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View Full Version : For a Victorian London AC: free-running in suits? Yes, they did that



D.I.D.
07-27-2014, 01:19 PM
I hope the developers see this, because I think they'd find it useful. While the post is about Cambridge, the activity wasn't confined to Cambridge. I doubt you could set an AC in Cambridge since the place is too small, and London would have to be the place, but this points to a few things that might inspire such a game.

This was a popular enough pastime in Cambridge that a book was published as a guide to free-running on the roofs of the city's colleges: "The Roof Climber's Guide to Trinity", 1899, which is still available today http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0900891920/hyperallergic-20 . A succession of Cambridge 'buildering' references followed: "Wall and Roof Climbing", 1905; "Climbing in Cambridge: An essay, and some incidents" (1921); and various articles in 1920s editions of Alpine Sports. The tradition continues and many videos, including first-person views, can be seen today on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=free+running+cambridge

The repress in the link above is illustrated with more recent photos from the 1930s, which have themselves been re-published as a full collection, "The Night Climbers of Cambridge (http://www.amcbooks.com/night-climbers-of-cambridge)".

While this was a low-key activity for the runners, just like parkour today, the bulky cameras and lighting made it difficult to document without attracting the attention of police. These photos were mostly staged out of necessity, with the agreement of the police, but they represent a hobby that was going on in secret in the dark on other evenings.

http://hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/nightclimbers7.jpghttp://hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/nightclimbers9.jpghttp://hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/nightclimbers5.jpghttp://hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/nightclimbers6.jpghttp://hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/nightclimbers4.jpghttp://hyperallergic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/nightclimbers2.jpg

m4r-k7
07-27-2014, 01:22 PM
I reckon there will definitely be a Victorian Era AC. Actually, I think the game following Unity will be London.

D.I.D.
07-27-2014, 01:25 PM
I reckon there will definitely be a Victorian Era AC. Actually, I think the game following Unity will be London.

I'm thinking they might be saving the location for when they finally end the series, due to the locations which are said to be inspired by Templar legends: Temple Bar, the Temple station on the Underground, the Inner Temple and Middle Temple Inns Of Court, etc. It would make sense to draw the story to a conclusion in London.

SHADOWGARVIN
07-27-2014, 01:28 PM
I'm thinking they might be saving the location for when they finally end the series, due to the locations which are said to be inspired by Templar legends: Temple Bar, the Temple station on the Underground, the Inner Temple and Middle Temple Inns Of Court, etc. It would make sense to draw the story to a conclusion in London.

They're probably already making a game set in this period.

roostersrule2
07-27-2014, 01:31 PM
I reckon there will definitely be a Victorian Era AC. Actually, I think the game following Unity will be London.Oh god no, we should be going way back in time. What I'd do for an Ancient Greece game.

As for the illegal free runners, imagine walking through London and seeing some dude on top of a castle, I'd **** myself.

SixKeys
07-27-2014, 01:48 PM
Wow, great find, this is really cool.

Locopells
07-27-2014, 11:16 PM
Nice find!

JustPlainQuirky
07-27-2014, 11:17 PM
Victorian London peeps 2pro4mi

D.I.D.
07-27-2014, 11:36 PM
I'm also hoping they won't go too early on this Victorian thing, because I think the most interesting time is the close of the Victorian era going into the Edwardian period.

The biggest reason for this choice in an AC game, as I've mentioned before, is Edward Barton-Wright's Bartitsu club.

For anyone who doesn't know, in 1898 Barton-Wright started advertising his "Bartitsu", a gentleman's martial art that he had developed from observations of Japanese fighting techniques, unified with wrestling, boxing and fencing styles from other cultures. He advertised it as a means of fitness and self-defence for Londoners, allowing them to walk confidently with nothing more deadly than an ordinary walking stick, umbrella, or whatever objects came to hand as improvised weapons. He brought in Japanese fighting masters to assist as teachers, Those masters were soon training both men and women, and the club was among the first self-defence schools to welcome female students in London. Some of those female students became teachers themselves. One of those student-turned-teachers was Edith Margaret Garrud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Margaret_Garrud), who would go on to train members of the Suffragette Movement:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Suffragette-that-knew-jiujitsu.jpg/1920px-Suffragette-that-knew-jiujitsu.jpg

