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BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 03:43 AM
This isn't a petition regarding co-op. It's about the decision to have a male protagonist in Unity from the start. This would have been a great opportunity to diversify the already really diverse cast of Assassins. I am disappointed that Unity does not feature a female Assassin but a female skin for co-op doesn't fix anything. Since everyone plays as Arno, we would never personally see ourselves as the female skin anyway. I don't care if someone ELSE sees me as a female, I just want to be a female Assassin, period.

So instead of trying to shoehorn a female Assassin skin into the game, listen to the fans. Listen to the criticisms and controversy surrounding this and use that to bring a female protagonist to a main, console Assassin's Creed.

Aveline is a great character and her existence shows that you're not sexist by any means. Unity shows that you've listened to the fans. elements that people have been asking for since AC2 have finally been implemented and people seem overwhelmingly excited for these additions and changes. The radical change to parkour, one of the biggest elements that helped form the original game, is exciting and just increases the amount of possibilities. People have been requesting cover systems and the ability to crouch and have alternate stealth tactics in addition to the main social stealth and you listened... and it looks GREAT. You've listened to the fans when it comes to customization, to going back and really capturing the ideals of the original game while pushing them further than ever, to including more random events and side quests, to including more sandbox assassination missions similar to AC1 but bigger and better than ever with the inclusion of seamless interiors, to giving us more options with how to progress through missions and ditching the overly linear objectives...

In fact, all of that equates to Unity sounding like the Assassin's Creed I've been wanting since AC2. I am disappointed in Unity featuring yet another male protagonist but to sacrifice really cool elements in favor of possibly including a female skin is not what we want. Why? Because that doesn't solve the issue. We'd still be Arno from our perspective and that could possibly take away the really cool elements that would make this the best AC ever.

So keep Unity as is. But please, Ubisoft. Make the next protagonist a female. You've proven that you've listened to us on numerous things with Unity. Listen to us again and include an awesome female Assassin. Whether it's Shao Jun or a completely new Assassin doesn't even really matter. It could be a different female Chinese Assassin (that way you can have China but can pick a different time period other than the one Shao Jun is from) but it could be a different character in a different setting altogether.

But you'd make a lot of fans happy with a double whammy like female Assassin AND China in one game. Plus... we all know the game would be great because it'd be coming from the base that Unity created.

Sincerely,
Bob (and anyone else who agrees that AC should feature more female protagonists in the main console games)

P.S. There. I made it. A thread looking forward to the next AC... one that would feature a female protagonist rather than focusing on changing a game that only has a few months left before release. No need to delay the game for something that people couldn't even truly appreciate. Ubisoft should take this as an opportunity to learn and think about including more female heroes in not just AC but perhaps in all of their games as well.

STDlyMcStudpants
06-13-2014, 03:44 AM
Or just interesting... idc whats in their pants...

Shahkulu101
06-13-2014, 03:45 AM
Do this if you please. I personally want this, but do not feel obliged Ubisoft. :rolleyes:

Megas_Doux
06-13-2014, 03:46 AM
I would like to, but considering AC 2015 is already in the making.........

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 03:47 AM
I would like to, but considering AC 2015 is already in the making.........

I know... I'm hoping it's not too far along that if they don't already have a female Assassin going, there's plenty of time to still have one. :l

JustPlainQuirky
06-13-2014, 03:49 AM
Ubisoft already has 5 AC games done by now lol.

Shahkulu101
06-13-2014, 03:51 AM
I would like to, but considering AC 2015 is already in the making.........

That's a good point. You're asking for the next game to enter production to have a female Assassin, for all we know that could be 2018's game. So you know, don't think Ubisoft didn't listen to this particular controversy (not this thread the whole shabang) if the next game doesn't have a female. Might want to reconsider quitting the series if that's the case too, Bob. Remember these games aren't made chronologically, some feedback is redundant as games are already in production. Stuff like the gender of the protagonist is very unlikely to be changed...

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 04:05 AM
That's all true but I can vote with my wallet. I can quit the series after Unity and then return once they finally DO introduce a female hero. I love AC but to buy AC after AC even if they were already in production and couldn't alter the gender wouldn't be right because again... it's 2014 and I already think Unity should have had a female protagonist. Each subsequent game has less and less of an excuse at this point.

So if the next game is too far along and has a male hero, my question is -- why didn't it just occur to you guys to make this a female protagonist from the beginning? It's the same question I ask about Unity only each subsequent game, the question is (theoretically) spoken with more urgency because then the male protagonists would be stacking and the lack of a female protag gets weirder and weirder.

It's like when Ubisoft didn't listen to the fans about armor. It's like we all asked why Ubisoft didn't give us the option to unequip armor because it's just a weird design. Then Brotherhood was released and they STILL didn't give us an actual way of removing armor, we could only do so through a glitch (that didn't even remove ALL the armor). So now we're like "really, Ubisoft? Why?"

But then ACR comes out and they STILL didn't provide a way to remove armor except via a glitch and now it's like "Are you f*cking kidding me?!" Same idea... If the next game doesn't have a female... why? And the game after that one? Why not have a female Assassin? And so on.

So yeah... I don't think I'll be going back on that promise. It's not meant as a "threat" by any means because I love the series. But I gotta stand for my views and part of that is by not giving money to them when I think they should include more female protags. I'm already torn about Unity because I feel I should begin now but the only reason I'm getting this is because, like I said, this looks like the AC I've always wanted and I don't want my last AC to be one I didn't really enjoy (AC3 was the last one I played and blehhhhhh and AC4 doesn't interest me) so if Unity delivers on its promises... this would be a good last AC for me at least for awhile if the next game or two or ten doesn't have a female hero.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 04:06 AM
Who cares what gender the character is?

I play a lot of female characters in other games but whether it has a female character or not is of hero importance to me.

I mean seriously tell me what adding a female character adds. Seriously tell me.

JustPlainQuirky
06-13-2014, 04:12 AM
Who cares what gender the character is?

I play a lot of female characters in other games but whether it has a female character or not is of hero importance to me.

I mean seriously tell me what adding a female character adds. Seriously tell me.

But but....society

but but ...progression

but but...social commentary...

but but...diversity..

hue.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 04:16 AM
But but....society

but but ...progression

but but...social commentary...

but but...diversity..

hue.

First world problems of feminists who have to whine about **** that doesn't ****ing matter. Nothing against feminists but some of these internet ones... seriously..

DumbGamerTag94
06-13-2014, 04:20 AM
Personally I really don't care but I'd have to pass. They can make a great game with female protagonists take Tomb Raider for example. Only AC tried a female lead with Liberation. And she is disliked almost as much as Conner. There is literally nothing to her character. On top of that as a guy I felt rather weird playing as a woman. It just didn't feel right to me. I didn't feel as immersed or relate as well as I did to male protagonists.

On top of that it's a market that's highly male dominated. And they depend on a lot of their money coming from casual gamers making a buy for the intrigue of it. Weather it's the setting or a cool looking protagonist. Or their favorite historic figure. But I feel a female protagonist would likely drop sales rather than raise them. Because the simple fact that Most(but far from all) male casual gamers have no interest or need to play a game as a woman. I know I felt weird playing liberation and I consider myself a semi serious gamer. But my friends who mostly play COD or Madden wouldn't spend a dime on a girl centric game. And most of them own at least one AC game and another I got hooked on the whole series.

It's just not a logical financial decision for UBI. Sure you can go on about the successes of Tomb Raider or Metroid. But in all seriousness those games have always had a female protagonist. I would bet any money if they switched to a male for one game a lot of casuals might pick up tomb raider who normally wouldn't and sales would rise(not that they're bad now) but they would still increase. And same for Metroid or any other female centric game. It just scares off male impulse buyers. If it happens I am willing to bet anyone on here that sales go down in comparison to previous titles for AC. The only way I could see it not is if they stuck her in the most kick *** setting ever. And even then I highly doubt it would touch AC3s sales. Or AC4 for that matter.

There's a time to be an idealist and a time to be a realist. And REALISTICALLY does it make sense for Ubi to make a main game centered around a woman? I really don't think it does. I'm not saying that's right or a good thing. But it just is.

Personally I think that they should do one game with two protagonists. One male and one female. And you get to choose which one to play as. And cool players or AI would show up as the other if they help you. That way everyone wins. That would be a good option for one or 2 games.

It'd be even better if the man was Black/Arab. And the woman Asian/Indian. So that way not only could people stop crying sexism but then they could stop yelling racism too.

It's sad we live in a world that's become so fascistly politically correct that they can't have a white French man be a protagonist for a game set in the French Revolution(which only makes sense given the period and location) without screaming racism or sexism.

It's lost all logic to it. Anymore people just yell it for no good reason other than....Well it's not a girl or a minority so then it must be racist/sexist!

In fact I think the obsession with what race or sex something is these days is exactly the opposite of what we need. We've sharpened our sense of race/gender rather than blurring lines and eliminating barriers. I thing being so hung up on race or sex is more racist than the people many accuse of being racist/sexist. You're obviously the one who's hung up on race or sex so that means you are judging the choice based in your racist/sexist bias. What is wrong with playing as a man? Or being a white person?

It's not like we haven't had diversity in AC. There's Adelawe, Aveline, Conner. What do you want. You people are just being ignorant. And you are so obsessed with "eliminating racism and gender bias" that you are completely blind to that fact that by acting the way you are you are being Racist and Gender Biased. Why automatically assume racism or sexism because it's a white man. How about they chose it because it's the 1700s in France? Ever think that's it. That it wasn't some evil diabolical racist sexist plot and that people are always out to get you?

I'm sorry for the outburst but as someone who really doesn't care about people's race religion sex or orientation I find it disgusting that people bicker over such nonsense rather than just thinking about what the rational decision is

JustPlainQuirky
06-13-2014, 04:22 AM
First world problems of feminists who have to whine about **** that doesn't ****ing matter. Nothing against feminists but some of these internet ones... seriously..

Yup yup yup I agree.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 04:27 AM
Who cares what gender the character is?

I play a lot of female characters in other games but whether it has a female character or not is of hero importance to me.

I mean seriously tell me what adding a female character adds. Seriously tell me.

Gender representation which does a number of things.

1. Represents the gaming fanbase better. Around half, give or take, of gamers are female and yet very little games feature female heroes.
2. It would better represent the entire global population better. In fact, I believe women are actually in the MAJORITY with like 50 point something percent of the population. You don't see that reflected in the entertainment industry though.
3. More female protagonists means that women can have more varied roles in media (games, film, TV, etc. Not JUST games) because when women ARE represented... they're often either a motivation for the male hero or otherwise a plot device rather than a character (damsel in distress or his "rock") or a stereotype (likes to shop, lives revolve around men, etc.). That kind of false representation hurts societal perception of women and more people tend to believe that women are like that. Of COURSE some women are. Some guys as d-bags and we see a lot of d-bags in media... difference is, we also see quite a range of different personalities and roles for men and see those different personalities more OFTEN.
4. Helps diversify things and keep things fresh. The same thing over and over is monotonous. Seeing the same type of shooter is criticized. CoD is often given crap for releasing games that are essentially the same thing year after year with very little difference. This is the same thing... having male hero after male hero after male hero is boring.
5. Women care and if we're not being sexist, we should respect what people care about ESPECIALLY if it doesn't harm or otherwise ruin anything for us. It's why gays should be allowed to marry because even if you're not gay, gays getting married does not affect you in any way. But preventing them from getting married does harm THEM. In this case, it doesn't harm YOU to include a female protagonist because like you said "the gender shouldn't matter." But it DOES matter to some so why NOT make the protagonist a female is a better question. Some might try and twist that and say it harms them because reverse sexism blahblahblah. But really, no it does not. Because once again...the vast majority of games and media in general already feature men as heroes and leaders. And when a series has already had 7 main console games (counting Unity) each with a main male character, reverse sexism is most certainly NOT a thing considering A. women do not have the power to enforce the subjugation of men and B. even if they did, the series currently has 7 games led by male characters so that's not the case regardless.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 04:31 AM
Only AC tried a female lead with Liberation. And she is disliked almost as much as Conner. There is literally nothing to her character.

And that's a problem of having a female? No, that was Ubisoft's fault for not writing her better. In fact, one could assume Ubisoft didn't flesh her story and character out as much because her game was just a handheld title and not one of the main console games. Besides, some would argue she IS a good character.


On top of that as a guy I felt rather weird playing as a woman. It just didn't feel right to me. I didn't feel as immersed or relate as well as I did to male protagonists.

Ohhhhh... OH REALLY? And you don't think that...maybe...just MAAAAAYBE, women don't feel as connected when they have to play as a male character? And have to do so a hell of a lot more often than YOU have to play as a female? :rolleyes:

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 04:44 AM
This..this I can get behind. (Pun not intended)

Wolfmeister1010
06-13-2014, 04:46 AM
Whenever a single person threatens to not buy the next AC because whatever reason, I just laugh out loud, even if I agree with them. They are a multi-billion dollar company and I enjoy watching poor fools act like such big powerful badasses by threatening to not buy their games.

@OP Not referring to you, but you are kinda being annoying in the sense that you are threatening to not play their games anymore unless they make a female protagonist...like they owe you a favor. I guess I am like Shahk. They can keep making male protagonists if they want, because it is their game. But if they decide to include a female protagonist, I would be happy.

Xstantin
06-13-2014, 04:49 AM
@Wolf, I know the gif is old but

http://i.imgur.com/iFGpahw.gif

DumbGamerTag94
06-13-2014, 04:50 AM
And that's a problem of having a female? No, that was Ubisoft's fault for not writing her better. In fact, one could assume Ubisoft didn't flesh her story and character out as much because her game was just a handheld title and not one of the main console games. Besides, some would argue she IS a good character.



Oh really? And you don't think that...maybe...just MAAAAAYBE, women don't feel as connected when they have to play as a male character? And have to do so a hell of a lot more often than YOU have to play as a female? :rolleyes:
Well I'm just sayin Aveline is pretty much universally hated as a character my MOST people. I really don't care about what SOME people think. Because honestly would Ubi rather sell a game to SOME people or MOST people?

And I understand you don't feel comfortable playing as a man. But I don't feel comfortable playing as a girl. How is it any better for you to force others to play as a girl than for others to force you to play as a man.

And nobodies forcing anyone here. You don't have to buy it. And it's a male driven industry. I wouldn't expect to force gossip magazines to promote more guy friendly material. It's just what you have to live with when you partake in a male dominated activity. I would expect to feel odd or out of place as a salon worker. Just as a woman would feel odd working in an Auto Garage. It's not that something is inherently wrong with either of those businesses. It's just the was it is and has been. A woman can work at the garage or a man at the salon. But they should expect to feel awkward. And shouldn't expect that entire industry to bend to thier needs. If you don't like it then just don't play AC or if that's not enough for u. Just don't play video games then.

Shahkulu101
06-13-2014, 04:50 AM
This..this I can get behind. (Pun not intended)

Hahahahahahah

+1

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 04:50 AM
Yes, I'd be happy to play as a female protag, infact I'd prefer it. But would not scream at despair at the evil white men conspiring against me if I get to play a white dude again.

On that topic, I feel we need to add a fat assassin too. You know they are terribly underrepresented, even worse than women. And it would help the self-esteem of an obese kid a lot to see a hero just like him, kicking ***.. :rolleyes:

Xstantin
06-13-2014, 04:54 AM
On that topic, I feel we need to add a fat assassin too. You know they are terribly underrepresented, even worse than women. And it would help the self-esteem of an obese kid a lot to see a hero just like him, kicking ***.. :rolleyes:

A mentor assassin who let himself or herself go. And they get fatter with progression.

DumbGamerTag94
06-13-2014, 04:54 AM
Pirate you're freakin hilarious lol. I amidst died laughing. U are now my favorite person on here lol

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 04:56 AM
Whenever a single person threatens to not buy the next AC because whatever reason, I just laugh out loud, even if I agree with them. They are a multi-billion dollar company and I enjoy watching poor fools act like such big powerful badasses by threatening to not buy their games.

@OP Not referring to you, but you are kinda being annoying in the sense that you are threatening to not play their games anymore unless they make a female protagonist...like they owe you a favor. I guess I am like Shahk. They can keep making male protagonists if they want, because it is their game. But if they decide to include a female protagonist, I would be happy.

You act as if I believe I have any control over Ubisoft. I don't fool myself into believing that me not buying their game affects them. Heck, I know it doesn't because I haven't bought or played AC4 yet.

It's not that I'm saying "ooh yeah, take that. you'll be hurting for my money when I don't give it to you, HAH!"

It's just I don't want to add MY money to the money they'll already be earning. It's like if there's a charity (a big one) was theoretically raising funds to... idk... do something I dislike. For example... and NO I AM NOT COMPARING UBISOFT TO THIS EXAMPLE -- a very popular group starts raising funds to MAKE women wear dresses and only dresses. And let's say, for whatever reason, they're getting a LOT of money. They're getting so much money that they're able to make this a reality. Now pretend this was a charity I used to donate to because they were feeding children or something. If they suddenly changed and did that horrible thing... I would NOT give them my money and I would state why not. Not because I think it'll hurt them because it's obvious in Ubisoft's case and my totally WTF scenario that my money won't mean jack squat. I just don't want to support that.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 04:58 AM
Yes, I'd be happy to play as a female protag, infact I'd prefer it. But would not scream at despair at the evil white men conspiring against me if I get to play a white dude again.

On that topic, I feel we need to add a fat assassin too. You know they are terribly underrepresented, even worse than women. And it would help the self-esteem of an obese kid a lot to see a hero just like him, kicking ***.. :rolleyes:

Uh dude. they already have the best hero they could ask for.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Kevin_Smith_VidCon_2012.jpg

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 05:00 AM
Hahahahahahah

+1

These kinds of discussions give birth to lots of unintentional comedy. Getting behind someone, evil men 'shafting' women.. etcetera


Uh dude. they already have the best hero they could ask for.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Kevin_Smith_VidCon_2012.jpg

But he's not of moi skin colour! Also unlike me he does have a beard. Clearly he doesn't represent me and my minoriteh

I-Like-Pie45
06-13-2014, 05:01 AM
UNLESS THEY HAPPEN TO BE BATMAN FANS (http://www.geekosystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/batman-wets-pants-550x124.jpg)

----

KEVIN SMITH, LADIES AND GENTS - rc

LoyalACFan
06-13-2014, 05:06 AM
Now, this I can get behind, not the co-op rubbish. I still want a Shao Jun game, imagine a Chinese setting with all the glorious power of next-gen exclusivity, mmm...

I-Like-Pie45
06-13-2014, 05:09 AM
I THINK THE NEXT GAME SHOULD BE SET IN CHINA BUT DURING THE 19TH CENTURY WITH ALL THE CHARACTERS TALKING IN BRITISH ACCENTS

----

rc

shobhit7777777
06-13-2014, 05:12 AM
Dear Ubisoft

Your primary concern should be making a good game.

If a female protagonist better serves the narrative and gameplay - Please, by all means do it. If you want to tell a tale from a female perspective - go for it. You're don't owe anyone anything. Don't shove in a female protagonist because of "controversies" and outraged folks.

Do what is is best for the game. Do what YOU want to do...and deliver an outstanding product.

- Shobhit

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 05:16 AM
Now, this I can get behind, not the co-op rubbish. I still want a Shao Jun game, imagine a Chinese setting with all the glorious power of next-gen exclusivity, mmm...

Dude...the architecture. YES. Thank you for at least taking this somewhat seriously.. hah

Rope darts,\ would make the most sense finally, the paper lanterns would look beautiful glowing at night... and just. Perfection. Plus with all the things from Unity carried over like random events, side quests, customization, etc. It'd be great. I don't even need it to be Shao Jun... it could be another chinese female Assassin for all I care so that way they're not tied to 1500s China.

China in an AC game is like..my ultimate dream AC.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 05:18 AM
Gender representation which does a number of things.

1. Represents the gaming fanbase better. Around half, give or take, of gamers are female and yet very little games feature female heroes.
2. It would better represent the entire global population better. In fact, I believe women are actually in the MAJORITY with like 50 point something percent of the population. You don't see that reflected in the entertainment industry though.
3. More female protagonists means that women can have more varied roles in media (games, film, TV, etc. Not JUST games) because when women ARE represented... they're often either a motivation for the male hero or otherwise a plot device rather than a character (damsel in distress or his "rock") or a stereotype (likes to shop, lives revolve around men, etc.). That kind of false representation hurts societal perception of women and more people tend to believe that women are like that. Of COURSE some women are. Some guys as d-bags and we see a lot of d-bags in media... difference is, we also see quite a range of different personalities and roles for men and see those different personalities more OFTEN.
4. Helps diversify things and keep things fresh. The same thing over and over is monotonous. Seeing the same type of shooter is criticized. CoD is often given crap for releasing games that are essentially the same thing year after year with very little difference. This is the same thing... having male hero after male hero after male hero is boring.
5. Women care and if we're not being sexist, we should respect what people care about ESPECIALLY if it doesn't harm or otherwise ruin anything for us. It's why gays should be allowed to marry because even if you're not gay, gays getting married does not affect you in any way. But preventing them from getting married does harm THEM. In this case, it doesn't harm YOU to include a female protagonist because like you said "the gender shouldn't matter." But it DOES matter to some so why NOT make the protagonist a female is a better question. Some might try and twist that and say it harms them because reverse sexism blahblahblah. But really, no it does not. Because once again...the vast majority of games and media in general already feature men as heroes and leaders. And when a series has already had 7 main console games (counting Unity) each with a main male character, reverse sexism is most certainly NOT a thing considering A. women do not have the power to enforce the subjugation of men and B. even if they did, the series currently has 7 games led by male characters so that's not the case regardless.

Here it is ladies and gentlemen. A spewing of social justice ********. I gave you the benefit of the doubt at first, assuming you had a better argument than "we need more representation" but of course not. I expected too much of you.

1 -> Who in the **** cares? I play Skyrim as a girl, Pokemon as a girl, MMO's as a girl and everything else that doesn't have a girl I don't give a ****. That's the companies choice to make a character that they want to make, not shoehorn in something because some whiney mother****er on the internet is whining about representation which is ********. There ARE good games with female protagonists out there, Eternal Darkness, Silent Hill 3, Final Fantasy 6, Pokemon, Tomb Raider, Skyrim.... I could go on all day. Why the **** do you need a woman in every damn game to be satisfied or feel represented? It's pathetic.

2 -> And? Just more representation ****, who cares? There's plenty of issues in the world and income inequality is still a thing for women and YET here you are, whining about video games instead of doing something productive.

3 -> All the games I listed above break the stereotype so gtfo with that ****, you know it's ********. Don't waste my time with that copy paste argument. It lacks weight and credibility.

4 -> Diversity crap. God damn you're a stereotype yourself.. Whether the character is a female or not doesn't affect normal sane people, cause they don't ****ing care cause they have other **** to worry about like paying bills, keeping steady work, improving the lives of their families and putting bread on the damn table. You know **** that actually matters.

5 -> Don't be an idiot, I do care about people, I just don't care about stupid **** like this. It's Ubisofts game. They have the RIGHT to make a character whatever color and whatever gender they damn well please and you whiners have no right to whine endlessly like it's some crime that they don't make a female character CAUSE IT'S NOT. There are plenty of games with good females characters that aren't just sex symbols and if you don't realize that put down your ****ing controller and stop talking about video games.

So in short all you gave me was the usual stereotypical ********.

Blah blah blah representation, blah blah blah sexism, blah blah blah hurts women.

***** please, any sane and successful woman has far more important **** to worry about than whether or not there's enough video games with women in them -.-

This planet is getting pathetic, some people have this PC ******** shoved so far up their *** that they argue for representation where it's already there and not needed in large quantities instead of tackling REAL issues.

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 05:25 AM
Please Ubisoft don't pander to anyone and just make whatever game you want to make.

Wolfmeister1010
06-13-2014, 05:30 AM
You act as if I believe I have any control over Ubisoft. I don't fool myself into believing that me not buying their game affects them. Heck, I know it doesn't because I haven't bought or played AC4 yet.

It's not that I'm saying "ooh yeah, take that. you'll be hurting for my money when I don't give it to you, HAH!"

It's just I don't want to add MY money to the money they'll already be earning. It's like if there's a charity (a big one) was theoretically raising funds to... idk... do something I dislike. For example... and NO I AM NOT COMPARING UBISOFT TO THIS EXAMPLE -- a very popular group starts raising funds to MAKE women wear dresses and only dresses. And let's say, for whatever reason, they're getting a LOT of money. They're getting so much money that they're able to make this a reality. Now pretend this was a charity I used to donate to because they were feeding children or something. If they suddenly changed and did that horrible thing... I would NOT give them my money and I would state why not. Not because I think it'll hurt them because it's obvious in Ubisoft's case and my totally WTF scenario that my money won't mean jack squat. I just don't want to support that.

I said I wasn't referring to you when I say people who act like they can threaten Ubisoft. I just think it is annoying how you say they are "running out of excuses" as if they are committing a crime.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 05:32 AM
Dear Ubisoft

Your primary concern should be making a good game.

If a female protagonist better serves the narrative and gameplay - Please, by all means do it. If you want to tell a tale from a female perspective - go for it. You're don't owe anyone anything. Don't shove in a female protagonist because of "controversies" and outraged folks.

Do what is is best for the game. Do what YOU want to do...and deliver an outstanding product.

- Shobhit

Dear Ubisoft

Hey again. Lots of people like to talk about doing what you want to do and only having a female protagonist if it suits the narrative and gameplay. What they seem to not recognize or understand is that there's really no inherent difference to a male or female hero. Having a female would not fundamentally change the gameplay because why would it? Answer: well... it wouldn't.

And the narrative? Most heroes could be male OR female. Connor could have been a female Native/English character seeking to bring justice to those who would seek to take freedom and lives.

Ezio could have been an Ezia with the only noticeable difference being that she likely wouldn't have been able to get away with fooling around as much because she would have been labelled as promiscuous or other terms that aren't nice to women. And the sad thing is that we still think like that today...

For instance... The Last Airbender COULD have been a girl. There was nothing in the story of a last Airbender that needed to make Aang a male except for maybe minor things in a few episodes IF any. Likewise, Korra could have been a guy instead because for the most part, the story would largely remain unchanged by having a male waterbender Avatar. Alien's script was written gender neutral and because of that we got a really cool female hero. Had they not done that and instead opted to only look for a man.....well..

So anyway. Of course...do what YOU want to do. What you want to do should also be good and progressive since that's what the characters in your games are literally FIGHTING for.

Sincerely,
Bob.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 05:35 AM
Dear Ubisoft

Hey again. Lots of people like to talk about doing what you want to do and only having a female protagonist if it suits the narrative and gameplay. What they seem to not recognize or understand is that there's really no inherent difference to a male or female hero. Having a female would not fundamentally change the gameplay because why would it? Answer: well... it wouldn't.

And the narrative? Most heroes could be male OR female. Connor could have been a female Native/English character seeking to bring justice to those who would seek to take freedom and lives.

Ezio could have been an Ezia with the only noticeable difference being that she likely wouldn't have been able to get away with fooling around as much because she would have been labelled as promiscuous or other terms that aren't nice to women. And the sad thing is that we still think like that today...

For instance... The Last Airbender COULD have been a girl. There was nothing in the story of a last Airbender that needed to make Aang a male except for maybe minor things in a few episodes IF any. Likewise, Korra could have been a guy instead because for the most part, the story would largely remain unchanged by having a male waterbender Avatar. Alien's script was written gender neutral and because of that we got a really cool female hero. Had they not done that and instead opted to only look for a man.....well..

So anyway. Of course...do what YOU want to do. What you want to do should also be good and progressive since that's what the characters in your games are literally FIGHTING for.

Sincerely,
Bob.

Do you not see the ****ing point?

There's no difference and thus NO reason to change.

You just pointed out why your entire argument is stupid. Are you really so oblivious?

There it is, that progressive argument ******** again.

Yeah Ubisoft please put a female protagonist in the game SOLELY to be progressive. /SARCASM.

You're just terrible.. Are you trolling or something? Cause I must say, you're quite capable at it.

