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View Full Version : Bugged card “Ur-Jubaal’s Call” to be hotfixed (and more information)



del170109032657
05-15-2014, 03:36 PM
Dear players,

There is currently a card in the game that is not being used as we originally intended. The card in question is the “Ur-Jubaal’s Call” Inferno fortune. While our next major patch (which is planned to include a way to forfeit Daily Quests) is being prepared for a later release, we are currently working on an additional update to correct this card as quickly as possible. A hotfix for the problem is scheduled for next week before the first Road to Paris Gold Cup.

Unfortunately, the way the game is currently built prevents us from applying an immediate correction to the problem. At the moment, we need to wait for approval from our partners and have no control over this. The dev team, however, is exploring options for streamlining this process in the future for faster reaction times.

More importantly, as that this hotfix will be released in the next week, we have decided not to punish players using this bug or to exclude the card from the Road to Paris Silver Cup on May 17th and 18th. The card is not dominating all areas of gameplay and there is still potential for players to play around Ur-Jubaal’s Call. By adjusting rules and then changing them again in a week, we would be creating unneeded confusion in the player base.

In addition to Ur-Jubaal’s Call, the following bugs will be fixed in next week’s hotfix:


Fixed a bug where Ariana could not use her ability on creatures with Dark Ward.
Fixed a bug where improper damage was dealt to an enemy’s Hero when using Sacrificial Pit under certain conditions.
Fixed a bug with Shalan, Voice of the Lotus where creature cards were not reduced in cost if they were returned to your hand from the opponent's side of the board.
Fixed a bug where Djinn Catalyst could also reduce the cost of creature cards.

We’ll keep you updated as soon as we have more information on the exact timing of this hotfix.

The MMDoC Team

http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/s05/large/s05_For_Inf_070.jpg

The above card was designed to be playable only if your opponent has already discarded at least one card this turn, as clearly described. Unfortunately, a bug made its way into the game and makes the card it playable even if you discarded this turn. This issue will be corrected in the upcoming hotfix.

L4m4B4l0n1k
05-15-2014, 04:40 PM
Honestly,
As I thought you will continue to disappoint us with each single step, until only bug abusers will be left there.
After terrible economic changes, failure Road to Paris system (just look at Bronze Cup!), you decide to stand on abusers side spitting in the faces of us, who decided to follow rules during so called R2P. As promised in my Open Letter, I will drop from Gold Cup and this entire unfair competition, where some people qualified only because they were abusing bugs... and don't tell me that Scotty doesn't know, because we have spotted even an abusing ViP member, but I guess you won't care, since you like cheaters and abusers. Probably I should wish you luck, but I won't since rivers of disappointment are already flooding...

L4m4B4l0n1k

twardy_
05-15-2014, 05:01 PM
well like they say 'better late than never'

nah im joking, its so funny that it took you goys 40 days from the HoN release to fix things like this

jkk89
05-15-2014, 05:08 PM
It's not fixed yet. We still have to wait for it to be actually fixed. And meanwhile all players have the formal approval for abuse the bug. :) I cannot wait to play, I will abuse it so hard. Who else wanna abuse? Let's all abuse, since the official channel says we are free to do so :)

Road2Abuse is still on guys!



Edit: On a more serious note: I did not expect the penalties, since: Lex retro non agit. But I hoped You will atleast say that abusing the card is not approved.

svilleneuve
05-15-2014, 06:35 PM
Not approving the use of a card means banning it. It also means communicating this to each and every player that are Champion I or higher and making sure they know the card is banned (because we can't do it manually on such a short notice). This means we have to put systems in place, so that you can report a cheater and prove he cheated, and ban the guy from the tournament. And then when the fix gets here in a week or so, we'll have to make sure each and every players knows the card is unbanned... That's pretty confusing.

It's a heavy system if you ask me. Especially for a few days of tournament. It's an unfortunate situation, with no good solution. The good news is, the fix is on the way.

Of course, I don't think it's okay to abuse bugs in order to win, but since we don't have ways to deal with this efficiently yet, and especially since the fix is coming soon, I think it's better not to create more confusion by trying to ban a card for just 1 week.

Quarison
05-15-2014, 07:06 PM
Not approving the use of a card means banning it. It also means communicating this to each and every player that are Champion I or higher and making sure they know the card is banned (because we can't do it manually on such a short notice). This means we have to put systems in place, so that you can report a cheater and prove he cheated, and ban the guy from the tournament. And then when the fix gets here in a week or so, we'll have to make sure each and every players knows the card is unbanned... That's pretty confusing.

It's a heavy system if you ask me. Especially for a few days of tournament. It's an unfortunate situation, with no good solution. The good news is, the fix is on the way.

Of course, I don't think it's okay to abuse bugs in order to win, but since we don't have ways to deal with this efficiently yet, and especially since the fix is coming soon, I think it's better not to create more confusion by trying to ban a card for just 1 week.

I absolutely agree your points.

The problem is, Lots of players are not examining thoroughly while they're playing. As i mentioned in some of my posts, the text that defines Dark Ward needs to be changed too. An Arch Lich can not attack Shi-no-Shi, but if we look at the text, it CLEARLY says that it affects ONLY SPELLS damage & effects, or a Banshee can not kill the Shi-no-Shi. All because they are Dark Type CREATURES.

The problem here is, Dhamiria Mass Rage deck is powerful, with using the Ur-Juball's Call unintended or intended way. It's much more of a burden card for that Deck and only needed If your opponent discards some of your damage sources. This is what i was trying to tell all that attacks me especially with brutally, but empty messages.

