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LieutenantRex
07-30-2014, 04:58 PM
i was just curious to know because in other AC games there weren't many women.

JustPlainQuirky
07-30-2014, 04:59 PM
At least two I imagine. Elise and Charolette Corday.

A lot if you count all the women from the women's march.

LoyalACFan
07-30-2014, 04:59 PM
None, Elise is secretly a guy

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-30-2014, 05:01 PM
If you mean women as in general, I'd say plenty.

But as in main or important characters, I'd say only a few since we have yet to know who they are yet besides Elise, Corday and Antoinette.

jayjay275
07-30-2014, 05:02 PM
None, Elise is secretly a guy

Yeah, we have to remember that Elise is Connor, who had a sex change because he didn't know what to do with his life once his purpose in life was reached.

aL_____eX
07-30-2014, 05:06 PM
I guess there will be a lot of female NPCs. :rolleyes:

But seriously, I think Elise will play a huge role for the story and Marie Antoinette will also be a part of it. Plus Charlotte Corday... that makes at least three more or less important female characters.

jeordievera
07-30-2014, 05:07 PM
Yeah, we have to remember that Elise is Connor, who had a sex change because he didn't know what to do with his life once his purpose in life was reached.

So none because Corday is Lafayette.

jayjay275
07-30-2014, 05:28 PM
So none because Corday is Lafayette.

Ah, I can't wait to see Lafayette and Connor rejoicing with their new bodies.

Seriously though, I'm sure there will be plenty of female NPCs.

Ureh
07-31-2014, 03:49 AM
Uh... I guess they might also show Arno's mother.

LoyalACFan
07-31-2014, 04:22 AM
Uh... I guess they might also show Arno's mother.

Nope, he was raised by two dads :rolleyes:

Fatal-Feit
07-31-2014, 04:22 AM
This is next-gen, guys. I'm expecting at least 3 female character models. Or maybe that's just too optimistic.

travilanche
07-31-2014, 04:50 AM
What is with the obsession with putting women in this franchise all of a sudden? I don't get it.

SixKeys
07-31-2014, 07:37 AM
What is with the obsession with putting women in this franchise all of a sudden? I don't get it.

Yeah, we should totally ignore half the human race!

LoyalACFan
07-31-2014, 07:51 AM
Yeah, we should totally ignore half the human race!

I can sort of see where he's coming from though; female Assassins have been requested for a long time, but I dunno why people are acting like everyone at Ubisoft is a horrible sexist because they chose to make Arno a man. I mean, Shao Jun in China is my #1 wish for the next game, but I'm not going to cry foul if the next protagonist is male again.

SixKeys
07-31-2014, 08:37 AM
I can sort of see where he's coming from though; female Assassins have been requested for a long time, but I dunno why people are acting like everyone at Ubisoft is a horrible sexist because they chose to make Arno a man. I mean, Shao Jun in China is my #1 wish for the next game, but I'm not going to cry foul if the next protagonist is male again.

I assume you're a guy, so why would you cry foul? Your gender isn't the one being constantly ignored or denigrated. Did you see the Elise statue? They carved her so that you can see her arse through her coat, despite the fact that the direction the wind is blowing would make it physically impossible. What a subtle way of making it appear like Ubi cares about their female audience whilst obviously catering to male consumers. "Look, ladies! We made a statue of one of our female characters! So as you can see, we're totally not sexist. Psst, guys, check out that sweet ***. We carved it especially for you."

Jexx21
07-31-2014, 08:46 AM
Except the wind is blowing in that direction...

https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10441193_531839370250310_4505513514457818654_n.jpg ?oh=8aa94f0cada3c9f6a9ad891928816301&oe=54441F94
https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/l/t1.0-9/1901343_531839330250314_3564402025762624921_n.jpg

and I'd be more concerned about the fact that her shirt is hugging her breasts and her abdomen in general in a much tighter fashion than anything that's being done to her butt. I also need to say that it's not like the statue is actually done by Ubisoft, it's done by another studio that they hire. Of course, they do approve the designs, so I guess you could have an argument on that aspect...

