have been much more interesting than the fictional environment that Ubisoft has created."

Need I say much more? That's all he was arguing.

He was also pretty disgusted by the general historical revisionism that has plagued the series thus far.

Sesheenku
08-09-2014, 05:15 AM
"He argued that the actual story of the historical Assassins would have been much more interesting than the fictional environment that Ubisoft has created."

Need I say much more? That's all he was arguing.

He was also pretty disgusted by the general historical revisionism that has plagued the series thus far.

A foolish thing to complain about seeing as entertainment products nearly ALWAYS take liberties for the sake of entertainment in pretty much every single medium.

It's like whining about blocks with the alphabet on them being too childish in their design. Uh... ****ing duh... They're for toddlers.

LoyalACFan
08-09-2014, 05:31 AM
"He argued that the actual story of the historical Assassins would have been much more interesting than the fictional environment that Ubisoft has created."

Need I say much more? That's all he was arguing.

He was also pretty disgusted by the general historical revisionism that has plagued the series thus far.

That's NOT all he was arguing. He was whining about the game being about the noble Assassins fighting the evil Western invaders, supposedly demonizing white Christians. It really bugs the hell out of me when white male American Christians pretend that the media's out to get them, because it's ****ing not. And had he bothered to investigate the game he was whining about, he'd have discovered that well over half of Altair's targets were Saracens.

I get that he doesn't like historical revisionism, but at least get the facts straight about what you're pissing and moaning about. Nothing's worse than someone complaining about things they don't even bother to educate themselves on. I know it's just a video game, but this is a trend I see all too often and this guy is wholly guilty of it.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 05:56 AM
That's NOT all he was arguing. He was whining about the game being about the noble Assassins fighting the evil Western invaders, supposedly demonizing white Christians. It really bugs the hell out of me when white male American Christians pretend that the media's out to get them, because it's ****ing not. And had he bothered to investigate the game he was whining about, he'd have discovered that well over half of Altair's targets were Saracens.

I get that he doesn't like historical revisionism, but at least get the facts straight about what you're pissing and moaning about. Nothing's worse than someone complaining about things they don't even bother to educate themselves on. I know it's just a video game, but this is a trend I see all too often and this guy is wholly guilty of it.

That would fall under the category of historical revisionism.

Regarding your quip on white males, I find that pretty telling of your character that you would mention something like that. The author never mentioned that at all.

LoyalACFan
08-09-2014, 06:47 AM
That would fall under the category of historical revisionism.

And the specific revision he's talking about is not present in AC1... so... he's complaining about something that's not there.


Regarding your quip on white males, I find that pretty telling of your character that you would mention something like that. The author never mentioned that at all.

Yeah he did. He complains of a supposed anti-white-Western-Christian agenda. Watch it again. The male part is just part of a larger trend I've noticed becoming more pervasive over the last couple of years. Members of the most privileged demographic in the world apparently think the media is out to get them, according to this guy and others who are thinking similarly. I just find that line of thinking to be unbelievably fallacious and troublesome, despite being a member of that same demographic (except for the Christian part). I don't really care if you think that's "telling of my character," that's what he friggin said.

Edit- Check the seven minute mark.

Aphex_Tim
08-09-2014, 07:55 AM
When someone brings up aliens in an argument against Assassin's Creed, it automatically becomes invalid to me as it proves they just didn't pay enough attention.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 03:01 PM
And the specific revision he's talking about is not present in AC1... so... he's complaining about something that's not there.



Yeah he did. He complains of a supposed anti-white-Western-Christian agenda. Watch it again. The male part is just part of a larger trend I've noticed becoming more pervasive over the last couple of years. Members of the most privileged demographic in the world apparently think the media is out to get them, according to this guy and others who are thinking similarly. I just find that line of thinking to be unbelievably fallacious and troublesome, despite being a member of that same demographic (except for the Christian part). I don't really care if you think that's "telling of my character," that's what he friggin said.

Edit- Check the seven minute mark.

'That specific revision', no comment. Do you understand that ubisoft portrayed almost every Western monastic order in the game in an overwhelmingly negative light? They fabricated entire events in an attempt to degrade them (Templars, Hospitallers, etc, etc) all the while glorifying the Hashashins. That my friend, is historical revisionism.

I stand corrected, he did mention it. But to be truthful, he was fairly correct. Like I said earlier, ubisoft attempted to portray the knightly monastic orders in Assassin's creed in an overwhelmingly negative light all the while glorifying the hashashins. You could certainly argue that in western pop culture/media today, when it comes to period pieces on the crusades, Christian crusaders are often the villains (assassins creed, Arn, Kingdom of Heaven, Iron Clad, etc, etc). That much is a fact.

I don't necessarily care if you're part of that same ethnic group (skeptical to be honest), I frankly find your comments obscene and offensive. How you can be so prejudiced against a group of people is honestly pretty disheartening.

Dome500
08-09-2014, 03:08 PM
What I don't get is, why is he complaining about it and ripping it apart. I mean, sure, if all he said would be "hey, I find the real history more interesting" that wouldn't be a problem.

But he starts with the argument that what Ubisoft is telling is not how it REALLY was (of COURSE it is not you *******, it's not supposed to), goes on by saying that the game is painting white Christians as demonic and evil because in the game the Templar order represents the bad (comparable with the Empire in Star Wars, wtf? Not fitting metaphors for the win?) and continues to blame UBISOFT (a western (French) company whit international employees) to have an anti-western POV....