Thanks to you Jason and whoever was debating about the decision was made about this, and their ability to see that Ur-Juball's Call's unintended way usage is not a domination. Hope our experienced, deckbuilder and Gold tournament well-earned players will see that sometime in future too!

Finally, it's really good to see a changelog about detailed bugfixes, small but surely a good step for improvement of the game.

Boke_WE
05-15-2014, 07:37 PM
Of course, I don't think it's okay to abuse bugs in order to win, but since we don't have ways to deal with this efficiently yet, and especially since the fix is coming soon, I think it's better not to create more confusion by trying to ban a card for just 1 week.

Really you dont have ways to deal with this issue? newsletters, official forums, r2p webpage, etc etc you got the tools to spread the things to all the players easily (you got all our emails) and forbid the use of this card. You got a team of admins to care for r2p tourney, press report and "my opp use ur jubal bug" check and give win or lost.

You got the tools, hard to do? maybe, more work? sure, but chose the easy way and argue that is cause you dont have a way to deal with.... is not the best decission that you should take. But who cares, one more stone in the pile of fails...

Nillicomes
05-15-2014, 08:01 PM
It's not fixed yet. We still have to wait for it to be actually fixed. And meanwhile all players have the formal approval for abuse the bug. :) I cannot wait to play, I will abuse it so hard. Who else wanna abuse? Let's all abuse, since the official channel says we are free to do so :)

Road2Abuse is still on guys!

Edit: On a more serious note: I did not expect the penalties, since: Lex retro non agit. But I hoped You will atleast say that abusing the card is not approved.

Please no Jkkkkkkk. Don't even try to get someone to consider it!!!!!

Simon you shouldn't take that communication thing so hard - they know they are abusing - they are taking the chance themselves and I am pretty sure they are "all" aware of it. If they will get banned it can't be a surprise anyway imo.

bluekiitos
05-15-2014, 09:00 PM
We knew that the card was bugged since the first day the new expansion came out.
It is absurd that for more than a month the Duel of Champions team didn't say or do anything. They didn't even acknowledge the bug oficially.
The only reason that they finally said something is because the community was fed up with the bug abusers and l4m4 wrote his open letter.
And how did the team respond? They just made it official that they had no intention of doing anything.

I understand that it takes some time to release a patch, and that not everything is as straight-forward as we players might think behind the courtains... but the team ( i don't know who exactly is responsable) is just bad at handling these situations, as they have proven numerous times in the past. I am sick of hearing the same excuses over and over again, and always the same promises. Nothing seems to have changed, the conduct of the team is poor and unprofessional. I feel it is a true shame because the game itself is extremely good, but now I think that I should just stop caring.

Pjovejas
05-15-2014, 09:18 PM
Actually, can someone tell me how Ubi managed to become one of the bigest game publishers? Since I'm familiar with this company only from HoMM universe side (since HoMM V). An in all this franchise there were so many mistakes/bad decisions/ bad environment management and so on... That I can't imagine how a company could manage to become so famous...

LQDBrunt
05-15-2014, 09:41 PM
Actually, can someone tell me how Ubi managed to become one of the bigest game publishers? Since I'm familiar with this company only from HoMM universe side (since HoMM V). An in all this franchise there were so many mistakes/bad decisions/ bad environment management and so on... That I can't imagine how a company could manage to become so famous...

I have asked myself that many times before. I mean, they have good games, but the way they manage it is just below any standard.
Also I think they have the best art department in business at this moment. I mean just look at the recent Child of Light, amazing.

Dsdnv
05-15-2014, 09:41 PM
Not approving the use of a card means banning it. It also means communicating this to each and every player that are Champion I or higher and making sure they know the card is banned (because we can't do it manually on such a short notice). This means we have to put systems in place, so that you can report a cheater and prove he cheated, and ban the guy from the tournament. And then when the fix gets here in a week or so, we'll have to make sure each and every players knows the card is unbanned... That's pretty confusing.

It's a heavy system if you ask me. Especially for a few days of tournament. It's an unfortunate situation, with no good solution. The good news is, the fix is on the way.

Of course, I don't think it's okay to abuse bugs in order to win, but since we don't have ways to deal with this efficiently yet, and especially since the fix is coming soon, I think it's better not to create more confusion by trying to ban a card for just 1 week.

I know you're already working on changes to game infastructure so you can apply fixes faster but I just wanna throw out an idea that could easily refrain people from abusing a card that you know is not working as intended. You talk about how banning a card is difficult because you have to communicate with the whole community to do so and actively ban cheaters but you dont have to do any of this if you just add single line to format rules banning the use of the card in question. That way players cant use the card in their decks because deck validation will automatically flag their deck as "unplayable" while the card is in. Ofc this won't work if changing format rules requires an apple approved patch but seeing how weeklies change without any patch or maintenance I doubt that is the case.

trupiciel
05-15-2014, 09:43 PM
Woow...

bluekiitos
05-15-2014, 09:55 PM
Ofc this won't work if changing format rules requires an apple approved patch but seeing how weeklies change without any patch or maintenance I doubt that is the case.

Actually all the formats are already written inside an xml file. So your suggestion sadly wouldn't work, to change something like that they would have to patch the game.

Dsdnv
05-15-2014, 09:59 PM
Actually all the formats are already written inside an xml file. So your suggestion sadly wouldn't work, to change something like that they would have to patch the game.

Yeah actually just talked to Jason about it and he confirmed the same thing. Too bad but hope they implement serverside banning of cards in the future to prevent this farce from happening again.

zenithale
05-15-2014, 10:52 PM
Sure, it seems reeeeeally hard to add a red warning in the R2P site (<-- remember those guys who messed up with the Bronze tournament), on the profil page, to explain this card is only allowed if you use it right during the tournament.
Seriously, I am at lost for words...

