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L4m4B4l0n1k
05-12-2014, 06:30 PM
Dear JasonParadise, Developers and Players,
I would like to talk about fair competition, which Road to Paris 2014 should be. However before I do so, let me properly introduce myself - I'm L4m4B4l0n1k, known mostly as deckbuilder, streamer and blogger and what is the most important part of all of those - participant of Golden Cup in Road to Paris 2014. We should ask ourselves, if players taking unfair advantages of bugged cards should be able to compete in such event like World Championship. As we all know Ur-Jubaal's Call is bugged, it can be used against the way it was designed, many players abused that fact in previous month in order to qualify to Silver/Gold Cup taking those limited slots, which they didn't deserved unlike few fair players who haven't qualifed because of that. I believe there is still time to make Road to Paris 2014 fair competition and disqualify players who taken unfair advantages during Cup qualification period and replace them by next in standings. However I would like to notice: I will not take part in Road to Paris 2014 if nothing will be done in this case and any other Road to Somewhere in future, I guess few other players may do the same.

best regards
L4m4B4l0n1k

Durajczyk
05-12-2014, 06:36 PM
+1
No mercy for abusers :o

Nillicomes
05-12-2014, 08:08 PM
I agree with l4m4 in this case!

There should be no mercy for people abusing cards even though it is not their fault they are bugged.
People abusing bugs know that they are doing it - so imo there can't be any good reason or argument to do so. I don't even know how people can feel comfortable while continuing abusing bugs.

Playing unfair should result in disqualification right away that's for sure. Just like in any other sport.
We want justice!!!

Signed with own blood
Nillicomes

bambikitkat
05-12-2014, 08:19 PM
i disagree, they are playing the games the way it allow them to do, without using another program to cheat it.

if you want to complain, complain about ubisoft taking months to deal with little bug like those, or to ban the card that bug.

btw dont even know what is the bug you are talking about and dont want to know it , either will spread like flu

Dr_mundo_
05-12-2014, 08:30 PM
they removed immediatly the bug with the u/c hon cards..i bet 98% used that bug...this bug will take a patch maybe..to be fixed..like always..all the game is bugged..r2p system is bugged as well

malkorion
05-12-2014, 10:02 PM
i disagree, they are playing the games the way it allow them to do, without using another program to cheat it.

if you want to complain, complain about ubisoft taking months to deal with little bug like those, or to ban the card that bug.

btw dont even know what is the bug you are talking about and dont want to know it , either will spread like flu

Are you saying that people abusing bugs to gain the upped hand is ok?

xRoni
05-12-2014, 10:42 PM
Agree with L4m4 and Nillicomes. Players abusing bugs should be banned from R2P. No mercy for abusers!

LQDBrunt
05-12-2014, 11:00 PM
I would go further than that and propose that we cancel the whole r2Paris tournament.

Not because of bugs or exploits, but rather to focus on things that are much more important to this game than r2P.
Since resources dev team has are apparently very limited (maybe not their fault), I would think that balancing, bug fixing, marketing and overall accessibility of the game should come first.
Once you have healthy number of players, than you spend what extra energy you have on organizing tournaments such as this one.
If you want DoC as E-sport, this is a wrong way to do it.
If you want r2P to attract new players, then you got the whole thing backwards.

If things don't change, Eiffel tower could become the place where last game of DoC is played. Hopefully Nillicomes wins.

Enclase
05-12-2014, 11:02 PM
Seriously...What did you expect? That it will ever change? Since I can remember a minimum of one card or combo was obviously broken and exploitable. The only thing they ever fixed fast was Crag'Hack...and 'fast' was still a few days, where serious games would introduce an emergency maintenance a maximum of 1 hour after it was revealed ;-)

The `MMDoC-Team just don't care, and they never will.

But I'm sure in ~August it will be fixed (and replaced with the next big bug), so don't worry.

jkk89
05-13-2014, 12:09 AM
I would also want some formal explanation on what happened at bronze tournament and if they will change this ****ty system before silver and gold or if they are planning to do nothing and let buggy algorithm to pick winners. + This whole single-elimination bo1 tournament system is like the worst idea for the tournament, cause is just random and nothing more. Just take me to Paris cause I am "probably the best ladder player bla bla bla" (according to Owl, the famous commentator of Your game) and I will be quiet.

npavcec
05-13-2014, 12:23 AM
I would go further than that and propose that we cancel the whole r2Paris tournament.
Not because of bugs or exploits, but rather to focus on things that are much more important to this game than r2P.
Since resources dev team has are apparently very limited (maybe not their fault), I would think that balancing, bug fixing, marketing and overall accessibility of the game should come first.
Once you have healthy number of players, than you spend what extra energy you have on organizing tournaments such as this one.
If you want DoC as E-sport, this is a wrong way to do it.
If you want r2P to attract new players, then you got the whole thing backwards.

I 100% agree. The game as a whole is not healthy enough for a major world-wide event such as "world championship". Don't get me wrong, MMDoC now is a perfect for the single player massive multiplayer experience, the battleground mechanics and a sheer number of content (cards) and the depth is huge - IMHO, the best in the world - but the game interface and modules are just not good enough to support uniform and serious competition through all time zones and countries (why are the countries in R2P anayways - its not like we play national qualifications, etc.).
I was always wondering, why are these tournaments of ANY calibre hosted on a 3rd party ground - be it forum, specialized sites for brackets and after all - R2P web site. Why are they giving us a whole other interface to meddle with rather to do things the proper way - incorporate the quality tournamament modules in the game client from which all the information, data inputs/outputs for all the players would be handled. Everything should be automated, browsable and transparent.