Make no mistake - if you do this and pull a "women difficult to animate" excuse, you're dead to me, Ubisoft.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Copy_of_Montage.jpg

In a 1901 article, journalist Mary Nugent described the Bartitsu Academy of Arts and Physical Culture at Soho's 67B Shaftesbury Avenue as "a huge subterranean hall, all glittering, white-tiled walls, and electric light, with champions prowling around it like tigers". That's your HQ, and this thing writes itself.

m4r-k7
07-27-2014, 11:42 PM
I think it would be a bad decision to set the game towards the end of the Victorian Era as starting in 1887, revolvers became the standard British firearm and so gameplay would be heavily gun based.

As you say though the Barton Wright club would be awesome to see and perhaps getting a chance to use these techniques. Also I would love to see Jack the Ripper, who killed towards the end of the Victorian Era.

Saying that, I would prefer early Victorian Era or even Georgian Era during the Industrial Revolution.

LoyalACFan
07-28-2014, 12:00 AM
I'd kind of prefer the Tudor era to the Victorian, but either one would be cool. But either way, this is one of the coolest things I've seen a user bring to the forum. Kudos, OP :)

m4r-k7
07-28-2014, 12:09 AM
Yup medieval or Tudor England would be absolutely epic

LoyalACFan
07-28-2014, 12:11 AM
I think it would be a bad decision to set the game towards the end of the Victorian Era as starting in 1887, revolvers became the standard British firearm and so gameplay would be heavily gun based.

Revolvers might not be too bad, but it would have to be before they became standard issue. If the Assassin had a revolver, that would only be two more shots than Edward and Connor had, and a rare revolver-carrying elite could spice things up nicely. But if every enemy had them it would get silly, like the Abstergo mission in AC3.


Make no mistake - if you do this and pull a "women difficult to animate" excuse, you're dead to me, Ubisoft

I don't think they ever actually said women are more difficult to animate, just that it would be a lot of wasted work considering they wanted everyone to play as Arno. Technically they could reskin the other co-op players as women, but... why?

D.I.D.
07-28-2014, 12:14 AM
There certainly was a problem with gun crime, and gun battles between police and criminal gangs in the streets, leading to the first (and very poorly observed) British gun law requiring a licence to carry a gun outside the home, but that doesn't mean that you'd have had every officer or guard shooting down such a character as an AC protagonist. There are way more guns on the streets of many countries today, but people don't go shooting at every threat they see. It's not even as if there was a sudden flood of guns in 1887 - gun ownership had been proliferating since their invention, and they'd never been properly regulated.

I think it would be interesting to see the development of London during the Industrial Revolution, but then again it's really hard to pick a ten-to-twenty year stretch when you wouldn't be missing some enormous new piece of London's civic evolution. Pitch it at the end of the era, and you've got everything that the Victorian era introduced in place - bearing in mind that the completion of each new train and Underground station and every new line had a serious effect on its surroundings - and you've also got a politically interesting moment as a time that feels like the past gives way to a new era that is coming to terms with a new sense of modernity: the slow crumbling of the Empire, dismal behaviour in India, desperate new blunders in Africa, Ireland struggling for independence, class politics, gender politics, new technology, transport, communication.

I'd rather they didn't do Jack The Ripper, personally. I really dislike the way this is the must-have request that always comes up for this period, and I think it would be completely underwhelming in practice. The story has been told over and over again, and I can't see how there could be any magic in doing it again just to say "Jack" was a rogue assassin, or a devious Templar. Go back just a decade before the Ripper murders, and you've got the mysterious dissolution of the East India Company: records destroyed, money unaccounted. If ever there was a Victorian spectre which would fit the fictional Templar story like a glove, that's the one, not Jack the Ripper.

LoyalACFan
07-28-2014, 12:25 AM
There certainly was a problem with gun crime, and gun battles between police and criminal gangs in the streets, leading to the first (and very poorly observed) British gun law requiring a licence to carry a gun outside the home, but that doesn't mean that you'd have had every officer or guard shooting down such a character as an AC protagonist. There are way more guns on the streets of many countries today, but people don't go shooting at every threat they see. It's not even as if there was a sudden flood of guns in 1887 - gun ownership had been proliferating since their invention, and they'd never been properly regulated.

I was under the impression that revolvers became standard issue for police in 1887 though? Considering that most of our kills in AC are city guards/soldiers, I could see this becoming a problem.


I think it would be interesting to see the development of London during the Industrial Revolution, but then again it's really hard to pick a ten-to-twenty year stretch when you wouldn't be missing some enormous new piece of London's civic evolution. Pitch it at the end of the era, and you've got everything that the Victorian era introduced in place - bearing in mind that the completion of each new train and Underground station and every new line had a serious effect on its surroundings - and you've also got a politically interesting moment as a time that feels like the past gives way to a new era that is coming to terms with a new sense of modernity: the slow crumbling of the Empire, dismal behaviour in India, desperate new blunders in Africa, Ireland struggling for independence, class politics, gender politics, new technology, transport, communication.

Yeah, the Samuel Fey "leak" earlier this year had me hyped. In any case, I have a feeling London is going to be our next locale (unless there's an Arno sequel that is). It seems to be the next natural step if they're pushing massive crowds and a return to dense urbanity.


I'd rather they didn't do Jack The Ripper, personally. I really dislike the way this is the must-have request that always comes up for this period, and I think it would be completely underwhelming in practice. The story has been told over and over again, and I can't see how there could be any magic in doing it again just to say "Jack" was a rogue assassin, or a devious Templar. Go back just a decade before the Ripper murders, and you've got the mysterious dissolution of the East India Company: records destroyed, money unaccounted. If ever there was a Victorian spectre which would fit the fictional Templar story like a glove, that's the one, not Jack the Ripper.

Have you read my mind? :p I totally agree, Jack the Ripper isn't interesting enough to carry a whole game when there are tons of more interesting mysteries to explore in that era. If there's an AC game set in that time span, they would be remiss to not mention him at all, but I'd like it to be a side mission chain at the absolute most.

m4r-k7
07-28-2014, 12:26 AM
I think it would be interesting to see the development of London during the Industrial Revolution, but then again it's really hard to pick a ten-to-twenty year stretch when you wouldn't be missing some enormous new piece of London's civic evolution. Pitch it at the end of the era, and you've got everything that the Victorian era introduced in place - bearing in mind that the completion of each new train and Underground station and every new line had a serious effect on its surroundings - and you've also got a politically interesting moment as a time that feels like the past gives way to a new era that is coming to terms with a new sense of modernity: the slow crumbling of the Empire, dismal behaviour in India, desperate new blunders in Africa, Ireland struggling for independence, class politics, gender politics, new technology, transport, communication.

The Victorian Era was very much an advancement of the Industrial Revolution although much new legislation was introduced. I think playing during the Industrial Revolution would be pretty cool as you would be able to first hand witness the events and changes of industry in Britain, which I believe would make for an awesome backdrop. You are right that the political factors and the slowly crumbling British Empire would be cool, especially as there was much changes in social attitudes during this time. I think the Victorian Era is perfect for exploring areas such as the introduction of the Metropolitan Police and the fierce opposition they originally recieved. There was a great change in crime and punishment during this era which you are right would be awesome. Whilst I wouldn't mind a Victorian Era AC game for the reasons I just said, I would prefer the Industrial Revolution or perhaps towards the later stages where criminals were being transported to Australia and the Bow Street Runners were gaining significance. However, my preference would probably be Tudor England. They could use the backdrop of the Spanish Armada perhaps, which would re-introduce naval gameplay. The rule of Elizabeth 1 would be awesome for an AC game.

D.I.D.
07-28-2014, 12:27 AM
I don't think they ever actually said women are more difficult to animate, just that it would be a lot of wasted work considering they wanted everyone to play as Arno. Technically they could reskin the other co-op players as women, but... why?

Well, I don't really want to open that up again, but I was using a shorthand for the weak argument ("costly" rather than "difficult", then). Everyone could still be Arno even if one or more of the party appeared to be a woman on your/my screen. I think it would have an effect on how the game, especially a game called "Unity", feels to witness. Really though, after this many games I'd have liked to see a woman in the main role of a main game, especially given the role women played in this revolution. Four women could have been something dramatically different, given that both history and games have a problem of viewing stories through male eyes and overwhelmingly concentrating on men's stories. But here we are, and I'm very much looking forward to playing Unity all the same.

