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View Full Version : Solutions to end the exile of players (and many more problems)



Guerthal
04-28-2014, 04:33 AM
Jackpot Tournament attendance is declining FAST! I see 1503 people in it right now with 8 hours left. That's 1/6th of what it was around January-February. We don't have all the statistics that Ubisoft has about attendance but this cannot be good no matter what.

The problem I see derives not from the bad changes that were made but by the time it takes for Ubisoft to turn around when they make one. Sometimes there would also be a problem about transparency, where people would know that a fix is incoming but would stay in the dark as to when it would be implemented for a long period of time. Remember any time in the past where you liked the game as it was and then Ubisoft changed things, people showed discontent and some months later (usually when the next expansion would come out) they would have this one Twitch stream where they would answer LOTS of questions that people had been asking for MONTHS. I think people have lost faith in Ubisoft's swiftness to address problems in a timely fashion. Cynicism in the forums would be a good way to see this happening.

I also see a lot of people complaining in the forums but sadly, more often than not they don't bring any solutions to the conversation. All-in-all, most people lack patience, but those are the customers that Ubisoft has so they gotta roll with it.

I believe a weekly journal/update/podcast/Twitch stream with everything that the devs can tell us would start to make a difference. From what I've seen, when they go on Twitch they never come close to addressing every known issues as they probably don't have much to tell us about it. But simply telling us that they don't have much to say about it makes it clear that they are aware of the situation. Not saying anything makes us feel that they are too slow to react. I believe saying you don't have anything to say is better than to say nothing.

Another side of the coin is that most players don't post in these forums, don't watch streams and don't use the website (I gotta say, the website's updates are stretched too far apart one-another). I would know, I was one of those players. I've always wondered why they did not implement something to allow us to go straight from the launcher to the news section of the website (I play on PC, maybe it works on a phone/tablet but it sure doesn't on my computer). If such a thing would exist AND would link us to my idea above (journal/update/podcast/Twitch stream) I believe A LOT more people would start to be aware of what's coming up and when it's coming up. That would quench most of the cynicism going about in the forums. That cynicism in itself is enough to frighten some potential new players when they show up for the first times on the forums. I'm also guessing that the more cynical players are, the less their voice is heard by the devs because hey, who likes to listen to a ****** anyway (I've been that ****** sometimes, shame on me) let alone start a conversation through the forums with them. So they end up waiting for the time when they can announce the changes and as I said earlier, people are impatient. I see something clashing here, am I the only one with such an opinion?

When I did the topic "It's time to show Ubisoft our discontent (unlike them on facebook)" my whole idea was cynical but in the end I was trying to draw the devs attention to the fact that when we don't know what's coming, it's (too) easy to think that nothing is coming. I read a lot of what was going on in the forums before making that post and I was struck by the little amount of posts from devs I could find. More so, they were almost all in sticky topics and the other non-sticky topics where devoid or replies. From what I read from the devs response in my other topic they do read EVERYTHING we post so I've now changed my approach. Instead of trying to draw their attention with my posts/topics I'll now try to draw their attention to where I think the biggest issues are. If everyone who's cynical about the devs ability to correct their wrongs stopped doing it and started contributing to the solutions (even if 1 single person does it it's better than no one), I feel that the devs response would be to start telling us more about upcoming changes.

About said upcoming changes: I think there should be a section in the forums where Ubisoft puts ALL the POSSIBLE changes as soon as they are invented, with a warning that everything written in that section might not make it to the final version of the game. That way people could actually point out the good and bad way, way before it's implemented. I'd suspect that this way some potential bad changes could be spotted before it's too late. And as I said, I think it would lower the amount of cynicism there is at the moment in the community.

Who's with me?

P.S. Too many people have already said there should be some alternate art available for real money for Ubisoft to not have noticed. Somehow I'm thinking they are busy implementing it. I just know for a fact that some people who don't plan on using real money in the game (because they already did or not is a moot point) would be happy to learn that it's the case, which would put them in a mindset that makes them want to spend cash on this game. I know I'd be one of those happy camper. Just a simple line of text somewhere seen by lots of players (maybe the launcher sending us to my idea of a journal/update...) could make some of them want to spend cash on this game. I can't imagine what a weekly podcast + a thread in the forums with future potential changes to the game would do but it can't be bad; It just can't be! Sh*t, just thinking about it makes me start to wonder how much per month I'd feel comfortable to dish out on this game... So who's with me?

zedington
04-28-2014, 06:09 AM
For what it's worth, "exile" means cast out and refused re-entry. I think the word you were looking for is "exodus".