I know, these things take a lot of programmer hours to make and are definitely not simple nor cheap, but, it is not the end of the world if we all admit that MMDoC (as it is today) is still kind of in the "beta" phase if we ever really consider it as a viable and competitive e-sport. Heck, the current in-game ranking system is (IMHO) a mess - so much stuff is hidden, non-transparent and not just for everybody - the competition is spread all over two different formats, there are obvious and unattended card bugs, etc. Until things are stabilized in the game itself, and the true well designed and just competition is nourished for at least 6 months (without specific card pool changes and a chance for as non-paying players to get their playing material), then we can talk about some kind of "world championship" with the full integrity. The way it is "forced" now - it is sloppy and it is just plain not serious enough (for me).

Trust me, I know what I am talking about - 14 years ago I was manager of a nation wide e-sport competition (Quake and Quake2) and I have extensive experience with integrity ranking system designs. After 3 years I've passed the "flag" (and all the designs, sheets and rules) and the competion was held for additional 6-7 years without changes. So, in one aspect I can understand how someone believes that good competition can carry game for a long time (maybe thats why they are forcing it).. but, the rules need to be well writen and practiced for some time in order to root in and the game needs to be "finished product" in that regard, if you know what I mean.

A list of concepts that MMDoC needs to put in order and/or incorporate:
- one format = one competition = one ranking ladder
- daily quest matches somehow excluded from the ranking duels
- swiss tournamnet ills fixed (quiters affecting other peoples points)
- more and better monthly Tiers - better spread reward from 1st to the last (motivates true competiiton).
- teams aka guilds aka alliances - HUGE topic
- graphs - give us graphs - for everything
- more data - more numbers to anylize - people absolutely love to read numbers which describe "how they perform"

And here are the in-game modules MMDoC absolutely needs in order for me to start considering as a viable e-spots candidate:
- replay module - all replays on one place - and I mean ALL - accessible and transparent - every game ever played - with play, ff at least 4 speeds, stop, pause.
- tournament module - a place where all the tournaments with brackets could take place - be it custom player made or official, world-wide ones (as R2P).

OK, this has gone really wide - sorry. :) IMHO, everyhing, ofcourse. But feel free to comment.

Infernal_Wisdom
05-13-2014, 01:09 AM
We all wish "no bugs" yes!

but days passed and noone is fixing it

and there is a bug, there it is! and ubisoft is a small company, devs can't be blamed bla bla... its ok too!!!

so as a player now, I accept ur-jabaal's call as it is not a bugged card, it works like as it is and it will be nerfed in next patch to me

it is not a game winning bug like crag hack bug as we all know, it is just as it is, like austerity bug

and people were using it, they used it against me so much, and I *now* am using this bug too

why?

I am a survivor, its nothing about honour

there is a gun there, some people are shooting but honoured people refuse to use it and they die with honour, haha :) f**k this!!!!

I am a good player, and I have honour, I never doubted myself in this 2 things, and I will keep using ur-jabaal's bug in server as long as ubisoft fixes it

why?

because people used it against me, even in the first elo reset day, I lost 2 games because of this and I played 3 hours to be champion 3 instead of 2 hours

I will stop using it when ubisoft extends my lifespan 1 hour and thats it

I've been playing this game since 1,5 years and everybug was always there and ubi fixed them so late always as enclase said, I don't expect any difference in here

you guys better accept it, fight fire with fire... be evil against evil, thats it

ps: when there is a certain tournament, where you know noone will abuse this bug, where every player is good, well than be a honoured one and don't use it ofc, but except tournaments noone can tell me to not use it, because it would be just unfair and injust!

malkorion
05-13-2014, 09:37 AM
Now that I've heard the argument about the translation error, I'm not sure if the card is bugged at all. It was just mis-translated. So we got a card that is enabled on discarding a card by anybody.

M0rw47h
05-13-2014, 09:45 AM
Now that I've heard the argument about the translation error, I'm not sure if the card is bugged at all. It was just mis-translated. So we got a card that is enabled on discarding a card by anybody.

Card isn't mistranslated, card is bugged with was stated by Kimmundi and SimonV.

malkorion
05-13-2014, 11:13 AM
Card isn't mistranslated, card is bugged with was stated by Kimmundi and SimonV.

Good.

GustavXIII
05-13-2014, 12:48 PM
The problem i see is that the people respective people who have to take care of this "problem" wouldnt like to take drastic measures like banning people from the qualifiers. And there is also a possibility that they simply dont like to do it due to some sort of uncertainty, as already mentioned, translation errors, players not knowing the card is bugged (granted, this is very unlikely!) but i can still kinda understand them.

Regarding bugged cards: Just because you have the possibility to use the card (obviously not as intended) that just doesnt justify you to do so. You can still use (Ur-Jubaals Call) as intended and be fine with it. Maybe one special type of deck loses its edge when you dont play it the "illegal" way, but there are still a lot of other standard decks out there which can help you to compete in the R2P qualifiers easily. So arguments like "i have to play it like this to compete" are invalid or simply a convenient excuse. You cant simply ignore your responsibility towards fair play and blame someone else for the mistake, every player is making his own decision at the end how he uses cards. If you really think you have to do it, then do it but for the love of god, dont make up some pseudo intellectual BS to justify it. Just admit it.....

My suggestion: Dear devs, this is supposed to be your main event, if you cant fix the card for whatever reason, change the official rules, create a forum thread or even allow the bug, but whatever you do, be quick about it. Every day of delay makes you look indecisive or too incompetent to react, sorry if this sounds harsh.

Aside from that, the points LQDBrunt brought up are all valid, maybe its just my impression, hopefully a wrong one, but i have the feeling that this games downfall will be due to mistakes at basic things and also the lack of flexibility when it comes to bug fixing etc.

Anyway, gl in the competition everyone.

Quarison
05-13-2014, 02:13 PM
First of all I was one of the user of the Ur-Juball's Call aside the description of card, and i have inner peace. Why? Let me tell you with examples. Reader attention required. If you read carefully and examine thoroughly.

