PDA

View Full Version : Brewster Buffalo vs. A6M2 Zero Testimonial



UberDemon
07-17-2004, 11:26 AM
Greetings,

Just bought the latest "Flight Journal - Special Issue: P-40 Warhawk". The entire magazine is dedicated to the famed P-40. One of the articles talks about RNZAF 11-kill-ace Flt Offiver Geoffrey Fisken. Although the article is meant towards the P-40, it has some interesting info about the Brewster Buffalo vs. Zero.

"To be successful against the Japanese, especially the Zero, you had to have an altitude advantage. I thought the Buffalo was a delight to fly - a beautiful airplane but a bit under-powered. The Zeros were too fast, and they could turn inside of us. If you got into a dogfight with them, you were committing suicide.

Being young I still had aspirations of growing old back in New Zealand, but being somewhat foolhardy, when we saw a flight of Japanese fighters coming in, we cimbed to attack - as high as we could get above them. As they drew closer, we pushed the old Buffalos over - throttles to the stops - and went screaming downs, firing through them. We were always outnumbered, but to me, this was an advantage, as it gave me more targets to pick from!"

He achieved 6 kills in the Buffalo, with the last one being a Zero in that type of attack with a 3 second burst; but he got hit up pretty bad in that last Buffalo flight. He then flew the P-40.

Could be some good info for some Pacific Missions using QMB or my UQMG software. I recommend giving yourself plenty of altitude (advantage in QMB, same in UQMG, but you can customize. Select 3 Brewsters vs 8 A6M2s and see if the tactic works. In UQMG you can use 2 flights with clones for something like 6 Brewsters (3 in original plus one clone flight) against 20 Zeroes easily (4 in original plus 4 clone flights). In UQMG you can use your mission in Coop as well for a quick coop run. Just some ideas.

get UQMG at www.uberdemon.com (http://www.uberdemon.com)

Demon/UberDemon

UberDemon
07-17-2004, 11:26 AM
Greetings,

Just bought the latest "Flight Journal - Special Issue: P-40 Warhawk". The entire magazine is dedicated to the famed P-40. One of the articles talks about RNZAF 11-kill-ace Flt Offiver Geoffrey Fisken. Although the article is meant towards the P-40, it has some interesting info about the Brewster Buffalo vs. Zero.

"To be successful against the Japanese, especially the Zero, you had to have an altitude advantage. I thought the Buffalo was a delight to fly - a beautiful airplane but a bit under-powered. The Zeros were too fast, and they could turn inside of us. If you got into a dogfight with them, you were committing suicide.

Being young I still had aspirations of growing old back in New Zealand, but being somewhat foolhardy, when we saw a flight of Japanese fighters coming in, we cimbed to attack - as high as we could get above them. As they drew closer, we pushed the old Buffalos over - throttles to the stops - and went screaming downs, firing through them. We were always outnumbered, but to me, this was an advantage, as it gave me more targets to pick from!"

He achieved 6 kills in the Buffalo, with the last one being a Zero in that type of attack with a 3 second burst; but he got hit up pretty bad in that last Buffalo flight. He then flew the P-40.

Could be some good info for some Pacific Missions using QMB or my UQMG software. I recommend giving yourself plenty of altitude (advantage in QMB, same in UQMG, but you can customize. Select 3 Brewsters vs 8 A6M2s and see if the tactic works. In UQMG you can use 2 flights with clones for something like 6 Brewsters (3 in original plus one clone flight) against 20 Zeroes easily (4 in original plus 4 clone flights). In UQMG you can use your mission in Coop as well for a quick coop run. Just some ideas.

get UQMG at www.uberdemon.com (http://www.uberdemon.com)

Demon/UberDemon

horseback
07-17-2004, 12:26 PM
A short reminder-early Pacific war fighter pilots were rarely clear on the difference between the IJN's Zero and the IJA's Oscar. Indeed, for the CBI, the colloquial expression for any Japanese fighter seems to have been 'Zero.' Part of this confusion was due to Chennault's early sketches of the Zero with a rounded bottom to its tail (he'd only observed them from the ground, and the lone crashed example was pretty mangled).

In any case, the Oscar was lighter armed and somewhat slower BUT even more maneuverable than the Zero. It's still operational (until mid '43)predecessor, the Ki-27 Nate, was still more so. Both types were smaller targets than the Zero, and very hard to hit if they had half a second's warning. Fisken's accomplishments are in no way diminished by this difference.

cheers

horseback

PS-I got that issue, and recommend it also.

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

UberDemon
07-17-2004, 12:52 PM
Indeed.

In the article he mentioned that he had 5 kills of various types before that last one. Apparently the 6th was a Zero. I imagine he did encouter Zeros before from his statement. The Oscar and Zeke were both built "lightly" for superior manouverability at the expense of pilot protection, so who knows... perhaps he encountered some Oscars too.