LoyalACFan
06-13-2014, 05:37 AM
Let me just put a disclaimer on my approval; I do NOT want a female Assassin IF they turn it into a gimmick. I want nothing to change about the way the gameplay and story are presented (though obviously sexism & stuff has to be in to some degree depending on the era). Ubi has done a relatively good job with their women characters thus far, but if they make her animations stupidly sexual like Catwoman in Arkham City I'll be pissed. And she should be just as tough as any of the male Assassins; one thing that bugged the sh*t our of me in Tomb Raider was the way Lara moaned and squealed every time she tripped over so much as a god damn pebble. Lots of people point to TR as a shining example of strong women in games, but to me it honestly felt like the message of the game was "wow, it's amazing, despite being a weak girl, she pulled it off!"

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 05:40 AM
Let me just put a disclaimer on my approval; I do NOT want a female Assassin IF they turn it into a gimmick. I want nothing to change about the way the gameplay and story are presented (though obviously sexism & stuff has to be in to some degree depending on the era). Ubi has done a relatively good job with their women characters thus far, but if they make her animations stupidly sexual like Catwoman in Arkham City I'll be pissed. And she should be just as tough as any of the male Assassins; one thing that bugged the sh*t our of me in Tomb Raider was the way Lara moaned and squealed every time she tripped over so much as a god damn pebble. Lots of people point to TR as a shining example of strong women in games, but to me it honestly felt like the message of the game was "wow, it's amazing, despite being a weak girl, she pulled it off!"

I never saw it that way, personally I felt it was to show her transition from a relatively safe profession, to traversing dangerous lands with people that want to kill her around every corner.

Kind of like putting a rich kid into a ghetto with no money on his/her person.

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 05:41 AM
Kind of like Farcry 3 but with a female?

LoyalACFan
06-13-2014, 05:42 AM
I never saw it that way, personally I felt it was to show her transition from a relatively safe profession, to traversing dangerous lands with people that want to kill her around every corner.

Kind of like putting a rich kid into a ghetto with no money on his/her person.

Elena Fisher was a much better example of what you're describing IMO. To me Lara always seemed like she was about one loud noise away from a nervous breakdown.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 05:46 AM
Elena Fisher was a much better example of what you're describing IMO. To me Lara always seemed like she was about one loud noise away from a nervous breakdown.

Granted she was pretty noisy, it really annoyed the crap out of me that when standing still she would continually huff and puff. I put 70 hours into TR according to steam, I can imagine possibly being quite vocal at such grievous injuries myself, I mean **** most of the time she's tumbling down mountains, getting stabbed, shot, burnt, hit with the handles of guns and the like.

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 05:46 AM
Dear Ubisoft

Hey again. Lots of people like to talk about doing what you want to do and only having a female protagonist if it suits the narrative and gameplay. What they seem to not recognize or understand is that there's really no inherent difference to a male or female hero. Having a female would not fundamentally change the gameplay because why would it? Answer: well... it wouldn't.

And the narrative? Most heroes could be male OR female. Connor could have been a female Native/English character seeking to bring justice to those who would seek to take freedom and lives.

Ezio could have been an Ezia with the only noticeable difference being that she likely wouldn't have been able to get away with fooling around as much because she would have been labelled as promiscuous or other terms that aren't nice to women. And the sad thing is that we still think like that today...

For instance... The Last Airbender COULD have been a girl. There was nothing in the story of a last Airbender that needed to make Aang a male except for maybe minor things in a few episodes IF any. Likewise, Korra could have been a guy instead because for the most part, the story would largely remain unchanged by having a male waterbender Avatar. Alien's script was written gender neutral and because of that we got a really cool female hero. Had they not done that and instead opted to only look for a man.....well..

So anyway. Of course...do what YOU want to do. What you want to do should also be good and progressive since that's what the characters in your games are literally FIGHTING for.

Sincerely,
Bob.

lol that is a foolish argument, if the story was written with a male as a protagonist, it should be made that way if it was wriiten with a female character in mind it should be made that way, what should not happen is Ubisoft should not pander to anyone they should not make a female character male just because the fans would like it. I hate people who come here with an agenda, the only thing Ubisoft should care about is making the best game possible, and also a female Ezio or Connor would be fundamentally different people, because women and men are different no matter what you argue the world treats men and women differently, the two games would have to be rebuilt to show the world as a woman would see it especially in those times. If you don't understand that I feel sorry for you.


Let me ask you would you want Martin Scorsese or Steven Spielberg to swap the genders of there characters in their films? Or you favourite Author to do the same?

Dev_Anj
06-13-2014, 05:47 AM
Yes, I'd be happy to play as a female protag, infact I'd prefer it. But would not scream at despair at the evil white men conspiring against me if I get to play a white dude again.

On that topic, I feel we need to add a fat assassin too. You know they are terribly underrepresented, even worse than women. And it would help the self-esteem of an obese kid a lot to see a hero just like him, kicking ***.. :rolleyes:

Hahahahahaha!

While we're at it, why not add a monkey assassin as well? They too have life and don't deserved to be discriminated against. :p

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 05:54 AM
ugh sorry delete this mods

shobhit7777777
06-13-2014, 05:54 AM
Dear Ubisoft

Hey again. Lots of people like to talk about doing what you want to do and only having a female protagonist if it suits the narrative and gameplay. What they seem to not recognize or understand is that there's really no inherent difference to a male or female hero. Having a female would not fundamentally change the gameplay because why would it? Answer: well... it wouldn't.

And the narrative? Most heroes could be male OR female. Connor could have been a female Native/English character seeking to bring justice to those who would seek to take freedom and lives.

Ezio could have been an Ezia with the only noticeable difference being that she likely wouldn't have been able to get away with fooling around as much because she would have been labelled as promiscuous or other terms that aren't nice to women. And the sad thing is that we still think like that today...

For instance... The Last Airbender COULD have been a girl. There was nothing in the story of a last Airbender that needed to make Aang a male except for maybe minor things in a few episodes IF any. Likewise, Korra could have been a guy instead because for the most part, the story would largely remain unchanged by having a male waterbender Avatar. Alien's script was written gender neutral and because of that we got a really cool female hero. Had they not done that and instead opted to only look for a man.....well..

So anyway. Of course...do what YOU want to do. What you want to do should also be good and progressive since that's what the characters in your games are literally FIGHTING for.

Sincerely,
Bob.

Yes, women are no different than men and you can simply swap out the gender without a change in perspective of that character or the character itself.

Because all it takes is changing a few vowels here and tweaking the sex scenes.

I'm amazed Bob...I've seen many daft things from you...this one takes the cake.

A gender is important to a character as it lays down a core foundation. It lays down how the world in the narrative might react to them. The fact that you are talking about a simple swap (and talk about major tweaks as if they were nothing) would be a disservice to both male and females players.


Each gender has its pros and cons. It might do you good to think about WHY you want a female (or for that matter a male protagonist) especially since the only reason you put up is - moar rep!

Before every game is announced do you find yourself wishing the protagonist is female? I don't...I don't even care about the gender

My primary concern is great gameplay and an amazing narrative. Its the developers story...let them tell it.

JustPlainQuirky
06-13-2014, 05:56 AM
Please Ubisoft don't pander to anyone and just make whatever game you want to make.

This.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 05:57 AM
Yes, women are no different than men and you can simply swap out the gender without a change in perspective of that character or the character itself.

Because all it takes is changing a few vowels here and tweaking the sex scenes.

I'm amazed Bob...I've seen many daft things from you...this one takes the cake.

A gender is important to a character as it lays down a core foundation. It lays down how the world in the narrative might react to them. The fact that you are talking about a simple swap (and talk about major tweaks as if they were nothing) would be a disservice to both male and females players.


Each gender has its pros and cons. It might do you good to think about WHY you want a female (or for that matter a male protagonist) especially since the only reason you put up is - moar rep!

Before every game is announced do you find yourself wishing the protagonist is female? I don't...I don't even care about the gender

My primary concern is great gameplay and an amazing narrative. Its the developers story...let them tell it.

I'm assuming the TC posts here regularly?

My god... My apologies to you fine people for your suffering.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 06:00 AM
Here it is ladies and gentlemen. A spewing of social justice ********. I gave you the benefit of the doubt at first, assuming you had a better argument than "we need more representation" but of course not. I expected too much of you.

First... take your meds.


1 -> Who in the **** cares? I play Skyrim as a girl, Pokemon as a girl, MMO's as a girl and everything else that doesn't have a girl I don't give a ****. That's the companies choice to make a character that they want to make, not shoehorn in something because some whiney mother****er on the internet is whining about representation which is ********. There ARE good games with female protagonists out there, Eternal Darkness, Silent Hill 3, Final Fantasy 6, Pokemon, Tomb Raider, Skyrim.... I could go on all day. Why the **** do you need a woman in every damn game to be satisfied or feel represented? It's pathetic.

RPGs and MMos barely count. Know why? Because those characters are essentially a blank slate. So cut those out of the equation. Let's talk about the games that have the protagonist full fleshed out.

You can list games with strong and cool female characters all day. For every game with a female lead, you can name (well maybe not you specifically) way more with a male lead. Shall we try?

Mario (in fact there was one Mario game with 4 playable characters... 3 were male but Peach was also playable..the New Super Mario Bros. series now has 4 playable characters and guess which one was dropped? You win a cookie if you guessed "the only female"), Sonic 1-3 (Sonic has let you play as Amy and Rouge from time to time in like the Adventure games but still... still a lot more male playable characters in that anyway), Deus Ex, Deus Human Revolution, Halo, Call of Duty 1-every single one after, Splinter Cell, SC: Pandora Tomorrow, SC: Chaos Theory, SC: Double Agent, SC: Conviction, SC: Blaclist, AC1, AC2, AC3, AC4, ACU, Pac-Man, Homefront, Dead Rising, Dead Rising 2, Dead Rising 3, Thief 1, Thief 2, Thief 3, the new Thief, Dishonored, Rayman Origins, Rayman Legends, Metal Gear Solid, Star Wars the Force Unleashed, TFU 2, Team Fortress 2, The Legend of Zelda series (a game with the female character in the title that has never let you play AS the female character...), and I can go on and on and my list would end long after yours.

In fact... I was purposefully NOT including IPs with already established characters but rather games that were created AS video games. If you include that you have all of the Bond games, Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, Arkham Origins, pretty much every other super hero game out there aside from maybe like Ultimate Alliance and fighting games... speaking of which.,

When you CAN play as girls like in fighting games...they're given impossibly skimpy outfits while men are given awesome armor. Some are also guilty of adding jiggle physics to their games as well. Because women are just lipstick, bows, and boobs. Speaking of boobs... the other representation we often see is just slapping the token girl with a bow and lipstick and calling it a day. Bowser's kids for example -- they all have different personalities and you can kind of get that based on their design...the crazy one has crazy hair and has wild looking eyes. the girl on the other hand has no discernible characteristics based on her design other than "she's a girl." Because she's got a bow, lipstick, and a girly necklace.

So yeah... they're often dressed in next to nothing or are, like the Mario example, stereotypes. And Mario goes even worse. They actually GAVE Peach her game. which, in theory, sounds awesome. Except when you find out that she has the power of PMS mood swings to save the day!

How. Empowering. And not at all sexist.


2 -> And? Just more representation ****, who cares? There's plenty of issues in the world and income inequality is still a thing for women and YET here you are, whining about video games instead of doing something productive.

I am well aware of income inequality but if you for one minute believe that media does not help shape our views, you're woefully ignorant. By creating more positive images and depictions of female characters, we make more people view women less as the stereotypes we have shoved into our faces constantly and that can actually help them in other facets of life. Besides, the pay gap proves they're not equal so it's imperative we start to SHOW them as equals and that way, in time, cultural attitudes can change.


3 -> All the games I listed above break the stereotype so gtfo with that ****, you know it's ********. Don't waste my time with that copy paste argument. It lacks weight and credibility.

Yes. You can point to some great games with great female characters. I can point to films with strong female characters. I can ALSO point to TV shows with female characters who are awesome.

Legend of Korra is an amazing show with a female protagonist. That;s great. And I love the new Tomb Raider.. it's actually really cool because tomb Raider used to be pretty awful with it's unrealistic body type in conjunction with impractical outfits. They've made her realistic which is GOOD because that's one less piece of media trying to insinuate that women must be impossibly thin with big boobs. Listen...you may like big boobs and that's fine... but to make women hate their bodies because that's all they see is wrong.

The fact still remains that all those great depictions of women are still the exception to the rule. You mentioned Skyrim and other RPGs... tell me, what deep and insightful characters did you play in those games? Those games are designed to basically be a blank slate so you make them act how you want. But for games with more scripted characters.. women are largely ignored.


4 -> Diversity crap. God damn you're a stereotype yourself.. Whether the character is a female or not doesn't affect normal sane people, cause they don't ****ing care cause they have other **** to worry about like paying bills, keeping steady work, improving the lives of their families and putting bread on the damn table. You know **** that actually matters.

Seriously...meds dude. If none of what I say matters, why you getting so mad?


5 -> Don't be an idiot, I do care about people, I just don't care about stupid **** like this. It's Ubisofts game. They have the RIGHT to make a character whatever color and whatever gender they damn well please and you whiners have no right to whine endlessly like it's some crime that they don't make a female character CAUSE IT'S NOT. There are plenty of games with good females characters that aren't just sex symbols and if you don't realize that put down your ****ing controller and stop talking about video games.

So in short all you gave me was the usual stereotypical ********.

Blah blah blah representation, blah blah blah sexism, blah blah blah hurts women.

Whiners have no right to whine. But what wine will they whine about when they dine around town?

You, poor, poor soul.


***** please, any sane and successful woman has far more important **** to worry about than whether or not there's enough video games with women in them -.-

This planet is getting pathetic, some people have this PC ******** shoved so far up their *** that they argue for representation where it's already there and not needed in large quantities instead of tackling REAL issues.

Because you're definitely an expert. Obviously.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 06:23 AM
Let me just put a disclaimer on my approval; I do NOT want a female Assassin IF they turn it into a gimmick. I want nothing to change about the way the gameplay and story are presented (though obviously sexism & stuff has to be in to some degree depending on the era). Ubi has done a relatively good job with their women characters thus far, but if they make her animations stupidly sexual like Catwoman in Arkham City I'll be pissed. And she should be just as tough as any of the male Assassins; one thing that bugged the sh*t our of me in Tomb Raider was the way Lara moaned and squealed every time she tripped over so much as a god damn pebble. Lots of people point to TR as a shining example of strong women in games, but to me it honestly felt like the message of the game was "wow, it's amazing, despite being a weak girl, she pulled it off!"

This as well. I haven't played TR so I can't comment really but I thought it was more like... she lived a sheltered life and then has to learn to fight for survival. Kind of like Green Arrow (most recently depicted in the show Arrow) where he's a rich kid who's too afraid to be the future hero they later become. So during the stay on the island, he slowly becomes more capable of fighting. I thought it was something like that -- isn't Lara rich or something? I thought in the old games she lived in a mansion or something... maybe I'm wrong. Or even if she did, they might have changed that bit for the reboot.

Ah Catwoman. See? That's my point.. so many games that have playable girls aren't that much better because they oversexualize them.


lol that is a foolish argument, if the story was written with a male as a protagonist, it should be made that way if it was wriiten with a female character in mind it should be made that way, what should not happen is Ubisoft should not pander to anyone they should not make a female character male just because the fans would like it. I hate people who come here with an agenda, the only thing Ubisoft should care about is making the best game possible, and also a female Ezio or Connor would be fundamentally different people, because women and men are different no matter what you argue the world treats men and women differently, the two games would have to be rebuilt to show the world as a woman would see it especially in those times. If you don't understand that I feel sorry for you.


Let me ask you would you want Martin Scorsese or Steven Spielberg to swap the genders of there characters in their films? Or you favourite Author to do the same?

No. I'm saying the story could LARGELY remain unchanged. A game for historical purposes would almost definitely have to touch on the race and gender of anyone who isn't a white male because, especially back then, anyone different had a harder time. But make no mistake, people who don't fit that mold today still have a tougher time.

I'm not asking Ubi to delay ACU to change him into a woman and rewrite everything. I'm not asking them to do that with any of their games in the pipeline. I'm saying they should, from the getgo, have written about a female Assassin instead. For the most part, the hero is defined by his goals and beliefs... those don't necessarily differ between males or females. Again, the games with male heroes are fine. I'm saying it's time to have a female hero and just used AC2 and the existing games as examples that they would have largely remained the same aside from mostly minor details. Had they written the character as being a girl in mind from the start, the events could have been nearly identical.


Yes, women are no different than men and you can simply swap out the gender without a change in perspective of that character or the character itself.

Because all it takes is changing a few vowels here and tweaking the sex scenes.

I'm amazed Bob...I've seen many daft things from you...this one takes the cake.

A gender is important to a character as it lays down a core foundation. It lays down how the world in the narrative might react to them. The fact that you are talking about a simple swap (and talk about major tweaks as if they were nothing) would be a disservice to both male and females players.

First. Yay insult. You're always the first one. Well... maybe second. Sometimes Ken is first.

As to your actual points: again. That wasn't insinuating that each and every character can be replaced with a few changes. Let's use one of the examples I gave. Last Airbender. One of the primary heroes, Katara, is female. Her brother is Sokka. This is important early on because Sokka believes that, as a girl, Katara isn't as capable as a man. In the FIRST episode they address sexism head on and basically say "it's pretty freaking dumb." Later on that season, Katara is refused training due to her gender.

OF COURSE I want a fully fleshed out female character. It's why I don't like when people try and mention RPGs because those are mostly blank slates so while you can count that as 50/50 for both men and women... the games with fully fleshed out characters with race, gender, etc. DO count and the majority of those feature men. The good ones, the bad ones, the mediocre ones... the majority feature men.


Each gender has its pros and cons. It might do you good to think about WHY you want a female (or for that matter a male protagonist) especially since the only reason you put up is - moar rep!

Before every game is announced do you find yourself wishing the protagonist is female? I don't...I don't even care about the gender

My primary concern is great gameplay and an amazing narrative. Its the developers story...let them tell it.

Actually I do now. I never used to. Like...for Fallout and Oblivion and games where I got to choose my character... I always played as a guy. I was a guy, so I played as one. I also never thought about anything deeper than just the game because I was young and freaking video games!

But now, games with customizable characters... I largely play as a female because it's one of the few times that the hero CAN be a woman. The gender shouldn't matter. I agree with everyone. But we disagree on why.

I think gender shouldn't matter because it should be so COMMON for games, movies, television, etc. to feature female protagonists as often as male protagonists that it's just like "oh, you chose a female character. cool" or "oh, you chose a male character. cool" whereas many on here don't care simply because they don't care and don't see how it's wrong that so few women are shown. Women are less likely to be given roles behind the scenes (less female writers than male writers and not because there's less of them, they're just not hired as often) and they're less likely to even be a major character. Again.. this isn't just a problem with games but media as a whole.

Heck, even most indie games feature male protagonists. Girls who would like to play a game with a female hero are stuck with blank slate RPG characters or a very limited set of options of games with female heroes who aren't stereotypes or sexualized. And it may not directly matter to me since I'm a guy, but I just don't find it right.

P.S. And while you're right that they should tell the story THEY want to tell (as a creator, I totally get that) why is that Ubisoft and practically every other developer ALL want to almost exclusively tell stories about guys? Why is that?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85M3LnoHz6o

Some of these games and trailers have females in them but even then, if you were to make a supercut of all the women shown at E3... LOL. Just... LOL.

Also inb4 someone complains that they counted the co-op assassins as multiple characters. It's not necessarily that they think during gameplay everyone is a unique male character... but rather that the trailer still shows 4 male Assassins as a result of how they decided to do the co-op.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 06:26 AM
First... take your meds.

RPGs and MMos barely count. Know why? Because those characters are essentially a blank slate. So cut those out of the equation. Let's talk about the games that have the protagonist full fleshed out.

You can list games with strong and cool female characters all day. For every game with a female lead, you can name (well maybe not you specifically) way more with a male lead. Shall we try?

Mario (in fact there was one Mario game with 4 playable characters... 3 were male but Peach was also playable..the New Super Mario Bros. series now has 4 playable characters and guess which one was dropped? You win a cookie if you guessed "the only female"), Sonic 1-3 (Sonic has let you play as Amy and Rouge from time to time in like the Adventure games but still... still a lot more male playable characters in that anyway), Deus Ex, Deus Human Revolution, Halo, Call of Duty 1-every single one after, Splinter Cell, SC: Pandora Tomorrow, SC: Chaos Theory, SC: Double Agent, SC: Conviction, SC: Blaclist, AC1, AC2, AC3, AC4, ACU, Pac-Man, Homefront, Dead Rising, Dead Rising 2, Dead Rising 3, Thief 1, Thief 2, Thief 3, the new Thief, Dishonored, Rayman Origins, Rayman Legends, Metal Gear Solid, Star Wars the Force Unleashed, TFU 2, Team Fortress 2, The Legend of Zelda series (a game with the female character in the title that has never let you play AS the female character...), and I can go on and on and my list would end long after yours.

In fact... I was purposefully NOT including IPs with already established characters but rather games that were created AS video games. If you include that you have all of the Bond games, Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, Arkham Origins, pretty much every other super hero game out there aside from maybe like Ultimate Alliance and fighting games... speaking of which.,

When you CAN play as girls like in fighting games...they're given impossibly skimpy outfits while men are given awesome armor. Some are also guilty of adding jiggle physics to their games as well. Because women are just lipstick, bows, and boobs. Speaking of boobs... the other representation we often see is just slapping the token girl with a bow and lipstick and calling it a day. Bowser's kids for example -- they all have different personalities and you can kind of get that based on their design...the crazy one has crazy hair and has wild looking eyes. the girl on the other hand has no discernible characteristics based on her design other than "she's a girl." Because she's got a bow, lipstick, and a girly necklace.

So yeah... they're often dressed in next to nothing or are, like the Mario example, stereotypes. And Mario goes even worse. They actually GAVE Peach her game. which, in theory, sounds awesome. Except when you find out that she has the power of PMS mood swings to save the day!

How. Empowering. And not at all sexist.

So basically you're usual argument, "games have to adhere to my standards or they're sexist" did you ever consider you're getting uptight about nothing? Seriously if some virtual girl in a skimpy outfit in some stupid fighting game is bugging you then you have issues that need to be sorted out.

Secondly there are enough games out there to appease women that care, it's pathetic honestly that all you ever hear is internet feminists whining, you don't hear men whining when we're represented in God of War as muscly idiots. Grow the **** up. Life's too short to worry about pointless crap.




I am well aware of income inequality but if you for one minute believe that media does not help shape our views, you're woefully ignorant. By creating more positive images and depictions of female characters, we make more people view women less as the stereotypes we have shoved into our faces constantly and that can actually help them in other facets of life. Besides, the pay gap proves they're not equal so it's imperative we start to SHOW them as equals and that way, in time, cultural attitudes can change.

The only views that the media shapes are the stupid masses who's opinions are easily swayed because they're mindless sheep with an IQ of 80 or lower. There's inequality with men too -.- my wife can fall down the stairs and take my *** to court and get ME in trouble simply because she has a black eye. Just cause she's a woman and I'm automatically labeled a vile evil abusive man. You don't give a **** about that though do you? No. Obviously women are SOOOO oppressed in first world countries. **** for every advantage men have, women have an advantage now, especially in divorce and crime. You don't hear me constantly whining about it though.


Yes. You can point to some great games with great female characters. I can point to films with strong female characters. I can ALSO point to TV shows with female characters who are awesome.

Legend of Korra is an amazing show with a female protagonist. That;s great. And I love the new Tomb Raider.. it's actually really cool because tomb Raider used to be pretty awful with it's unrealistic body type in conjunction with impractical outfits. They've made her realistic which is GOOD because that's one less piece of media trying to insinuate that women must be impossibly thin with big boobs. Listen...you may like big boobs and that's fine... but to make women hate their bodies because that's all they see is wrong.

The fact still remains that all those great depictions of women are still the exception to the rule. You mentioned Skyrim and other RPGs... tell me, what deep and insightful characters did you play in those games? Those games are designed to basically be a blank slate so you make them act how you want. But for games with more scripted characters.. women are largely ignored.

If a woman is so stupidly insecure and has such a weak mind that what she sees on TV affects her life so deeply that she gets depressed about her body then she needs to go on meds, same for a man. You need ****ing help if some characters body on tv affects you on that level. Get the **** over it.

Plenty of female Daedra and intelligent, properly dressed and able female characters in Skyrim. Irileth for example. I'm not going to sit here and give you a list of decent female characters in Skyrim it would take me hours.

Oh the protagonist of FF6 isn't deep or insightful? Yeah just put the controller down and stop talking about video games.




Seriously...meds dude. If none of what I say matters, why you getting so mad?

I wonder where I said what you said doesn't matter? You wanna know why I'm mad? Cause I'm ****ing sick and tired of reading about people and their stupid, pathetic, unimportant first world problems. I'm tired of this ridiculous trend of hyper political correctness, it's pathetic. It's literally bending over to please everyone. Life doesn't please everyone, deal with it.

You could be a female in a third world country, a slave to your filthy cheating husband. Those people need feminism, in America it's a waste as a bunch of extremists have taken over the movement attacking enemies and problems that simply no longer exist because they literally have nothing left to fight for.


Because you're definitely an expert. Obviously.

Oh and you are? Cause you sound like every other ****tard that ever speaks about this issue as well. I can practically predict your arguments.

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 06:34 AM
No. I'm saying the story could LARGELY remain unchanged. A game for historical purposes would almost definitely have to touch on the race and gender of anyone who isn't a white male because, especially back then, anyone different had a harder time. But make no mistake, people who don't fit that mold today still have a tougher time.

I'm not asking Ubi to delay ACU to change him into a woman and rewrite everything. I'm not asking them to do that with any of their games in the pipeline. I'm saying they should, from the getgo, have written about a female Assassin instead. For the most part, the hero is defined by his goals and beliefs... those don't necessarily differ between males or females. Again, the games with male heroes are fine. I'm saying it's time to have a female hero and just used AC2 and the existing games as examples that they would have largely remained the same aside from mostly minor details. Had they written the character as being a girl in mind from the start, the events could have been nearly identical.




But they would be fundamentally different take ACR for instance, how do you think Muslims would react to a female Assassin running around Constantinople? Women and Men view the world and the world treats them in different ways and the core of an AC game is the Assassin.

If Ubisoft have a story that is best suited for a female lead then super, but if don't they should not put a female in there to pander to the white knight brigade. They should make games they want to make, and screw everyone else, if the games are good they will sell if they are not they won't. No one is not going to buy ACU because there is no woman protag.

guardian_titan
06-13-2014, 06:34 AM
Dumb question, but are those pushing for a female character really doing it for equality or to look at a woman's rear end rather than a male's? I know many guys who play females in MMOs tend to do it to either screw with other players by pretending to be a woman or to stare at their pixel bodies. I'm sure many guys also play games like Tomb Raider to do much the same thing ... especially given the prevalence of nudity mods for many games. :rolleyes:

Frankly, I'm a woman and I tend to play females in games where I can chose the sex of my character. Star Wars The Old Republic was the first time I actually chose to play a male over a female (I have 4 males and 4 females in that game). But I honestly don't care what the sex of the character is in games that I can't choose. If the story's good, it shouldn't matter who the main character is. Although I won't turn down a good looking male protagonist. :D

While women are the majority population in the world after roughly the teen years (males outnumber females at birth), males are still the majority of gamers (although that lead is rather slim). Women only outnumber men in casual games currently although women are moving into other genres. So knowing that men tend to play games like Assassin's Creed in larger numbers than women, I have to really question a man's motives for wanting a female playable assassin.

Do remember, there are at least 10+ million AC fans, but only a small portion post on the forums and other AC related sites. Those who post on forums tend to be the minority as a result ... and, as evidenced lately, the (very) vocal minority. What people here may want, the majority may not want. This is true with anything. Government, religion, even with your co-workers or school friends. You are a single voice. You may voice the opinion of a small group, but you do not voice the majority. In the end, it is Ubisoft's game. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other games out there. Or you can go make your own. If you can do better and be all inclusive, give it a go and show up Ubisoft (and every other company). Why holler at Ubisoft for being sexist (or racist)? If you can do better, then go do it.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 06:47 AM
But they would be fundamentally different take ACR for instance, how do you think Muslims would react to a female Assassin running around Constantinople? Women and Men view the world and the world treats them in different ways and the core of an AC game is the Assassin.