Sorry. But the only valid argument in the video might be that the real history would have been (more) interesting. And even that can be countered by arguing that a game like this would have no future considering the whole conspiracy-atmosphere would not be in there and you couldn't build continuing sequels based on the pure history of the Crusades because the groups represented there are less general and lack the real philosophical concepts the 2 fictional organizations in AC needed to be represented in all eras of history we have visited so far or will visit in the future.


Do you understand that ubisoft portrayed almost every Western monastic order in the game in an overwhelmingly negative light?

Do you know that - regarding real history - about every western (and non-western) monastic order has overwhelmingly negative aspects?

The Templars were by far no holy saints. They went in the crusade seeing everyone who had another religion as bad and treating them like criminals, sometimes worse. They went on the Crusades, raped women, slaughtered men, in the name of their God. Sound familiar? Yeah, pretty much what religious terrorism is today, just the other way around.

Monarchies, Kings, Nobles treated their people bad, horded all the money and left the citizens with as good as nothing. They executed the law the way they saw fit and sometimes used their power to terrorize lands. Kings were not better than Dictators - not always, but most of the time.

No matter if Monarchy, monastic orders or secret organizations, almost all of them had and have blood on their hands, and that is a fact.
Sure, you can see them all in a good light. But in the end it is not how it is.

I'm no historian, sure, but I know a little bit something about history, real history.
AC was never supposed to be pure history. It was supposed to give you a fictional story on a historical background, that background being words, cultures, traditions, landscape, atmosphere. AC is supposed to make you INTERESTED in history, not to accurately re-tell it.
Those 2 orders are fictional, absolutely fictional in AC.

Hell, why do you think a lot of people were so upset with ACIII and Connor leading so many parts of the Revolution? Because before that (with the exception of Brotherhood) the characters were always WITNESSING the historic events, but not LEADING in them or being RESPONSIBLE for a lot of them. Before AC3 it was more about following a completely fictional story, meeting historic characters and witnessing big events, but history took the backseat, it was in the background and it fitted there. AC was telling it's own story while the historical background provided the atmosphere and environments.

That's how AC was meant to be.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 03:19 PM
What I don't get is, why is he complaining about it and ripping it apart. I mean, sure, if all he said would be "hey, I find the real history more interesting" that wouldn't be a problem.

But he starts with the argument that what Ubisoft is telling is not how it REALLY was (of COURSE it is not you *******, it's not supposed to), goes on by saying that the game is painting white Christians as demonic and evil because in the game the Templar order represents the bad (comparable with the Empire in Star Wars, wtf? Not fitting metaphors for the win?) and continues to blame UBISOFT (a western (French) company whit international employees) to have an anti-western POV....

Sorry. But the only valid argument in the video might be that the real history would have been (more) interesting. And even that can be countered by arguing that a game like this would have no future considering the whole conspiracy-atmosphere would not be in there and you couldn't build continuing sequels based on the pure history of the Crusades because the groups represented there are less general and lack the real philosophical concepts the 2 fictional organizations in AC needed to be represented in all eras of history we have visited so far or will visit in the future.

He did say that. Several times over to be exact.

So because they're a 'Western' company (whatever that means), they can't have what some people would deem as anti-Western views? I have no reply for such sentiments. Ubisoft has been very honest about their political views, and they've made no attempt to hide their feelings on the subject (kotaku.com/5693596/is-this-the-years-most-liberal-video-game).

Again, debatable. I still believe that a campaign focused on the struggle against the Seljuk Turks would have been infinitely more interesting than hunting down Templars, many of whom worked alongside the hashashins.

MasterAssasin84
08-09-2014, 04:56 PM
There's a fundamentalist evangelical on youtube who claims that AC (alongside a few other popular media productions) is part of a big satanist conspiracy.



Unreal !!!

The fundamentalist clearly needs their mouths sewn up !

As for the guy that made the video they are now officially the ******* of the AC community ,

I stopped listening when they started going on about Lizards and lefties ... yea the creator needs to take a day off and stick to what he knows rather than wannabe game critic !

His views do not even qualify for a healthy debate .

Acrimonious_Nin
08-09-2014, 05:26 PM
How is that 'so true' exactly? Are you actually comparing the historicity of certain authoritative sources on the Crusades to a videogame franchise? A videogame franchise that has a penchant for demonizing a monastic order that existed during the 12th century? If you are, then I am honestly at a loss for words.

I was not. I was only talking about a post that was comparing history books in schools written by different authors. Which was the point of the post I was replying to...Maybe you should read the post again ? I even took the time to highlight the part where the post says "Also school books....bias...something..." XD

Jexx21
08-09-2014, 06:34 PM
'That specific revision', no comment. Do you understand that ubisoft portrayed almost every Western monastic order in the game in an overwhelmingly negative light? They fabricated entire events in an attempt to degrade them (Templars, Hospitallers, etc, etc) all the while glorifying the Hashashins. That my friend, is historical revisionism.

I stand corrected, he did mention it. But to be truthful, he was fairly correct. Like I said earlier, ubisoft attempted to portray the knightly monastic orders in Assassin's creed in an overwhelmingly negative light all the while glorifying the hashashins. You could certainly argue that in western pop culture/media today, when it comes to period pieces on the crusades, Christian crusaders are often the villains (assassins creed, Arn, Kingdom of Heaven, Iron Clad, etc, etc). That much is a fact.

I don't necessarily care if you're part of that same ethnic group (skeptical to be honest), I frankly find your comments obscene and offensive. How you can be so prejudiced against a group of people is honestly pretty disheartening.