Kingtyrese
05-15-2014, 10:59 PM
we have decided not to punish players using this bug or to exclude the card from the Road to Paris Silver Cup on May 17th and 18th. [/I]

lol so basically this tournament is just a big joke and doesn't even promote fair play.

npavcec
05-16-2014, 01:42 AM
lol so basically this tournament is just a big joke and doesn't even promote fair play.

I don't understand why are you such an snappish bunch - the card works as it works - it is definitely not a game-winner, it is just a bit annoying (from aestetic point of view) that it doesn't do exactly as it is described. Big deal! It is the same environment for everybody - you can chose to use or not, but it is IMHO definitely not a cheat because EVERYBODY can use it if they want and all about it is known to everybody. Imagine you have cards without descriptions (just picture) and all the players need to figure out by themselves what each card does (and type it on them) - would you still yell abuse, abuse?!

Normally, here I would continue with scientific arguments from the System Theory about Input / black box / Output concept and its relation and usage in the Game Theory, but meh.. don't feel like typing. ;)

Kingtyrese
05-16-2014, 02:40 AM
If you look at the head of e-sports right now, league of legends for example, they will simply disallow the use of a champion in a particular tournament if it's bugged or broken even if any team could potentially pick or ban it to their benefit. Even if it is the same environment for everyone, if you want to host an official tournament and be taken seriously, you probably should not let a bug like this slide and expect everyone to be ok with it.

The problem isn't the fact that this card may or may not be a game winner, it's the principle behind the fact that someone who plays this card for its unintended uses will have an unfair advantage for that turn. In an imperfect world where everyone plays only dhamiria and ignatius, then yes this bug would be totally fair for everyone, but that still wouldn't make this tournament any less stupid than one without bugs.

holynecro
05-16-2014, 06:03 AM
now ill explain you the most disgusting human nature. we are selfish creatures from the moment we exist. did anyone wonder why some honorable people started flaming urjuba users these days? why didnt they write from the beginning of the release of that card? what were these people of haven who executes the hell spawn doing in that period? but i know a man who did write about urjuba and got no answers from ubisoft. named quarison and the honorable players of doc the executionars of evil jumped on him. because their 4 cloud djin decks started to lose. their full card decks started to lose so they decided to defend this honorable cause. where the frap were you after the release? they wanted blood that honorable players.

Gouster
05-16-2014, 07:40 AM
Isnt it obvious? Loosing a few games in ladder is nothing compared to getting disqualified from a tournament

bambikitkat
05-16-2014, 07:44 AM
Stop qqing and either use the card or dont, its your choice after all, and know its official so you cant hide yourself behind fake rules.

Btw played against quarison in JP yesterday , he didnt have the time to even play one of those, just build your deck smartly.

IBURNUALL
05-16-2014, 08:09 AM
This game has gone to absolute ****! why are any of you surprised by this decision?

Hell if bronze cup & silver cup have to deal with the bug during their tournaments, why should gold cup get a free pass ?

Gold cup getting more of that red carpet treatment I see.

While the rest of us are treated like lab rats.

Hell, we still have not heard what our compensation will be for us bronze cup players after the huge bug we had to deal with.

Bronze cup got stuck dealing with Ur-Jabaal's bug and a bug with the tournament.

This update should not even be put into effect till AFTER gold cup to keep the integrity of the R2P.

If bronze and silver had to deal with it then so should gold.

I am going to be perfectly honest here, and state that I have no idea how you possibly keep your jobs. How this game continues its pitiful existance, with the way you ppl handle things is beyond my comprehension. Management at Ubisoft seems downright out of their friggen minds. Whoever runs this game is nuttier than squirrel poop.

1st of all the person who did card balance should be fired honestly the balance is horrible for both standard and open. Its worse now than ever. Whoever thought Lava Spawns were balanced was insane. Then he makes NECRO op as all hell, boneyard,banshee,atropos,soulreaver,etc. Then he kills off all other spell schools but leaves insect swarm and gyser around so that necro will just be that much more OP. I would love to ask whoever did the balance WHY he chose what he did because this is FAR FAR from a balanced format. Hell I would even say the game was more balanced BEFORE the patch. How he has his job still is anyones guess. Perhaps he could make a thread detailing how exactly he went about balancing this game.

Jason, I dont even know exactly what it is you do there so I dunno if you deserve to be fired TBH I think your mostly PR and damage control than anything else in this game.

Kimmundi, your just too likeable and nice to be fired for anything.

Also, the design team who made HON needs a good revamping. Fire whoever thought Lavaspawn & Boneyard was a good idea.

Also, Fire whoever in the hell thought up daily quests without thinking of a simple cancel button. Also win a swiss seriously ? your expecting noobs to win a swiss ? or did you just purposely create a wall to lock players from wildcards on purpose to get them to pay money ?

This team that runs this game is just honestly, horrible in my opinion. A seriously revamping needs to happen somewhere or you guys just need to get your heads outa your you know whats.

Also this is just a final thing and a word of advice if I'm correct. It would appear and seem as if development,balancing & economy teams seem to work separately from one another. From the way this game looks and all the issues that are happening this is how it appears. You guys should really work as one cohesive unit, working separately from one another makes it feel like there is different methodology's being applied to the game all at once and it just seems a mess. It definitely does not feel like your all on the same boat.

bambikitkat
05-16-2014, 08:26 AM
Dont be so mad dude, the patch is incoming soon since 2 weeks, and each day is sooner, so soon you'll come back here, and laugh together with us to see how hard they failed even more once this patch is out.

