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RinoTheBouncer
04-27-2014, 09:01 AM
Ok, I know this wasn’t mentioned in any of the games or books, at least not clearly, but I keep wondering if a civilization that is millennia ahead of us in evolution that got far enough to creating humans/helping them evolve from pre-existing species, create artifacts that control them and are physically superior enough to have 6 senses instead of five and seeing through the possibilities of the future, has even thought about exploring nearby or distant planets for the sake of knowledge or even terraformed whole or parts of some planets that can help them survive the solar flare.

It could be such a great point to bring up in future games. Maybe the First Civ. has managed to stay alive somewhere else and they might come back someday.

Discuss!

Hans684
04-27-2014, 09:43 AM
Ok, I know this wasn’t mentioned in any of the games or books, at least not clearly, but I keep wondering if a civilization that is millennia ahead of us in evolution that got far enough to creating humans/helping them evolve from pre-existing species, create artifacts that control them and are physically superior enough to have 6 senses instead of five and seeing through the possibilities of the future, has even thought about exploring nearby or distant planets for the sake of knowledge or even terraformed whole or parts of some planets that can help them survive the solar flare.

They have done it, they sent AOE's in to the sky as shown in AC3 and sent one AOE to the moon. They most likely had the means to travel to another planet but they where focused on saving Earth. It can still be used as a plot point that some of the First Civilization saw no hope in the future of Earth, so those left to another planet. While there can be some others to be looking for knowledge. But since they didn't have the energy/power/means(and time) needed to build 4 towers to stop the solar flare and their other solutions, it's just as likely that they didn't have power needed to travel around space long enough to reach a new livable planet with their people.


It could be such a great point to bring up in future games. Maybe the First Civ. has managed to stay alive somewhere else and they might come back someday. Discuss!

That would be interesting but I don't won't it to be handled like an alien invasion with large space ships where they come in peace or is treat but something a little more different.

RinoTheBouncer
04-27-2014, 10:39 AM
They have done it, they sent AOE's in to the sky as shown in AC3 and sent one AOE to the moon. They most likely had the means to travel to another planet but they where focused on saving Earth. It can still be used as a plot point that some of the First Civilization saw no hope in the future of Earth, so those left to another planet. While there can be some others to be looking for knowledge. But since they didn't have the energy/power/means(and time) needed to build 4 towers to stop the solar flare and their other solutions, it's just as likely that they didn't have power needed to travel around space long enough to reach a new livable planet with their people.



That would be interesting but I don't won't it to be handled like an alien invasion with large space ships where they come in peace or is treat but something a little more different.

Yeah, I know about the AOE that was sent to the Moon and the idea of directing it’s beam to affect all citizens. The thing is, non of the solutions talked about just leaving. Maybe a Space ship that floats somewhere near Mars with enough resources to live another 50 years or even 100 until the effect of the solar flare is gone. Perhaps some were rich and powerful enough to leave. I think it would be really interesting. Maybe they did travel and they did return and that can be justified with the conspiracies that suggest seeing flying objects in the sky..etc.

cawatrooper9
04-27-2014, 01:30 PM
Well, it's certainly possible.

I know that the "Summer of Love" lead in AC4 was a joke, but it really was a tumultuous time- add to that some of the early shuttle launches and maybe a First Civ temple on the moon, and you might actually have a really interesting game!

RinoTheBouncer
04-27-2014, 04:34 PM
Well, it's certainly possible.

I know that the "Summer of Love" lead in AC4 was a joke, but it really was a tumultuous time- add to that some of the early shuttle launches and maybe a First Civ temple on the moon, and you might actually have a really interesting game!

That would be a dream come true for me. I’d love to see AC expanding beyond just recognizable factions, revolutions and locations with some cool graphics. I wanna see the story progressing where it needs to not where it’s more mainstream to do so. I’d love to know more about the First Civ.The first 4 to 5 games were evolving and after that it was just “lets throw in some location and event as well as some characters that everybody knows and lets put a hood on one of them and call it an AC game”.