When i read the card's description, something was off. You can use it when you discard a card too. So, what's the logical solution? Check for if the card is bugged or not. So, where will you go to check for it? Forums of course, Why? Because it's the main communication tool for this game, because there are not important announcements being made from the game client itself. And when in streams if there's an announcement to make, a thread will also be opened in the forums, but not all threads are told in the streams. So I hope you understand the main communication tool is the Forum - here. Then i came to check if there's any announcements, but there was none. Only player comments, which i don't have any obligation to follow, as neither any of you from my comments. So, i asked to the people in my friend list, and 2-3 of them told me that, Jason stated that it's a translation error. Which can be very well the issue, as it's bugged. So i opened a thread too and checked others all the time But no response from any of the official source till yesterday.

Belias removed from standard, Dhamiria the only hero can discard with the ability which cost 6 cost, other options are risky with fortunes. So you dont have that much discard. And the decks you do with discard creatures or fortunes does not have room for 3 destiny stat. So, it seemed logical that using an event with 3 cost and using another 3 for Ur-Juball, total 6 cost to deal 3 damage to hero. Some of you will disagree, especially the ones that blindly defends the idea of abuse. But I'm asking this, if there's a card at inferno faction, requires 3 destiny to play, 6 cost, and deals 3 damage to opponent hero and draw a card with discarding 1 of your cards by your choice. No one will take that card to their decks. Because it's a burden card like Ur-Juball's call, only a finisher.

So the there were two ideas from two separate messages. 1 says bug, other says translation error. 2nd made more sense to me. Because too expensive but more easier way to deal damage. After some ways of discard removed from the game, this may be a translation error otherwise that card will be a garbage i thought, which i still am - about being garbage-.

Now let me give 2 examples, 1 of it is really popular and any football match viewer must already seen it, other is much more oldy, around 1980s, and if you make a quick research you will learn about it too.

About football game, when the timer at 89mins or extra time, the winner team will take the ball to their corner and tries to let the time pass. From the perspective of the winner team and their supporters, it's professionalism. From the perspective of the loser team and their supporters, it's not fair play. There are not any rules that prevents that kind of act, so it's OK for any football team to do it, and they do it. Using anything that can give them an edge, with RESPECT TO THE RULES.. If a rule comes today that prevents from any football player to prevent that kind of act, you can not punish them for the act they did before the rule.

Now the second example. At around 1980, a new type of doping has discovered and prohibited from olympic games. Which is called as Blood Doping. Which is for summary, taking a competitors blood before the game and enrich it with O2. And give it back to the competitor before the game. Which gave them en edge. Actually 1 player that win 5 medas with the help of this in history. You can search freely. And when the authorities discovered this, they immediately put a rule that prohibits the blood doping and the most important part is they did not give any punishment to the Users. This example is the edge of this type of abuses. Which give a HUGE amount of power. They could not charged any competitors with it, because it's technically not a doping. They're taking your blood, and giving your blood again without any chemical compound. But it gives you an edge right. But as the same issue i told, you can not make a rule or announcement today and punish the people that acted against that announcement or rule yesterday.

A person with a little objectivity should have seen this. I can give lots of examples. I'm thinking with logic. Actually may be lots of you dont know the way how logic works. Logic is kind of experience. If you think something is logical, that means someone or something used that and that worked so you see it has a chance to work so it's logical. So you're not thinking with your logic, I recommend you to do so.

And actually telling authorities to make a choice between you and us makes me believe that you're still believing Santa Clause. Hope you see him one day!!


I strongly agree with LQDbrunt's statements. The system were not ready. Lots of fails at Bronze Section of the Road2Paris. I hope this will not contuine.


P.S: I'm more than willing to discuss this case, you can come up with ANY EXAMPLE you can, but when you search the history of the world, you will only came across to mine. Thanks for reading. And I hope you all start to think with logic, not emotions.

jkk89
05-13-2014, 02:24 PM
To summarize all this: Lex retro non agit. And You are right they can not do anything about some of You abusing the bug as it was entirely they fault to be sloppy and not do an official statement before all of this happen.

Quarison
05-13-2014, 02:36 PM
To summarize all this: Lex retro non agit. And You are right they can not do anything about some of You abusing the bug as it was entirely they fault to be sloppy and not do an official statement before all of this happen.

I did whatever i can, i opened a thread and watched all the threads about the same issue. I had two completely different information.

If the Ubi is not caring about making announcement about any shady action might occur, i cant be the responsible. Is it ethical? No it's not. It's legal? Yeah it's legal. And the thing i hate most is everyone that will comment here will pretend like they're the most ethical person in the world. I'm man enough to accept it. "You" should too.

P.S: "You" is meant for the person will or did post any message about ethic. Not to you jkkk

Infernal_Wisdom
05-13-2014, 04:25 PM
The problem i see is that the people respective people who have to take care of this "problem" wouldnt like to take drastic measures like banning people from the qualifiers. And there is also a possibility that they simply dont like to do it due to some sort of uncertainty, as already mentioned, translation errors, players not knowing the card is bugged (granted, this is very unlikely!) but i can still kinda understand them.

Regarding bugged cards: Just because you have the possibility to use the card (obviously not as intended) that just doesnt justify you to do so. You can still use (Ur-Jubaals Call) as intended and be fine with it. Maybe one special type of deck loses its edge when you dont play it the "illegal" way, but there are still a lot of other standard decks out there which can help you to compete in the R2P qualifiers easily. So arguments like "i have to play it like this to compete" are invalid or simply a convenient excuse. You cant simply ignore your responsibility towards fair play and blame someone else for the mistake, every player is making his own decision at the end how he uses cards. If you really think you have to do it, then do it but for the love of god, dont make up some pseudo intellectual BS to justify it. Just admit it.....