Pjovejas
05-16-2014, 09:33 AM
1st of all the person who did card balance should be fired honestly the balance is horrible for both standard and open. Its worse now than ever. Whoever thought Lava Spawns were balanced was insane. Then he makes NECRO op as all hell, boneyard,banshee,atropos,soulreaver,etc. Then he kills off all other spell schools but leaves insect swarm and gyser around so that necro will just be that much more OP. I would love to ask whoever did the balance WHY he chose what he did because this is FAR FAR from a balanced format. Hell I would even say the game was more balanced BEFORE the patch. How he has his job still is anyones guess. Perhaps he could make a thread detailing how exactly he went about balancing this game.

J

And here comes INBURNUALL, famous expert of balancing (as we have seen in other threads) and ruins the whole idea of this discussion, because he agrees with the OP :D

npavcec
05-16-2014, 11:18 AM
the balance is horrible for both standard and open. Its worse now than ever.

I know I should not replay to the loads of nonsences you wrote, but the quoted is just NOT true. Balance in standard is awesome. I think that meta never really had so much different playable options..

malkorion
05-16-2014, 11:31 AM
Kimmundi and Jason are not responsible for the game's development, so there is no point attacking them, even if they are trying to sugarcoat the bad things in the game. I don't blame them, as they are innocent in this.

But all of this just seems rushed to me. Only a month has passed since BS2 patch, and you already want to run a tournament, even though you still have game breaking bugs that you need to fix. Take your time, polish the game, listen to the players.

I actually feel better that I've quit since I don't have to deal with the stress.

Jarema03
05-16-2014, 12:38 PM
[SIZE=3]
Fixed a bug where Ariana could not use her ability on creatures with Dark Ward.

Will the same problem with Siham's ability be fixed too?

Pjovejas
05-16-2014, 02:53 PM
Kimmundi and Jason are not responsible for the game's development, so there is no point attacking them, even if they are trying to sugarcoat the bad things in the game. I don't blame them, as they are innocent in this.


The problem in such cases is that if we look like this, there will never be "bad" persons, who are sresponsible for stupid decision.
Silleneuve is not responsible, since he is responsible for creating cards and balance (and I think, I'm most gratefull to him, if he is responsible for creating such game, which is and has such a big pottential :));
Kimmundi and Jason are not responsible since they are only introducing bad decisiuons and trying to polish them as much as possible... right?...

Then wait: who is responsible? Who is that face of Ubi, that could say: "I made all those stupid marketing decision"; "I redesigned economy"; "I am organizing the whole work in such a mess that a simple bugs take ages to fix"????

Customer has to know the person, since choice "someone somewhere in the shadows" doesn't work and people are sick of such arguments. The "collective responsibility" is actually "no responsibility".

And what makes me sad, such "no responsibility" is slowly killing the game that I liked...
I see it every day, when I see the message "you finished JP being x out of ~1400, or even less" when even in open beta we sometimes had more... I see it everytime, when timer hits 1 minute waiting for a duel; I see it everytime while waiting for more than 1 minute for swiss to start.
And actually I understand now why more and more of my old "friend list" is becoming inactive...

ioulios
05-16-2014, 04:36 PM
stop crying people if u dont like the game just quit it and go for other games.Game is like this play it or leave it

Gadjemil
05-16-2014, 04:47 PM
stop crying people if u dont like the game just quit it and go for other games.Game is like this play it or leave it



lol, what a great answer! I think DoC is losing enough players as it is without you telling them to leave. I bet when the game servers close because of a lack of players, you will be so happy...

God forbid devs actually pay attention to feedback and improve their game, they are perfect the game is perfect, right?

svilleneuve
05-16-2014, 04:50 PM
Silleneuve is not responsible, since he is responsible for creating cards and balance (and I think, I'm most gratefull to him, if he is responsible for creating such game, which is and has such a big pottential :));

I'll take credit where it's due. I didn't create the game but I helped shape it. I didn't design the basic rules, like the rows and lines. I've been running card balancing full-time since Forgotten Wars.


Then wait: who is responsible? Who is that face of Ubi, that could say: "I made all those stupid marketing decision"; "I redesigned economy"; "I am organizing the whole work in such a mess that a simple bugs take ages to fix"????

Do you honestly think that someone somewhere made the decision to shape our game in a way that makes us unreactive? Believe me, it's frustrating for us too to be stuck with such a long wait time to release a fix. Sometimes it takes a while to fix altogether, but there's tons of other stuff slowing us down. When we started this project, we couldn't foresee every problem we would face down the line and now we're kinda stuck with a system that holds us back. Also, the last patch took a lot of time to make but on top of that, it prevented us from updating the game with a smaller patch in between. We changed the engine, which requires tons of work. If we had wanted to do another update before HoN, we would've had to do that update twice, once for each engine, which is very counter-productive in the end.

To be more reactive, we want to migrate as much stuff as possible to the servers so that there's no client update required when we wanna do a small patch, like a nerf or banning a card from a format. This is tedious work because it puts more load on the servers, but it'll happen. I'm pretty sure we'll have an easy ban (banning a card) button really soon.

As far as the economy goes, I'm not a specialist, but I'll do my best to put things in perspective. F2P economy seems all simple, but it's not. You got to find the sweetspot where it's not pay 2 win nor a grindfest.

I think the new economy is a step in the right direction, because we were litterally heading for a wall. With the system that we had, we couldn't control what was given through grinding and what was given through paying. It was too easy to grind instead of buying and because both "economies" were mixed together, it was also much harder to see the solution. Now that both are completely separate, we have more control over the economy.

