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View Full Version : How can AC benefit from Watch_Dogs? (and vice versa)



killzab
05-28-2014, 10:11 AM
For those who've played it, what features from WD would you like to see implemented in AC ?

And vice versa, how could WD be improved from AC ?

IMO, WD's AI is much superior to AC's and I wouldn't mind if they copied it for AC Unity. The world feels alive, and citizens have personalities.

Stealth is also much better in WD and if they could mix Assassin's abilites with Watch Dogs mechanics, we could finally have great stealth gameplay ( minus the hacking obviously but being able to use the environment as a distraction for example).

king-hailz
05-28-2014, 10:43 AM
Yeah but I don't want then to take too many things... otherwise they will feel a bit too similar like ac4 did with far cry 3... although that was kind of well done... I would like them to add a skill tree... not exactly like that but something like that that will give us more progression in the game... because ac4 had great progression in terms of the jackdaw... but there will be no jackdaw so what will happen to the progression.. We need to have it with the character... so I think something like that would help in ac. I personally found watch Dogs a bit boring... but it did have some good game play... I think it needs a lot of work... its probably like AC1 and AC2 Will be like watch Dogs 2...

Sushiglutton
05-28-2014, 06:34 PM
Haven't played WD, but I think Ubi is in a bit of a dangerous territory in terms of their IPs becoming too similar. This year alone they'll release four games with synchronization points, guard hideout infiltrations and all the other stuff that is currently in the Ubi Open-World algorithm.

That said I'd love a difficulty setting in AC just as WD and FarCry have :o

adventurewomen
05-28-2014, 06:42 PM
Haven't played WD, but I think Ubi is in a bit of a dangerous territory in terms of their IPs becoming too similar. This year alone they'll release four games with synchronization points, guard hideout infiltrations and all the other stuff that is currently in the Ubi Open-World algorithm.

That said I'd love a difficulty setting in AC just as WD and FarCry have :o
Agreed, well said :)

STDlyMcStudpants
05-28-2014, 06:59 PM
Both need more Connor

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-28-2014, 09:46 PM
Both need more Connor

Lolz.. there's already an Easter Egg of Connor in W_D :D

Btw, saw that conversation you had with Darby, nice try trying to get him to confess he's working on a Connor script XD

LoyalACFan
05-28-2014, 10:05 PM
The AI in WD is something that AC desperately needs to learn from, but more on that later. I don't have time to do a full analysis right now.

GunnerGalactico
05-28-2014, 10:09 PM
Lolz.. there's already an Easter Egg of Connor in W_D :D

Btw, saw that conversation you had with Darby, nice try trying to get him to confess he's working on a Connor script XD

He won't let anybody in on anything... that was a valiant effort nonetheless

STDlyMcStudpants
05-28-2014, 11:26 PM
Lolz.. there's already an Easter Egg of Connor in W_D :D

Btw, saw that conversation you had with Darby, nice try trying to get him to confess he's working on a Connor script XD
He confirmed a Connor Sequel actually where he kills hitler.. but there was a plot hole that needed filled.. i helped him fill it with the bermuda triangle though haha

adventurewomen
05-28-2014, 11:38 PM
both need more connor
**** yes!! <3


lolz.. There's already an easter egg of connor in w_d :d

btw, saw that conversation you had with darby, nice try trying to get him to confess he's working on a connor script xd
WOW Seriously?? I'ma have to get the game then!! :eek: :eek:

I wanna know the easter egg for Connor in Watch_Dogs!! I'm excited like WOW!! :D

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-29-2014, 12:09 AM
**** yes!! <3


WOW Seriously?? I'ma have to get the game then!! :eek: :eek:

I wanna know the easter egg for Connor in Watch_Dogs!! I'm excited like WOW!! :D

Here you go @ :30 :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6RJXBszgapw

And here's a very recent tweet I found for you guys :)

http://i62.tinypic.com/35lcgmt.png

Megas_Doux
05-29-2014, 12:32 AM
It will be interesting to see how the copies sold, or the lack of those, of Watch Dogs will affect AC. Only time will tell.

In regards of Connor, I want him to be somehow present in Unity as a consolidated and wise Master Assassin or even mentor. But after Unity, I just want to visit other eras.....

Locopells
05-29-2014, 12:36 AM
Well I've just heard that Watch_Dogs has sold more copies in its first 24 hours of availability than any previous title in Ubisoft's history, so...

Megas_Doux
05-29-2014, 12:44 AM
Thanks for the info!

Now, will that cause Unity to be released on past gen to boost the sales? Will the good sales-for now-, but the "not so good" reception affect AC yearly releases and make Ubi ship the focus from AC to Watch dogs? Or could that cause them to drop the quality of AC -while still keeping it annual to meet quarterly expectations considering its large fanbase- while they fix Watch Dogs issues?

We will see.

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-29-2014, 12:53 AM
Well I've just heard that Watch_Dogs has sold more copies in its first 24 hours of availability than any previous title in Ubisoft's history, so...

So did I, a big milestone to say the least... Gratz, Ubi!


It will be interesting to see how the copies sold, or the lack of those, of Watch Dogs will affect AC. Only time will tell.

In regards of Connor, I want him to be somehow present in Unity as a consolidated and wise Master Assassin or even mentor. But after Unity, I just want to visit other eras.....

^ This, but with the rumored Comet, I don't think we'll be able to visit another era yet until AC5 - i just can't help feeling that Unity and Comet are going to be in an era we previously visit (1800s)


Thanks for the info!

Now, will that cause Unity to be released on past gen to boost the sales? Will the good sales-for now-, but the "not so good" reception affect AC yearly releases and make Ubi ship the focus from AC to Watch dogs? Or could that cause them to drop the quality of AC -while still keeping it annual to meet quarterly expectations considering its large fanbase- while they fix Watch Dogs issues?

We will see.

I have heard that Unity maybe be released on past gen consoles as well. If that is true, then that'll be great because not a lot of people have money for a next gen console right now, so selling only to that market wouldn't be beneficial. It would be a shame if Watch Dogs stole all the thunder that ACU was supposed to get by the time it's released lol

dxsxhxcx
05-29-2014, 01:04 AM
Thanks for the info!

Now, will that cause Unity to be released on past gen to boost the sales? Will the good sales-for now-, but the "not so good" reception affect AC yearly releases and make Ubi ship the focus from AC to Watch dogs? Or could that cause them to drop the quality of AC -while still keeping it annual to meet quarterly expectations considering its large fanbase- while they fix Watch Dogs issues?