My suggestion: Dear devs, this is supposed to be your main event, if you cant fix the card for whatever reason, change the official rules, create a forum thread or even allow the bug, but whatever you do, be quick about it. Every day of delay makes you look indecisive or too incompetent to react, sorry if this sounds harsh.

Aside from that, the points LQDBrunt brought up are all valid, maybe its just my impression, hopefully a wrong one, but i have the feeling that this games downfall will be due to mistakes at basic things and also the lack of flexibility when it comes to bug fixing etc.

Anyway, gl in the competition everyone.

Gustav you know I like you as a person and friend so much bro right? :) please don't get angry for what I will say

Everyone has "their own lines" right?

Do you think I am a man without honour? Do you think I don't deserve to be in the r2p finals?

I am saying to you but everyone can do this: "Challange me and I can show you how player I am" - this is it

yes some people were abusing this bug so hard, some of them were bad players, some of them does not deserve to be in gold etc...
but for instance I think I am a good player and I think using this bug is only way to bring justice, unless ubisoft makes an official statement like "we will ban every player from this day"
I don't play only dhamiria I can show screenshots of my replaymanager without any cut bro you know me....

so back to the topic: "everyone has their own lines"

I am always glad for helping you and anyone in my friendlist if they need my help

I did give countless free wins to people "I know their goodness" they can back me up or not I dont care

but I want you ask this gustav

why did you asked from me, nevermind me, any friend of yours this:

"I have a daily quest win against friend 2 times"

Do you really earn and fight for this games? Do you think what you done is right?

I don't judge you or nobody else, but you have to think, as you see everyone has their own ethical understandings

and mine is this

there are good people in server and when I see a good person I add them to mi friendlist

and there are abuser computer bots, which I dont care so I can use urjabaals call and I dont care and I dont regret it! I can fight evil with evil ways, killing a killer is not a crime in my blackbook etc...

so this is my line

and noone has the right to judge it, noone here is angel, we are all humans, everyone has to respect each other

and I want to say again, we can think different gustav, but I like you very much as a person, my sweet gustarello :) or gustarino :)

Durajczyk
05-13-2014, 04:44 PM
Ask Devs for your own tournament Road to Abuse 2014.
Your arguments are.. pitiful.
Shame on you!

hectoring
05-13-2014, 04:53 PM
Ask Devs for your own tournament Road to Abuse 2014.
Your arguments are.. pitiful.
Shame on you!

^^ +1

zenithale
05-13-2014, 05:07 PM
(About possible translation issues, just know cards are first written in... English, and thus if they are translation issues, this cannot be in English version.)

Quarison
05-13-2014, 05:07 PM
Ask Devs for your own tournament Road to Abuse 2014.
Your arguments are.. pitiful.
Shame on you!

If my arguments are ... pitiful, then show me an argument or data that is not pitiful and similar.

Lets look what MnM_vs_Smarties upload. There are some games in play that i won because of that card? Sure i have. How many? and what's the percentage is the issue here.

http://tools.mmdocking.com/replays/show/5347

Give some time yourself to watch the replay. And if you think i win because of the Bug, then you're not that experienced player as you think, like MnM.

As i mentioned in my first message, I'm open to discussion. You can give me any example you can, if you find.

Oh you can find that in 4th world countries, mb 5th.

Same goes for you Hectoring too.

Quarison
05-13-2014, 05:08 PM
(About possible translation issues, just know cards are first written in... English, and thus if they are translation issues, this cannot be in English version.)

as far as i know, the cards are first written in French, as we saw the Alternate art of Cassandra only in French. That was like 6-7 months ago. Dont know if English version is now exists.

Infernal_Wisdom
05-13-2014, 05:11 PM
Ask Devs for your own tournament Road to Abuse 2014.
Your arguments are.. pitiful.
Shame on you!

as I said everyone has their own lines and noone can judge it, otherwise we can't reach solution right?

also don't say what to do to me please, I don't know you sir and keep your thoughts for yourself and keep your respect!

my first preference is "remove the bug"

my second preference is "ban every bug abusing user without any exception from now on"

my third preference is "let everyone play with bugs if you don't fix them"

so I can't see where is the shame on that, I really can't

but I see some shame on your signature, it is literally "naming and shaming", but it is off-topic right? :)

anyways I think discussing this is pointless from now on, you can think whatever you want as long as you are respectful

hectoring
05-13-2014, 05:25 PM
If you didn't need to use the bug to win, but you did it anyway, you were knowingly doing something unethical for no purpose?

If you needed the bug to win, then you were breaking the game rules for your own advantage. (Game rules = what is written on the card.) Even if you were not 100% sure where the error was, a decent person would have waited to get confirmation before using it - always better to err on the side of caution. I'm sure you have other decks you could have used, whether there is no chance that there would be misuse of a card.

With your sort of morality, you could justify doing any sort of unethical actions as long as it wasn't "technically illegal" or if you didn't get caught. Pretty sociopathic, you should get that looked at.

(Btw, in football, if you try to run out the clock when you're ahead, you get carded.)

zenithale
05-13-2014, 05:26 PM
(

as far as i know, the cards are first written in French, as we saw the Alternate art of Cassandra only in French. That was like 6-7 months ago. Dont know if English version is now exists.
Not at all, they are written in English (and there are still some translation issues in French).
The alternate art of Cassandra is maybe an exception because was first released as Unique card in the world, at a French competition (that Karstou33 won).
)

Quarison
05-13-2014, 05:42 PM
(

Not at all, they are written in English (and there are still some translation issues in French).
The alternate art of Cassandra is maybe an exception because was first released as Unique card in the world, at a French competition (that Karstou33 won).
)

The strange thing is, Even if it's the true fact, it does not change the issue. I did not know anything about this, neither anyone cared to reply to my forum thread about it too, where i said i heard it about translation error, in order to be sure i'm writing here kinda.