D.I.D.
07-28-2014, 12:32 AM
The Victorian Era was very much an advancement of the Industrial Revolution although much new legislation was introduced. I think playing during the Industrial Revolution would be pretty cool as you would be able to first hand witness the events and changes of industry in Britain, which I believe would make for an awesome backdrop. You are right that the political factors and the slowly crumbling British Empire would be cool, especially as there was much changes in social attitudes during this time. I think the Victorian Era is perfect for exploring areas such as the introduction of the Metropolitan Police and the fierce opposition they originally recieved. There was a great change in crime and punishment during this era which you are right would be awesome. Whilst I wouldn't mind a Victorian Era AC game for the reasons I just said, I would prefer the Industrial Revolution or perhaps towards the later stages where criminals were being transported to Australia and the Bow Street Runners were gaining significance. However, my preference would probably be Tudor England. They could use the backdrop of the Spanish Armada perhaps, which would re-introduce naval gameplay. The rule of Elizabeth 1 would be awesome for an AC game.

Bow Street Runners would be very interesting, although they're really pre-Victorian (dissolved by the end of the 1830s). Channel 4 made a Flash game years ago which might interest you, not sure if it stil works!

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/C/city-of-vice/game/bow-street-runner/game.html

Tudor England would be great, true. There are lots of other periods in London's history which I'd like just as much.

AherasSTRG
07-28-2014, 12:34 AM
Oh god no, we should be going way back in time. What I'd do for an Ancient Greece game

I am greek and I 'd love an AC in ancient Greece. The huge crowds that would meet up in markets each day to discuss politics makes an excellent background for social stealth mechanics. However, I have to admit, there never were any big buildings in ancient Greece apart from the occasional monument to the gods near and there. Most of the buildings were 8 to 20 meters tall, nothing more than that : /.
We do have a very rich fauna in Greece though... Lots of tall trees that could be used for parkour, if the community is willing to return to tree free-running...

m4r-k7
07-28-2014, 12:35 AM
Bow Street Runners would be very interesting, although they're really pre-Victorian (dissolved by the end of the 1830s). Channel 4 made a Flash game years ago which might interest you, not sure if it stil works!

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/C/city-of-vice/game/bow-street-runner/game.html

Tudor England would be great, true. There are lots of other periods in London's history which I'd like just as much.

Yea British history is so awesome, there are so many periods they could do. Even Roman occupied Britain would be awesome! I just have a feeling the game after Unity will be Victorian London as they will be able to use AC Unity's influence on London. The building architecture were quite similar and the whole atmosphere could be awesome. I really want to walk down a dark London alley with incredibly fog and mist effects. Would be incredible. And thanks for the link!

D.I.D.
07-28-2014, 12:41 AM
I was under the impression that revolvers became standard issue for police in 1887 though? Considering that most of our kills in AC are city guards/soldiers, I could see this becoming a problem.

Do you mean the Webley revolver? If so, I think you're thinking of soliders rather than police. You couldn't be armed as a police officer without passing gun training, and the decision to carry was a personal one for each officer, and even then it was more of a protection issue for overnight patrols. It was still quite rare for an ordinary police officer to be carrying a gun by the turn of the 20th century.

GoldenBoy9999
07-28-2014, 03:21 AM
Revolvers might not be too bad, but it would have to be before they became standard issue. If the Assassin had a revolver, that would only be two more shots than Edward and Connor had, and a rare revolver-carrying elite could spice things up nicely. But if every enemy had them it would get silly, like the Abstergo mission in AC3.


Yep the Assassins do have Revolvers. Or at least something that looks like one. I'm guessing only the Assassins have them.

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/assassins-creed-5/thumb/1/13/Screen_Shot_2014-06-10_at_2.55.12_PM.png/468px-Screen_Shot_2014-06-10_at_2.55.12_PM.png You said "that would only be two more shots than Edward and Connor had" but the cowboys and Edward and Connor carried at least two so I'm guessing Arno could too. That would be twelve shots total.

Jexx21
07-28-2014, 03:39 AM
Actually it looks like Arno is only going to carry the one.