We will see.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are plans to release AC: Unity on PS3/Xbox360 from the beginning and they're just waiting for it to be released on next gen consoles (or the release date get closer) to announce it'll be released on the previous console generation as well..

adventurewomen
05-29-2014, 01:19 AM
Here you go @ :30 :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6RJXBszgapw


I'm AMAZED! :D

Best easter egg ever well Assassin Turkey was good, but this is on another level! :D

Yay, I love that Connor is in Watch_Dogs! Noah said he was looking forward to the game, I hope he sees that he actually is in the game! :D

phoenix-force411
05-29-2014, 01:46 AM
Yes! Let's use HAXXING Blades! That will really show them!

projectpat06
05-29-2014, 03:49 AM
The idea of invading someone else's game or catch someone while they are invading someone else's game seamlessly is brilliantly incorporated in watch dogs. I feel like this could be done in Assassin's Creed as well in various styles.

Using the same single player world, you have players try to assassinate. To you, they are templar spies. To them, you are an assigned target for the main character. Since could give limitless scenarios given the how unpredictable another human player may be.

You could incorporate this in other mission types like stealing money or information off people.

This is also a great way for seamless coop in the world. The person you play with appears as a generic assassin while you remain the protagonist. You are randomly given missions that requires cooperative gameplay.



Please share your ideas to build upon this topic. I understand there is already a topic about ways AC can benefit from watch dogs; however, I feel this topic alone can contain a massive amount of input and debate.

JustPlainQuirky
05-29-2014, 04:18 AM
Would be really weird if I was in the middle of attacking Napoleon and some templar came in and shot me in the face.

Farlander1991
05-29-2014, 05:18 AM
Would be really weird if I was in the middle of attacking Napoleon and some templar came in and shot me in the face.

Well, in watch dogs online intrusion happens only inbetween missions (if you have it on), so that wouldn't be a problem.

I personally think this would be an awesome addition to ACR's stalker mechanic (which was one of my most favourite new additions).

JustPlainQuirky
05-29-2014, 05:48 AM
well in that case I guess it would be cool.

But i'd rather have co-op with assassin buddies if I had to pick one. I love assassin buddies.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-29-2014, 06:30 AM
I was thinking the same thing... BUT
I don't want it to be killing at all.....
There are many randomly generated NPC events in AC such as pickpocketers...
I wouldnt mind going into someones world to take their money causing them to have to tackle me not only for it back BUT also the ammount i took (allow - money)
This way it is risky for the thief and i dont mind random chases from time to time..
I would just find it annoying to be hunted while im carelessly searching for collectibles.... (IE AC IV having a 'wanted' level on sea)
But thats about as far as it goes..
I dont ever want 'required' co op anything in a game....
Servers die....so do communities...
Id hate to have half of a game in 5 years...

Markaccus
05-29-2014, 08:56 AM
The idea of invading someone else's game or catch someone while they are invading someone else's game seamlessly is brilliantly incorporated in watch dogs. I feel like this could be done in Assassin's Creed as well in various styles.

Using the same single player world, you have players try to assassinate. To you, they are templar spies. To them, you are an assigned target for the main character. Since could give limitless scenarios given the how unpredictable another human player may be.

You could incorporate this in other mission types like stealing money or information off people.

This is also a great way for seamless coop in the world. The person you play with appears as a generic assassin while you remain the protagonist. You are randomly given missions that requires cooperative gameplay.



Please share your ideas to build upon this topic. I understand there is already a topic about ways AC can benefit from watch dogs; however, I feel this topic alone can contain a massive amount of input and debate.


I was thinking the same thing... BUT
I don't want it to be killing at all.....
There are many randomly generated NPC events in AC such as pickpocketers...
I wouldnt mind going into someones world to take their money causing them to have to tackle me not only for it back BUT also the ammount i took (allow - money)
This way it is risky for the thief and i dont mind random chases from time to time..
I would just find it annoying to be hunted while im carelessly searching for collectibles.... (IE AC IV having a 'wanted' level on sea)
But thats about as far as it goes..
I dont ever want 'required' co op anything in a game....
Servers die....so do communities...
Id hate to have half of a game in 5 years...

THIS^^

Basically, anything like this would need to be OPTIONAL. I don't play AC games on multiplayer, and have no interest in doing so. If it became a required part of the single player campaign, i would never buy another AC title (and would probably cry in the shower for a week :D )

RinoTheBouncer
05-29-2014, 01:38 PM
Creating a proper modern day experience for AC instead of the half or quarter-a**ed one we’ve got.

westernny1
05-29-2014, 03:40 PM
From what I saw in a watch Dogs walk-through on youtube, it looked like co-op and multiplayer was integrated into the main story map. I have played games like this. I think AC needs to mimic this in their own way. the current multiplayer format, in my opinion, is shallow. There is little motivation to play because it doesn't connect with all the hard work you put into the story, and the world and online game itself is too limited in what you can do. I think if AC integrates a series of co-op (players vs. computer) missions and player v player missions, into the main story, to be executed at the player's will, then the game will have endless playability, and multiplayer will add value. I see this as the #1 thing to take from watch dogs.

The co-op and PvP missions can be: you and a team of assassins take over an abstergo hideout, you and a team of player controlled ships attack a computer fleet or player fleet, you have an assassin hideout where you train assassins and you must protect this against other players (like in revelations, perhaps modified), etc. The possibilities are endless as long as AC is creative.

GunnerGalactico
05-29-2014, 08:01 PM
I personally think this would be an awesome addition to ACR's stalker mechanic (which was one of my most favourite new additions).

I wish they bring this back in future AC titles, I really enjoyed eeriness and "shock factor" I got when encountering stalkers. It was also one of my favourite additions. If they revamp and tweak this mechanic, it would definitely make the gameplay more interesting IMO.

Landruner
05-31-2014, 05:16 AM
Yeah but I don't want then to take too many things... otherwise they will feel a bit too similar like ac4 did with far cry 3... although that was kind of well done... I would like them to add a skill tree... not exactly like that but something like that that will give us more progression in the game... because ac4 had great progression in terms of the jackdaw... but there will be no jackdaw so what will happen to the progression.. We need to have it with the character... so I think something like that would help in ac. I personally found watch Dogs a bit boring... but it did have some good game play... I think it needs a lot of work... its probably like AC1 and AC2 Will be like watch Dogs 2...