You do realize that in the first Assassin's Creed game, most of your targets were actually Islamic? There were 10 targets. 4 of them were related to Christian monastic orders, 5 of them were on the side of the Saracens, 1 of them was the leader of the Assassins, an islamic sect in history. They portrayed both sides in a fairly negative light in that game, and even the Assassins were implied to be brainwashed by Al Mualim into not thinking about why they were killing the men that they were, that they had to simply trust Al Mualim's word that they must be killed.

Oh, and as a Christian, the Crusades were a terrible thing that shouldn't have happened. Those monastic orders of knights weren't good people.

ACfan443
08-09-2014, 06:49 PM
I stopped watching after he blabbered on about AC1 having a morally black and white premise.

"The Knights Templar are portrayed as evil, Darth Vader equivalents" - lol, gtfo.

I refuse to check the comment section, but surely people are calling him out for this horrendously misinformed nonsense?

Jexx21
08-09-2014, 06:52 PM
Only a few.

I posted something fairly long, and said that the Assassins aren't supposed to be the heroes and the Templars aren't supposed to be the villains.

Xstantin
08-09-2014, 06:57 PM
I was not. I was only talking about a post that was comparing history books in schools written by different authors. Which was the point of the post I was replying to...Maybe you should read the post again ? I even took the time to highlight the part where the post says "Also school books....bias...something..." XD

That was my post. And I'd like to know how exactly one particular view on history can be considered precise, set in stone, immutable or something like that? In a way, AC games actually make a wonderful point concerning that - history is subjective, cliche as it sounds but often it's written by a victor. Speaking about leftist or some other propaganda nonsense, I could pretty much yell the same about Harry Potter for example. Does it really make sense? To some people maybe. Anyway, the whole "historical revisionism is bad" argument is a weak one, no one is claiming it to be true, it's entertainment and most people will take it as such.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 07:12 PM
Do you know that - regarding real history - about every western (and non-western) monastic order has overwhelmingly negative aspects?


That's interesting that you would deem every monastic order to have overwhelmingly negative 'aspects'. I suppose the Augustinians, Benedictines, and Bernardines also have negative 'aspects'.


The Templars were by far no holy saints. They went in the crusade seeing everyone who had another religion as bad and treating them like criminals, sometimes worse. They went on the Crusades, raped women, slaughtered men, in the name of their God. Sound familiar? Yeah, pretty much what religious terrorism is today, just the other way around.


Well, that's certainly interesting. Do you have any sources to support your statement? That being, all Templars were maniacal, wicked, murderers. The fact of the matter is that your remark is completely and entirely factually and historically inaccurate. This is from a single google search...


within a few decades after their beginnings they had transformed, in the eyes of their more zealous contemporaries, into a notoriously tolerant organization that cultivated diplomatic contacts with the Muslim world; worked with Arab architects (which influenced the Gothic architecture seen everywhere in Europe), merchants, and even theologians; and disapproved of slaughtering enemies if they agreed to surrender. All of these points were used against them during the trials against them staged by Philip IV. The persistence of rumors that the Templars were somehow corrupt despite most evidence to the contrary means the Order is, to this day, an example of heroes with really bad publicity.

Maybe later I'll delve into source material and post some of the deeds performed by the Templars during the Crusades that were/are completely evident of their tolerance and respect for Muslims, which would completely contradict what you had said earlier.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 07:16 PM
I was not. I was only talking about a post that was comparing history books in schools written by different authors. Which was the point of the post I was replying to...Maybe you should read the post again ? I even took the time to highlight the part where the post says "Also school books....bias...something..." XD

XDLOL;0 =0OMGLOLWTFZZZ

...

So you're still comparing the bias that exists in historical sources to a video game franchise? I think we're done here.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 07:24 PM
You do realize that in the first Assassin's Creed game, most of your targets were actually Islamic? There were 10 targets. 4 of them were related to Christian monastic orders, 5 of them were on the side of the Saracens, 1 of them was the leader of the Assassins, an islamic sect in history. They portrayed both sides in a fairly negative light in that game, and even the Assassins were implied to be brainwashed by Al Mualim into not thinking about why they were killing the men that they were, that they had to simply trust Al Mualim's word that they must be killed.

Oh, and as a Christian, the Crusades were a terrible thing that shouldn't have happened. Those monastic orders of knights weren't good people.

So you're trying to downplay how negatively the Crusaders were portrayed by talking about the various Saracen targets? What does that do exactly? It doesn't change the fact that Ubisoft glorified a drug addled and highly dangerous terrorist organization all the while denigrating the various Knightly Monastic orders.

So? You think that they weren't good people, what stake does that have in this conversation? Like I said earlier, maybe I'll delve into the sources and post examples of how benevolent and tolerant Christian Crusaders could be. You're remark isn't factually or historically accurate at all.

Xstantin
08-09-2014, 07:25 PM
XDLOL;0 =0OMGLOLWTFZZZ

...

So you're still comparing the bias that exists in historical sources to a video game franchise? I think we're done here.

Isn't it what you were complaining about? Bias? I mean the youtube guy wasn't there when it happened... He got the info from somewhere. To your other post - about maniacal, wicked murderers... Same as before, it's a work of fiction, bad guys tend to do bad things. And as several people pointed out, assassins are not goody-two-shoes guys as well.
I know, OMGLOLWTFZZZ

Acrimonious_Nin
08-09-2014, 07:26 PM
XDLOL;0 =0OMGLOLWTFZZZ

...

