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Comic_Book_Joker
07-13-2014, 03:53 AM
So, in Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag, we discover a man known as the Sage, who has reincarnated over the millenia. Or, is this really the first time we're hearing of him?

I bring your attention to Assassin's Creed II. Codex page 11. It describes how Altair questions the possible existence over the millenia (right time frame) of men who had similar stories about them (to name a few, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, and Jesus). The comparisons he drew were that all their stories speak of divine birthright (The Sage is a sort of reincarnation of one of the First Civ people, so it fits), Persecution (we in fact see two versions of the Sage in AC 4, both of whom initially have menial roles in their society; once again, it fits), disciples (Bartholomew Roberts had his pirate crew, and John had the Instruments of the First Will; perfect fit), miraculous acts (the Observatory sure seemed to Edward like some spiritual act before Roberts said it was ancient tech, and John damn near summoned a being that ancient humans regarded as a goddess; good fit), and resurrection (this is quite possibly the most important one, for since the Sages all look exactly the same, it could easily be confused with resurrection; once you factor in that Sages are born seemingly randomly, potentially allowing for multiple being in existence at once, and you have a perfect fit).

With this logic in mind, I have come to the conclusion that in the Assassin's Creed timeline, the men I named above, along with others, are in fact Sages.

Any thoughts?

JustPlainQuirky
07-13-2014, 03:54 AM
Isnt Jesus just a survivor of TOWCB race in the AC universe?

or am I thinking of someone else?

Calvarok
07-13-2014, 03:58 AM
jesus had a PoE (the shroud), was likely a normal human.

and I agree that this whole concept of Sages was probably something the AC writers have been thinking about for a long time and waiting to introduce.

Jexx21
07-13-2014, 03:59 AM
Horus is confirmed to be a TWCB child of Isis and Osiris

It's implied that Jesus was just a man who used the Apple

roostersrule2
07-13-2014, 04:06 AM
Jesus just had an apple.

eaglefan129
07-13-2014, 04:07 AM
whats twcb?

JustPlainQuirky
07-13-2014, 04:09 AM
The ones who came before.

The precursor race. What Juno and Minerva are.

Calvarok
07-13-2014, 04:13 AM
Jesus may have had an apple at one point, but he was specifically killed for his Shroud of Eden, as we learned in AC2. the only person who said he used an apple was Al Mualim, and he might have mistaken one piece of first civ tech for another. since he wasn't actually there.

Comic_Book_Joker
07-13-2014, 04:14 AM
Did not know that about Horus. Thanks for that.

Jesus, on the other hand... Has it been confirmed that Sages cannot use Pieces of Eden? Because if it hasn't, why can't he possibly have been a Sage who also had the Shroud?

Jexx21
07-13-2014, 04:23 AM
Sages actually are pretty much just normal humans who've had the basic knowledge and personality and genetics of Aita imprinted in their brains.

Also, Jesus was a non-violent man who advocated peace, which really doesn't line up with most Sages as far as I can tell.

roostersrule2
07-13-2014, 04:41 AM
I doubt Jesus was a sage, as Jexx said he was a peaceful person, he was probably more like Desmond where he had the right amount of TWCB in him to be able to wield the apple.

I'd love a game in Biblical times but I think there'd be too much controversy for Ubi to even consider it.

eaglefan129
07-13-2014, 04:43 AM
so how much of ac lore do i not know? ive only played the games...because my basic understanding that important figuries in history help pieices of eden that helped them do stuff. so let me get this straight according to ac lore without the pieices of eden jesus would not have been able to "control" people? similar to what desmond did with the apple in 3?

JustPlainQuirky
07-13-2014, 04:50 AM
there's a LOT of AC Lore.

Tons I dont know about hidden away in initiates too...

roostersrule2
07-13-2014, 04:52 AM
so how much of ac lore do i not know? ive only played the games...because my basic understanding that important figuries in history help pieices of eden that helped them do stuff. so let me get this straight according to ac lore without the pieices of eden jesus would not have been able to "control" people? similar to what desmond did with the apple in 3?Basically there was a race that created the humans, TWCB.

They created the Pieces of Eden to control humans and whatnot, different POE's have different effects. When the TWCB were dying they hid away or destroyed most of the POE's, however some were still left. These are the ones used by the historical figures, Jesus had an Apple of Eden in which he turned water into wine, gave the blind man sight, things like this and the Shroud, which brought him back to life.

wvstolzing
07-13-2014, 08:22 AM
so how much of ac lore do i not know? ive only played the games...because my basic understanding that important figuries in history help pieices of eden that helped them do stuff. so let me get this straight according to ac lore without the pieices of eden jesus would not have been able to "control" people? similar to what desmond did with the apple in 3?

