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View Full Version : Why this won't be like 2012



Sushiglutton
07-27-2014, 12:28 PM
I made a thread a while back about how I was starting to get some 2012 déjà vu (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/903559-Anyone-else-getting-2012-d%C3%A9j%C3%A0-vu). Here are my arguments for why this won't be like 2012 and why I'm quite optimistic for Unity :) :



Open missions are guaranteed: One of the greatest issues I had with AC3 was all the hand-holdy missions where you basically just went from point A to point B to watch cutscenes. Even the assassinations in AC3 were very linear with optional objectives telling you exactly what to do. For AC:U we are 100% guaranteed to have at least eleven large open missions (that would be the co-op missions) and that is plenty!
French Revolution is a backdrop => better missions: In AC:U the Revolution will be a backdrop as opposed to AC3 where Connor was actively participating in a lot of famous events. What this means is that the designers are much more free in creating missions that suits the gameplay in AC, rather than to create ad hoc mechanics for a specific event. Instead of the missions/gameplay designers being told: "do something with Paul Revere" they can think about what would be a cool missions and then add some historical reference. Now this won't magically create better missions, but I feel the risk of another 2012 decreases dramatically.
Paris is inarguably amazing: This one pretty much speaks for itself. The city looks smashing! Paris itself is a fantastic city and the execution (with the scale + interiors) is top notch. Only question mark I suppose is about the variety of interiors. But even so Paris will be cool to explore. Again this is 100% guaranteed I feel.
Parkour will be better: I have no doubt that the parkour will be better in AC:U. The precision will be improved, since you actively control climb. And controlled descent >> leap of faith as a standard method of getting down to street level. How much better remains to be seen ofc. If there is a level of mastery, as they are hinting, it could be an absolute treat.
Stealth button is an unquestionable improvement: The stealth button will clearly improve stealth and add overall precision to the game (aka, you won't climb stuff when you don't wanna).

m4r-k7
07-27-2014, 12:34 PM
I agree with you 100%

Really excited for this one. The fact that they are bringing back that "assassin" feel to the game with more stealth and open ended assassinations, along with the stunning 1:1 Paris and epic parkour really excites me. Arno sounds like a cool character. All I am hoping for is a great story!

Jexx21
07-27-2014, 12:35 PM
you forgot about customization

SHADOWGARVIN
07-27-2014, 12:47 PM
I was never worried about unity.

ACfan443
07-27-2014, 12:52 PM
you forgot about customization

I really hope it's as extensive as they claim, it sounds extremely promising so far.

roostersrule2
07-27-2014, 12:54 PM
The main difference between Unity's Marketing and AC3's is that we're not getting new info and trailers every week.

While your points are valid, you could've said the same for a lot of AC3's features.

I can't remember what was said about AC3's missions prior to release so I can't comment. However the American Revolution was supposed to be just a backdrop too. I think everyone thought the Frontier and Boston and NY would be amazing but they weren't, they were *** (cue comment from Jexx about how he loved NY and Boston). Parkour is hard to argue with but it could sound better on paper and AC3 was meant to add a lot more stealth to the series, and while it added the mechanics it hardly used them.

I don't mean to sound condescending, I'm just saying we should still be wary. This is Ubi after all. However I'd say Unity will do far better then AC3 at "staying to the script".

Sushiglutton
07-27-2014, 01:05 PM
you forgot about customization

Not a feature I'm interested in personally.



The main difference between Unity's Marketing and AC3's is that we're not getting new info and trailers every week.

While your points are valid, you could've said the same for a lot of AC3's features.

I can't remember what was said about AC3's missions prior to release so I can't comment. However the American Revolution was supposed to be just a backdrop too. I think everyone thought the Frontier and Boston and NY would be amazing but they weren't, they were *** (cue comment from Jexx about how he loved NY and Boston). Parkour is hard to argue with but it could sound better on paper and AC3 was meant to add a lot more stealth to the series, and while it added the mechanics it hardly used them.