If Ubisoft have a story that is best suited for a female lead then super, but if don't they should not put a female in there to pander to the white knight brigade. They should make games they want to make, and screw everyone else, if the games are good they will sell if they are not they won't. No one is not going to buy ACU because there is no woman protag.

I get what you're saying but see? ACR might have been set elsewhere. If you think about it, ACR is a result of continuing Ezio's story. So fine. Now, had Ezio initially been a female rather than a male in AC2, ACB, and then ACR COULD be different. Different in the sense that yeah, they might question it more. But I wouldn't change Ezio's gender anyway.

The point is that they seem to make stories "suited" for men rather than women and Im wondering why. Like, why is every story (almost every) about a guy? Again... Ubisoft can tell whatever story they want. As a creator and someone who's been told to change my creation, I totally understand having an artistic vision and wanting to uphold that but first of all, I guarantee their artistic vision is ALREADY being altered anyway and more importantly, why is almost every artistic vision and story they come up with have to be a guy? Why I mentioned AC2 is that you could have kept the same basic plot: setting, time period, motivations (revenge), enemies, etc. and have a female hero. It's okay that they didn't. A male hero is in NO WAY bad. But if you watch the video of all the different games that focus on men... the female counterpart would be considerably smaller...even more so if you cut out every scantily clad fighter and the like.


Dumb question, but are those pushing for a female character really doing it for equality or to look at a woman's rear end rather than a male's? I know many guys who play females in MMOs tend to do it to either screw with other players by pretending to be a woman or to stare at their pixel bodies. I'm sure many guys also play games like Tomb Raider to do much the same thing ... especially given the prevalence of nudity mods for many games. :rolleyes:

Frankly, I'm a woman and I tend to play females in games where I can chose the sex of my character. Star Wars The Old Republic was the first time I actually chose to play a male over a female (I have 4 males and 4 females in that game). But I honestly don't care what the sex of the character is in games that I can't choose. If the story's good, it shouldn't matter who the main character is. Although I won't turn down a good looking male protagonist. :D

While women are the majority population in the world after roughly the teen years (males outnumber females at birth), males are still the majority of gamers (although that lead is rather slim). Women only outnumber men in casual games currently although women are moving into other genres. So knowing that men tend to play games like Assassin's Creed in larger numbers than women, I have to really question a man's motives for wanting a female playable assassin.

Do remember, there are at least 10+ million AC fans, but only a small portion post on the forums and other AC related sites. Those who post on forums tend to be the minority as a result ... and, as evidenced lately, the (very) vocal minority. What people here may want, the majority may not want. This is true with anything. Government, religion, even with your co-workers or school friends. You are a single voice. You may voice the opinion of a small group, but you do not voice the majority. In the end, it is Ubisoft's game. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other games out there. Or you can go make your own. If you can do better and be all inclusive, give it a go and show up Ubisoft (and every other company). Why holler at Ubisoft for being sexist (or racist)? If you can do better, then go do it.

I find girls really attractive but that's not my reason for wanting more women. But see? I can't "win." You tell me "there are plenty of other games, go play those or make your own" and I would love to make my own and am studying to do so... not necessarily games but entertainment -- games, comics, tv, film, whatever. But I already mentioned that 1. I'd be buying this game ANYWAY... and 2. if the next game is not a female, then I won't buy AC. If/when Ubi DID introduce a main series female Assassin, I may come back if it looks good because yes, I also want the game to be good.

Then others get mad at me for stating that I wouldn't purchase the game. :confused:

And yeah, I'm sure women are okay with an attractive male hero just like I would also be cool with an attractive female hero. They don't HAVE to be attractive or my taste but yeah.

But for the most part... I was fighting because to me, other men, and many women (not you necessarily and maybe not even necessarily a majority of girl gamers) would like to have more women featured. Many people argue that gender doesn't matter but if that were the case, if it doesn't matter to them -- why fight so hard against the inclusion of a female hero and then go mob mentality with insults because internet of course, why would you not want it for the sake of those who would like to have it? Oy. And then someone posted this at one point: "On top of that as a guy I felt rather weird playing as a woman. It just didn't feel right to me. I didn't feel as immersed or relate as well as I did to male protagonists."

And I just couldn't understand that level of double standardry and idiocy... thankfully that was very evidently the only person that ridiculous.

Anyway, seeing as this has fallen on mostly deaf ears (willingly deaf ears for the most part), I gotta go play Watch_Dogs. That game with a male hero that I MUST hate because it isn't a female hero. :rolleyes:

king-hailz
06-13-2014, 06:53 AM
The china game, if there is a china game, will be out in minimum 2 years. However i do think it woyld be a good idea to have a female one next. Although i personally thought we wpuld be playong as galina in the present day but they ****ed that up...

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 06:53 AM
I find girls really attractive but that's not my reason for wanting more women. But see? I can't "win." You tell me "there are plenty of other games, go play those or make your own" and I would love to make my own and am studying to do so... not necessarily games but entertainment -- games, comics, tv, film, whatever. But I already mentioned that 1. I'd be buying this game ANYWAY... and 2. if the next game is not a female, then I won't buy AC. If/when Ubi DID introduce a main series female Assassin, I may come back if it looks good because yes, I also want the game to be good.

Then others get mad at me for stating that I wouldn't purchase the game. :confused:

And yeah, I'm sure women are okay with an attractive male hero just like I would also be cool with an attractive female hero. They don't HAVE to be attractive or my taste but yeah.

Anyway, seeing as this has fallen on mostly deaf ears (willingly deaf ears for the most part), I gotta go play Watch_Dogs. That game with a male hero that I MUST hate because it isn't a female hero. :rolleyes:

It's whiny to state you won't buy a game simply because it doesn't include a protagonist of your preferred gender. People got mad cause it's the equivalent of attention whoring, that's the kind of **** you keep to yourself and then simply don't buy the game, clearly you wanted to get everyone involved.

Willingly deaf... that's foolish, we all hear what you're saying, it's just ******ed.

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 06:59 AM
I get what you're saying but see? ACR might have been set elsewhere. If you think about it, ACR is a result of continuing Ezio's story. So fine. Now, had Ezio initially been a female rather than a male in AC2, ACB, and then ACR COULD be different. Different in the sense that yeah, they might question it more. But I wouldn't change Ezio's gender anyway.

The point is that they seem to make stories "suited" for men rather than women and Im wondering why. Like, why is every story (almost every) about a guy? Again... Ubisoft can tell whatever story they want. As a creator and someone who's been told to change my creation, I totally understand having an artistic vision and wanting to uphold that but first of all, I guarantee their artistic vision is ALREADY being altered anyway and more importantly, why is almost every artistic vision and story they come up with have to be a guy? Why I mentioned AC2 is that you could have kept the same basic plot: setting, time period, motivations (revenge), enemies, etc. and have a female hero. It's okay that they didn't. A male hero is in NO WAY bad. But if you watch the video of all the different games that focus on men... the female counterpart would be considerably smaller...even more so if you cut out every scantily clad fighter and the like.





But it shouldn't have been set somewhere else this is the story Ubisoft wanted to tell, a story should never be changed for gender reasons. The only reason to have a woman protagonist is, if that is a story you want to tell, Ubisoft should never just shoehorn a woman into a man role to appease feminists and white knights.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 07:09 AM
But it shouldn't have been set somewhere else this is the story Ubisoft wanted to tell, a story should never be changed for gender reasons. The only reason to have a woman protagonist is, if that is a story you want to tell, Ubisoft should never just shoehorn a woman into a man role to appease feminists and white knights.

Oy with "white knights", "social justice warriors", "feminazis", "reverse sexism", "reverse racism" -- those snarky insults derail any productivity a debate on these types of topics can potentially achieve because those statements are willfully ignorant. White knight for example -- WHY is it wrong to want to be more inclusive or defend women or defend something you see as wrong? Most feminists don't want preferential treatment, they just want to be equal and they're not yet and part of that is how they're represented in media, so feminazi is another word used to dismiss an argument right off the bat.

Anyway... ACR was not the story they wanted to tell... it was rushed and made in a year maybe a little more and wasn't even originally going to EXIST. They literally made it to release a game that year. So really... ACR is the worst example here to use. But regardless... you're missing my point, had AC2 starred a female, they may have wanted to do a different story with that female character and may have never even considered Instanbul when thinking of a new location for her. Or they might have and things would be a little different to account for reactions.

Ezio is done now. So is Connor. Altair. Edward... at least for now. Connor can get that sequel some fans want but maybe later. Why wouldn't Ubisoft want to have a female -- like you say, her gender could make for some interesting scenes and things. They can address sexism and show how silly it is and that kind of stuff is not only ENTERTAINING but also GOOD for society. Ugh, I need to play W_D. Okay. For real this time. I'm getting up to play...NOW

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 07:18 AM
b..but W_D features a white male! D:

rebelguy007
06-13-2014, 07:23 AM
Personally I really don't care but I'd have to pass. They can make a great game with female protagonists take Tomb Raider for example. Only AC tried a female lead with Liberation. And she is disliked almost as much as Conner. There is literally nothing to her character. On top of that as a guy I felt rather weird playing as a woman. It just didn't feel right to me. I didn't feel as immersed or relate as well as I did to male protagonists.

On top of that it's a market that's highly male dominated. And they depend on a lot of their money coming from casual gamers making a buy for the intrigue of it. Weather it's the setting or a cool looking protagonist. Or their favorite historic figure. But I feel a female protagonist would likely drop sales rather than raise them. Because the simple fact that Most(but far from all) male casual gamers have no interest or need to play a game as a woman. I know I felt weird playing liberation and I consider myself a semi serious gamer. But my friends who mostly play COD or Madden wouldn't spend a dime on a girl centric game. And most of them own at least one AC game and another I got hooked on the whole series.

It's just not a logical financial decision for UBI. Sure you can go on about the successes of Tomb Raider or Metroid. But in all seriousness those games have always had a female protagonist. I would bet any money if they switched to a male for one game a lot of casuals might pick up tomb raider who normally wouldn't and sales would rise(not that they're bad now) but they would still increase. And same for Metroid or any other female centric game. It just scares off male impulse buyers. If it happens I am willing to bet anyone on here that sales go down in comparison to previous titles for AC. The only way I could see it not is if they stuck her in the most kick *** setting ever. And even then I highly doubt it would touch AC3s sales. Or AC4 for that matter.

There's a time to be an idealist and a time to be a realist. And REALISTICALLY does it make sense for Ubi to make a main game centered around a woman? I really don't think it does. I'm not saying that's right or a good thing. But it just is.

Personally I think that they should do one game with two protagonists. One male and one female. And you get to choose which one to play as. And cool players or AI would show up as the other if they help you. That way everyone wins. That would be a good option for one or 2 games.

It'd be even better if the man was Black/Arab. And the woman Asian/Indian. So that way not only could people stop crying sexism but then they could stop yelling racism too.

It's sad we live in a world that's become so fascistly politically correct that they can't have a white French man be a protagonist for a game set in the French Revolution(which only makes sense given the period and location) without screaming racism or sexism.

It's lost all logic to it. Anymore people just yell it for no good reason other than....Well it's not a girl or a minority so then it must be racist/sexist!

In fact I think the obsession with what race or sex something is these days is exactly the opposite of what we need. We've sharpened our sense of race/gender rather than blurring lines and eliminating barriers. I thing being so hung up on race or sex is more racist than the people many accuse of being racist/sexist. You're obviously the one who's hung up on race or sex so that means you are judging the choice based in your racist/sexist bias. What is wrong with playing as a man? Or being a white person?

It's not like we haven't had diversity in AC. There's Adelawe, Aveline, Conner. What do you want. You people are just being ignorant. And you are so obsessed with "eliminating racism and gender bias" that you are completely blind to that fact that by acting the way you are you are being Racist and Gender Biased. Why automatically assume racism or sexism because it's a white man. How about they chose it because it's the 1700s in France? Ever think that's it. That it wasn't some evil diabolical racist sexist plot and that people are always out to get you?

I'm sorry for the outburst but as someone who really doesn't care about people's race religion sex or orientation I find it disgusting that people bicker over such nonsense rather than just thinking about what the rational decision is

Iagree it should be about the story Ubisoft want and not gender because it's asked for but it's easy to be just as immersed as a female character. It isn't like females have a completely different set of emotions. If a character is angry, male or female, it's the writing that should immerse you in that anger, not the gender. Gender doesn't affect a character as much as you think

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 07:28 AM
You know its fine to want to be equal, but to force games or movies to change there story to suit a agenda is wrong a writer should just write the best story he or she can write, if the protag is female then great if its male than thats also great but a writer should not pander to social justice warriors.
Social justice warriors, and feminazis are a thing, theses people go to extremes for there beliefs and often show reverse sexism and reverse racism as you put it but there is no reverse it is only sexism and racism. What I'm saying is keep your social agenda away form movies and games. I don't care about it, I already treat everyone equally bad.

shobhit7777777
06-13-2014, 07:37 AM
Time for some educashun!

http://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/27ut97/distinct_lack_of_female_characters_due_to/ci5z8i7


Sorry for the hijack/piggyback. Most of this post isn't directed at you, but is more general ranting I need to say.Producer/Project Manager with more than a dozen shipped titles across every major platform chiming in, including more than a couple with 8-digit budgets.
Different words get used with different context within the game industry that have a different flavor internally than it might to the general public. Words like "cost", "expensive", and "feature" can mean ENTIRELY different things depending on who you're talking to.
Something "costly" could mean it takes up a lot of bandwidth cycles within a game engine. Something "expensive" could mean that the project manager feels it's going to take a lot of work/effort/complexity during a particular release cycle. Something that's a feature could simply be a particular requested item from a designer (could also be called a story, an epic, an ask, an item, or whatever terminology that team is using at the time, often depending on the methodology the team is using for production).
On my current team, EVERYTHING that is requested by the EP, CD, or designers is a "feature" - regardless of what it is. Want a new animation? That's a feature. Want a new weapon type? Feature. New character archetype? Feature. Anything new that does not already exist within the game is a feature. Anything that is involved in the work necessary to create the feature is a task or subtask. A collection of features is either a theme or an epic (depending on the flavor of the collection).
This shorthand exists for teams of developers to work efficiently together. My production staff does all the wrangling so that the designers, engineers, artists, animators, and QA can do more work and still get home to their families while their kids are still awake.
Features all have costs. To the project. To the company. To my team members. If I have to make a call as to whether or not this product of entertainment includes a feature that leaves someone somewhere feeling a bit left out OR whether or not my development staff has to put in some weekends (a staff that includes significant numbers of women - many of whom are mothers or even grandmothers, mind you), then I'm going to want to weigh those costs against their work/life balance...and your personal feelings on the subject aren't nearly as important to me as the well-being of my team. Sorry if that offends. Actually, no I'm not.
Building out a new female character is just as difficult as creating a new <insert ANY adjective here> character. It means new concepts, models, rigging, storyline changes/additions, script changes, VO, and cut scene changes/additions. All of these additions now live in the game code alongside everything else, which might already be getting pretty crowded depending on what platforms you're delivering to. All of these additions make the code base larger and even more complex. All of these additions create bugs and technical debt that needs to first be found through additional QA (sorry guys, you're in this weekend because of the new character cut scenes) which then result in more work from the engineers (sorry guys, you're in next week till 10 PM mandatory because of the expected bugs from the new cut scene that QA will find over the weekend).
Because it's a console title that has a firm ship date (release date for AC5 is October 28th), you want to be submitted at least 8 weeks in advance to first party approvals (Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have to approve the code you want to put on their systems before they allow you to go to manufacturing - the RTM, or Release to Manufacturer is required before you can put your disk in a box). Once you have your approval, you have a scheduled and contracted run at one of the THREE approved manufacturers allowed to take your production run within the U.S. Miss your RTM date and too ****ing bad - EA or Activision or Majesco or whoever has the time scheduled immediately after yours and they're not in a mood to negotiate with you for Q3/4 sales numbers. Once you DO get through your manufacture period, you have to get the units on the shelves at Target, BestBuy, Fry's, GameStop and anyone else you've contracted shelf space with. What? You think those end caps and front facing shelf spaces are just free and randomly put together by the store staffs? That's cute.
Bottom line to the above? AC5 is already well into alpha (feature complete) and possibly already into beta (asset complete) if they want to hit that late August/early Sept submission date they have looming ahead of them.
Best estimates I've heard from people I know at Ubi are that the additional female character was prototyped out very early but sidelined as the game itself is massive and requires an inordinate amount of work just to get the co-op working in the first place. They wanted to get back to the female character, but after costing her out, discovered it would take between 25-50 days of work to get her added in properly (that's the important word, by the way - will get back to it in a bit).
That 25-50 days isn't something you can just throw money and people at by the way. Character pipelines don't work that way. You can't start rescripting or animating new cut-scenes before you have the new rigged model. You can't rig the model till have the model. You can't build the model till have the concept art. You can't record the VO for the cut scenes and in-game play till have the script written. You have to then find the actress who will record the voice, and another actress to record the mocap.
All of this takes time. Time from someone already working late into the day/night and possibly on weekends. Because they're working on OTHER parts of the game. Because the game isn't done just because you saw a trailer at E3. Chances are the trailer wasn't done by ANYONE on the team and likely was outsourced out to a cinematics house.
The game date was likely set a year or more in advance by people setting up the contracts I mentioned above, so you may as well consider that date damn near sacred. That means to get the new character in, something had to give...or rather several somethings. Because unlike many other things in life, game development really can be zero-sum. To gain X cost of features, you have to give up X. But some execs don't think that way - they want X and don't want to give up ****. So they'll grind your team into the dirt to get there (if they're not all that worried about tech debt piling up or in keeping the team together after shipping). Other execs get it - at least to a point. They might ask for lower quality on this or that or may only "suggest" that you extend your team's hours.
However, most teams on AAA don't want to give up quality for anything. Why? Because that means lower Metacritic scores for one thing...a thing that most studio bonuses are inextricably intertwined with. Busted your *** for 2 years on a project and it's expected to bring in a 90 Metacritic so you can get your 20% IC bonus? Wait, you only got an 88% because some ******* kid who gets paid in pagecounts and free games decided you did a half-assed job on the animations for the female character compared to the male and the side-quests weren't involved enough (because your team threw those out to work on the female characters)...no bonus for you, sucker!
This whole subject makes my stomach turn to ****. I know a LOT of people on those teams. Good people. They WANT to bring in more features - female characters definitely is part of that. They hate being called sexist. They hate upper management telling them estimates for their work that they KNOW is wrong ("only a couple of days worth of animations" might as well read "**** you every other animator who can't do as well as I think I can as fast as I can on new tech").
I know very few devs who are true asshats (yeah, lots of brilliant jerks, a handful of outright *******s, most are just great people who do this for love, not money - they could stop making games and go build tax software tomorrow and double their paychecks in some cases). It's personal when I see people I know and respect called liars or sexist.
I hope the post helped you see a bit into our lives as much as it helped me to get some of this off my chest.

This may be the wrong thread...I think its better suited for the Petition thread....maybe I'll put it up there as well

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 07:39 AM
Oh yeah, reverse sexism and feminazis are a real thing. Lest anyone is in doubt:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRa3yQVtV2g

Say if the opposite happened, say men sat making jokes about a woman whose ****** was mutilated by a guy, what would you call it?

Legendz54
06-13-2014, 07:45 AM
^ Yea thats not cool, Imagine the guy watching them joke about his cut off pen&s thinking "Im gonna whip a bi*tch"

dbzk1999
06-13-2014, 08:22 AM
Not this crap AGAIN

zsuti1
06-13-2014, 08:30 AM
Please, stop whining about female protagonists. We've been good without them all along. Aveline was a female and she was a "meh" character.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 08:37 AM
Time for some educashun!

http://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/27ut97/distinct_lack_of_female_characters_due_to/ci5z8i7



This may be the wrong thread...I think its better suited for the Petition thread....maybe I'll put it up there as well

Yeah I can't speak to development costs and how hard it would be to completely overhaul the co-op just to include a female skin. I also think that's silly since we wouldn't even see it on ourselves.

My point is that from the start, there's no reason that each and every story has to be about a guy and I don't understand why they wouldn't use a female protagonist. Historical sexism is ripe for doing some cool scenes with and furthermore, it's not like it's harder to come up with a story for a girl.

I mean the precedent has already been set by Shao Jun, Aveline, and even before them, the female recruits of Brotherhood and Revelations. So trying to use the excuse of "but history! but women, but history, they weren't allowed....." because yeah, well, we already know they existed throughout history according to the universe. So why do we never PLAY as any of these female Assassins throughout history. We played a whopping total of 1. in 7 years we had a single female protagonist and she was relegated to a spin off of AC3 for a handheld.

It's one thing to write the story you want... it's another if you can only write one thing. Sure, they're different. VERY different, but they're still just writing stories about men. Why? Why is that all they WANT to write about in that case?


Oh yeah, reverse sexism and feminazis are a real thing. Lest anyone is in doubt:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRa3yQVtV2g

Those are not feminazis. They're just what I like to call "awful people."

Because make no mistake... there are plenty of awful, terrible women. Just like there are terrible men. There are ignorant and bigoted whites, ignorant and bigoted blacks, ignorant and bigoted hispanics, muslims, asians, Jews, Christians, atheists, and so on.

But the difference is that again... aside from this, really sad and awful situation of a woman going completely crazy and doing what she said... women get beaten and killed a whole lot more often. It's awful. I'm in no way excusing their reactions or what did the girl in the audience say? "That'll teach him?" THAT will teach him? Usually "teaching a lesson" when someone "screws up" implies a temporary punishment and/or an explanation and discussion of what was bad or wrong. This is permanent. So yeah... truly awful women exist.

But there are also women who think women shouldn't be allowed to vote as well but I wouldn't say that most women think that way.

But okay.. let's say she those ARE feminazis. If that's the case then, then there is no WAY that most of the people discussing women and inequality that are labeled as "feminazis" are even remotely, REMOTELY similar to women laughing at the situation like above.

The woman who did that is obviously unstable and crazy. You'd be have to insane yourself to applaud that or even find it funny.

As for reverse sexism (and not feminazi), again... reverse sexism would only exist if someone went back in time and subjugated men and dictated what a "proper man" should act like and give stict and rigid rules. The wife is given sway with having affairs and Misteresses (not mistresses) while a man having multiple partners is considered a harlot. The men are told that they should be seen and not heard, they are given strict duties to perform and are not allowed to attend higher education. Meanwhile, women continue to educate themselves and during this, make sure that it is virtually impossible for men to do what they want. During a wedding, a man is considered property and the man's family must give gifts such as property to the woman. the woman would control all assets of her own as well as her husband's. When democracy finally starts to take hold, the women in support of freedom and the ability to vote make sure to specify that all "women are created equal" and refuse to let men participate in this newfound freedom. Then when men want to vote, women laugh at them and mock their desires. After centuries and centuries and centuries of this, eventually men are granted the right to vote. however, schools are still resistant to letting men join, and they're still not allowed to do the same jobs as women. When certain scientific discoveries are made by men, women take the idea and steal the spotlight, not once acknowledging the help that male scientists gave. And this goes on and on and on until modern day where men make less than women for equal work, are shown less than women in media, and their reproductive rights are constantly discussed by women.

Then, and only then, would such a thing as "reverse sexism" exist because women would have the power to enforce their bigoted policies because they made it impossibly difficult for men to achieve the same success.

Same thing for reverse racism.


Please, stop whining about female protagonists. We've been good without them all along. Aveline was a female and she was a "meh" character.

And so was Connor to a LOT of people. Maybe we should also drop male characters and play as ethereal beings with no gender who have transcended a physical form and are just thought itself. Because clearly one bad character means we should never have another character of that type again... OH WAIT...

http://s3.gamefreaks.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/edward_kenway_a_pirate_trained_by_assassins_by_oro chimaruxdd-d6f9uni11.jpg

But I thought we should just give up after a "meh" character... Double standards much?

(fyi Connor fans, I like Connor but a lot of people thought he was bland or lame so I'm using him as an example)

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 08:44 AM
I never said all feminists are feminazis, to be sure. Just said that there are some out there who are like that.

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 08:48 AM
wow you need to look sexism and racism up in a dictionary, wait let me help.

sex∑ism

noun \ˈsek-ˌsi-zəm\ : unfair treatment of people because of their sex.

rac∑ism

noun \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\ : poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race.



Everyone is both capable of sexism and racism, your a fool if you think otherwise. If we went by you definition then if I told a sexist joke about a woman then I'd be sexist, but a woman can tell a sexist joke about a man and its totally cool, everyone should tell her how totally in the right she is.


Edward was not an awful character either, AC4 was the best AC game since AC2 and it had everything to do with Edward.

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 08:59 AM
Anyway, I agree with the general sentiment of this thread, a female protag will be nice to have something different for a change, if nothing else. But I'd not hold a gun to their heads or stop buying the games if they decide to go the generic male dude again. I guess it matters more to me whether he is interesting than whether he has boobs or what his skin colour is. In same vein, when I think of upcoming games, new games; the thing I get most excited about is new gameplay mechanics, new locations, new characters, not awesome female protags.. probably!

It also kinda grates me when I see people (not on this forum admittedly) immediately going "oh another white male! How boring and generic!" when they first saw the Unity leaks. As if, for example a black female is automatically exciting and a white male is automatically boring. people don't wait to actually check out facts it seems. games can be used to propagate social messages sure. But that sort ain't happening by petitioning against them and these childish cusading.

travilanche
06-13-2014, 09:17 AM
This is basically affirmative action for video game characters, which is just ridiculous.

Video games are art.. Like books or movies. Would you petition Stephen King to write a romance novel just because you like his writing but are tired of horror?

The people who create the stories for these games are artists. It is their creation and as such they can do what you want. If you don't like it then don't play it.

And its not that easy for artists to just bend to peoples request. They come up with a story, and the sex of the protagonist doesn't enter into their thinking. If they came up with a story for a female protagonist, then that is the game they would make. But forcing them to male such a game could seriously diminish the quality of the story. By forcing them to write something just for the sake of satisfying an angry mobs political agenda they could come up with something seriously sub-par.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 09:24 AM
wow you need to look sexism and racism up in a dictionary, wait let me help.

sex∑ism

noun \ˈsek-ˌsi-zəm\ : unfair treatment of people because of their sex.

rac∑ism

noun \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\ : poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race.



Everyone is both capable of sexism and racism, your a fool if you think otherwise. If we went by you definition then if I told a sexist joke about a woman then I'd be sexist, but a woman can tell a sexist joke about a man and its totally cool, everyone should tell her how totally in the right she is.

Making a joke at someone's expense is not unfair. We make jokes about people ALL the time. We HAVE jokes about men. Such as men refusing to read maps...that's a stereotype for men. But wanna know what the unfair treatment is? It's creating laws that are intentionally designed to not give them the same rights (i.e. the pay gap between women and men). THAT's the unfair treatment. Women are way more likely to be the victims of spousal abuse than men as well.

We're quick to ask what a woman was wearing after a rape or say "oh she probably just wants money" by insinuating that she's lying about the ordeal rather than looking at the rapist and asking why he ever thought it was okay.

So even with horrifying tales of women harming men, the truth is... society has made it easier for men to get jobs, to earn more, to DO more, to be judged less harshly, and men attack and murder women far more often.


Anyway, I agree with the general sentiment of this thread, a female protag will be nice to have something different for a change, if nothing else. But I'd not hold a gun to their heads or stop buying the games if they decide to go the generic male dude again. I guess it matters more to me whether he is interesting than whether he has boobs or what his skin colour is. In same vein, when I think of upcoming games, new games; the thing I get most excited about is new gameplay mechanics, new locations, new characters, not awesome female protags.. probably!

It also kinda grates me when I see people (not on this forum admittedly) immediately going "oh another white male! How boring and generic!" when they first saw the Unity leaks. As if, for example a black female is automatically exciting and a white male is automatically boring. people don't wait to actually check out facts it seems. games can be used to propagate social messages sure. But that sort ain't happening by petitioning against them and these childish cusading.

I think it's just boring because it's the same thing. Not that their character or story is boring but, rather, the same gender and race is boring.

haha I wouldn't hold a gun to their heads. I'm like Batman. I don't like guns. But I would stop buying it because I'm just tired of playing as a dude. Also... I don't criticize Ubisoft on it's gender decisions. The first game was a Syrian assassin in the middle east, the second was Italian, the third was half native/half english, one WAS a female AND black/french (handheld but still, it is NICE which is why it's a shame there isn't more of it), one was Nigerian...Desmond was never depicted as white but rather ethnic, like mixed race.