It's a step in the right direction, but we're certainly not in the sweetspot right now. It's hard to tell because everyone is still in the mindset that seals should be free. Don't ask for free seals if you're a grinder, ask for cheaper packs in gold, ask for more WCs, that's more likely to happen than going back to free seals. Now other people are saying that it's not worth paying seals to get cards, maybe that's true, I'm not saying the numbers are right, as I said, I don't know the first thing about economy.

Portios86
05-16-2014, 05:04 PM
I know I should not replay to the loads of nonsences you wrote, but the quoted is just NOT true. Balance in standard is awesome. I think that meta never really had so much different playable options..

You must be a troll or something worse :confused: This is not the right thread to talk about balance but... what are you playing?? Open only? Open format is going to die soon or later thx to the currency used to buy old packs, seals. The meta is mostly standard, wich has the worst balance that I have ever seen in any game with such a small card pool.

We have 6 fractions and 2 of them are absolutely out from standard: Haven and sanctuary, both almost unplayable, not a single T1 deck for those fractions, worse than any T2 deck from every other fraction like necro (if necro have T2 decks...) . The whole haven mechanic is extremely underpowered and frustrating, sanctuary has horrible early drops while necro, stronghold and inferno have awesome creatures and cards out of every deck, just because priority cards are even more awesome. Well, takana is playable atleast, and Noboru has dark magic, wich automatically makes your deck a strong deck. Haven/ sanctuary decks aren´t even as strong as legacy Adar malik/Ariana were, and they were from "the weak fraction"... If you are talking about legacy format then, ok, we have even more cards to troll with mass rage decks. Also, If im wrong and you know a troll mass rage standard deck I tell you something: thats not how haven is supposed to be played or how haven players want to play haven.

Im not gonna keep crying about problematic standard cards or balance issues here, since it´s not the right thread but, please, don´t troll us saying that a meta with 2 unplayable fractions and other balance issues is a "diverse meta", with "different playable options".

Portios86
05-16-2014, 05:11 PM
Ok svilleneuve, I understand that, and you gave me some hope to put on this game, thanks.

by the way you are right about economy, and I think you guys did a great job there, but it´s not a finished job, you need to work a bit more on daily quests. Also, old expansions only available with seals was a bad idea, thats gonna hurt Open a lot.

Im a grinder, I bought some seals in the past, but Im mostly a farmer, and I can tell you that farming isn´t frsutrating in this game unless you are doing a tedious quest but...Its well done, I have an inmense card pool, only missing a few not important cards so I´m only farming for HoN and I´m not playing the whole day. I´ll make a thread with some suggestions to help the economy but it´s working well Imo.

M0rw47h
05-16-2014, 05:14 PM
You must be a troll or something worse :confused: This is not the right thread to talk about balance but... what are you playing?? Open only? Open format is going to die soon or later thx to the currency used to buy old packs, seals. The meta is mostly standard, wich has the worst balance that I have ever seen in any game with such a small card pool.

We have 6 fractions and 2 of them are absolutely out from standard: Haven and sanctuary, both almost unplayable, not a single T1 deck for those fractions, worse than any T2 deck from every other fraction like necro (if necro have T2 decks...) . The whole haven mechanic is extremely underpowered and frustrating, sanctuary has horrible early drops while necro, stronghold and inferno have awesome creatures and cards out of every deck, just because priority cards are even more awesome. Well, takana is playable atleast, and Noboru has dark magic, wich automatically makes your deck a strong deck. Haven/ sanctuary decks aren´t even as strong as legacy Adar malik/Ariana were, and they were from "the weak fraction"... If you are talking about legacy format then, ok, we have even more cards to troll with mass rage decks. Also, If im wrong and you know a troll mass rage standard deck I tell you something: thats not how haven is supposed to be played or how haven players want to play haven.

Im not gonna keep crying about problematic standard cards or balance issues here, since it´s not the right thread but, please, don´t troll us saying that a meta with 2 unplayable fractions and other balance issues is a "diverse meta", with "different playable options".

...but Standard is more balanced than MMDoC ever was.

Portios86
05-16-2014, 05:29 PM
How is that possible M0rw47h? I started playing in September, in the forggoten wars age, every fraction had more than one tier1 deck and a lot of decent and fun tier2 decks, necro beeing the "weak" fraction with two strong decks, Malik wich was very strong against creature decks but weak vs stall (people refused to play price of the void) and ariana, wich was weak vs heavy rush, but necro was very playable and decent.

Maybe I´m wrong about standard, maybe there are atleast 1 very strong haven deck and another very strong sanctuary deck but those are 2 fractions out of the game...

maybe im missing something really important about haven/sanctuary in standard. And let me tell you, I win a lot of games in ladder and swiss with my standard Morgan deck (hint: not a retaliation deck) but the fraction is extremely underpowered.

thanasis
05-16-2014, 05:53 PM
by the way you are right about economy, and I think you guys did a great job there
!!!


I´ll make a thread with some suggestions to help the economy but it´s working well Imo.
!!!


I have an inmense card pool, only missing a few not important cards
That explains a lot of things.

zenithale
05-16-2014, 06:21 PM
(

why didnt they write from the beginning of the release of that card?
The bug has been reported one month ago on the VIP forum, and maybe even earlier elsewhere (Support?).
At the beginning there were not so many abuse, but as the weeks went, more and more people learned that bug and more and more abuse it
)

Portios86
05-16-2014, 06:45 PM
!!!


!!!


That explains a lot of things.

I started having nothing, with the haven starter deck. It explains a lot of things, my friend.

The economy is perfectly fine for veterans and almost like it used to be for new players. New players need to buy cheap base set 2 packs. When having enough base set cards, they should go for the only available expansion, HoN. While they do this, they get as much wildcards as they can (I know, WC are hard to get for new players). When they finally have a good card pool, getting wildcards is a lot easier and they only need them for those missing cards from base set and the expansion.