So you're still comparing the bias that exists in historical sources to a video game franchise? I think we're done here.

Lmao your misunderstanding is quite amusing ;) Never, was I talking about video game history...but low and behold the "illiterates" flaming one another for misreading a post or two lmao

I agree...we are not understanding each other. You win buddy :) How does that sound ?


Like I said earlier, maybe I'll delve into the sources and post examples of how benevolent and tolerant Christian Crusaders could be. You're remark isn't factually or historically accurate at all.

They were never christian in the AC series, they were more Atheist. They were "Templars". Have you played the games ?

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 07:33 PM
Isn't it what you were complaining about? Bias? I mean the youtube guy wasn't there when it happened... He got the info from somewhere. To your other post - about maniacal, wicked murderers... Same as before, it's a work of fiction, bad guys tend to do bad things. And as several people pointed out, assassins are not goody-two-shoes guys as well.
I know, OMGLOLWTFZZZ

Ok, so you're really comparing the bias that exists within actual historical sources to a videogame franchise. No comment.

Regarding your little quip about the assassins, (a) it made very little sense (b) are the Assassins' portrayed as badly as the Templars, Hospitallers or Teutonic Knights?

Xstantin
08-09-2014, 07:37 PM
@Stockton,
All complaints here come from complaining video game to historical sources. Fascinating.
My little quip about Templars would make sense if you understood something about writing/fiction. Whatever, you're the smartest here, have a medal and move on.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 07:39 PM
I refuse to check the comment section, but surely people are calling him out for this horrendously misinformed nonsense?


No, as a matter of fact tons of people are mocking the die hard fans of the series. Example posted below


Assassin's creed is basically a history of the crusades for libtards.


I played AC1 and it had a great plot, not setting. I never beat it but I gave up on it because I honestly didn't feel like finishing it, in fact I felt guilty that I did. It was VERY anti-Western and anti-Christian. Of course there was the abusive revisionism of the Knights Templar but even the environments were bias. The European side of Palestine was dark, dank, filthy and severally uneducated and if you travel to the islamic side, it's a tropical paradise and a sort of sanctuary of the oppressed muslims. The only time you were called to assassinate anyone on the muslim side is if they aligned themselves with the Knights Templar nothing more.

Also I believe in the second one or third one it is revealed that all deities or prophets are actually aliens of the same race. And of course it is revealed by and "angel" that has the striking resemblance of what us Westerners view an angel to look like.

So they threw the "Coexist" propaganda as well as "all religions lead to God."

Yeah don't buy or play this game it's drips with leftist dogma.
Show less


Haha, fantastic video. This should piss off a few AC fanboys.


Assassin's Creed is so foolish. I've actually seen people who base their sense of history on that game. Brace yourself for the overly defensive responses.


Awesome! Hilarious too. I've played Assassin's Creed 1 & 2 ... and man, does it suck. The gameplay sucks too (just a few button combos and you can parry any attack that comes at you and automatically win). When I was done playing them, I chucked them in the garbage. I kid you not.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-09-2014, 07:41 PM
@StocktonBrawler Who is comparing history to a video game ? I fail to see where you misunderstand the notion of a "video game". It's fictional and can manipulate facts as it wishes the story to be told. History itself, like fiction, is usually in the hands of the victor. So a game, being fictitious, talking about historical "points" and not historical accuracies has the same right to make things up as the victor. But never is the victor nor the fiction(video game) accurate.

I agree that historical sources are just as false as a game. So I agree with you when you say that comparing "actual history" to video games is mad...it's like comparing two fiction novels to each other ;)

Jexx21
08-09-2014, 07:41 PM
That's because most of the people viewing that video are fans of that youtube channel.

Anyway, I posted on that video and I felt like my response was fairly respectful, unlike the comments that you quoted above.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 07:42 PM
@Stockton,
All complaints here come from complaining video game to historical sources. Fascinating.
My little quip about Templars would make sense if you understood something about writing/fiction. Whatever, you're the smartest here, have a medal and move on.

If I understood something about writing/fiction. I'm going to let that sit for a while.












Ok, there's a difference between historical fiction and what I'd call historical fantasy. AC most definitely falls into the latter category, whole swaths of it's story line is fabricated, something I find to be rather unacceptable.

Witty aren't we, have a medal and move on. Not exactly sure what that means.

Sesheenku
08-09-2014, 07:46 PM
Ok, so you're really comparing the bias that exists within actual historical sources to a videogame franchise. No comment.

Regarding your little quip about the assassins, (a) it made very little sense (b) are the Assassins' portrayed as badly as the Templars, Hospitallers or Teutonic Knights?

If you use your brain yes...

Ezio kills various civilians without any regard for their safety various times just to get to some Templars. In AC1 they admit themselves the irony that they want peace but killing is their means, in AC3 they show how much damage the assassins can do, as they are the cause in the game for the native americans suffering for the foreseeable future.

If you're not intelligent enough to see the hypocrisies and failures of both orders than that's entirely your fault. Oh btw they're both atheist. They stopped believing in god because in the game the pieces of eden provide proof that there is no god.

If anything the game shows that the assassins stop damaging and negative acts by committing more negative acts.

Are you a troll or just blind?

Jexx21
08-09-2014, 07:46 PM
Yes, AC is obviously historical fantasy, it has been from the start.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 07:47 PM
@StocktonBrawler Who is comparing history to a video game ? I fail to see where you misunderstand the notion of a "video game". It's fictional and can manipulate facts as it wishes the story to be told. History itself, like fiction, is usually in the hands of the victor. So a game, being fictitious, talking about historical "points" and not historical accuracies has the same right to make things up as the victor. But never is the victor nor the fiction(video game) accurate.