The reason why I created this wasn't to come across as overly hostile toward Ubisoft. I went out of my way to be civil and not be like "wow ubisoft, you ******* suck, why the **** do you hate women, why the **** is ***** when *** could ****** be ******* *** **** ****** ***** ***** ******** ***** mutton chops wearing beagle pr**ks!!!!"

Because Ubisoft has displayed a level of diversity among their AC series that is commendable and rarely seen in games or media in general. How many of the white, generic heroes exist? Every shooter ever has it (along with a token black or minority character or two as an unplayable character) and numerous other games. I posted a video that showed a collection of every main character shown at this E3 and they were ALL white, generic, dudes. AC gets a pass because of the racial diversity they've had in past installments and that's why I created this. Because if one developer has the ability to diversify their games MORE...it's Ubisoft. Female Assassins already exist throughout time according to the games, they had a spin off featuring a woman, they've had a series with protagonists who have been of different races than the typical white hero we see in movies and games often.

Hell, stories like Hunger Games and Divergent (regardless of whether you LIKE those particular stories... Hunger Games is an interesting if not entirely unique concept but the writing is bad. But Katniss is a pretty cool, female hero and they don't even bring up her gender TOO MUCH. It's there but it's not something that defines how she acts exactly. Like, yeah she's a girl and everyone knows that but no one's ever really like "oh wow, a girl who can fight!" It actually bugs me when a show or something has a woman do some martial arts and take down like a mugger and then the (likely male hero or friend) is like "whoa, how'd you know that?" As if it's some big shock that a woman could comprehend fighting moves. Like it's little stuff like that where it's like oh come on! I know so many girls who could kick a bunch of guys' a s ses. I would never be taken aback by a girl doing so. Now, someone might say "it's not that he's surprised because she's a girl but because he never knew she could do that" but you don't hear that kind of surprise when a man takes on a mugger (uuuusually)

Anyway, how is what I'm doing a childish crusade? I just don't want to give them money and was expressing why not to people on the forums. It'd be childish if I was rude about it or tried to make them change a game that's nearly finished. Unless you're talking about people who want a female avatar in which case, I can understand that since it's not even really a girl anyway. It'd be an empty shell that you'd only see OTHERS in, never yourself.


This is basically affirmative action for video game characters, which is just ridiculous.

Video games are art.. Like books or movies. Would you petition Stephen King to write a romance novel just because you like his writing but are tired of horror?

That is not an apt comparison at all. I'm not asking Ubisoft to change the genre of Assassin's Creed or asking them to change the way it plays. I'm asking them to include more females. They don't have to but they probably should. And I might ask Stephen King to include more women if I felt they were lacking. I haven't read all of his books so I don't know how he is when it comes to that.


The people who create the stories for these games are artists. It is their creation and as such they can do what you want. If you don't like it then don't play it.

You DID see the part where I said I'd stop buying AC if the next game after Unity doesn't feature a female protagonist, right?


And its not that easy for artists to just bend to peoples request. They come up with a story, and the sex of the protagonist doesn't enter into their thinking. If they came up with a story for a female protagonist, then that is the game they would make. But forcing them to male such a game could seriously diminish the quality of the story. By forcing them to write something just for the sake of satisfying an angry mobs political agenda they could come up with something seriously sub-par.


Now wait a second... you said the sex doesn't enter into their thinking. If that's the case... it'd be easy for them to have a character be a female INSTEAD of male. But if it' difficult to switch the gender entirely, then gender must come into their heads. However... if the only gender that only EVER pops into their heads is male... I'd have to wonder why they keep wanting to write stories about male Assassins.

In fact, currently, Arno's backstory sounds roughly similar to Ezio's or Connor's or sh*t, Batman's. Parent or parents/family being killed leading to a quest for justice/vengeance. That's nothing new. that's not to say his motivations will be identical or his goals the same... but c'mon. Also he seeks out the Assassins? Similar to Connor...

Like, Arno's backstory would have worked for a female too and then at least it'd be different because it's a girl avenging her father or family as opposed to the son.

Besides, I don't think Ubisoft should be bending to anyone's will. They should be thrilled at the prospects of bringing a female Assassin to their fans, it'd be a change of pace, it'd be interesting, they could touch on issues of sexism if they wanted to or just not touch on it all that much... I can imagine Ubisoft saying something like "we'd love to bring a female Assassin to a major console release but we want to make sure we get it right." This sounds really thoughtful and pro-women like, Ubisoft doesn't want to screw it up but it's not... they could write a story that could pretty much work for either gender, male or female, Aveline OR Connor... and then feature the female Assassin in that game. That's what Alien did and that's AWESOME. Again... a woman's story doesn't HAVE to be different from what a man's story would be. It can be, and that's okay and can be cool (like I said, getting real about issues like the treatment of women throughout history would be interesting) but it doesn't HAVE to. A story about an awesome female Jedi wouldn't need to be different than one written about Obi-Wan.

Kagurra
06-13-2014, 09:31 AM
I don't get why having a female protag is "progressive", especially if you're only doing it for the sake of being "progressive".

If you don't wanna buy a game just because the protag has a gender you don't want it to have, well that's all on you, but it's pretty silly IMO. Especially if it's a fantastic game, as Unity looks to be.

killzab
06-13-2014, 09:44 AM
These boards are like a broken record

AherasSTRG
06-13-2014, 09:53 AM
Whatever Darby says.

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 09:53 AM
But wanna know what the unfair treatment is? It's creating laws that are intentionally designed to not give them the same rights (i.e. the pay gap between women and men). THAT's the unfair treatment. Women are way more likely to be the victims of spousal abuse than men as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3PgH86OyEM

silvermercy
06-13-2014, 10:03 AM
Personally I really don't care but I'd have to pass. They can make a great game with female protagonists take Tomb Raider for example. Only AC tried a female lead with Liberation. And she is disliked almost as much as Conner. There is literally nothing to her character. On top of that as a guy I felt rather weird playing as a woman. It just didn't feel right to me. I didn't feel as immersed or relate as well as I did to male protagonists.

On top of that it's a market that's highly male dominated.

Bloody hell! I couldn't get past this sentence. I posted on another thread on how, me, as a female, I REALLY don't care about AC having a female protagonist (in fact I prefer male ones) but hooooly moly! All this above reasoning for not having a female protagonist is just plain wrong!!!

1. It's Connor, not Conner.
2. Aveline was not that disliked as you make it out to be. (Neither was Connor actually). Sure, she needed more character development (but that was a Vita game after all). And just because ONE female character was "disliked", is that supposed to be a precedent for not having a female protagonist ever again? *mind blown*
3. Are you really sure the game market is male dominated? Because it's not. Females make up around half of gaming population. See official stats: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124870-ESA-Study-Finds-Women-Make-Up-Nearly-Half-of-Gamer-Population
4. So you can't relate to a female protagonist? So how do you think us females feel then when we play male protagonists? Or how can we relate when we do? wow! All this reasoning for not having a female protagonist is just so wrong, I don't know where to begin.

My own reasoning for not caring about having a female protagonist (even though I'm female) is because I don't like shoe-horning, like having a female for the sake of it. The character should be well-developed and fir with the story. And that is all.

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 10:06 AM
Yes because the law never favours women.

Jexx21
06-13-2014, 10:15 AM
If I made the law it would be:

1. screw you i'm world leader gimme your money

NekoKera
06-13-2014, 10:17 AM
What Assassinís Creed truly needs is a feline assassin. With all the new adjustments in Unity, the possibilities of meeting fan expectations and listening could potentially culminate into an amazing experience of parkour, acrobatics, stealth, and cat vision. Now I understand that a cat assassin skin could be implemented very last minute to Unity as a multiplayer skin but I believe what would be best is to actually have a cat as the main protagonist. With over 203 million house cats in the top ten countries alone, cats make a large portion of the pet population in the world and who knows just how many are avid gamers themselves. The trend thus far for all known Assassinís Creed titles are as follows: 6 Humans and 0 Cats. This statistic is alarming and shows that by paying attention to what the fans want, Ubisoft can deliver a well-received title which meets the expectations of not only cats and cat guardians but all fans alike as they implement various features such as grooming missions, rodent extermination, stalking Templars, and avoiding guard dogs. So although it may be too late to make any changes to Unity, even though you could replace a few words such as he to kitty and Arno to Mr. (or Mrs.) Whiskers, what is likely expected is to make the next Assassinís Creed protagonist a cat, period.

In all human seriousness now, I don't mind the idea of a female Assassin as the protagonist but I feel that it cannot be something that is tacked on and should have actually meaning and gameplay that revolve around that particular Assassin from the way she moves to the set of abilities and customization that can be implemented. Rather than focusing solely on a title to portray more femininity, I would rather see a sort of approach of having a main character but other characters that can be controlled or setup to aid or even control the outcome of particular missions with their own backgrounds and stories that can be individually explored. For example, say Arno is the focus of the story but also have 3-4 friends of the Brotherhood which have their own backgrounds that can be explored and their characters taken control over to flesh out specific missions across the city that relate to them and evolve upon their already expanding story as they can bump heads with the other Assassin's throughout the missions (maybe something like an AC Unity and GTA V hybrid if you will). Imagine the impact of having one of these characters die on a mission or having a love interest between two of the Assassins, etc. I get the idea that some people really want a female as the lead, but from what I've seen from the AC series, it seems like something that always gets pushed aside for smaller projects like Liberation, Embers, or a background call in your recruits for Brotherhood. It could be that these smaller projects can be used as gauging how gamers and fans react so some conclusions may be drawn about having a main female role. So I don't mind whatever direction Ubisoft wants to take with main protagonist's sex, ethnicity, race, etc. but what I do want is too feel immersed with that character and not just thinking this is weird or staring at pixel booty all day if you get my meaning.

oliacr
06-13-2014, 10:22 AM
A simple one, let us choose. I don't care though.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 10:24 AM
I don't get why having a female protag is "progressive", especially if you're only doing it for the sake of being "progressive".

If you don't wanna buy a game just because the protag has a gender you don't want it to have, well that's all on you, but it's pretty silly IMO. Especially if it's a fantastic game, as Unity looks to be.

I don't want Ubisoft to do it for the sake of being progressive because then they're not being progressive. Not really. They should just naturally do it if they're truly progressive. But let's just stop and assume they don't include females. Ever. Again. Just guys. Why would I want to give them my money when they're obviously not progressive? That'd be like me donating to a Republican event. I don't want to give a group with issues and ideas I disagree with my money. I don't eat at Chik-fil-a for a reason.

I'm not saying Ubisoft is backwards thinking or conservative or will never have a female protagonist but what you said...about assing a woman for the sake of being progressive. It's sad that we still consider having a female as "progressive" or including a woman for "progressive's sake" is bad.

The whole problem is that we still consider it unusual. We may try and point to Tomb Raider or Hunger Games and say "SEE????" but then we turn around and say that adding a female to be progressive would be bad. If women were represented about the same as men, then it wouldn't progressive to feature a female character now would it? And changing a character and making them female during production would just be a decision rather than one based on the idea of being PC for the sake of being PC.... because it would be NORMAL for women to be protagonists and heroes.

Just as you find it silly to not buy a game based on something like gender, I find it silly to be aloof of this and not care OR try and deflect the debate/argument with buzzword that don't mean anything such as white knight or feminazis. Now THAT is silly.

Oh darn! I forgot to write in a post when replying to someone (Kagurra, this isn't towards you)

But to one of the last people saying it's their "artistic vision" to write whatever they want with whatever gender they want (as an artist who comes from a family of artists, brother's a writer, uncle's a guitarist, cousins are actors, etc.) I can tell you that's B.S.

Because the KKK are a terrible group. Just awful. Completely backwards ideology and horrible views on minorities like blacks. But they were the HEROES in the Birth of a Nation and people prtested it because HOLY SH*T THE KKK WERE SHOWN AS FREAKING HEROES! Now, it wasn't looked on as bad by many others than black people because, well, America was still super racist then. Super, super racist because HOLY SH*T HEROIC KKK. So anyway, if a film starred the KKK TODAY and they were shown to be heroic -- you're dang right that I would tear down the creators' "artistic vision" and promptly tell them what a despicable piece of trash they are. And I would tell whatever company was going to produce it to "uh...not do that" because wow, I shouldn't even need to tell them it's wrong.

Now that's not saying that a lack of women is akin to making a modern day Birth of a Nation but artistic vision only goes so far. As soon as you start drawing depictions of a school shooting...maybe someone impedes that artistic vision a bit. If it seems a little weird that you're not including women as primary heroes maybe you should take a step back and, as an artist, go "why DON'T we make a female protag?" As an artist... I can tell you that, while it's frustrating, something new and something you've never really done before is amazing. It's a challenge... for me? That's perspective. I need to get way better when it comes to perspective and I'm up to the challenge and when I do it, that;ll be awesome. So if they've done 7 games with male heroes.. wouldn't be excited for them as artists to do something new?

Again... this is a problem that persists in ALL media, not just games.

Seriously... take a look at a typical Justice League lineup.

Superman: white male
Batman: white male
Wonder Woman: Amazonian (but usually basically white) female
Flash: white male
Martian Manhunter: green male
Green Lantern: Depends but it's usually Hal Jordan who is a white male
Hawkman: white male

JLU decided to diversify the cast a bit by having the GL be John Stewart (black male) and replace Hawkman with Hawkgirl.

Or what about Marvel's movies/characters and the primary heroes in them?

Iron Man: white male
Captain America: white male
The Incredible Hulk: white/green rage monster male
Thor: white male
Avengers: one female on the team, one female for SHIELD

Like...that doesnt make Avengers bad or any of those films or characters bad. They're fine. But like, why didn't Black widow get her own film? I know Hawkeye didn't either but she is literally the only girl on the team.

I can go on an on and list each and every movie or game I can think of where women are barely represented or not even represented at all because there's a LOT.

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 10:29 AM
You know Hollywood has tried multiple times to do Heroine movies, but no one went to see them, do you what that told Hollywood, that no one wanted them, thats why they aren't being made, it is not a conspiracy against women.

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 10:34 AM
The reason most of the comicbook heroes are white males because they are made by white males

WHITEMALECEPTION

While I despise that fact, its just what it is. People create people similar to their own. If only those whining about it spent their time creating something unique instead of doing useless crusades on tumblr.. who knows?

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 10:37 AM
If only those whining about it spent their time creating something unique instead of doing useless crusades on tumblr.. who knows?

This so much, if you want more females in games then YOU make a game, don't expect anyone to do it for you.

adventurewomen
06-13-2014, 10:42 AM
Honestly couldn't care less about the gender of the main assassin in each game.. it's not the reason why I play the games, the story and game that brings in most of the fan base.

Additionally Ubisoft are already in the production stages for the next AC titles.

Also is the OP a female?? You're putting so much energy into this, one can assume so..

This subject is tired, it's like asking Io - Interactive for a Female Agent 47.

savill81
06-13-2014, 10:44 AM
A lot of people on here are being very unfair on Ubisoft, they are right it would take them too long to just add a female assassin, its more than just a new skin and character model they would have to create, they would have to make a whole new cooking and cleaning simulator as well, because when she was done killing people, she would still need to come home, clean up, wash the clothes (it must have been murder on those female assassns to remove the blood from their clothes before the invention of vanish) cook the dinner, clean up after dinner, then rub her husbands feet, put the kids to bed, a woman's work is never done.
Bloody woman want everything the man has got, they have even got the she-pee now so they can wee wee standing up.

silvermercy
06-13-2014, 10:45 AM
You know Hollywood has tried multiple times to do Heroine movies, but no one went to see them, do you what that told Hollywood, that no one wanted them, thats why they aren't being made, it is not a conspiracy against women.
So nobody went to see the Hunger Games... or Terminator 2 (Sarah Connor was the actual protagonist in the sequel, not the Terminators).
Or Kill Bill... Or Resident Evil 1.

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 10:46 AM
Maybe not, but nobody indeed wanted to see the two TR movies. Those were legitimately crap and you can't tell me otherwise!

Mr_Shade
06-13-2014, 10:50 AM
Maybe not, but nobody indeed wanted to see the two TR movies. Those were legitimately crap and you can't tell me otherwise!

I liked them..

[walks away]

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 10:51 AM
The reason most of the comicbook heroes are white males because they are made by white males

WHITEMALECEPTION

While I despise that fact, its just what it is. People create people similar to their own. If only those whining about it spent their time creating something unique instead of doing useless crusades on tumblr.. who knows?

Yup. And that's why Wonder Woman was also constantly strapped to phallic items. Every. Single. Issue.

Well then hopefully my comic can be made about a female protagonist without companies stonewalling my brother and I and trying to force us to sexy her up. Because I HAVE created something unique but if I can't get it published because she's not sexy enough. Then that doesn't help.

In fact, Ubisoft the DEVELOPERS very well might have tried from time to time to have a female protag but Ubisoft the EXECS may have said no. Because it doesn't sell. Which we know is B.S. because AC is a cash cow...having a woman in the game wouldnt suddenly make them lose money...they're far too entrenched now. Brand recognition.

To the person who said that people didn't go see them... oh please. Elektra? Yeah. That just wasn't a good movie. It had nothing to do with her being female. Again, if a male hero has a bad film, oh well, they still make male superhero films. Case in point: Green Lantern. That sh*tstorm literally had a diarrhea monster as the final villain which just sums up how unintentionally awful it was. And it wasn't an ACTUAL poop monster like in Dogma... it just looked like it because the CGI was awful.

And yet male superhero films didn't just CEASE to exist because of that film. It's because people are resistant to change. Always are. So when a film with a female superhero is rushed out, people don't go see it partially because they're maybe not used to it and also because the film just sucks. But then the execs go "ABORT THE MISSION!" and go "well it had a female and flopped so now we just wont make female superhero films anymore."

waynedavies89
06-13-2014, 10:53 AM
So nobody went to see the Hunger Games... or Terminator 2 (Sarah Connor was the actual protagonist in the sequel, not the Terminators).
Or Kill Bill... Or Resident Evil 1.

You can add the likes of Gravity in there as well, or go back to the Alien. There are hundreds of films, full of strong, competent and proactive leads.

So is there's a need to play the " oh Hollywood! " card in the debate? No

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 10:53 AM
So nobody went to see the Hunger Games... or Terminator 2 (Sarah Connor was the actual protagonist in the sequel, not the Terminators).
Or Kill Bill...

People went to Terminator 2 because of Schwarzenegger not because of Linda Hamilton and the Hunger Games is the exception to the rule. You only need to look at past Heroine movies, take for example.

Supergirl
Tomb Raider
Elektra
Cat Woman

I went to see them, (well not Supergirl) but I was on my lonesome, you want to blame someone for the lack of Heroine films blame movie going audience.


You can add the likes of Gravity in there as well, or go back to the Alien. there are hundreds of films,

Strong, competent and proactive leads, so is there's a need to play the " oh Hollywood! " card in the debate?
again exceptions to the rule, although I will admit things seem to be changing.

waynedavies89
06-13-2014, 10:57 AM
People went to Terminator 2 because of Schwarzenegger not because of Linda Hamilton and the Hunger Games is the exception to the rule. You only need to look at past Heroine movies, take for example.

Supergirl
Tomb Raider
Elektra
Cat Woman

I went to see them, (well not Supergirl) but I was on my lonesome, you want to blame someone for the lack of Heroine films blame movie going audience.


again exceptions to the rule, although I will admit things seem to be changing.

For every good or bad film that plays on the poor stereotypes you can easily find film 6 or 7 that ***** slaps the " exception to the rule "

Mr_Shade
06-13-2014, 10:59 AM
Personal comment time..

I can understand some of the frustration - however - some of the comments surrounding this current 'situation' are a little unfair aimed at Ubisoft..

They have been progressive in other franchises - and some have very well rounded and strong female leads..

I think the we just have to make suggestions and hope that this franchise goes in a direction where it is possible to change peoples expectations.


Ubisoft is very willing to challenge opinions and views on certain things in other games - Far Cry 4 as a recent example - the First AC game was a 'risky' game due to Altair being a non white none english speaking protagonist [yeah we know he has an US accent, but shush, you know what I mean] - so as a company, they do not shy away from things other companies would.

Who knows what the future holds for AC - whatever it is, I'm 110% sure recent events have not gone unnoticed by the team - however as already said - it would be better for them to voluntarily offer a new direction - than be forced..

silvermercy
06-13-2014, 11:00 AM
People went to Terminator 2 because of Schwarzenegger not because of Linda Hamilton and the Hunger Games is the exception to the rule. You only need to look at past Heroine movies, take for example.

Supergirl
Tomb Raider
Elektra
Cat Woman

I went to see them, (well not Supergirl) but I was on my lonesome, you want to blame someone for the lack of Heroine films blame movie going audience.

I didn't like the Tomb Raider films either (actually hated them) or even these other films so much. But that's because they were crap MOVIES. Not because they had female heroines.

OK, let's leave Terminator 2, out. When the plot is good in an action film (Kill Bill, Hunger Games etc) then the audience obviously has no problem going to the theater and making them a massive success.

So, basically, maybe it comes down to the action heroines being given crap plots most of the time because the success of the movie does not lie within the fact that the main protagonist is female.

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 11:00 AM
For every good or bad film that plays on the poor stereotypes you can easily find film 6 or 7 that ***** slaps the " exception to the rule "

No one new those movies where bad before they came out. No one went to see them because they had women leads.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 11:01 AM
Honestly couldn't care less about the gender of the main assassin in each game.. it's not the reason why I play the games, the story and game that brings in most of the fan base.

Additionally Ubisoft are already in the production stages for the next AC titles.

Also is the OP a female?? You're putting so much energy into this, one can assume so..

This subject is tired, it's like asking Io - Interactive for a Female Agent 47.

I'm a male. Ask UbiZack. He and a few select members who frequent the Splinter Cell forums met me in real life at the Uplay Lounge in 2013. Or you can check my instagram, my profile picture is of me and I have a few random selfies. I don't do selfies typically because why. I don't get people who post selfies non-stop. Then again, I don't understand people who always instagram their food either. I will on occasion but EVERY MEAL? Or sometimes multiple times throughout dinner? Sheesh.

Anyway. Went on a bit of an instangent. I also like bad puns.

Anywho... I don't think this is the same as calling for a female Agent 47. 47 is a specific character. I'm not asking them to change an existing character to be female. I'm asking them just to have a few more females from time to time.

Hey, remember that WWII stealth game a while back where you played as a female character based on a real life female spy? Yeah.... that game didn't do well. Not because it was a female but because it was a mediocre stealth game and even though it featured a female... I recall something about how you often see her in like...underwear so something? I could be wrong... but just... yeah. That's no reason to "give up" on having females in games because there was a bad game that happened to have a female in it. <-- That's more in hand with the talk about people not going to see films with female heroes.


So nobody went to see the Hunger Games... or Terminator 2 (Sarah Connor was the actual protagonist in the sequel, not the Terminators).
Or Kill Bill... Or Resident Evil 1.

Right?


Maybe not, but nobody indeed wanted to see the two TR movies. Those were legitimately crap and you can't tell me otherwise!

Right but a tomb Raider movie a bit more like the newer games could actually be pretty cool.

silvermercy
06-13-2014, 11:02 AM
No one new those movies where bad before they came out. No one went to see them because they had women leads.
The reviews are out from the very start! And even before release. Also: Trailers...

Plus, word of mouth is also powerful, no?

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 11:05 AM
Someone has to see it before word of mouth. I swear I seen three of those films at the movies, I was alone in the cinema.

Sucker Punch is another one, terrible movie but no one went to see it, and it had an all female cast. If I was to think about it I could get a dozen more movies.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 11:05 AM
Personal comment time..

I can understand some of the frustration - however - some of the comments surrounding this current 'situation' are a little unfair aimed at Ubisoft..

They have been progressive in other franchises - and some have very well rounded and strong female leads..

I think the we just have to make suggestions and hope that this franchise goes in a direction where it is possible to change peoples expectations.


Ubisoft is very willing to challenge opinions and views on certain things in other games - Far Cry 4 as a recent example - the First AC game was a 'risky' game due to Altair being a non white none english speaking protagonist [yeah we know he has an US accent, but shush, you know what I mean] - so as a company, they do not shy away from things other companies would.

Who knows what the future holds for AC - whatever it is, I'm 110% sure recent events have not gone unnoticed by the team - however as already said - it would be better for them to voluntarily offer a new direction - than be forced..

Yes and that;'s why I hope I didn't come off as overly hostile. If any company can not only make a female hero in a major title of one of their biggest franchise but also make it sell like crazy -- it's Ubisoft. While I may not like how certain series have changed... Ubisoft pretty regularly wows me with games. E3 2012 had Watch_Dogs which is great, E3 2013 revealed the Division which looks fun as knobs, and this E3 revealed Rainbow Six Siege with a cool demo of multiplayer which legitimately looked fun.

silvermercy
06-13-2014, 11:06 AM
Someone has to see it before word of mouth.
Like whom? The reviewers in magazines and newspapers? Seriously, you're not making sense.

Mr_Shade
06-13-2014, 11:07 AM
Right but a tomb Raider movie a bit more like the newer games could actually be pretty cool.

Agreed - as long as they don't make her grunt so much.. ;)


It's telling that I twigged the new trailer for the next game - was tomb raider - by the sound of her banging against the cliff and letting out that 'grunt'


But have to admit - the reboot of the franchise - has taken a character who was essentially 'eye candy' for many - and made a more realistic rounded person out of it..


A film of those adventures - would be amazing..



Also the new Alien game.. would make a great movie..

Yes and that;'s why I hope I didn't come off as overly hostile. If any company can not only make a female hero in a major title of one of their biggest franchise but also make it sell like crazy -- it's Ubisoft. While I may not like how certain series have changed... Ubisoft pretty regularly wows me with games. E3 2012 had Watch_Dogs which is great, E3 2013 revealed the Division which looks fun as knobs, and this E3 revealed Rainbow Six Siege with a cool demo of multiplayer which legitimately looked fun.


Nope - I'm sure they are well aware of the heightened feelings around this issue - due to recent events, which tbh - I won't comment on.


However - They have used a female lead already in AC - as you know and Beyond Good & Evil - which has a massive following, even today ;)

So, they have done it in the past - however - it's IF they can make a female lead 'fit' the games..


Much like Unity has changed MP - for Co-Op [which makes more sense in the game due to the subtext] - 'shoehorning' a female lead into a game that was not written from the ground up - might come off as a simple 'fan service' - and would come under just as much negative press.

I'm sure if they do it, it will be done with as much care and attention as all of their titles..

When, is a different matter - since games are written years in advance etc.

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 11:09 AM
Like whom? The reviewers in magazines and newspapers? Seriously, you're not making sense.
Anyone, people.

silvermercy
06-13-2014, 11:09 AM
Anyone, people.

http://www.indiewire.com/article/heroines-of-cinema-the-biggest-female-led-box-office-hits-of-the-21st-century
http://www.forbes.com/sites/melissasilverstein/2013/11/21/a-female-revolution-at-the-box-office/

adventurewomen
06-13-2014, 11:14 AM
I'm a male. Ask UbiZack. He and a few select members who frequent the Splinter Cell forums met me in real life at the Uplay Lounge in 2013. Or you can check my instagram, my profile picture is of me and I have a few random selfies. I don't do selfies typically because why. I don't get people who post selfies non-stop. Then again, I don't understand people who always instagram their food either. I will on occasion but EVERY MEAL? Or sometimes multiple times throughout dinner? Sheesh.

Anyway. Went on a bit of an instangent. I also like bad puns.
I see, it's just interesting to see a guy to have an issue with this, when usually its females who have this issue with representation. Anyway I'm sure you're a decent guy and you obviously have great respect for women. It's humbling to know there are men like you who respect women greatly.


Anywho... I don't think this is the same as calling for a female Agent 47. 47 is a specific character. I'm not asking them to change an existing character to be female. I'm asking them just to have a few more females from time to time.
I was just saying that as an example. Let me just explain that Ubi have already planned story, character etc.. for the next few AC titles so it would cost them millions of dollars to drop those plans. It's a business they have to think of it that way, and create what sells that ultimately makes them the most money.


