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jpozsr
05-08-2014, 04:23 AM
I have been playing now for awhile and currently a lord commander. I have to decide what to do now with Necro decks, I have been playing in both standard and open with a stronghold deck and I can not beat a necro deck. There creatures have more abilities and are lower casting cost then anything else in the game. So my choice now is to give up and stop playing this game or just surrender anytime I face a Necro deck. Why are they so unbalanced? Someone tell me why I should continue in a game so out of balance.

bambikitkat
05-08-2014, 04:52 AM
1st, if you are new stick to standart, if you go to open you'll most likely lose every game you play since you compete with old players that have all the cards out there.

2nd, since this game became pay2win for beginner, and that necro is the only cheap deck that can do decent (others deck will cost you to sell your mother for them), you'll meet a lot of them and you most likely will lose if they grabbed some cheap epic from bs2.

my advise would be for you to keep try harding until you reach champion 1, then leave each game you face a necro after that (champion 1 is for the wc quest and the gold/xp per game you win)

if you do not like this system i can only tell you to leave this game sadly and go for another one more beginner friendly this game isnt for you.

IBURNUALL
05-08-2014, 06:06 AM
I have been playing now for awhile and currently a lord commander. I have to decide what to do now with Necro decks, I have been playing in both standard and open with a stronghold deck and I can not beat a necro deck. There creatures have more abilities and are lower casting cost then anything else in the game. So my choice now is to give up and stop playing this game or just surrender anytime I face a Necro deck. Why are they so unbalanced? Someone tell me why I should continue in a game so out of balance.

Dude I feel your pain I have been the person screaming from the rooftops that the necro is overpowered and needs balancing etc etc. At the end of the day the ubisoft staff has proven they dont care what we think.

They made it broken and there not changing it anytime soon so your basically forced to quit or deal with this crap.

If you want to deal with it get the hero METAWA for stronghold and use Gysers to defeat the necro decks they struggle against that particular version of stronghold. If you cannot obtain Matewa then I dont really know I have lost with most other stronghold heros against necro as well.

If you decide to quit then good for you at least you were smart enough to just move on before this game goes to **** players have been complaining about several things since the patch has dropped and ubisoft has done absolutely nothing despite knowing ppl are unhappy they frankly dont give a F^*& they are too busy messing with their barrettes and baguettes to be bothered doing anything.

So with necro be prepared for the LONG HAUL prolly several months of dealing with this garbage, That or quit up to you.

Pjovejas
05-08-2014, 06:53 AM
Dude I feel your pain I have been the person screaming from the rooftops that the necro is overpowered and needs balancing etc etc. At the end of the day the ubisoft staff has proven they dont care what we think.


Necro isn't broken. Inferno can easily rush down it. Stronghold and santuary too (at least some builds). Not sure about academy. And this is all in standart.
And if you would remember: just a month (or so) ago, necro was the weakest faction in DoC. So with some change of the rules (formats separation) and new set (HoN) it is natural that necro faction was fixed a bit. Probably it is not seen if you joined the game recently, but IMHO it is just a fluctuation of relative factions power level. It is strong, but not OP. And most likely it will change with next expansion. And such course of the game is very usual for card games.

DarkProject00
05-08-2014, 07:42 AM
Necro isn't broken. Inferno can easily rush down it. Stronghold and santuary too (at least some builds). Not sure about academy. And this is all in standart.
And if you would remember: just a month (or so) ago, necro was the weakest faction in DoC. So with some change of the rules (formats separation) and new set (HoN) it is natural that necro faction was fixed a bit. Probably it is not seen if you joined the game recently, but IMHO it is just a fluctuation of relative factions power level. It is strong, but not OP. And most likely it will change with next expansion. And such course of the game is very usual for card games.

Yea lets all play rush to beat necro cause that's gonna solve the problem. They made it pointless to go higher then 4 might just cause of necros instant kills that hardly anything in standard can deal with. They make these nice strong cards for the factions that work REALLY well except when playing against necro.

IBURNUALL
05-08-2014, 07:52 AM
Necro isn't broken. Inferno can easily rush down it. Stronghold and santuary too (at least some builds). Not sure about academy. And this is all in standart.
And if you would remember: just a month (or so) ago, necro was the weakest faction in DoC. So with some change of the rules (formats separation) and new set (HoN) it is natural that necro faction was fixed a bit. Probably it is not seen if you joined the game recently, but IMHO it is just a fluctuation of relative factions power level. It is strong, but not OP. And most likely it will change with next expansion. And such course of the game is very usual for card games.

Ok in that way you make some sense but I want to make something PERFECTLY clear here so that you can understand where me and other gamers who are complaining about this issue is coming from

I dont care if necro is or was the top deck every format has to have a top deck thats fine even if it were the top deck its fine to have it be so.