It's implied that Jesus performed some miracles with the shroud (I guess the little girl, Lazarus), not necessarily 'control' people. It's also implied somewhat that the 'shroud' is the famous 'shroud of Turin'; interestingly, it was previously in the possession of Brutus----his friends at Philippi tried to 'resurrect' him with it, but he turned into a zombie briefly, etc. etc.

The wiki (assassinscreed.wikia.com) is a good source for the lore. It contains synopses of the material outside the games (comics, etc.).
I'm not sure whether to recommend the comics themselves. The Nikolai Orelov/Daniel Cross issues (the Fall, the Chain) are OK; but the series involving Desmond often downright contradict the games (the first issue notoriously so). I don't think they're otherwise interesting either. Just my opinion, though.

Aphex_Tim
07-13-2014, 08:28 AM
Does that mean Jesus had a horseshoe mustache? Awesome!

JustPlainQuirky
07-13-2014, 08:30 AM
I always found it awkward when AC basically made jesus some bloke with a magic relic.

But meh. it's something you just gotta deal with.

It's the ACverse afterall. Not reality.

And I'm not super religious or anything before anyone starts pointing fingers.

wvstolzing
07-13-2014, 08:34 AM
Does that mean Jesus had a horseshoe mustache? Awesome!

The face on the shroud of Turin reminds me of Frank Zappa.

Assassin_M
07-13-2014, 08:38 AM
I always found it awkward when AC basically made jesus some bloke with a magic relic.

But meh. it's something you just gotta deal with.

It's the ACverse afterall. Not reality.

And I'm not super religious or anything before anyone starts pointing fingers.
wellllll, Jesus is a normal human in Islam so yeah, AC is not really the first to portray him as such

wvstolzing
07-13-2014, 10:27 AM
so yeah, AC is not really the first to portray him as such

When you go into the details, there exist a plethora of christological positions according to which he'd be 'a normal human', (in addition to celestial beings of various sorts, including god himself, aspects of god, angels, and on and on) from the earliest days of Christianity.

My favorite version of 'Jesus as a normal man', though, is in the film 'Jesus of Montréal'. It's highly recommended.

ze_topazio
07-13-2014, 01:17 PM
Abraham, Jesus, Muhammad, L. Ron Hubbard, Maradona, Michael Jackson, Gabe Newell, they could all be sages.

wvstolzing
07-13-2014, 01:30 PM
Maradona, Michael Jackson, Gabe Newell, they could all be sages.

and Sages are also shapeshifters, apparently. Or maybe Juno was polygamous.
Nevertheless, my money is on Maradona.

ze_topazio
07-13-2014, 01:44 PM
Shapeshifting is an ability to change shape at will, is not shapeshifting if do to a genetic defect they didn't born looking exactly like Aita.

Hans684
07-13-2014, 04:06 PM
Abraham, Jesus, Muhammad, L. Ron Hubbard, Maradona, Michael Jackson, Gabe Newell, they could all be sages.

No.

ze_topazio
07-13-2014, 04:16 PM
No.

Yes, Danny Trejo too.

Jexx21
07-13-2014, 04:24 PM
wellllll, Jesus is a normal human in Islam so yeah, AC is not really the first to portray him as such
technically the Bible itself describes Jesus as someone that is a normal human, but also as someone who is divine.

so...

I-Like-Pie45
07-13-2014, 04:28 PM
god is dbag

Hans684
07-13-2014, 09:14 PM
Yes, Danny Trejo too.

Are you touched in the head?

SixKeys
07-13-2014, 09:26 PM
technically the Bible itself describes Jesus as someone that is a normal human, but also as someone who is divine.

so...

The very antithesis of a normal human is someone who is also divine at the same time.

I-Like-Pie45
07-13-2014, 09:31 PM
god is a hypo

ze_topazio
07-13-2014, 11:44 PM
Are you touched in the head?

Yes, by Jesus himself with a fish.

http://i.imgur.com/ls7adO5.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/8f902f6d0d2ce654232a5ff51ad17d98/tumblr_mi4j5hJL3r1rhd1xfo1_500.gif
http://i.imgur.com/PeYygnK.gif

Hans684
07-14-2014, 08:57 AM
Yes, by Jesus himself with a fish.

http://i.imgur.com/ls7adO5.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/8f902f6d0d2ce654232a5ff51ad17d98/tumblr_mi4j5hJL3r1rhd1xfo1_500.gif
http://i.imgur.com/PeYygnK.gif

Lol, made my day.