Hey, remember that WWII stealth game a while back where you played as a female character based on a real life female spy? Yeah.... that game didn't do well. Not because it was a female but because it was a mediocre stealth game and even though it featured a female... I recall something about how you often see her in like...underwear so something? I could be wrong... but just... yeah. That's no reason to "give up" on having females in games because there was a bad game that happened to have a female in it. <-- That's more in hand with the talk about people not going to see films with female heroes.
Yeah I remember that game, and nice example. :)

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 11:16 AM
http://www.indiewire.com/article/heroines-of-cinema-the-biggest-female-led-box-office-hits-of-the-21st-century
http://www.forbes.com/sites/melissasilverstein/2013/11/21/a-female-revolution-at-the-box-office/
I don't see anything there that refutes what I have stated bar some exceptions movie going audiences will not go to see Heroine movies, it seems to be changing which is a good thing, but it doesn't change what came before, and thats why Hollywood is apprehensive about investing money in Heroine movies.

If Wonder Woman came out tomorrow and it was awesome and people went in there droves to see it, you can bet there would be plans for a trilogy the next day, movies is a business after all.

silvermercy
06-13-2014, 11:18 AM
I don't see anything there that refutes what I have stated bar some exceptions movie going audiences will not go to see Heroine movies, it seems to be changing which is a good thing, but it doesn't change what came before.
I really don't see how these articles state that audience would not love a female heroine and that it would not be a massive success!? Quite the opposite?

Uh, never mind. I must go back to work now.

waynedavies89
06-13-2014, 11:22 AM
In the end, it's a matter of wait and see what the series brings in the future

There wasn't a big drama about a female assassin in the run up to E3, when we already knew Arno was the lead in Unity.
The other Assassins in Unity are just to represent you on the other players screen. Even if they did make a female avatar and go through all the work, you wouldn't play as them since you all are Arno in your perspective, just like Watch Dogs.

And as Shades said, this whole issue has NOT gone unnoticed, lets just see guys!

Mr_Shade
06-13-2014, 11:25 AM
And as Shades said, this whole issue has NOT gone unnoticed, lets just see guys!

I just hope that it does not end up with other publishers rushing games out with female leads - 'hay look guys, we love da females' - and the games are nothing short of being cash cows..

waynedavies89
06-13-2014, 11:28 AM
I just hope that it does not end up with other publishers rushing games out with female leads - 'hay look guys, we love da females' - and the games are nothing short of being cash cows..

A few will most certainly reevaluate their main character in the pre-production stage, but i don't think any fallout would be to bad. This song and dance has been going on for years already in CoD.

Farlander1991
06-13-2014, 11:29 AM
It's a complicated topic.

Here's the thing, it's true that to a big extent 'white male' is somewhat of a default in general when it comes to main game characters (at least perceived one, there's quite a lot of female protagonists but I don't think it's even). It's true that there is an issue of diversity among other things. But, adding diversity just for diversity's sake in a narrative-based game is as bad, if not worse, as not having said diversity. Because it then transforms into a variable that doesn't matter. Male on/off switch. Also, a lot of 'diversity' topics take each diversity issue separately from each other. Sexuality, gender, age, fitness, race, culture, etc. - those all are important things that combined make us who we are (among many other things), that is and undeniable part of us (yes, it matters that I'm a male, I myself and my life wouldn't have been the same if I wasn't, but that's not my defining feature) and yet we don't really talk about this combination when discussing diversity. We need more trans-gays, we need more females, we need more blacks, etc... that's all well-intended and I agree that the issue with diversity has to be fixed, but the issue when discussed like that becomes very binary. Not to mention that, as I said, the REASON behind the character must not be 'we need a female' (or at the very least, not JUST that).

I don't want a female assassin. I want a well written character. Whose gender is a part of who she is, but not her defining characteristic. Whose culture is a part of who she is, but not her defining characteristic. Whose sexuality is a part of who she is, but not her defining characteristic. Who feels like a person we can relate to, because she's well written. Not because she's female.

Aphex_Tim
06-13-2014, 11:41 AM
I can't stand all that political correct nonsense. I don't care if the main character is male, female, white, black, red or green. As Farlander said, I just want a well written character.
Now I can somewhat understand that Ubi's recent comments caused a stir, but ever since, I've been seeing a lot of bull**** being flung towards Ubi from everywhere; which in my opinion is simply undeserved. Ubi always seems to strive for variety. So far we've had six playable characters in the AC series and only ONE of 'em was a Caucasian male. Not to mention there's always been a strong, varied supporting cast.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 11:41 AM
Agreed - as long as they don't make her grunt so much.. ;)

It's telling that I twigged the new trailer for the next game - was tomb raider - by the sound of her banging against the cliff and letting out that 'grunt'

But have to admit - the reboot of the franchise - has taken a character who was essentially 'eye candy' for many - and made a more realistic rounded person out of it..

A film of those adventures - would be amazing..

Also the new Alien game.. would make a great movie..

Nope - I'm sure they are well aware of the heightened feelings around this issue - due to recent events, which tbh - I won't comment on.

However - They have used a female lead already in AC - as you know and Beyond Good & Evil - which has a massive following, even today ;)

So, they have done it in the past - however - it's IF they can make a female lead 'fit' the games..

Much like Unity has changed MP - for Co-Op [which makes more sense in the game due to the subtext] - 'shoehorning' a female lead into a game that was not written from the ground up - might come off as a simple 'fan service' - and would come under just as much negative press.

I'm sure if they do it, it will be done with as much care and attention as all of their titles..

When, is a different matter - since games are written years in advance etc.

Definitely. when they first revealed the new design, my jaw dropped. I would have never in a million years believed that LARA CROFT out of all characters would be toned down and become an actual character instead of eye candy like you said.

I'm also not petitioning Ubisoft to make any changes to Unity. I've said it before and I'll say it again.. this looks like the AC I've been waiting for since AC2. It's shaping up to be one amazing game for sure. A female skin for co-op that you'd never even see on yourself since you're always Arno would be a disservice because it would waste resources AND it's not even a real female protagonist.

I can only hope that they're busy working on a game with a female protagonist...


I see, it's just interesting to see a guy to have an issue with this, when usually its females who have this issue with representation. Anyway I'm sure you're a decent guy and you obviously have great respect for women. It's humbling to know there are men like you who respect women greatly.

And that's a huge reason right there.

Because it shouldn't come as a shock that a man would fight for something dealing with women. Women should be paid the same, they should be given the same opportunities, they should be represented more in media, and without getting to political, maybe let's not focus so much on their reproductive parts and what they do with them and focus on important stuff people.


I was just saying that as an example. Let me just explain that Ubi have already planned story, character etc.. for the next few AC titles so it would cost them millions of dollars to drop those plans. It's a business they have to think of it that way, and create what sells that ultimately makes them the most money.

Yup. I just really hope AC has a female hero on a major console. It would kill me to stop getting AC...

And I really do consider Aveline a totally valid character and just as good as the others btw. I was only pointing out how a significantly smaller group was able to appreciate that due to it being a handheld release. and those that DID get to enjoy her game didn't get to experience as long and in depth a game as she could have had if it wasn't a handheld title. I would have preferred a full console Aveline game as opposed to Black Flag. Even a story where she goes to the Caribbean for whatever reason would be cool.

Aphex_Tim
06-13-2014, 11:54 AM
To add to my previous post; just after I posted that I read yet another post from one of my (game designing) facebook friends. Roughly translated:
"If I were to start a gaming company with (buddy) and (buddy), diversity would not be an issue. Such a dirty move by Ubisoft!"

Now I'm all for equal rights and all that but when I read shallow bull**** like that I just get infuriated.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-13-2014, 12:05 PM
Hey... I would just like to take this opportunity and say a couple of things.

First off -- I really don't want to make Ubisoft out to be bad guys. I don't think they're sitting around trying to make sure they never have women. Obviously that's not the case, they made a game with Aveline and even included a mission or two in AC4 for Sony systems. They made Beyond Good and Evil. But the imbalance persists and I think that's a more societal thing than Ubisoft's fault. I've mentioned before but they've been pretty great with how diverse their characters have been. Ignoring the difference between console and handheld titles and whatever, Ubisoft has had a syrian protagonist, an italian protag, a native/english protag, an english protag, a female black/french protag, a nigerian protag... When you compare that to the default white male hero we see in almost any modern shooter, action game, adventure game, etc. I think that diversity is really cool and seeing more, well written, strong female characters would be great. I also DO think it's necessary but they shouldn't be shoehorned in by any means. Ubisoft needs to WANT to make a female Assasin. And I hope that they do wind up making a strong, female character for a console AC soon. Also strong doesn't even need to equate to fighting skill. In AC's case well...yeah it does. But for instance...Disney, traditionally known for not having the strongest of female characters has now made two princess films with strong female characters. Tangled is the first where Rapunzel is proactive and while she does need help (and it IS a man who helps her) she actually coerces him to help her.

The second film is Frozen. Which is a great film! First of all, it destroyed virtually every Disney trope -- gone was the obvious Disney villain, they toy with the idea of needing to be kissed by a man and turn it on it's head when they reveal the true love was the love between family and ah. It's great. And it was nice to see a Disney film do that. It was long overdue and it didn't seem like they shoehorned anything in...they were well written and likable characters. Anna is a strong character. Not because she can fight (she can't) but because of her views, traits, personality, determination and...growth. Because... she starts off naive. And she believes her life revolves around finding a man. But it doesn't. And throughout the movie, she's criticized by her older sister and a male character how ridiculous it is to "fall in love" and want to get married to someone she hardly knows.She's imperfect and that makes her a stronger character.

Then don't even get me started on Merida from Brave -- she's more of an AC-strong. She can fight, she doesn't fell her gender should define her roles and doesn't believe in preconceived notions about men do and what women do. That was an awesome movie.

Second -- ....craaaaap, I had a bunch of things I wanted to bring up and now I can't remember them. Maybe I'll remember later. Anyway, I need sleep, So with that really lame forgetful end, I bid thee all a good night.

EchoFiveKilo
06-13-2014, 12:17 PM
Logged in just to laugh at you feminists. Honestly give me reasons how the gender of the character matters. Not to fooking mention how would a woman be as capable of combat as men are? Do you see women in the special forces? Do you see 50kg women able to take down multiple 80kg guys singlehandedly. No. So shutup with your feminist whinging.

Aphex_Tim
06-13-2014, 12:32 PM
Ubisoft has had a syrian protagonist, an italian protag, a native/english protag, an english protag, a female black/french protag, a nigerian protag...

Exactly my point.
It just annoys me to no end that people always need to complain about something - anything! Before even experiencing the final priduct. AC3 was anti-American, Freedom Cry was pro-black propaganda, Unity is anti-female, etc. I'm getting so bloody tired of it!

shobhit7777777
06-13-2014, 12:35 PM
Second -- ....craaaaap, I had a bunch of things I wanted to bring up and now I can't remember them. Maybe I'll remember later. Anyway, I need sleep, So with that really lame forgetful end, I bid thee all a good night.

Thank god


Logged in just to laugh at you feminists. Honestly give me reasons how the gender of the character matters. Not to fooking mention how would a woman be as capable of combat as men are? Do you see women in the special forces? Do you see 50kg women able to take down multiple 80kg guys singlehandedly. No. So shutup with your feminist whinging.

Have YOU seen a 50 Kilo MAN take down multiple 80 Kilo guys?

DinoSteve1
06-13-2014, 12:44 PM
I'm getting so bloody tired of it!
Here have a Coke.


Thank god



Have YOU seen a 50 Kilo MAN take down multiple 80 Kilo guys?

Why are you feeding the troll.

Aphex_Tim
06-13-2014, 12:51 PM
Here have a Coke.


Why, thank you.

Legendz54
06-13-2014, 12:53 PM
ehhhhhh feminism eeeehhhhhhhhhh lololotrololololo fem en ismmmmmmm hehhajdbwqidbqjsic;bdipcndjcbwq

Pantherine
06-13-2014, 12:58 PM
I don't want a female protagonist.

SixKeys
06-13-2014, 01:08 PM
If you're a guy, just ask yourself if you would be okay with the next seven Assassin's Creed games having a female protagonist. If not, why not? We've had seven main games in a row with male protagonists so far. If gender doesn't matter, ask yourself why that is. Why have the last seven games in a row been male protagonists if gender really doesn't matter to publishers?

As for "I don't care if they're male or female, I just want a well-written character", we've had a lot of crappily written characters in the series over the years, let's face it. Is it because they're male? If AC4 got flak in any area, it was for its underdeveloped cast, only two of which were female. Does that mean the maleness of the cast is what made it underdeveloped? Connor got a lot of flak when his game came out. Is it because he's male? No. I have never heard anyone criticize these characters purely because they were male. When Liberation came out, Aveline DID get criticized by some gamers purely based on her gender:

"I hope the next one is a guy again, I just can't relate to a girl character."
"Women aren't as physically strong as men. It's just not realistic that she could do all that stuff." (But leaps of faith are totes realistic.)
"See? Now this series has one female character! (Out of seven. On a handheld system that no-one bought.) All you feminists can stop complaining! Let's hope the next one is male, now that we've gotten the females out of the way."
"If you don't like not having female protagonists, you should just stop playing games." (If you don't like animal torture, just stop eating meat.)

RinoTheBouncer
06-13-2014, 01:24 PM
I really don’t understand what you or other people who mare petitioning for female character for Unity or protagonist for the next game, really want.

Have you not seen a video game that has female protagonist? have you never played Tomb Raider? Resident Evil? Silent Hill 3? Parasite Eve? Mass Effect? Mirror’s Edge? is Ubisoft really obliged to not look sexist in the world’s eyes? and what controversy? the people love to talk **** about anything they see and I won’t take all these discussions seriously enough and call them “controversy”.

Ubisoft is neither obliged to make a female protagonist nor a protagonist of color.Just play the game as it is and if it doesn’t appeal to you, you can just ignore it, as you said. There’s no conspiracy here. Women aren’t gonna be more recognized or live an easier life when Assassin’s Creed brings a female protagonist to the table. I’d welcome any discussion about a story, about gameplay or about they type of missions but does it really matter if the protagonist is male or female? I have nothing against you personally but I think this whole “why did Ubisoft not make a female protagonist?” and “Far Cry 4 artwork looks racist!” has gone way too far.

They’re telling the story of the Creed, if the Creed didn’t have many females then that’s not such a big problem.If they make a female character, they will either make her super-sexualized to appeal to the majority and they’ll be accused of trying to market their games through sex objects, if not, people aren’t gonna pay attention to the character much cause many straight games prefer a good looking girl over a pale looking one. Not many people liked Aveline, and the PS3 port wasn’t that big of a success and neither was the PSVita version.I think if the story is good, if they gameplay is good, if the location is good then who the character is does not matter.

You make a female protagonist so as not to seem sexist and then you make a bisexual protagonist so as not to seem homophobic and then you make a disabled assassin so as not to seem to belittle the role of disabled people in society and knowledge and then you ask for a transexual assassin so that transexual people don’t feel ignored. Really, I don’t mind a female assassin nor a homo/bisexual assassin but not having those isn’t gonna ruin the experience for me and neither will it be offensive to anybody.Just because somebody isn’t part of a film or game or any art project doesn’t mean they’re not respected. It’s a story, take it for what it is or leave it.


If you're a guy, just ask yourself if you would be okay with the next seven Assassin's Creed games having a female protagonist. If not, why not? We've had seven main games in a row with male protagonists so far. If gender doesn't matter, ask yourself why that is. Why have the last seven games in a row been male protagonists if gender really doesn't matter to publishers?

As for "I don't care if they're male or female, I just want a well-written character", we've had a lot of crappily written characters in the series over the years, let's face it. Is it because they're male? If AC4 got flak in any area, it was for its underdeveloped cast, only two of which were female. Does that mean the maleness of the cast is what made it underdeveloped? Connor got a lot of flak when his game came out. Is it because he's male? No. I have never heard anyone criticize these characters purely because they were male. When Liberation came out, Aveline DID get criticized by some gamers purely based on her gender:

"I hope the next one is a guy again, I just can't relate to a girl character."
"Women aren't as physically strong as men. It's just not realistic that she could do all that stuff." (But leaps of faith are totes realistic.)
"See? Now this series has one female character! (Out of seven. On a handheld system that no-one bought.) All you feminists can stop complaining! Let's hope the next one is male, now that we've gotten the females out of the way."
"If you don't like not having female protagonists, you should just stop playing games." (If you don't like animal torture, just stop eating meat.)

I have been playing playing as a female for 8 games in Tomb Raider. I didn’t seem to have a problem with that and on the contrary, I can never stand the fact that they change Lara for any reason because Lara = Tomb Raider and I’m happy and can relate to Lara Croft as a character and the game as a whole. So it has nothing to do with relating or not relating. I can even relate to Lara Croft more than the “me” they presented in modern day of ACIV.

But maybe being an Assassin feels more like a guy thing or perhaps the games were just good enough the way they were. I have nothing against introducing a female protagonist but I didn’t like Aveline. I’m not sure what kind of female protagonist they’re gonna make/ if they’re gonna make it but I don’t mind it yet I don’t care if they don’t do it.

GunnerGalactico
06-13-2014, 01:28 PM
I really don’t understand what you or other people who mare petitioning for female character for Unity or protagonist for the next game, really want. Have you not seen a video game that has female protagonist? have you never played Tomb Raider? Resident Evil? Silent Hill 3? Parasite Eve? Mass Effect? Mirror’s Edge? is Ubisoft really obliged to not look sexist in the world’s eyes? and what controversy? the people love to talk **** about anything they see and I won’t take all these discussions seriously enough and call them “controversy”. Ubisoft is neither obliged to make a female protagonist nor a protagonist of color.Just play the game as it is and if it doesn’t appeal to you, you can just ignore it, as you said. There’s no conspiracy here. Women aren’t gonna be more recognized or live an easier life when Assassin’s Creed brings a female protagonist to the table. I’d welcome any discussion about a story, about gameplay or about they type of missions but does it really matter if the protagonist is male or female? I have nothing against you personally but I think this whole “why did Ubisoft not make a female protagonist?” and “Far Cry 4 artwork looks racist!” has gone way too far. They’re telling the story of the Creed, if the Creed didn’t have many females then that’s not such a big problem.If they make a female character, they will either make her super-sexualized to appeal to the majority and they’ll be accused of trying to market their games through sex objects, if not, people aren’t gonna pay attention to the character much cause many straight games prefer a good looking girl over a pale looking one. Not many people liked Aveline, and the PS3 port wasn’t that big of a success and neither was the PSVita version.I think if the story is good, if they gameplay is good, if the location is good then who the character is does not matter. You make a female protagonist so as not to seem sexist and then you make a bisexual protagonist so as not to seem homophobic and then you make a disabled assassin so as not to seem to belittle the role of disabled people in society and knowledge and then you ask for a transexual assassin so that transexual people don’t feel ignored. Really, I don’t mind a female assassin nor a homo/bisexual assassin but not having those isn’t gonna ruin the experience for me and neither will it be offensive to anybody.Just because somebody isn’t part of a film or game or any art project doesn’t mean they’re not respected. It’s a story, take it for what it is or leave it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

* fist bump *

RinoTheBouncer
06-13-2014, 01:35 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself.

* fist bump *

Much appreciated!

*fist bump*

pacmanate
06-13-2014, 01:51 PM
http://i.imgur.com/326gJjM.pngThese threads are dumb. I don't care for Male or Female Protag, but this is getting out of hand so enjoy reading this post with no substance. http://i.imgur.com/326gJjM.png

Mr_Shade
06-13-2014, 02:07 PM
god I hate those emotes.. break the formatting.. ugly ugly things...

pacmanate
06-13-2014, 02:17 PM
god I hate those http://i.imgur.com/326gJjM.pngemotes.. break the formatting.. ugly ugly things...

you what? http://i.imgur.com/326gJjM.png

ThiagoRichter
06-13-2014, 02:46 PM
Kudos on the post, it's brilliant, on point, and opens a much needed discussion!

And the Assassin's Creed franchise would very well benefit from a female lead. They have some powerful and deeply interesting supporting female characters, such as Lucy, Rebecca, Minerva, Juno... I think a female assassin could be great right now(not counting Aveline, as her game was released on the side).
I find it really unsettling how we're supposedly reliving the memories of ancestors and... OH, WELL, JUST A COINCIDENCE THAT ALL OF THEM HAPPEN TO BE MALE.

I think we can agree on the fact that it would be extremely refreshing as well. We don't know much about Arno yet, and I hope he turns out great, but after Altair and Ezio, the characters haven't exactly been really fleshed out, inspired, or iconic at all. Connor was a fair attempt, and a change of pace, no doubt, but as nice as Edward was, that was a truly failed attempt at Ezio 2.0. He wasn't by any means a memorable character. As the saga progresses, I bet you he is not going to be regarded as one of the greats.

So yeah, as many of you rightfully said, I care about well-written characters. If they could write a great character that happens to be female, I would be very happy.

PS: I am a 23 y/o guy, and I wouldn't feel ANY kind of "discomfort" whatsoever playing an AC game with a female lead, I absolutely love many female-led games (c'mon, TLJ and Dreamfall are probably my favourite games, with the most interesting stories, and both absolutely female-centered), and I think that ain't nobody's got time for "uncomfortable men feeling left out" in an extremely male-centric business. Stop, guys, seriously.

Legendz54
06-13-2014, 03:04 PM
god I hate those emotes.. break the formatting.. ugly ugly things...

Forum Nanny state Commence! Ban the emotes!!

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 03:04 PM
god I hate those emotes.. break the formatting.. ugly ugly things...

huehuehuehue http://i.imgur.com/kr8SyfP.png

ArabianFrost
06-13-2014, 03:07 PM
Due to the complexity of the issue and our lack of knowledge about what ACTUALLY goes behind the doors at Ubisoft, I'll just quit this discussion all together and play video games until arguments on both sides are more than assumptions.

Also, to those who say playing a female character breaks the immersion, or that they can relate more to a white-bearded guy that likes to murder people and jump on rooftops...pretentious much?

Kakuzu745
06-13-2014, 03:42 PM
IMO, we already have Aveline. If you want more women time on the screen the just root for an Aveline game in the main console. I do not see the need of adding more women assassins just because.

If it fits eventually in the time period because it is relevant then that is good, but why force it just because?

RinoTheBouncer
06-13-2014, 03:44 PM
IMO, we already have Aveline. If you want more women time on the screen the just root for an Aveline game in the main console. I do not see the need of adding more women assassins just because.

If it fits eventually in the time period because it is relevant then that is good, but why force it just because?

I completely agree with you. Why add something just for the sake of it? I know I support the idea of adding a bisexual assassin but I suggest the idea not make ridiculous petitions about it like some are. They’re making it sound like Ubisoft are sexists. Perhaps a female modern day protagonist would do go, like the one they introduced on ACINITIATES.COM

jayjay275
06-13-2014, 03:48 PM
To be frank, I couldn't care less. That being said, I can understand why people want women assassins in Assassin's Creed

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 03:50 PM
Making a joke at someone's expense is not unfair. We make jokes about people ALL the time. We HAVE jokes about men. Such as men refusing to read maps...that's a stereotype for men. But wanna know what the unfair treatment is? It's creating laws that are intentionally designed to not give them the same rights (i.e. the pay gap between women and men). THAT's the unfair treatment. Women are way more likely to be the victims of spousal abuse than men as well.

We're quick to ask what a woman was wearing after a rape or say "oh she probably just wants money" by insinuating that she's lying about the ordeal rather than looking at the rapist and asking why he ever thought it was okay.

So even with horrifying tales of women harming men, the truth is... society has made it easier for men to get jobs, to earn more, to DO more, to be judged less harshly, and men attack and murder women far more often.


LMFAO! Oh god... You're ****ing hilarious.

Like I said someones wife can fall down the stairs, get a black eye, take their husband to court and get him in jail for abuse. Stop that ********. Women have the advantage in court. There's even a woman that took her husband to court for rape, it would be an easy thing to do.

Oh and men are evil and if they divorce they obviously deserve to never see their children or were you oblivious to the fact that men get ****ed out of their possessions and children in most divorce cases?

**** off. your argument is disgustingly one sided and your idiocy pisses me off to no end. You really are just another moron defending women while perfectly willing to ignore the advantages they do have.

Internet feminists are absolutely mad.

I'll give you that men murder more often but get the **** out of here with the "men murder women more often" men murder more often period it has **** all to do with women.

You're just another Tumblr/Instagram feminist *******. Cut from the exact same cloth as if some ******* in the government cloned some annoying bastard a thousand times over and gave them a job to spout ******** over the internet.

RatonhnhakeFan
06-13-2014, 03:53 PM
I completely agree with you. Why add something just for the sake of it? I know I support the idea of adding a bisexual assassin but I suggest the idea not make ridiculous petitions about it like some are. They’re making it sound like Ubisoft are sexists. Perhaps a female modern day protagonist would do go, like the one they introduced on ACINITIATES.COM
Why insist on white straight dudes 95% of the time just because? In AC series and in other Ubisoft games and in other games in this industry? Yes, in a larger picture, if all publishers deny the AAA blockbuster protagonist spot women and minorities almost all the time then of course it shows disrespect.



So, they have done it in the past - however - it's IF they can make a female lead 'fit' the games..
BS. Let's call it how it is, you know that executives and marketing suits meddle with decisions such as this and everyone else knows it as well. If tomorrow the next AC dev team presented one-legged asian lesbian to be the protagonist of main console AC for 2017, it would be blocked.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 04:28 PM
Why insist on white straight dudes 95% of the time just because? In AC series and in other Ubisoft games and in other games in this industry? Yes, in a larger picture, if all publishers deny the AAA blockbuster protagonist spot women and minorities almost all the time then of course it shows disrespect.


BS. Let's call it how it is, you know that executives and marketing suits meddle with decisions such as this and everyone else knows it as well. If tomorrow the next AC dev team presented one-legged asian lesbian to be the protagonist of main console AC for 2017, it would be blocked.

All of that is business and not sexism. Homosexuals are still a relatively miniscule part of the population, it doesn't make sense to someone trying to make money to market a video game to them that has never touched too much on the subject before other than Leonardo Da Vinci.

Maybe that's not fair but that's just business, it's not fair, you win when you market to the right people and to a core audience when you have a series such as this.

Oh and how amusing, I didn't know Syrians, Native Americans, or African women were white.

No company should bend over so that some idiot can feel better about themselves cause they're in a video game. Seriously is this planet so pathetic, self absorbed and immature that they're seriously bugged that there's not enough people like them in video games?

Humanity need some sort of re-education to stop being pathetic.

ze_topazio
06-13-2014, 04:40 PM
Why insist on white straight dudes 95% of the time just because? In AC series and in other Ubisoft games and in other games in this industry? Yes, in a larger picture, if all publishers deny the AAA blockbuster protagonist spot women and minorities almost all the time then of course it shows disrespect.

Because nobody insists, white males are just the default, just like orange roof tiles, white painted walls, blue ink pens, etc..., deal with it!

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 04:46 PM
No company should bend over so that some idiot can feel better about themselves cause they're in a video game. Seriously is this planet so pathetic, self absorbed and immature that they're seriously bugged that there's not enough people like them in video games?

Yes and in that case where is my hairy blind fat assassins creed game UBISOFT?? I need to feel good about myself :(

http://i.imgur.com/pOQ3tgS.png

RatonhnhakeFan
06-13-2014, 04:57 PM
No company should bend over so that some idiot can feel better about themselves cause they're in a video game. Seriously is this planet so pathetic, self absorbed and immature that they're seriously bugged that there's not enough people like them in video games?

Humanity need some sort of re-education to stop being pathetic.I was responding to your original post and then you added your extra bit of stupidity, no point bothering. Also, I suggest you go back to elemnatry school to check what race Syrians are. Seems like your entire education stopped at before that level.


Because nobody insists, white males are just the default, just like orange roof tiles, white painted walls, blue ink pens, etc..., deal with it!Nope. You're gonna be the one who will have to deal with white dudes not getting undeserved privilege forever.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 04:57 PM
Yes and in that case where is my hairy blind fat assassins creed game UBISOFT?? I need to feel good about myself :(

http://i.imgur.com/pOQ3tgS.png

Don't you know? Obviously killed by a fascist, rich, white, landowning Templar.

Because everything is a conspiracy against women and blacks. Especially in America where their lives are so terrible, having food, housing, jobs, and comfortable life styles.


