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View Full Version : Fw 200 "Condor" amazing manouver!



robban75
01-03-2004, 02:49 PM
Excerpt from the book, "Kurt Tank: Focke Wulf's Designer and test pilot" By Wolfgang Wagner.

One day, as Flugkapit√¬§n Graf Schack was bringing an Fw 200 Condor to Bremen for an overhaul, by way of announcing his arrival he buzzed the airfield and began making a loop with the four-engined giant at low altitude.
Flugbaumeister Hans Sander was standing in front of one of the airfield's hangars at that moment, and could not believe what he was seeing. After pulling out at an altitude of about 50 meters, Schack screamed across the airfield, pulled up, lowered the gear and made a sharp turn onto final approach. Lowering the flaps, he dropped onto the runway as if the machine had been a sportplane."Hopefully the guy's practiced this before" thought Sander. The demonstration was flawless and was in no way a spontaneous and foolhardy occurrence.

Not bad for such a large airframe!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

robban75
01-03-2004, 02:49 PM
Excerpt from the book, "Kurt Tank: Focke Wulf's Designer and test pilot" By Wolfgang Wagner.

One day, as Flugkapit√¬§n Graf Schack was bringing an Fw 200 Condor to Bremen for an overhaul, by way of announcing his arrival he buzzed the airfield and began making a loop with the four-engined giant at low altitude.
Flugbaumeister Hans Sander was standing in front of one of the airfield's hangars at that moment, and could not believe what he was seeing. After pulling out at an altitude of about 50 meters, Schack screamed across the airfield, pulled up, lowered the gear and made a sharp turn onto final approach. Lowering the flaps, he dropped onto the runway as if the machine had been a sportplane."Hopefully the guy's practiced this before" thought Sander. The demonstration was flawless and was in no way a spontaneous and foolhardy occurrence.

Not bad for such a large airframe!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LeadSpitter_
01-03-2004, 02:59 PM
Sounds possible, but we all dont know, the condors airframe was incrediably weak and broke in half on landings which was one of the major flaws of the condor, Im sure any manuever was possible with enough airspeed and not to much stress on the airframe which we dont have to worry about in FB or mechanical problems being inverted liek the us brit it jpn and russian aircraft had one of the mechanical advantages the 109 had over all other fighters of the time.

I cant wait for the flyable condor in fb, but we need the lancaster b17 and pe8 badly too.

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Bremspropeller
01-03-2004, 03:11 PM
A correct flown Loop normally doesn't exceed 2gs...so it's no problem even with the weak fuselage the Fw200 has http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



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DaBallz
01-03-2004, 03:40 PM
Those four Pratt&Whitney Hornets must have been
running at full power.

Sounds like a fairy tale since the Fw-200 was
notorious for structural failures.

Da

VW-IceFire
01-03-2004, 04:17 PM
Didn't he just state that a properly flown loop could be done with 2G's or were you ready to make some kind of structural engineering analysis?

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DaBallz
01-03-2004, 04:27 PM
As I said, one does not loop a plane that has
a history of structural failure.
Also one does not loop a 4 engined airliner.
The Condor was a big, under powered airliner
that was adapted to millitary service.
It takes a fair amount of power to make it
to the top of the loop, or a lot of speed built up.
I would not try that in an empty B-17. It had
a lot more power and was stressed for over 4g
loaded.
Again, it would be insane to try that in a Condor just for giggles.

Analysed enough for you?

Da

georgeo76
01-03-2004, 04:34 PM
Cool this reminds me of that commercial jet that did the barrel roll

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DaBallz
01-03-2004, 04:38 PM
That was an axial roll performed by the prototype
Boeing 707. The "-80" is now at the Smithstonian.
The account I saw on the telly, the test
pilot said he rolled it and zoomed into a vertical
climb above a boat with a bunch of airline exec's
aboard. Scared Hell out of em, but they were impressed.
The plane was empty except for flight crew.