IWGCJoeCool
04-27-2014, 10:45 PM
Ok, I know this wasn’t mentioned in any of the games or books, at least not clearly, but I keep wondering if a civilization that is millennia ahead of us in evolution that got far enough to creating humans/helping them evolve from pre-existing species, create artifacts that control them and are physically superior enough to have 6 senses instead of five and seeing through the possibilities of the future, has even thought about exploring nearby or distant planets for the sake of knowledge or even terraformed whole or parts of some planets that can help them survive the solar flare.

It could be such a great point to bring up in future games. Maybe the First Civ. has managed to stay alive somewhere else and they might come back someday.

Discuss!

ya know, that's a really good question. as fantastic as some of the AC ficton/science fiction is it is still pretty well rooted in the possible. I could see a temple or artifact on the Moon or Mars, but interstellar travel and settlement is a whole other realm of things to come...to the point of it even being possible. even the better fiction using it, provide it as a given, without much trying to explain it. (except for maybe Mr. Scott's Guide To The Enterprise)

AdamPearce
04-28-2014, 03:26 AM
Oh my God that would so LAME ! C'mon guys we've seen this a million times.

I really think TWCB have to get more importance, but simply not this way. They represent something, they aren't juste here to serve the 'plot'. Assassin's Creed is all about symbolics and messages, ACI is the perfect example of that with is mysterious yet really powerful ending. This all about ideologies, not Aliens/ Gods/ Promethean ruling Earth or whatever, that's just lame and pointless, keep that for the next Prometheus.

Corey May created those characters for a reason, just like the Assassins and the Templar are here for a reason too. We must go beyond the evidence and stop thinking about what would be cool or awesome or epic, but instead, what would be meaningfull to see, to say, to think. Assassin's Creed has a huge potential of making a change to many of us trought his stories, messages and various philosophies, let's use this at our advantage.

Layytez
04-28-2014, 04:05 AM
These people could manipulate time. I'm pretty sure space travel was a piece of cake. I wonder if there a space craft full of POE's orbiting around...

itsamea-mario
04-28-2014, 06:59 AM
Well we know they could at least reach the moon, but it's pretty likely they couldn't get themselves further than that, i.e. long distance space travel to other habitable planets, else they would have.
They probably had the potential to make that technology, just never did.

Hans684
04-28-2014, 04:08 PM
Yeah, I know about the AOE that was sent to the Moon and the idea of directing it’s beam to affect all citizens. The thing is, non of the solutions talked about just leaving.

I know, but that wasn't my point. They obviously had some form of space ship(s(armed or unarmed we don't know)) since they sent one AOE to the Moon. If their space ship(s) could travel to the Moon in just seconds compared to us that takes years it might be possible. We also have take to consideration that they need a planet livable as Earth, their travel speed(seconds or years), if there is enough power, is the livable planet in a galaxy far far away or close enough? All critical points needing awnser to know if they could.


Maybe a Space ship that floats somewhere near Mars with enough resources to live another 50 years or even 100 until the effect of the solar flare is gone.

We are talking about a solar flare, I highly doubt Mars would be livable and far enough away for them to survive and live in a couple of 100 years.


Perhaps some were rich and powerful enough to leave. I think it would be really interesting.

Possible but if that is the case, why didn't Jupiter and Minerva leave. They seem like the VIP's out of the First Civ. I'd didn't mention Juno becouse she would properly continue her plan either way, it would just be a lot more easy without them. But is interesting.


Maybe they did travel and they did return and that can be justified with the conspiracies that suggest seeing flying objects in the sky..etc.

Maybe some did and the First Civ. isn't exactly direct so the conspiracies you mentioned fits their usual aprotch.

Jon253
04-28-2014, 05:41 PM
I always thought an intresting storyline would be if the templars find the remains of Noah's Ark. Just think, a huge vessel with two of every animal, the Assassin's Creed writters could make it out to be a colony starship. Perhaps many of these ships were built and they left Earth, and colonized another planet.