As far as I know, some of the features and concept ideas for WD was first introduced age ago for Desmond for the AC3 modern days game play - They found the concept so great that they decided to start a new IP- aka watch dog and they terminated Desmond the way we know.... So, yep they may take some stuff from both IPs in order to include them accordingly since it was a link between the two from the beginning and conception of WD. Also keep in mind that AC was itself inspired by some another UBI IP aka Prince of Persia - Personally I won't be made that they borrow some good stuff from other games as long as they help the series to get better.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
05-31-2014, 08:08 AM
Watch_Dogs feels like a modern day AC which is awesome because it's fun... but if they ever made an actual modern day AC, I'd rage.


Open world games, at least IMO -- need to have things to do post-game that never end. My favorite open world games of all time are Red Dead Redemption and Spider-Man 2, both of which nailed it. You had random events/crimes in Spider-Man 2 and RDR; RDR also had regenerating guard hideouts and mini-games. SM2 had loads of random events such as armored car robberies, angry drivers, lost balloons that need to be caught and given back to kids, sinking boats with civilians on board, ambushes, mech attacks, car chases, gang fights, random gangs on roofs, etc. RDR had bandits riding through towns, shootouts, bounties, kidnappings, prostitutes about to be murdered, store robberies, horse robberies, ambushes, people who "need a ride", bird shooting contests, herb collecting contests, etc. It allows you to load the game up and still have stuff to do even when the main story is done. Eventually it gets repetitive but hey, better than having an empty game world with nothing to do.

That's the biggest issue with open world games. Is when there's basically just nothing left. Or very little. Sleeping Dogs for example is a GREAT game. Fun driving mechanics, really cool car to car leaping moves, interesting plot, etc. But after finishing the story and all the side missions/challenges...that's basically it. Yeah, you can drive around running people over and getting into cop chases but that gets boring eventually. There are also armored cars driving around that you can steal and return to get money but money is useless by then (once you've bought all outfits and cars and stuff that's it) and you can call a guy who will have you steal specific cars, again for money. It does let you replay missions at least. I tend to not play it as much though. Saints Row 3 on the other hand, while not having endless/regenerating gang hideouts or anything like that, DOES have icons that allow you to replay all the side missions at any time (unfortunately, NO main mission replay which is strange). At least money is never useless really as every time you buy an outfit, even if you own it, in a different color, it costs you.

ANYWAY... I bring this up because AC has never really been to great with this. It's not alone obviously but I feel like open world games need to follow the example of Spider-Man 2 and RDR. Watch_Dogs does this to an extent with the random crimes. That allows you to load the game up whenever, even after finishing the story and always have more to do than just getting into trouble with cops. It could be better... for instance, gang hideouts that repopulate with gang members would be REALLY fun. They patched Far Cry 3 to have something similar. Things like that really help make the game better because it allows you to just hop in and know you've got stuff to do that aren't just mini-games. W_D has random crimes, digital trips, phone games, and I'll even count the 1 v 1 multiplayer since it feels like a random event since it happens without pause for the person being invaded. AC on the other hand has always been pretty bland once you've completed all the main missions and side missions. I wish assassination contracts were randomized -- it'd be cool to go to a pigeon coup, get a randomized name/target, given a location (which becomes a restricted area for the duration of the contract), etc. You can complete it however you want, stealthy, actiony, whatever. You can also quit the contract whenever and continue playing from wherever you are. There should also be more random events: purse thieves, someone being attacked by a group of thugs, soldiers abusing their power, and so on.

AC HAS gotten better it sounds like. not great but better. I haven't played AC4 but I believe the warehouses regenerate which is cool, they have the thieves and random ship fights in the ocean but beyond that... I'm not sure if there are many indefinite things to do like W_D has.

W_D, I think, needs to look to GTA a bit more. I hate the comparisons between the two but Rockstar knows how to make solid open world games. They're very different but it'd be cool to see GTA-style customization in W_D. I want to customize my cars: color, handling, spoilers, exhaust pipes, nitrous, etc.). Maybe more clothing options instead of preset trench coat combos (although I dig the look and would probably stick with having different types of trench coats but the point is that it should be there regardless.

Maybe W_D could add in a few trucks with bales of hay in the back...

Farlander1991
05-31-2014, 08:51 AM
Hm. Interesting to see Spider-Man 2 used as an example of 'how to do things right'. Most people think that Spider-Man 2 has too few side activities that get boring fairly quickly (and I tend to agree, other open-world Spidey games haven't really improved it that much, some have it worse).

Anyway, I do agree with the idea that open-world games need systemic content that doesn't end, however that's really tricky. For one thing - it can't be FULLY randomly generated (unless you're in an open ocean, I suppose), otherwise it's prone to bugs and crappy variations of the situations, so the ideal is to script lots of different scenarios that can be randomly activated around the world (with some variables randomly turned on/off), giving the illusion that things are happening at random and at the same time are kept interesting. AC kinda does this to a degree, but not enough - because people see that things are happening at the same place the same way (the slave situations in Freedom Cry, for example, while there are many and they're all around the place, it's fairly easy to memorize where they're happening).

Another thing is that ideally speaking the side content would form a systemic gameplay loop (that would also fit thematically and narratively). Both AC4 and Freedom Cry succeed partially in that: they have a systemic gameplay loop that goes on and on and is fun, UNTIL you do everything that can be done AND reach the 'final goal' (not necessarily story-wise), when it stops being a loop and becomes 'doing things for whatever'. For example in AC4 you've got legendary ships - which are really hard to defeat even with a fully upgraded ship, so they're like the culmination of AC4's systemic loop, where every side activity you do is essentially to gain money to beat those ships, and you need TONS of money for that, and it's all fun, but when you beat those ships, the loop stops, all the side activities don't have a goal to them other than doing them for the sake of doing them. I guess you can say that AC has got more of a spiral than a loop.

LoyalACFan
05-31-2014, 08:57 PM
OK, after playing W_D for about 30 hours between Tuesday morning and right now, I feel that I'm equipped to make a fair comparison. Note that I'm only halfway through Act II, so I'm physically incapable of spoiling anything :p It'll be a safe read, albeit a long one.

