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View Full Version : Player Models, and also other feedback.



Dvsilverwing
06-16-2014, 10:13 PM
Although I love cinematic trailers, a lot of times they can be misleading and so I'm happy to see a trailer featuring gameplay footage from Rainbow Six: Siege. However, I noticed one odd inconsistency between the trailer shown and the gameplay footage shown by Gametrailers and that is the player models of the OpFor (Rogue) team.

In the official Siege trailer, we saw the OpFor team with unique player models (such as in Counter-Strike), no helmets or tactical look to them, just some clothing with a vest over it and wearing balaclavas, however in the Gametrailers gameplay footage, it looks like the OpFor (Rogue) team is only using recolored skins of the Rainbow team, is there any reason for this change? Personally, I think having separate player models for both teams is far better (a la Counter-Strike) for both gameplay and immersion reasons. Firstly, with the shared player models it sort of looks like two Rainbow teams shooting and killing each other which is a little silly to be honest, while the unique and separate player models looks more like a Terrorist or Paramilitary group fighting the Rainbow team which makes far more sense. Secondly, gameplay wise, in a game that I assume will have friendly fire target identification should be a massive part of the game, and fighting a reskinned clone team of yourself in a different colored uniform is a lot more confusing is far more difficult to identify as friendly or otherwise in low light, no light, or foggy/smoky/dust scenarios.

Hopefully this inconsistency was erroneous or just in place because the playable version of the game was an update or two behind the pre-Alpha we saw in the trailer, or I just saw it incorrectly, as I feel two teams playing against each other with the same models reskinned is a massive downgrade from having separate player models for each team.

It might seem like a small nitpick, but this is going to be a massive iteration not only in the series but also the currently lacking genre of tactical shooters whether it succeeds or fails players expectations, so hopefully they're doing everything they can to make this a great game and worth our wait. It's already very exciting to see Rainbow Six returning to its roots and making a game more comparable to Raven Shield, Swat 4, Counter-Strike or even Insurgency rather than the action/cover shooter that the Vegas series was, so hopefully they do the tactical genre justice and please all of us oldschool R6 fans out there dying for a new tactical shooter to play.


-Miscellaneous feedback and comments below-

- LEAN! I'm so glad to see lean back, it's been a long time since we've seen it as a standard in shooters (other than Arma 3 and Insurgency, not many newer games are seen featuring it).

- Destructible environments look great, and really does bring about a lot of possibilities in the single map we've seen, it looks to introduce a massive amount of non-linearity and verticality to the game.

- Player models, other than the above rant, look great. Referring to the official trailer and not the Gametrailers gameplay footage, each team had their own set of models and each class had their own model, in the official trailer they looked very fitting and with each class having a certain model you're able to identify how the individual is armed, what gear they might be carrying, and what they might be able to do with the gear/arms/equipment they're outfitted with.

- The weapons we've seen so far (although I'm sure many more are to be added) seem very fitting for the setting: The G36c is a staple rifle in lots of tactical shooters, it just has a certain look to it that is not only tactical and pleasing to the eye but also "neutral" (one might consider an AKM a weapon that looks very "terrorist-y" and is commonly associated with militant groups, paramilitaries, and other unconventional forces, while its natural AR-15 styled counterparts are often considered a weapon more associated with freedom, law enforcement, and conventional military forces), which is great because it looked to be available to both sides. The MP5 (in this game seen with a possibly custom folding stock which I've personally never seen before, but it looks great) is a staple in many shooters, including previous Rainbow Six titles, it is an iconic submachine gun that again holds a very "neutral" look, although pretty much the go-to submachine gun for law enforcement groups in the United States it was also widely distributed throughout the world to many different countries, and is a believable weapon to see in the hands of both teams, and I do believe I saw both teams using it! The Benelli M4 was also seen being used by both teams, it is again a very tactical-looking shotgun and again, believable to see in the hands of both teams as I'm sure many law enforcement agencies within the US use it, but the Benelli M4 is also available and sold to Civilian consumers so I can definitely see how it may get into the hands of any militant group. The 1911 is a weapon again seen used by both sides, and for the same reasons as the Benelli M4 I can see it reasonably being used by both teams, although I did notice that it holds 10 rounds in the magazine, it looks rather too thin to be a double-stack 1911 and most double-stack 1911's will hold a little more than 10 rounds, and I also didn't notice any extruding from an extended magazine of sorts (See: Chip McCormick Power Mag) but it's not really that big of a deal, and something I'm sure everyone but the people who expect this to be a simulator will be fine with. Lastly, I saw what I believe to be a Mac 10 being used only on the Rogue side, which I feel would be a great weapon to make team-specific if that is the case (and it looks like it might be so), it has a very criminal aura to it and I think it fits the Rogue team very well.