DumbGamerTag94
04-28-2014, 08:12 PM
Well, it's certainly possible.

I know that the "Summer of Love" lead in AC4 was a joke, but it really was a tumultuous time- add to that some of the early shuttle launches and maybe a First Civ temple on the moon, and you might actually have a really interesting game!
So we've come to this. ASSASSINS IN SPAAAAAACCCCEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! :p:cool::rolleyes:

GunnerGalactico
04-28-2014, 08:33 PM
I was always under the impression that POE's would allow the First Civ to somehow look into the universe- not really travel there.

RinoTheBouncer
04-30-2014, 09:07 PM
I know, but that wasn't my point. They obviously had some form of space ship(s(armed or unarmed we don't know)) since they sent one AOE to the Moon. If their space ship(s) could travel to the Moon in just seconds compared to us that takes years it might be possible. We also have take to consideration that they need a planet livable as Earth, their travel speed(seconds or years), if there is enough power, is the livable planet in a galaxy far far away or close enough? All critical points needing awnser to know if they could.



We are talking about a solar flare, I highly doubt Mars would be livable and far enough away for them to survive and live in a couple of 100 years.



Possible but if that is the case, why didn't Jupiter and Minerva leave. They seem like the VIP's out of the First Civ. I'd didn't mention Juno becouse she would properly continue her plan either way, it would just be a lot more easy without them. But is interesting.



Maybe some did and the First Civ. isn't exactly direct so the conspiracies you mentioned fits their usual aprotch.

I agree with your points and I don’t claim to have a full plan of what they could’ve done but just saying that there’s great chance that the people who could look into the future are likely aware of a fuel that gets them to fly long enough to reach a habitable planet. I mean one thing we know for sure is that they can live much longer than we do “for centuries Tinea and I walked the Earth, hoping to rekindle the spark of civilization” so for Centuries after Toba, they walked the Earth. I wonder how long they lived before that, a century? a millennia? two? three? ten?

If they have a long life span and they found some sort of energy source/fuel to run their ships long enough to reach another planet or at least settle in some spaceship somewhere where the solar flare cannot affect them, then I don’t see what stops any of them.

You have a point about Minerva and Jupiter not leaving. I mean they were the VIPs or the leaders, but I wonder if they really died on Earth or they left after they shared what they know with humans. “We shared what we knew as best we could and then we left”... so “left” could mean “died” or literally left.

I’m also curious to know if First Civ. members believed in some sort of deity or had religions in their time or not. But that’s a whole new topic.

lothario-da-be
04-30-2014, 09:14 PM
I personaly hope they don't put any space travel things in the games, they can't even handle earth alone. But its something interesting to think about, they were so advenced that they almost surely mastered space travel.

lothario-da-be
04-30-2014, 09:17 PM
And Rihno, I don't think TWCB followed any religion. I think they are too advenced for that. I am not ofending any relegion now, but Religion comes from questions. The more we know the less we need some god. The more a country is modernised the less people are religious, so imo it wouldn't fit TWCB to have a religion.

RinoTheBouncer
04-30-2014, 09:17 PM
I personaly hope they don't put any space travel things in the games, they can't even handle earth alone. But its something interesting to think about, they were so advenced that they almost surely mastered space travel.

I don’t hope for a game that takes place on a space ship but I’d be happy to know that some of them have left Earth to some place else and they could come back or do come back at some point.

lothario-da-be
04-30-2014, 09:22 PM
I don’t hope for a game that takes place on a space ship but I’d be happy to know that some of them have left Earth to some place else and they could come back or do come back at some point.
Of course no games on space ships lol.
But they should keep the ac canon on earth. They can't even create a cohesive universe on earth. So they shouldn't leave it. AC has already enough plotholes, unadressed topics. Space will only complicate it.