I don't mean to sound condescending, I'm just saying we should still be wary. This is Ubi after all. However I'd say Unity will do far better then AC3 at "staying to the script".


I think people were concerned with the cities in AC3 before release because Boston/New York at the time weren't that exciting and lacked severly in the landmark-area.

How can the American revolution have been supposed to be a backdrop? I mean Connor was literally in pretty much every single famous event. Can't remember if this was actually said in the marketing for AC3. If it was, it's pretty hilarious lol.

You didn't sound condescending until you said: "I don't mean to sound condescending" ;)

Jexx21
07-27-2014, 01:08 PM
I loved New York and Boston and the Frontier and Constaninople and Rome and Florence and Venice and Damascus and Acre and Jerusalem and Masyaf and Monterigionni and Romagna and Forli and Tuscany and San Gimignano and Cappadocia and New Orleans and the Bayou and the Kingdom and Havana and Kingston and Nassau and the Carribean Islands and Great Inagua but not the Mountains because the Mountains were bullcrap.

m4r-k7
07-27-2014, 01:08 PM
AC 3 and AC Unity have had different marketing material in terms of what they are implying. A lot of AC 3's marketing was to do with the events of the American Revolution and Connors involvement. The only event we have seen is the storming of the bastille and that was the CGI trailer. I think Unity's marketing hasn't over emphasised Arno's involvement in the French Revolution, but the fact that the French Revolution is a good backdrop for the game.

ze_topazio
07-27-2014, 01:22 PM
I made a thread a while back about how I was starting to get some 2012 déjà vu (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/903559-Anyone-else-getting-2012-d%C3%A9j%C3%A0-vu). Here are my arguments for why this won't be like 2012 and why I'm quite optimistic for Unity :) :



Open missions are guaranteed: One of the greatest issues I had with AC3 was all the hand-holdy missions where you basically just went from point A to point B to watch cutscenes. Even the assassinations in AC3 were very linear with optional objectives telling you exactly what to do. For AC:U we are 100% guaranteed to have at least eleven large open missions (that would be the co-op missions) and that is plenty!
French Revolution is a backdrop => better missions: In AC:U the Revolution will be a backdrop as opposed to AC3 where Connor was actively participating in a lot of famous events. What this means is that the designers are much more free in creating missions that suits the gameplay in AC, rather than to create ad hoc mechanics for a specific event. Instead of the missions/gameplay designers being told: "do something with Paul Revere" they can think about what would be a cool missions and then add some historical reference. Now this won't magically create better missions, but I feel the risk of another 2012 decreases dramatically.
Paris is inarguably amazing: This one pretty much speaks for itself. The city looks smashing! Paris itself is a fantastic city and the execution (with the scale + interiors) is top notch. Only question mark I suppose is about the variety of interiors. But even so Paris will be cool to explore. Again this is 100% guaranteed I feel.
Parkour will be better: I have no doubt that the parkour will be better in AC:U. The precision will be improved, since you actively control climb. And controlled descent >> leap of faith as a standard method of getting down to street level. How much better remains to be seen ofc. If there is a level of mastery, as they are hinting, it could be an absolute treat.
Stealth button is an unquestionable improvement: The stealth button will clearly improve stealth and add overall precision to the game (aka, you won't climb stuff when you don't wanna).


We will have to wait and see because AC3 sounded amazing too.

They promised missions would be amazing and full of liberty and democracy in AC3, we saw how that turned out.

They said Connor's mission throughout the game was to hunt Templars and "let the patriots fight their how battles", we saw how that turned out

Paris does looks great indeed, let's see how the interiors thing turn out.

They also promised the new system in AC3 was the best thing since sliced bread and in the end it was super automatic and full of problems.

Stealth button seems interesting but we will have to wait to see how well implemented that is because things always look amazing on demo videos.

roostersrule2
07-27-2014, 01:24 PM
I think people were concerned with the cities in AC3 before release because Boston/New York at the time weren't that exciting and lacked severly in the landmark-area.