Also... you have a female character in your signature who is designed to be sexy to appeal to male consumers... You can make arguments against doing that all you want, but it does lower the credibility of your argument slightly. Of course, everyone is a hypocrite in some form or fashion, so I'm probably not one to talk.

jeordievera
07-31-2014, 09:01 AM
Oh come on, I think all of this arguing is quite silly. How about Connor, do men feel like it was sexist to show him barechested? Or him running around in almost no clothes in winter in TOKW? :)

Jexx21
07-31-2014, 09:08 AM
I thought that it was stupid that he was running around in the snow dressed in only a wolf pelt, yes.

I can even admit that it was appealing to female consumers, seeing as a lot of the female Connor fans went gaga over that design. But it's not like it offended me or anything. Dude is muscular.

Locopells
07-31-2014, 10:23 AM
Don't let this become another diversity thread, please, we already have one of those...

m4r-k7
07-31-2014, 10:33 AM
But what about all of the other annual games such as CoD, Battlefield and then other games such as GTA 5 (which had 3 main male protagonists), Halo - where is all the hate for those companies for not doing female protagonists? Why is it only Ubisoft that gets the hate - its crazy to me. I only want a female protagonist if they do it right and they aren't over sexualised as always. I would love to have a female assassin but the hate Ubisoft get is crazy when in reality, there are very little games that have female protagonists compared to those with males. So don't just hate Ubisoft, hate gaming in general lol

jeordievera
07-31-2014, 10:46 AM
^^^ because of a simple missunderstanding. Ubisoft showed their co-op with 4 dudes, then stated it would be too difficult to animate women.
What was missing is the fact that EVERYBODY plays as ARNO and you just see random faces.

m4r-k7
07-31-2014, 10:47 AM
^^ Exactly - they should have stated it much clearer then they wouldn't be in this mess. I dont have a clue why they would bring the animation bit into it.

Jexx21
07-31-2014, 11:02 AM
it's not so much the animations but rather recreating the multitudes of male customization options for females.

Tbh I think it might be possibly that we'll play as Elise in the last sequence and that she'll see Arno die. Like in Killzone Shadow Fall.

AssassinHMS
07-31-2014, 11:36 AM
I assume you're a guy, so why would you cry foul? Your gender isn't the one being constantly ignored or denigrated. Did you see the Elise statue? They carved her so that you can see her arse through her coat, despite the fact that the direction the wind is blowing would make it physically impossible. What a subtle way of making it appear like Ubi cares about their female audience whilst obviously catering to male consumers. "Look, ladies! We made a statue of one of our female characters! So as you can see, we're totally not sexist. Psst, guys, check out that sweet ***. We carved it especially for you."

I'm pretty sure that is the exact thing that motivates, at least, 90% of the people who specifically say they want a female main character.

I would actually enjoy an AC game with a female protagonist but without any sort of romance or revealing outfits. I would enjoy it, not for the sake of having a playable female Assassin (because, honestly, I prefer to play as male characters, especially if they are similar to me in looks), but because I would be able to see if the simple act of changing the protagonist's gender (without anything deliberately sexually stimulating) would be enough to satisfy those who supposedly stand for diversity or the ones that mock Ubisoft for said reasons.

Honestly I never thought this was a big deal as the girls I know, who play AC games, don’t seem to mind at all that the main Assassins are almost exclusively male.

Locopells
07-31-2014, 12:15 PM
Don't let this become another diversity thread, please, we already have one of those...

If I have to say this a third time, I wlll close this.

We're also running close to the new rules on thread hi-jacking here...

RinoTheBouncer
07-31-2014, 01:06 PM
Who cares? I’m just super happy that we’re getting Elise and that she’s a Templar, or so she seems to be and if that isn’t enough, she’s fighting side by side with Arno so that will really make the whole Assassins vs. Templars conflict to look more interesting now that we have some sort of an alliance and that one is portrayed by a man and the other is portrayed by a woman. It looks interesting. Reminds me of Altair and Maria. Maybe this time, Elise will convince Arno to join the Templars. Makes an interesting plot twist.
Honestly I never thought this was a big deal as the girls I know, who play AC games, don’t seem to mind at all that the main Assassins are almost exclusively male.I totally agree. Most girls that I know play video games and non of them really complains about the character being male or female or if the female wears revealing clothes or not. Most of them enjoyed playing the classic Tomb Raiders where Lara was portrayed as the typical sexy hollywood movie bad-*** lady. But I guess a lot of feminists just wanna create a conflict out of nothing.