I was responding to your original post and then you added your extra bit of stupidity, no point bothering. Also, I suggest you go back to elemnatry school to check what race Syrians are. Seems like your entire education stopped at before that level.

Their Arabic which anyone with half a brain knows is very different from Caucasian, Syrians share a common Levantine ancestry again NOT ****ing white.

So what in the hell is your point? My point is that he isn't white, dismantling the argument that every character is a straight white male.




Nope. You're gonna be the one who will have to deal with white dudes not getting undeserved privilege forever.

How pitiful you must be for something so pathetically unimportant to give you such severe butthurt.

I'm not white either and you know what? I don't give a **** what race or gender the character is and their so called privilege has no effect on my life, I have more important things to worry about.

I mean seriously don't you have better things to do than be sour about the high prevalence of male characters?

RatonhnhakeFan
06-13-2014, 05:04 PM
Their Arabic which anyone with half a brain knows is very different from Caucasian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race



How pitiful you must be for something so pathetically unimportant to give you such severe butthurt.
Then what are you doing in this thread being stupid as hell in every post, throwing f word ever sentence etc? You're butthurt beyond classification on this topic and you prove it with each post. You're pathetic.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 05:07 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

As in white you twit. My wording was terrible but you know damn well what I meant.

Shahkulu101
06-13-2014, 05:09 PM
I was responding to your original post and then you added your extra bit of stupidity, no point bothering. Also, I suggest you go back to elemnatry school to check what race Syrians are. Seems like your entire education stopped at before that level.

Nope. You're gonna be the one who will have to deal with white dudes not getting undeserved privilege forever.

Yeah...once again assuming everybody judges characters on race and gender...and gives a **** what race and gender people are.

Perk89
06-13-2014, 05:11 PM
Ubisoft, please make the next protagonist white and with blonde hair and blue eyes.



see? Now we're even. What is Ubi to do?



actually, better yet, let's just construct a good character and worry about the things like race and sex as they would apply to the imagined plot, since this is how the best stories are always constructed. I mean how idiotic would it be go picking physical traits for a character before you actually had a reason for having such character exist (you know, other than LOOK AT HOW EQUAL AND PROGRESSIVE WE ARE) I mean that would be just stupid.


surely everyone knows that right.

SixKeys
06-13-2014, 05:27 PM
The thing that gets me is that for all this "ohhh, I just want a good character, I don't care about gender!" posturing, I'll bet that if Ubisoft announced tomorrow that next year's AC was going to feature a female protagonist, all the dudebros would be like "whargarbl, they're caving in to the feminazi pressure!!1".

Shahkulu101
06-13-2014, 05:29 PM
The thing that gets me is that for all this "ohhh, I just want a good character, I don't care about gender!" posturing, I'll bet that if Ubisoft announced tomorrow that next year's AC was going to feature a female protagonist, all the dudebros would be like "whargarbl, they're caving in to the feminazi pressure!!1".

I'm one of those people.

I would not say that.

MasterAssasin84
06-13-2014, 05:32 PM
Yea I would like to see this also I mean I really enjoyed Aveline .

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 05:33 PM
I'm one of those people.

I wouldn't say that either.

I-Like-Pie45
06-13-2014, 05:34 PM
I WOULD

LOVE, rc

Jexx21
06-13-2014, 05:39 PM
the more we care about the race or gender of the characters we connect to the more we start to identify people by the color of their skin or what's between their legs rather than by their beliefs and actions

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 05:42 PM
the more we care about the race or gender of the characters we connect to the more we start to identify people by the color of their skin or what's between their legs rather than by their beliefs and actions

I agree, society calling so much attention to race and gender was a stupid move.

It needs to be something that's not ignored no but something that simply doesn't matter enough to be addressed. It shouldn't be important most of all in the case of someone else's work of art.

RatonhnhakeFan
06-13-2014, 05:44 PM
I'm one of those people.

I would not say that.Yet you and many other people who SWEAR they don't care about race/gender or anything keep arguing in these threads all the time and coming up with excuses why it's totally fine to have white straight guys dominate gaming industry so majorly and why shouldn't game developers diversifi their cast of main protagonists, especially in AAA blockbusters. So don't be surprised if many people don't buy it

killzab
06-13-2014, 05:47 PM
Yet you and many other people who SWEAR they don't care about race/gender or anything keep arguing in these threads all the time and coming up with excuses why it's totally fine to have white straight guys dominate gaming industry so majorly and why shouldn't game developers diversifi their cast of main protagonists, especially in AAA blockbusters. So don't be surprised if many people don't buy it


It's not gonna impact sales

Jexx21
06-13-2014, 05:49 PM
I would love for more games to have female protagonists, but you do have to make sure it makes sense in the context of the story.

I would love a Shao Jun game. I would love it if the next Dues Ex had a female protagonist, or the next Splinter Cell, etc. but I don't want them in there just because people asked for it. I would love another Connor game as well but I would want it to be a quality game and not just something cheap to appease the many Connor fans. If they want to do cheap they can do his story on Initiates (which while I wouldn't prefer it, I'm not completely opposed to the idea).

Shahkulu101
06-13-2014, 05:51 PM
Yet you and many other people who SWEAR they don't care about race/gender or anything keep arguing in these threads all the time and coming up with excuses why it's totally fine to have white straight guys dominate gaming industry so majorly and why shouldn't game developers diversifi their cast of main protagonists, especially in AAA blockbusters. So don't be surprised if many people don't buy it

I have never said I was against diversity, I only ever tried to quell what I believe is a mass overreaction. I believe developers should create stories first and foremost, that does mean I am AGAINST having a female assassin, or a black Assassin, or a gay assassin.

Good day, RatonhakeFan.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 05:52 PM
Yet you and many other people who SWEAR they don't care about race/gender or anything keep arguing in these threads all the time and coming up with excuses why it's totally fine to have white straight guys dominate gaming industry so majorly and why shouldn't game developers diversifi their cast of main protagonists, especially in AAA blockbusters. So don't be surprised if many people don't buy it

I argue because I find it ludicrous that someone cares about something so pathetically insubstantial and labels themselves a victim to some kind of insane perceived oppression. It's all merely business and has nothing to do with racism or sexism. Nothing at all.

You internet feminists and social justice warriors need to quit seeing enemies where none exist. Everytime there's no minority you scream injustice/sexism/racism while clearly not even considering the other factors.

There IS inequality, racism, and sexism in the real word but this.. this is just art and you guys need to leave it alone, all you're doing is being annoying *****s who seem like you only argue for one side of the coin. Nobody wants to read that copy paste ****, it's all over the internet.

Go out into the world and do productive things to create equality, leave art out of it. Business definitely won't bend over for you they only care for money.

RatonhnhakeFan
06-13-2014, 05:58 PM
I argue because I find it ludicrous that someone cares about something so pathetically insubstantial and labels themselves a victim to some kind of insane perceived oppression. It's all merely business and has nothing to do with racism or sexism. Nothing at all.

You internet feminists and social justice warriors need to quit seeing enemies where none exist. Everytime there's no minority you scream injustice/sexism/racism while clearly not even considering the other factors.

There IS inequality, racism, and sexism in the real word but this.. this is just art and you guys need to leave it alone, all you're doing is being annoying *****s who seem like you only argue for one side of the coin. Nobody wants to read that copy paste ****, it's all over the internet.

Go out into the world and do productive things to create equality, leave art out of it. Business definitely won't bend over for you they only care for money.
Are is not made in vacuum nor does it exist in vacuum. It's a product of people's views and in turn influences other people's views. We're not talking aliens making documentaries about human race for viewing pleasure of children aliens. Art is made by humans for humans so you can't separate it from real world.

SixKeys
06-13-2014, 05:58 PM
http://jp8.r0tt.com/t_d8853c90-f4b5-11e1-9cf3-7d8708500008.jpg

Hans684
06-13-2014, 05:58 PM
I argue because I find it ludicrous that someone cares about something so pathetically insubstantial and labels themselves a victim to some kind of insane perceived oppression. It's all merely business and has nothing to do with racism or sexism. Nothing at all.

You internet feminists and social justice warriors need to quit seeing enemies where none exist. Everytime there's no minority you scream injustice/sexism/racism while clearly not even considering the other factors.

There IS inequality, racism, and sexism in the real word but this.. this is just art and you guys need to leave it alone, all you're doing is being annoying *****s who seem like you only argue for one side of the coin. Nobody wants to read that copy paste ****, it's all over the internet.

Go out into the world and do productive things to create equality, leave art out of it. Business definitely won't bend over for you they only care for money.

Read this in Haytham's voice.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 06:14 PM
Are is not made in vacuum nor does it exist in vacuum. It's a product of people's views and in turn influences other people's views. We're not talking aliens making documentaries about human race for viewing pleasure of children aliens. Art is made by humans for humans so you can't separate it from real world.

Yes you can because it only affects you if you're foolish enough to care.

This is why we tell children that tv is crap and just fantasy, it should have no bearing on their beliefs or morals. It's simply entertainment.

There's many issues that are actually important in the battle for equality and this battle holds no weight, if you won it would make no difference, make no change. Society would remain the same, just as racist and sexist as it's always been.

All for the simple fact that most gamers simply don't care about gender or race, I don't, I've played games with all genders and races, I even choose to play as a girl in most games that allow it as I prefer that and yet I don't complain when a game doesn't allow that.

It's a companies right to create the product they want to create. The gender and race of a character has zero impact on my enjoyment of a game.


Read this in Haytham's voice.

You flatter me. -bows-

SixKeys
06-13-2014, 06:19 PM
This is why we tell children that tv is crap and just fantasy, it should have no bearing on their beliefs or morals. It's simply entertainment.


Is that what people tell their children? Because that is patently false. TV actively shapes our beliefs and morals. Just look at the difference between people who only follow Fox News vs. people who follow many different news sources.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 06:25 PM
Is that what people tell their children? Because that is patently false. TV actively shapes our beliefs and morals. Just look at the difference between people who only follow Fox News vs. people who follow many different news sources.

If you're a sheep and you lack the common sense to allow it to do so.

I'm not talking about the masses I'm referring to the people who are out there doing productive things not squabbling over news networks or gaining beliefs and morals from entertainment.

I don't refer to the average joe, the average joe does not take a stand on these issues, the people taking the stands are the people who want to affect change. These people I sure hope are above letting entertainment shape them.

It would be the same to allow video games to shape your children, it's the reason parents don't allow children to play rated M games, their minds are not yet ready to comprehend that what's shown is not something to take to in reality.

Hans684
06-13-2014, 06:27 PM
You flatter me. -bows-

It sounded like something Haytham would have said.

Haytham: Ah, that's a story as old as time itself, and one that's not likely to change. We're cruel and desperate creatures, set in our conquering ways. The Saxons and the Franks, the Ottomans and the Safavids – I could go on for hours! The whole of human history is but a series of subjugations.

Lee: I pray we one day rise above it.

Haytham: While you pray, I'll act. We'll see who finds success first, hmm?

Lee: It was an expression.

Haytham: Aye, and a dangerous one. Words have power: wield them wisely.

ze_topazio
06-13-2014, 06:29 PM
Nope. You're gonna be the one who will have to deal with white dudes not getting undeserved privilege forever.

This sexy white dudebro (your insistence in using this terms makes you sound rather racist btw), will then return to his privileged life, I'm going to continue playing Batman, it makes me feel so good, confident and important that Batman is a white dudebro like me, how could I survive without white dudebros in videogames for me to relate to, finding them in real live or something? actually doing my thing without needing to admire anyone?

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 06:30 PM
It sounded like something Haytham would have said.

Haytham: Ah, that's a story as old as time itself, and one that's not likely to change. We're cruel and desperate creatures, set in our conquering ways. The Saxons and the Franks, the Ottomans and the Safavids – I could go on for hours! The whole of human history is but a series of subjugations.

Lee: I pray we one day rise above it.

Haytham: While you pray, I'll act. We'll see who finds success first, hmm?

Lee: It was an expression.

Haytham: Aye, and a dangerous one. Words have power: wield them wisely.

I still wish AC3 had focused on him. He was so charismatic, so skillful, and highly intelligent.

SixKeys
06-13-2014, 06:31 PM
If you're a sheep and you lack the common sense to allow it to do so.

I'm not talking about the masses I'm referring to the people who are out there doing productive things not squabbling over news networks or gaining beliefs and morals from entertainment. .

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals and you know it."

The things you are fed by the media shape the way you view the world. You cannot help it. I don't care how smart you think you are, you're part of the masses as much as everyone else. You can be critical of the things you view and absolutely should be (which is why I find it hilarious how many hoops you're willing to jump through to deny that there's only a 3% difference between male and female gamers). But you are not immune to the power of media.

Shahkulu101
06-13-2014, 06:32 PM
It sounded like something Haytham would have said.

Haytham: Ah, that's a story as old as time itself, and one that's not likely to change. We're cruel and desperate creatures, set in our conquering ways. The Saxons and the Franks, the Ottomans and the Safavids – I could go on for hours! The whole of human history is but a series of subjugations.

Lee: I pray we one day rise above it.

Haytham: While you pray, I'll act. We'll see who finds success first, hmm?

Lee: It was an expression.

Haytham: Aye, and a dangerous one. Words have power: wield them wisely.

Was this from Forsaken? It makes me want to read it.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 06:34 PM
Was this from Forsaken? It makes me want to read it.

No it's during the Haytham sequences of AC3.

Hans684
06-13-2014, 06:36 PM
Was this from Forsaken? It makes me want to read it.

It's from the game, there is a few interactive(optional) conversations.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Interactive_conversations


I still wish AC3 had focused on him. He was so charismatic, so skillful, and highly intelligent.

Agree, Connor could also get a full game for himself then.

Jexx21
06-13-2014, 06:36 PM
That's from AC3 Shahk.

Anyway, AC has never taught us that women are weal or ineffective. Rather the opposite rather. Whether or not we're actually playing as one doesn't change that.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 06:39 PM
That's from AC3 Shahk.

Anyway, AC has never taught us that women are weal or ineffective. Rather the opposite rather. Whether or not we're actually playing as one doesn't change that.

Indeed, Claudia in Brotherhood is a clear example, Ezio was even worried about her but they proved that worrying was foolish, she was more than capable.

Shahkulu101
06-13-2014, 06:40 PM
Yeah I decided not to engage in the optional conversations with Haytham's buddies after William Johnson harped on for about 10 minutes about himself in the most boring way possible.

Although I did talk to The Clan Mother and Kanentokon at the village a few times.

Hans684
06-13-2014, 06:41 PM
That's from AC3 Shahk.

Anyway, AC has never taught us that women are weal or ineffective. Rather the opposite rather. Whether or not we're actually playing as one doesn't change that.

Like Claudia having the skill to survive the attack from 3 armed guards with a tiny knife and in a dress with no blood or marks.

SixKeys
06-13-2014, 06:43 PM
Like Claudia having the skill to survive the attack from 3 armed guards with a tiny knife and in a dress with no blood or marks.

AltaÔr did it all the time (those robes he wears are basically the same as a dress). :p

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 06:45 PM
Yeah I decided not to engage in the optional conversations with Haytham's buddies after William Johnson harped on for about 10 minutes about himself in the most boring way possible.

Although I did talk to The Clan Mother and Kanentokon at the village a few times.

I found it very interesting myself, seeing as they were important characters I felt that when I assassinated those conversations really gave me a better feel of their personalities, motives, and morals.

It felt pretty bad to kill them all, Thomas Hickey was the one that struck me the most with his offer to pay Haytham back thrice fold for his help if it pleases. It showed me that he wasn't just a man with simple desires but one who values fairness and appreciates the things people do for him.

All of those conversations helped immensely to paint the Templars in a more human light, except for maybe Benjamin Church, he's an ******* lol.


Like Claudia having the skill to survive the attack from 3 armed guards with a tiny knife and in a dress with no blood or marks.

Such skill!

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 06:46 PM
Much knife

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 06:55 PM
Very assassin!

Hans684
06-13-2014, 06:59 PM
Such skill!


Much knife


Very assassin!

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.15216233.9653/fc,550x550,white.u2.jpg

EchoFiveKilo
06-14-2014, 03:38 AM
Kill all feminazis.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-14-2014, 09:53 AM
Exactly my point.
It just annoys me to no end that people always need to complain about something - anything! Before even experiencing the final priduct. AC3 was anti-American, Freedom Cry was pro-black propaganda, Unity is anti-female, etc. I'm getting so bloody tired of it!

I'm not saying Unity is anti-female. Maybe some are, but I'm not. Also the people who said AC3 was PRO-American (I remember people saying it was going to be 'MERICUHHH and make the British seem super evil but yeah) were dumb because there was absolutely nothing suggesting that. I never heard about people saying AC4 was pro-black but...even if it was -- why would that be bad..?, and as for Unity... my criticisms are not that Unity has a male protag, it's that the entire series has only had one female in a game that was a handheld spin off to a male-led console game on a platform that barely anyone had at the time.


Thank god

How childish.


If you're a guy, just ask yourself if you would be okay with the next seven Assassin's Creed games having a female protagonist. If not, why not? We've had seven main games in a row with male protagonists so far. If gender doesn't matter, ask yourself why that is. Why have the last seven games in a row been male protagonists if gender really doesn't matter to publishers?

As for "I don't care if they're male or female, I just want a well-written character", we've had a lot of crappily written characters in the series over the years, let's face it. Is it because they're male? If AC4 got flak in any area, it was for its underdeveloped cast, only two of which were female. Does that mean the maleness of the cast is what made it underdeveloped? Connor got a lot of flak when his game came out. Is it because he's male? No. I have never heard anyone criticize these characters purely because they were male. When Liberation came out, Aveline DID get criticized by some gamers purely based on her gender:

"I hope the next one is a guy again, I just can't relate to a girl character."
"Women aren't as physically strong as men. It's just not realistic that she could do all that stuff." (But leaps of faith are totes realistic.)
"See? Now this series has one female character! (Out of seven. On a handheld system that no-one bought.) All you feminists can stop complaining! Let's hope the next one is male, now that we've gotten the females out of the way."
"If you don't like not having female protagonists, you should just stop playing games." (If you don't like animal torture, just stop eating meat.)

I was going to bold the parts I most agree with. I realized by the end that I made the whole thing bold...


You make a female protagonist so as not to seem sexist and then you make a bisexual protagonist so as not to seem homophobic and then you make a disabled assassin so as not to seem to belittle the role of disabled people in society and knowledge and then you ask for a transexual assassin so that transexual people donít feel ignored. Really, I donít mind a female assassin nor a homo/bisexual assassin but not having those isnít gonna ruin the experience for me and neither will it be offensive to anybody.Just because somebody isnít part of a film or game or any art project doesnít mean theyíre not respected. Itís a story, take it for what it is or leave it.

The difference between making a female Assassin (or homosexual Assassin for that matter) is that a disabled Assassin would fundamentally change the established gameplay whereas a female or homosexual Assassin would not.

A transsexual Assassin would also not fundamentally change the game. Transsexual simply means you don't identify with the physical gender you have... if you were referring to people who undergo operations well obviously that wouldn't have been around at any point in history until very recently and thus would fundamentally change the game. A modern day character COULD be disabled (and would be cool -- they're disabled but their mind, their DNA, will unlock the key to success and thus, despite being disabled.. CAN be the hero) and the modern day hero could be trans.


I have been playing playing as a female for 8 games in Tomb Raider. I didnít seem to have a problem with that and on the contrary, I can never stand the fact that they change Lara for any reason because Lara = Tomb Raider and Iím happy and can relate to Lara Croft as a character and the game as a whole. So it has nothing to do with relating or not relating. I can even relate to Lara Croft more than the ďmeĒ they presented in modern day of ACIV.

And we ALL know that Lara in her -totally practical for the kind of work she does- booty shorts and impossibly small waist and large breasts are totally progressive and not at all unfair to women. If you wanna talk Lara... let's talk this Lara who is a much better character than she used to be (note the realistic waist and the more practical outfit)
http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Tomb-Raider-Reboot-Gets-Impressive-Trailer-2.jpg

and not this Lara who's eyecandy for men (note the impossibly thin waist and outfit)
http://www.1zoom.net/big2/43/129105-Burbon.jpg?m=1


But maybe being an Assassin feels more like a guy thing

One of the biggest events around the time of the Revolution in France was caused by a female Assassin so again... not really reflecting reality as it's definitely NOT just a "guy thing" and even if, historically, it WAS a male dominated role, the Assassins are a fictional group who promote freedom and equality and liberalism -- heck even Ezio trains female Assassins in Brotherhood and ACR.


Kudos on the post, it's brilliant, on point, and opens a much needed discussion!

And the Assassin's Creed franchise would very well benefit from a female lead. They have some powerful and deeply interesting supporting female characters, such as Lucy, Rebecca, Minerva, Juno... I think a female assassin could be great right now(not counting Aveline, as her game was released on the side).
I find it really unsettling how we're supposedly reliving the memories of ancestors and... OH, WELL, JUST A COINCIDENCE THAT ALL OF THEM HAPPEN TO BE MALE.

I think we can agree on the fact that it would be extremely refreshing as well. We don't know much about Arno yet, and I hope he turns out great, but after Altair and Ezio, the characters haven't exactly been really fleshed out, inspired, or iconic at all. Connor was a fair attempt, and a change of pace, no doubt, but as nice as Edward was, that was a truly failed attempt at Ezio 2.0. He wasn't by any means a memorable character. As the saga progresses, I bet you he is not going to be regarded as one of the greats.

So yeah, as many of you rightfully said, I care about well-written characters. If they could write a great character that happens to be female, I would be very happy.

PS: I am a 23 y/o guy, and I wouldn't feel ANY kind of "discomfort" whatsoever playing an AC game with a female lead, I absolutely love many female-led games (c'mon, TLJ and Dreamfall are probably my favourite games, with the most interesting stories, and both absolutely female-centered), and I think that ain't nobody's got time for "uncomfortable men feeling left out" in an extremely male-centric business. Stop, guys, seriously.

Thank you -- it shouldn't be any more difficult to come up with a well-written female character than it would be to come up with a well-written male character. In fact, even if it's a not-so-greatly written female lead, that's in no way worse than a not-so-greatly written male lead.


IMO, we already have Aveline. If you want more women time on the screen the just root for an Aveline game in the main console. I do not see the need of adding more women assassins just because.

If it fits eventually in the time period because it is relevant then that is good, but why force it just because?

IMO, we already have Altair, Ezio, Connor, Edward, Adewale, and even Haytham. I do not see the need of adding more men assassins just because.

See... one woman is "good enough" -- why? Why should we try and get a game featuring the exact same female character? Listen, if they DID release an Aveline sequel on a console -- yes, great. That'd be cool. But why can't they make a new female character? You act as if we only need one and yet the series has has 6 (now 7) male characters. One could say "we already have Altair, why not just use him over and over and over and over and over." No one did because that's silly... but it's totally not silly to say that in regards to the one female protag we have currently, I guess.


Because nobody insists, white males are just the default, just like orange roof tiles, white painted walls, blue ink pens, etc..., deal with it!

And white males being the default is just stupid. If gender/race doesn't matter... there shouldn't BE a default. But there is and like you said, it's the white male. A hero is not determined by their race or gender but by their traits, their beliefs, etc. And that's exactly why it makes no sense for there to be a default and why females need to be represented as heroes and not just objects more often. It's not that they're never represented as heroes (the new Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, etc.) but those few are grossly outnumbered by the sheer volume of media that has male heroes.


Yea I would like to see this also I mean I really enjoyed Aveline .

Yeah more female Assassins would be cool. I'm hoping for a female Chinese Assassin... that's my dream AC right there. It doesn't have to be Shao Jun as I wouldn't care what time period they chose and if they wanted to do China in a different time period as opposed to 1500s, I'd be down.


I argue because I find it ludicrous that someone cares about something so pathetically insubstantial and labels themselves a victim to some kind of insane perceived oppression. It's all merely business and has nothing to do with racism or sexism. Nothing at all.

You internet feminists and social justice warriors need to quit seeing enemies where none exist. Everytime there's no minority you scream injustice/sexism/racism while clearly not even considering the other factors.

There IS inequality, racism, and sexism in the real word but this.. this is just art and you guys need to leave it alone, all you're doing is being annoying *****s who seem like you only argue for one side of the coin. Nobody wants to read that copy paste ****, it's all over the internet.

Go out into the world and do productive things to create equality, leave art out of it. Business definitely won't bend over for you they only care for money.

Cry about it.


Kill all feminazis.

Yeah, that's a totally not Nazi-like thing to say.

Jexx21
06-14-2014, 10:28 AM
I have an idea for a Ubi game, not AC though:

Far Cry 5: You play as a female who is backpacking through Eastern Europe/Asia Minor with some friends, around the Black Sea (both male and female) and you're kidnapped in the night. You're tied up to a post by yourself when you come to, and you work your way free of the restraints, and you go around looking for your friends, when you go to cut one of your friends free a woman dressed as a warrior stops and attacks you. You fight back, but others arrive and you're overwhelmed. You are taken to the leader of this group, and they reveal that they are an all woman-group of warriors, the Amazons, and want you to become one.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 10:37 AM
I think we can agree on the fact that it would be extremely refreshing as well. We don't know much about Arno yet, and I hope he turns out great, but after Altair and Ezio, the characters haven't exactly been really fleshed out

Gee, I wonder why. I'm sure the number of games they got has nothing to do with it.. :rolleyes:


no doubt, but as nice as Edward was, that was a truly failed attempt at Ezio 2.0.

So tired of this argument. Makes me believe that people look into a character only skin-deep. Listen, do us and yourself a favor and make two lists. In first list the similarities between him and Godzio. In the second list differences. Then tell us how he was Ezio 2.0.


He wasn't by any means a memorable character.

Obviously your opinion is reflective of how the general fanbase thinks of him..


As the saga progresses, I bet you he is not going to be regarded as one of the greats.

Duh. One was the series starter and the other got three times the games as others rest got. And now that we seem to be going the one-protag-one-game route, you don't have to be Nostradamus to see why that is the case. And that Ezio is regarded as "great" makes me not trust the judgement of whoever granted sainthood to him. he only truly shined in his last act. But what do I know, most of the people were probably swooning over him when he was describing Sforza as his latest conquest. I'd take Connor over him anyday.

http://i.imgur.com/pOQ3tgS.png

jayjay275
06-14-2014, 10:54 AM
What if Comet has a female protagonist...? I can guarantee you people will want a male assassin more over a female assassin, and I'm sure Ubisoft probably do to, because a male character usually sells better than a female character.

Jexx21
06-14-2014, 10:57 AM
that's actually why they would relegate a female character to Comet.

Comet is obviously going to get less marketing and a female character would be better for it. Either Shao Jun or a Connor/Aveline game.

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 10:58 AM
I'm not saying Unity is anti-female. Maybe some are, but I'm not. Also the people who said AC3 was PRO-American (I remember people saying it was going to be 'MERICUHHH and make the British seem super evil but yeah) were dumb because there was absolutely nothing suggesting that. I never heard about people saying AC4 was pro-black but...even if it was -- why would that be bad..?, and as for Unity... my criticisms are not that Unity has a male protag, it's that the entire series has only had one female in a game that was a handheld spin off to a male-led console game on a platform that barely anyone had at the time.



How childish.



I was going to bold the parts I most agree with. I realized by the end that I made the whole thing bold...



The difference between making a female Assassin (or homosexual Assassin for that matter) is that a disabled Assassin would fundamentally change the established gameplay whereas a female or homosexual Assassin would not.

A transsexual Assassin would also not fundamentally change the game. Transsexual simply means you don't identify with the physical gender you have... if you were referring to people who undergo operations well obviously that wouldn't have been around at any point in history until very recently and thus would fundamentally change the game. A modern day character COULD be disabled (and would be cool -- they're disabled but their mind, their DNA, will unlock the key to success and thus, despite being disabled.. CAN be the hero) and the modern day hero could be trans.



And we ALL know that Lara in her -totally practical for the kind of work she does- booty shorts and impossibly small waist and large breasts are totally progressive and not at all unfair to women. If you wanna talk Lara... let's talk this Lara who is a much better character than she used to be (note the realistic waist and the more practical outfit)
http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Tomb-Raider-Reboot-Gets-Impressive-Trailer-2.jpg

and not this Lara who's eyecandy for men (note the impossibly thin waist and outfit)
http://www.1zoom.net/big2/43/129105-Burbon.jpg?m=1



One of the biggest events around the time of the Revolution in France was caused by a female Assassin so again... not really reflecting reality as it's definitely NOT just a "guy thing" and even if, historically, it WAS a male dominated role, the Assassins are a fictional group who promote freedom and equality and liberalism -- heck even Ezio trains female Assassins in Brotherhood and ACR.