Thorssen64
04-28-2014, 06:17 AM
Movement of Jah people!

OP: yes OFC it's a good idea if the devs talk to the players more often and give a response to issues that are raised by many. It's really such a no-brainer in customer service terms that you have to wonder why they all want to play "hideaway".

valrond1
04-28-2014, 07:28 AM
Maybe people have finally realized that jackpot isn't worth it. I played it once, and I didn't play again. Why? because I was losing money. Despite finishing in T5 and getting some money back, spending one ticket for barely any winnings if at all isn't worth it, only the top players will get something out of it. And with a lot of daily quests about swiss, well, the more reason people prefer to play swissl that is every day now, btw, than JP.

Jarema03
04-28-2014, 08:15 AM
great post!
+1

Guerthal
04-28-2014, 08:21 AM
For what it's worth, "exile" means cast out and refused re-entry. I think the word you were looking for is "exodus".

Yup thanks. Now with proper English!

Guerthal
04-28-2014, 08:23 AM
Maybe people have finally realized that jackpot isn't worth it. I played it once, and I didn't play again. Why? because I was losing money. Despite finishing in T5 and getting some money back, spending one ticket for barely any winnings if at all isn't worth it, only the top players will get something out of it. And with a lot of daily quests about swiss, well, the more reason people prefer to play swissl that is every day now, btw, than JP.

It doesn't cost any tickets to enter Jackpot.

Jarema03
04-28-2014, 08:32 AM
I think Valrond means that it is not worth to have your gold income reduced by half...

and, for most players, it is not.

For example, I typicaly lost gold by playing jackpot instead of ranked games. But I just like jackpot better than regular ranked matches

Guerthal
04-28-2014, 09:20 AM
It would be awesome if we could stay on subject, which I was highlighting with the example of the jackpot situation. The state of the Jackpot Tournament itself isn't the subject.

thanasis
04-28-2014, 09:39 AM
In this world there are usually two categories of players. Those that have money to spend and those that have time to spend.
There is no need to re-invent the wheel. Those that don't have time but have the money, will pay so that they reach a high level without going through the grinding phase. Those that don't want to spend money but have a lot of spare time will try to reach a high level by grinding instead.
In order for a F2P game to be succesful it has to satisfy both categories. Because if the first category is not satisfied the game won't have any revenue and if the second category is not satisfied the game won't have enough players.
In order for the paying players to be satisfied they must feel they are getting enough for their money. In my country you can buy a-couple-of-years-old computer game that has been re-published by the company for 5 Euros. You can also buy a MtG booster pack for 4 Euros. I have bought literally hundrends of these republished games, most of whom I have never played, just because I like to collect them and I feel I'm getting enough value for my money. I wouldn't buy a booster pack for 4 Euro though, even though I liked the game, because it wouldn't help my game almost at all and I know I would have to buy many more in order to improve my game substantially or make some sort of a collection. Thus I'm feeling I'm not getting enough value for my money.
And that's the main problem of all the CCG, spending a modest amount of money won't get you anywhere. You have to spend a huge amount of money to have any impact on your playing ability. I think that's why many of these games have transformed into TCG, because this way the player feels he will be able to get back an amount of the money he has spent when he decides to quit the game, and this makes his decision to spend money in the game easier. Anyway I believe that the cost of a booster pack should be equivalent to the impact a single booster pack has on the playing ability of the buyer. Since this impact of a single booster pack is trivial, its cost should be a trivial amount of money as well.
Now, as far as free players are concerned, in order for them to be satisfied, they must get the feeling that they will be able to reach a high level of the game in an acceptable amount of time and without having to spend 8 hours per day in order to do so. Otherwise they wouldn't be bothered to install the game in the first place.

Regalian6
04-28-2014, 11:59 AM
heh swift... I've stopped playing for over a week waiting for the daily rewards to be changeable. I can't believe they still haven't patched it.

valrond1
04-28-2014, 12:36 PM
It would be awesome if we could stay on subject, which I was highlighting with the example of the jackpot situation. The state of the Jackpot Tournament itself isn't the subject.

But you're saying there's an exodus of players and the only evidence to bring to the table is the number of player of jackpots. I say that maybe the lower number of player in jackpots is because most people lose money, and now you have swiss every day, while before the patch we had one day of JP and the other of swiss.

gabusan
04-28-2014, 01:36 PM
heh swift... I've stopped playing for over a week waiting for the daily rewards to be changeable. I can't believe they still haven't patched it.

