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shobhit7777777
06-24-2014, 09:00 AM
I'm reposting this from a thread I'd made in the Takedown: Red Sabre forums pertaining to tactical coordination between new players and immersive movement as a team.

I'm doing this in the hopes that the R6S dev team are made aware of the issue of how basic, organic yet realistic coordination is missing in near every shooter and are able to address it - in case they already haven't.

I'd like an immersive, tactical ,realistic play experience which emulates real world CT unit's MO. The ability to move and communicate organically and realistically would be a god sent for me personally

Here it goes:


Player-to-Player Tactical Coordination

In many "tactical" shooters there is a major absence of actual tactical coordination in terms of movement, covering each other and basic "physical" communication born out of cohesion.

if you're playing a game where you are emulating real life CT or SOF, it becomes immersion shattering when the basics of movement during combat are not being incorporated.

Too many times I've been unable to "Move, Shoot, Communicate" ineffectively as part of a larger team due to the simple fact that the game cannot simulate the intensive training the CT units (which I assume are the basis of Takedown) undergo that lead to such cohesion

When I am with another player, lacking a mic or an ingame chat (or just too "into" the game to even bother with that) I find it cumbersome and annoying to carry out simple actions like:


Entering and Clearing rooms
Checking each other's sixes and angles
Moving together
Covering each other

Very basic actions which are damn near impossible to coordinate.

Now I can understand the argument that "I should play with a team of friends" but the fact is:



Not many of my friends are into such shooters, let alone into following a realistic way of playing
We all are adults with busy schedules - we simply cannot "train" to reach that level
Existing methods of communication and coordination are simply not enough
A lot of us are forced to play with "Randoms"
Not everyone is familiar with advanced CQB techniques...not everyone HAS to learn them


To that end, I would like to discuss a system of mechanics that facilitates teamwork and coordinated actions between a group of Unknowns

The idea is to join a quick-match and immediately delve into a game which is all about careful, coordinated and deliberated movement...without jumping through hoops like VOIP, in-game chat and still maintaining the immersive feeling of playing like a professional.

Following are my proposals:

(NOTE: I understand that the scope of the project is very focused and feature-creeping is best avoided...and that my ideas may not be feasible let alone good...I understand that...so I'm neither expecting, nor demanding these ideas to be used....I just want to share them)



TETHERING: Player (Part of a Formation) Independent of Movement, Focuses on Aiming and Covering his/her Sector.

http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2014/06/rainbow6siege_ss5_147516.jpg

Tethering allows two to 3 players to be part of a formation. It is an in-game feature which works on the following principle:



Player 1 links up with Player 2 and decides to "tether" him/herself to P2. This assigns P2 as the "Point Man" of the formation (The lead) and P1 as the following entity.
Player 1 is then removed from controlling the movement of his/her character in terms of walking, crouching and general locomotion. He/She can ONLY control the weapon and the upper torso. In Essence, P1 can ONLY AIM and Turn around
The Point Man (P2) is the formation leader and is in charge of movement, speed and stance. He is the "Bus Driver"...P1 is the dude sticking his M16 out the window of that bus.
Tethered position of P1 would depend on the number of people in that formation. If 3 characters are in the formation then P1 is shifted to either flank
Tethered formations are context sensitive - in hallway? it forms a tight column, in a slightly open area? a spread out diamond covering all the flanks

This system has the following benefits:



Easily coordinates and links up two or more players
Allows people to focus on observing sectors, with the point man in charge of movement - a bit more realistic IMO
Drives up the coordination as people know exactly where to cover and where the other teammates are in relation to their position
Increases SA
Makes playing with randoms that much more smoother

A player can break out of a formation by simply moving in either direction - NO STICKY FORMATIONS

TETHERED C3: Point Man "Leads" the Formation; Orders can Be Issued to Other Players

A C3 system allows the point man to:



Quickly issue Stacking orders in preparation for breaching an entrance or clearing a room
Players in the tether are automatically put into the proper positions by the system based the Stacking Order
Point Man can decide on several options (Via a simple command menu identical to the SP one)
Point Man has options which can be carried out by the team...if no one is equipped with breaching charges, a breaching order will result in an aural "Negative" or a simple headshake from the assigned breacher.
Orders are carried out by the Players themselves. They have to equip the charge, place it, prime it and then detonate it - all of this is completely player based, from timing to execution
All orders are context sensitive and some orders will allow the tethered players to break out of formation and perform the needful

The C3 function is to establish not only a heirarchy but also set a pace. It allows unprecedented levels of communication and coordination WITHOUT sacrificing the player's role in terms of tactics, timing, aiming and executing tasks.