- Planning, finally the planning phase from the old R6 games is back. It looks to play a major role in PvP multiplayer, which is a great touch, and hopefully we'll see the same from co-op multiplayer (Terrorist Hunt, anyone?) as well as the singleplayer game (maybe even a more fleshed out, in-depth version).

- The lighting looks fantastic, some areas of the house are dark and dingy while others are very brightly lit, I very much liked the way the smoke and dust from a breaching charge made the dark basement room that much less visible, and I absolutely loved the way the high contrast super bright light outside of the house made it a little difficult to see past that point in first person.

- Hit markers and arrows telling you where you're being shot from are something I'm not excited to see in the game, they take away a lot of the realism and I feel it makes a surprise ambush from the back or shooting through concealment a lot less tactical and skill-based. However, I do realize that this is still in Alpha, and in fact I feel that during the Alpha and Beta testing phases that this might actually be a beneficial feature to leave in, as it will allow the players to observe hit registration better and provide more accurate feedback during those phases. However, it's something I hope will be gone by the full, official release of the game.

- Regenerating health is also something I'm not super fond of in a tactical game. In Counter-Strike, for example, damaging another player is very crucial, and a lot of times even if you can't get the kill it's still extremely valuable to get a few shots into the player. It is even more important when playing Counter-Strike competitively, in my experience in competitive play it's often far more valuable to take chunks of health of out an opponent or two than to trade kills. It's so important in competitive play in fact, that ESEA's "RWS" ranking system is mostly based on how much damage you deal in a round (also depends on you winning the round, however).


Overall, I'm super excited for the game and hope to not only see more gameplay footage, but also that the developers openly communicate with the community and use all the constructive feedback that they can. Hopefully we'll see a closed Alpha sometime soon, and the developers will be able to use gameplay based feedback to help develop the game a little more tailored to the community that's eagerly awaiting the release.


Edit (June 17):

Another thing I'd like to post about that I see a lot of riffraff on the forums about is character customization. Although I wouldn't mind seeing very mild character customization such as changing the type of helmet, balaclava (or whatever mask they might be wearing), goggles, or things like that, I also feel that each of the games 3 classes should have a distinct look for the reason I mentioned in the OP. I also believe that the uniform color should not be customizable, simply because both teams should have their members dressed in a similar fashion. The customization in the Vegas games were too far over the top, instead of looking like an elite counter-terrorist group most players looked like a group of people you'd find at an airsoft field.

Dome500
06-17-2014, 05:17 PM
Agreed on all your points except:


- Hit markers and arrows telling you where you're being shot from are something I'm not excited to see in the game, they take away a lot of the realism and I feel it makes a surprise ambush from the back or shooting through concealment a lot less tactical and skill-based. However, I do realize that this is still in Alpha, and in fact I feel that during the Alpha and Beta testing phases that this might actually be a beneficial feature to leave in, as it will allow the players to observe hit registration better and provide more accurate feedback during those phases. However, it's something I hope will be gone by the full, official release of the game.

It is only realistic that a person who is hit by a bullet knows approximately where it came from (left, right, front, back).
So I think that is okay.

Aside from that I agree.