We're here just playing a game and this is not %90 of our lives. But for an olympic athlete, it's his/her whole life. After blood doping incident, do you really think that they did not tried to do something about it? And do you really think that the committee that decided about the athletes that used this is stupid? I mean really? :)

In the terms of law, if you have a similar case, it's too rare for you to fight against it. Of course you can choose to fight, no one can prohibit you from this. And may be ubi will decide to DQ us.

But at least i'm hoping to discuss the issue and my defence will be accounted of.


P.S : You can always choose to discuss ethic vs law. But it will not come to an end. You can see lots of philosophers' thought about the issue.

Durajczyk
05-13-2014, 05:54 PM
https://road2paris.com/season3 --> RULES TOURNAMENT

IX. Clarification about game bugs and crash and player attitude

Due to the online competition and the number of players participating, the game crashing can’t be handled as a reason to replay a match. A game crash would be considered as a loss for the actual round.
Any process of cheat is forbidden. Player with bad attitude (online chat, etc) will be banned for the rest of the competition.

Quarison
05-13-2014, 05:58 PM
If you didn't need to use the bug to win, but you did it anyway, you were knowingly doing something unethical for no purpose?

If you needed the bug to win, then you were breaking the game rules for your own advantage. (Game rules = what is written on the card.) Even if you were not 100% sure where the error was, a decent person would have waited to get confirmation before using it - always better to err on the side of caution. I'm sure you have other decks you could have used, whether there is no chance that there would be misuse of a card.

With your sort of morality, you could justify doing any sort of unethical actions as long as it wasn't "technically illegal" or if you didn't get caught. Pretty sociopathic, you should get that looked at.

(Btw, in football, if you try to run out the clock when you're ahead, you get carded.)

The thing that you are not getting is, i did not know it's a bug. I know something is off, i had 2 different information. One is the Translation error, which already turned into wrong news, other is a bug.

I did what i needed to do, i looked at forums, no official explanation. I opened another thread with some another bugs and conflicts in the game.

From yesterday that Kimmundi confirmed, i have not played that card with wrong way. I played the same deck again, so i don't have any problems with it. And i won and lost some games like i did back in the time. There must be games that bug surely granted me some games. But i dont really now the percentage, and i dont really think it's over %5.

As i said again, Everyone in every part of the life, you always bend the rules as much as you can. I already stated that i'm man enough to accept it, everyone who speaks here as a maiden of ethic should do the same too.

And please hectoring about football

Legal methods of timewasting.
A common legal tactic often employed during football games involves carrying the ball into the corner of the field and shielding it from the defender. This will commonly lead to a free-kick if the frustrated defender budges the player out of the way, or it can also lead to a throw-in by the defender placing a tackle and managing to legally make contact with the ball so close to the line it often rolls out of play. This can be repeated to continue timewasting.

npavcec
05-13-2014, 06:36 PM
Guys, talking about ethic in a video game? Give me a break. Even in sports it is called "fair play", which we all know most of the top athletes don't give a s... about.. they are there to win (and not to get ejected in the process). Now, lets talk about floping in pro football or soccer.. :D

Milky97
05-13-2014, 06:45 PM
I actually have to agree with quarison on totally blaming ubi for this instead of the player. If there is no official statement, the player can't know what's right or wrong and thus can not be blamed. However Quarison you should be careful offending experienced players such as MnM_VS_Smarties or hectoring as it will make you sound ridiculous and thus takes away focus from your correct argumentation.

jkk89
05-13-2014, 06:53 PM
My approach on this matter is same as Milky's. Tho I not defent the players who abuse, I kinda dislike public naming and shaming too.

Quarison
05-13-2014, 06:57 PM
I actually have to agree with quarison on totally blaming ubi for this instead of the player. If there is no official statement, the player can't know what's right or wrong and thus can not be blamed. However Quarison you should be careful offending experienced players such as MnM_VS_Smarties or hectoring as it will make you sound ridiculous and thus takes away focus from your correct argumentation.

First thanks for your support.

Their messages are insult to a player's character, which no one has any right to make a comment about. But a player's skill, everybody has right to criticize. MnM_vs_Smarties, posted a replay which i had already won without the buggy card, but he is not experienced enough for seeing it. He has three choices, he may try to look for the thing that he missed and he will fill that experience gap, or he can try to prove me that he's experienced, or he dont give a s.... That's his choices. I said to hectoring about this too, in case he watches the replay and agrees with MnM_vs_Smarties, and every another player who stands there. I agree that it's off topic, but i'm glad that i pointed out because it's kinda related. I have waited at least a game that bug should have changed the outcome. Which i would accept if someone puts any. I'm not in the denial mode. I'm trying to inform as many person as i can.

I'm being myself so i can write lots of things about it. But lots of writers here are trying to pretend to someone that they're not, so the only thing that they can write is "shameful","abuser","unskilled" etc.

Nillicomes
05-13-2014, 07:04 PM
I wonder how abusers would abuse the bug if it was real cards? I guess it would be called cheating if they would do something which the card cannot do?

M0rw47h
05-13-2014, 07:08 PM
I wonder how abusers would abuse the bug if it was real cards? I guess it would be called cheating if they would do something which the card cannot do?

In MTG its cleary cheating and there can be only one result of it: DQ, often followed by ban.

Milky97
05-13-2014, 07:11 PM
This however doesnt count here: We often have also just wording mistakes so how can one know if he is cheating or it is just another wording mistake?

M0rw47h
05-13-2014, 07:13 PM
This however doesnt count here: We often have also just wording mistakes so how can one know if he is cheating or it is just another wording mistake?

How many wording mistakes have you experienced with english version?

Quarison
05-13-2014, 07:17 PM
I wonder how abusers would abuse the bug if it was real cards? I guess it would be called cheating if they would do something which the card cannot do?

Yeah how can you make 30 decks with 4 copy of each card if we played with real cards? Taking positive sides from sth is not true always. Also i always said that this system should not come to the game. But here it is. Playing over a computer makes some parts easy, but some parts not. What is the point here?