D/UD

Ugly_Kid
07-17-2004, 01:01 PM
The Brewster in the game features B239, which is considerably lighter and much more manouverable than the "Buffalo" that encountered Zeros. The ones here were most probably 339E model which had already normal gross weight of 6112.2 lbs (B239 5325 lbs). I would not put it past B239 to outturn zero falt out. Like Boyington said, the original Brewster, before the engineers spoiled it was able to turn inside a telephone booth.

http://people.freenet.de/hausberg/oksennus_1.jpg

UberDemon
07-17-2004, 01:19 PM
I think you are right.

The IL-2 documentation states that the B-239s that Finland received were close to the USN F2A-1s, which were said to be delightful to fly. It states that the F2A-2s and 3s that the USN received got a bat reputation.

From what I've read, I think that the Buffalo Mk.Is were F2A-2s, still Fisken referred to it with fondness.

jensenpark
07-17-2004, 03:24 PM
bump just for uberdemon software...too cool!

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

LeadSpitter_
07-17-2004, 09:25 PM
hey demon, i just installed you program and the second update will not install.

It locks my commputer up saying cannot find file etc for thousands of files.

I downloaded the zips

uqmg4fb3.7.4.zip unzipped to the dir c:\temp ran the exe and installed fine

then downloaded upgrade0008_uqmg4fbaep.zip

unzipped to c:\temp1

then ran the exe and it installs half then says cannot find file for thousands of files

I removed it from my IE cache and tried to dl again and same deal i was wondering if you can test the file from your site to see if its corrupt.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

UberDemon
07-18-2004, 04:21 AM
Lead,

Did you generate a mission before you installed the upgrade? If you don't you have to re-install...

I downloaded the file from my site to my personal workstation then unzipped it and installed it over my normal UQMG installation, which is the same as everyone else's. I do that as one of the testing measures before I announce it to the public.

The file should have the following properties in Windows XP:
Size: 6.45MB (6771570 bytes)
Size on Disk: 6.46MB (6774784 bytes)

The Zip file has 3191 compressed files for a total of 55337KB.

To install it you have to put the zip file in the same directory as UQMG is installed, which is generally c:\program files\uberquickfb although it could be somewhere else.

When you place the file there, right click on the zip file and select EXTRACT HERE and overwrite.

Hope it helps.

Demon/UberDemon

GerritJ9
07-18-2004, 01:36 PM
It should also be pointed out that the RAF Buffs were fitted with an 1100 hp engine, rather than the 950 hp of the Finnish B239s. Many-though unfortunately not all- of the KNIL Brewsters had a 1200 hp engine, and they were also some 250 kgs lighter than the British aircraft. This would have given them a considerably better performance than that of the RAF aircraft.
The main problem was not a hopelessly inferior aircraft, but pilots with little or no combat training- let alone actual combat experience- facing overwhelmingly superior numbers of extremely well-trained Japanese pilots, many of whom had gained combat experience in China and against the Soviets at Khalkin-Gol. Under such circumstances the Japanese had the edge. 3 to 1 odds were common, and sometimes the odds facing Allied pilots were greater than that. the Finns took on all comers with their Brewsters- Hurricanes, P-39s, P-40s, Lavochkins, Yaks, Migs and very successfully, proving that the pilot is what matters most.
I have flown the B239 against the A6M2 in QMB with mixed results. 1 to 1, with me in the B239 and A6M2 pilot as average, the A6M2 causes damage but fails to actually shoot me down- I fail to even get a shot in. Me in the Zero and the B239 pilot as average, I usually get the Buff in the end. However, changing the B239 pilot to expert results in me (in Zero) being shot down every time.
4 to 4, and with A6M2 pilots as average usually ends in a draw with both sides suffering 1 or 2 losses. I haven't tried 3 to 9 yet, but I suspect that the Buffs won't survive that.

UberDemon
07-18-2004, 01:58 PM
Good reading Gerrit.

I tried the approach of diving and got a kill, but my other 5 mates stuck around to get shot by the Zeros.

My 2 3-plane flights had skills of Veteran, Veteran, Average

The Japanese 5 4-plane flights had skills of Vet, Ave, Ave, Rookie.

I guess best thing is to do initial pass, hope for best, then tell everyone to run home.

Demon/UberDemon

LeadSpitter_
07-18-2004, 04:17 PM
I didnt, i will generate a mission and try again file sizes match up.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

UberDemon
07-19-2004, 02:06 PM
That should do it.

I am sorry about that step. Sometimes it gets missed when people install it the first time.

Good luck. I hope you get it working. Now that I am done with the great part of programming, I am actually stepping back and enjoying UQMG (as a user) and IL-2 a bit more. My piloting skills have gone down... but it is a small price to pay.

Demon/UberDemon