RinoTheBouncer
04-30-2014, 09:25 PM
Of course no games on space ships lol.
But they should keep the ac canon on earth. They can't even create a cohesive universe on earth. So they shouldn't leave it. AC has already enough plotholes, unadressed topics. Space will only complicate it.

You’re right about the stories on Earth themselves are messed up and full of potholes in AC universe. I just hope the stories do become more cohesive with or without space mentions. I’ve been utterly disappointed by the fact that AC is aiming to be more about short self-contained stories, free of cliffhangers and real identifiable modern day characters

Like, to me, modern day was the best part and they’ve ruined it. Also, the cliffhangers were fit with the annual releases cause it felt like a T.V. series but now that they’re trying to make modern day stories less connected, it’s kinda defeating the purpose of annual releases.

GunnerGalactico
04-30-2014, 09:27 PM
Of course no games on space ships lol.
But they should keep the ac canon on earth. They can't even create a cohesive universe on earth. So they shouldn't leave it. AC has already enough plotholes, unadressed topics. Space will only complicate it.

Good point.

lothario-da-be
04-30-2014, 09:33 PM
You’re right about the stories on Earth themselves are messed up and full of potholes in AC universe. I just hope the stories do become more cohesive with or without space mentions. I’ve been utterly disappointed by the fact that AC is aiming to be more about short self-contained stories, free of cliffhangers and real identifiable modern day characters

Like, to me, modern day was the best part and they’ve ruined it. Also, the cliffhangers were fit with the annual releases cause it felt like a T.V. series but now that they’re trying to make modern day stories less connected, it’s kinda defeating the purpose of annual releases.
Maybe they are simplifying things too impress us in 2 years :p
* wishfull thinking*

RinoTheBouncer
04-30-2014, 09:35 PM
Maybe they are simplifying things too impress us in 2 years :p
* wishfull thinking*

I want nothing more than for you to be right and for me to be wrong with this wishful thinking, trust me :P

lothario-da-be
04-30-2014, 09:38 PM
I want nothing more than for you to be right and for me to be wrong with this wishful thinking, trust me :P
ah at least we are getting Paris this year, I went to Paris previous week and I must say, it will blow ac4 and ac3 away.

RinoTheBouncer
04-30-2014, 10:20 PM
ah at least we are getting Paris this year, I went to Paris previous week and I must say, it will blow ac4 and ac3 away.
I went to Paris last year, June 2013. It was really amazing and I wish they’d chosen a period in the late 1800s to make sure the Eiffel Tower is there. It may not be much but it’s such a wasted opportunity to synch an awesome viewpoints. Fingers crossed for a modern day protagonist who performs a leap of faith from the top of the Eiffel tower where some Templar is hiding n Eiffel’s secret apartment ;)

But either way, Paris is a beautiful city and it’s vast and sophisticated so if they could capture all that in next-gen, CGI-like graphics along with some great story like those of AC1,2,B and AC:R, they’d blow AC3 and AC4 together, as you said.

Hans684
05-01-2014, 12:46 PM
I agree with your points and I don’t claim to have a full plan of what they could’ve done but just saying that there’s great chance that the people who could look into the future are likely aware of a fuel that gets them to fly long enough to reach a habitable planet.

Thank you, it's understandeble to not have a full plan. We know so little about what the First Civ. did or could have did outside Earth.


I mean one thing we know for sure is that they can live much longer than we do “for centuries Tinea and I walked the Earth, hoping to rekindle the spark of civilization” so for Centuries after Toba, they walked the Earth. I wonder how long they lived before that, a century? a millennia? two? three? ten?

I don't know. It is a point hasn't been touched that much.


If they have a long life span and they found some sort of energy source/fuel to run their ships long enough to reach another planet or at least settle in some spaceship somewhere where the solar flare cannot affect them, then I don’t see what stops any of them.

The Power I speak of is the Energy that is used in the their artifacts/temples. They already have their fuel but do they have enough? That's the question. If they didn't have enough it wouldn't matter. If they(or a few) did, why didn't they leave?