Bremspropeller
01-03-2004, 04:50 PM
Haven't heard of something called "zoom" ?

If the 200 accelerates long enough to build up enough speed, it's no problem. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

There are lots of planes which could perform this maneuver of which you wouldn't even expect this ability.

Asfor the 707: this a/c was also underpowered and one broke apart above the Mt. Fuji (of BOAC)after a a strong stormgust.
There werde several occassions when 707s did the barrel roll and some of them lost one or more engines 'cause the pylons weren't designed for travelling upside down.

Remembering Heinz B√¬§r performing aerobatics with the good ole "Tante Ju" ?



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Freycinet
01-03-2004, 05:59 PM
According to a 1940's book I have on the Danish Airline DDL, the Focke-Wulf Kondor they bought did a loop as well, the day it was delivered to Copenhagen. There's a photo of the plane flying in to land, just after having looped (according to the image text).

The structural failures of the FW-200 happened to military machines. I think I read once that it was because they weighed more than the civilian Kondors, what with ventral gondola, armament and all that.

As for the Boeing 707 I saw the film clip of the two barrel rolls it did before airline executives. It was in a documentary on Boeing and Douglas.

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-04-2004, 04:50 AM
They rolled the Concorde and the 707 once.

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2 For with what judgment ye judge,
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horseback
01-04-2004, 12:09 PM
One of my earliest memories is of seeing a B-47 being rolled-and losing a wing. Probably at Mountain Home AFB, early fifties. One of my kindergarten classmates lost his dad (a crewman, not the pilot), and had to leave.

I mentioned the incident to my own dad a while ago, and he said something to the effect that the big difference between fighter and bomber pilot training is that fighter training kills off most of the hardcore knuckleheads.

Personally, outside of combat/wartime requirements, I don't think I'd ever consider risking someone else's life like that.

Cheers

horseback

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BBB_PzGrenni
01-12-2004, 05:26 PM
IUhave the book too! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif think it will online be good for Recon toohttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And I sure will test it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TX-EcoDragon
01-13-2004, 01:51 PM
A 2G loop would be remarkably huge, and would require a very powerful aircraft flying at low speed at teh start of it, and extremely fast on the downline, and would not end up being round.

Most Loops start and end with a 3.5-4 G pull.

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FliegerAas
01-13-2004, 02:33 PM
Wich version of the FW200?
I always read about the strucktural weakness of this plane, I thought that this problem was solved in the later Versions, correct me if I'm wrong...

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MiloMorai
01-13-2004, 03:54 PM
Just have to love WW2 myths.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The first Kondor A-AERE, PP-CBJ and PP-CBI used the P&Ws. After that it was BMW132s.

Tank and Sanders with 15 prominent passengers on board flew through a sever thunderstorm that had the a/c creaking and groaning. D-ADHR, W.Nr. 2893, landed OK in Saloniki.

Then there is D-ACON that landed in Manila Bay with nary a "hair knocked out of place". Iirc this a/c was dried out and flew again. On the flip side, the pilot Hanke was killed when he dove on an airfield and pulled up sharply causing the wing to fail.

The civilian Fw200B's weight was 11300kg(24900lb) while for the military Fw200C it was 12950kg(28550lb). For the military Fw200F it was 13447kg(29650lb). Fuel load was 2800kg(6170lb) for the B and 5948kg(13100lb) and 8795kg(19400lb) for the C and F respectively. TO weights were 17500kg(38580lb), 22700kg(42770lb) and 25260kg(55690lb) respectively.

Freycinet
01-13-2004, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BBB_PzGrenni:
IUhave the book too! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif think it will online be good for Recon toohttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And I sure will test it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you Danish?

Sure didn't expect anyone on these forums to have that book...

BBB_PzGrenni
01-13-2004, 05:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Are you Danish?

Sure didn't expect anyone on these forums to have that book...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Why Danish????
"Kurt Tank: Focke Wulf's Designer and test pilot" By Wolfgang Wagner -&gt; it's german... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif