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SHADOWGARVIN
07-31-2014, 11:10 PM
New interview with Alex Amancio.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9ZtcVUCLmQ

JustPlainQuirky
07-31-2014, 11:17 PM
Awesome. *watches* I expect infinite seamlessness

Edit:

"catch 22-choice between love and duty" I'm guessing the big 'choice' at the end of the game Amancio was referring to a couple weeks back was whether to betray the brotherhood or save Elise?

Wait? I become an assassin? Oh ho ho ho ho. No.

So the co-op will be the 'party with historical figures' moment and the main campaign will not. Good.

11 co-op missions feels like a little for a game advertised around co-op.

ability to affect the crowd is nice

SHADOWGARVIN
07-31-2014, 11:19 PM
There is a lot of new information.

There are 11 co-op missions in total. They will take 30-40 minutes to complete. Difficulty is 1-5.

Edit:

Could be.

JustPlainQuirky
07-31-2014, 11:34 PM
Overall a good chunk of information.

Not liking the implied "do i choose elise or the brotherhood" concept, but at least Arno and Elise seem to be likable characters.

SHADOWGARVIN
07-31-2014, 11:37 PM
Overall a good chunk of information.

Not liking the implied "do i choose love for elise or the brotherhood" concept, but at least Arno and Elise seem to be likable characters.

Some interesting new information. It would be better if you could actually make the choice yourself, but unfortunately the story will be predetermined.

JustPlainQuirky
07-31-2014, 11:39 PM
No Amancio said that you will be able to make the choice.

I was confused too. Perhaps there is a glitch in the animus where the true historical choice is unable to be retracted from memory?

SHADOWGARVIN
07-31-2014, 11:41 PM
No Amancio said that you will be able to make the choice.

I was confused too. Perhaps there is a glitch in the animus where the historical choice is unable to be retracted from memory?

That would be better. If that's the case, maybe there will be alternate endings, or different versions of the story?

m4r-k7
07-31-2014, 11:45 PM
I have a feeling we will not be able to unlock every skill in the game. I reckon we will have to choose what we want so that each person in co-op has different skills. I want to know more about customization like if we can dye our outfits, what type of look can we get in the game, are there legacy outfits, what happens if we just keep Arno's robes - I wonder if there is an upgrade system

SHADOWGARVIN
07-31-2014, 11:48 PM
I have a feeling we will not be able to unlock every skill in the game. I reckon we will have to choose what we want so that each person in co-op has different skills

I had the same feeling. I think you have to choose a specific build. I hope i'm wrong though. I would prefer it if Arno could truly become a master assassin and not only part master assassin.

Jexx21
07-31-2014, 11:49 PM
I have a feeling we will not be able to unlock every skill in the game. I reckon we will have to choose what we want so that each person in co-op has different skills. I want to know more about customization like if we can dye our outfits, what type of look can we get in the game, are there legacy outfits, what happens if we just keep Arno's robes - I wonder if there is an upgrade system

I hope to god not. They didn't do that with Far Cry 3 or Watch Dogs, so I hope it's the same case here.

Also, 11 co-op missions sounds good. They're probably all assassination missions and that's more than most of the games had in assassination missions for singleplayer. I mean, it sounds like they have a lot of detail and cutscenes and such, which is cool.

m4r-k7
07-31-2014, 11:51 PM
I had the same feeling. I think you have to choose a specific build. I hope i'm wrong though. I would prefer it if Arno could truly become a master assassin and not only part master assassin.

If its like Watch Dogs then you can unlock every skill. I hope we can unlock every skill but I want it to take a long time so it feels like we have actually achieved everything. It seems like there will be a skill tree for parkour, combat and stealth. If we do have to choose I think I would fully upgrade parkour and then upgrade half combat and half stealth or something like that xD

JustPlainQuirky
07-31-2014, 11:52 PM
11 missions as in 11 sequences or...?

Because Assassination sidequest missions in AC tend to be short IMO

m4r-k7
07-31-2014, 11:54 PM
Also, 11 co-op missions sounds good. They're probably all assassination missions and that's more than most of the games had in assassination missions for singleplayer. I mean, it sounds like they have a lot of detail and cutscenes and such, which is cool.

I like it when he said "we wanted AC Unity to make the impact AC 1 had on next- gen consoles back then" as when I first saw AC 1 when I got my 360 I was amazed lol
Unity is really looking great so far.

SHADOWGARVIN
07-31-2014, 11:55 PM
If its like Watch Dogs then you can unlock every skill. I hope we can unlock every skill but I want it to take a long time so it feels like we have actually achieved everything. It seems like there will be a skill tree for parkour, combat and stealth. If we do have to choose I think I would fully upgrade parkour and then upgrade half combat and half stealth or something like that xD

I agree. You have to earn it. I really hope you can upgrade every skill and can become a true master assassin.


It seems like there will be a skill tree for parkour, combat and stealth. If we do have to choose I think I would fully upgrade parkour and then upgrade half combat and half stealth or something like that xD

That would be a good build.

Jexx21
07-31-2014, 11:56 PM
11 missions as in 11 sequences or...?

Because Assassination sidequest missions in AC tend to be short IMO

11 missions as in 11 Assassination missions. not Assassination side missions, but Assassination missions.

for ACU's co-op missions, it could be more like a sequence...

I'm expecting it to be a bit like Dishonored's assassination missions, if you get what I'm saying. Explore, find different things, kill the target, etc.

ACfan443
07-31-2014, 11:56 PM
Another one from Comic-Con

http://youtu.be/MvLYFWehEyA

JustPlainQuirky
08-01-2014, 12:02 AM
@ACfan

and no new information was provided :p

@jexx

I see...

masterfenix2009
08-01-2014, 12:26 AM
Okay, one thing I am confused about. Is it only co-op missions or can you do free roam co-op?

LoyalACFan
08-01-2014, 12:27 AM
I'm calling BS on the whole "they take 30-40 minutes to complete" thing. Yeah, maybe if you crawl to your destination :rolleyes: Are these not the type of co-op missions that were shown at E3? You know, the one that took less than five minutes in total stealth?

Eh, if you play them alone they'll probably be more substantial. I'll probably end up playing them all solo the first time anyway; I have a feeling I'll inevitably get stuck with asshats who intentionally draw attention to themselves :nonchalance: That was one thing that had me wondering though, what's to stop your co-op partners from just charging the place and shooting the target in the head from above? Are they invincible until all your teammates have arrived for you to trigger a cutscene? That's how it worked in the E3 demo, but that was very, very scripted.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 12:36 AM
I'll believe the 30-40 minute number. Sounds plausible to me.

dimbismp
08-01-2014, 12:37 AM
No Amancio said that you will be able to make the choice.

I was confused too. Perhaps there is a glitch in the animus where the true historical choice is unable to be retracted from memory?
Didn't watch the interview,but this got my attention.Anyone having to say something about it?

LoyalACFan
08-01-2014, 12:44 AM
I'll believe the 30-40 minute number. Sounds plausible to me.

How can you possibly stretch out an assassination mission for the better part of an hour?

LoyalACFan
08-01-2014, 12:45 AM
Didn't watch the interview,but this got my attention.Anyone having to say something about it?

It basically confirms that there won't be a sequel, if it's true. I'm still not entirely convinced that he meant you'll be able to make a choice as in "there's two separate endings." Unless they pull an Infamous and make one of the endings non-canon.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 12:48 AM
How can you possibly stretch out an assassination mission for the better part of an hour?

Dishonored did it.

There's multiple ways that they could do it.

Also there was nothing saying that you would have to make a choice in the story aspect, he just said that Arno has the make a choice.

Xstantin
08-01-2014, 12:52 AM
Stealth approach could stretch the missions a lot actually. Think about something like MGS Ground Zeroes, you could run and finish it in ten minutes, same goes to Dishonored.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 12:56 AM
Yea, judging that these missions are supposed to have some cutscenes, I would be surprised if there are some "investigation" like sections. Or maybe they'll include that thing where you can explore the map to find and activate certain things to use during the assassination before you really start it. There is supposed to be free-roam co-op, right?

Xstantin
08-01-2014, 01:01 AM
Yes, there was something about exploring the streets with your friends on the website.

guardian_titan
08-01-2014, 01:35 AM
The choice will likely be akin to whether or not you killed that one assassin guy at the end of Watch_Dogs which honestly seemed like an afterthought to me. *Credits roll.* Oh yeah, we forgot that one guy from the beginning of the game. *Adds extra quest at end of the game to kill or leave the guy.* :rolleyes: Yeah, that was an important choice.

Frankly, I don't see making a choice impacting the game much. Arno lets Elise die, he just ends up with some other chick. If he lets her live, chances are he still ends up with some other chick. Assuming she's his love interest anyway. If she's his adopted sister ... slightly different matter. But whoever we got the memories from that we're viewing, no matter what, Arno ends up with someone who doesn't die at the end. And Elise can't have the kid that leads to that descendant before the choice occurs or game over. So saving Elise or letting her die won't matter. I'm still not understanding Elise's relationship to Arno, but I'm caring less and less so she could be his mother for all I care at this point honestly. All I'm hearing with Arno is Ezio's story repeated with elements of Haytham thrown in, better parkour, and co-op. Yay?

I don't see Ubisoft turning into Bioware, Telltale, or CD Projek Red and importing choices between games so even though we might get a choice, it's not going to matter in the next game anyway. That could become too much to keep up with and maintain a feasible connection to history. So I wouldn't get too happy about making a choice regarding love and duty. Ultimately, it ends up on the same path anyway. Look at Telltale's The Walking Dead season 1. No matter how you played the game, Lee died at the end and Clem was alone. We'll get the same ending in season 2, too. The only variation might be who's with Clem at the end. Where she ends up will always be the same. With Mass Effect 3, no matter what you did in the entire series, it came down to pick a primary color. The Witcher series seems to be a lot better regarding choice branching, but I have yet to finish the first one so no comment.

If the Watch_Dogs choice does import into the next game, chances are there will be some cop out dialogue asking you what happened to the guy and not a direct save import. Then that's the only choice you make in that game beyond maybe another afterthought choice at the end. Obsidian did the same sneaky questions in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II regarding if Revan was male or female and if he/she was dark or light sided. The save from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic I didn't import into the sequel so any choices you made in the first one was pointless. And none of your choices in the first or second games mattered in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Revan ended up a light sided male and the Exile was a light sided female no matter what you chose.
Regards to talent points, theoretically, Ubisoft can't assume every player will play co-op so limiting the skills so you can only take so many in a game steps on the toes of the purely single player. It's fine for co-op, but Assassin's Creed is a single player game first. I'm hoping they haven't forgotten that or the series just becomes something like Call of Duty set in the past. So chances are all skills will be obtainable. But hey, they've stepped on a lot of players toes lately so maybe they are limiting how many talents you can get in a single playthrough. :rolleyes:

rickprog
08-01-2014, 01:41 AM
I'm interpreting what Amancio said about Arno becoming an assassin and "you" becoming an assassin as parallel progression in the order between the modern day protagonist and Arno. So when Arno becomes a Master Assassin, the modern day protagonist will as well.

I like how they're splitting the major historical events for co-op and the main campaign for Arno so that the events don't feel pushed into what's going on in Arno's story, too. This division will greatly benefit the game, I think. The sense of "the assassins actually did this" for historical events will return and feel rather natural. By the way I think 11, 40 minute co-op missions is rather good. If they make them 30 minutes only that would still be about 5 hours and a half, which is around a third or fourth of the main campaign's length in comparison.

HDinHB
08-01-2014, 05:08 AM
Alex said "these [11] missions are 30-40 minutes in length." I interpret that to mean 30-40 minutes each, but he could mean 30-40 minutes total, or about 3-4 minutes each. The co-op trailer was 3 1/2 minutes. I hope it's the longer version. 40 minutes total hardly seems like enough to justify the effort.

Regarding the Cornelian dilemma, he said "a character needs to choose between love and duty." He doesn't say "the character," or "Arno." Maybe Elise must choose, or another character, or something in Modern Day? Or maybe he was just defining a generic Cornelian dilemma. If it is Arno's choice, and we as the player actually make the choice independently, it will be interesting to see how they rationalize that with how we are reliving Arno's memories, which, by definition, are deterministic. I don't think an Animus glitch or something like that would be very satisfying.

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 05:24 AM
^
They could always say that your actions as a player was what Arno did.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-01-2014, 08:04 AM
Alex said "these [11] missions are 30-40 minutes in length." I interpret that to mean 30-40 minutes each, but he could mean 30-40 minutes total, or about 3-4 minutes each. The co-op trailer was 3 1/2 minutes. I hope it's the longer version. 40 minutes total hardly seems like enough to justify the effort.

Each of the co-op missions will take between 30-40 minutes to complete.
30-40 minutes for all the 11 co-op missions combined would be horrible!!

ShoryukenMan
08-01-2014, 08:36 AM
Can co-op missions be played solo?

SHADOWGARVIN
08-01-2014, 08:39 AM
Can co-op missions be played solo?

Yes, you can play every co-op mission solo.

ShoryukenMan
08-01-2014, 08:54 AM
Oh, thank goodness!

I like to keep the AC goodness to myself. lol.

jeordievera
08-01-2014, 09:14 AM
I think he is in the interview just refering to the situation of being catch-22 where a character has to choose between love and duty and is kind of trapped.

SixKeys
08-01-2014, 10:32 AM
Haven't listened to the interview yet, but 30-40 minute co-op missions sounds very unlikely. I suspect it's marketing talk similar to "exclusive 1-hour side missions" we've all heard before.

jeordievera
08-01-2014, 10:37 AM
Unless it will take you 25 minutes to get to the place where your target is..

jayjay275
08-01-2014, 11:25 AM
I really like how Alex Amancio is bringing back AC to its roots, as it seems like he knows what he is actually going on about, rather than Alex Hutchinson.
If we're to choose between the Brotherhood and Elise, then I already know my decision...

One question I always ask for each AC: Will there be any type of forts that we can infiltrate?

Reptilis91
08-01-2014, 11:30 AM
I would choose Elise, templars ftw!

Farlander1991
08-01-2014, 11:32 AM
Haven't listened to the interview yet, but 30-40 minute co-op missions sounds very unlikely. I suspect it's marketing talk similar to "exclusive 1-hour side missions" we've all heard before.

Watch_Dogs missions are pretty lengthy, and since W_D from gameplay perspective is a sign of where Ubi's open-world games are going, I'd say 30-40 minute co-op missions aren't that of a stretch.

m4r-k7
08-01-2014, 11:37 AM
I am looking forward to co-op but at the moment none of my mates actually have a next-gen console yet and I don't want to play with people I don't know who don't play properly lol I will probs do them all by myself and end up dying a lot.

LoyalACFan
08-01-2014, 11:54 AM
Watch_Dogs missions are pretty lengthy, and since W_D from gameplay perspective is a sign of where Ubi's open-world games are going, I'd say 30-40 minute co-op missions aren't that of a stretch.

W_D's missions are all pretty heavy on narrative though, typically including several scripted stages (i.e. stealth section, cutscene/phonecall, car chase, cutscene/phonecall, gunfight, etc) which frankly can't be the case in the co-op missions unless there's some type of gating system where all players need to reach the same point simultaneously, which they already said they're trying to avoid. The "blackbox" mission design essentially sounds like they're plopping you into a specified area and giving you one objective, leaving the rest to you to figure out. Which is absolutely fantastic, actually, I'm not complaining about that; that's really the ideal AC mission. It's just that the 40-minute time stamp sounds a bit questionable.

m4r-k7
08-01-2014, 11:59 AM
W_D's missions are all pretty heavy on narrative though, typically including several scripted stages (i.e. stealth section, cutscene/phonecall, car chase, cutscene/phonecall, gunfight, etc) which frankly can't be the case in the co-op missions unless there's some type of gating system where all players need to reach the same point simultaneously, which they already said they're trying to avoid. The "blackbox" mission design essentially sounds like they're plopping you into a specified area and giving you one objective, leaving the rest to you to figure out. Which is absolutely fantastic, actually, I'm not complaining about that; that's really the ideal AC mission. It's just that the 40-minute time stamp sounds a bit questionable.

I don't think the co-op missions will be 40 minutes if they are purely assassination missions. But I think these co-op missions aren't just assassination contracts as seen is the E3 demo - that may have been an example of one of them. For example, other missions may end with an assassination but they may require stages such as travel to the location, work out what the guards are planning, kill this guard to steal his notes, travel to this location, now kill the target. So it might not just be a simple assassination mission as seen in the E3 demo (which they had to cut down anyway due to E3 time management) The first bit of the co-op mission might take place in the city (like shown at the very beggining of the E3 co-op video) and then end in a famous landmark. All of this together may take 30 minutes but you are right I don;t think it would take 40 minutes. Dishonored did these assassinations perfectly, which is what makes it such an outstanding game - but that game was narrative driven whereas it seems like the brotherhood missions are less about a story, but more about assassinating a historical figure or learning about the french revolution and killing templars.

zkorejo
08-01-2014, 12:05 PM
Great interview. I really dont want to raise my expectations and It may be too early to judge but I feel like AC Unity will be a blast to play.

I am liking the direction Ubi has taken in terms of MP in their games. Watch Dogs and AC UNity both are unique and fresh MP experiences. I am really looking forward to the Co-op. I hope there are some cool unlocks/rewards like Destiny.

As far as the choice go, I will wait and see how the story unfolds, even though it may not have as much of an impact on the story. Right now I would choose Assassins ofcourse, if she cant leave the Templars for Arno, Why would I leave Assassins for her?!

http://i0.wp.com/memecollection.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/crows-before-hoes-game-of-thones-gif.jpg?resize=436%2C270

But my choice will depend on the entire story and Elise's character.

jayjay275
08-01-2014, 12:05 PM
I would choose Elise, templars ftw!

The Brotherhood of course.

Farlander1991
08-01-2014, 12:32 PM
W_D's missions are all pretty heavy on narrative though, typically including several scripted stages (i.e. stealth section, cutscene/phonecall, car chase, cutscene/phonecall, gunfight, etc) which frankly can't be the case in the co-op missions unless there's some type of gating system where all players need to reach the same point simultaneously, which they already said they're trying to avoid. The "blackbox" mission design essentially sounds like they're plopping you into a specified area and giving you one objective, leaving the rest to you to figure out. Which is absolutely fantastic, actually, I'm not complaining about that; that's really the ideal AC mission. It's just that the 40-minute time stamp sounds a bit questionable.

Nothing stops a co-op mission to consist of several blackbox objectives, though (and that doesn't mean that there has to be a gating cutscene/arrive at one point system either).

Will_Lucky
08-01-2014, 01:55 PM
Don't like the sound of a choice, much prefer to have a determined story as far as the AC series goes. I enjoy it in games like Fallout and Witcher, but AC? Nope not at all.

wvstolzing
08-01-2014, 02:04 PM
Don't like the sound of a choice, much prefer to have a determined story as far as the AC series goes. I enjoy it in games like Fallout and Witcher, but AC? Nope not at all.

Not to mention, that since it's not an RPG, and since the whole plot is supposed to consist in replaying events that already happened, once and for all making real choices is not even a possibility.

What's meant is that Arno, and not the player, makes a choice at some point, etc. etc.

HDinHB
08-01-2014, 02:57 PM
Not to mention, that since it's not an RPG, and since the whole plot is supposed to consist in replaying events that already happened, once and for all making real choices is not even a possibility.

What's meant is that Arno, and not the player, makes a choice at some point, etc. etc.

I think this is how it will be. We will witness Arno struggle with and make the choice, but not make the choice ourselves.

jayjay275
08-01-2014, 03:02 PM
I think Arno will stay true to the Creed.

HDinHB
08-01-2014, 03:30 PM
I think Arno will stay true to the Creed.

He will if he wants a sequel. Actually, choosing the girl might make a more interesting follow-on. And he is French.

rprkjj
08-01-2014, 05:23 PM
Nothing stops a co-op mission to consist of several blackbox objectives, though (and that doesn't mean that there has to be a gating cutscene/arrive at one point system either).

I think they already said the co-op missions will be black-box.

poptartz20
08-01-2014, 05:34 PM
I think it would be an interesting twist if arno followed her heart... I mean what other Assassin has done that?

but interesting seems like this AC has some great additions to it.

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 05:37 PM
I think it would be an interesting twist if arno followed her heart... I mean what other Assassin has done that?

but interesting seems like this AC has some great additions to it.
Would be an interesting twist if Arno was actually a girl.

Farlander1991
08-01-2014, 05:40 PM
I think they already said the co-op missions will be black-box.

Yes, they did. What I mean is, there doesn't necessarily have to be just one black-box objective in a co-op mission, they can be consecutive.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-01-2014, 05:52 PM
Oh, thank goodness!

I like to keep the AC goodness to myself. lol.

Lol. I will be playing the co-op missions solo as well. I don't have ps+.

Xstantin
08-01-2014, 06:02 PM
Lol. I will be playing the co-op missions solo as well. I don't have ps+.

I'm looking forward to playing some of them by myself as well, might add some challenge.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-01-2014, 06:09 PM
I'm looking forward to playing some of them by myself as well, might add some challenge.

Exactly. I love a good challenge! It might force you to come up with a good strategy. Use stealth a lot.

joelsantos24
08-01-2014, 06:24 PM
New interview with Alex Amancio.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9ZtcVUCLmQ
Was it me, or that interviewer sounded totally stoned?

m4r-k7
08-01-2014, 07:12 PM
Was it me, or that interviewer sounded totally stoned?

Most interviewers sound so bored when they are interviewing people. Its like they are thinking "hurry up on answering this question so I can get onto the next one and finish this sh*t" lol

LieutenantRex
08-01-2014, 07:13 PM
This looks interesting, but I still don't understand why there is no day and night cycle.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 07:22 PM
This looks interesting, but I still don't understand why there is no day and night cycle.
for betting lighting and more realistic civilian behaviors for those times of day to create better atmosphere

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 07:26 PM
I don't think the co-op missions will be 40 minutes if they are purely assassination missions. But I think these co-op missions aren't just assassination contracts as seen is the E3 demo - that may have been an example of one of them. For example, other missions may end with an assassination but they may require stages such as travel to the location, work out what the guards are planning, kill this guard to steal his notes, travel to this location, now kill the target. So it might not just be a simple assassination mission as seen in the E3 demo (which they had to cut down anyway due to E3 time management) The first bit of the co-op mission might take place in the city (like shown at the very beggining of the E3 co-op video) and then end in a famous landmark. All of this together may take 30 minutes but you are right I don;t think it would take 40 minutes. Dishonored did these assassinations perfectly, which is what makes it such an outstanding game - but that game was narrative driven whereas it seems like the brotherhood missions are less about a story, but more about assassinating a historical figure or learning about the french revolution and killing templars.

This is probably what the co-op missions will be like.

I wish you guys would be a little less cynical.

jdowny
08-01-2014, 08:08 PM
for betting lighting and more realistic civilian behaviors for those times of day to create better atmosphere

That's a very good point on the realistic civilian behaviours and one of the many reasons I'm excited for the fixed time.

It was always such an immersion killer when there were still hundreds of civilians still walking around just before dawn. Or when night lasted just a couple of minutes and it's suddenly morning. I'm looking forward to sneaking across the rooftops of Paris for hours at night when it's deadly silent and no people about, and just the moonlight to guide you.

m4r-k7
08-01-2014, 09:36 PM
I don't mind fixed time of day for the story as it feels weird when days and days pass whilst free roaming. I am really hoping that post game it will either be automatic or you can change what time of day and weather you want

Xstantin
08-01-2014, 09:40 PM
@m4r, we had that in AC III and Black Flag with cheats, so it might come back.

m4r-k7
08-01-2014, 09:52 PM
@m4r, we had that in AC III and Black Flag with cheats, so it might come back.

Yup hopefully :)

ShoryukenMan
08-01-2014, 10:14 PM
All this talk of an Arno sequel already? What if Arno is the one who dies at the end? What if Elise is the protagonist of the sequel? Then we'd get our Templar/female lead all in one. But that would never happen...

SHADOWGARVIN
08-01-2014, 10:19 PM
All this talk of an Arno sequel already? What if Arno is the one who dies at the end? What if Elise is the protagonist of the sequel? Then we'd get our Templar/female lead all in one. But that would never happen...

That would be a twist!

Fatal-Feit
08-01-2014, 11:20 PM
I want to see weathers return.

Ureh
08-02-2014, 12:06 AM
Maybe they'll start exploring multiple realties/timelines. Cause twcb seemed to be able to understand that.

rickprog
08-02-2014, 12:21 AM
I don't know if you guys have checked out the last in-depth analysis of IGN's "making of" by Access the Animus, but it says the following about lighting effects:


The video also gives us the chance to get a glimpse of the effects that the Unity teams can use for the creation of the game:

"LayeredSky": it is possible to see two types of mention of the "Sunlight", three types of "Sun Sprite" (where “sprite” may refer to the graphic term), four effects of the "Sun flare", and other two effects / tools dedicated to the Moon ("Moon Azimut" and "Moon Elevation");
"VolCloudsParams" (Parameters for the clouds’ volume): we can see three of them, although the file names aren’t completely visible (“Multi-Sca…” , “Sky Inten…”, “Cloud Sha…”);
“PostEffectSettings”
“Fog”: the settings for the “Volumetric Fog” concern nine functions: “density”, “top” (maybe the upper part of the volumetric fog), “Top fall off”, “bottom”, “atmospheric”, “noise scale”, “noise threshold”, “noise turbidity” and “dense fog”.

So I guess night is coming back. It's all here (http://www.accesstheanimus.com/Making_of_hidden_secrets_part2.html), by the way.

Ureh
08-02-2014, 12:41 AM
I don't know if you guys have checked out the last in-depth analysis of IGN's "making of" by Access the Animus, but it says the following about lighting effects:



So I guess night is coming back. It's all here (http://www.accesstheanimus.com/Making_of_hidden_secrets_part2.html), by the way.

Oh my goodness, are they bringing back the weather+stealth system (I like the snowstorms in AC3)?! We can use fog to obscure our presence and reduce noise!? :O

O.O

m4r-k7
08-02-2014, 12:46 AM
Oh my goodness, are they bringing back the weather+stealth system (I like the snowstorms in AC3)?! We can use fog to obscure our presence and reduce noise!? :O

O.O

“Fog”: the settings for the “Volumetric Fog” concern nine functions: “density”, “top” (maybe the upper part of the volumetric fog), “Top fall off”, “bottom”, “atmospheric”, “noise scale”, “noise threshold”, “noise turbidity” and “dense fog”.

That makes it seem like it could happen!?!
I want this atmosphere with the fog :)

http://www.gamepur.com/files/imagepicker/6/thumbs/assassins-creed-unity-concept-art.jpg

Sesheenku
08-02-2014, 04:24 AM
I like the idea of limited skills available to the player. It adds genuine replayability and there's nothing more satisfying for me than a defined role especially when it comes to playing with friends.

FlamingMoh
08-02-2014, 05:25 AM
I like the idea of limited skills available to the player. It adds genuine replayability and there's nothing more satisfying for me than a defined role especially when it comes to playing with friends.
What if you wanted a solely sp playthrough?

Xstantin
08-02-2014, 06:16 AM
What if you wanted a solely sp playthrough?

You still have your preferences, one way or another. I'm looking forward to getting a decent stealth build in Unity, for example. Still with Ubi games like Watch_Dogs and Far Cry you could max every upgrade.

Sushiglutton
08-02-2014, 09:34 AM
I dunno I feel like very little new information has come out since E3 really. In all these interviews they pretty much reiterate the same points. Not really a problem as it will make the game more fresh when you finally get to play it.

joelsantos24
08-02-2014, 10:36 AM
Most interviewers sound so bored when they are interviewing people. Its like they are thinking "hurry up on answering this question so I can get onto the next one and finish this sh*t" lol
Exactly. But that one sounded way too explicit in that regard. But it's crazy, how on earth is Unity not exciting stuff? LOOOL


That's a very good point on the realistic civilian behaviours and one of the many reasons I'm excited for the fixed time.

It was always such an immersion killer when there were still hundreds of civilians still walking around just before dawn. Or when night lasted just a couple of minutes and it's suddenly morning. I'm looking forward to sneaking across the rooftops of Paris for hours at night when it's deadly silent and no people about, and just the moonlight to guide you.
I agree with you on the unrealistic civilian behaviour, particularly after dark. However, I'm not sure that eliminating the day-night cycles altogether, was the best way to address the issue. Perhaps readjusting the crowd behaviour would be preferable. Making the streets far less crowded after dark, would make it extremely more difficult for us to get by unnoticed, which would be far more interesting in a stealth perspective. In really late hour times, the game would have literally no social stealth perspective whatsoever, which means we'd have to rely on physical stealth entirely. Like I said, it'd be far more interesting, not to mention realistic.

Jexx21
08-02-2014, 11:24 AM
I do think that getting rid of day/night cycles is the way to get rid of the issue. It allows for better lighting and better NPC behaviors without taking up too much CPU/GPU power.

Sushiglutton
08-02-2014, 11:52 AM
I like how Alex uses the word "flowstate" when talking about the parkour :D!

Jexx21
08-02-2014, 12:01 PM
You know what game puts you into a flowstate? Batman: Arkham

joelsantos24
08-02-2014, 01:27 PM
I do think that getting rid of day/night cycles is the way to get rid of the issue. It allows for better lighting and better NPC behaviors without taking up too much CPU/GPU power.
If the premisse was to save CPU power, then by all means, but I really don't buy into that.

A dynamic weather and day-night cycle systems, are always preferable to fixed systems, in my opinion. And I don't really understand what you mean with "better NPC behaviour". I remember walking around New York, for instance, in AC3 and during pitch black night, and with hundreds of people around, as if it was daytime. I know that (present time) New York is the city that never sleeps, but in general and anywhere else on the Planet, no one's around at 3-4 A.M.. Perhaps the most reasonable thing to do, would be to take the people off the streets at that time period, and put more guards and just guards around. Imagine having to take out a target at that time, you'd have to pass the guards and sneak inside his estate, then sneak inside his house and look around for him. A much more interesting and variable dynamic.

Jexx21
08-02-2014, 01:57 PM
That's exactly my point. With a day/night cycle you have bad NPC behavior, but with a fixed day/night cycle, you can have good NPC behavior.

LoyalACFan
08-02-2014, 02:09 PM
If the premisse was to save CPU power, then by all means, but I really don't buy into that.

A dynamic weather and day-night cycle systems, are always preferable to fixed systems, in my opinion. And I don't really understand what you mean with "better NPC behaviour". I remember walking around New York, for instance, in AC3 and during pitch black night, and with hundreds of people around, as if it was daytime. I know that (present time) New York is the city that never sleeps, but in general and anywhere else on the Planet, no one's around at 3-4 A.M.. Perhaps the most reasonable thing to do, would be to take the people off the streets at that time period, and put more guards and just guards around. Imagine having to take out a target at that time, you'd have to pass the guards and sneak inside his estate, then sneak inside his house and look around for him. A much more interesting and variable dynamic.

That could still happen, it's just that it wouldn't be possible with a dynamic day/night system. If it's dynamic, where do the people go at sunset? Do they just disappear? No way they're going to make enough interiors for them all to go inside to bed (not to mention how difficult it would be to make every civilian in the city go inside at a separate, randomized time; if everyone INSTANTLY runs for the door as soon as the clock strikes midnight that's even more immersion-breaking). If it's a fixed system, and a sequence starts at night, you'll just already have a lack of civilians on the street with more guards, so you can still do a mission under the circumstances you described.

joelsantos24
08-02-2014, 05:47 PM
That could still happen, it's just that it wouldn't be possible with a dynamic day/night system. If it's dynamic, where do the people go at sunset? Do they just disappear? No way they're going to make enough interiors for them all to go inside to bed (not to mention how difficult it would be to make every civilian in the city go inside at a separate, randomized time; if everyone INSTANTLY runs for the door as soon as the clock strikes midnight that's even more immersion-breaking). If it's a fixed system, and a sequence starts at night, you'll just already have a lack of civilians on the street with more guards, so you can still do a mission under the circumstances you described.
I understand. Obviously, it would be ridiculous if NPC's would just vanish out of thin air, as soon as it'd get dark. If it's effectively feasible, regarding the current level of technology, to create a strategy to gradually reduce the number of NPC's as it starts to get dark, not to mention drastically reducing it to virtually zero at dawn, it'd be preferable. That's what I meant. I obviously recognize that this might well be impossible to carry out, or at least smoothly, that is.

But tell me something, there will still be night-time missions, right? Because when we're talking fixed-time, we're not talking about missions exclusively during the day, much like in AC1, right? I really love night-time missions.

LoyalACFan
08-02-2014, 06:20 PM
I understand. Obviously, it would be ridiculous if NPC's would just vanish out of thin air, as soon as it'd get dark. If it's effectively feasible, regarding the current level of technology, to create a strategy to gradually reduce the number of NPC's as it starts to get dark, not to mention drastically reducing it to virtually zero at dawn, it'd be preferable. That's what I meant. I obviously recognize that this might well be impossible to carry out, or at least smoothly, that is.

But tell me something, there will still be night-time missions, right? Because when we're talking fixed-time, we're not talking about missions exclusively during the day, much like in AC1, right? I really love night-time missions.

Oh yeah, there will still be day and night stages. There were a few screenshots released recently that showed the city at night. It just won't happen dynamically. When you go to a mission marker, it'll just transfer you to the specific time of day/night when that memory occurred, and then it'll stay that way until you go to the next mission (or sleep in a safehouse like in Watch_Dogs or GTA, no word on whether or not they've implemented something like that but I assume they have, otherwise you'd be forever stuck at a certain time of day post-game).

Dome500
08-02-2014, 06:26 PM
I understand. Obviously, it would be ridiculous if NPC's would just vanish out of thin air, as soon as it'd get dark. If it's effectively feasible, regarding the current level of technology, to create a strategy to gradually reduce the number of NPC's as it starts to get dark, not to mention drastically reducing it to virtually zero at dawn, it'd be preferable. That's what I meant. I obviously recognize that this might well be impossible to carry out, or at least smoothly, that is.

But tell me something, there will still be night-time missions, right? Because when we're talking fixed-time, we're not talking about missions exclusively during the day, much like in AC1, right? I really love night-time missions.

I REALLY hope we will ave night missions and that we can manually change daytime somehow. I would be really sad if not.

joelsantos24
08-02-2014, 10:38 PM
Oh yeah, there will still be day and night stages. There were a few screenshots released recently that showed the city at night. It just won't happen dynamically. When you go to a mission marker, it'll just transfer you to the specific time of day/night when that memory occurred, and then it'll stay that way until you go to the next mission (or sleep in a safehouse like in Watch_Dogs or GTA, no word on whether or not they've implemented something like that but I assume they have, otherwise you'd be forever stuck at a certain time of day post-game).
That's cool. And it actually makes sense. All this time, if you can believe it, I was under the impression we'd only have day-time missions. I really love nigh missions, it gives the mission a deeper, heavier tone, I think, and it's much more thrilling. Still remember playing in Florence, Venice, Rome and Constantinople during the night, and the atmosphere was always breathtaking.


I REALLY hope we will have night missions and that we can manually change daytime somehow. I would be really sad if not.
Maybe we'll get some gameplay video of some mission during the night, sometime in the near future. One can always hope, right? :cool:

Sesheenku
08-03-2014, 02:19 AM
What if you wanted a solely sp playthrough?

Your point? Do I need to play an RPG with every class available to me and every skill? No. I don't.

You guys are jumping at nothing, the skills are just going to boost how you like to play and that's it. If you're balanced than balance your skill trees and enough said.

In any case we hardly even know how they'll handle it.

IMO the ideal way is we have enough points to get a few useful skills in all trees for the few players who want to be a jack of all trades, the rest of us can max 1 tree and invest a little in a secondary tree if desired.

Personally I'd go stealth>parkour if possible depending on whether or not the parkour skills are any good.

Jexx21
08-03-2014, 03:37 AM
Assassin's Creed isn't an RPG.

The idea way for an action-adventure game to do it is to allow you to max out all skills eventually, by doing a lot of side content.

Sesheenku
08-03-2014, 03:53 AM
Assassin's Creed isn't an RPG.

The idea way for an action-adventure game to do it is to allow you to max out all skills eventually, by doing a lot of side content.

Please tell me where that is solidified in genre requirements? Just case a bunch of games do it?

Don't be ridiculous, it's not like they'll be gimping you, people act like if boosting stealth will make you worthless in everything else which is unlikely to be the case.

The only thing required for a game to be action-adventure is for there to be action and adventure in it. Period. Everything else is anything goes and if they want to make it "class" based then that's perfectly viable and doesn't have anything to do with whether or not AC is an rpg.

Nothing is genre specific. A genre only states that there will be a main element, in the case of RPG's you WILL take on some sort of role whether it be a character, a class or both but that doesn't mean the combat will be turn based or strategic.

In action-adventure there WILL be action based combat and there will be adventure but it doesn't mean the combat will be based on meele weapons for example. Everything other than "action" and "adventure" is up for grabs.

joelsantos24
08-03-2014, 09:46 AM
Please tell me where that is solidified in genre requirements? Just case a bunch of games do it?

Don't be ridiculous, it's not like they'll be gimping you, people act like if boosting stealth will make you worthless in everything else which is unlikely to be the case.

The only thing required for a game to be action-adventure is for there to be action and adventure in it. Period. Everything else is anything goes and if they want to make it "class" based then that's perfectly viable and doesn't have anything to do with whether or not AC is an rpg.

Nothing is genre specific. A genre only states that there will be a main element, in the case of RPG's you WILL take on some sort of role whether it be a character, a class or both but that doesn't mean the combat will be turn based or strategic.

In action-adventure there WILL be action based combat and there will be adventure but it doesn't mean the combat will be based on meele weapons for example. Everything other than "action" and "adventure" is up for grabs.
Exactly. Boosting stealth won't just signify boosting one skill, but all those directly attached to it. The same goes for any given characteristic, though, since any given feature is meaningless by itself, it's all part of a delicate balanced system. Specializing on one of them, will make the remaining easier enough. Example: boosting stealth will inherently mean that you'd be better at getting by unnoticed, meaning you'd be more effective at eavesdropping, pickpocketing, etc., and ultimately, assassinating.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-03-2014, 10:31 AM
Assassin's Creed isn't an RPG. ....allow you to max out all skills eventually, by doing a lot of side content.

I completely agree. I hope you're able to fully upgrade Arno.


Your point? Do I need to play an RPG with every class available to me and every skill? No. I don't.

Like many have said before, AC is not an rpg. If i wanted to play an rpg, i would play another game.


You guys are jumping at nothing, the skills are just going to boost how you like to play and that's it. If you're balanced than balance your skill trees and enough said.
In any case we hardly even know how they'll handle it.

You're contradicting yourself. You know as much as everybody else. It seems that you're jumping as well.


IMO the ideal way is we have enough points to get a few useful skills in all trees for the few players who want to be a jack of all trades, the rest of us can max 1 tree and invest a little in a secondary tree if desired.

Exactly. It seems that a lot of people don't share your opinion. Nevertheless it appears you think they're wrong and you're right? It seems a little strange.

D.I.D.
08-03-2014, 11:41 AM
Assassin's Creed isn't an RPG.

The idea way for an action-adventure game to do it is to allow you to max out all skills eventually, by doing a lot of side content.

That's not necessarily an RPG thing. Watch Dogs used skills and skill trees, and I never once thought "RPG" while dealing with that.

It works really well as a "gotta catch them all" motivation, and I suspect Ubisoft knows this. If you played Watch Dogs to completion, you probably ended up with all of the skills maxed, whether you really needed them all or not - and in order to do that, you'd have been tempted into doing a lot of extra side activities to earn the points for those skills. I think it's a great way to encourage people to explore the games and not just storm through the story in the shortest possible time.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-03-2014, 11:56 AM
That's not necessarily an RPG thing. Watch Dogs used skills and skill trees, and I never once thought "RPG" while dealing with that.

It works really well as a "gotta catch them all" motivation, and I suspect Ubisoft knows this. If you played Watch Dogs to completion, you probably ended up with all of the skills maxed, whether you really needed them all or not - and in order to do that, you'd have been tempted into doing a lot of extra side activities to earn the points for those skills. I think it's a great way to encourage people to explore the games and not just storm through the story in the shortest possible time.

Precisely! Jexx and I have both said the exact same thing as you. We want to be able to fully upgrade every skill, but you have to earn them.

I don't want to be forced to choose a specific build. If i wanted that i would play an rpg.

Jexx21
08-03-2014, 02:58 PM
That's not necessarily an RPG thing. Watch Dogs used skills and skill trees, and I never once thought "RPG" while dealing with that.

It works really well as a "gotta catch them all" motivation, and I suspect Ubisoft knows this. If you played Watch Dogs to completion, you probably ended up with all of the skills maxed, whether you really needed them all or not - and in order to do that, you'd have been tempted into doing a lot of extra side activities to earn the points for those skills. I think it's a great way to encourage people to explore the games and not just storm through the story in the shortest possible time.

That was sort of my point. Assassin's Creed isn't an RPG. Not all games that have skills and skill trees are RPGs nor do they limit you to only choosing a certain number of skills. I love the fact that they're implementing skills and skill points, but I want to be able to get all of the skills by doing all of the side content.

Unlike Sehseenku seems to be implying, I do not think that choosing to put skill points into the stealth line will make me terrible at combat, or vice versa, I just think that we should be able to get all of the skills. For a few reasons:
1. I think that sort of stance is better for an action/adventure game with skills. These games aren't RPGs, the story of the game doesn't change based on your actions or choices like in say, Skyrim or Fallout or Mass Effect or Dragon Age.
2. In terms of in-game lore, it doesn't make sense for you to only be able to choose some skills and not others. Arno himself would have all of the skills by the end of the game because all of these skills are supposed to come from his actual skills, it wouldn't make sense to not be able to use all of his skills by achieving higher synchronization.

Actually that would be awesome if instead of calling these skill points they called them synchronization points...

SHADOWGARVIN
08-03-2014, 03:12 PM
That was sort of my point. Assassin's Creed isn't an RPG. Not all games that have skills and skill trees are RPGs nor do they limit you to only choosing a certain number of skills. I love the fact that they're implementing skills and skill points, but I want to be able to get all of the skills by doing all of the side content.

Unlike Sehseenku seems to be implying, I do not think that choosing to put skill points into the stealth line will make me terrible at combat, or vice versa, I just think that we should be able to get all of the skills. For a few reasons:
1. I think that sort of stance is better for an action/adventure game with skills. These games aren't RPGs, the story of the game doesn't change based on your actions or choices like in say, Skyrim or Fallout or Mass Effect or Dragon Age.
2. In terms of in-game lore, it doesn't make sense for you to only be able to choose some skills and not others. Arno himself would have all of the skills by the end of the game because all of these skills are supposed to come from his actual skills, it wouldn't make sense to not be able to use all of his skills by achieving higher synchronization.

Well said.

Sesheenku
08-03-2014, 03:48 PM
Exactly. Boosting stealth won't just signify boosting one skill, but all those directly attached to it. The same goes for any given characteristic, though, since any given feature is meaningless by itself, it's all part of a delicate balanced system. Specializing on one of them, will make the remaining easier enough. Example: boosting stealth will inherently mean that you'd be better at getting by unnoticed, meaning you'd be more effective at eavesdropping, pickpocketing, etc., and ultimately, assassinating.

At least we can agree here.



Like many have said before, AC is not an rpg. If i wanted to play an rpg, i would play another game.

People really should stop taking simple examples out of context here. Skill trees and skills are not rpg specific, nor are "builds"



You're contradicting yourself. You know as much as everybody else. It seems that you're jumping as well.

No, I'm not. I do know as much as everybody else, what's your point? The difference is I'm not freaking out about "builds" I don't obsessively need every skill and I can see the game play value of having restricted builds in replayability and co-op.

Co-op loses a bit of juice if everybody can do the same stuff that everybody else can and why bother? Most people have a specific play style, this will allow us to boost that play style, doesn't mean you can't play outside of that play style when you want to.



Exactly. It seems that a lot of people don't share your opinion. Nevertheless it appears you think they're wrong and you're right? It seems a little strange.

Okay and? Just cause you and some others don't agree with my opinion doesn't invalidate it. I never said I was right, where did you pull that out of? I simply said you guys seem to be overreacting, restricted builds aren't going to ruin the game or anything, in fact they could enhance the experience.

Hell I never got all the skills in Tomb Raider, you know why? Cause a portion of them are useless for my play style. Utterly useless. It's unnecessary, I don't need all the skills, nobody does.


That was sort of my point. Assassin's Creed isn't an RPG. Not all games that have skills and skill trees are RPGs nor do they limit you to only choosing a certain number of skills. I love the fact that they're implementing skills and skill points, but I want to be able to get all of the skills by doing all of the side content.

Unlike Sehseenku seems to be implying, I do not think that choosing to put skill points into the stealth line will make me terrible at combat, or vice versa, I just think that we should be able to get all of the skills. For a few reasons:
1. I think that sort of stance is better for an action/adventure game with skills. These games aren't RPGs, the story of the game doesn't change based on your actions or choices like in say, Skyrim or Fallout or Mass Effect or Dragon Age.
2. In terms of in-game lore, it doesn't make sense for you to only be able to choose some skills and not others. Arno himself would have all of the skills by the end of the game because all of these skills are supposed to come from his actual skills, it wouldn't make sense to not be able to use all of his skills by achieving higher synchronization.

Actually that would be awesome if instead of calling these skill points they called them synchronization points...

1 -> So what?

2 -> How do you know? Are all assassins exactly the same? Are you trying to tell me that every single assassin has the exact same capacity, in all the exact same skills? That's ridiculous.

Like normal people, everyone is better at something, in fact you could say for example that Altair was best at stealth, Ezio at parkour, Connor at combat, and Edward was balanced or whatever way you view it, none of them had exactly the same skills, hell in their stories they have different feats which point to their different levels of skills.

It makes MUCH more sense for Arno to be better at some things than others or balanced. You can be a master of something and still have differing levels of skill in the skills required to be a master, all of your skills are well practiced but there will be some that you are simply better at.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-03-2014, 04:07 PM
Obviously there is no point discussing this with you. You obviously think that you're opinion is the right one and that everyone is wrong. Grow up.

Sesheenku
08-03-2014, 04:10 PM
Obviously there is no point discussing this with you. You obviously think that you're opinion is the right one and that everyone is wrong. Grow up.

I would sooooooo LOVE to see where I said that.

If you don't want to debate anymore, just say so, no need to get ruffled and spout ********.

Surely I don't constantly need to add imo into the sentence for you to understand it's an opinion of mine right?

Fun fact -> Opinions are neither right nor wrong.

Who would have thought?

Xstantin
08-03-2014, 04:13 PM
I think we'll be able to unlock all the skills simply because sometimes in coop you might decide to switch to a different build or whatever you want to call it and customize it accordingly. Let's say everyone on my team plays as "green Arno who is good at shooting things" and it's perfectly fine, but then I don't want to shoot things anymore because the gun is too loud or whatever. Switching something up seems logical.

Dome500
08-03-2014, 04:14 PM
2 -> How do you know? Are all assassins exactly the same? Are you trying to tell me that every single assassin has the exact same capacity, in all the exact same skills? That's ridiculous.

He means that in this case every Arno would be different and then there is no "cannon" Arno at least not in terms of skills.

But @Jexx => This is ridiculous, because the skills have nothing to do with the story. 1 or 2 moves do SO not matter. If you Arno (in your head) is Stealthy, then he might have Stealth skills. Still, that does not mean that anyone elses Arno could NOT be stealthy as well, even if he can not lockpick or has a stealth skill less.

The skill tree has nothing to do with the story, especially if you can also be a hybrid and choose from all trees. I see no narrative conflict at all in this case.

And not being able to max out all skills only helps with Coop, teamwork, replayability and a lot of other things.
I don't see a problem there.


Obviously there is no point discussing this with you. You obviously think that you're opinion is the right one and that everyone is wrong. Grow up.

Obviously you have to grow up good sir. He never stated or implied to be "right". He only stated his opinion and the arguments that speak for his opinion, if you can not handle that or can not bring forth any counter-arguments then you should stop posting here.


I think we'll be able to unlock all the skills simply because sometimes in coop you might decide to switch to a different build or whatever you want to call it and customize it accordingly. Let's say everyone on my team plays as "green Arno who is good at shooting things" and it's perfectly fine, but then I don't want to shoot things anymore because the gun is too loud or whatever. Switching something up seems logical.

Yeah, I think so too. I am sure if you can not unlock all skills then you have an option to reassign them somehow.

Sesheenku
08-03-2014, 04:22 PM
Obviously you have to grow up good sir. He never stated or implied to be "right". He only stated his opinion and the arguments that speak for his opinion, if you can not handle that or can not bring forth any counter-arguments then you should stop posting here.


Thank you!

I appreciate this.

AssassinHMS
08-03-2014, 04:24 PM
I wouldn't mind if there was a "new game plus" option. By the end of the first playthrough, there would still be skills to unlock but, by choosing the "new game plus" option we could replay the campaign keeping our skills and unlocking the rest.

jayjay275
08-03-2014, 04:26 PM
To be honest, I think not unlocking skills could be cool. You could either choose to be more of a fighter or more of an assassin. ._.

Sesheenku
08-03-2014, 04:27 PM
I wouldn't mind if there was a "new game plus" option. By the end of the first playthrough, there would still be skills to unlock but, by choosing the "new game plus" option we could replay the campaign keeping our skills and unlocking the rest.

I like this and the re-assignable builds, either one works for me.

LoyalACFan
08-03-2014, 04:41 PM
And not being able to max out all skills only helps with Coop, teamwork, replayability and a lot of other things. I don't see a problem there.

I don't think so... If you have to do all (or most) of the side content to unlock all the skills, people in co-op will still have varying skill sets. The VAST majority of players don't complete the game to 100%. Hell, only about a third of them even finish the story; on PS4 you can check the percentage of players who obtained each trophy, and I've looked through all the games I have out of curiosity. It's very, very rare to see a game that more than half of the playerbase has the "finish story" or "finish final sequence" trophy for. So you know the percentage of people who complete the story plus all the side content has to be much, much lower even than that.

So yeah, we forumers who are way into AC would be able to max out our skill tree since completing the game is basically a given for us, but most players won't complete enough of the content to unlock enough skill points to get everything. So really, even if they allow us to max out our skill tree, most people won't, so there will still be an element of complementing each others' skills. Just like competitive MP, really; there will always be a handful of people who are level 131231231 and have every skill, perk, or bonus in the book, but most people aren't even close to that.

LoyalACFan
08-03-2014, 04:42 PM
To be honest, I think not unlocking skills could be cool. You could either choose to be more of a fighter or more of an assassin. ._.

You could still do that, but if you chose to "break character" so to speak and try being a brutish axe-wielding marauder, that would be an option you could choose without having to start a whole new game.

jayjay275
08-03-2014, 04:52 PM
You could still do that, but if you chose to "break character" so to speak and try being a brutish axe-wielding marauder, that would be an option you could choose without having to start a whole new game.

Exactly. :p

SHADOWGARVIN
08-03-2014, 04:59 PM
And not being able to max out all skills only helps with Coop, teamwork, replayability and a lot of other things.
I don't see a problem there.

You seem to be forgetting that not everyone will play co-op.