They didnt patch it because this was a feature they had planned carefully and now they are pondering about if they should change it as requested or let the players rage until they accept it. Unless enough people stops playing, I think the mandatory quests feature is here to stay.

Thorssen64
04-28-2014, 01:59 PM
Oh well; some of us are only hanging on waiting for them to change it. Maybe we should just leave now instead?

gabusan
04-28-2014, 02:42 PM
Oh well; some of us are only hanging on waiting for them to change it. Maybe we should just leave now instead?

Well, the more you play, the more they think you are accepting the daily quest current system, even if you dont like it much. Personally, I am playing the minimum to get reasonable quests completed.

Guerthal
04-28-2014, 05:20 PM
Lemme make it clearer for everyone. I offered some solutions to change the way Ubisoft communicates with us.


Problem: The problem I see derives not from the bad changes that were made but by the time it takes for Ubisoft to turn around when they make one.

Solution: I believe a weekly journal/update/podcast/Twitch stream with everything that the devs can tell us would start to make a difference.

Problem: Another side of the coin is that most players don't post in these forums, don't watch streams and don't use the website.

Solution: I've always wondered why they did not implement something to allow us to go straight from the launcher to the news section of the website. If such a thing would exist AND would link us to my idea above (journal/update/podcast/Twitch stream) I believe A LOT more people would start to be aware of what's coming up and when it's coming up. That would quench most of the cynicism going about in the forums.

Problem: Sometimes there would also be a problem about transparency, where people would know that a fix is incoming but would stay in the dark as to when it would be implemented for a long period of time. I think people have lost faith in Ubisoft's swiftness to address problems in a timely fashion.

Solution: I think there should be a section in the forums where Ubisoft puts ALL the POSSIBLE changes as soon as they are invented, with a warning that everything written in that section might not make it to the final version of the game. That way people could actually point out the good and bad way, way before it's implemented. I'd suspect that this way some potential bad changes could be spotted before it's too late.

Who's with me?

Woodder
04-29-2014, 12:41 AM
While I do understand the frustration due to the Quest system (I have posted in the suggestion forum about my idea), there is something the gaming community lack is the knowledge of software development in general.

The option to cancel a quest (which is the easiest way to address the issue) is what we call a "feature" not a bug fix. It requires to program it accordingly, then to make modification to the User Interface, then to pass it through some testing. All this does require time, its not a 5 minute thing, its a multiple days / work thing and there are many different person involved in it.

I don't work for Ubisoft, but as a software developer myself I can understand that it takes time to address this, and it is not because of bad will.

Annyway to stay on the focus of the initial post: I do agree that a daily / weekly updated post by the Developer community would help handling the lack of patience of the community.That is probably a lot easier said than done, but that would help.

m3chladon54
04-29-2014, 01:12 AM
They didnt patch it because this was a feature they had planned carefully and now they are pondering about if they should change it as requested or let the players rage until they accept it. Unless enough people stops playing, I think the mandatory quests feature is here to stay.

I'm actually branching out to other card games myself since this may be true. If it stays this way I'm out. It would be acceptable if we still got 1 wild card from new expansion gold purchased packs.

There are new card games coming out or already out that have more tolerable systems, free market at work. I've put 800+ hours into DoC. Might be time to just move on instead. I'm patiently waiting for changes while playing other games while waiting.

Regalian6
04-29-2014, 02:56 AM
While I do understand the frustration due to the Quest system (I have posted in the suggestion forum about my idea), there is something the gaming community lack is the knowledge of software development in general.

The option to cancel a quest (which is the easiest way to address the issue) is what we call a "feature" not a bug fix. It requires to program it accordingly, then to make modification to the User Interface, then to pass it through some testing. All this does require time, its not a 5 minute thing, its a multiple days / work thing and there are many different person involved in it.

I don't work for Ubisoft, but as a software developer myself I can understand that it takes time to address this, and it is not because of bad will.

Annyway to stay on the focus of the initial post: I do agree that a daily / weekly updated post by the Developer community would help handling the lack of patience of the community.That is probably a lot easier said than done, but that would help.