Edit: Example was irrelevant.

Quarison
05-13-2014, 07:30 PM
How many wording mistakes have you experienced with english version?

That was in my post too, if you could care to look ofc.

Dark ward prevents only effects of DARK SPELLS, but a ARCH LICH can not attack to a SHI-NO-SHI.

As same goes with the enchanting the DJINN CATALYST with PRIMAL spells will reduce the cost of PRIME creatures with 1 for each enchant spell with the primal school on it.

Ward Against Darkness again same issue, but Mansoon Does NOT Reduce the damage of FIRE BURST.

Do you need more?


Than in your logic, deploying SHI-NO-SHI against a Dark Creature user person is a bug abuse too, or using a fire burst when there is a mansoon is up? What's the mechanics of these spells and creatures, or the effects of the creature types in this game?

If creature abilities and attacks are considered as spells, why fire burst or Hellfire Maniac's ability hit's Blackskull Crusher, if not, why we can not attack to SHI-NO-SHI?

You can be best player in this game, gratz. You can will every tournament held, gratz. But i dont think you're thinking about the mechanics of this game as i do. When you try to understand this, you will understand why i used Ur-Juball's Call.

M0rw47h
05-13-2014, 07:41 PM
That was in my post too, if you could care to look ofc.

Dark ward prevents only effects of DARK SPELLS, but a ARCH LICH can not attack to a SHI-NO-SHI.

It's because combat dmg dealt by magic creatures counts as spell dmg of certain spell school. In this case, Arch Lich is Dark magic creature... as far as I know, working as intended.


As same goes with the enchanting the DJINN CATALYST with PRIMAL spells will reduce the cost of PRIME creatures with 1 for each enchant spell with the primal school on it.

This is well know and reported bug...



Ward Against Darkness again same issue, but Mansoon Does NOT Reduce the damage of FIRE BURST.


It's not combat dmg, thats the reason I guess... for same reason Monsoon wont affect Hellfire Maniac ability?

-----

Each of those is different than Ur-Jubal's Call, where it's CLEARY stated on the card, that OPPONENT has to discard a card.

Quarison
05-13-2014, 07:56 PM
http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/s01/large/s01_Spe_Lig_031.jpg

You can read this right?

And you can read this?

http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/s04/large/s04_Bui_Str_060.jpg


and a ARCH LICH attacks to a creature in War Tent and if he kills, because of it deals spell damage, tent will not be destroyed right?


Just come on...


EDIT: And a Arch Lich should not attack to a BLACKSKULL CRUSHER? In case Archlich Deals some SPELL damage and CRUSHER is immune to enemy SPELLS!



It's related. Both, because they're all working against what's written. You can not attack to Shi-no-shi, which has dark SPELL ward with a dark type creature. You can use Ur-juball with ANY player discard. So it could perfectly be the case, and made sense actually, after seeing this...

Kataklysm6661
05-13-2014, 08:04 PM
Hey everyone, just to let you know that the Ur-Jubaal's Call problem is being studied and a decision will be taken and announced soon.
Thanks!

M0rw47h
05-13-2014, 08:08 PM
@Quarison It's not related, cards you have mentioned are old cards, which wording wasn't updated after proper changes to their new effect, which in fact hasn't changed, just game rules has: e.g. Ward Against <magicschool> affects combat damage.

While Ur-Juball's Call is new card, which wasnt changed in any way after release.

All I see is abuser looking for excuses and after getting catched red-handed, hes just yelling 'its not mine hand!'...

@Kataklysm6661, thank you for information.

Quarison
05-13-2014, 08:26 PM
@Quarison It's not related, cards you have mentioned are old cards, which wording wasn't updated after proper changes to their new effect, which in fact hasn't changed, just game rules has: e.g. Ward Against <magicschool> affects combat damage.

While Ur-Juball's Call is new card, which wasnt changed in any way after release.

All I see is abuser looking for excuses and after getting catched red-handed, hes just yelling 'its not mine hand!'...

@Kataklysm6661, thank you for information.


Just really?

When the creatures get the SPELL TYPE ABILITY?

When the for instance, a maniac is called as DEMON? When a arch lich was a LICH-DARK?

Really? You dont follow what's happening with the last patch and you're here to discuss with me? It's pretty normal why you react everything like "bug" at the first site. I did not. sometimes knowing and thinking about mechanics doesnt help, as we see.

Ignorance is a bless...

Edit: No offense meant.


Edit 2: I'm cought? Really? I said that i used, and checked and did everything a player should do, opened a thread, look for similar threads, since no official announcements here, i continued, as some other bugs still. And only think you can say, abuser etc. etc. Keep going. If words mean something, let them mean!!

Infernal_Wisdom
05-13-2014, 08:43 PM
It's because combat dmg dealt by magic creatures counts as spell dmg of certain spell school. In this case, Arch Lich is Dark magic creature... as far as I know, working as intended.



This is well know and reported bug...



It's not combat dmg, thats the reason I guess... for same reason Monsoon wont affect Hellfire Maniac ability?