The Players decide if and when they want to carry out the orders or join a tether..or when to fire, how to cover their arcs, how and where to place a charge, timing and throwing a flashbang into a room etc.

My objective is to bring about the ability of a player playing with his AI squadmates as in MP BUT with the added advantage of having more than 1 thinking, human brain in his team.

The above system would allow players to:



Move fluidly and coordinate complex actions - not everyone knows where and how to stack up
It is not a forced option - you can always just opt not to use it or break away from it
It relays orders and information in a very realistic manner within the formation
Experience a deeper sense of trust and reliance in his/her teammates - Each person counts in a formation

As an example:

Alpha, Bravo and Charlie are 3 unknown players who have just joined a quick MP match. B and C tether with A. A is the Point man. B and C are on the two flanks.
A leads the formation through a wide and open area with B & C focusing their sights on the right and left flanks...A is tasked with stealthily navigating towards the nearest door
A decides to stack up at the left side of the door. The Tethering system recognises this and positions B and C accordingly.
The system also tracks the equipment that B and C carry. C is tasked with security and B is tasked with the act of breaching the door
The B player has the option to try the door handle to see if it is locked or not...doing so will result in B reporting to A with the result (depending on the ROE set by A it'll either be a verbal "yes/no" or a simple headshake or thumbs up/down)
The Handle is locked.
B, being the person in charge of the entrance will be able to use an Optic cable and this can be used to paint a picture (again based on ROE and character dialogue) of the room. Doing so is up to the player controlling B entirely.
A, with the information that 2 tangos are inside the room will then prep an appropriate response
A goes with "Bang and Clear" (Since no one is carrying any charges)
B is then tasked with opening the door and A will roll a flash in - ALL of this is to be done by the players. A simple command or order will merely tell B what he is supposed to do...."Open Door" will appear as a little order or icon on the screen indicating that B is in charge of creaking the door open....B can always refuse to do so and take on both responsibilities
A preps the flashbang, B creaks it open as much as he wants and rolls it in.....they all pour in (Tether kicks back in) and cover their sectors.
During the breach the players are fully capable of breaking off formation and immediately regaining character movement if things go awry.

I understand some of you may view this as excessive handholding....but IMO a system should be explored that can take the "physicality" of in-game coordination to new and improved heights

Where-is-R6-HD
06-24-2014, 04:13 PM
Stuff like that might help SP but you should not be playing MP without a clan.

shobhit7777777
06-25-2014, 08:01 AM
Stuff like that might help SP but you should not be playing MP without a clan.

Its redundant in SP. The AI is already "tethered" to you.

Don't have time for a clan and practicing CQB drills with them. If the game can help random, like-minded players move in coordination...I'd love it

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
06-25-2014, 12:34 PM
Thanks for you feedback

Where-is-R6-HD
06-25-2014, 04:53 PM
I am talking about SP co op.

shobhit7777777
06-26-2014, 07:52 AM
I am talking about SP co op.

I'm referring to PvP MP

@Mush

Cheers!

xLOSTxAblomis
06-26-2014, 01:52 PM
I like the idea of the tethering, but i believe Siege will not be hardcore enough for that)

The "minimum" program should be convenient command menu, like in SWAT 4. You would be amazed, but people really used it (those who wanted to play tactically).
On the contrary In PAYDAY 2 there is an in-game chat system but hardly anyone is using it.

Second thing is that gameplay should "force" you to cooperate.

shobhit7777777
06-27-2014, 07:45 AM
I like the idea of the tethering, but i believe Siege will not be hardcore enough for that)

The "minimum" program should be convenient command menu, like in SWAT 4. You would be amazed, but people really used it (those who wanted to play tactically).
On the contrary In PAYDAY 2 there is an in-game chat system but hardly anyone is using it.

Second thing is that gameplay should "force" you to cooperate.

Yeah....I'd like the ability to roleplay with likeminded players for an immersive experience...which is why the tethering is entirely optional...its for those who put a premium on immersion.

I feel R6S would organically encourage teamplay and cooperation....the 'Siege' set up is like that. A deeper, in-built coordination and communication system would only add to the experience.