The economy is bad only for new players trying to play Open format, wich isn´t a true option.

As I said I was going to make a thread but it´s quite simple so I´ll put it here:
- Give all the starter decks for everyone (like in heartstone) so they can do daily quests easier and they have that feeling of getting useful cards with every pack they open.
- Make old expansions available for gold (with no wildcards inside if you use gold).
- Fix daily quest system (remove quest button).

That´s all.

IBURNUALL
05-16-2014, 08:15 PM
BTW when you guys do fix the quest lines to be skippable you guys wannna return the 10 + DAYS, prolly 30+ DAYS after yoiu finally patch it WC's Ive lost for not being able to complete the win a swiss quest ? I only lost like 60 WC for absolutely no reason there goes 2 epics for absolutely no reason. Great pay wall guys.

That would be nice to return my missing WC but I highly doubt thats happening. So TBH if you even fix the game properly im not even sure im going to come back losing epics due to your companys stupidity doesnt really have me wanting to come back to play. If you check my account since the new ranking for R2P I havent played a single game still champ 1 0 points. I come on to get infernal deals and then go on to something else.

Perhaps if theres some good worthwhile compensation for all my missing WC maybe I will continue to play.

IBURNUALL
05-16-2014, 08:56 PM
http://troll.me?p=642761

if anyone can figure out how to post the actuall image that would be nice :D BEST MMDOC MEME EVER OF JASON PARADISE LOL

Kataklysm6661
05-16-2014, 09:04 PM
BTW when you guys do fix the quest lines to be skippable you guys wannna return the 10 + DAYS, prolly 30+ DAYS after yoiu finally patch it WC's Ive lost for not being able to complete the win a swiss quest ? I only lost like 60 WC for absolutely no reason there goes 2 epics for absolutely no reason. Great pay wall guys.

That would be nice to return my missing WC but I highly doubt thats happening. So TBH if you even fix the game properly im not even sure im going to come back losing epics due to your companys stupidity doesnt really have me wanting to come back to play. If you check my account since the new ranking for R2P I havent played a single game still champ 1 0 points. I come on to get infernal deals and then go on to something else.

Perhaps if theres some good worthwhile compensation for all my missing WC maybe I will continue to play.


http://troll.me?p=642761

if anyone can figure out how to post the actuall image that would be nice :D BEST MMDOC MEME EVER OF JASON PARADISE LOL


You didn't "lose" anything, and you are not "owed" anything. Maybe you simply aren't resourceful enough to grab the bonus stuff that is proposed to you, like WC, in addition to all the hours of gaming that you had with DoC, all for free.

Sorry to be blunt here but your constant childish whining doesn't help a bit. We are doing our absolute best here, and we know it's not perfect, thank you. Constructive comments are one thing, but your posts are close to being personal attacks that only bring a negative vibe to what is supposed to be - unless I'm mistaken - a GAME. Time to grow up, dude. You've been warned.

IBURNUALL
05-16-2014, 09:19 PM
LOL im not personally ATTACKING anyone did i state jason paradise your a bad person ? its a meme dude why so serious ? lol its meant to be funny not a personal attack >.> lol

but in all seriousness I did lose WC everyday you put win a swiss in front of my face with no way to skip it

"#1Maybe you simply aren't resourceful enough to grab the bonus stuff that is proposed to you, #2like WC, in addition to all the hours of gaming that you had with DoC, all for free. "

#1 being resourceful has nothing to do with completeing a quest that gives you a limited number of trys due to needing tickets to enter and if you fail and run out of tickets what then huih ?
#2 like all the hours I could have spend on League of Legends instead and not be screwed for my influence points ?

To be blunt we dont have to play this game in turn leaving you with no job and no mmdoc or being reassigned to something else. We the players have a right to voice our dissatisfaction and we will continue to do so until something satisfactory has been accomplished. I dont care if my constant whinning is useless I will continue to do so until change happens, and in a way that's like directly saying our feedback is useless as all feedback is is players whinning,

Heck I didnt even recieve this supposed compensation players supposedly recieved yesterday for waiting 3 hours for my bronze cup match I haven't recieved nothing yet, guess I don't deserve that and am not owed that eighter huh ?

Perhaps you let anger get the better of you.

I don't personally attack jason paradise I love the guy hes the only one around here who I would actually say deserves his spot.

A meme is meant to be funny not a personal attack on said person.

and I didnt personally attack you and call you out for being the card balancer in my post about the balance issue did I so how did I personally attack you sir ?

Aegon82
05-16-2014, 09:25 PM
To be more reactive, we want to migrate as much stuff as possible to the servers so that there's no client update required when we wanna do a small patch, like a nerf or banning a card from a format. This is tedious work because it puts more load on the servers, but it'll happen. I'm pretty sure we'll have an easy ban (banning a card) button really soon.

Seriously, was it that hard to imagine it before releasing the game?
That an ONLINE game should have the core of the game on YOUR servers, in order to be able to patch things from YOUR side?
We can have all the images and that kind of stuff on our computers/iPad, which is the biggest part after all.
But things like rules, formats (incredible you have only a handful weekly formats programmed and can't add more until next patch) and all of those should be obviously on your servers.

ZergRusher
05-16-2014, 10:55 PM
...but Standard is more balanced than MMDoC ever was.
depending what's your meaning of "balanced". In open you can find heroes from every race that are viable in JP environment, in STD 2 races are left behind. Surely, open has its problems - it's more matchup dependent and Iggy is terrorizing most decks outside of Cassandra/ Water spell rushes/Ishuma spectrum. But you can be successful with a lot of heroes and every faction in OPN JP or ladder.

malkorion
05-16-2014, 11:53 PM
The only reason why Haven sucks in Standard is because you don't have your precious Wolf Captains, which I hate btw. Such an undercosted beatstick.