Pest_AWC
06-17-2014, 05:46 PM
Agreed on all your points except:It is only realistic that a person who is hit by a bullet knows approximately where it came from (left, right, front, back).So I think that is okay.Aside from that I agree.I would be fine with them leaving in the indicator on what direction you were hit from, but I would prefer it moved more toward the outside of the screen and less obtrusive. I like a nice clean realistic view without a bunch of garbage popping up in the middle area. It would also be nice to have an option to turn that off both client and server side.

Dome500
06-17-2014, 10:07 PM
I would be fine with them leaving in the indicator on what direction you were hit from, but I would prefer it moved more toward the outside of the screen and less obtrusive. I like a nice clean realistic view without a bunch of garbage popping up in the middle area. It would also be nice to have an option to turn that off both client and server side.

Agreed.

Dvsilverwing
06-17-2014, 10:47 PM
Another thing I'd like to post about that I see a lot of riffraff on the forums about is character customization. Although I wouldn't mind seeing very mild character customization such as changing the type of helmet, balaclava (or whatever mask they might be wearing), goggles, or things like that, I also feel that each of the games 3 classes should have a distinct look for the reason I mentioned in the OP. I also believe that the uniform color should not be customizable, simply because both teams should have their members dressed in a similar fashion. The customization in the Vegas games were too far over the top, instead of looking like an elite counter-terrorist group most players looked like a group of people you'd find at an airsoft field.

Dome500
06-18-2014, 02:40 PM
Another thing I'd like to post about that I see a lot of riffraff on the forums about is character customization. Although I wouldn't mind seeing very mild character customization such as changing the type of helmet, balaclava (or whatever mask they might be wearing), goggles, or things like that, I also feel that each of the games 3 classes should have a distinct look for the reason I mentioned in the OP. I also believe that the uniform color should not be customizable, simply because both teams should have their members dressed in a similar fashion. The customization in the Vegas games were too far over the top, instead of looking like an elite counter-terrorist group most players looked like a group of people you'd find at an airsoft field.


Agreed on the uniforms in multiplayer, the color should not be customizable, but I am all for weapon, gadget and gear customization, IMO a must have.
As for Coop and Sp, I hope for more customization there, like Nationality, Color of uniform, Gear, Weapons, etc.

Pest_AWC
06-18-2014, 09:05 PM
Agreed on the uniforms in multiplayer, the color should not be customizable, but I am all for weapon, gadget and gear customization, IMO a must have.
As for Coop and Sp, I hope for more customization there, like Nationality, Color of uniform, Gear, Weapons, etc.

I agree with all this...

Dvsilverwing
06-19-2014, 12:03 AM
Agreed on the uniforms in multiplayer, the color should not be customizable, but I am all for weapon, gadget and gear customization, IMO a must have.
As for Coop and Sp, I hope for more customization there, like Nationality, Color of uniform, Gear, Weapons, etc.

If you happen to watch the gameplay video by Gametrailers, you'll notice at least one of the players using a magnified optic (4x maybe?) on his G36, so it's almost guaranteed we will see moderate weapon customization at this point!

Dome500
06-19-2014, 08:48 PM
If you happen to watch the gameplay video by Gametrailers, you'll notice at least one of the players using a magnified optic (4x maybe?) on his G36, so it's almost guaranteed we will see moderate weapon customization at this point!

Amazing :D
I just love to customize my gear, it does not only add a tactical side but also a personal touch.

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
06-21-2014, 05:27 PM
'You’ll have more customization options for your agent than ever before in a Rainbow Six title.' http://blog.ubi.com/rainbow-six-siege-announced/

Dvsilverwing
06-23-2014, 10:38 PM
'You’ll have more customization options for your agent than ever before in a Rainbow Six title.' http://blog.ubi.com/rainbow-six-siege-announced/

Again, I love customization and I think it's a great way to provide more immersion and draw people in with the personalization, but hopefully the customization that they provide will be to an extent that is also realistic. As silly and entertaining it might have been at first (and most likely unintended by the developers), seeing people in Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 running around in Ninja Turtle and Iron Man costumes got a little ridiculous after awhile. Hopefully soon we will here a little more in-depth information on the customization that will be available to us, or perhaps even a few screenshots or a video!