Thank you -- it shouldn't be any more difficult to come up with a well-written female character than it would be to come up with a well-written male character. In fact, even if it's a not-so-greatly written female lead, that's in no way worse than a not-so-greatly written male lead.



IMO, we already have Altair, Ezio, Connor, Edward, Adewale, and even Haytham. I do not see the need of adding more men assassins just because.

See... one woman is "good enough" -- why? Why should we try and get a game featuring the exact same female character? Listen, if they DID release an Aveline sequel on a console -- yes, great. That'd be cool. But why can't they make a new female character? You act as if we only need one and yet the series has has 6 (now 7) male characters. One could say "we already have Altair, why not just use him over and over and over and over and over." No one did because that's silly... but it's totally not silly to say that in regards to the one female protag we have currently, I guess.



And white males being the default is just stupid. If gender/race doesn't matter... there shouldn't BE a default. But there is and like you said, it's the white male. A hero is not determined by their race or gender but by their traits, their beliefs, etc. And that's exactly why it makes no sense for there to be a default and why females need to be represented as heroes and not just objects more often. It's not that they're never represented as heroes (the new Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, etc.) but those few are grossly outnumbered by the sheer volume of media that has male heroes.



Yeah more female Assassins would be cool. I'm hoping for a female Chinese Assassin... that's my dream AC right there. It doesn't have to be Shao Jun as I wouldn't care what time period they chose and if they wanted to do China in a different time period as opposed to 1500s, I'd be down.



Cry about it.



Yeah, that's a totally not Nazi-like thing to say.

Then cry about women not being represented in games. Honestly, they don't need to be. If theres a female assassin in the next game, fine. That's the story they want to tell. But if they make it just because they want to appease guys like you and women, (when not all women are feminists or care) then that'd just be depressing. If anything you're just trying to censor Ubi.

Why do you want a female character? Don't say you want them to be represented. Don't say you just like it better. Don't say because thats what comes to your head whenever you make a character. Don't tell me because we haven't had one, when we have. Don't tell me because there's too many dudes. Really just tell my why in anyway it would be better.

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 10:59 AM
What if Comet has a female protagonist...? I can guarantee you people will want a male assassin more over a female assassin, and I'm sure Ubisoft probably do to, because a male character usually sells better than a female character.

You're right.

Jexx21
06-14-2014, 11:10 AM
I have an idea for a Ubi game, not AC though:

Far Cry 5: You play as a female who is backpacking through Eastern Europe/Asia Minor with some friends, around the Black Sea (both male and female) and you're kidnapped in the night. You're tied up to a post by yourself when you come to, and you work your way free of the restraints, and you go around looking for your friends, when you go to cut one of your friends free a woman dressed as a warrior stops and attacks you. You fight back, but others arrive and you're overwhelmed. You are taken to the leader of this group, and they reveal that they are an all woman-group of warriors, the Amazons, and want you to become one.


It's in red I want to talk about it. come here tlakers

jayjay275
06-14-2014, 11:10 AM
that's actually why they would relegate a female character to Comet.

Comet is obviously going to get less marketing and a female character would be better for it. Either Shao Jun or a Connor/Aveline game.
Yup, as they would've revealed it at E3, but nope.

You're right.
*Pulls a smug face"

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-14-2014, 11:20 AM
Then cry about women not being represented in games. Honestly, they don't need to be. If theres a female assassin in the next game, fine. That's the story they want to tell. But if they make it just because they want to appease guys like you and women, (when not all women are feminists or care) then that'd just be depressing. If anything you're just trying to censor Ubi.

Why do you want a female character? Don't say you want them to be represented. Don't say you just like it better. Don't say because thats what comes to your head whenever you make a character. Don't tell me because we haven't had one, when we have. Don't tell me because there's too many dudes. Really just tell my why in anyway it would be better.

It doesn't matter what reasons I'd give you, you'd just tell me to not use that reason and continue to ask.

Regardless, I never said it would be BETTER. The whole point is that men and women should be equal and thus equally be represented in media as the heroes they both can be. And dear god, please READ what I say -- I've stated numerous times that shoehorning a woman in would probably result in reduced quality. Ubisoft should FEEL like writing women. People are right when they say it's Ubi's game, they can do what they want. what I'm saying is that they should want to anyway and if they DON'T, I have to question why not.

Pantherine
06-14-2014, 11:27 AM
Make your own game if you want to boss Ubisoft around, you don't own the place. :rolleyes:

jayjay275
06-14-2014, 11:33 AM
If Ubisoft want to have a male protagonist then why not? You don't see that many action movies with a woman as the main protagonist do you, so why do people act as if this is a bad thing?

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-14-2014, 11:40 AM
I have an idea for a Ubi game, not AC though:

Far Cry 5: You play as a female who is backpacking through Eastern Europe/Asia Minor with some friends, around the Black Sea (both male and female) and you're kidnapped in the night. You're tied up to a post by yourself when you come to, and you work your way free of the restraints, and you go around looking for your friends, when you go to cut one of your friends free a woman dressed as a warrior stops and attacks you. You fight back, but others arrive and you're overwhelmed. You are taken to the leader of this group, and they reveal that they are an all woman-group of warriors, the Amazons, and want you to become one.

That's actually really cool sounding. Would the Amazons (maybe they should be a fictional group based on the Amazons?) like...hate men? Or would there be a few men... I ask because how do they reproduce? Or... is it comprised of women of various races that have become recruited like they're trying to recruit you?

I like the backpacking angle. I think it could be used as inventory storage in the game as well. Like after you escape imprisonment, you find your backpack. Oh no... how about instead, when you and your friends are attacked, your backpack is like... I don't know, knocked off a ledge or otherwise disposed of during the chaos. When you wake up, the warriors kill one of your friends... you then take the dead friend's backpack and once you're a somewhat good distance from the warrior camp, you check inside to see what''s in it.

Whoops, I realize you mentioned being kidnapped in the night -- for some reason I was picturing them backpacking and then being ambushed and then knocked unconscious before being dragged to the warrior camp.

What were you thinking in terms of how everything pans out? Like is the goal to save all your friends or would that just be an initial goal and catalyst that eventually kickstarts other things as well?

Here are some other thoughts:

Far Cry 3 had outposts and I'm sure Far Cry 4 will something that is essentially the same. It's a cool feature. I think it'd be cool if your friends were dragged off and separated by being taken to different outposts that the warriors have. So you attack these camps or use stealth to get in. In order to complete a Camp, you have to take out the enemies and rescue your friend. You will be able to find new supplies there and all that good stuff. The friend meanwhile goes on to help you and the rest of your rescued group.

Truth be told, I never had the chance to play Far Cry 3 so I'm not sure about the finer points of gameplay elements in it. I know there are plenty of animals to hunt but what about enemies... are there roving enemies that randomly roam the land or are they situated in more specific like...zones? I assume there were roaming enemies. If not, that should be in FC5.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-14-2014, 11:47 AM
If Ubisoft want to have a male protagonist then why not? You don't see that many action movies with a woman as the main protagonist do you, so why do people act as if this is a bad thing?

Oh my god. It's not good that movies don't feature women either! Can you really not see how messed up that is? Like, just take a step back and read what you wrote.

"You don't see that many action movies with a woman as the main protagonist do you, so why do people act as if this is a bad thing?" Do you not see the issue here?

That kind of thought is basically saying this

"I have no perspective" - every dude ever

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 11:48 AM
That's actually really cool sounding. Would the Amazons (maybe they should be a fictional group based on the Amazons?) like...hate men? Or would there be a few men... I ask because how do they reproduce?

They keep men as sex slaves.

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 11:55 AM
It doesn't matter what reasons I'd give you, you'd just tell me to not use that reason and continue to ask.

Regardless, I never said it would be BETTER. The whole point is that men and women should be equal and thus equally be represented in media as the heroes they both can be. And dear god, please READ what I say -- I've stated numerous times that shoehorning a woman in would probably result in reduced quality. Ubisoft should FEEL like writing women. People are right when they say it's Ubi's game, they can do what they want. what I'm saying is that they should want to anyway and if they DON'T, I have to question why not.

I've never heard a reason from you besides the ones you stated, so I doubt you have a different reason anyway. Why should Ubi want to? Maybe they dont want to because they think it'll affect the story. Also, you don't have to ask why not.

jayjay275
06-14-2014, 11:56 AM
Oh my god. It's not good that movies don't feature women either! Can you really not see how messed up that is? Like, just take a step back and read what you wrote.

"You don't see that many action movies with a woman as the main protagonist do you, so why do people act as if this is a bad thing?" Do you not see the issue here?

That kind of thought is basically saying this

"I have no perspective" - every dude ever

No, my point is pretty simple. People always find a fault about something, when it doesn't matter at all. It is a video game, and why do female assassins matter when you'll be playing as Arno?

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 11:56 AM
Oh my god. It's not good that movies don't feature women either! Can you really not see how messed up that is? Like, just take a step back and read what you wrote.

"You don't see that many action movies with a woman as the main protagonist do you, so why do people act as if this is a bad thing?" Do you not see the issue here?

That kind of thought is basically saying this

"I have no perspective" - the person who said^

Fixed that for you. You're generalizing again.

RinoTheBouncer
06-14-2014, 12:00 PM
Oh my god. It's not good that movies don't feature women either! Can you really not see how messed up that is? Like, just take a step back and read what you wrote.

"You don't see that many action movies with a woman as the main protagonist do you, so why do people act as if this is a bad thing?" Do you not see the issue here?

That kind of thought is basically saying this

"I have no perspective" - every dude ever

Itís not really messed up. I think you guys understand equality completely the wrong way. Equality doesnít necessarily have to mean that whatever the guy does, the girl must do. Equality usually means equal in rights, like in a court of law, with respect, with job opportunities, with inheritance, with justice but that doesnít mean that women have to be part of every sector in society. I mean letís be realistic, there are some jobs where women are much better at then men and vice versa, and Iím not saying a woman should stay in the kitchen, cook and have babies only but Iím saying that there are jobs or things that are more suitable for men than they are for women or stuff that are known not to involve as many women as they do for men.

Most women actually enjoy the fact that theyíre the damsels in distress and waiting for the hero to save them. A lot of them arenít really interested in being their own heroes. Itís the move on the media nowadays of and what singers are trying to say with their new music videos when they make women empowerment feel like every woman should shoot her husband in the head and be ďfree" from the non existent confinement.

With video games, there ARE many video games starring female protagonists and theyíre successful franchises but that doesnít mean each franchise is obliged to show men and women as protagonist and they really donít have to explain themselves. Did anybody have a problem with Lara Croft? nobody does. Everybody loves her and the franchise is making itís 10th installment now and itís still starring a female. Itís only in TR: The Angel of Darkness that they introduced a male companion whom we played as, for two short levels and nobody seemed to call TR and Eidos, racists. But they have a vision and the vision worked. That doesnít mean each other franchise must create as many female protagonist as they did for males.

Iím sure that a game that talks about history understands very well that in history, societyís look at women was different from what it is today and thus the role of women in society was completely different from what it is today. So if you see women in the army these days, that doesnít mean that there were as many women with notable heroic roles in history.

Another case is why canít they show a bisexual Assassin (I didnít say gay, because the Animus wonít work for someone who has no children) or a gay Assassin whom at some point had a son? are all gay and bisexual men considered soft and sissy and all they care about is fashion and looking ďfabulousĒ and incapable of being heroes? I think thatís another thing that needs to be acknowledged but Iím sure most guys here will be against it cause they find it more entertaining to see Ezio kissing a girl or Aveline perhaps kissing Connor than seeing Altair and Malik making out. So yeah, thereís as much bias and double standards towards gay and bisexual people as those youíre complaining about regarding women.

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 12:02 PM
It’s not really messed up. I think you guys understand equality completely the wrong way. Equality doesn’t necessarily have to mean that whatever the guy does, the girl must do. Equality usually means equal in rights, like in a court of law, with respect, with job opportunities, with inheritance, with justice but that doesn’t mean that women have to be part of every sector in society. I mean let’s be realistic, there are some jobs where women are much better at then men and vice versa, and I’m not saying a woman should stay in the kitchen, cook and have babies only but I’m saying that there are jobs or things that are more suitable for men than they are for women or stuff that are known not to involve as many women as they do for men.

Most women actually enjoy the fact that they’re the damsels in distress and waiting for the hero to save them. A lot of them aren’t really interested in being their own heroes. It’s the move on the media nowadays of and what singers are trying to say with their new music videos when they make women empowerment feel like every woman should shoot her husband in the head and be “free" from the non existent confinement.

With video games, there ARE many video games starring female protagonists and they’re successful franchises but that doesn’t mean each franchise is obliged to show men and women as protagonist and they really don’t have to explain themselves. Did anybody have a problem with Lara Croft? nobody does. Everybody loves her and the franchise is making it’s 10th installment now and it’s still starring a female. It’s only in TR: The Angel of Darkness that they introduced a male companion whom we played as, for two short levels and nobody seemed to call TR and Eidos, racists. But they have a vision and the vision worked. That doesn’t mean each other franchise must create as many female protagonist as they did for males.

I’m sure that a game that talks about history understands very well that in history, society’s look at women was different from what it is today and thus the role of women in society was completely different from what it is today. So if you see women in the army these days, that doesn’t mean that there were as many women with notable heroic roles in history.

Christ, this. People are just trying to force their views.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 12:06 PM
Quite. I've seen many more female receptionists, secretaries and general jobs of that type than male ones. Maybe I should feel repressed and rile against this misrepresentation.

http://i.imgur.com/9pCGuQL.png

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-14-2014, 12:06 PM
I've never heard a reason from you besides the ones you stated, so I doubt you have a different reason anyway. Why should Ubi want to? Maybe they dont want to because they think it'll affect the story. Also, you don't have to ask why not.

You don't get it -- how would having a female protag change a story that is still being developed? The story during development is in flux, they could choose to write a story about a girl and have a cool and compelling story if they wanted to. They're free not to and to continue writing about men but why? Why would that be all they want to write about?


No, my point is pretty simple. People always find a fault about something, when it doesn't matter at all. It is a video game, and why do female assassins matter when you'll be playing as Arno?

If you don't think media influences culture and society, you're pretty naive. Again -- this isn't about Unity. I don't want them to CHANGE Unity. I don't want them to include a female skin for co-op because you'll be Arno so you would never even see the female skin on yourself anyway. This is about the future of AC... upcoming games. Altair, Ezio, Connor, Edward, Adewale, Haytham, and now Arno. I think it's time we get a female assassin (or 6) on a console after Unity.

RinoTheBouncer
06-14-2014, 12:08 PM
Christ, this. People are just trying to force their views.

Thank you!

A while back I made a thread about having a homosexual/bisexual Assassin and people were like “why make a whole game just to show a bisexual protagonist? what’s the point? the story has to require it first and not just add a bisexual assassin for the sake of it” and now those people are complaining about equality and not having enough females. Well, if you want equality then be equal towards all parts of society not just what’s sexy enough for you.

People are really just trying to force their views and just wanna complain about every little details in a game like Far Cry 4’s “racist” artwork. So what if it was racist? it’s a story. Wasn’t “12 Years A Slave” a movie about slavery? why can’t there be a video game depicting that subject?

ze_topazio
06-14-2014, 12:08 PM
They keep men as sex slaves.

That's sexist, oh wait, that's men being oppressed, in that case is fine. :cool:


That Amazon thing sounds like a great idea for a game, maybe for Tomb Raider, because Far Cry is a fps and I don't like fpss.

jayjay275
06-14-2014, 12:10 PM
If you don't think media influences culture and society, you're pretty naive. Again -- this isn't about Unity. I don't want them to CHANGE Unity. I don't want them to include a female skin for co-op because you'll be Arno so you would never even see the female skin on yourself anyway. This is about the future of AC... upcoming games. Altair, Ezio, Connor, Edward, Adewale, Haytham, and now Arno. I think it's time we get a female assassin (or 6) on a console after Unity.

When did I say media didn't influence culture and society? I said people overreact to such little things when there are more important matters. Can you please explain as to why you want a female protagonist?

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 12:11 PM
You don't get it -- how would having a female protag change a story that is still being developed? The story during development is in flux, they could choose to write a story about a girl and have a cool and compelling story if they wanted to. They're free not to and to continue writing about men but why? Why would that be all they want to write about?



If you don't think media influences culture and society, you're pretty naive. Again -- this isn't about Unity. I don't want them to CHANGE Unity. I don't want them to include a female skin for co-op because you'll be Arno so you would never even see the female skin on yourself anyway. This is about the future of AC... upcoming games. Altair, Ezio, Connor, Edward, Adewale, Haytham, and now Arno. I think it's time we get a female assassin (or 6) on a console after Unity.

It isn't. They already made Aveline. Maybe they'll make a female for the next one. Nobody knows. This entire thread is pointless. Also, I dont think there's a time to have a female protagonist. If there is, fine, if there isn't, fine.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 12:11 PM
Yes. Anyone from ubi reading this, hire Jexx and get to it!


That's sexist, oh wait, that's men being oppressed, in that case is fine. :cool:

I know you are joking, but lemme add one thing. Because an artist adds something in his work doesn't mean he personally supports this and should be vilified. I don't think any game showing male or female sexual slavery instantly means the devs must be supporting that ****. It all depends on how it is portrayed. Pretty sure the director of Twelve years a slave didn't support slavery himself, for example.


because Far Cry is a fps and I don't like fpss.

Gameist

RinoTheBouncer
06-14-2014, 12:12 PM
That's sexist, oh wait, that's men being oppressed, in that case is fine. :cool:

I agree. There’s too much inequality in equality:

https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/p417x417/902717_10203034976262732_1961170091983331885_o.jpg

jayjay275
06-14-2014, 12:16 PM
Thank you!
People are really just trying to force their views and just wanna complain about every little details in a game like Far Cry 4’s “racist” artwork. So what if it was racist? it’s a story. Wasn’t “12 Years A Slave” a movie about slavery? why can’t there be a video game depicting that subject?

This, so much.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 12:20 PM
^Just want to point out that imo, being "proud" of being a black is as stupid as being proud of being white, or any colour for that matter. What's there to be proud of in what colour you have?

And regarding being proud of being gay; Gay pride rallys normally have the message that gays have the right to live equally, that there is nothing wrong with it. Straight pride rallys (yes those are a thing) normally consist of insulting gays and saying God wanted this heathens! There was a straight pride rally somewhere in a Scandinavian country recently and it essentially consisted of gaybashing, not straight pride per se. So I'm not sure that one is completely right.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 12:23 PM
I liked them..

[walks away]

tasteless peasant

..I don't get banned for saying that do I? Plesh I was only joking!!!!!!


I didn't like the Tomb Raider films either (actually hated them)

friends 5eva

RinoTheBouncer
06-14-2014, 12:25 PM
This, so much.

Thank you :)


^Just want to point out that imo, being "proud" of being a black is as stupid as being proud of being white, or any colour for that matter. What's there to be proud of in what colour you have?

And regarding being proud of being gay; Gay pride rallys normally have the message that gays have the right to live equally, that there is nothing wrong with it. Straight pride rallys (yes those are a thing) normally consist of insulting gays and saying God wanted this heathens! There was a straight pride rally somewhere in a Scandinavian country recently and it essentially consisted of gaybashing, not straight pride per se. So I'm not sure that one is completely right.

I agree with one thing you said “what is there to be proud of?” exactly! the extraordinary is in what we do, not what color we are or what is our gender or what type of partner do we choose to date. That I agree with, completely. However, the image I posted is merely metaphorical of how a the statement is not accepted from people while it’s welcomed from others and saying ‘I’m proud to be straight" doesn’t really have to be accompanied by homophobic slurs, if some people do that, as you said, then they’re delivering the message in a completely wrong way.

What I mean is society is full of double standards.

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 12:26 PM
^Just want to point out that imo, being "proud" of being a black is as stupid as being proud of being white, or any colour for that matter. What's there to be proud of in what colour you have?

And regarding being proud of being gay; Gay pride rallys normally have the message that gays have the right to live equally, that there is nothing wrong with it. Straight pride rallys (yes those are a thing) normally consist of insulting gays and saying God wanted this heathens! There was a straight pride rally somewhere in a Scandinavian country recently and it essentially consisted of gaybashing, not straight pride per se. So I'm not sure that one is completely right.

People should be prideful of what they make themselves.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-14-2014, 12:29 PM
Most women actually enjoy the fact that they’re the damsels in distress and waiting for the hero to save them. A lot of them aren’t really interested in being their own heroes.

Wow dude. Just... wow. Now THAT is sexist.


It’s the move on the media nowadays of and what singers are trying to say with their new music videos when they make women empowerment feel like every woman should shoot her husband in the head and be “free" from the non existent confinement.

Erm... what... um. What music videos say to shoot their husbands in the head? See how you twist it and make women who want equality and to be treated with respect as the enemies? You're victimizing yourself and essentially going "oh if a woman wants to be treated equally, they must hate men and want to shoot their husbands in the head."


With video games, there ARE many video games starring female protagonists and they’re successful franchises but that doesn’t mean each franchise is obliged to show men and women as protagonist and they really don’t have to explain themselves. Did anybody have a problem with Lara Croft? nobody does. Everybody loves her and the franchise is making it’s 10th installment now and it’s still starring a female. It’s only in TR: The Angel of Darkness that they introduced a male companion whom we played as, for two short levels and nobody seemed to call TR and Eidos, racists. But they have a vision and the vision worked. That doesn’t mean each other franchise must create as many female protagonist as they did for males.

Lara Croft has long been considered simply eye candy and design for the first 8 games was awful. Impractical clothing, impossibly small waist, big boobs, etc. Yet another example of impossible beauty standards that women have to face way more often than men. Yes, men do suffer from that a bit but they're not constantly reminded of it day in and day out. The NEW Lara Croft design on the other hand is significantly better. She has more practical clothing for the kind of stuff she does, her body type is realistic, etc.


I’m sure that a game that talks about history understands very well that in history, society’s look at women was different from what it is today and thus the role of women in society was completely different from what it is today. So if you see women in the army these days, that doesn’t mean that there were as many women with notable heroic roles in history.

But there were even despite the patriarchal societies that the world has pretty much had for a loooong time (and still has)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_I

Hell, Queen Beth up there was a QUEEN and ruled an entire nation despite sentiments at the time basically saying "oh she can't possibly do this, she's a woman! she MUST get married so a king can rule!"

Besides... Aveline was not only female but also black and was able to operate. Shao Jun is a female, Itlani and Amunet -- two of the statues of Assassins from different points in history in the Villa Auditore were female, you could train female assassins in Brotherhood and Revelations...

Most men throughout history weren't "heroes" either, not in the way we depict them. It's just like how actual battles in war don't work like a CoD game... most soldiers, even the most decorated and bada s s do not mow through enemy soldiers like it was nothing.


Another case is why can’t they show a bisexual Assassin (I didn’t say gay, because the Animus won’t work for someone who has no children) or a gay Assassin whom at some point had a son? are all gay and bisexual men considered soft and sissy and all they care about is fashion and looking “fabulous” and incapable of being heroes? I think that’s another thing that needs to be acknowledged but I’m sure most guys here will be against it cause they find it more entertaining to see Ezio kissing a girl or Aveline perhaps kissing Connor than seeing Altair and Malik making out. So yeah, there’s as much bias and double standards towards gay and bisexual people as those you’re complaining about regarding women.

He doesn't need to actually be interested in women to father a child. Simply having sex with someone, especially if it was just to have a kid doesn't necessarily mean they're bi but yes, that becomes rather specific and would be kind of hard to fit into exposition "oh he's gay... but he had a kid but he's not bi because..."

So yeah, bisexual Assassin. I'm for it. Actually gay men are just like hetero men (some are sissies, some are tough, some are jerks, some are kind, etc.)

Most guys might prefer to see a hetero relationship but sane guys wouldn't care, gays would appreciate seeing a gay protag, lots of tumblrites would probably implode as their fanfics for that game would be more legitimate, etc. I on't care if it makes some people uncomfortable. People were (and still are in some places) uncomfortable seeing an interracial couple so I don't really have time to give a sh*t about backwards thinking folks...

Edit: Dude Rino -- you really don't know me. I would be ALL for a male bisexual Assassin, a female hetero assassin, a female bisexual Assassin, and so on. Heck, Leonardo was already portrayed as gay so why the heck not?

ze_topazio
06-14-2014, 12:33 PM
Yes. Anyone from ubi reading this, hire Jexx and get to it!

I approve :D




I know you are joking, but lemme add one thing. Because an artist adds something in his work doesn't mean he personally supports this and should be vilified. I don't think any game showing male or female sexual slavery instantly means the devs must be supporting that ****. It all depends on how it is portrayed. Pretty sure the director of Twelve years a slave didn't support slavery himself, for example.

I know, but more than often, games/movies/books, etc... are accused of racism, sexism, xenophobia, etc... just because they are portraying those themes, sadly more than often the people fighting for justice tend to be equally ignorant as the people they are fighting against.



Gameist

First person cameras confuse me, what do you want me to say.



I agree. Thereís too much inequality in equality:

Long pic was here

Unfortunately the world is full of those contradictions.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 12:33 PM
People should be prideful of what they make themselves.

EEYUP.

Its like.. a guy comes up to you and say hey! I'm proud of having two hands!

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 12:34 PM
Wow dude. Just... wow. Now THAT is sexist.



Erm... what... um. What music videos say to shoot their husbands in the head? See how you twist it and make women who want equality and to be treated with respect as the enemies? You're victimizing yourself and essentially going "oh if a woman wants to be treated equally, they must hate men and want to shoot their husbands in the head."



Lara Croft has long been considered simply eye candy and design for the first 8 games was awful. Impractical clothing, impossibly small waist, big boobs, etc. Yet another example of impossible beauty standards that women have to face way more often than men. Yes, men do suffer from that a bit but they're not constantly reminded of it day in and day out. The NEW Lara Croft design on the other hand is significantly better. She has more practical clothing for the kind of stuff she does, her body type is realistic, etc.



But there were even despite the patriarchal societies that the world has pretty much had for a loooong time (and still has)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_I

Hell, Queen Beth up there was a QUEEN and ruled an entire nation despite sentiments at the time basically saying "oh she can't possibly do this, she's a woman! she MUST get married so a king can rule!"

Besides... Aveline was not only female but also black and was able to operate. Shao Jun is a female, Itlani and Amunet -- two of the statues of Assassins from different points in history in the Villa Auditore were female, you could train female assassins in Brotherhood and Revelations...

Most men throughout history weren't "heroes" either, not in the way we depict them. It's just like how actual battles in war don't work like a CoD game... most soldiers, even the most decorated and bada s s do not mow through enemy soldiers like it was nothing.



He doesn't need to actually be interested in women to father a child. Simply having sex with someone, especially if it was just to have a kid doesn't necessarily mean they're bi but yes, that becomes rather specific and would be kind of hard to fit into exposition "oh he's gay... but he had a kid but he's not bi because..."

So yeah, bisexual Assassin. I'm for it. Actually gay men are just like hetero men (some are sissies, some are tough, some are jerks, some are kind, etc.)

Most guys might prefer to see a hetero relationship but sane guys wouldn't care, gays would appreciate seeing a gay protag, lots of tumblrites would probably implode as their fanfics for that game would be more legitimate, etc. I on't care if it makes some people uncomfortable. People were (and still are in some places) uncomfortable seeing an interracial couple so I don't really have time to give a sh*t about backwards thinking folks...

Then you're no better than them.

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 12:37 PM
EEYUP.

Its like.. a guy comes up to you and say hey! I'm proud of having two hands!

I'm proud of having eyes. Get on my level.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 12:40 PM
First person cameras confuse me, what do you want me to say.

Hail Hydra


Unfortunately the world is full of those contradictions.

Yeah, there was a video I posted somewhere yesterday. An experiment. First a woman was being mistreated by a man, and plenty of people came up to help her. Next the roles were reversed, the woman was mistreating the man. People were just standing around and smirking.