The issue with the deck comes in the form of the WAY it wins. And the annoyance of playing agianst it and the torture of taking 20 + mins for it to finally overpower you despite being SOO far behind and just making a magical comeback that doesnt rely on skill or effort but simply the power of the cards the deck possess. It is what we internet people like to call DERPY.

I have been beaten by far less skillful players who make a handful of misplays with the deck yet they still win basically teaching them nothing and allowing them to think that the way they played was correct when it in fact was not correct.

The deck detracts from overall gameplay and enjoyment and allows players who are clearly weaker than you skill wise defeat you regardless of your skill level just because of the sheer removal the deck has access to.

Unless you purposely go out of your way to eighter counter his deck totally making you useless to other factions or building matawa deleb or masfar otk in order to overpower its DERPNESS.

Pjovejas
05-08-2014, 09:02 AM
They make these nice strong cards for the factions that work REALLY well except when playing against necro.

Wrong. Big expensive fat creatures almost never worked well with very rare exceptions. And not only because of necro removals, but also due to the fact that they were never usefull against rushes and bounce also.

and to INBURNUALL:

Well, I can understand your frustration :) If it would help, I could mention that there were (and some still are) much more borring decks to play against and to play a looong game. There was Dhamiria (almost or entirely creatureless); mill decks; Ignatius discard; Shaar OTK end so on. So if it will will comforts you at least a bit, the necro games are not such... :)

As for about the skills: well I guess it much depends on card base. If your oponent makes huge and often misplays, then you loose only if your card base is poor. Or your deck is inferior just because... For example I think that standart haven is very weak against well built inferno. And you can do nothing against that.

Jarema03
05-08-2014, 10:46 AM
I understand frustration of playing long, boring game against necro.
But I do not agree that necro is necessarilly OP, I do not agree that it is true even at the low level. I think that starter inferno deck (of course after removing trash cards) will win most of games against starter necro deck. And the same will be true for an inferno deck with some decent cards against necro deck with some decent cards.
Of course, no creatures which costs 5 or more (with the few exceptions, when you are 100% sure what you are doing). But it is true not only against necro.

bambikitkat
05-08-2014, 11:17 AM
lol inferno with some decent card stand no chance vs necro wit 4 banshee and all the uncommon spell (because best inferno cards are in HoN)

Breakhorn
05-08-2014, 12:20 PM
Ofc,n Necro with a full tier 1 deck will beat a inferno with crap cards!
Still you can build good decks with other factions too (Acamas anyone ?).
There will always be decks stronger than other, that or no more card releasing to perfectly balance the game.

bambikitkat
05-08-2014, 02:07 PM
you are stupid arent you ? a banshee cost 7 WC any lava spawn or rare inferno that are necessary to build atleast a decent deck cost 15 or 21 WC so yeah give me 50 wc for a necro, take 50 wc for your inferno i'll beat you 9 games out of 10 with your crappy inferno deck while mine would be complete with a low WC budget.

Only solution to deal with that would be to reduce the price of the HoN cards after its released in gold, but hey its ubisoft and they have some sheep to follow any ****ty move they make (well not that much though when you look at the hard drop of players)

Pjovejas
05-08-2014, 03:06 PM
you are stupid arent you ?

So quick insulting others while you talk stupidities yourself, aren't you? :D
In the time when you'll be ready cast your first banshee, most likely you'll be dead or close to dead if fighting against well built inferno deck. Of course there is always "bad draws" etc., but if normal draws, then usually inferno can just rush faster

bambikitkat
05-08-2014, 03:24 PM
against well built inferno deckr

look like you have some problem reading , no wonder you say so much wrong stuff

a well built inferno will cost you over 200 WC which you wont get when starting the game.

w/e like said Enclase yesterday on his DoC stream, he ragequited after 5 or 6 games to go on Hearthstone "stop telling me DoC is a good game, no one is playing it so it cant be that much of a good game"

Jarema03
05-08-2014, 03:24 PM
lol inferno with some decent card stand no chance vs necro wit 4 banshee and all the uncommon spell (because best inferno cards are in HoN)

yeah. probably.

but I would rather compare inferno with some decent cards with necro with 1 banshee and few uncommon spells. (well, maybe even ALL uncommon spells it needs. inferno can suck it up with its dozen of cheap creatures and non-direct damage to enemy hero)

Jarema03
05-08-2014, 03:26 PM
so yeah give me 50 wc for a necro, take 50 wc for your inferno i'll beat you 9 games out of 10 with your crappy inferno deck while mine would be complete with a low WC budget.
I bet I'll beat you 6 or more games out of 10 if we both have starter decks + cards worth 50 WC. 5 out of this games it will be almost over or over at turn 6.