I'm sure it takes time. But when an important feature comes out as doesn't perform up to par (maybe they didn't thought it out well enough, heck hearthstone let people cancel quests before ours came out and I'm sure we got inspiration from there) it should be their priority to patch it. People can be understanding but in the real world most only judge the results you produce and not how hard you worked.

larkhainan
04-29-2014, 03:08 AM
Jackpots are a terrible metric since jackpots are a terrible waste of time unless you can consistently string 4+ wins together within a pretty limited time frame. Most players can't do that. Since the JP relies on player pool, eventually the lower tier players (the bottom 70%) realize it is a waste of time and stop doing it. As it continues to decline, it is a waste of time for more and more of the remaining players, until no one is left.

The option to cancel a quest (which is the easiest way to address the issue) is what we call a "feature" not a bug fix. It requires to program it accordingly, then to make modification to the User Interface, then to pass it through some testing. All this does require time, its not a 5 minute thing, its a multiple days / work thing and there are many different person involved in it.Actually, the easiest solution is to reverse the back queuing. Right now new quests are added to your queue (although there is a limit, not certain if it one or two) and then deleted if the queue overflows. But the front daily will always remain.

The easiest solution is to have the new daily replace the old one, which strikes me as extremely easy to do, as the existing system must sort based on some method and it seems ridiculous that a daily quest queue would be somehow hardcoded to never sort on date. This would basically resolve 90% of the issues people have with the system. Given MMDOC seems programmed at a pretty decent level of competence - I certainly find the GUI and engine excellent on both my machines, especially compared to the fecal residue that is MTGO - I do not think it is a programming error.

As I've said else where, it is possible they are going through a skinning the sheep phase.

thanasis
04-29-2014, 08:43 AM
Actually, the easiest solution is to reverse the back queuing. Right now new quests are added to your queue (although there is a limit, not certain if it one or two) and then deleted if the queue overflows. But the front daily will always remain.

The easiest solution is to have the new daily replace the old one, which strikes me as extremely easy to do, as the existing system must sort based on some method and it seems ridiculous that a daily quest queue would be somehow hardcoded to never sort on date. This would basically resolve 90% of the issues people have with the system. Given MMDOC seems programmed at a pretty decent level of competence - I certainly find the GUI and engine excellent on both my machines, especially compared to the fecal residue that is MTGO - I do not think it is a programming error.

As I've said else where, it is possible they are going through a skinning the sheep phase.

Don't be naive. It doesn't take them so long to change it because they don't know how to program it.
They are not changing it because that's the way they intended it to be working.
In the best case they are now considering whether they will leave it as it is, or change it in a way though that it would not be too beneficial for the players.

Guerthal
04-30-2014, 02:18 PM
So, anyone else wanna support the idea of asking the devs for a weekly update? And have the launcher direct us to that weekly update?

gabusan
04-30-2014, 04:36 PM
There are new card games coming out or already out that have more tolerable systems, free market at work. I've put 800+ hours into DoC. Might be time to just move on instead. I'm patiently waiting for changes while playing other games while waiting.

Lets be realistic here for a moment, if you put 800+ hours in the game, you are not going anywhere anytime soon. It is common sense, because no matter how much the other games offer to you, you already made a heavy investment in this one. They could remove the wild card system altogether, and you would still have a more than decent collection in here after having played 800+ hours, enough cards to justify keep playing. The ones who are at risk of leaving the game are the new players, and these are unable to see the broader picture, all they see are 15k packs relatively easy to get that provide them with new cards. They dont see how bleak things are going to get.

This is actually the business model of many FTP games, give a lot of stuff at the begining and then demand money to keep advancing. New players dont think in the long term, they are getting fun for free when they join, after all, and veteran players have invested so much time already, paying a few bucks to conserve their time investment is reasonable.

Like it or not, this is the new business model for DoC, a true and tested business model that has made rich many game develpment companies out there. As things are now, getting new cards is a privilege of those willing to pay or those that have few cards and can still open packs to get their collections to grow. Of course, you can get those measly 1-2 wild cards per week so you dont feel like you are stuck. But they idea is that at some point you wont be able to take it any more and you will pay for your wild cards.

avitaru
04-30-2014, 07:35 PM
It would be nice if we get some more feedback from the dev. It doesn't have to be a weekly format (i'd accept one update every 14 days) though that doesn't seem to be too much to ask. But there's no point in asking for updates if they aren't going to adress urgent questions, and who decides what gets adressed and what not?

Having said that, no communication to the playerbase is just insulting that same playerbase.

And yes please, fix the daily quest. There's no fun in having to stare at the same impossible quest every day while others get their wildcards or w/e other rewards. The idea to stimulate to try different decks is brilliant, but the execution on how it's implemented is broken and begging for a major overhaul. Give us options dont let it be stuck.