SixKeys
07-31-2014, 01:56 PM
Also... you have a female character in your signature who is designed to be sexy to appeal to male consumers... You can make arguments against doing that all you want, but it does lower the credibility of your argument slightly. Of course, everyone is a hypocrite in some form or fashion, so I'm probably not one to talk.

I'm bisexual, I'm allowed to find women sexy as well. :rolleyes: ;)

I won't deny she's designed with the male gaze in mind, but if I boycotted every female in the game industry for that reason, there would be no female characters whatsoever for me to enjoy. I'll take what I can get, basically, even though I would definitely prefer more diversity in female character design.


Don't let this become another diversity thread, please, we already have one of those...

Look, I get that you're trying to keep the peace here, but why should we be allowed only one diversity thread? People create duplicate threads for much more insignificant topics. We already have like five different topics about Elise and her relationship with Arno, for example. Why are mods always quick to jump in whenever a topic veers onto the subject of diversity but not when people create multiple similar threads about other issues?


Most girls that I know play video games and non of them really complains about the character being male or female or if the female wears revealing clothes or not. Most of them enjoyed playing the classic Tomb Raiders where Lara was portrayed as the typical sexy hollywood movie bad-*** lady. But I guess a lot of feminists just wanna create a conflict out of nothing.

I don't see how your personal anecdotes are relevant. I know a lot of people who would object to a homosexual or black assassin, but you don't see me going: "Well, I know X number of people who object to minority characters in games, so clearly this is not an issue that Ubi should ever address".

I love how a conflict is only about "nothing" when it's an issue you personally don't care about. Modern day not being up to your standards anymore? AC4 being a disappointment to you personally? So important that you create multiple threads on the same topic. But when it's an issue that feminists care about, it's "nothing".

pacmanate
07-31-2014, 02:20 PM
Nope, he was raised by two dads :rolleyes:

Its also Confirmed that Arno is the first test tube weird baby. Two sperms were put together and this made a human, somehow. Then the fertilized arno was put into a surrogate chicken.

Then Arno was born.

LieutenantRex
07-31-2014, 02:39 PM
I'm bisexual, I'm allowed to find women sexy as well. :rolleyes: ;)

You bi people, thinking that the world takes you seriously.

Locopells
07-31-2014, 02:48 PM
Look, I get that you're trying to keep the peace here, but why should we be allowed only one diversity thread? People create duplicate threads for much more insignificant topics. We already have like five different topics about Elise and her relationship with Arno, for example. Why are mods always quick to jump in whenever a topic veers onto the subject of diversity but not when people create multiple similar threads about other issues?

For what it's worth, I've been merging the Elise topics as well.

The point is, given how touchy a subject this is for some people, we keep it all in one place, easy to keep an eye on, and shut down if it turns into a flame war. Not to mention that it's off the topic of the number of woman characters in ACU as well, as per the OP.

LoyalACFan
08-01-2014, 01:16 AM
I assume you're a guy, so why would you cry foul? Your gender isn't the one being constantly ignored or denigrated. Did you see the Elise statue? They carved her so that you can see her arse through her coat, despite the fact that the direction the wind is blowing would make it physically impossible. What a subtle way of making it appear like Ubi cares about their female audience whilst obviously catering to male consumers. "Look, ladies! We made a statue of one of our female characters! So as you can see, we're totally not sexist. Psst, guys, check out that sweet ***. We carved it especially for you."