I'm 28 years old. How old are you?

jayjay275
08-03-2014, 05:04 PM
Don't derail the thread, the questions raised are worth answering and if an argument is to erupt, please do take it to private messages, that goes to those involved in the argument.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-03-2014, 05:40 PM
Don't derail the thread, the questions raised are worth answering and if an argument is to erupt, please do take it to private messages, that goes to those involved in the argument.

I started this thread. It was meant to talk about the new AC unity interview and all the new information provided in the interview.

This discussion about upgradeble skills has been in a lot of different threads.

Lots of people have different opinions. It's normal. It's all speculation at this point. There is no reason to fight about it. Different people want different things.

I'm sure everyone hopes this game will be amazing. At least we can agree about that.

jayjay275
08-03-2014, 05:45 PM
I started this thread. It was meant to talk about the new AC unity interview and all the new information provided in the interview.

This discussion about upgradeble skills has been in a lot of different threads.

Lots of people have different opinions. It's normal. It's all speculation at this point. There is no reason to fight about it. Different people want different things.

I'm sure everyone hopes this game will be amazing. At least we can agree about that.

Understood, though I'm not sure people want good threads to be locked now. :p

SHADOWGARVIN
08-03-2014, 05:50 PM
Understood, though I'm not sure people want good threads to be locked now. :p

Haha. No, of course not.

Sesheenku
08-03-2014, 05:51 PM
I don't think so... If you have to do all (or most) of the side content to unlock all the skills, people in co-op will still have varying skill sets. The VAST majority of players don't complete the game to 100%. Hell, only about a third of them even finish the story; on PS4 you can check the percentage of players who obtained each trophy, and I've looked through all the games I have out of curiosity. It's very, very rare to see a game that more than 40% of people have the "finish story" or "finish final sequence" trophy for. So you know the percentage of people who complete the story plus all the side content has to be much, much lower even than that.

So yeah, we forumers who are way into AC would be able to max out our skill tree since completing the game is basically a given for us, but most players won't complete enough of the content to unlock enough skill points to get everything. So really, even if they allow us to max out our skill tree, most people won't, so there will still be an element of complementing each others' skills. Just like competitive MP, really; there will always be a handful of people who are level 131231231 and have every skill, perk, or bonus in the book, but most people aren't even close to that.

Where did they say you'll have to do side content to unlock skills?

Why would it be like that? Why wouldn't they just have you gain points and unlock skills? What's this side content weirdness? In what game do you do quests to unlock skills in a skill tree?

Skills are different than common side content btw if some skills WERE forced into side quest then nobody would ignore them, it would be imperative for the full game experience.

Who wouldn't do all the good missions? The only reason people pass on side content is usually cause it's a bunch of pointless busy work for little to no gain.

jayjay275
08-03-2014, 05:57 PM
Where did they say you'll have to do side content to unlock skills?

Why would it be like that? Why wouldn't they just have you gain points and unlock skills? What's this side content weirdness? In what game do you do quests to unlock skills in a skill tree?

Skills are different than common side content btw if some skills WERE forced into side quest then nobody would ignore them, it would be imperative for the full game experience.

Who wouldn't do all the good missions? The only reason people pass on side content is usually cause it's a bunch of pointless busy work for little to no gain.

In Brotherhood, some armour that had better stats were locked to side content, a la - the shop quests. For example, the Seusenhofer armour was restricted to side content, like you had to get the shruken head in the side mission, The Sixth Day. Though this may not be completely relevant, the seusenhofer armour was the second best armour in the game, excluding the Armour of Altair which could be unlocked by uPlay.

LoyalACFan
08-03-2014, 06:09 PM
Where did they say you'll have to do side content to unlock skills?

Why would it be like that? Why wouldn't they just have you gain points and unlock skills? What's this side content weirdness? In what game do you do quests to unlock skills in a skill tree?

Skills are different than common side content btw if some skills WERE forced into side quest then nobody would ignore them, it would be imperative for the full game experience.

Who wouldn't do all the good missions? The only reason people pass on side content is usually cause it's a bunch of pointless busy work for little to no gain.

Side content gives you XP which gives you skill points. That's exactly how it is in Watch_Dogs, Arkham, Tomb Raider... It isn't like "do this specific mission to unlock this specific skill" but that isn't what I said. To get skills, you need skill points, for which you need XP, which you need to complete side content for. In every one of the games I just mentioned, you CAN ultimately unlock every skill, but merely beating the game won't give you enough XP to claim them all, you have to complete a bunch of side content too. And your last statement is patently false, a very small minority of people actually complete side content no matter how good it is. I'm looking at the stats for the Kidd Gloves trophy right now (which is awarded for completing all the Captain Kidd missions, which were pretty much universally praised as AC3's best side content) and only 15% of people who played the game on PS3 have it. And only 49% of them completed the final Assassin tomb in AC2, and those are like everyone's favorite side mission.

jayjay275
08-03-2014, 06:14 PM
Side content gives you XP which gives you skill points. That's exactly how it is in Watch_Dogs, Arkham, Tomb Raider... It isn't like "do this specific mission to unlock this specific skill" but that isn't what I said. To get skills, you need skill points, for which you need XP, which you need to complete side content for. In every one of the games I just mentioned, you CAN ultimately unlock every skill, but merely beating the game won't give you enough XP to claim them all, you have to complete a bunch of side content too. And your last statement is patently false, a very small minority of people actually complete side content no matter how good it is. I'm looking at the stats for the Kidd Gloves trophy right now (which is awarded for completing all the Captain Kidd missions, which were pretty much universally praised as AC3's best side content) and only 15% of people who played the game on PS3 have it. And only 49% of them completed the final Assassin tomb in AC2, and those are like everyone's favorite side mission.

Well said. :rolleyes:

LoyalACFan
08-03-2014, 06:20 PM
Well said. :rolleyes:

Rolly eyes face makes me doubt your sincerity :confused:

jayjay275
08-03-2014, 06:21 PM
Rolly eyes face makes me doubt your sincerity :confused:

Oh no no, I just like the emoticons. I generally believe what you wrote was a good concept for Unity. :p

Sesheenku
08-03-2014, 07:07 PM
Side content gives you XP which gives you skill points. That's exactly how it is in Watch_Dogs, Arkham, Tomb Raider... It isn't like "do this specific mission to unlock this specific skill" but that isn't what I said. To get skills, you need skill points, for which you need XP, which you need to complete side content for. In every one of the games I just mentioned, you CAN ultimately unlock every skill, but merely beating the game won't give you enough XP to claim them all, you have to complete a bunch of side content too. And your last statement is patently false, a very small minority of people actually complete side content no matter how good it is. I'm looking at the stats for the Kidd Gloves trophy right now (which is awarded for completing all the Captain Kidd missions, which were pretty much universally praised as AC3's best side content) and only 15% of people who played the game on PS3 have it. And only 49% of them completed the final Assassin tomb in AC2, and those are like everyone's favorite side mission.

I see what you mean now and can't argue with stats.

In any case I don't feel that's a good enough reason to allow all skill to be gotten just because more casual gamers won't go for them all. Us hardcore AC players will definitely do it and I don't like the idea of having every skill on hand UNLESS I can only use a certain amount of skills at a time and switch at will.

Jexx21
08-04-2014, 08:49 AM
I also have to say I don't even understand how limiting people to certain skills to increase teamwork.

Maybe if you had a limited amount of skill points that you would be able to "switch out" whenever you wanted, although it could be through a pay wall, a certain amount of money. But if it's like that, they could also make that a co-op only thing, as that's where the whole "teamwork" thing comes into play.

But yea, I better be able to unlock all of this skills like I can do in practically every other action/adventure game with skills, because that's who Arno would be.

Sesheenku
08-04-2014, 06:01 PM
I also have to say I don't even understand how limiting people to certain skills to increase teamwork.

Maybe if you had a limited amount of skill points that you would be able to "switch out" whenever you wanted, although it could be through a pay wall, a certain amount of money. But if it's like that, they could also make that a co-op only thing, as that's where the whole "teamwork" thing comes into play.

But yea, I better be able to unlock all of this skills like I can do in practically every other action/adventure game with skills, because that's who Arno would be.

Why even bother with teamwork if you can do everything? There's no point, even if you can kill more efficiently with more people there's no individuality in the characters, they'll all be capable of exactly the same stuff.

Secondly it would be absolutely disgraceful and greedy for them to even DARE to add a switchable build feature and put it behind a pay wall. No Jexx, are you mad? Are you trying to suggest things that will turn gaming into a a filthy pay wall to do anything? Don't even suggest such tripe, if you give a company leg room like that, they'll stretch it out more and more until all the fools are paying for everything that they can possibly get away charging for.

Finally how do you know who Arno is? How do you know he's not better at stealth, parkour, or combat? Your argument is exceedingly poor,
"I want all the skills because I think that Arno has all the skills" that's terrible.

I don't care what skills Arno has, I want better replayability and to not feel like a clone when I go into co-op, which btw different individual builds will do exactly that. The most satisfying co-op in ANY game is when you have a role to play that not everyone else can play.

Finally, restricting skill amount adds a whole other layer of complexity and enjoyment into the game, there's absolutely nothing more satisfying than creating a successful build with your own two hands and then experimenting with other builds in subsequent new games.

This is a chance for them to add a ton of engaging depth and choice that the series has sorely been lacking lately, a chance not only to bring the series back to it's roots but improve upon it's notion of choice and freedom.

Restricted builds are precisely that, you will be forced to use your brain and make choices, instead of just mindlessly grabbing a bunch of skills. That's not satisfying and it's weak progression.

Xstantin
08-04-2014, 06:10 PM
Restricted builds are precisely that, you will be forced to use your brain and make choices, instead of just mindlessly grabbing a bunch of skills. That's not satisfying and it's weak progression.

With all the blackbox talk, I hope that's how it plays out: same layout, different scenarios where players have to approach things differently. then again I guess it'll depend on the team as well.

Sesheenku
08-04-2014, 07:14 PM
With all the blackbox talk, I hope that's how it plays out: same layout, different scenarios where players have to approach things differently. then again I guess it'll depend on the team as well.

Exactly, it matches up with the very thing that made this game great in the first place, choices, freedom, and the consequences of those choices.

This goes for ANY action/adventure game too, they would all be more replayable and have a lot more depth if you had to use your brain and make choices.

I've currently played 72 hours of TombRaider, imagine how much more I would have had out of that if there were different builds?

More choices that affect gameplay and character identity are engaging, it means there's more for the player to interact with.

Besides it's not like you're restricted to one class or anything, likely, you'll be able to take skills from any tree and with that you can create a more balanced assassin if that's your thing.

A jack of all trades character is often great in the hands of players with great skill.

Jexx21
08-04-2014, 08:33 PM
Uh Arno HAS to have all of the skills we can gain in the game because they're coming from his freaking memories. I don't think this, I KNOW this, because according to the in-game lore, that's how the Animus freaking works.

And by pay wall, I meant the freaking in-game money, not real money.

>.>

SHADOWGARVIN
08-04-2014, 08:41 PM
It's very simple.

1 I don't want to be forced to choose a specific build or settle for an average assassin.
2 You keep forgetting that not everyone will play co-op, or even wants to play co-op.

Clearly you're excited about playing co-op with other people and don't want a fully upgradeable assassin. That's fine.
Different people want different things.

Maybe we will know more at gamescom. I hope somebody will ask questions about this.

Xstantin
08-04-2014, 08:52 PM
Different people want different things.

Ugh, the last thing I want is some person trying to prove something, hurr durr, moar kills.

Jexx21
08-04-2014, 09:10 PM
I understand what Sesheenku wants, but I don't think it's applicable to the Assassin's Creed series.

The most I would be able to accept is having a limited number of skill points that you are free to respec at any point, but you have to pay a certain amount of cash to respec (in game cash). This comes from a lot of RPGs as well, like Borderlands, Torchlight, Diablo, etc. It encourages experimentation, which is a whole lot better than having a closed system that doesn't let you respec.

I feel like closed system skill trees that don't let you respec only work with RPGs that can take you down drastically different story paths. Assassin's Creed is not one of those games.

But yea, it's either we can get all the skills by going through various side content, or we have a limited amount of skill points but we're free to respec.

EDIT: Also, there are co-op only skills. You can only have one of these skills (or maybe more than one, but you definitely can't have all of them), those would be what would define your role in co-op.

LoyalACFan
08-04-2014, 10:20 PM
I think we're forgetting weapons in this equation too; they'll surely impact the co-op gameplay as much as skill points will. It appears you'll only be able to carry one weapon at a time, so say one player has an axe, and the other has a rifle. The rifleman can pick off hard targets from a great distance but won't have an effective melee weapon, while the axe guy won't have much in the way of ranged abilities but he'll be a beast in combat.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-04-2014, 10:27 PM
I think we're forgetting weapons in this equation too; they'll surely impact the co-op gameplay as much as skill points will. It appears you'll only be able to carry one weapon at a time, so say one player has an axe, and the other has a rifle. The rifleman can pick off hard targets from a great distance but won't have an effective melee weapon, while the axe guy won't have much in the way of ranged abilities but he'll be a beast in combat.

Do you think we you will be limited to the use of one type of weapon in co-op?