How can the American revolution have been supposed to be a backdrop? I mean Connor was literally in pretty much every single famous event. Can't remember if this was actually said in the marketing for AC3. If it was, it's pretty hilarious lol.

You didn't sound condescending until you said: "I don't mean to sound condescending" ;)Perhaps but people still had high hopes for them, with all the ambience and random events that were included.

I remember them saying it, I think it was in the Making of AC3 videos. It was pretty daft.

Ha, I thought it may have sounded like that because I was arguing against basically everything haha. I have high hopes for Unity, not as high as what I had for AC3 but that is most certainly a good thing.


I loved New York and Boston and the Frontier and Constaninople and Rome and Florence and Venice and Damascus and Acre and Jerusalem and Masyaf and Monterigionni and Romagna and Forli and Tuscany and San Gimignano and Cappadocia and New Orleans and the Bayou and the Kingdom and Havana and Kingston and Nassau and the Carribean Islands and Great Inagua but not the Mountains because the Mountains were bullcrap.Cool!

poptartz20
07-27-2014, 01:30 PM
make up your mind Sushi! First iti's 2012 then next it's 2014! lol.

I honestly think that Ubi has learned from their mistakes. Every game has been a stepping stone until this point ya know. I feel that it can only get better! I'm not too worried about ACU! Just don't feed into the hype train as much and you'll be fine!

dxsxhxcx
07-27-2014, 01:55 PM
they didn't show me anything that proves otherwise until now... so what if the co-op missions (the one we saw and that we don't even know if will be present in the final game) have freedom? I want to know about the main story missions...

Fatal-Feit
07-27-2014, 02:10 PM
Everything appears to be a response to fans' criticisms so I doubt they'll let us down completely. I mean, think about it... 4 player co-op, full customization, open-ended missions, crouch button, navigation revamp, an emphasis on difficult combat, almost everything from the list is apparently in this game.

jayjay275
07-27-2014, 02:15 PM
Everything appears to be a response to fans' criticisms so I doubt they'll let us down completely. I mean, think about it... 4 player co-op, full customization, open-ended missions, crouch button, navigation revamp, an emphasis on difficult combat, almost everything from the list is apparently in this game.

I couldn't agree more with this post. Think about it, haven't many of the features above been what the fans are asking for?

poptartz20
07-27-2014, 02:22 PM
I couldn't agree more with this post. Think about it, haven't many of the features above been what the fans are asking for?

Yet people still find things to complain about. They always do. But I wonder from time to time is it a sense of entitlement. Tons of Gamers seem to have this complex.

but on the other hand, I feel like every game they have improved something that wasn't there last time, or fine tuned it a bit more. Like I said each game is a stepping stone. yeah sure there are set backs like with anything else. But why Harp on something and wish for the best instead of bringing up a constant past that no one can change?

jayjay275
07-27-2014, 03:11 PM
Yet people still find things to complain about. They always do. But I wonder from time to time is it a sense of entitlement. Tons of Gamers seem to have this complex.

but on the other hand, I feel like every game they have improved something that wasn't there last time, or fine tuned it a bit more. Like I said each game is a stepping stone. yeah sure there are set backs like with anything else. But why Harp on something and wish for the best instead of bringing up a constant past that no one can change?

Exactly. A prime example of improvement/tuning is naval combat from AC3 to AC4, and look how well received it was.

Sushiglutton
07-27-2014, 03:28 PM
They promised missions would be amazing and full of liberty and democracy in AC3, we saw how that turned out.

My argument here is because these missions are made for co-op they have to be open. It wouldn't make any sense to have fiur players slowly walking around triggering cutscenes. They must give the players some space.



make up your mind Sushi! First iti's 2012 then next it's 2014! lol.

I honestly think that Ubi has learned from their mistakes. Every game has been a stepping stone until this point ya know. I feel that it can only get better! I'm not too worried about ACU! Just don't feed into the hype train as much and you'll be fine!

What can I say, I'm a complex man ;)!