I already said I hope the next protagonist is Shao Jun :( I'm just saying, I totally understand that sexism needs to be called out when it's there, but I'm just not seeing it in this case. Should the gaming industry be more attentive and equal in its portrayals of women? Absolutely, but I don't understand why Unity in particular is getting so much vitriol directed toward it. Hell, if you want to call out Watch_Dogs (a game I liked pretty well, for the record) for being sexist, I'll back you up all day long. Exactly two female characters in the entire game, one of whom is a helpless, clueless damsel in distress for the entire game and the other has cleavage randomly popping out in every scene and ultimately gets the fridge treatment? Yeah, I definitely smell sexism there. I just don't think it's fair that Unity has so much disproportionate hate thrown at it for something that it doesn't seem to do, or at least do far less than most of its peers. And I think you're totally grasping at straws about the statue; Elise is designed to be pretty, but I don't think she's sexualized at all. Certainly far less than any given MP character or even TOKW Connor.

And I'm going to try to veer back on topic here by tying my point to the OP; I believe women will have a much larger role in Unity than any previous AC game, given the Women's March especially, and this time they won't be relegated to the role of courtesan or "dancer" (TBH if any AC game needs to be called out for being sexist it's Brotherhood).

JustPlainQuirky
08-01-2014, 01:21 AM
I didn't notice Elise's shapely booty in the figure until peeps started to point it out. Her design is fairly tame. It's some cosplayers who usually do the oversexualization of AC characters tbh...

I don't feel ignored because there's not a lot of women in AC. I don't notice that kind of thing cuz it doesn't matter to me TBH.

LoyalACFan
08-01-2014, 01:22 AM
I didn't notice Elise's shapely booty in the figure until peeps started to point it out. Her design is fairly tame. It's some cosplayers who usually do the oversexualization of AC characters tbh...

Esp. Jessica Nigri.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 01:41 AM
Jessica Nigri does it for the money.

I respect her in the way Machiavelli respects Cesare. She knows exactly who she's marketing towards, how to market herself, and she does it very very well. If she enjoys what she's doing, that's more power to her, but she is also part of the over-sexualization to pander to males problem.

JustPlainQuirky
08-01-2014, 01:50 AM
Wow jexx. You worded that pretty well. *claps* I couldn't have said it better. :)

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 03:17 AM
Hispanics, Blacks, and Asians are underrepresented more than women... If anything we should be working to represent more than just women.

LoyalACFan
08-01-2014, 04:50 AM
Hispanics, Blacks, and Asians are underrepresented more than women... If anything we should be working to represent more than just women.

AC is probably the most ethnically diverse series out there though. An Arab VG protagonist is almost unheard of.

JustPlainQuirky
08-01-2014, 04:59 AM
AC is probably the most ethnically diverse series out there though. An Arab VG protagonist is almost unheard of.

Yeah I was about to say. AC is pretty friggin' diverse.

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 05:11 AM
AC is probably the most ethnically diverse series out there though. An Arab VG protagonist is almost unheard of.
Yeah, and I love AC for not having generic, white males.

JustPlainQuirky
08-01-2014, 05:21 AM
The phrase "generic white male" does not bode well with me.

That's still kind of...racist...IMO

Yes, they do make up the majority of video game protagonists but dismissing a protagonist for being white and a dude.....hgnhh...

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 05:33 AM
The phrase "generic white male" does not bode well with me.

That's still kind of...racist...IMO

Yes, they do make up the majority of video game protagonists but dismissing a protagonist for being white and a dude.....hgnhh...
Sorry, but I don't really think it's racist. Maybe because I'm tired of the amount of white protagonists.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 05:36 AM
Racism is just prejudice against someone for the color of their skin.

There's no such thing as reverse racism because racism doesn't apply to just one race or a set of races, it applies to all races.

LoyalACFan
08-01-2014, 05:37 AM
Yeah, and I love AC for not having generic, white males.

Representing minorities =/= never having white characters. Would you have preferred the Renaissance Italy games to star a Polynesian? :rolleyes: Also, shame on you for saying "generic white males," if I called Aveline a "generic black female" I'd be burned at the stake. It's just as racist tbh.

Anyway, we aren't supposed to be talking about ethnic diversity in this thread as per Loco's instruction, so let's veer it on back to the discussion of women in Unity... @Loco, please don't lock this thread yet, 6Keys and me are having a polite debate :(

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 05:42 AM
but seriously, the wind on that statue actually is flowing in a way where the shirt would brush against her butt.

just saying.