One thing sure, I will not use lava spawns. And, probably, I will not use spells above cost of 1 either.

Breakhorn
05-08-2014, 04:11 PM
w/e like said Enclase yesterday on his DoC stream, he ragequited after 5 or 6 games to go on Hearthstone "stop telling me DoC is a good game, no one is playing it so it cant be that much of a good game"
I don't get how is Hearthstone better ? I have a huge pay to win feeling when playing it. Sure you can grind throught Arena, but in order to know the cards well enough to have worth it Arena, you need to grind like hell. Even so, with full cards set the game feel sloow, and all you do is play cards, barelly thinking about the way you place cards.

XXAbratzo
05-08-2014, 04:43 PM
Necro is AWFULL SLOW, a banshee costs 6 ressources and removes exactly ONE enemy, when the Opponent has rushed you down 40 banshee wont help you.

Standard Format is currently even more rushier than Legacy was, in todays JP i met 10 opponents, 2 Deleb, 3 Yukiko, 2 Zardoc, 2 Acamas and something else from those 3 factions.
Necro is NO LONGER DOMINANT at least in Tournament meta, the ultra rushes rule.
Necro shines in mid or lategame if you dont have stabilised before, you are toast and Soulreaver, Banshee and Boneyards are way to expensive to help you stabilising early, those are lategame Cards.
Necro IS easily beatable and if i had Lava spawns i would Play Inferno all day, if i had Honor binds Us i would play Sanctuary, those decks own necro (currently) all the day.

Jarema03
05-08-2014, 08:43 PM
Necro is AWFULL SLOW, a banshee costs 6 ressources and removes exactly ONE enemy, when the Opponent has rushed you down 40 banshee wont help you.

Standard Format is currently even more rushier than Legacy wasy
that.




Necro IS easily beatable and if i had Lava spawns i would Play Inferno all day
I have them, and I have 2 different standard inferno deck I play. I include them in only one. In fact, they are not exactly matching ultra-rush deck, I like to use them in discard-oriented deck

jetz0r
05-08-2014, 09:56 PM
w/e like said Enclase yesterday on his DoC stream, he ragequited after 5 or 6 games to go on Hearthstone "stop telling me DoC is a good game, no one is playing it so it cant be that much of a good game"

Welp, losing dedicated streamers is a good sign.

jpozsr
05-08-2014, 11:08 PM
When I started this thread, I did not entend for poeple to insult one another so please stop that.

My major problem is I started playing about 2 weeks before the change so most of what I have is base 1. I am trying to work on a more standerd deck but that is taking a lot of time, and I dont have lots of money to buy what I need. At least in the old eco system we had a chance to get seals and help improve your decks. Then of couse the new deck they gave me was a santurary deck which didnt mix well with my strongbold deck. I enjoy playing this game but it is getting far to expesive and the necro decks are just ridiculous.

jpozsr
05-13-2014, 06:57 AM
I think that creatures with immune to retaliation and life drain on the same creature is way out of balance. I have started boycotting Necro decks I hope some of you will join me.

Daefon
05-13-2014, 10:43 AM
As has been pointed out by multiple different people in this thread, necro is not too strong.
- Inferno can outrush it and defeat it easily
- Stronghold can outrush it with decent draws and is probably at 50-50 odds for winning
- Haven, Academy and Sanctuary are weaker in standard but that is a different balance problem.
- Additionally, due to being slower, Necro is weaker against decks with different win conditions, like mass rage decks or (Masfar) combo

However, that does not mean there is no problem. There is a problem and this problem has been there for a long time. MMDoC is not balanced by set or by rarity.

In order to play Stronghold or Inferno competitively, you need cards from the Heart of nightmares set. That means newer players have no/less access to this and it is in this environment Necro is dominating all, because all good cards for Necro are in BS2.

The balancing strategy the dev team uses really is no help there, as they will supplement strong factions with weak cards (ex. Necro in Forgotten Wars) and weak faction with strong cards (ex. Sanctuary in FW).

Additionally, this is even more reinforced by the balancing by rarity. The dev and test team is too small to test cards by rarity. If you want a competitive inferno deck, you need a large quantity of rares and epics: Week of Mercenaries, Caller of the Void, Lava Spawn, Thrall of Hatred. These are all key cards for the deck. If you want to run a competitive Stronghold deck, the only rare or epic you really need is Week of Mercenaries. All other cards are either common or uncommon. In fact, aside from Zefiria and Blackskull Clan Warlord, the rares and epics for Stronghold are relatively weak and in some cases even downright unplayable.


TLDR: Necro is not OP but is dominating in the lower tiers because of card availability