I agree that historical sources are just as false as a game. So I agree with you when you say that comparing "actual history" to video games is mad...it's like comparing to fiction novels two each other ;)

You are aware that we have first hand sources that were written by both Christians and Muslims that date back to the Crusades, yeah? So to say that the history of the Crusades has somehow been written by the victor, well, that's not entirely accurate. As a matter of fact, that's not accurate at all. Not really sure what you're arguing after that, I'd appreciate it if you could be a little clearer in your posts.

'Historical sources are just as false a game'............................................. ...............................................Why would you ever come to that conclusion? Before you reply, please find an original historical source that concerns either the first, second or third crusade and dispute it's historicity, and compare it to Assassin's creed.

Jexx21
08-09-2014, 07:48 PM
If you're not intelligent enough to see the hypocrisies and failures of both orders than that's entirely your fault. Oh btw they're both atheist. They stopped believing in god because in the game the pieces of eden provide proof that there is no god.


Actually only the Templars are athiests. The Assassins accept people from all religions. Connor, for example, was probably fairly spiritual.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 07:50 PM
If you use your brain yes...

Ezio kills various civilians without any regard for their safety various times just to get to some Templars. In AC1 they admit themselves the irony that they want peace but killing is their means, in AC3 they show how much damage the assassins can do, as they are the cause in the game for the native americans suffering for the foreseeable future.

If you're not intelligent enough to see the hypocrisies and failures of both orders than that's entirely your fault. Oh btw they're both atheist. They stopped believing in god because in the game the pieces of eden provide proof that there is no god.

Are you a troll or just blind?

What are you talking about? Do you even understanding my gripe with the game? It's that there is an evident political bias present in the series, and the developers are notorious for rewriting historical events to suit their political views. I'm not talking about the orders, or their worldviews, or the universe. I'm discussing the historical revisionism that Ubisoft is quite fond of.

Sesheenku
08-09-2014, 07:51 PM
Actually only the Templars are athiests. The Assassins accept people from all religions. Connor, for example, was probably fairly spiritual.

You're joking right? You do realize the point of their creed is to "free peoples minds"? Ezio says himself in sequence 13 not to get your beliefs from people OR books and to make your own path.

They're both atheists. Connor by now knows his "spirits" are just the first civilization people, pretty sure Achilles would have told him that especially since their first conversation includes him saying these "spirits" of yours to him .

Sesheenku
08-09-2014, 07:53 PM
What are you talking about? Do you even understanding my gripe with the game? It's that there is an evident political bias present in the series, and the developers are notorious for rewriting historical events to suit their political views. I'm not talking about the orders, or their worldviews, or the universe. I'm discussing the historical revisionism that Ubisoft is quite fond of.

Man you can't even remember the **** you post?

"Regarding your little quip about the assassins, (a) it made very little sense (b) are the Assassins' portrayed as badly as the Templars, Hospitallers or Teutonic Knights?"

Finally why in the flying **** are you griping about something so insignificant and stupid?

It's like getting mad at a final fantasy game for not being more realistic. It's a god damned game. FICTIONAL ON PURPOSE WITH A MERE TOUCH OF REAL HISTORY.


IT WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE ANYTHING BUT FICTIONAL.

CAPICHE? ENTIENDE? UNDERSTAND? GOT IT? ARE WE CLEAR?

Mr_Shade
08-09-2014, 07:55 PM
I suggest people calm down a little..

Xstantin
08-09-2014, 07:56 PM
I think it's fairly pointless to try and talk to you tbh. Fiction, fantasy... who cares. You're bent on trying to prove that your point of view is the only right one. Pretty limiting. Honestly, it seems like you're just trolling trying to cover it with dude-i'm-so-deep-intellectual-crap.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 08:02 PM
Man you can't even remember the **** you post?

"Regarding your little quip about the assassins, (a) it made very little sense (b) are the Assassins' portrayed as badly as the Templars, Hospitallers or Teutonic Knights?"

Finally why in the flying **** are you griping about something so insignificant and stupid?

It's like getting mad at a final fantasy game for not being more realistic. It's a god damned game. FICTIONAL ON PURPOSE WITH A MERE TOUCH OF REAL HISTORY.


IT WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE ANYTHING BUT FICTIONAL.

CAPICHE? ENTIENDE? UNDERSTAND? GOT IT? ARE WE CLEAR?


So you're admitting that it is both historically and factually inaccurate? If so, then I understand.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 08:03 PM
I think it's fairly pointless to try and talk to you tbh. Fiction, fantasy... who cares. You're bent on trying to prove that your point of view is the only right one. Pretty limiting. Honestly, it seems like you're just trolling trying to cover it with dude-i'm-so-deep-intellectual-crap.

No, I enjoy the gameplay but I do admit that the story line is mere fantasy and often politically driven.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-09-2014, 08:06 PM
You are aware that we have first hand sources that were written by both Christians and Muslims that date back to the Crusades, yeah? So to say that the history of the Crusades has somehow been written by the victor, well, that's not entirely accurate. As a matter of fact, that's not accurate at all. Not really sure what you're arguing after that, I'd appreciate it if you could be a little clearer in your posts.

'Historical sources are just as false a game'............................................. ...............................................Why would you ever come to that conclusion? Before you reply, please find an original historical source that concerns either the first, second or third crusade and dispute it's historicity, and compare it to Assassin's creed.