It's not like Elise or Aveline (arguably the two most dominant females in the franchise) are even sexualized. Sure, they have pretty faces, but I think all the male characters have had good looking faces so far as well.

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 05:44 AM
Representing minorities =/= never having white characters. Would you have preferred the Renaissance Italy games to star a Polynesian? :rolleyes: Also, shame on you for saying "generic white males," if I called Aveline a "generic black female" I'd be burned at the stake. It's just as racist tbh.

Anyway, we aren't supposed to be talking about ethnic diversity in this thread as per Loco's instruction, so let's veer it on back to the discussion of women in Unity... @Loco, please don't lock this thread yet, 6Keys and me are having a polite debate :(
Well I didn't really mean get rid of white protagonists (love Edward), but just represent more race/gender. BTW there aren't really black women protags in video games besides liberation.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 05:45 AM
Clementine.

JustPlainQuirky
08-01-2014, 05:46 AM
@flaming

'tired of white protagonists'

that in itself is kind of odd though, don't you think? "I'm tired of this skin color, regardless how well-written the character happens to be"

why does it got to be like that?

why judge by race/sex/faith ? why not analyze on an individual basis regardless of biological descriptions? Why not judge by character alone?

why is there 'girl gamer'? to recognize there are women who play video games? if anything, shouldn't a 'girl gamer' identify themself as a normal 'gamer' to show she is like everyone else? that her sex DOESN'T matter? why flaunt it if you want to be seen to be just like everyone else?

judge an individual by their character. not by their genetic code in which they have no control over.

@jexx

yeah but reverse racism is a specific term coined to mean discrimination towards the race that holds the majority if I recall correcty.

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 05:47 AM
Clementine.
That it?

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 05:49 AM
There's that girl from Beyond Good and Evil but I don't knew her name, never played that game.

Xstantin
08-01-2014, 05:53 AM
Does Nilin (Remember Me) count?

JustPlainQuirky
08-01-2014, 05:56 AM
Had to change my sig my jimmies got rustled so much.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 05:57 AM
Listening to an Initiates podcast with Amber Goldfarb (Aveline) and Tristan D Lalla (Agate/Adewale), and either Tristan or EscoBlades (I forget exactly who) made an interesting point that we should celebrate the differences of people and that "I don't see color" isn't exactly the way to go about it, but that he understands why people we go "but we're all human." That was followed up by someone else saying how setting a basis of "we're all human" is good though, so that we can all establish each other as equal, and then we can celebrate our differences and such.

I dunno, I thought that was a little relevant.

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 05:58 AM
I don't judge on race/faith/gender, I just said I wanted to see a more diverse set of character across all forms of media. Loved Eddy btw, thought he was the best protagonist we've had yet.

JustPlainQuirky
08-01-2014, 05:59 AM
Morgan Freeman said it best.

There shouldn't be black history month.

It's just history. American history that should be acknowledged like the rest. Segregating it to show 'appreciation' and 'diversity' just further blurs the line between an individual and the biologial traits he/she happens to carry.

@flaming

Diversity is fine. Dismissing a character for sharing a biological trait common with the majority or praising a character for not sharing a biological trait with the majority just doesn't sit well with me.

The only time that should really be a problem is when someone of a certain race/sex/religion clearly does not fit within the context of the narrative.

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 06:06 AM
@may
Maybe I should've worded my post better. I don't care what race/gender the protagonist is, I'd just like to see a bit more diversity. I've said it before, I don't dismiss characters based on appearances, I liked Edward more than any other AC protagonist we got.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 06:12 AM
mayo*

Xstantin
08-01-2014, 06:16 AM
@Flaming, it's a touchy subject, but look at Jexx's signature, I see diversity there, though what do I know :confused:.

JustPlainQuirky
08-01-2014, 06:17 AM
Eh, perhaps I just got overly defensive again. I'm kind of passionate on the topic of what I believe is 'true' equality.

I'm one of those people who'd rather be in financial debt than accept a scholarship soley for being a minority.

I hate that kind of treatment and it feels dehumanizing to me, even with the good intentions behind it.