Irgy_
05-17-2014, 02:50 PM
When a card doesn't work as intended, you can do one of two things

1. The card works how it works and no-one should feel bad about playing it the way it works.

2. All use of the card is banned, and people caught doing it will be banned disqualified etc.

The first thing people need to do is accept that either is an acceptable policy. There's reasons to pick one or the other but they both can work.

What doesn't work, and why this has been such a sh*tfight, is when some people think it's 1 and others think it's 2. The only people who've done the wrong thing here are the ones who are reponsible for telling us which it was is but didn't. And kind of implied it was 2 in some places but didn't follow through with it. What annoys me is even still they make excuses for not fixing it sooner but not fixing it sooner isn't the problem anyway. You can take months to fix it, as long as we know what to do in the meantime. Don't apologise for not fixing it, apologise for not communicating.

But the fact is, it's fixed now because there's a policy. It's 1. A perfectly sensible choice I think too. At this point, everyone needs to get off their high horses, get over themselves and accept that what's happened is poor communication from above and nothing else. No one is abusing, cheating and in need of banning under policy 1. Policy 1 is not doing nothing, it's saying you can play the card too now if you want and you can no longer tell anyone else they shouldn't. There's nothing to complain about, no-one sould be disqualified when the rules weren't clear. Let's all just grow up and move on.

Quarison
05-18-2014, 02:59 AM
When a card doesn't work as intended, you can do one of two things

1. The card works how it works and no-one should feel bad about playing it the way it works.

2. All use of the card is banned, and people caught doing it will be banned disqualified etc.

The first thing people need to do is accept that either is an acceptable policy. There's reasons to pick one or the other but they both can work.

What doesn't work, and why this has been such a sh*tfight, is when some people think it's 1 and others think it's 2. The only people who've done the wrong thing here are the ones who are reponsible for telling us which it was is but didn't. And kind of implied it was 2 in some places but didn't follow through with it. What annoys me is even still they make excuses for not fixing it sooner but not fixing it sooner isn't the problem anyway. You can take months to fix it, as long as we know what to do in the meantime. Don't apologise for not fixing it, apologise for not communicating.

But the fact is, it's fixed now because there's a policy. It's 1. A perfectly sensible choice I think too. At this point, everyone needs to get off their high horses, get over themselves and accept that what's happened is poor communication from above and nothing else. No one is abusing, cheating and in need of banning under policy 1. Policy 1 is not doing nothing, it's saying you can play the card too now if you want and you can no longer tell anyone else they shouldn't. There's nothing to complain about, no-one sould be disqualified when the rules weren't clear. Let's all just grow up and move on.


I don't think 2nd choice is even viable here.

First, why are you banning the "intended" usage of the card?

Second and most important part is, this card is a new card, so we did not had any reference point to look at. For instance the Week of Austerity bug that started at HotV times, we had a reference point. We had that card back in the day and we knew how it works, as it's written. And we had/have nearly all of the cards that work as WRITTEN. But did we see any examples like this? Of course.

Now you need to check if this is a game changing effect that increases win ratio of the games. As i mentioned before, Dark Ward spell's explanation needs to be updated too. It does not only protects from dark SPELLS, but also from CREATURES. When you look at the description, it's CLEARLY written as SPELLS. Most of the players are not even thinking why i can't kill a Shi-no-Shi with a Banshee? In how many games you're using a Banshee, or a Dark Type creature to attack Shi-no-Shi? If we look all the game data, i don't think it will be more than %1, and what's the effect of this to that games' outcome.

Now, when you look at Ur-Juball's Call, in how many games does that bug or unintended usage of the card changes phase of the game. This is the core material to look at, and as a Dhamiria Mass Rage player, I always said it's less than %5, and i'm sure of it. Any player who opposes can create a deck and test it.

Most of the rage that comes to this buggy card is, players do not like stall decks, and they're looking for excuses. And that bug has created a perfect spot to jump right in. Card's unintended usage is a nice card? No, it's an uncommon still from my point of view. The Card's intended usage needs to be an uncommon? Of course NOT!. It needs to be common, it only works in discard decks which has no value in this meta.

I don't have much data to speak of, devs sure have plenty of it. And they must have checked it before making any announcements.

And to the all players in this forum that defends that, this card is SO OP because of the unintended usage, can always make a deck that contains 4 Ur-Juball's Call, make a 50 win streak. Nobody is stopping you till next patch. inorite?

Portios86
05-18-2014, 02:30 PM
I don´t think it just hate on stall decks. I think that the fact of a card beeing bugged, strong, and played even in a tournament makes people angry. They have enough reasons Imo.

Btw stall decks are diverse and interesting, but they lack balance, specially in Open. I don´t really care since open will die in a few months, but they should have more interactive. They just have too many cheap ways to deal with creatures and mass removals.

Irgy_
05-19-2014, 02:05 AM
Quarison, I don't understand what your text has to do with the post of mine that you've quoted above, other than the first two lines. The subtext of my post was defending you if anything so why you're launching into a big argumentative post in response is beyond me.


I don't think 2nd choice is even viable here.

The 2nd choice is viable any time the bug can be consciously avoided, which includes this case.

Week of Austerity for instance the bug just happened on its own, the only choice a player makes is to use the card, so banning would mean banning the card entirely and that would disrupt the meta more than the bug did - which doesn't mean they couldn't do it but it would make it a bad choice. Crag Hack on the other hand you had to do something you generally had no other reason to do in order to trigger it.