How AC Can Benefit from Watch_Dogs

-Guards and AI. I've been sharply critical of AC's enemy AI for a while, so this is the part I was most eager to talk about here; I was pleasantly surprised by W_D's deft handling of it. It's simply head-and-shoulders above anything AC has ever produced on this front. The detection mechanics are far better, and while they do still use the "detection meter" from AC, it feels much more natural and believable since it fills far quicker and (as far as I can tell) is influenced greatly by how far away from the target you are. Plus, there's a bit of a grace period between the time you're spotted and all the guards in the place swarming on your ***. If a guy sees you, but you take him out before he screams or fires his gun, you're OK. One or two guys might take a look in your direction or come try and find out what the noise they heard was, but there's no more "one guy saw me three seconds before I stabbed him in the face, so naturally every guy in the city knows exactly where I am." Now that's not to say there aren't issues; the "Distract" option where you grab a guard's attention, usually with an embarrassing or exploitative text, is as overpowered as AC2's courtesans (I've walked literally right up into a man's face and beat him to death while he was reading the text I sent him) and there seems to be an inadequate number of profiles for it. I've seen the "banned from public zoo" one at least three times. But despite that, it works. It's functional. What really grabbed me, though, was how organically the guards behaved in restricted zones, and how bad AC enemies look in comparison. They lean up against walls. They stop to have a smoke. They call out to their buddies if they hear something unusual (my favorite was hearing a guy tell his friend "MUTE is that little button on the side" when I hacked his phone to make it ring and distract him). They actually freaking speak and investigate when they see dead bodies. AC guards walk on canned paths and stand still as statues. They feel like robots. Even little things like the ones I just mentioned would go a hell of a long way toward making the enemies feel like actual people instead of lazily-programmed cyborgs.

-Handholding. The game does have some heavily scripted missions that don't give you much freedom (the one where you do absolutely nothing but bounce from camera to camera in Rossi-Fremont comes to mind... the mission was basically just an exposition dump) but it's balanced out by everything being available pretty much from the start. No arbitrary desync walls, no locked-out side missions, no "progress further in the story to unlock this upgrade." This leads to some dissonance later on; for example, one mission sees Aiden introduced to sticky bombs for the first time, even though I had been using them freely to stop criminal convoys for the past five hours. However, this is much preferable to being restricted to whatever the devs think you should be restricted to during these hours. Ideally I just wouldn't have any tutorial missions like that in the story, I mean most of it ain't hard to figure out on your own... but I digress.

-Unlocking weapons. Now, I don't particularly like RPG-style skill point progression, though I think W_D does it fairly well, and I'm certainly not advocating for AC to go that route. But I was impressed that W_D makes you work to unlock new weapons. It doesn't hand you anything in the story (so far, at least). For example, you have to take down an illegal weapons trading ring to unlock a silenced rifle. That makes sense, and the weapon itself is extremely useful without being overpowered. And without stupid optional full-sync objectives, it never forces you to use a weapon you don't want to use. I think the weapons themselves are better balanced in this game than AC as well; if a silenced semi-auto pistol is less OP for stealth than a blowpipe, that's a problem.

-Free-running. This might be a bit of a contrarian opinion, but I've had more fun with W_D's free-running than either of the two most recent AC's. Why? Because it's fluid and precise. Never do I find myself hopping up onto obstacles I don't want to hop onto, or inexplicably ramming into something and stopping dead in my tracks in front of something I should obviously be able to climb. Separating the "run" from the "free-run" button is something that AC should have done a long time ago. Occasionally Aiden's "slide" animation doesn't quite match the obstacle he's sliding over, but that's a small price to pay for smoothness, and in AC where free-running is showcased much more prominently I'm sure they could cook up some more animations to fit every scenario. Plus, I'm realizing more and more that AC has a lot of obstacles that are coded to allow you to stand on top of them, when you would never actually need or want to. Why the hell would we need to stand on top of a pub table or a treasure chest? Allowing them to be stood on just makes it more likely that we'll get hung up on them when we're trying to go up and over. Obviously AC does need wall-climbing and forward leaps so they shouldn't just do a copy/paste job from W_D. I'm just saying that they could learn a lot from the smooth, unstoppable free-running of W_D. And I just die for that little wall-kick Aiden does when he's leaping over a privacy fence with an object to the side. More context-sensitive animations like that would certainly be welcome in AC.

-Multiple takedown animations. This one never bothered me until now, but why the hell does Aiden get like 10 stealth takedowns while an ASSASSIN game only has one? Sure it's just aesthetic, but it's a little boring to see the exact same kill play out every time you push the button. Sometimes he should stab them in the back, sometimes in the neck, sometimes in the heart, and so on. There's not much leeway with low-profile assassinations since part of the point is to walk away while they're still standing, but aren't high-profile public kills supposed to be about striking fear into the enemy's heart? So I fully expect to see some flashy stuff in the next game.

-Aiming and shooting. This is a small one since AC doesn't really use much gunplay, but we're keeping guns for at least one more installment, and W_D would be the place to look to. I've heard some complaints about its gunplay, but I have no idea why, I think it's fine. Which brings me to...

-COVER AND CROUCHING. Dear lord Ubi, just blatantly rip off W_D's cover system and context-sensitive hunkering down in restricted areas and I'll never complain about a crouch button again. Aiden's stance makes infiltrations approximately 100000x cooler than they would be without it, and the cover system, while excessively sticky (if I'm holding the run button and pushing in the opposite direction, I should unstick from cover) would be awesome to see in an AC game.

---

How Watch_Dogs Can Benefit from AC

-Walking. It should be the default. I heard that jogging was the default full-tilt movement shortly before I picked up the game, and I was utterly dismayed. While it didn't bother me as much as I thought it would, I still hate it. It sort of baffles me too, because free-running requires a third input anyway. It should be Left Analog Stick Only = Walk, Stick + O = Jog (like AC's fast walk), Stick + R2 = Run, Stick + R2 + O = Free-Run.

-Side-Mission variety. I'm talking solely about AC4 here, the other AC's have been pretty bad about side content too. W_D has the digital trips and those are fun as hell, but there are only four of them and they don't really even feel like you're still playing the same game. Other than those, you spend your time in sneaking/shooting missions, driving missions, or using-cameras-to-find-hackable-stuff missions. All of those are really fun, but at times I wish there was content that was still relevant to the core game while simultaneously serving as an escape from it. I'm talking about stuff like AC4's underwater caverns, harpooning, legendary ships, hunting, and the older games' tombs. W_D has investigations and I had my hopes up for those, but you basically just walk to the marker, scan the evidence and leave. Hardly thrilling. Privacy invasions are entertaining, but the gameplay is identical to the camera hacking missions.