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-27-2014, 04:20 PM
I'm also hopefully for Unity as long as they learned from their mistakes.

You've made some good points Sushi, but judging too earlier may lead to disappointments ... again *cough*AC3*cough*

Until the game is in our hands, or consoles :p, then we can make some witty observations and see what they promised or lied about.

GunnerGalactico
07-27-2014, 04:33 PM
Until the game is in our hands, or consoles :p, then we can make some witty observations and see what they promised or lied about.

Completely agree. I'm not going to judge the entire game based on one short gameplay demo. I'm sure that Ubi have come along way since AC3. So far, I am impressed with what I have seen in Unity.

MickyDaLips
07-27-2014, 05:55 PM
. For AC:U we are 100% guaranteed to have at least eleven large open missions (that would be the co-op missions) and that is plenty!

I pretty much agree with everything in the OP, but this bit...

Is 11 missions all we're getting co-op? I know we're getting free roam for co-op but there's only so much fun in endlessly attacking a few guards... I can just see all those 11 missions being blown through in one or two gaming sessions... and then what?

m4r-k7
07-27-2014, 06:00 PM
I pretty much agree with everything in the OP, but this bit...

Is 11 missions all we're getting co-op? I know we're getting free roam for co-op but there's only so much fun in endlessly attacking a few guards... I can just see all those 11 missions being blown through in one or two gaming sessions... and then what?

If I am correct we will be able to reply those missions and I think they said they can randomly place guards in the area so it won't get repetitive. For example your second playthrough of a mission will be different to your first as they will change things up a bit. I'm not 100% sure though.

guardian_titan
07-27-2014, 07:32 PM
Personally, I'm not a fan of co-op. I HATE multiplayer. I don't care who it's with. Other people always end up ruining my enjoyment somehow. I don't even do multiplayer with my own brother anymore. So having the open missions be co-op ones makes me feel like I'm missing something because I won't be doing it with other people. While I know the missions will be designed to be done solo, there will always be the feeling that I'm missing something doing them that way.

Only reason Connor seemed like Forrest Gump appearing in major events was because of the distance between them. While it wasn't impossible for him to be at Bunker Hill, Monmouth, the signing of the Declaration of Independence, etc, it's unlikely especially since he worked outside of the military. If he had been within the military working more frequently with the various generals rather than going solo more often than not of if the entire game was set in Boston or New York, then Connor wouldn't have felt that way. The fact that ACU is only in Paris means Arvo could technically be anywhere in the city during a given time and thus be at all major events that occurred there. If the game were between London and Paris (and Vienna), Arvo would be Forrest Gump Jr. Chances are Arvo's still going to see pretty much every major event in Paris.

Paris is a beautiful city, but it's just another city with different architecture and more clumped together. How is it really different from Rome or Constantinople? Notre Dame is great and all, but so was the Hagia Sophia and the Vatican. The only thing I find intriguing is going between the outside and inside worlds seamlessly, but that was partially in previous games, too. You could run through a building in AC3 or AC4 without loading (although you can't stop mid-travel). You could also enter the odd building going back to AC2 to get collectibles. AC3 had seamless shops and taverns. While you couldn't enter every building, you could enter the ones that mattered.

Improved parkour might be nice, but I can't help but wonder how many times I'll miscalculate a descent or my hand will get bumped by my dog asking to get pet causing my camera to point in the wrong direction resulting in Arvo jumping to his death. I just hope leaps of faith are still options in most situations and not just the rare spot.

I find the stealth laughable. Watch the demos and you see Arvo crouching behind a crate before he starts to head up the stairs. He then moves and his sword pops up over the top clearly visible to those on the other side. Come on. No guard seeing that didn't wonder why there's a moving blade behind a box? That's just a sword. A spear or axe would be even harder to believe. I understand it's a technical thing, but that just really blows the immersion. Guards aren't that stupid. Arvo's hand should make some kind of effort to lower his weapon when he's crouching so it doesn't go above his head. At worst, he should unsheathe the weapon and hold it in his hand as he moves about in stealth, then sheathe it when he comes out of it. Issue there is how to combat the clinking noise the weapon would make if the hand holding the weapon hit the floor at any point.