-----

Each of those is different than Ur-Jubal's Call, where it's CLEARY stated on the card, that OPPONENT has to discard a card.

the root of all problems are the same as I see

COMMUNICATION

that is it!

what I mean about communication is this:

about Ur-Jabaal's Call

UBISOFT had to inform their CM's and they needed to do this

open a sticky tread in forum which clearly says:
"****** is a bug, we will fix this bug until ****** date and who will use this bug after now will get punished by account ban"

and about ward against darkness and other changelogs

we are missing this, CM's need to know more ingame mechanics or they need to get informed more by devs but as consequence they need to inform players clearly

lamabalonik you are saying shinoshi can't be attacked by archlich because of he is magical, it is wrong

the spell is ward against darkness, it means it has to give protection against all kind of darkness, darkness based creatures, spells and abilities, in this case ward against darkness spell needs to be rewritten

it is just like bscrusher has enemy spellward, it is immune against every spell of your enemy, you can't even click on them

or it is just like massrage in kieran campaign, enemy ward, you can't even try dispell etc...

secondly, djinn catalyst says spells cost 1 less right? but now some of creatures are belong to some spell schools!!!! there are primal creatures or fire creatures etc... I think it is not a bug but a logical thing, it must not have to be bug, the djinn catalyst needs to rewritten too in my opinion, but if it causes some imbalances in game, djinn catalyst's ability might changed

and I will add some more

for instance in the last 5 towers meta as all players know

"when there is a manastorm event, when you cast stoneshield or celestial armourlike protection spells, you would take damage from event, but your protection spell would remain"

now in the bs2&hon meta "you won't take damage, but your protection spells are falling after blocking the damage from manastorm"

this kind of little examples can be multiplied, and as player we don't see any changelogs about these...

back to the topic, players does not have to watch streams, players does not have to even read forums

there must be "in game warnings about bugs, clearly" and ubi needs a solid and hard enforcement about bug using,

I know some accounts as "respected top players" nowadays, but they are just belias bot abusers of yesterday, even some crag abusers remained as unpunished....

and today people are saying to me "shame on you"

I feel really no shame, I feel just anger

I like this game very much, I just want to be informed well, I just want to see people who are using bugs gets punished

otherwise I will use them too for justice, for revenge, for anger, whatever you call, maybe for anarchy, cause its a part in my spirit

Ubi can win our trust and gratitude back, it is never late even though I am not hoping

but these are the main reasons what I wrote in my previous messages, anyways, gl hf to everyone in r2p, at least in those games there will be no bug abusers!

LurifaxB
05-13-2014, 09:14 PM
Just really?

When the creatures get the SPELL TYPE ABILITY?

When the for instance, a maniac is called as DEMON? When a arch lich was a LICH-DARK?

Really? You dont follow what's happening with the last patch and you're here to discuss with me? It's pretty normal why you react everything like "bug" at the first site. I did not. sometimes knowing and thinking about mechanics doesnt help, as we see.

Ignorance is a bless...

Edit: No offense meant.


Edit 2: I'm cought? Really? I said that i used, and checked and did everything a player should do, opened a thread, look for similar threads, since no official announcements here, i continued, as some other bugs still. And only think you can say, abuser etc. etc. Keep going. If words mean something, let them mean!!


I have a new nickname for you: QUARRELSOME

The developers how now stated on more than 1 occasion that it is a bug. Just accept it. I understand you need to justify your actions. Yes, it could have been interpreted in different ways. Yes you are forgiven if you truly did not know. Yet, now that it is stated it is bug (I hope you are not still arguing this?), move on and don't play the card in the bugged way.

Any player that still do, no amount of arguments can justify their actions. Then it is intentional bug abuse.

Quarison
05-13-2014, 09:30 PM
I have a new nickname for you: QUARRELSOME

The developers how now stated on more than 1 occasion that it is a bug. Just accept it. I understand you need to justify your actions. Yes, it could have been interpreted in different ways. Yes you are forgiven if you truly did not know. Yet, now that it is stated it is bug (I hope you are not still arguing this?), move on and don't play the card in the bugged way.

Any player that still do, no amount of arguments can justify their actions. Then it is intentional bug abuse.

Firstly thanks for your comment.

I'm not playing the bugged way, AFTER kimmundi's message. It is the first OFFICIAL message in these forums about this. Kimmundi stated that in a stream and irc it's told but, as a not dedicated player of this game, i dont use either irc or watching all the streams, only some. So i stated like hell that, i did not know about the bug. I'm repeating myself. I knew that something was off that card, searched but 2 different informations came up. I opened a thread in bug section of the forums and continued till an official explanation made. There are some issues as i mentioned Dark Ward and Mansoon or Fireburst hitting or even Banshee can kill a Blackskull crusher, i mentioned all this at my message. http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/876580-Some-Buggy-Actions-we-Observed

I'm not using buggy way, but i'm using in my deck with normal way. I'm not arguing that it's a bug or not. It's officially accepted and Kimmundi indicated that there will be an official announcement either. The quarrel between me and maiden of ethics. They're defending that we -the ones that used Ur-Juball's Call should DQ'ed from R2P, as their call, Road2Abuser which i loled too much. And I'm of course defending myself at the first place.

I'm not even contradicting myself once, i'm telling and giving any DATA that i have or know. In my perspective, they're look like playing an air guitar. Playing a guitar is different from it. Hope they will understand one day.

There are lots of quarrels right. But i suggest you to look that which posts have DATA in it, which has only accusations, or if it is a real game, btw Nilli i really laughed to that...


Edit: I really liked the nickname ^^


Edit 2 : I'm discussing with a person that does accept that Dark Ward is typed wrong, but does not accept that thinking of Ur-juball's Call could be the same because it's typed as OPPONENT, but does not care Dark Ward says SPELL while affecting creatures...