Dome500
06-30-2014, 07:50 PM
I like the idea though there could be several problems with that.
Also, I agree that the "minimum" should definitely be that we are able to issue "quick-commands" which our teammates will hear like "Checking left room", "Clear", "Advancing", "Contact", "Found the Hostage", "Need Support", "I'm down" or "Move Forward", "Cover me", or "Engage".
It would at least help to have a list of passive, aggressive, defensive and movement-related commands we can issue to each other so we can at least communicate on a basic level if we do not have a headset/mic. Writing texts is not possible in such a tense mp mode IMO so this is not worth a lot except for lobby chat.
Of course mics should be a must have anyway but for people who can not use a mix at specific times those basic commands can at least provide some level of communication. (Like the Team Leader or the other Members talk to you and you can at least go like "Roger", "Negative" or "Wait a second".

shobhit7777777
07-01-2014, 08:30 AM
I like the idea though there could be several problems with that.
Also, I agree that the "minimum" should definitely be that we are able to issue "quick-commands" which our teammates will hear like "Checking left room", "Clear", "Advancing", "Contact", "Found the Hostage", "Need Support", "I'm down" or "Move Forward", "Cover me", or "Engage".
It would at least help to have a list of passive, aggressive, defensive and movement-related commands we can issue to each other so we can at least communicate on a basic level if we do not have a headset/mic. Writing texts is not possible in such a tense mp mode IMO so this is not worth a lot except for lobby chat.
Of course mics should be a must have anyway but for people who can not use a mix at specific times those basic commands can at least provide some level of communication. (Like the Team Leader or the other Members talk to you and you can at least go like "Roger", "Negative" or "Wait a second".

Yeah...precise, effective communication would be priceless. Simple ways to indicate walls to breach or windows to rappell through...context sensitive hand signals....just anything to beef up inter-team comms.

Might also add a layer of depth where you have to maintain silent hand signals in order to keep the tangos in the dark. IDK...anything which facilitates coordination and augments the voice comms. Hehe...would be nice to fake out the defenders by shouting out a wall breach and then coming in through the windows

TheCyrcus.TTV
07-04-2014, 08:20 AM
The problem is that you'd be removing piece of a skill cap from the game. Why remove certain mechanics from the game that CAN be practiced by people who DO have time for it simply for the sake of some casual players that like being hand held? Especially in a competitive game. Now I'm not necessarily saying I don't like your idea, but please don't make your argument be "because I don't have the time to practice". Professional CS and LoL players had/have time for it, yet thousands of casual players are still able to play and have fun with it.

Also, not every clan in the world is hardcore. There are more than enough people that play casually but would still like to nail some tactics down that wont kick you out simply because you aren't on enough. Maybe it will take a little longer, but it's still something. Taking a couple minutes to search for some clans wont kill you.

Ghost-117-16
07-08-2014, 03:31 AM
I hear you man. But I also agree with the poster above. Here are three ideas to encourage tac coordination without compromising in-game:

#1: Include a "must pass" Tactics Tutorial as I've suggested in another post. This tutorial should be challenging and fun enough that players are encouraged to master it, and keep going back to re-practice. This tutorial should be designed by CT/SWAT Professionals with "tips" and models to follow. The tutorial should Teach/Test players on the following minimum aspects.


Room Clearing Basics
Zones of Fire Discipline
Tactical Communication


#2: Each multiplayer map should have an intro (provided in extra content perhaps) with models developed for each map by CT/SWAT Professionals for clearing.

#3: For Multiplayer matches, include an after-action briefing with analysis of mistakes made by your team. This can show freeze frames of moments where you or your team members were flanked by a tango from a direction that should have been covered by a member of your team etc.


However, in-game tactical aids which are enforced would actually lower difficulty and realism, because its just another training wheel. All effort should be made to train the player BEFORE or AFTER the action, not during. Once the game starts, training is over, and it's time to apply what you've learned.

TheCyrcus.TTV
07-11-2014, 03:01 AM
I hear you man. But I also agree with the poster above. Here are three ideas to encourage tac coordination without compromising in-game:

#1: Include a "must pass" Tactics Tutorial as I've suggested in another post. This tutorial should be challenging and fun enough that players are encouraged to master it, and keep going back to re-practice. This tutorial should be designed by CT/SWAT Professionals with "tips" and models to follow. The tutorial should Teach/Test players on the following minimum aspects.


Room Clearing Basics
Zones of Fire Discipline
Tactical Communication


#2: Each multiplayer map should have an intro (provided in extra content perhaps) with models developed for each map by CT/SWAT Professionals for clearing.

#3: For Multiplayer matches, include an after-action briefing with analysis of mistakes made by your team. This can show freeze frames of moments where you or your team members were flanked by a tango from a direction that should have been covered by a member of your team etc.


However, in-game tactical aids which are enforced would actually lower difficulty and realism, because its just another training wheel. All effort should be made to train the player BEFORE or AFTER the action, not during. Once the game starts, training is over, and it's time to apply what you've learned.

1. They should only require a "must pass" for ranked / competitive mode, if there is one (which I'm hoping there will be) so that noobs don't jump straight into it without knowing how to play.

2. Agreed.

3. It'd be nice as an option for hardcore players, but realistically how many casual players do you think are going to stick around for that? I feel like it would end up being a waste of time creating.