-Keep MP and SP separate. Maybe this won't bother me when Ubi gets its s**t together and MP actually reliably works, but at the moment I'm unable to even connect to a session (keeps telling me to check my NAT type even though I know it's fine since I got into a session yesterday and nothing has changed on my end since then) and I'm still getting these damned popups every five minutes offering me an Online Tailing or whatever. AC4 was annoying with its implementation of social events/challenges, and this is the same thing but taken to a whole new level. Tech-wise, the concept of hacking another player's game is cool, but I don't really want to be constantly reminded of it with little purple notifications, nor do I particularly want to fight off another player every time one shows up. And before anyone says it, I know you can turn it off, but I don't want to have all my online stuff reset to zero either.
Aw, c'mon, I didn't write that wall o' text for nothing, did I?

Shahkulu101
05-31-2014, 11:26 PM
I read it all Loyal, don't worry. ;)

I agree with your points as well. Stealth in W_D is such a pleasant surprise. Maybe they are willing to create a proper stealth system after all? Considering they wanted W_D to branch out to the biggest audience possible, perhaps implementing a stealth system that isn't easy as bricks in AC is a possibility now.

adventurewomen
05-31-2014, 11:29 PM
I'm not reading what you wrote Loyal, I'm in fear of it containing spoilers! Please wrap spoiler tags around it! :eek: :eek:

Shahkulu101
05-31-2014, 11:33 PM
I'm not reading what you wrote Loyal, I'm in fear of it containing spoilers! Please wrap spoiler tags around it! :eek: :eek:

There aren't any story spoilers at all.

adventurewomen
05-31-2014, 11:35 PM
There aren't any story spoilers at all.
I'm just very sensitive to gameplay details, I'd like to find out about them for myself.

Shahkulu101
05-31-2014, 11:38 PM
I'm just very sensitive to gameplay details, I'd like to find out about them for myself.

Fair enough, a lot to discover. Not all of it that good, but some great side content for sure.

Locopells
06-01-2014, 12:33 AM
Spoiler tags done.

I-Like-Pie45
06-01-2014, 02:26 AM
I say that AC should learn nothing from Watch Dogs

Aiden Pearce is leftist filth

Wolfmeister1010
06-01-2014, 04:34 AM
I LOVE the rolling animations in WD.ADD TO AC.

Also, the way the camera moves, like shaking lightly when running, twitching from side to side when swimming, and more, are very nice.

If we can't have manual crouching, then contextual crouching in restricted areas like WD would be fine.

Light/dark based stealth.

LoyalACFan
06-01-2014, 04:41 AM
Light/dark based stealth.

Forgot to mention this, thanks for adding :D

BoBwUzHeRe1138
06-01-2014, 09:23 AM
I say that AC should learn nothing from Watch Dogs

Aiden Pearce is leftist filth

"Leftist filth"?

So are most heroes. Connor is left, Ezio is left...

There's a reason why the Templars are often the rich or religious leaders -- the ones who hold power. There's a reason why the bad guys in Arrow are big business owners and why people like that are often shown to be villainous.

Assassins are for equality and freedom, Templars want control. Know who else wants control? Politicians in general, but only one group (the right) wants to control womens bodies, say gays cannot marry, force religion down other peoples' throats, etc. That's more in-line with Templar philosophy than Assassin. So please, AC ALREADY is that "leftist filth."

Locopells
06-01-2014, 11:43 AM
Don't take Pie seriously, he's kidding around...


Light/dark based stealth.

Remembering a little game called Splinter Cell that had that years ago...

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 01:59 PM
Assassins are for equality and freedom, Templars want control. Know who else wants control? Politicians in general, but only one group (the right) wants to control womens bodies, say gays cannot marry, force religion down other peoples' throats, etc. That's more in-line with Templar philosophy than Assassin.


.....*facepalms*

Sushiglutton
06-01-2014, 05:35 PM
Aah the Loyal WD analysis is up! I will check in tomorrow after my exam :)!

Wolfmeister1010
06-01-2014, 11:23 PM
.....*facepalms*

Yeah can we not bring in American politics into this

LoyalACFan
06-01-2014, 11:24 PM
Aah the Loyal WD analysis is up! I will check in tomorrow after my exam :)!

Flattered :)

Wolfmeister1010
06-01-2014, 11:26 PM
Flattered :)

What is this WD analysis we are talking about?

LoyalACFan
06-01-2014, 11:39 PM
What is this WD analysis we are talking about?

Page 4, I did a big write-up about how W_D and AC can learn from each other. Loco wrapped spoiler tags around it to tidy things up, but don't worry, there aren't any story spoilers at all.

Locopells
06-02-2014, 01:31 AM
Yeah, I can confirm that - just put the tags there after people differed on what was a spoiler for them.


OK, after playing W_D for about 30 hours between Tuesday morning and right now, I feel that I'm equipped to make a fair comparison. Note that I'm only halfway through Act II, so I'm physically incapable of spoiling anything http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/tongue.png It'll be a safe read, albeit a long one.

How AC Can Benefit from Watch_Dogs

-Guards and AI. I've been sharply critical of AC's enemy AI for a while, so this is the part I was most eager to talk about here; I was pleasantly surprised by W_D's deft handling of it. It's simply head-and-shoulders above anything AC has ever produced on this front. The detection mechanics are far better, and while they do still use the "detection meter" from AC, it feels much more natural and believable since it fills far quicker and (as far as I can tell) is influenced greatly by how far away from the target you are. Plus, there's a bit of a grace period between the time you're spotted and all the guards in the place swarming on your ***. If a guy sees you, but you take him out before he screams or fires his gun, you're OK. One or two guys might take a look in your direction or come try and find out what the noise they heard was, but there's no more "one guy saw me three seconds before I stabbed him in the face, so naturally every guy in the city knows exactly where I am." Now that's not to say there aren't issues; the "Distract" option where you grab a guard's attention, usually with an embarrassing or exploitative text, is as overpowered as AC2's courtesans (I've walked literally right up into a man's face and beat him to death while he was reading the text I sent him) and there seems to be an inadequate number of profiles for it. I've seen the "banned from public zoo" one at least three times. But despite that, it works. It's functional. What really grabbed me, though, was how organically the guards behaved in restricted zones, and how bad AC enemies look in comparison. They lean up against walls. They stop to have a smoke. They call out to their buddies if they hear something unusual (my favorite was hearing a guy tell his friend "MUTE is that little button on the side" when I hacked his phone to make it ring and distract him). They actually freaking speak and investigate when they see dead bodies. AC guards walk on canned paths and stand still as statues. They feel like robots. Even little things like the ones I just mentioned would go a hell of a long way toward making the enemies feel like actual people instead of lazily-programmed cyborgs.