Way to go bro!!

banduan
05-14-2014, 03:11 AM
I think Dark Ward should indeed protect against dark creatures but the wording on the Dark Ward ability fails to indicate this. A rewording is necessary (Dark Spells -> Dark Cards).

holynecro
05-14-2014, 04:17 AM
Some of minions speak like they know Quarison and that made me really angry. Instead of writing absurd accusations toward players your target needs to be UBISOFT himself. Its UBISOFT's game and as infernal_wisdom stated players don't have to read forums and don't have to watch all streams. You need to get the minimum information for a healty play from the game itself. And hereby i challenge every player who thinks he is better then anyone else just because he is at the first page of monthly rating. My card pool is small so it will be small for you. best of 5 for a limited card pool. its free to challenge me. I am not this kind of person but just because you like to brag about what youve done till now doesnt mean everyone is like you. Some people just don't want to be noticed or don't need the fame in their life. they only get it when the proper title involves them. and in all of the people who write against Quarison's arguments i don't see a match for him not only on the forum but also in the game.

edit: i forgot to mention that. in dota 2 there is a method that can be called hook to the base. and that is the closest thing to crag hag bug because you immediately eliminate opponents key hero and tp to combat. all you need chen and butcher. and guess which team used that to win 2 games in that big tournament. it was NaVi. hooks from Dendi. i was watching alive and i dont remember anyone blaming players of NaVi for that. because it was part of the game. and game itself didnt state anything against it officialy.

and i want to add something more for the players who thinks that rage deck just wins because of this card (2 in a deck). you really need to try. this is not like 4 prison lock games. you need good reading of opponents.

trupiciel
05-14-2014, 09:53 AM
We have: Official forums, game loader, in game news section, r2p portal.

In all those placese there is no mention of Ur-Jabal and how to deal with it regarding the competition.

Does the card work contrary to the wording? It does. Have we seen other cards with 'questionable' wording in the past? We did. Can a player be sure if the card is working as intended or is it bugged? No because there is no official information about it.

__________________________________________________

Is Ubisoft implementing swift patches if there is anything wrong with the economic side of the game? Sure, fast like hell.

How long did it take them to patch a card like Week of Austerity in the past? Long enough to create whole range of new decks working only thanks to the event.

Is Ur-Jabal bug as gamebreaking as the Crag one? Not even closely.

__________________________________________________

Does it make sense to create huge, resource-eating live event that's meant to be 'competitive' which instead begins to feel rushed and really unprofessional?

Wouldn't it be better to have instead a smaller one, online, streamed with quality commenary and well thought rules, with $ prizepool maybe, with polished game client and game less bugged?

Those two 'open questions' I will not answer.

I still think you are a stupid http://i.imgur.com/ZRyUAlI.jpg if you keep abusing the urjabal after discovering it's not working as intended in a competitive environment whoever you might be :)

Kimundi
05-14-2014, 10:38 AM
We have been talking about this issue internally quite a bit and we are preparing to release an official statement regarding the bug and the impact on the competition. You can expect it this afternoon (European Time) or really soon.

jkk89
05-14-2014, 11:29 AM
@Trupi - the voice of reason.:)

@Kimmundi - it better be good!:P

MamuzShah
05-14-2014, 05:46 PM
To abuse of the bug is unfair.
I think it would be as unfair to punish abusers.
In fact, R2P is just definitivly an unfair competition.

Next time, ask Ubisoft to post the official text of the cards into a post linked to the competition. This way, to abuse of a bug stays unfair. To punish the abusers would become fair.

For now, in my opinion, the whole competition is corrupted definitivly.

Kimundi
05-14-2014, 07:11 PM
We have been talking about this issue internally quite a bit and we are preparing to release an official statement regarding the bug and the impact on the competition. You can expect it this afternoon (European Time) or really soon.

The official statement will likely be posted tomorrow during the day, sorry for the delay.

LurifaxB
05-14-2014, 07:30 PM
Firstly thanks for your comment.

I'm not playing the bugged way, AFTER kimmundi's message. It is the first OFFICIAL message in these forums about this. Kimmundi stated that in a stream and irc it's told but, as a not dedicated player of this game, i dont use either irc or watching all the streams, only some. So i stated like hell that, i did not know about the bug. I'm repeating myself. I knew that something was off that card, searched but 2 different informations came up. I opened a thread in bug section of the forums and continued till an official explanation made. There are some issues as i mentioned Dark Ward and Mansoon or Fireburst hitting or even Banshee can kill a Blackskull crusher, i mentioned all this at my message. http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/876580-Some-Buggy-Actions-we-Observed

I'm not using buggy way, but i'm using in my deck with normal way. I'm not arguing that it's a bug or not. It's officially accepted and Kimmundi indicated that there will be an official announcement either. The quarrel between me and maiden of ethics. They're defending that we -the ones that used Ur-Juball's Call should DQ'ed from R2P, as their call, Road2Abuser which i loled too much. And I'm of course defending myself at the first place.

I'm not even contradicting myself once, i'm telling and giving any DATA that i have or know. In my perspective, they're look like playing an air guitar. Playing a guitar is different from it. Hope they will understand one day.

There are lots of quarrels right. But i suggest you to look that which posts have DATA in it, which has only accusations, or if it is a real game, btw Nilli i really laughed to that...


Edit: I really liked the nickname ^^


Edit 2 : I'm discussing with a person that does accept that Dark Ward is typed wrong, but does not accept that thinking of Ur-juball's Call could be the same because it's typed as OPPONENT, but does not care Dark Ward says SPELL while affecting creatures...

Way to go bro!!

Hi again, forgot to write :-) in first post. I honestly applaud that you are dropping playing the card in a bugged way. I agree that the communication from Ubi has not been good which may cause some people to think it is working as intended. Now that the readers in this post know, we should act accordingly. The right thing for Ubi to do, is to state abusing bug will disqualify from r2p in the rules and on the homepage. That way no one should be unclear.

Glad you liked your nickname :-)

You can return the favor anytime (I like giving people nicknames).

trupiciel
05-14-2014, 07:52 PM
The nickname Lurifaxb always 'came' to me as LubricantX :cool:

LurifaxB
05-14-2014, 08:29 PM
The nickname Lurifaxb always 'came' to me as LubricantX :cool:

HA!

Thank you. I always thought of your name as GroupieCecil.

ulpsz
05-24-2014, 10:54 PM
, but i have the feeling that this games downfall will be due to mistakes at basic things and also the lack of flexibility when it comes to bug fixing etc.
.

one thing we totally agree on...


well if there was a serious money price invoved I understand abusing anything but as its now...