GENDER EQUALITY FO YA


I'm proud of having eyes. Get on my level.

I'm proud of having a ...well nevermind.

ze_topazio
06-14-2014, 12:41 PM
Lara Croft has long been considered simply eye candy and design for the first 8 games was awful. Impractical clothing, impossibly small waist, big boobs, etc. Yet another example of impossible beauty standards that women have to face way more often than men. Yes, men do suffer from that a bit but they're not constantly reminded of it day in and day out. The NEW Lara Croft design on the other hand is significantly better. She has more practical clothing for the kind of stuff she does, her body type is realistic, etc.

Yet when I leave my house and walk on the streets I see bazillions of women dressed with that style of "impractical" clothes, short shorts and skirts, tight clothes, bare bellies, shirts with huge cleavages, some of them with big boobs because those actually exist in real life too, games introduce female characters dressed with clothes similar to the ones real women use and are automatically accused of sexualization.

GunnerGalactico
06-14-2014, 12:45 PM
Itís not really messed up. I think you guys understand equality completely the wrong way. Equality doesnít necessarily have to mean that whatever the guy does, the girl must do. Equality usually means equal in rights, like in a court of law, with respect, with job opportunities, with inheritance, with justice but that doesnít mean that women have to be part of every sector in society. I mean letís be realistic, there are some jobs where women are much better at then men and vice versa, and Iím not saying a woman should stay in the kitchen, cook and have babies only but Iím saying that there are jobs or things that are more suitable for men than they are for women or stuff that are known not to involve as many women as they do for men.

Most women actually enjoy the fact that theyíre the damsels in distress and waiting for the hero to save them. A lot of them arenít really interested in being their own heroes. Itís the move on the media nowadays of and what singers are trying to say with their new music videos when they make women empowerment feel like every woman should shoot her husband in the head and be ďfree" from the non existent confinement.

With video games, there ARE many video games starring female protagonists and theyíre successful franchises but that doesnít mean each franchise is obliged to show men and women as protagonist and they really donít have to explain themselves. Did anybody have a problem with Lara Croft? nobody does. Everybody loves her and the franchise is making itís 10th installment now and itís still starring a female. Itís only in TR: The Angel of Darkness that they introduced a male companion whom we played as, for two short levels and nobody seemed to call TR and Eidos, racists. But they have a vision and the vision worked. That doesnít mean each other franchise must create as many female protagonist as they did for males.

Iím sure that a game that talks about history understands very well that in history, societyís look at women was different from what it is today and thus the role of women in society was completely different from what it is today. So if you see women in the army these days, that doesnít mean that there were as many women with notable heroic roles in history.

Another case is why canít they show a bisexual Assassin (I didnít say gay, because the Animus wonít work for someone who has no children) or a gay Assassin whom at some point had a son? are all gay and bisexual men considered soft and sissy and all they care about is fashion and looking ďfabulousĒ and incapable of being heroes? I think thatís another thing that needs to be acknowledged but Iím sure most guys here will be against it cause they find it more entertaining to see Ezio kissing a girl or Aveline perhaps kissing Connor than seeing Altair and Malik making out. So yeah, thereís as much bias and double standards towards gay and bisexual people as those youíre complaining about regarding women.

http://media2.giphy.com/media/ko10VijRk4oi4/giphy.gif

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 12:45 PM
Yet when I leave my house and walk on the streets I see bazillions of women dressed with that style of "impractical" clothes, short shorts and skirts, tight clothes, bare bellies, shirts with huge cleavages, some of them with big boobs because those actually exist in real life too, games introduce female characters dressed with clothes similar to the ones real women use and are automatically accused of sexualization.

But they don't go adventuring wearing stuff like that do they? That was the point.

I googled so many female real life adventurers. Sadly non of them were wearing revealing clothes. Needles to say my ***** was disappointed. :(

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-14-2014, 12:46 PM
Yet when I leave my house and walk on the streets I see bazillions of women dressed with that style of "impractical" clothes, short shorts and skirts, tight clothes, bare bellies, shirts with huge cleavages, some of them with big boobs because those actually exist in real life too, games introduce female characters dressed with clothes similar to the ones real women use and are automatically accused of sexualization.

Oh yes and all of them are crawling around, fighting, rolling, dodging, being shot at, setting off traps, and more during their every day activities. It's not that the outfit is overly sexual, women can wear whatever they want... it becomes an issue when a male character who has a similar role is dressed one way and then a female character is dressed another. I don't remember seeing Indiana Jones or Nathan Drake wearing shorts...

http://i.imgur.com/nfJnk.pnghttp://www.1zoom.net/big2/87/159525-sepik.jpg?m=1

ze_topazio
06-14-2014, 12:48 PM
Yeah, there was a video I posted somewhere yesterday. An experiment. First a woman was being mistreated by a man, and plenty of people came up to help her. Next the roles were reversed, the woman was mistreating the man. People were just standing around and smirking.

GENDER EQUALITY FO YA

I have to admit that if i saw a Man mistreating a Woman i would jump to help the lady but if i saw a Woman mistreating a Man i would just think "lol wimp".

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 12:49 PM
Oh yes and all of them are crawling around, fighting, rolling, dodging, being shot at, setting off traps, and more during their every day activities. It's not that the outfit is overly sexual, women can wear whatever they want... it becomes an issue when a male character who has a similar role is dressed one way and then a female character is dressed another. I don't remember seeing Indiana Jones or Nathan Drake wearing shorts...

Indiana Jones did have his chest exposed (somewhat) though. That's male sexualization. Going by how much our female forum members swoon over shirtless assassins :p

And there are plenty of short-wearing men of Discovery Channel, although admittedly not so short shorts that they're hardly bigger than an underwear.

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 12:49 PM
But they don't go adventuring wearing stuff like that do they? That was the point.

I googled so many female real life adventurers. Sadly non of them were wearing revealing clothes. Needles to say my ***** was disappointed. :(

The old outfit is literally the new besides booty shorts. I don't disagree that it's impractical but the girls at my school will take any opportunity to wear them, just saying.

GunnerGalactico
06-14-2014, 12:50 PM
I'm proud of having eyes. Get on my level.

I'm proud of having long hair... does that make me vain and self-centred? :rolleyes:

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 12:52 PM
Oh yes and all of them are crawling around, fighting, rolling, dodging, being shot at, setting off traps, and more during their every day activities. It's not that the outfit is overly sexual, women can wear whatever they want... it becomes an issue when a male character who has a similar role is dressed one way and then a female character is dressed another. I don't remember seeing Indiana Jones or Nathan Drake wearing shorts...

http://i.imgur.com/nfJnk.pnghttp://www.1zoom.net/big2/87/159525-sepik.jpg?m=1

I don't think shorts are that attractive. Also I think for women they can still look at that picture of Nathan Drake and still be attracted to him. Same for Indy.

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 12:54 PM
I'm proud of having long hair... does that make me vain and self-centred :rolleyes:

I see your point. I never said it made you vain or self centered though. Also I think you're feeling more appreciation than pride.

ze_topazio
06-14-2014, 12:56 PM
Oh yes and all of them are crawling around, fighting, rolling, dodging, being shot at, setting off traps, and more during their every day activities. It's not that the outfit is overly sexual, women can wear whatever they want... it becomes an issue when a male character who has a similar role is dressed one way and then a female character is dressed another. I don't remember seeing Indiana Jones or Nathan Drake wearing shorts...

http://i.imgur.com/nfJnk.pnghttp://www.1zoom.net/big2/87/159525-sepik.jpg?m=1

How is this any less practical than what she wears on the most recent game? or what Nathan Drake or Indiana Jones wear?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/Lara_Croft.png


Of course men won't wear short shorts, it's not a traditional male vestment, but shirtless heroes are common and rather impractical.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 12:56 PM
The old outfit is literally the new besides booty shorts. I don't disagree that it's impractical but the girls at my school will take any opportunity to wear them, just saying.

Ofcourse. But would they wear the while rock climbing for example?

Schoolgirls are stupid though, their opinions shouldn't be counted. Omg that was sexist :(


How is this any less practical than what she wears on the most recent game? or what Nathan Drake or Indiana Jones wear?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/Lara_Croft.png

Mostly in that her thighs would be full of cuts and bruises and she'd have a hard time moving because the short is so tight and it's wedged in deep between ..well you get the point.

Shorts are practical but they are longer. Upto the knees or somewhere about there. There is a reason these are called booty shorts :rolleyes:

RinoTheBouncer
06-14-2014, 12:57 PM
Wow dude. Just... wow. Now THAT is sexist.

Why is telling the truth, sexist? for example, saying all black people are gangsters is racist because theyíre not all, but saying that a lot of black people are is not because in reality, you see a lot of black gangsters. Saying all muslims are terrorists and disrespecting a muslim just because another muslim was a terrorist is racist and discriminative but to say that there are muslim terrorists around the world is not, because there are muslims who tailored their religion in a way to justify their killer instincts and Iím a muslim, myself and I never killed anyone but I acknowledge that some muslims did some sh*t like that.

And regarding women, yes, a lot of women want the knight in shinning armor to sweep them off their feet and thatís not something negative or derogatory, itís beautiful and Iím not saying all of them are this way, because many others are obviously not.


Erm... what... um. What music videos say to shoot their husbands in the head? See how you twist it and make women who want equality and to be treated with respect as the enemies? You're victimizing yourself and essentially going "oh if a woman wants to be treated equally, they must hate men and want to shoot their husbands in the head."

Donít take what I said literally, but from Katy Perry to Lady Gaga to even Madonna (whom I love so much), their videos or performances about women empowerment are ok with showing the woman beating the crap out of her cheating boyfriend..etc. but lets say Ricky Martin shoots his girlfriend in the head for cheating on him in a music video, or beats her with some kung fu moves or whatever, would the reception be the same? hell no. The former is cheered for and the latter is begrudged.


Lara Croft has long been considered simply eye candy and design for the first 8 games was awful. Impractical clothing, impossibly small waist, big boobs, etc. Yet another example of impossible beauty standards that women have to face way more often than men. Yes, men do suffer from that a bit but they're not constantly reminded of it day in and day out. The NEW Lara Croft design on the other hand is significantly better. She has more practical clothing for the kind of stuff she does, her body type is realistic, etc.

Sheís been considered eye candy and that isnít really something wrong. Look at magazines everywhere, everybodyís photoshopped to look impossibly fit and the women who do it are aware of it and still choose to do that regardless of whether theyíre desperately seeking the money theyíll get paid or not. So I donít see showing super sexy female character is a negative thing. Girls just have to realize that they should have self confidence and that those people on the magazines are enhanced digitally to look like that and they shouldnít starve themselves to look as thin and perfect, because thereís no such thing in reality.


But there were even despite the patriarchal societies that the world has pretty much had for a loooong time (and still has)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_I

Hell, Queen Beth up there was a QUEEN and ruled an entire nation despite sentiments at the time basically saying "oh she can't possibly do this, she's a woman! she MUST get married so a king can rule!"

Besides... Aveline was not only female but also black and was able to operate. Shao Jun is a female, Itlani and Amunet -- two of the statues of Assassins from different points in history in the Villa Auditore were female, you could train female assassins in Brotherhood and Revelations...

Most men throughout history weren't "heroes" either, not in the way we depict them. It's just like how actual battles in war don't work like a CoD game... most soldiers, even the most decorated and bada s s do not mow through enemy soldiers like it was nothing.

There are notable women, of course from Queen Elizabeth to Cleopatra but was every woman in that time Queen Elizabeth or Cleopatra and I never said what a woman should or shouldnít do, because anybody can do anything but back in those times that Ubisoft are stuck with between 1200 to 1800, the role of the woman in society was significantly less than what became of it later.


He doesn't need to actually be interested in women to father a child. Simply having sex with someone, especially if it was just to have a kid doesn't necessarily mean they're bi but yes, that becomes rather specific and would be kind of hard to fit into exposition "oh he's gay... but he had a kid but he's not bi because..."

Yeah, thatís what Iím saying. I wasnít debating whether a gay man is able or unable to have child.


So yeah, bisexual Assassin. I'm for it. Actually gay men are just like hetero men (some are sissies, some are tough, some are jerks, some are kind, etc.)

I agree with you.


Most guys might prefer to see a hetero relationship but sane guys wouldn't care, gays would appreciate seeing a gay protag, lots of tumblrites would probably implode as their fanfics for that game would be more legitimate, etc. I on't care if it makes some people uncomfortable. People were (and still are in some places) uncomfortable seeing an interracial couple so I don't really have time to give a sh*t about backwards thinking folks...

Edit: Dude Rino -- you really don't know me. I would be ALL for a male bisexual Assassin, a female hetero assassin, a female bisexual Assassin, and so on. Heck, Leonardo was already portrayed as gay so why the heck not?

Well sadly video game developers wonít make a game a certain way because you and I and a few others are quite accepting to any type of protagonist, they want to sell. So itís driven by money as well, not just by principle. Mass Effect 3 portrayed homosexuality in a perfect, healthy and non-stereotypical way and I wish AC does that too but I wonít be boycotting the franchise for that.

GunnerGalactico
06-14-2014, 12:59 PM
I see your point. I never said it made you vain or self centered though. Also I think you're feeling more appreciation than pride.

No, no... I get what you meant, I was just being sarcastic :p

I'm just tired of all the arguments about gender inequality and other social issues that are being discussed on this thread... it's just pointless.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-14-2014, 01:00 PM
^Indiana Jones did have his chest exposed (somewhat) though. That's male sexualization. Going by how much our female forum members swoon over shirtless assassins :p

haha and the Prince was literally stripped of all of his clothes in Sands of Time.

Actually, Indy goes completely shirtless for a scene or two in Temple of Doom but at least that one makes sense with the plot. Lara Croft's short shorts on the other hand...

Also... to be clear. It's not revealing clothes that are inherently bad. It's just when the male counterparts have no such thing.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111153050/3702805-4972693279-71977.jpg
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120207050805/marvel_dc/images/f/f6/Power_Girl_0032.jpg

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-most-ridiculously-sexist-superhero-costumes/

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 01:00 PM
How is this any less practical than what she wears on the most recent game? or what Nathan Drake or Indiana Jones wear?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/Lara_Croft.png

Mostly in that her thighs would be full of cuts and bruises and she'd have a hard time moving because the short is so tight and it's wedged in deep between ..well you get the point.

Shorts are practical but they are longer. Upto the knees or somewhere about there. There is a reason these are called booty shorts :rolleyes:

rprkjj
06-14-2014, 01:01 PM
Ofcourse. But would they wear the while rock climbing for example?

Schoolgirls are stupid though, their opinions shouldn't be counted. Omg that was sexist :(



Mostly in that her thighs would be full of cuts and bruises and she'd have a hard time moving because the short is so tight and it's wedged in deep between ..well you get the point.

Shorts are practical but they are longer. Upto the knees or somewhere about there. There is a reason these are called booty shorts :rolleyes:

I will say most school girls I know are stupid. Not all though.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 01:07 PM
Yes, Temple of Doom.. the worst Indy movie. Hated how they did the Hindi dialogs, as if they were taught by a school kid.

ze_topazio
06-14-2014, 01:08 PM
I got to admit I don't know much about the mobility restrictions of booty shorts, i don't usually wear them.


To be fair, almost nobody, male or female, wants to see Clark Kent's hairy chest but there's a large group of people out there that want to see Power Girl's chest.



Yes, Temple of Doom.. the worst Indy movie. Hated how they did the Hindi dialogs, as if they were taught by a school kid.

http://thecrashpadofacrimoniousramblings.files.wordpress. com/2012/06/short-round-vs-chewie-undercard-20080521042824447-000.jpg

Probably him.

GunnerGalactico
06-14-2014, 01:09 PM
Yes, Temple of Doom.. the worst Indy movie. Hated how they did the Hindi dialogs, as if they were taught by a school kid.

I hear you bro, and since when is monkey brains and boiled snakes part of Indian cuisine?

jayjay275
06-14-2014, 01:10 PM
When did I say media didn't influence culture and society? I said people overreact to such little things when there are more important matters. Can you please explain as to why you want a female protagonist?
No reply? Huh...

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 01:11 PM
I got to admit I don't know much about the mobility restrictions of booty shorts, i don't usually wear them.


To be fair, almost nobody, male or female, wants to see Clark Kent's hairy chest but there's a large group of people out there that want to see Power Girl's chest.

Silvermercy would, and she'd also microscopically analyze said hairy chest.

(I mean no offense, Silver, if you read this :p)

Well actually such an outfit fits (no pun intended) Powergirl, because she's the show-off kind of "I'll break yo face under my boots" kind of girl. Problem is nearly, scratch that, all female superheroes are dressed like strippers. Some variety would be good. http://i.imgur.com/326gJjM.png



http://thecrashpadofacrimoniousramblings.files.wordpress. com/2012/06/short-round-vs-chewie-undercard-20080521042824447-000.jpg

Probably him.

Actually the best part of the movie.

RinoTheBouncer
06-14-2014, 01:14 PM
http://media2.giphy.com/media/ko10VijRk4oi4/giphy.gif

Thank you very much :)

Jexx21
06-14-2014, 01:15 PM
That's actually really cool sounding. Would the Amazons (maybe they should be a fictional group based on the Amazons?) like...hate men? Or would there be a few men... I ask because how do they reproduce? Or... is it comprised of women of various races that have become recruited like they're trying to recruit you?

I like the backpacking angle. I think it could be used as inventory storage in the game as well. Like after you escape imprisonment, you find your backpack. Oh no... how about instead, when you and your friends are attacked, your backpack is like... I don't know, knocked off a ledge or otherwise disposed of during the chaos. When you wake up, the warriors kill one of your friends... you then take the dead friend's backpack and once you're a somewhat good distance from the warrior camp, you check inside to see what''s in it.

Whoops, I realize you mentioned being kidnapped in the night -- for some reason I was picturing them backpacking and then being ambushed and then knocked unconscious before being dragged to the warrior camp.

What were you thinking in terms of how everything pans out? Like is the goal to save all your friends or would that just be an initial goal and catalyst that eventually kickstarts other things as well?

Here are some other thoughts:

Far Cry 3 had outposts and I'm sure Far Cry 4 will something that is essentially the same. It's a cool feature. I think it'd be cool if your friends were dragged off and separated by being taken to different outposts that the warriors have. So you attack these camps or use stealth to get in. In order to complete a Camp, you have to take out the enemies and rescue your friend. You will be able to find new supplies there and all that good stuff. The friend meanwhile goes on to help you and the rest of your rescued group.

Truth be told, I never had the chance to play Far Cry 3 so I'm not sure about the finer points of gameplay elements in it. I know there are plenty of animals to hunt but what about enemies... are there roving enemies that randomly roam the land or are they situated in more specific like...zones? I assume there were roaming enemies. If not, that should be in FC5.

I was actually just making stuff up as I went along, didn't think that far ahead. Yea, they could be a fictional group based on the Amazons, but I already did some thinking on how the skill trees would work and stuff. In Far Cry 3, the skill trees were divided up by certain animals that were significant to the Rakyat culture: The Heron, The Shark, and The Spider. The Spider symbolized stealth and survival, The Shark symbolized assault and healing, and The Heron was for mobility and long range (http://farcry.wikia.com/wiki/Skills). The Amazon Warriors come from Greek Mythology, so I was thinking that their skills could be based off of the Gods. I was thinking Athena, Artemis, and Ares. Athena would take the place of the Heron, Artemis the Spider, and Ares the Shark.

I like the idea of this group being composed of recruited women. Artemis and Athena are both virgin Goddesses and while in myth the Amazons aren't virgins (I think that Pirate may have been right in saying that they kept male sex slaves, but it would be for reproduction), but I feel like if they're going to be some of the patron Gods of the Amazons it makes sense. I used backpacking as an excuse for a group of people to be in the area, but I do like the idea of using it for survival tools. I think a cool idea could be to have that you would just be perpetually on the run from the Amazons in this certain area around the Black Sea, and you eventually learn their ways and do actually become a part of them, perhaps because you realize they have some of your friends. I'm not sure yet, I'd have to do more research on various aspects.

There are enemies roaming around in areas where you haven't taken the outposts yet in Far Cry 3. I don't know how Far Cry 4 does it, I hope that they evolve upon the missions though.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 01:20 PM
I was actually just making stuff up as I went along, didn't think that far ahead. Yea, they could be a fictional group based on the Amazons, but I already did some thinking on how the skill trees would work and stuff. In Far Cry 3, the skill trees were divided up by certain animals that were significant to the Rakyat culture: The Heron, The Shark, and The Spider. The Spider symbolized stealth and survival, The Shark symbolized assault and healing, and The Heron was for mobility and long range (http://farcry.wikia.com/wiki/Skills). The Amazon Warriors come from Greek Mythology, so I was thinking that their skills could be based off of the Gods. I was thinking Athena, Artemis, and Ares. Athena would take the place of the Heron, Artemis the Spider, and Ares the Shark.

I like the idea of this group being composed of recruited women. Artemis and Athena are both virgin Goddesses and while in myth the Amazons aren't virgins (I think that Pirate may have been right in saying that they kept male sex slaves, but it would be for reproduction), but I feel like if they're going to be some of the patron Gods of the Amazons it makes sense. I used backpacking as an excuse for a group of people to be in the area, but I do like the idea of using it for survival tools. I think a cool idea could be to have that you would just be perpetually on the run from the Amazons in this certain area around the Black Sea, and you eventually learn their ways and do actually become a part of them, perhaps because you realize they have some of your friends. I'm not sure yet, I'd have to do more research on various aspects.

There are enemies roaming around in areas where you haven't taken the outposts yet in Far Cry 3. I don't know how Far Cry 4 does it, I hope that they evolve upon the missions though.

http://i.imgur.com/AdmgIgQ.png
You should not post you ideas in the open like this. We should copyright it asap! (yes I said we) http://i.imgur.com/9pCGuQL.png

AssassinHMS
06-14-2014, 01:23 PM
No reply? Huh...

Yes, I too want to know why he is interested in playing as a female Assassin. I bet it has little to do with the "Assassin" part. For equality's sake? Nah, no one fights for such things unless they're convenient and, for some reason, I don't think "he" is a she.

jayjay275
06-14-2014, 01:25 PM
Yes, I too want to know why he is interested in playing as a female Assassin. I bet it has little to do with the "Assassin" part. For equality's sake? Nah, no one fights for such things unless they're convinient and, for some reason, I don't think "he" is a she.

Indeed. I agree.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-14-2014, 01:35 PM
I don't think shorts are that attractive. Also I think for women they can still look at that picture of Nathan Drake and still be attracted to him. Same for Indy.

You don't, but booty shorts show off more skin and Lara designed that way to appeal to men who want to ogle her.

And sure, women can find Indy or Nathan Drake attractive. That's perfectly find. The new Lara Croft is way more attractive than the Lara Croft of the past, IMO.


Why is telling the truth, sexist? for example, saying all black people are gangsters is racist because they’re not all, but saying that a lot of black people are is not because in reality, you see a lot of black gangsters. Saying all muslims are terrorists and disrespecting a muslim just because another muslim was a terrorist is racist and discriminative but to say that there are muslim terrorists around the world is not, because there are muslims who tailored their religion in a way to justify their killer instincts and I’m a muslim, myself and I never killed anyone but I acknowledge that some muslims did some sh*t like that

The problem is that a lot of people use that to justify a hate or prejudice. For example, a lot of people may understand that not every black man is a gangster but "there are a lot of them so you better be careful." Or "of COURSE not all muslims are terrorists... but we just have to stop and search you because..we're totally not racially profiling though..."

I see what you're saying but a lot of people who say things like that are saying them because of a prejudice.


And regarding women, yes, a lot of women want the knight in shinning armor to sweep them off their feet and that’s not something negative or derogatory, it’s beautiful and I’m not saying all of them are this way, because many others are obviously not.

You said MOST women like to be damsels. I wouldn't say most but of course there are. I knew a girl in high school who wanted to be a stay at home housewife... one of her best friends and I talked about how weird it was. the problem with damsels in most works of fiction is that most aren't actual characters. They're just an object. The bad guy took the object and the good guy wants it back. They're a motivation for the hero and they are there to serve the hero's quest...


Don’t take what I said literally, but from Katy Perry to Lady Gaga to even Madonna (whom I love so much), their videos or performances about women empowerment are ok with showing the woman beating the crap out of her cheating boyfriend..etc. but lets say Ricky Martin shoots his girlfriend in the head for cheating on him in a music video, or beats her with some kung fu moves or whatever, would the reception be the same? hell no. The former is cheered for and the latter is begrudged.

I think it's because women are still the victim of abuse more often. It happens to men and someone posted a video about that...

But I think no one think anything of a girl slapping a man because men are taught that they're supposed to be tough but that women aren't so they feel scared to talk about any abuse they might receive from their spouse. Which means that sexism against women can actually harm men to because yeah... what guy wants to admit they were hurt by their girlfriend or wife or what guy wants to admit he was raped by a female? (and yes, that does happen but we rarely hear about it because most people think every man wants sex all the time)

Someone said they'd think "lol wimp" to a guy being harmed by a woman and that's wrong.


She’s been considered eye candy and that isn’t really something wrong. Look at magazines everywhere, everybody’s photoshopped to look impossibly fit and the women who do it are aware of it and still choose to do that regardless of whether they’re desperately seeking the money they’ll get paid or not. So I don’t see showing super sexy female character is a negative thing. Girls just have to realize that they should have self confidence and that those people on the magazines are enhanced digitally to look like that and they shouldn’t starve themselves to look as thin and perfect, because there’s no such thing in reality.

And yet men do nothing to HELP women achieve that. Hetero women typically do want to look attractive and the opposite is true... men want to be attractive to women. But when men are like "i like fake boobies!" and drool over the models and then say "she's fat" to a curvy girl because she doesn't match those photoshopped, airbrushed, impossibly thin models on magazines... well...

And to have video game characters, superheroes, and so one be so obviously revealing when the male heroes don't, is wrong. Why was Black Widow the only hero on the Avengers poster who was posed with her butt out while the other, male, heroes got to be in other poses?


There are notable women, of course from Queen Elizabeth to Cleopatra but was every woman in that time Queen Elizabeth or Cleopatra and I never said what a woman should or shouldn’t do, because anybody can do anything but back in those times that Ubisoft are stuck with between 1200 to 1800, the role of the woman in society was significantly less than what became of it later.


And I'm saying that women are STILL facing the same issue. Obviously, it's gotten better. A LOT better. A ridiculous amount better.... but it's only better. The fact that women still have to fight for equality, still don't make as much money for the same jobs, etc. is beyond ridiculous.

The Assassins are not tethered to the majority thoughts or beliefs. They're inclusive: female, male, gay, hetero, etc. We're shown this numerous times... Achilles is black at a time where blacks were looked on as property and subhuman, Aveline was ahalf-black/half-french woman at a time where blacks AND women had less power and was able to operate as an Assassin, Shao Jun was another female one... they have female Assassins going way back. Then all the female recruits in ACB/ACR. The excuse that "oh but historically, women didn't have the same freedoms...." isn't a viable one anymore because the lore has already established that female Assassins were part of the Assassins throughout history despite the rest of society deeming women to be inferior.


Well sadly video game developers won’t make a game a certain way because you and I and a few others are quite accepting to any type of protagonist, they want to sell. So it’s driven by money as well, not just by principle. Mass Effect 3 portrayed homosexuality in a perfect, healthy and non-stereotypical way and I wish AC does that too but I won’t be boycotting the franchise for that.

And correct me if I'm mistaken but there wasn't even a homosexual option for males in the first Mass Effect was there? I believe there was a lesbian option but not one for gay males. So bravo to Bioware for including that at least eventually.

I understand that it's driven by money which is why I don't want to continue giving MY money if it's alwaaaays going to be a male. That said, even if the next game was not a female, I would buy it if it was a homosexual male protagonist or something different like that.

pirate1802
06-14-2014, 01:40 PM
Yes, I too want to know why he is interested in playing as a female Assassin. I bet it has little to do with the "Assassin" part..

Brace yourselves, here comes the casuals bashing.

http://i.imgur.com/kr8SyfP.png

And yes I liked the new Lara more as well. Mostly because the old Lara was, it use a crude metaphor, the hot girl of the class. Everyone was after her, swooning after her, you felt intimidated by that. The new one is like the friendly girl next door you could sit down with and have a cuppa coffee without worrying whether you look like a monkey.