-Handholding. The game does have some heavily scripted missions that don't give you much freedom (the one where you do absolutely nothing but bounce from camera to camera in Rossi-Fremont comes to mind... the mission was basically just an exposition dump) but it's balanced out by everything being available pretty much from the start. No arbitrary desync walls, no locked-out side missions, no "progress further in the story to unlock this upgrade." This leads to some dissonance later on; for example, one mission sees Aiden introduced to sticky bombs for the first time, even though I had been using them freely to stop criminal convoys for the past five hours. However, this is much preferable to being restricted to whatever the devs think you should be restricted to during these hours. Ideally I just wouldn't have any tutorial missions like that in the story, I mean most of it ain't hard to figure out on your own... but I digress.

-Unlocking weapons. Now, I don't particularly like RPG-style skill point progression, though I think W_D does it fairly well, and I'm certainly not advocating for AC to go that route. But I was impressed that W_D makes you work to unlock new weapons. It doesn't hand you anything in the story (so far, at least). For example, you have to take down an illegal weapons trading ring to unlock a silenced rifle. That makes sense, and the weapon itself is extremely useful without being overpowered. And without stupid optional full-sync objectives, it never forces you to use a weapon you don't want to use. I think the weapons themselves are better balanced in this game than AC as well; if a silenced semi-auto pistol is less OP for stealth than a blowpipe, that's a problem.

-Free-running. This might be a bit of a contrarian opinion, but I've had more fun with W_D's free-running than either of the two most recent AC's. Why? Because it's fluid and precise. Never do I find myself hopping up onto obstacles I don't want to hop onto, or inexplicably ramming into something and stopping dead in my tracks in front of something I should obviously be able to climb. Separating the "run" from the "free-run" button is something that AC should have done a long time ago. Occasionally Aiden's "slide" animation doesn't quite match the obstacle he's sliding over, but that's a small price to pay for smoothness, and in AC where free-running is showcased much more prominently I'm sure they could cook up some more animations to fit every scenario. Plus, I'm realizing more and more that AC has a lot of obstacles that are coded to allow you to stand on top of them, when you would never actually need or want to. Why the hell would we need to stand on top of a pub table or a treasure chest? Allowing them to be stood on just makes it more likely that we'll get hung up on them when we're trying to go up and over. Obviously AC does need wall-climbing and forward leaps so they shouldn't just do a copy/paste job from W_D. I'm just saying that they could learn a lot from the smooth, unstoppable free-running of W_D. And I just die for that little wall-kick Aiden does when he's leaping over a privacy fence with an object to the side. More context-sensitive animations like that would certainly be welcome in AC.

-Multiple takedown animations. This one never bothered me until now, but why the hell does Aiden get like 10 stealth takedowns while an ASSASSIN game only has one? Sure it's just aesthetic, but it's a little boring to see the exact same kill play out every time you push the button. Sometimes he should stab them in the back, sometimes in the neck, sometimes in the heart, and so on. There's not much leeway with low-profile assassinations since part of the point is to walk away while they're still standing, but aren't high-profile public kills supposed to be about striking fear into the enemy's heart? So I fully expect to see some flashy stuff in the next game.

-Aiming and shooting. This is a small one since AC doesn't really use much gunplay, but we're keeping guns for at least one more installment, and W_D would be the place to look to. I've heard some complaints about its gunplay, but I have no idea why, I think it's fine. Which brings me to...

-COVER AND CROUCHING. Dear lord Ubi, just blatantly rip off W_D's cover system and context-sensitive hunkering down in restricted areas and I'll never complain about a crouch button again. Aiden's stance makes infiltrations approximately 100000x cooler than they would be without it, and the cover system, while excessively sticky (if I'm holding the run button and pushing in the opposite direction, I should unstick from cover) would be awesome to see in an AC game.

---

How Watch_Dogs Can Benefit from AC

-Walking. It should be the default. I heard that jogging was the default full-tilt movement shortly before I picked up the game, and I was utterly dismayed. While it didn't bother me as much as I thought it would, I still hate it. It sort of baffles me too, because free-running requires a third input anyway. It should be Left Analog Stick Only = Walk, Stick + O = Jog (like AC's fast walk), Stick + R2 = Run, Stick + R2 + O = Free-Run.

-Side-Mission variety. I'm talking solely about AC4 here, the other AC's have been pretty bad about side content too. W_D has the digital trips and those are fun as hell, but there are only four of them and they don't really even feel like you're still playing the same game. Other than those, you spend your time in sneaking/shooting missions, driving missions, or using-cameras-to-find-hackable-stuff missions. All of those are really fun, but at times I wish there was content that was still relevant to the core game while simultaneously serving as an escape from it. I'm talking about stuff like AC4's underwater caverns, harpooning, legendary ships, hunting, and the older games' tombs. W_D has investigations and I had my hopes up for those, but you basically just walk to the marker, scan the evidence and leave. Hardly thrilling. Privacy invasions are entertaining, but the gameplay is identical to the camera hacking missions.

-Keep MP and SP separate. Maybe this won't bother me when Ubi gets its s**t together and MP actually reliably works, but at the moment I'm unable to even connect to a session (keeps telling me to check my NAT type even though I know it's fine since I got into a session yesterday and nothing has changed on my end since then) and I'm still getting these damned popups every five minutes offering me an Online Tailing or whatever. AC4 was annoying with its implementation of social events/challenges, and this is the same thing but taken to a whole new level. Tech-wise, the concept of hacking another player's game is cool, but I don't really want to be constantly reminded of it with little purple notifications, nor do I particularly want to fight off another player every time one shows up. And before anyone says it, I know you can turn it off, but I don't want to have all my online stuff reset to zero either.
Aw, c'mon, I didn't write that wall o' text for nothing, did I?

shobhit7777777
06-02-2014, 10:10 AM
After pouring in hours into WD.....I don't think AC can take away much from WD. What WD does well is related to its urban, modern open world and hacking gameplay - the rest has already been wrapped up and done better in AC4...in fact WD should take cues from AC

AC4 IMO acknowledged and addressed all the major issues and those lessons learnt have been applied to WD

The only thing I can think of which can be implemented in AC would perhaps be the witness calls and the "reputation" system. Too many socially unacceptable actions should affect your rep which should affect how citizens react to you....leading to a people running away to snitch on you..and you having to stop them from doing so.