Sesheenku
08-04-2014, 10:36 PM
Uh Arno HAS to have all of the skills we can gain in the game because they're coming from his freaking memories. I don't think this, I KNOW this, because according to the in-game lore, that's how the Animus freaking works.

And by pay wall, I meant the freaking in-game money, not real money.

>.>

Who says they're coming form his memories? What? You just invented that. We've never had skills in AC so how do you know how the "animus works" in this situation? You don't.

Don't waste time with arguments like that, there's plenty of ways to explain it. For example it could be there as an addition to train the player character in a specific way rather than some all around stuff. Which is unnatural btw, NO person is 100% master at every skill.

Pay wall implies out of the game, don't use that term for in game money, it doesn't apply.


It's very simple.

1 I don't want to be forced to choose a specific build or settle for an average assassin.
2 You keep forgetting that not everyone will play co-op, or even wants to play co-op.

Clearly you're excited about playing co-op with other people and don't want a fully upgradeable assassin. That's fine.
Different people want different things.

Maybe we will know more at gamescom. I hope somebody will ask questions about this.

1 -> What the hell? Average assassin? Lololol What kind of tripe argument is this? Seriously? Please sir, do tell me how you are 100% perfect at everything and all of your skills are perfectly equal and all considered master level. Get out of here with that already, it doesn't make sense. Nobody is good at everything 100%, I'm sure that if they had included stats of the "master" assassins Altair, Ezio, Connor, and Edward would all be better at something at least.

2 -> I already stated that it adds to replayability and it makes you use your brain for once instead of mindlessly going forward on rails, picking up every skill that flies in your face simply because you can. Who in their right mind would choose simplicity for the sake of "feeling complete" over another layer of complexity and choice in the game? That's the equivalent of removing the choice of moves in Pokemon, your Pokemon would just learn 4 set moves and you would never choose them but hey at least you can get all the moves right? Wait...

Again our opinions differ and all that but there's no denying that not allowing you to have all the skills at once adds replayability and complexity and requires that you actually think and use your brain to build an assassin tailored to your play style.

The way you and Jexx would have it would require no thought, just play the game and get skills, you don't need to think cause eventually you'll have everything.
---------------------------------

Finally to both of you please do tell me that you 100% believe that Altair, Ezio, Connor, and Edward are at the exact same skill levels in everything. Please tell me how they are equally good at stealth, combat, and parkour and none of them is better than the other at anything because all master assassins are exactly the same.

Hint -> You would sound like a complete fool to say that because it's nonsense.

LoyalACFan
08-04-2014, 10:37 PM
D you think we you will be limited to the use of one type of weapon in co-op?

It looks that way. The players in the E3 demo only carried one long weapon and a pistol. From what I've seen in the trailers/screenshots, we'll be given the choice of rapier, sabre, axe, mace, spear, halberd, fauchard, or rifle. Everyone seems to have a pistol and a hidden blade. There may be more weapons than that (short blades, plz) but that's all I've seen thus far, and if each weapon class has its own unique animations and gameplay elements that's plenty.

Jexx21
08-04-2014, 10:53 PM
fine, the term I was looking for was gold sink

anyway I'm done arguing with you Sesh.

And good point Loyal, the skills won't be the only thing affecting this here, it'll also be the clothes and the weapons. What would be very cool is if you actually were given a certain amount of skill points, but the skills you choose would be limited by your gear. Like, maybe if you're wearing a certain set of robes, you're better at blending in with the crowds, but it's more constricting so you can't perform certain parkour moves, like say the base jump.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-04-2014, 11:07 PM
1 -> What the hell? Average assassin? Lololol What kind of tripe argument is this? Seriously? Please sir, do tell me how you are 100% perfect at everything and all of your skills are perfectly equal and all considered master level. Get out of here with that already, it doesn't make sense. Nobody is good at everything 100%, I'm sure that if they had included stats of the "master" assassins Altair, Ezio, Connor, and Edward would all be better at something at least.

You do make me laugh. This was not an argument. It was an opinion. And yes, the assassin will be average. If you have to choose to either fully upgrade a specific skill, or upgrade all skills equally, it means you have to choose between being part master assassin or being an average assassin.


2 -> I already stated that it adds to replayability and it makes you use your brain for once instead of mindlessly going forward on rails, picking up every skill that flies in your face simply because you can. Who in their right mind would choose simplicity for the sake of "feeling complete" over another layer of complexity and choice in the game? That's the equivalent of removing the choice of moves in Pokemon, your Pokemon would just learn 4 set moves and you would never choose them but hey at least you can get all the moves right? Wait...

This argument may be valid for you, but to me it's absolute nonsense. It adds nothing for me. It shouldn't be simple to get all the skill points. You should earn them. It should be difficult to get the last skill points and fully upgrade your assassin. That would be the challenge. I have played all the AC games 3 or 4 times. I played them again because i thought they were worth my time. I don't have very much free time. I have a full time job as a criminal defense attorney. I'm not going to play a game again only to choose a different build. To me that seems like a complete waist of time.


Again our opinions differ and all that but there's no denying that not allowing you to have all the skills at once adds replayability and complexity and requires that you actually think and use your brain to build an assassin tailored to your play style.

I guess i just did.


The way you and Jexx would have it would require no thought, just play the game and get skills, you don't need to think cause eventually you'll have everything.

Pure nonsense.
---------------------------------


Finally to both of you please do tell me that you 100% believe that Altair, Ezio, Connor, and Edward are at the exact same skill levels in everything. Please tell me how they are equally good at stealth, combat, and parkour and none of them is better than the other at anything because all master assassins are exactly the same.

Hint -> You would sound like a complete fool to say that because it's nonsense.

Foolish indeed. None of those games used skill points. Those games have nothing to do with this discussion.

We can only speculate about this subject. However, based on recent Ubisoft games it would seem that ubisoft favors our way of thinking and not yours.

Sesheenku
08-04-2014, 11:17 PM
fine, the term I was looking for was gold sink

anyway I'm done arguing with you Sesh.

And good point Loyal, the skills won't be the only thing affecting this here, it'll also be the clothes and the weapons. What would be very cool is if you actually were given a certain amount of skill points, but the skills you choose would be limited by your gear. Like, maybe if you're wearing a certain set of robes, you're better at blending in with the crowds, but it's more constricting so you can't perform certain parkour moves, like say the base jump.

Isn't that precisely what you want to avoid by having all skills?

Imo that's a bit too much. In my mind the assassin will be able to do all normal things but with the skill tree will have a particular boost to a certain skill set.

Restrictions in gear can be good but I don't think quite that much restriction is beneficial, most of the missions require some form of parkour it doesn't make sense anyways, why does the outfit increase stealth with crowds but eliminate some parkour moves?

With the "brute" archetype of assassin it would make sense for their gear to come with some kind of decrease in speed and jump height but an outfit that helps with stealth? A more sensible negative would be for it to decrease the amount of potions you can carry or eliminate them for example.

Sensible negatives depending on skill trees could be, decreased speed in all movement for combat gear, decreased carrying capacity for parkour specialists, and elimination of the ability to carry potions for stealth specialists.

Perhaps there will also be a tree for weapons which allows you to boost your ability with a specific weapon.


You do make me laugh. This was not an argument. It was an opinion. And yes, the assassin will be average. If you have to choose to either fully upgrade a specific skill, or upgrade all skills equally, it means you have to choose between being part master assassin or being an average assassin.

Sorry that makes no realistic sense. There's absolutely no such thing as a person who's good at everything perfectly equal. You know that to be true. Just because you have a masters degree in teaching math doesn't necessarily mean you're not better at teaching division than you are fractions. Just because Arno is a master assassin doesn't mean he won't be stealthier/faster/stronger than previous assassins.


This argument may be valid for you, but to me it's absolute nonsense. It adds nothing for me. It shouldn't be simple to get all the skill points. You should earn them. It should be difficult to get the last skill points and fully upgrade your assassin. That would be the challenge. I have played all the AC games 3 or 4 times. I played them again because i thought they were worth my time. I don't have very much free time. I have a full time job as a criminal defense attorney. I'm not going to play a game again only to choose a different build. To me that seems like a complete waist of time.

Okay? I go to college and work as well, so what? Just because we no longer have infinite time doesn't mean we should demand that it be more simplistic. Besides are you saying Unity won't be worth your time if it doesn't allow you to grab every skill?




I guess i just did.

You can say that you did but you know better. In games more choices means more thought and more thought means more depth. AC has lacked this in nearly all of it's systems.


Pure nonsense.

At least when I call an argument nonsense I explain why I think it's nonsense, so do me the courtesy of explaining yourself. Saying nonsense doesn't open my eyes or help me understand why you think it's nonsense.

To me it doesn't, not in this case because this game is attempting to give us players a way to express our play styles in a stronger way than before, giving us all the skills takes away from that immensely, if you get a skill you WILL use it and then we're back to the old way of AC where we just adapt to the game rather than having the game adapt to us.

People want challenge and WHAT if this skill tree makes each path very powerful as it should to show proper progression? Then we'll end up with an overpowered invincible assassin once again and we're just back where we started.


Foolish indeed. None of those games used skill points. Those games have nothing to do with this discussion.

We can only speculate about this subject. However, based on recent Ubisoft games it would seem that ubisoft favors our way of thinking and not yours.

It doesn't matter that none of them used skill points, it's about the fact that it's unnatural for any character to be perfect at everything except for gary stu's. This is a chance for them to showcase the individuality of the assassins that make up the brotherhood in a more in depth way.
A chance for them not be just a name and personality but something more, like La Volpe is hinted to be in AC2-ACB.

Yes it seems based on their previous games they do favor your thought process but it matters little, sensible arguments can make them shift course.

The systems of AC have often lacked depth and complexity, only when they give you a proper assassination where you have obstacles to overcome that you're allowed to overcome in your own way does the game show complexity and depth in it's mechanics.

They say they aim to fix this now but on top of this, restricted builds can add even more to that.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't allow you to have all skills but I absolutely disagree with being able to use all skills at once.

Jexx21
08-04-2014, 11:23 PM
I just don't want to have to replay the game to choose different skills. It discourages experimentation.

ShoryukenMan
08-04-2014, 11:27 PM
I want to be able to obtain all skills.

I don't care for multiplayer.

Sesheenku
08-04-2014, 11:43 PM
I just don't want to have to replay the game to choose different skills. It discourages experimentation.

I disagree. I would absolutely start a new game to make a "new Arno" with a different skill set.

In any case as I said a good idea was to allow you to have all the skills but not use all of them at once.

It matters little to me though either of those would be good, my suggestion would allow for more replayability imo but at least the second one still gives builds.

I play lots of games with classes and restricted builds as well so perhaps it's not a big deal for me to just make a new character and try a new build but I find that exciting and enjoyable to experience the game again in a different way.

Jexx21
08-04-2014, 11:56 PM
I can only do that if the story changes drastically as well

I want to be able to jump into a fully completed game, choose the gear I want, and then go to co-op mode.

Also, in case you didn't read this: there are different co-op skills that you can only have one of during the co-op mode.

I think that the Co-op skills + weapons will differentiate you from Assassins regardless of whether or not it's possible to gain all of the skills (not co-op skills, just normal skills) that are available.

chris.hayes151
08-05-2014, 12:00 AM
Tbh I'm with Jexx... much rather be able to get to maybe 60% of all unlocks through the main story, and have 40% of the skill unlocks done through side missions, challenges whatnot.

Similar to how the jackdaw did it... 90% of the upgrades came with money/resources, but to fully upgrade it you had to go out your way, do missions and such. For me thats fine.

(think far cry 3 progression worked a similar way)

Sesheenku
08-05-2014, 12:01 AM
I can only do that if the story changes drastically as well

I want to be able to jump into a fully completed game, choose the gear I want, and then go to co-op mode.

Also, in case you didn't read this: there are different co-op skills that you can only have one of during the co-op mode.

I think that the Co-op skills + weapons will differentiate you from Assassins regardless of whether or not it's possible to gain all of the skills (not co-op skills, just normal skills) that are available.

Well we can continue the discussion once more information is revealed. I can only sit well with the co-op skills if they're well made and really make a difference, same with the weapons.

There's always multiple files in AC so there's nothing stopping you from jumping into a completed game.

The problem as always is use don't want the build to be restricted while on the other hand I personally don't mind it.

As I said I wouldn't have much of a gripe with easily reassignable skill points which I hope if they add that they have the sense to have a feature which allows you to save builds, name them, and switch between them in something like the weapon wheel.


Tbh I'm with Jexx... much rather be able to get to maybe 60% of all unlocks through the main story, and have 40% of the skill unlocks done through side missions, challenges whatnot.

Similar to how the jackdaw did it... 90% of the upgrades came with money/resources, but to fully upgrade it you had to go out your way, do missions and such. For me thats fine.

(think far cry 3 progression worked a similar way)

I realize that most people do not appreciate this type of restriction when it comes to AC but I must state my desires nonetheless.

I admit that I personally do not understand the need to have all skills, people seem to feel as if Arno would be inadequate or something. I personally disagree, I believe he'll be good at everything but noticeably better at what you place skills in.

