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Hristo_
01-05-2004, 04:27 AM

Hristo_
01-05-2004, 04:27 AM

Fehler
01-05-2004, 06:32 AM
As I have said many times this is one of the things that is really needed in a good air combat sim.

Anyone who has ever been in a combat aircraft during maneuvers can attest to a certain amount of fatigue asserted on the pilot during high G moves.

I read somewhere once that typical WWII dogfights lasted a very short periods of time, even seconds. I think a big reason for this was pilot fatigue.

I know there are some limitations to sims caused by computer ability, but a generic pilot "G" meter shouldnt be that hard to do.

I know that the planes in FB are pretty accurate, but the question I have always had was, "How long could a pilot do some of these maneuvers?"

The simplified black/red outs are OK, and better than nothing, but if BoB is really going to be leaps and bounds above IL2/FB for realism and complexity, pilot fatigue MUST be simulated to some degree and much better than in IL2/FB.

Given Oleg's views on accuracy, I cant wait for 2005 to see what he comes up with. It will surely prove interesting!

(Hristo) Get ahold of Kirin. Since you are flying on-line now, there is no reason you shouldnt be in the air with the rest of us. Click on my link below and shoot me and Kirin some Email!

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FG31stBoogie
01-05-2004, 07:17 AM
S! i agree with you guys however, i believe that certain things just cant be duplicated in a sim. You need to be able to FEEL it, and i dont think there is anyway to simulate that. Like when your pilot gets wounded and cant fly as well as a healthy pilot, at least you can tell because the screen is a redish tint. CFS2 tried that with something called reality-X in terms of G damage where it had a G reading at the top of your screen. If you exceeded to many G's your plane would explode. Good idea but, you couldnt FEEL it in your stick so all you could do was just fly and watch that stupid guage. Sorry guys, like i said, i think its a great idea for those of us who may never fly in combat to want a sim that delivers this kind of reality. However, i dont think any attempt at it would be very "realistic." Thats my 3 cents worth gents..Boogie out,,,S!

rosaenrico
01-05-2004, 07:37 AM
Hi all
Fehler, i totally agree with you.
Yes, it can't be "feeled" on a PC, nevertheless fatigue = 0 is less reasonable than an indicated fatigue.
Salute

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2004, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> CFS2...exceeded to many G's your plane would explode. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>hahaha good one.

It would be interesting if joystick inputs were modified by loss of hehe pilot stamina. But you would see endless Whining about that.

Pilot Stamina is a Male flight simmer construct and greatest FEAR in Life. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And the AI still sees in the dark. HAHAHA

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LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2004, 07:49 AM
Forgot to Vote NO. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OKAY, there are ways this could be made interesting.

(1) Exhaustion or loss of "stamina" results in earlier blackout or redout.

But the problems are way over the top. Do we sim a Newbie pilot? Of course not, we only sim the Aces, and wear their skins as our own. What pilot skill do we sim our base "stamina" levels. Often pilots didn't know they lost "stamina" until AFTER the fight, you know, the Superhuman strength that people get when they are very afraid. This cannot be modelled.

Another Problem:: Some refuse to fly with Oleg's blackout option because in FB its A GRAFIX DISASTER and looks like crap over the FB. Flanker 1.0, and *only* that olde version, got it right, so I know it can be done properly.

"Stamina" that changes your joystick input is the only thing left that I can think of right now, and that will be a FB Forum Disaster, just watch and see. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



ns = no spit



__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

[This message was edited by LEXX_Luthor on Mon January 05 2004 at 07:03 AM.]

Fennec_P
01-05-2004, 09:15 AM
I'd just like to see a blackout model that is more strict than FB, and less tolerant of abrupt changes in G force. The blackout progresses far too slowly, even when you do 10-20G pullouts, which in reality should be akin to a baseball bat to your cranium.

Also longer time passed out to reflect severity of the blackout, and some kind of modelling of disorientation post-blackout (somthing as simple as a blurry screen).

And perhaps a "puke-o-meter" to dissuade people from stick stirring.

ZG77_Lignite
01-05-2004, 09:22 AM
I certainly agree with Fehler, it will add an important aspect to the sim. Hopefully adaptable for AI use also, as it will greatly increase online and offline tactics, attitudes and results. All imho of course.

BfHeFwMe
01-05-2004, 11:38 AM
I don't think no one here or on the team is qualified to even draw up a model. You need a qualified aerospace physicians input before I'll even be bothered listening to your unqualified perceptions.

No one even going to think about other factors like adrenalin and it's exhaustive after effects, how do you know it's only G causing all fatigue. Things aren't as simple and clear cut as you've been lead to believe.

SeaFireLIV
01-05-2004, 12:13 PM
I agree, and every person has different stamina limits. We would have to take into account a variety of people`s strengths. It`s not really feasible.

`Man is an embodied paradox, a bundle of contradictions.` Lacon.
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rosaenrico
01-05-2004, 01:37 PM
Hi all.
Regarding these objections about modelloing some sort of fatigue:
1) can't be modelled accurately due to its complexity
2) it depends by person to person,
my opinion is: since right now it is not modelled, any step forward would represent an improvement in the game (example: stall behaviour is very complex to represent, but i guess no one would prefer playing without it rather than with a simplified stall modelling).
With regards to the second point, I personally would accept a standardised resistance to fatigue, even if representing "only" a medium pilot; would be a step towards more realism, since now we already have a standardised G-tolerance, which incidentally is regulated on a superman.

PS don't get me wrong, even if I would like a more complex "fatigue" be implemented, I consider this sim a great one.
Salute

Hristo_
01-05-2004, 05:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:

(Hristo) Get ahold of Kirin. Since you are flying on-line now, there is no reason you shouldnt be in the air with the rest of us. Click on my link below and shoot me and Kirin some Email!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

for some reason my Outlook is giving me trouble...so I'll start a private topic with you and Kirin here, ok ?

SKULLS_LZ
01-05-2004, 10:10 PM
does having to take a crap real bad count as "fatigue"?

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TheGozr
01-06-2004, 12:37 AM
Everyone has a different fatigue resistence and 6 gs is not much at all in fights. i went more than that.. and if you black out at 6 Gs you'll never be a fighter pilot for sure.

play FB for quite some time and yourself will be tire already so don't add more...


and maybe we can ask for some adrenaline tuning too? so plz its BS

-GOZR