Crafting and mutli-purpose tools would also be nice to have in AC....different tools to allow different approaches.

Oh and FFS....they need to make an option that resets ALL side missions for replayability - thats one huge flaw with WD.

Shahkulu101
06-02-2014, 10:14 AM
Can you reset SOME side missions in W_D shobhit? If so, which ones?

shobhit7777777
06-02-2014, 10:19 AM
Can you reset SOME side missions in W_D shobhit? If so, which ones?

AFAIK...you can't reset anything. Which is a G-dam shame because they are a lot of fun.

Shahkulu101
06-02-2014, 10:27 AM
AFAIK...you can't reset anything. Which is a G-dam shame because they are a lot of fun.

Yes I have the game I was just wondering if I missed something. The CtOS centres, gang hideouts and criminal convoys are fun. Other than that, including collectibles, the side activities are pretty boring. Oh and the random crimes are cool too - the first dozen times at least.

shobhit7777777
06-02-2014, 10:39 AM
. Oh and the random crimes are cool too - the first dozen times at least.

Agreed completely

Its one of the few side missions that DOESN'T have replayability.

My WD review should be up soon....I'll be discussing it in greater detail in that. This game desperately needs a sequel.

Shahkulu101
06-02-2014, 11:06 AM
Agreed completely

Its one of the few side missions that DOESN'T have replayability.

My WD review should be up soon....I'll be discussing it in greater detail in that. This game desperately needs a sequel.

Good thing it definitely will get one. It's their best-selling new IP, and they were always planning to make it a franchise.

Sushiglutton
06-02-2014, 01:01 PM
Disclaimer: Have not played WD


OK, after playing W_D for about 30 hours between Tuesday morning and right now, I feel that I'm equipped to make a fair comparison. Note that I'm only halfway through Act II, so I'm physically incapable of spoiling anything :p It'll be a safe read, albeit a long one.

How AC Can Benefit from Watch_Dogs

-Guards and AI. I've been sharply critical of AC's enemy AI for a while, so this is the part I was most eager to talk about here; I was pleasantly surprised by W_D's deft handling of it. It's simply head-and-shoulders above anything AC has ever produced on this front. The detection mechanics are far better, and while they do still use the "detection meter" from AC, it feels much more natural and believable since it fills far quicker and (as far as I can tell) is influenced greatly by how far away from the target you are. Plus, there's a bit of a grace period between the time you're spotted and all the guards in the place swarming on your ***. If a guy sees you, but you take him out before he screams or fires his gun, you're OK. One or two guys might take a look in your direction or come try and find out what the noise they heard was, but there's no more "one guy saw me three seconds before I stabbed him in the face, so naturally every guy in the city knows exactly where I am." Now that's not to say there aren't issues; the "Distract" option where you grab a guard's attention, usually with an embarrassing or exploitative text, is as overpowered as AC2's courtesans (I've walked literally right up into a man's face and beat him to death while he was reading the text I sent him) and there seems to be an inadequate number of profiles for it. I've seen the "banned from public zoo" one at least three times. But despite that, it works. It's functional. What really grabbed me, though, was how organically the guards behaved in restricted zones, and how bad AC enemies look in comparison. They lean up against walls. They stop to have a smoke. They call out to their buddies if they hear something unusual (my favorite was hearing a guy tell his friend "MUTE is that little button on the side" when I hacked his phone to make it ring and distract him). They actually freaking speak and investigate when they see dead bodies. AC guards walk on canned paths and stand still as statues. They feel like robots. Even little things like the ones I just mentioned would go a hell of a long way toward making the enemies feel like actual people instead of lazily-programmed cyborgs.

There are some stuff here that def sound neat!

I'm not sure how (if) the detection is related to the distance, but it makes a lot of sense to do it that way (I'm pretty sure you get detected real quick if you are close in AC). In AC4 they pretty much removed the hive mind as far as I can tell. You have plenty of time to take out a couple of guards at a plantation without enyone else noticing.

More organic guard behaviour would def be welcome. Guards in AC follow very strict routes/stand still. Now there is something to be said for consistency and predictability in stealth. This must be one of the hardest things to balance as a designer. Anyway 100% agree that there needs to be some punishment (calling in reinforcement, starting to search actively, more aware) to dead bodies being found (I think in AC4 that it may cause bell ringing???). There are systems in place for hiding bodies, but they become mute when there is no benefit in doing so.


-Handholding. The game does have some heavily scripted missions that don't give you much freedom (the one where you do absolutely nothing but bounce from camera to camera in Rossi-Fremont comes to mind... the mission was basically just an exposition dump) but it's balanced out by everything being available pretty much from the start. No arbitrary desync walls, no locked-out side missions, no "progress further in the story to unlock this upgrade." This leads to some dissonance later on; for example, one mission sees Aiden introduced to sticky bombs for the first time, even though I had been using them freely to stop criminal convoys for the past five hours. However, this is much preferable to being restricted to whatever the devs think you should be restricted to during these hours. Ideally I just wouldn't have any tutorial missions like that in the story, I mean most of it ain't hard to figure out on your own... but I digress.


I don't mind some stuff being unlocked in the campaign. But I suppose you mean when very large chunks of the open-world is held hostage? AC4 was also fairly open in this way. For example I had taken out several forts before that tutorial mission.

Is it the same in WD as in AC that pretty much every sinbgle mechanic/side-content has a tutorial mission in the campaign? This is a big issue in AC4 for me, because it hurts the pacing of the campaign and makes replays kind of tedious.


-Unlocking weapons. Now, I don't particularly like RPG-style skill point progression, though I think W_D does it fairly well, and I'm certainly not advocating for AC to go that route. But I was impressed that W_D makes you work to unlock new weapons. It doesn't hand you anything in the story (so far, at least). For example, you have to take down an illegal weapons trading ring to unlock a silenced rifle. That makes sense, and the weapon itself is extremely useful without being overpowered. And without stupid optional full-sync objectives, it never forces you to use a weapon you don't want to use. I think the weapons themselves are better balanced in this game than AC as well; if a silenced semi-auto pistol is less OP for stealth than a blowpipe, that's a problem.