HDinHB
08-01-2014, 06:24 AM
AC has had its fair share of female characters, especially considering the male-dominated historic periods we are playing in. AC has done a good job of finding and creating really strong and smart female characters from the Crusades to the Renaissance to the New World, all while maintaining a reasonable sense of historic accuracy. As the most modern of all the AC games, I expect Unity will continue and build on this tradition.

In addition to the French women mentioned by others, here are some important real women's rights activists during the French Revolution:

Etta Palm d'Aelders (arrested)
Marie Gouze (guillotined)
Claire Lacombe (shot, arrested)
Marie-Jeanne Roland (guillotined)
Maybe some of them will appear in Unity.


I would actually enjoy an AC game with a female protagonist...because I would be able to see if the simple act of changing the protagonist's gender (without anything deliberately sexually stimulating) would be enough to satisfy those who supposedly stand for diversity or the ones that mock Ubisoft for said reasons.

I think Aveline already answered that.

HDinHB
08-01-2014, 06:37 AM
@Flaming, it's a touchy subject, but look at Jexx's signature, I see diversity there, though what do I know :confused:.

I dunno, looks pretty biased toward Assassins to me.

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 06:58 AM
I dunno, looks pretty biased toward Assassins to me.

what about this one

http://i.imgur.com/DGmNOMc.png

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 07:05 AM
I don't even understand this thread "how many women will be in unity?" How are we supposed to know

HDinHB
08-01-2014, 07:15 AM
what about this one

ha! Is there such a thing as too much diversity?


I don't even understand this thread "how many women will be in unity?" How are we supposed to know
If we limited threads on this forum to questions we could actually answer without playing the game first, it would be a tiny forum indeed. :p

Back on topic:
Lafayette is a confessed cross-dresser.

FlamingMoh
08-01-2014, 07:26 AM
@jexx
I love your sigs

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 07:53 AM
Thanks, I put a lot of hard work into them

SixKeys
08-01-2014, 08:15 AM
Racism is just prejudice against someone for the color of their skin.

There's no such thing as reverse racism because racism doesn't apply to just one race or a set of races, it applies to all races.

Not exactly. Reverse racism doesn't exist because racism = privilege + power. White people have historically held the most privilege and power, to a level that PoC never could, therefore reverse racism doesn't mean what most people think it means. It's not reverse racism for a black person to call a white person derogatory names - that's prejudice, not racism. The distinction is important because while that one white person may be offended, the insult does not carry the weight of hundreds of years of systemic oppression. Being insulted will not prevent that white person from getting a job the same way a black person's skin color might. It will not force them to be scrutinized every time they enter a convenience store. It will not make them subject to "random" roadside questioning by the police. White people can be discriminated against by PoC, but it's not the same as racism because the discrimination isn't systemic and doesn't carry the same consequences for white people as it does for black people.


As for people asking why AC is getting especially singled out for its lack of diversity, I don't think that's entirely true. There were many reasons why people were initially disappointed by Unity's lack of females:

1) (Lack of) prioritization. The first official poster reveal at E3 showed four scruffy, 20-something, white male characters. For the first time ever AC was going to have co-op, and Ubi made it clear from the start that they hadn't made it a priority to add playable female characters nor PoC.

2) Ubisoft's response to the situation was poorly handled. Instead of immediately making clear that everyone plays as Arno in co-op, they floundered for a few days with nonsensical answers like "we didn't have the resources" (proven wrong almost immediately by one of their own ex-employees, no less).

3) The missed opportunity. So far Ubi have maintained that the reason they haven't had many females in AC is because women just weren't very active in the historical eras they've visited. The French Revolution would have been the perfect historical period for a female assassin. Unity was supposed to represent a fresh new take on everything the series is known for. They've updated the parkour, combat, stealth, city-building, modern day and mission structure. Everything was supposed to be new, except the protagonist looked just like your generic scruffy, 20-something white male. In a time period when women were beginning to demand their rights and actively taking part in the revolution, it would have been perfect timing to introduce a female protagonist in a main console title.