Nice to see others can find enjoyment in the series, but I'm starting to become more and more disenfranchised with it. Disappointing since I only got into the series in December 2012 so not even 2 years ago. Still hoping for an announcement that changes my mind and makes me excited, but so far I haven't seen one. I thought I'd be torn between playing ACU and Dragon Age Inquisition in November, but seems I won't be at this rate.

Jexx21
07-27-2014, 08:04 PM
Arno*

not Arvo

You should have made your points into separate paragraphs to distinguish them from each other. Most of your points also seem like personal issues that the devs can't really answer for you. Also that point about "how is Paris any different from Rome or Constantinople?" is laughable. It's like asking "what's the difference between an apple and an orange? They're both fruits that provide nutrients and do the same thing." They taste different, they look different, and they feel different. It's a beautiful landscape to roam around in, and AC has never been devoid of those.

GoldenBoy9999
07-27-2014, 08:36 PM
@guardian I agree with the things Jexx said. If you liked the other AC games I think you'll find that this one has a lot of improvements and will probably be even more fun. Paris is a big difference from the previous games. I mean, the games have to be in some city so which one are they gonna be in?

rickprog
07-27-2014, 10:39 PM
Personally, I'm not a fan of co-op. I HATE multiplayer. I don't care who it's with. Other people always end up ruining my enjoyment somehow. I don't even do multiplayer with my own brother anymore. So having the open missions be co-op ones makes me feel like I'm missing something because I won't be doing it with other people. While I know the missions will be designed to be done solo, there will always be the feeling that I'm missing something doing them that way.

You're saying you don't like co-op, but you'll be missing out on something doing them solo. What do you want, then? They're giving you the two options you could possibly have.


Paris is a beautiful city, but it's just another city with different architecture and more clumped together. How is it really different from Rome or Constantinople? Notre Dame is great and all, but so was the Hagia Sophia and the Vatican. The only thing I find intriguing is going between the outside and inside worlds seamlessly, but that was partially in previous games, too. You could run through a building in AC3 or AC4 without loading (although you can't stop mid-travel). You could also enter the odd building going back to AC2 to get collectibles. AC3 had seamless shops and taverns. While you couldn't enter every building, you could enter the ones that mattered.

It's different because it's bigger, with different architecture (like you said), set on a different time period with more crowd density and better developed AI. There's a whole different culture in one of the most determining periods in human history. Once again, like you said, it was partially implemented on previous games. Most of the buildings where only cutscenes of Haytham/Connor/Edward running through them, with no real content at all. They're going to have a function this time around. They're going to matter. Also, not all the shops and taverns were seamless


Improved parkour might be nice, but I can't help but wonder how many times I'll miscalculate a descent or my hand will get bumped by my dog asking to get pet causing my camera to point in the wrong direction resulting in Arvo jumping to his death. I just hope leaps of faith are still options in most situations and not just the rare spot.

I'd expect the system to work in a rather precise way. That is, after all, the reason they're implementing it: precision in hands of the player. I'd even dare to bet the frequency of deaths due to accidentally jumping off rooftops/high surfaces will decrease significantly compared to other AC games. Hell, I'd say the only reason I bought potions on the Ezio trilogy was to restore my health after falling off rooftops.


I find the stealth laughable. Watch the demos and you see Arvo crouching behind a crate before he starts to head up the stairs. He then moves and his sword pops up over the top clearly visible to those on the other side. Come on. No guard seeing that didn't wonder why there's a moving blade behind a box? That's just a sword. A spear or axe would be even harder to believe. I understand it's a technical thing, but that just really blows the immersion. Guards aren't that stupid. Arvo's hand should make some kind of effort to lower his weapon when he's crouching so it doesn't go above his head. At worst, he should unsheathe the weapon and hold it in his hand as he moves about in stealth, then sheathe it when he comes out of it. Issue there is how to combat the clinking noise the weapon would make if the hand holding the weapon hit the floor at any point.