If we can define "Victory" as "survival of a culture/people/individual" then yes. The "victor" is the one that survive such events in human history. Because both sides have a story to tell, only shows that both sides have survived long enough to write their own "tales" about their survival. So both are victors in their own right. I don't understand how you could not see this as accurate ? Throughout my argument I only point out that the "victor" writing has the power of his/her own creativity to detail certain parts of "their" history in their own way. Just look at the history of the Ottomans fighting against the Byzantines...both sides have a slightly different take as to who was truly the most "victorious" respective to the "side" in question. :) maybe you should study about historical accuracies more ?

I know "we have first hand sources". It's called the Animus buddy. We all use it to study history.

"Historical sources are just as false as a game" because...they lie sometimes...somethings are lost through translation. And since "Falsehood" is the state of not being aligned with "reality/truth" then it is safe to say that if history is lost through time/translation/ or fictions of the writer, then they history itself is "false". Meaning that it is not true...I hope that is clear and simple for you to understand :) So I did my research about History how about you show me how history is actually "true" or real...All we do know...is that humans fight each other....a lot...lol

marvelfannumber
08-09-2014, 08:07 PM
So you're admitting that it is both historically and factually inaccurate? If so, then I understand.

Who in their right mind thinks AC is historically/factually accurate?

It even says it is a work of fiction the minute you boot every game up.

Sesheenku
08-09-2014, 08:07 PM
So you're admitting that it is both historically and factually inaccurate? If so, then I understand.

Obviously it is. I just said it's a ridiculous thing to complain about. Entertainment never takes reality fully into account because in pretty much every case it can be bent to make something more interesting.

Just like what they do with horror movies "based on true stories" they often bare the most miniscule resemblance to the source material because it isn't quite frightening enough the way it is unless you experience the actual event in person and since that is impossible, they take liberties to create a more horrific story.

It's entertainment, fiction should be a given even in the most realistic by the books stories.

LoyalACFan
08-09-2014, 08:09 PM
'That specific revision', no comment. Do you understand that ubisoft portrayed almost every Western monastic order in the game in an overwhelmingly negative light? They fabricated entire events in an attempt to degrade them (Templars, Hospitallers, etc, etc) all the while glorifying the Hashashins. That my friend, is historical revisionism.

I stand corrected, he did mention it. But to be truthful, he was fairly correct. Like I said earlier, ubisoft attempted to portray the knightly monastic orders in Assassin's creed in an overwhelmingly negative light all the while glorifying the hashashins. You could certainly argue that in western pop culture/media today, when it comes to period pieces on the crusades, Christian crusaders are often the villains (assassins creed, Arn, Kingdom of Heaven, Iron Clad, etc, etc). That much is a fact.

I don't necessarily care if you're part of that same ethnic group (skeptical to be honest), I frankly find your comments obscene and offensive. How you can be so prejudiced against a group of people is honestly pretty disheartening.

I'm not prejudiced against them, as I said I'm part of the same group except for the Christian part (I'm Jewish but half my family is Christian, so no, I don't bear any kind of hate toward them). Dunno if you believe me or not, but it doesn't really matter. I guess this conversation has hit a brick wall if you think the crusaders were the "bad guys" of AC1. As I said before, over half of Altair's targets were Saracens, including the final boss Al Mualim. He actually found himself allied with Richard the Lionheart at the Battle of Arsuf, remember? I've seen Kingdom of Heaven and can wholly dismiss your claim that the Crusaders were demonized in that film, hell, Orlando Bloom played the romantic lead trying to fight off Saladin at Jerusalem. If anything, it was a relatively neutral depiction that slightly favored the view of the Christians. I've never heard of Iron Clad or Arn, but a quick search revealed that the main characters in both of those films were Crusaders as well, so I'm skeptical of the claim that the Templars were made out to be villains in those films too, but as I said I've never seen them so I can't speak one way or the other.

I'm not arguing that Assassin's Creed is historically accurate, nor do I particularly want it to be so. If the creator of this video was solely criticizing the misrepresentation of the actual Ismailis, I wouldn't have any problem with that, because it's true. But he's railing against the game for supposedly being anti-white-Christian, which couldn't be farther from the truth, and it's grasping at straws of discrimination that just aren't there. Altair wasn't a Muslim, and he didn't fight anyone just because they were a white Christian.

wvstolzing
08-09-2014, 08:09 PM
Who in their right mind thinks AC is historically/factually accurate?

There exist people who think Star Wars is based on real events.

Yes, you read that right. Though they aren't people in their right mind.

Anyway, go on with the debate.

StocktonBrawler
08-09-2014, 08:09 PM
Obviously it is. I just said it's a ridiculous thing to complain about. Entertainment never takes reality fully into account because in pretty much every case it can be bent to make something more interesting.

Just like what they do with horror movies "based on true stories" they often bare the most miniscule resemblance to the source material because it isn't quite frightening enough the way it is unless you experience the actual event in person and since that is impossible, they take liberties to create a more horrific story.

It's entertainment, fiction should be a given even in the most realistic by the books stories.

Yeah and some people have the right to say that AC sucks because it's so historically inaccurate, like the guy in the OP's vids.

Assassin_M
08-09-2014, 08:10 PM
often politically driven.
Lol no

Xstantin
08-09-2014, 08:11 PM
Who in their right mind thinks AC is historically/factually accurate?

It even says it is a work of fiction the minute you boot every game up.

Are you telling us Ezio didn't fistfight the Pope?

http://f2.thejournal.ie/media/2014/05/emrknjp.gif

Jexx21
08-09-2014, 08:24 PM
You're joking right? You do realize the point of their creed is to "free peoples minds"? Ezio says himself in sequence 13 not to get your beliefs from people OR books and to make your own path.

They're both atheists. Connor by now knows his "spirits" are just the first civilization people, pretty sure Achilles would have told him that especially since their first conversation includes him saying these "spirits" of yours to him .
No, I'm not joking.

The Templars probably have a few religious people among them as well. The Assassins welcome people from all faiths, despite how certain members may feel about those faiths. And making your own path means gathering information. If you gather information on multiple ideologies and religions, and decide to follow one, it's still your own path.

Assassin_M
08-09-2014, 08:26 PM
You're joking right? You do realize the point of their creed is to "free peoples minds"? Ezio says himself in sequence 13 not to get your beliefs from people OR books and to make your own path.

They're both atheists. Connor by now knows his "spirits" are just the first civilization people, pretty sure Achilles would have told him that especially since their first conversation includes him saying these "spirits" of yours to him .
I don't see how irreligion and atheism is "freeing someone's mind" and not following books nor people...

Jexx21
08-09-2014, 08:30 PM
Even with TWCB and the first civilization artifacts, it's still possible that a God could exist in that world.

Fatal-Feit
08-09-2014, 09:10 PM
Keep in mind that Assassins are all hypocrites. All of them.

Sesheenku
08-09-2014, 10:33 PM
Yeah and some people have the right to say that AC sucks because it's so historically inaccurate, like the guy in the OP's vids.

You also have the right to be berated for saying something stupid.

It's like if I complained that Harry Potter is in the fantasy genre! I want a realistic Harry Potter damnit with no magic and just boarding school drama!

Stupid isn't it? If you don't like the genre then don't read, play or watch. So simple. So simple it hurts.

I don't like whiny soap operas so I don't watch them. I don't like fap fantasies like Twilight so I don't watch them, cause I hate the genre.


I don't see how irreligion and atheism is "freeing someone's mind" and not following books nor people...

Let me explain without getting into the real world too much here.

Essentially religion is seen as a bunch of rules, don't do this, don't do that, many of them are sensible and most of them have some sense but many of them are harmful as well or just pointless to most atheists.

It is essentially a book about control, make the follower experience fear in order to get them to follow a certain way of life.

Freeing your minds is the opposite of following arbitrary rules that arise from divinity and not reason.

Altair says it himself in AC1 "that laws rise not from divinity but reason".

I'm Christian and could easily argue against such a train of though but I'm pointing out how those outside of religion would view it.

masterfenix2009
08-09-2014, 10:46 PM
You can still be accepted into the Assassins if you are religious though. It seems to be a lot harder to join the Templars if you are religious .

Assassin_M
08-09-2014, 10:51 PM
Essentially religion is seen as a bunch of rules, don't do this, don't do that, many of them are sensible and most of them have some sense but many of them are harmful as well or just pointless to most atheists.
To Atheists--Religion is seen as a bunch of rules that are harmful or pointless to Atheists, yes...you're right.


It is essentially a book about control, make the follower experience fear in order to get them to follow a certain way of life.
Fear? isn't reward and punishment everywhere? passive ones such as "don't eat too much meat or fill your body with harmful things or you'll die painfully and early"? or direct ones such as "Follow the law or you'll be punished"? or more arbitrary ones such as "You're supposed to look as pretty as this fake girl on TV or else you're ugly and wont ever have a boyfriend"? or how about this one "YOU must have your first kiss and lose your virginity before high school, if you don't, you're a failure" This isn't exclusive to religion whatsoever. oh look at me, I stopped doing what mommy and daddy told me to do. jolly for me.


Freeing your minds is the opposite of following arbitrary rules that arise from divinity and not reason.
I'm sorry but no. That's so convenient, atheists follow laws same as I do, divinity and reason are COMPLETELY subjective. the divine for them is nonsensical, so it is factually, well...no. I'm pretty sure I have a free mind and they're no "freer" than I am in every regard.


Altair says it himself in AC1 "that laws rise not from divinity but reason".
Altair also said that they seek to free minds but require rules and a master to subjugate to, so HE HIMSELF admitted to laws and rules being necessary, no matter how ironic they can be.


I'm Christian and could easily argue against such a train of though but I'm pointing out how those outside of religion would view it.
Sure and I agree, that's how atheists view this and i'v always seen it as dumb and hypocritical.

Sesheenku
08-09-2014, 11:09 PM
To Atheists--Religion is seen as a bunch of rules that are harmful or pointless to Atheists, yes...you're right.



Fear? isn't reward and punishment everywhere? passive ones such as "don't eat too much meat or fill your body with harmful things or you'll die painfully and early"? or direct ones such as "Follow the law or you'll be punished"? or more arbitrary ones such as "You're supposed to look as pretty as this fake girl on TV or else you're ugly and wont ever have a boyfriend"? or how about this one "YOU must have your first kiss and lose your virginity before high school, if you don't, you're a failure" This isn't exclusive to religion whatsoever. oh look at me, I stopped doing what mommy and daddy told me to do. jolly for me.

This is true but it's different from religions most infamous form of punishment, which as you know in most religions is death to the sinner and eternal torture. It's different because the punishment is enacted by the god of that religion as a result of your evil which depending on the religion "evil" can be something simple and brutal, like not killing people of other religions.

I think they view it different because of that.



I'm sorry but no. That's so convenient, atheists follow laws same as I do, divinity and reason are COMPLETELY subjective. the divine for them is nonsensical, so it is factually, well...no. I'm pretty sure I have a free mind and they're no "freer" than I am in every regard.

Well Christianity says no sex before marriage and no unclean language for example, rules that they most certainly believe are arbitrary and pointless. Naturally they believe we are enslaved, living lives lesser than theirs because we have to follow extra rules besides the laws of our countries and our own morals.

Is divinity subjective here? I'm quite sure he was referring directly to religious laws here which often times are believed and followed due to being a follower of the religion and not because the follower finds the law reasonable.


Altair also said that they seek to free minds but require rules and a master to subjugate to, so HE HIMSELF admitted to laws and rules being necessary, no matter how ironic they can be.

Laws that arise from reason yes but not divinity.



Sure and I agree, that's how atheists view this and i'v always seen it as dumb and hypocritical.

There will never be an end to it as not even we have all the answers and thus the Athesits will always be left wanting in debates and it's understandable.

Assassin_M
08-09-2014, 11:19 PM
This is true but it's different from religions most infamous form of punishment, which as you know in most religions is death to the sinner and eternal torture. It's different because the punishment is enacted by the god of that religion as a result of your evil which depending on the religion "evil" can be something simple and brutal, like not killing people of other religions.
It makes no difference, capital punishment is not rooted in Religion...death has been given out by various irreligious entities and individuals across history. I fail to see how eternal torture is different from any other punishment...life as a social outcast due to not following beauty trends can be eternal torture for someone..They're deluding themselves.


Well Christianity says no sex before marriage and no unclean language for example, rules that they most certainly believe are arbitrary and pointless. Naturally they believe we are enslaved, living lives lesser than theirs because we have to follow extra rules besides the laws of our countries and our own morals.
weeeeeelll, they're wrong.


Is divinity subjective here? I'm quite sure he was referring directly to religious laws here which often times are believed and followed due to being a follower of the religion and not because the follower finds the law reasonable.
I'm not talking about what Altair referred to, i'm talking about divinity in general but in that case, divinity CAN be reasonable.



Laws that arise from reason yes but not divinity.
how is having rules as constricting and subjugating to a leader any more reasonable that believing in a religion and god? if that's where we're going, they're both the same thing.



There will never be an end to it as not even we have all the answers and thus the Athesits will always be left wanting in debates and it's understandable.
Meh

Sesheenku
08-10-2014, 12:09 AM
It makes no difference, capital punishment is not rooted in Religion...death has been given out by various irreligious entities and individuals across history. I fail to see how eternal torture is different from any other punishment...life as a social outcast due to not following beauty trends can be eternal torture for someone..They're deluding themselves.

That's a good one.. I suppose I can't argue that, the punishment is either given by the creator or your own species...


weeeeeelll, they're wrong.

Didn't say they weren't.



I'm not talking about what Altair referred to, i'm talking about divinity in general but in that case, divinity CAN be reasonable.

The assassins want people to think for themselves though, they want them to come to these reasonable conclusions on their own don't they?


how is having rules as constricting and subjugating to a leader any more reasonable that believing in a religion and god? if that's where we're going, they're both the same thing.

He did after all state the irony of that, I don't think it approves of divinity just because of it though.

Assassin_M
08-10-2014, 01:15 AM
That's a good one.. I suppose I can't argue that, the punishment is either given by the creator or your own species
Exactly, it's just this "ooooh, i broke away from mommy and daddy" hypocrisy that infuriates me.


The assassins want people to think for themselves though, they want them to come to these reasonable conclusions on their own don't they?
I would want nothing more than this...people thinking for themselves and reaching conclusions on their own, without ANYONE monopolizing what a "free minded thinker" is or could be.


He did after all state the irony of that, I don't think it approves of divinity just because of it though.
The thing is, though, Altair, as an Atheist, views divinity as unreasonable when it can very well be.

Sesheenku
08-10-2014, 06:00 AM
Exactly, it's just this "ooooh, i broke away from mommy and daddy" hypocrisy that infuriates me.

To be fair I'm sure some of them do that but I never deal in absolutes.


I would want nothing more than this...people thinking for themselves and reaching conclusions on their own, without ANYONE monopolizing what a "free minded thinker" is or could be.

As longs as humans live in their current state they'll consolidate everything into simplified categories. Unfortunately many people are content to follow what's easy rather than find an answer themselves.


The thing is, though, Altair, as an Atheist, views divinity as unreasonable when it can very well be.

Indeed, that was my point essentially. I may not agree but that's simply the way it's viewed in the game.

Dome500
08-10-2014, 03:12 PM
That's interesting that you would deem every monastic order to have overwhelmingly negative 'aspects'. I suppose the Augustinians, Benedictines, and Bernardines also have negative 'aspects'.

Sorry, I wasn't expressing myself properly: I meant every monastic order that was represented in AC in a way so far.
I apologize for not clarifying that.


That being, all Templars were maniacal, wicked, murderers.

Okay:

1. Do you have a source for the opposite? That all Templars were such good people.
2. A lot of them surely were
3. Then there is the people among them who think they do all this for a greater cause, but in the end all they do is trying to justify their wrong deeds

I don't say the "REAL Assassins" were better. I'm saying:

1. The Templar Order in AC is a fictional Order based on the name and concept of a true one
2. The Crusades were horrible and the Templars contributed a lot to it
3. A lot of Templars were doing a lot of cruel things, and with that they are not better than the normal soldier or bandit during that time, they just thought they were better