LoyalACFan
07-28-2014, 03:44 AM
Yep the Assassins do have Revolvers. Or at least something that looks like one. I'm guessing only the Assassins have them.

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/assassins-creed-5/thumb/1/13/Screen_Shot_2014-06-10_at_2.55.12_PM.png/468px-Screen_Shot_2014-06-10_at_2.55.12_PM.png You said "that would only be two more shots than Edward and Connor had" but the cowboys and Edward and Connor carried at least two so I'm guessing Arno could too. That would be twelve shots total.

Twelve would be WAY too much. You could end basically every fight by spamming the pistol.

Anyway, Arno's gun has multiple barrels which all need to be loaded individually and laboriously like the single-shot pistols in AC4. Later revolvers, such as the ones that would be in question during the late Victorian era, would fire modern-style self-contained metallic cartridges which only need to be placed into the cylinder (all six chambers can easily be loaded in a matter of seconds). A six-shot revolver can realistically be loaded in the amount of time it takes Edward to reload his full four shots, and that reload time was greatly reduced for the sake of gameplay. IMO one revolver would be okay, but two would be way overpowered.

GoldenBoy9999
07-28-2014, 04:31 AM
Yeah I wouldn't want 12 shots either but if Edward could hold the weight of 4 guns then, realistically Arno could muscle 4 as well, but that wouldn't make any gameplay sense.

LoyalACFan
07-28-2014, 05:25 AM
Yeah I wouldn't want 12 shots either but if Edward could hold the weight of 4 guns then, realistically Arno could muscle 4 as well, but that wouldn't make any gameplay sense.

Well I think the only reason they gave Edward four pistols was because he was a pirate, and pirates are practically synonymous with carrying an absurd amount of guns :p Gameplay-wise it was no different than carrying two double-barreled pistols with Connor, but aesthetically it looked better with the pirate theme. Arno seems to be more of an Assassin purist, so I don't think he'd be the type to have a bunch of pistols strapped to his chest.

Plus I think the guns of Edward's time would have been lighter than a revolver since they were made mostly of wood with a metal barrel as opposed to an almost fully metal structure, but Doubleclick seems more well-versed on the topic so maybe he could correct me if I'm wrong. I've never held an antique firearm (and very few modern ones).

Dome500
07-29-2014, 08:45 PM
The series will only end if people stopp buying. So Victorian London could come any time.

I personally would love it, but if they do it then with the typical London feeling and the amazing atmosphere.
I imagine walking through London like I imagine it when reading Sherlock Holmes.

I mean, yes, the time is a different one, but the atmo should be as dense and the typical British culture has to be represented well.

Fatal-Feit
07-29-2014, 08:58 PM
The series will only end if people stopp buying. So Victorian London could come any time.

I personally would love it, but if they do it then with the typical London feeling and the amazing atmosphere.
I imagine walking through London like I imagine it when reading Sherlock Holmes.

I mean, yes, the time is a different one, but the atmo should be as dense and the typical British culture has to be represented well.

I agree, and I would hope that they introduce some sort of dark/light system with it. Also, usable torches like in AC:3.

GoldenBoy9999
07-30-2014, 12:31 AM
I'd take a British one as long as it includes the British countryside. I liked how it was in Sir, You are Being Hunted.

Ureh
07-30-2014, 04:52 AM
Well I think the only reason they gave Edward four pistols was because he was a pirate, and pirates are practically synonymous with carrying an absurd amount of guns :p Gameplay-wise it was no different than carrying two double-barreled pistols with Connor, but aesthetically it looked better with the pirate theme. Arno seems to be more of an Assassin purist, so I don't think he'd be the type to have a bunch of pistols strapped to his chest.

Plus I think the guns of Edward's time would have been lighter than a revolver since they were made mostly of wood with a metal barrel as opposed to an almost fully metal structure, but Doubleclick seems more well-versed on the topic so maybe he could correct me if I'm wrong. I've never held an antique firearm (and very few modern ones).

I think I remember one of the sdcc vids from last year saying that most flintlock pistols were around 10 lbs (around 4.5 kg). But I guess Edward's might've been lighter.

My memory is failing me again but I think the game mentioned that one pirate drowned cause he was carrying 6 flintlock pistols.