You don't give a reason why it isn't viable so I can't really see what else to say. What I will add though is that in order to implement 2, they need to make a clear and visible announcement. Which the didn't do, because they never followed policy 2. Banning people who didn't know they shouldn't use the card isn't policy 2, it's a stupid mishmash. But that's not what they're doing, even if it seems to be what some people want. So if that mishmash is what you're saying "isn't viable" then that's fine but it's nothing to do with anything I've said.


First, why are you banning the "intended" usage of the card?

Sorry, that's what I meant anyway, ban the misuse of the card, not the intended use. But I didn't want to use an emotive term like "misuse" or "abuse" as it would suggest that the card is being "abused" under policy 1, and the point I was trying to make was that it isn't, it's just being used in a way different to the original intent. In many cases though you do need to ban the card entirely. The fact that you don't in this case is what makes policy 2 viable as I said before. The fact that the card as implemented is not disruptive, as you so verbosely explain, is what makes 1 also viable, which is what I said in the first place.

Quarison
05-19-2014, 02:22 AM
I was not trying to discuss with you, or wanted to offend you with anything. Most of players are thinking the same way. I know you defended me.

Option 2 is irrelevant. There are some other things is/was in this game that did not work as it's written. Ur-juball's call is one of them. Banning the people that uses that card because of it is not an issue. Why? Because it's not changing the phase of the game. When you look at crag hack bug, that was the real bug. If we compare the crag bug with Ur-Juball's call, it's comparing infinity with € (0,00....01].

You can of course ban the card. Maybe they should have done it, or maybe not. But banning every player that ever used it with unintended way, well we have an expression in our culture. Burning quilts for fleas. Hope this should cover my point of view.

This is like judging a person who stick 1 mm of a needle to another man as wounding with a knife. Yes there is blood in both cases.

Irgy_
05-19-2014, 06:25 AM
I was not trying to discuss with you, or wanted to offend you with anything. Most of players are thinking the same way. I know you defended me.

Option 2 is irrelevant. There are some other things is/was in this game that did not work as it's written. Ur-juball's call is one of them. Banning the people that uses that card because of it is not an issue. Why? Because it's not changing the phase of the game. When you look at crag hack bug, that was the real bug. If we compare the crag bug with Ur-Juball's call, it's comparing infinity with € (0,00....01].

You can of course ban the card. Maybe they should have done it, or maybe not. But banning every player that ever used it with unintended way, well we have an expression in our culture. Burning quilts for fleas. Hope this should cover my point of view.

This is like judging a person who stick 1 mm of a needle to another man as wounding with a knife. Yes there is blood in both cases.

You still misunderstand my option 2. It goes like this:
a) Announce, in a way no-one can excusably miss, that a card is bugged, and that people who use it after the announcement will be banned.
b) Follow through on that threat.

This is not the same as what you think I'm saying:
a) Say nothing
b) Retrospectively ban people who may or may not have known they were doing anything wrong.

LQDBrunt
05-19-2014, 12:19 PM
In the meantime people still keep abusing this bug.
If you have limited amount of games you can play in a day, and you lose CP to abusing idiots, you slowly begin to wonder where else to spend your time.
I cannot believe that it takes this long to fix it ?!?!
This is a latest one: http://tools.mmdocking.com/replays/show/5592

bambikitkat
05-19-2014, 12:24 PM
its allowed, so if you dont like it, then no one is forcing you to stay, you may take your leave.

(its a resume of ubisoft way of thinking)

Quarison
05-19-2014, 04:53 PM
You still misunderstand my option 2. It goes like this:
a) Announce, in a way no-one can excusably miss, that a card is bugged, and that people who use it after the announcement will be banned.
b) Follow through on that threat.

This is not the same as what you think I'm saying:
a) Say nothing
b) Retrospectively ban people who may or may not have known they were doing anything wrong.


Sorry for misunderstanding but there wasn't any words about making announcement first, then ban whoever uses is after that announcement.

I thought option 2 is like these "open letter crusaders".

Kataklysm6661
05-23-2014, 10:08 PM
Hi everyone,

An important follow-up on this announced fix:

"Due to circumstances completely out of our control, it has been impossible to implement the fixes on the Ur-Jubaal’s Call card (and others) earlier this week: the patch is still pending approval from one of our partners, even though we submitted everything in time.

The first Gold Cup of the Road to Paris will take place nonetheless, in the current state of the game. We call our Gold finalists to show fairplay and honor in this exceptional situation.

Thanks for your understanding,

- MMDOC

bambikitkat
05-24-2014, 03:58 AM
either you make a rule banning that card, either you dont say anything, but dont ask people to show "honor" when they are trying to get to a final with 15.000 euros as a prize.

malkorion
05-24-2014, 09:55 AM
We call our Gold finalists to show fairplay and honor in this exceptional situation.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeah, we'll see how that works out for you.

malkorion
05-25-2014, 05:20 PM
Hi everyone,

An important follow-up on this announced fix:

"Due to circumstances completely out of our control, it has been impossible to implement the fixes on the Ur-Jubaal’s Call card (and others) earlier this week: the patch is still pending approval from one of our partners, even though we submitted everything in time.

The first Gold Cup of the Road to Paris will take place nonetheless, in the current state of the game. We call our Gold finalists to show fairplay and honor in this exceptional situation.

Thanks for your understanding,

- MMDOC

People cheat using this card in regular Jackpot tournaments. Do you really expect that they will play fair in the official tournament? All of this seems too rushed to me, and if I were you, I'd just delay the tournament, for your sake.

I honestly don't care, since I won't be playing, but this is a big mistake.