Other people seem to believe that without skills that Arno will be trash in the aspects he doesn't skill which just doesn't make sense for Ubisoft to do, even if we were restricted we don't know how much restriction would be placed. What skills does the average player require to feel adequate? Are they afraid their eagle vision will be worthless? their stealth? their combat? Which one has the average player afraid to have a restricted build?

SHADOWGARVIN
08-05-2014, 12:14 AM
ISorry that makes no realistic sense. There's absolutely no such thing as a person who's good at everything perfectly equal. You know that to be true. Just because you have a masters degree in teaching math doesn't necessarily mean you're not better at teaching division than you are fractions. Just because Arno is a master assassin doesn't mean he won't be stealthier/faster/stronger than previous assassins.

True, but that depends on your playstyle. Shouldn't you be able to choose a different approachfor every mission?


IOkay? I go to college and work as well, so what? Just because we no longer have infinite time doesn't mean we should demand that it be more simplistic. Besides are you saying Unity won't be worth your time if it doesn't allow you to grab every skill?

No, I'm sure i will play unity a lot and complete it more than once, but it won't be to choose a different build.


IYou can say that you did but you know better. In games more choices means more thought and more thought means more depth. AC has lacked this in nearly all of it's systems.

That may be true, but i didn't like the previous games any less because of it.


IAt least when I call an argument nonsense I explain why I think it's nonsense, so do me the courtesy of explaining yourself. Saying nonsense doesn't open my eyes or help me understand why you think it's nonsense.

I didn't think it needed any explaining. I said it was nonsense because i never said you didn't have to think to get all the skill points. I want it to be a challenge. It should be hard.


To me it doesn't, not in this case because this game is attempting to give us players a way to express our play styles in a stronger way than before, giving us all the skills takes away from that immensely, if you get a skill you WILL use it and then we're back to the old way of AC where we just adapt to the game rather than having the game adapt to us.

I don't think it takes anything away from the game. It gives players an incentive to complete the side missions.
Of course you still need to adapt to the game. There will still be optional objectives. You have to complete the mission in a specific way.


People want challenge and WHAT if this skill tree makes each path very powerful as it should to show proper progression? Then we'll end up with an overpowered invincible assassin once again and we're just back where we started.

Earning the skill points should be challenging.

Sesheenku
08-05-2014, 12:28 AM
True, but that depends on your playstyle. Shouldn't you be able to choose a different approachfor every mission?

Nothing's stopping you, there's no reason not to play differently just because you don't have skills in a certain build. In my mind Arno will likely be normal, just like all the other assassins for the MOST part and the skills will just boost a certain other play style, which means that playing differently than your build shouldn't be more than a bit more difficult than previous games.


No, I'm sure i will play unity a lot and complete it more than once, but it won't be to choose a different build

Well of course but that would be a nice bonus to experience it in a slightly new way don't you think?




That may be true, but i didn't like the previous games any less because of it.

I love the previous games but I could love them more if there was more depth in more of their systems, I think now is a good time for me to call for that kind of change.



I didn't think it needed any explaining. I said it was nonsense because i never said you didn't have to think to get all the skill points. I want it to be a challenge. It should be hard.

There's pros and cons to both of those of course, the side content to upgrade AC4 was quite frankly dull and repetitive, do you have confidence that they can create engaging missions to gain skill points? Quite frankly I don't yet, they haven't shown that they're willing to put in the effort to make not just a good or great game but an amazing game.

It's not the reason I want restricted builds but it certainly pushes me forward for it, I don't want to do repetitive side tasks and consume my time in tedium just to get the skills, much like at the end of Tomb Raider, all you do is go and shoot people in the face and collect what you missed at the end to get all the skills. Then you have all of them and... that's it, there's nothing to do, there's no reason to have wasted the time.

So unless they have side content up to par with the homestead missions in story and up to par with AC1's assassination missions game play then I don't want to have to do side content to fill out my skills. I'll do it anyways cause it's available but I won't like it.

That's a lot of my history in AC, I love most of the games but there are parts i just despise in some of them, that I get through because I feel obliged to or downright have to rather than wanting to. It shouldn't be like that, I know for a fact that there's ways they could make it fun in all ways and at all times because there are other games that do precisely that.





I don't think it takes anything away from the game. It gives players an incentive to complete the side missions.
Of course you still need to adapt to the game. There will still be optional objectives. You have to complete the mission in a specific way.

What if the side missions are as low quality as they've been in the past? Repetitive tasks that add nothing to the narrative or offer an interesting game play experience? It shouldn't be a chore to get the skills, difficult yes, boring as all hell no.





Earning the skill points should be challenging.

Yes but what do you have in mind and do you have confidence that Ubisoft will implement it that way? Challenging=/=Tedious btw, whatever you have in mind make sure it's actually difficult and not just tedious busy work as upgrading the ship was in AC4, which again all there was to that was collecting items from the few repetitive side activities to upgrade it.

That's not good enough for me and it shouldn't be good enough for anyone. We should be pushing for game companies to make side content that is equally as engaging as their main story lines.

There's nothing I hate more than side activities that lead to a dull or unsatisfying conclusion, what is there to do in SP if you beat the game and then you go and you do the side missions they have for skill points, at the end you have all the skills... then what? The game's over, you just did the side missions? What is there to do with them? What was the point other than to simply complete the side content and have all the skills?

SHADOWGARVIN
08-05-2014, 12:45 AM
Well of course but that would be a nice bonus to experience it in a slightly new way don't you think?

I can understand that it may be interesting for some people to play the game multiple times with different builds and maybe I would find it enjoyable. I'm always prepared to try new things.


There's pros and cons to both of those of course, the side content to upgrade AC4 was quite frankly dull and repetitive, do you have confidence that they can create engaging missions to gain skill points? Quite frankly I don't yet, they haven't shown that they're willing to put in the effort to make not just a good or great game but an amazing game.

They had 4 years to come up with interesting side content. I hope that it will be worth the extra effort.


I don't want to do repetitive side tasks and consume my time in tedium just to get the skills... So unless they have side content up to par with the homestead missions in story and up to par with AC1's assassination missions game play then I don't want to have to do side content to fill out my skills. I'll do it anyways cause it's available but I won't like it.

I completely agree.


What if the side missions are as low quality as they've been in the past? Repetitive tasks that add nothing to the narrative or offer an interesting game play experience? It shouldn't be a chore to get the skills, difficult yes, boring as all hell no.

That would be unacceptable. If Ubisoft wants us to take the time to complete the side content, they need to make sure that it's worth the extra time. It has to be great.


There's nothing I hate more than side activities that lead to a dull or unsatisfying conclusion, what is there to do in SP if you beat the game and then you go and you do the side missions they have for skill points, at the end you have all the skills... then what? The game's over, you just did the side missions? What is there to do with them? What was the point other than to simply complete the side content and have all the skills?

I agree. It has to worth the extra effort. Otherwise it's pointless.

Sesheenku
08-05-2014, 01:04 AM
I can understand that it may be interesting for some people to play the game multiple times with different builds and maybe I would find it enjoyable. I'm always prepared to try new things.



They had 4 years to come up with interesting side content. I hope that it will be worth the extra effort.



I completely agree.



That would be unacceptable. If Ubisoft wants us to take the time to complete the side content, they need to make sure that it's worth the extra time. It has to be great.



I agree. It has to worth the extra effort. Otherwise it's pointless.

It seems we've all found some common ground then.

I look forward to further discussion once they reveal more.

Let's hope regardless of which way they do this that they put the effort to make it the quality level we expect.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-05-2014, 09:25 AM
It seems we've all found some common ground then.

I look forward to further discussion once they reveal more.

Let's hope regardless of which way they do this that they put the effort to make it the quality level we expect.

Indeed. So do I. Luckily gamescom is next week, I hope we hear some new information. Maybe someone will ask specific questions about the upgradeability of Arno.

masterfenix2009
08-05-2014, 12:36 PM
Hmm......it seems people have completely different views for the skills system. I have the exact same reaction/ opinion to both of them.

If you can get every skill in one play through, cool. I will probably just pick a play style I like and do the same play style over and over again for every plathrough of the game that I play.

If we have a limited amount of skill we can get in on play through, cool. I will probably just pick a play style I like, and I will do the same play style over and over again for every play through of the game I play.

RzaRecta357
08-05-2014, 05:23 PM
Why are people just assuming we can't change them anyway? I mean we can't in Watch Dogs or anything but you can eventually just unlock everything. I assume either the same here or the Cafe will have a reskill spot.

Sesheenku
08-05-2014, 05:59 PM
Why are people just assuming we can't change them anyway? I mean we can't in Watch Dogs or anything but you can eventually just unlock everything. I assume either the same here or the Cafe will have a reskill spot.

Well, people tend to go by trends and Ubisoft has started a trend for simple skill trees. Action/Adventure games as a whole have a trend for simplistic "get every skill" type skill trees as well.

I would prefer it not be like Watch Dogs as that is another game that disappoints largely because of its simplicity. Ubisoft needs to stop that. We want depth and complexity not simple things that are meh enough to almost be considered window dressing, much like the one button hacking.

There can be depth in the game play but the features and mechanics themselves offer no such thing. For me it's the reason none of their recent games are yet amazing, they have the means to do so but they need to put in the effort and give the player more to think about, especially in character progression.

Fatal-Feit
08-05-2014, 06:15 PM
I prefer being able to unlock the whole skill tree in one playthrough. It doesn't have to be easy, or accessible by the end of the game. Keep players striving for the ability points, make it like Saint Rows IV. Players can either spend hours and hours of their time honing their skills to become one massive Assassin, or just a few on one skill set at a time.

Limiting the player's capabilities for the sake of replayability is cheap and unnecessary, IMO.

Sesheenku
08-06-2014, 12:25 AM
I prefer being able to unlock the whole skill tree in one playthrough. It doesn't have to be easy, or accessible by the end of the game. Keep players striving for the ability points, make it like Saint Rows IV. Players can either spend hours and hours of their time honing their skills to become one massive Assassin, or just a few on one skill set at a time.

Limiting the player's capabilities for the sake of replayability is cheap and unnecessary, IMO.

It depends on your view. At the least, skill tree provide a more meaningfully different experience when restricted, not like say full sync requirements which are artificial replayability at it's finest

I highly doubt if they allow you to get all skills that any AC player with the time to do so will avoid getting them. It's like if they put a chest with 200,000 florins in Venice and all you have to do to get it is kill 100 guards. It may be tedious and time consuming but you know you're going to do it... it's 200k florins after all.

Plus if they just do it like Tomb Raider does, in which you just doing boring and repetitive tasks to collect the last few skills, they'd be doing the fan base a favor to just go with restricted builds and when is the last time Ubisoft made a good set of side content?

I can count the Tombs in AC2-ACR, Borgia Towers in ACB, Homestead/Naval/Forts/Kidd stuff in AC3 and the Treasure hunting/Diving in AC4 the rest of the side content was repetitive or just wasn't as enjoyable as the other stuff.

I have no confidence in them to create an enjoyable way to get all the skills if they allow all of them in there and they aren't able to be retrieved in the main story/murder mysteries/treasure hunts.

If they're going to allow all the skills their best way would be to level up skills through usage. Everyone has every skill at level 1 at the start and you can improve them through usage.

Fatal-Feit
08-06-2014, 01:32 AM
It depends on your view. At the least, skill tree provide a more meaningfully different experience when restricted, not like say full sync requirements which are artificial replayability at it's finest

It can still be a meaningful different experience. One person can easily focus on team play and medic while another focuses on combat or stealth. Forcibly limiting players from the start is still just cheap.


I highly doubt if they allow you to get all skills that any AC player with the time to do so will avoid getting them. It's like if they put a chest with 200,000 florins in Venice and all you have to do to get it is kill 100 guards. It may be tedious and time consuming but you know you're going to do it... it's 200k florins after all.

That's the point, though. They did it, and got their reward for the work. The point of a skill tree are for the players to work on the requirements to unlock exactly what they want. Being able to access everything doesn't make it less rewarding, it just means they focused a lot of time and effort into it.

Take for example;
Player A and B starts unity. Each glances at the skill tree. Player A decides to be a stealth with partial combat oriented player while B focuses on being tactical and a medic. Throughout the campaign they've abide by their limitations. By the end of the game, they've finally mastered their set skill tree. What then? Well, player A can go ahead and focus on parkour and medic while player B may also stretch out and focus on focus on stealth and combat. As you can see, not being restricted still offers the experience you want and actually more.


Plus if they just do it like Tomb Raider does, in which you just doing boring and repetitive tasks to collect the last few skills, they'd be doing the fan base a favor to just go with restricted builds and when is the last time Ubisoft made a good set of side content?

I don't get it. What's keeping them from doing the same thing by limiting players? If anything, they're offering more than less. --Which I pretty sure is better than nothing.


I have no confidence in them to create an enjoyable way to get all the skills if they allow all of them in there and they aren't able to be retrieved in the main story/murder mysteries/treasure hunts.