4) AC is supposed to be known for its diversity. AC does indeed have a more diverse cast than most gaming franchises. That's why it's all the more disappointing that out of ten main assassins spread throughout various media (Desmond, Altaïr, Ezio, Connor, Nikolai, Arbaaz Mir, Edward, Adewalé, Aveline, Arno) only one has been female. 1 out of 10. That is ridiculously unbalanced, no matter how you look at it. You can claim it's because women haven't historically always had the freedom to be active, but the assassin order is based on the very concept of defying social injustices, not to mention the idea that the Templars tend to tamper with history books to better reflect their own narrow world view. That's all the excuse you need to introduce a female character working in the shadows, defying social norms placed upon her. For a series that can proudly say they've had several non-white protagonists, it's shameful that only one in ten has been female, and even more shameful when developers keep making flimsy excuses relying on "historical precedence".

Aphex_Tim
08-01-2014, 08:27 AM
None, Elise is secretly a guy

http://oi61.tinypic.com/29o6694.jpg

Aphex_Tim
08-01-2014, 08:41 AM
why judge by race/sex/faith ? why not analyze on an individual basis regardless of biological descriptions? Why not judge by character alone?
.

I wish more people would think like this. To me it just seems common sense.
But it seems this pointless war is just gonna go on forever, regardless of what anyone tries to say.
So with that said, I'm outta here!

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 09:11 AM
4) AC is supposed to be known for its diversity. AC does indeed have a more diverse cast than most gaming franchises. That's why it's all the more disappointing that out of ten main assassins spread throughout various media (Desmond, Altaïr, Ezio, Connor, Nikolai, Arbaaz Mir, Edward, Adewalé, Aveline, Arno) only one has been female. 1 out of 10. That is ridiculously unbalanced, no matter how you look at it. You can claim it's because women haven't historically always had the freedom to be active, but the assassin order is based on the very concept of defying social injustices, not to mention the idea that the Templars tend to tamper with history books to better reflect their own narrow world view. That's all the excuse you need to introduce a female character working in the shadows, defying social norms placed upon her. For a series that can proudly say they've had several non-white protagonists, it's shameful that only one in ten has been female, and even more shameful when developers keep making flimsy excuses relying on "historical precedence".

You're forgetting Shao Jun. I consider her to be the true star of Embers.

Farlander1991
08-01-2014, 09:33 AM
(proven wrong almost immediately by one of their own ex-employees, no less).

I would like to point out, that while Jonathan Cooper was technically correct, the quality of the animations would suffer greatly. He used Aveline as an example of reused animations, and I'm sorry, but a lot (not all) of Connor's animation just doesn't look good on Aveline (it's possible that it wasn't noticeable on PS Vita, but it's very noticeable on HD platforms). Heck, even Edward has problems there and there with Connor's animations.

You can apply all 8000 animations to a female skeleton rig in a few days, yes. But what Jonathan, strangely enough, missed out in his statement, is that then you also have to make sure they all look and work properly (which would be highly noticeable on an HD platform). All 8000 of them or how many they've got. And trust me, they won't, there will be a lot of bugs. And also make sure that all the customization options look properly as well. For a character that you won't even control, but just look at, that's a lot. NPCs have a much-much-much-much lower animation count.

I'm not saying that Ubisoft handled the issue well (it didn't), I'm not saying it didn't miss an opportunity (it did, and I would absolutely endorse a female character for a next-gen AC game), but the resources answer was not non-sensical or unreasonable (in and of itself, that is, they still shouldn't have accidentally implied that an option to actually play as a character of a different gender was, well, an option).

Jexx21
08-01-2014, 09:50 AM
He also was only talking about the animations and completely forgot the other issue of having to reskin all outfits to fit a female rig, which the press also conveniently left out.

Click-bait for the win.

SixKeys
08-01-2014, 10:29 AM
You're forgetting Shao Jun. I consider her to be the true star of Embers.

Maybe you do, but everyone else views Embers as Ezio's grand finale. Shao Jun was important, but by no means the star of the film.

Mr_Shade
08-01-2014, 10:59 AM
And since you all ignored the topic of the thread and proceeded to hijack this one and turn it into a diversity thread, which we already have - I'm locking.

You where all asked a few times to keep to the topic of the thread - or - go post in the other ongoing thread - which you have ignored and steam rolled the thread to suit other agendas.


So, I'm locking and will be handing out infractions.