I did notice that, and I do agree they should have created an animation to prevent that AI flaw, but it's a small one. It's the debut of a mechanism that has been requested for years. I'm sure it will be fixed for the coming games in those certain details.


Nice to see others can find enjoyment in the series, but I'm starting to become more and more disenfranchised with it. Disappointing since I only got into the series in December 2012 so not even 2 years ago. Still hoping for an announcement that changes my mind and makes me excited, but so far I haven't seen one. I thought I'd be torn between playing ACU and Dragon Age Inquisition in November, but seems I won't be at this rate.

There were rumors of DAI being delayed, so you might want to check about that. I think the release date is November 17 now. In any case, I'd suggest not to lose track of the ACU updates, since it's the few ones we've got pretty much repeat what has been said before.

Sesheenku
07-28-2014, 03:19 PM
I'm optimistic but arguments 1,2 and 4 aren't very strong. Not everyone will play Co-Op, even if they do it's no excuse not to make everything open ended, you describe yourself why point 2 isn't that great, and point 4... Parkour looks great but is it? As long as we have MORE control it's fine but maybe not.

I'm optimistic and wary at the same time ;P, if they bring it home though they'll hear nothing bad from me until they make another disappointing AC IF they ever do.

"I find the stealth laughable. Watch the demos and you see Arvo crouching behind a crate before he starts to head up the stairs. He then moves and his sword pops up over the top clearly visible to those on the other side. Come on. No guard seeing that didn't wonder why there's a moving blade behind a box? That's just a sword. A spear or axe would be even harder to believe. I understand it's a technical thing, but that just really blows the immersion. Guards aren't that stupid. Arvo's hand should make some kind of effort to lower his weapon when he's crouching so it doesn't go above his head. At worst, he should unsheathe the weapon and hold it in his hand as he moves about in stealth, then sheathe it when he comes out of it. Issue there is how to combat the clinking noise the weapon would make if the hand holding the weapon hit the floor at any point."

As for this ,if I were you I wouldn't play games for another 20 years then. The processing power to make AI that reacts to every little polygon of a character model would make the best PC run the game at a crawl, a console would most likely explode.

Hell, games STILL don't have collision physics, weapon models and armor models still clip through each other and all sorts of stuff, because nothing can handle all the physics calculations at that graphical fidelity yet.

If I were a developer I'd be looking for ways to improve physics now instead of pushing raw graphical power. After Unity which looks fantastic that's what we should be aiming for.

Dome500
07-29-2014, 07:55 PM
Yeah basically we have a lot more Stealth support now, new mechanics (crouch button, parkour down, etc.), customization, Assassins VS Templars in the foreground while the Revolution will be the colorful background that gives the game life, and a lot of other improvements on top of that.


Yet people still find things to complain about. They always do

Yet this isn't what matters. What ultimately matters is how MUCH people find to complain about.
If people start complaining about minor problems it only shows that the game itself has no or not many major problems.


Is 11 missions all we're getting co-op? I know we're getting free roam for co-op but there's only so much fun in endlessly attacking a few guards... I can just see all those 11 missions being blown through in one or two gaming sessions... and then what?

Aren't this only the Coop-only Missions? (A la Splinter Cell Blacklist?) If I understood it correctly then you can play EVERY mission alone, but there are missions that are tough to be Coop (those 11 maybe?) (Coop campaign with story and all) and then there are (side) missions that CAN be played coop or solo. If I understood that right....


If I am correct we will be able to reply those missions and I think they said they can randomly place guards in the area so it won't get repetitive. For example your second playthrough of a mission will be different to your first as they will change things up a bit. I'm not 100% sure though.

That would be amazing.

Anyone of you played Splinter Cell Convictions Deniable Ops Mode? They had randomly set enemy locations and patrol routes so every time you played there was something different. That's a big plus for replayability.