We don't have any information on how we upgrade Arno's skill sets. I'm pretty sure it's by using the points we get from completing missions and such, which are the same for all skill sets. So if someone's a medic, they develop as quick as a tactitian, no?


If they're going to allow all the skills their best way would be to level up skills through usage. Everyone has every skill at level 1 at the start and you can improve them through usage.

Maybe. I'm betting it's from skill points in which you obtain from completing missions and quests.

JustPlainQuirky
08-06-2014, 01:33 AM
I totally forgot Unity existed until someone bumped this thread.

Sesheenku
08-06-2014, 02:05 AM
It can still be a meaningful different experience. One person can easily focus on team play and medic while another focuses on combat or stealth. Forcibly limiting players from the start is still just cheap.

I can't find myself agreeing. When it comes to things like skill trees some kind of limit means the player has to really think rather than just click on skills when they have the points.

Besides who would limit a player to just one skill tree? It's not like if it was limited you can only be one type of character, the skill points would be limited but you can still put them where you want, you just wouldn't be able to overpowered and have every single skill.

I like the idea of them adding some complexity for once, there's a lot less when you know in time you can just do everything. There's still a little thought about what skills to get first but in the end you have them all anyways.

It's hard to discuss this with little information but yeah.


That's the point, though. They did it, and got their reward for the work. The point of a skill tree are for the players to work on the requirements to unlock exactly what they want. Being able to access everything doesn't make it less rewarding, it just means they focused a lot of time and effort into it.

Seems like the difference between a common laborer who has to work hard because they don't have the intelligence to do well otherwise and an educated person with a degree who works less and makes more.

The only requirement in the game to unlock a skill is going to be a skill point, the character progression will feel empty imo if all we're doing is gathering skill points to unlock everything, it devolves from a mechanic that could have required thought to one that simply requires tedious busy work.


Take for example;
Player A and B starts unity. Each glances at the skill tree. Player A decides to be a stealth with partial combat oriented player while B focuses on being tactical and a medic. Throughout the campaign they've abide by their limitations. By the end of the game, they've finally mastered their set skill tree. What then? Well, player A can go ahead and focus on parkour and medic while player B may also stretch out and focus on focus on stealth and combat. As you can see, not being restricted still offers the experience you want and actually more.

Why would anyone one do that if they have all the skills available to them? Besides that's silly, why should we only be able to get a second skill tree when the game is complete? IMO we should have enough to skill 2 or nearly 2 trees and at the end perhaps have a few to throw in other trees. This gives it a variety without being too limiting

Naturally we don't know how they'll do it and our opinions will change as they reveal more but I believe that's how they should do it.

Essentially one player can get say combat and weapons and drop a little bit into eagle vision by the end of the SP, earlier if they do more missions that offer points besides the main story.



I don't get it. What's keeping them from doing the same thing by limiting players? If anything, they're offering more than less. --Which I pretty sure is better than nothing.

If you're limited in skill points to the points you get from a set amount of main missions and then maybe the murder mysteries and treasure hunts (which are bound to be this games enjoyable side content)

Then there's no scenario where you beat the game and have nothing to do but get skills for the sake of getting all the skills.


We don't have any information on how we upgrade Arno's skill sets. I'm pretty sure it's by using the points we get from completing missions and such, which are the same for all skill sets. So if someone's a medic, they develop as quick as a tactitian, no?

Who knows and I don't see how you could compare to different paths in speed of development anyways. It may end up that certain paths require more points than others to complete IF you want to complete them.




Maybe. I'm betting it's from skill points in which you obtain from completing missions and quests.

I made a suggestion I know that they're likely just going to make it as simplistic as possible.

Fatal-Feit
08-06-2014, 02:41 AM
I can't find myself agreeing. When it comes to things like skill trees some kind of limit means the player has to really think rather than just click on skills when they have the points.

Besides who would limit a player to just one skill tree? It's not like if it was limited you can only be one type of character, the skill points would be limited but you can still put them where you want, you just wouldn't be able to overpowered and have every single skill.

I like the idea of them adding some complexity for once, there's a lot less when you know in time you can just do everything. There's still a little thought about what skills to get first but in the end you have them all anyways.

It's hard to discuss this with little information but yeah.

The players' limitations are their time and effort. It's not like skill will be instantly accessible the moment a player begins the game. They will still look at the skill tree and plan what they're going to do. Force limiting the player actually adds less complexity. It just makes thing a whole lot simpler. Player A will just rank everything that involves combat and medic, and that's the end of it. By being unlimited, a player can make more choices, spend more time experimenting and trying out different plays.

And so far you're assuming that finishing all the skill sets will make players OP. From my experiences in the consecutive MP, that's really not the case.


Seems like the difference between a common laborer who has to work hard because they don't have the intelligence to do well otherwise and an educated person with a degree who works less and makes more.

The only requirement in the game to unlock a skill is going to be a skill point, the character progression will feel empty imo if all we're doing is gathering skill points to unlock everything, it devolves from a mechanic that could have required thought to one that simply requires tedious busy work.

That's Assassin's Creed in a nutshell. And I still don't see how this isn't in effect with limited skills... As I repeated, person A and B will still have to make the effort for the rest of the skill points. But as of their first play through, focusing on a certain set is the logical priority. No unintelligent person will herp-derp everything because it's not limited. They will still make an effort to plan things out for better scenarios.


Why would anyone one do that if they have all the skills available to them? Besides that's silly, why should we only be able to get a second skill tree when the game is complete? IMO we should have enough to skill 2 or nearly 2 trees and at the end perhaps have a few to throw in other trees. This gives it a variety without being too limiting

Naturally we don't know how they'll do it and our opinions will change as they reveal more but I believe that's how they should do it.

Essentially one player can get say combat and weapons and drop a little bit into eagle vision by the end of the SP, earlier if they do more missions that offer points besides the main story.

Maybe because it'd be stupid to? Are you telling me that because things aren't limited, you will go crazy and not care what you rank? There's an MMO I play, it's called Mabinogi. It's known for allowing player's progression. You can essentially rank and unlock everything instead of making 20 billion characters for no reason. From my experiences, there have never been one person who ranked everything straight away because it's all accessible to him. --Even if he spends his life time ranking everything. Everyone I've met in that game have taken the time and effort to focus on a few skill sets to match their play. And when they've finally, after countless hours and efforts, completed the following trees, they moved on to the other skill sets. Everything you described is still available when everything available... Except you have less, which makes things simpler and brain-dead, if anything. Person A wants to be combat oriented. All he needs to do is finish the skill trees the revolve around combat and that's the end of that playthrough. He now needs to unnecessarily start an entirely new game and place that exact effort into a new Arno when he could be using it to beef up his original.

Also, don't forget that your attires will differentiate your stats from another. Ranking everything that revolves around stealth won't make you any better than a person who's entirely gear is set around stealth. --Or so I hope. I think that's something to your liking.



If you're limited in skill points to the points you get from a set amount of main missions and then maybe the murder mysteries and treasure hunts (which are bound to be this games enjoyable side content)

Then there's no scenario where you beat the game and have nothing to do but get skills for the sake of getting all the skills.

IIRC, you get skill points depending on how well you complete the missions. They are also replayable. Not being restricted is a good incentive for replaying missions and such.


Who knows and I don't see how you could compare to different paths in speed of development anyways. It may end up that certain paths require more points than others to complete IF you want to complete them.

Possibly. That's a good point. And all the more reason to be unrestricted.


I made a suggestion I know that they're likely just going to make it as simplistic as possible.

Which is why I'm assuming it's skill points or something of the sort. Hopefully we get more info in the next few weeks and such.

Sesheenku
08-06-2014, 05:56 AM
The players' limitations are their time and effort. It's not like skill will be instantly accessible the moment a player begins the game. They will still look at the skill tree and plan what they're going to do. Force limiting the player actually adds less complexity. It just makes thing a whole lot simpler. Player A will just rank everything that involves combat and medic, and that's the end of it. By being unlimited, a player can make more choices, spend more time experimenting and trying out different plays.

And so far you're assuming that finishing all the skill sets will make players OP. From my experiences in the consecutive MP, that's really not the case.

Time and effort, so busywork in other words. We should strive for more then that.

I have to disagree again, limitations makes you think twice about your choices and makes you consider everything you could want versus what you can actually have.

Everyone is making assumptions it's impossible not to in this discussion atm since there's little info.


That's Assassin's Creed in a nutshell. And I still don't see how this isn't in effect with limited skills... As I repeated, person A and B will still have to make the effort for the rest of the skill points. But as of their first play through, focusing on a certain set is the logical priority. No unintelligent person will herp-derp everything because it's not limited. They will still make an effort to plan things out for better scenarios.

So you see the problem. That SHOULDN'T describe AC, I shouldn't have to say that about AC, it shouldn't be just a bunch of tedious effort. Meh, depends on the difficulty of the game, most of the time in these types of games the skills matter so little that they might as well not be there at all, again Tomb Raider which you can win on any difficulty without even caring about what order you get the skills.

I do worry about this because Ubisoft has a history of making AC games with features that have the illusion of depth without actually having any depth.


Maybe because it'd be stupid to? Are you telling me that because things aren't limited, you will go crazy and not care what you rank? There's an MMO I play, it's called Mabinogi. It's known for allowing player's progression. You can essentially rank and unlock everything instead of making 20 billion characters for no reason. From my experiences, there have never been one person who ranked everything straight away because it's all accessible to him. --Even if he spends his life time ranking everything. Everyone I've met in that game have taken the time and effort to focus on a few skill sets to match their play. And when they've finally, after countless hours and efforts, completed the following trees, they moved on to the other skill sets. Everything you described is still available when everything available... Except you have less, which makes things simpler and brain-dead, if anything. Person A wants to be combat oriented. All he needs to do is finish the skill trees the revolve around combat and that's the end of that playthrough. He now needs to unnecessarily start an entirely new game and place that exact effort into a new Arno when he could be using it to beef up his original.

Again this depends whether or not you even benefit enough from the skills for them to matter. I've already said I have very low confidence in Ubisoft to pull this off. They've given me no reason as of late to think better of them.

Don't compare Mabinogi to this, it doesn't apply at all. Mabinogi is an MMO, meant to be played for months at a time, meant to have extremely long play times and on top of that it's an RPG so by virtue of its genre its mechanics and features all require deep thought and a lot of choice.

I think you misunderstand, as I've said when I ask for "limits" I want enough skills to fill out at least two trees and maybe have a few left over points to grab another few skills. Therefore it isn't brain dead, the player who wants to specialize combat still has another choice to make and then more little choices after that.


Also, don't forget that your attires will differentiate your stats from another. Ranking everything that revolves around stealth won't make you any better than a person who's entirely gear is set around stealth. --Or so I hope. I think that's something to your liking.

As for gear, we'll see how well they implement that, after two games which I didn't really like at all I am VERY skeptical and I'm very worried about the implementation of these features which is why I'm discussing this so much.

I hope they know I don't trust them to do this well and that they read this and make sure to prove me wrong.




IIRC, you get skill points depending on how well you complete the missions. They are also replayable. Not being restricted is a good incentive for replaying missions and such.

Restriction and no restrictions do the same there, the difference is restrictions makes you make a choice every step of the way while no restrictions eventually leads to a point where the choices don't matter.

It's not like if you're already full combat and parkour that you need to be fussy about whether you get Eagle Vision level 3 or Axe mastery level 3 first. Either one is helpful and you can get it all anyways so who cares? Just slap it on and continue your busy work to get the rest later.


Possibly. That's a good point. And all the more reason to be unrestricted.

Debatable, more skills in a tree could be a form of balance, not allowing you to get too many extra skills in a tree that is already powerful.


Which is why I'm assuming it's skill points or something of the sort. Hopefully we get more info in the next few weeks and such.

Oh don't get me wrong I'm assuming they're going to do this the easiest, lamest, and most shallow way possible but MAYBE if they read this they'll change their mind. Cause I'm sick and tired of the simplicity. There's a point where you've simplified your game SO much where it actually fails to meet its full potential. Much like how many people wanted more survival type stuff in TR.

Fatal-Feit
08-06-2014, 06:36 AM
This was a nice discussion, but let's finish it after we get more information.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-06-2014, 12:04 PM
This was a nice discussion, but let's finish it after we get more information.

We should get some new information next week at gamescom. At least i hope so.

jeordievera
08-06-2014, 12:09 PM
And yet we still don't have Comic Con pannel video... :(

wvstolzing
08-06-2014, 01:35 PM
And yet we still don't have Comic Con pannel video... :(

Forum members gave a live transcription of it; it's on a thread with the appropriate name (down a couple of pages maybe)----it was nothing special.

bitebug2003
08-15-2014, 01:36 PM
As a solo player I'm pleased the Brotherhood missions can be completed on your own (at least that what he implied).

Locopells
08-15-2014, 02:50 PM
They've said that a few times now, so yeah, me too.

jeordievera
08-15-2014, 05:32 PM
As a solo player I'm pleased the Brotherhood missions can be completed on your own (at least that what he implied).
Me too I really like to get all the key targets on my own so I will probably firstly try and finish it by myself.