I'm def for rewarding some activities in the open world with unique weapons/upgrades etc. Either because you find them, or complete some sort of special mission(s). That is the Zelda way of doing it which I think is infinitely better than the grind skin/money/shop method AC uses for the most part. There needs to be suprises to reward exploration properly. You should be able to go to some part of the map and find something unique withou there being an icon on a map.



-Free-running. This might be a bit of a contrarian opinion, but I've had more fun with W_D's free-running than either of the two most recent AC's. Why? Because it's fluid and precise. Never do I find myself hopping up onto obstacles I don't want to hop onto, or inexplicably ramming into something and stopping dead in my tracks in front of something I should obviously be able to climb. Separating the "run" from the "free-run" button is something that AC should have done a long time ago. Occasionally Aiden's "slide" animation doesn't quite match the obstacle he's sliding over, but that's a small price to pay for smoothness, and in AC where free-running is showcased much more prominently I'm sure they could cook up some more animations to fit every scenario. Plus, I'm realizing more and more that AC has a lot of obstacles that are coded to allow you to stand on top of them, when you would never actually need or want to. Why the hell would we need to stand on top of a pub table or a treasure chest? Allowing them to be stood on just makes it more likely that we'll get hung up on them when we're trying to go up and over. Obviously AC does need wall-climbing and forward leaps so they shouldn't just do a copy/paste job from W_D. I'm just saying that they could learn a lot from the smooth, unstoppable free-running of W_D. And I just die for that little wall-kick Aiden does when he's leaping over a privacy fence with an object to the side. More context-sensitive animations like that would certainly be welcome in AC.


I think you are correct that AC3/4 may have been too ambitious in terms of interactive objects. Especially since they removed one level of control. Contextual animations are nice, but there needs to be some level of interactivity to make the freerunning satisfying as a standalone mechanic.


-Multiple takedown animations. This one never bothered me until now, but why the hell does Aiden get like 10 stealth takedowns while an ASSASSIN game only has one? Sure it's just aesthetic, but it's a little boring to see the exact same kill play out every time you push the button. Sometimes he should stab them in the back, sometimes in the neck, sometimes in the heart, and so on. There's not much leeway with low-profile assassinations since part of the point is to walk away while they're still standing, but aren't high-profile public kills supposed to be about striking fear into the enemy's heart? So I fully expect to see some flashy stuff in the next game.


What I like about the takedowns in AC is that they are very fast and don't use any weird camera angles (worst example Deus Ex: HR). Since it is short I really don't mind that there is only one (can honestly not remember if this is really the case, know there are a couple of double assassinations).


-Aiming and shooting. This is a small one since AC doesn't really use much gunplay, but we're keeping guns for at least one more installment, and W_D would be the place to look to. I've heard some complaints about its gunplay, but I have no idea why, I think it's fine. Which brings me to...


Yeah I think aiming is cool for multiple historical settings. Playing with a gamepad I need a slow-mo feature, so that would be neat if they implemented (could make up some BS animus explanation easily). Ofc AC4 was fine without it since you get so much assist.


-COVER AND CROUCHING. Dear lord Ubi, just blatantly rip off W_D's cover system and context-sensitive hunkering down in restricted areas and I'll never complain about a crouch button again. Aiden's stance makes infiltrations approximately 100000x cooler than they would be without it, and the cover system, while excessively sticky (if I'm holding the run button and pushing in the opposite direction, I should unstick from cover) would be awesome to see in an AC game.


The Tomb Raider way? Maybe in AC:U depending on how much they have really rebuilt the engine.

Dev_Anj
06-02-2014, 01:34 PM
Shobhit7, I don't want to stir up flames, but do you think the GTA franchise can learn something from Watch_Dogs? I remember how you were dissing GTA 5's flaws and talking about how Watch_Dogs brought some much needed improvements to the open world genre. I'd like to hear more on that.

Also do raise the point that Watch_Dogs brought about those improvements at a budget of 68 million dollars, while GTA 5 had 225 million dollars.... and used it all in tennis, baseball, yoga, golf mini games etc etc :p. I've noticed people fail to pay any attention to that while criticizing Watch_Dogs in comparison to GTA 5.

shobhit7777777
06-02-2014, 02:16 PM
Shobhit7, I don't want to stir up flames, but do you think the GTA franchise can learn something from Watch_Dogs? I remember how you were dissing GTA 5's flaws and talking about how Watch_Dogs brought some much needed improvements to the open world genre. I'd like to hear more on that.

Also do raise the point that Watch_Dogs brought about those improvements at a budget of 68 million dollars, while GTA 5 had 225 million dollars.... and used it all in tennis, baseball, yoga, golf mini games etc etc :p. I've noticed people fail to pay any attention to that while criticizing Watch_Dogs in comparison to GTA 5.

GTA?

Hell yeah it can learn something from WD.....it goes both ways...but I definitely prefer WD over GTA.

Mission design, gunplay, AI detection, wanted levels, police response, stealth.....stuff GTA should just pick up

Markaccus
06-02-2014, 02:24 PM
Is there enough similarities between AC games and WD's for a die hard AC fan like me to enjoy WD's???

pacmanate
06-02-2014, 03:00 PM
One thing I love in W_D, the smoothness of animations, something AC needs to get right. W_D animations whilst free running are so damn fluid!

I would also like to see more contextual vaults in AC like in W_D. What I mean by this is sometimes Aiden will side step on a wall too boost him over a ledge, I like little things like that.

Megas_Doux
06-02-2014, 04:04 PM
My WD review should be up soon....I'll be discussing it in greater detail in that. This game desperately needs a sequel.

Interesting, looking forward to it!

poptartz20
06-02-2014, 07:59 PM
what AC can take from Watchdogs is 2 words.

RANDOM EVENTS!

Woo! lol.


I think I agree with some of the others on here... I'm not far in watchdogs yet as I've gotten so caught up in side content I haven't progressed in the story, but WD feels like ubi's version of a futuristic GTA + Hackers. I really enjoy it but I dont see where AC can really benefit from it outside of a few things. Like Crafting (NO BOMBS) or perhaps the progression wheel, or the "stealth" mechanic?