You have a point about Minerva and Jupiter not leaving. I mean they were the VIPs or the leaders, but I wonder if they really died on Earth or they left after they shared what they know with humans. “We shared what we knew as best we could and then we left”... so “left” could mean “died” or literally left.

That's hard to say, especially since they isn't that direct with their messages. It could mean anything.


I’m also curious to know if First Civ. members believed in some sort of deity or had religions in their time or not. But that’s a whole new topic.

Remember that the First Civ. sometimes say. "What has been shall be again", "fact becoming fiction, myth turned to legend" and all that. The only possible way -that I see- they could have any form of religion is if something similar happened in their time. That there is something ancient they don't know that much about themselves. Other than that, I would say no.

RinoTheBouncer
05-01-2014, 04:18 PM
Thank you, it's understandeble to not have a full plan. We know so little about what the First Civ. did or could have did outside Earth.

You’re welcome. I just hope the upcoming games will keep shedding light on them because to me, they’re an essential part of the game. I love the study of conspiracies, the unknown and the supernatural and AC1 to AC3 games did provide that for me.


I don't know. It is a point hasn't been touched that much.

I know, yeah. So far, it’s just unknown but we can be sure that they’ve lived much longer from that thing Minvera said.


The Power I speak of is the Energy that is used in the their artifacts/temples. They already have their fuel but do they have enough? That's the question. If they didn't have enough it wouldn't matter. If they(or a few) did, why didn't they leave?

I think it is enough. I mean for a nation that plans to create towers that will shield an entire planet from a solar flare, I think that requires much higher energy than that which require one to travel in space. I wonder if they even attempted or bothered with wormholes... that’s what I love about the First Civ. they keep me intrigued and wondering.


That's hard to say, especially since they isn't that direct with their messages. It could mean anything.

My thoughts exactly.


Remember that the First Civ. sometimes say. "What has been shall be again", "fact becoming fiction, myth turned to legend" and all that. The only possible way -that I see- they could have any form of religion is if something similar happened in their time. That there is something ancient they don't know that much about themselves. Other than that, I would say no.

Good point. But I wonder that since they’re the “First” Civilization, then there probably hasn’t been any preceding civilization to take inspiration from like humans did from them. Maybe what Juno meant by "what has been” is what happened with their image to the people when they turned to from a scientifically evolved society to deities.

It interests me so much to know about how they view the creation of the universe. I mean it’s an unknown topic in AC universe like it is in reality. We know there’s a big bang theory and other similar theories that explain the creation of the universe but we don’t know for sure if there’s a maker, whether it’s one person or a group and if that one person is the same one we read about in religions or not. So I wonder if they had a belief that there’s a maker or if there’s life someplace else in the universe. We’re way behind them in evolution and we’re searching for alien life, for answers about creation vs. evolution, and for the truth, in general. I wonder how far they got ahead of us.

Hans684
05-01-2014, 06:54 PM
You’re welcome. I just hope the upcoming games will keep shedding light on them because to me, they’re an essential part of the game. I love the study of conspiracies, the unknown and the supernatural and AC1 to AC3 games did provide that for me.

Agree but for me it's still here(Black Flag). It's always been, it's just touched differently each time.


I know, yeah. So far, it’s just unknown but we can be sure that they’ve lived much longer from that thing Minvera said.

We just need to have a little faith.


I think it is enough. I mean for a nation that plans to create towers that will shield an entire planet from a solar flare, I think that requires much higher energy than that which require one to travel in space.

It might be enough but they would never be finished with the 4 towers, so the project was abandoned and the first tower was never finished. Maybe you're right.


I wonder if they even attempted or bothered with wormholes... that’s what I love about the First Civ. they keep me intrigued and wondering.

Possible since they are way more advanced then us. It just twisted enough to fit the First Civ. I'm sure they would prefer wormholes over traveling all the way in ships.


My thoughts exactly.

Great minds think alike.


Good point. But I wonder that since they’re the “First” Civilization, then there probably hasn’t been any preceding civilization to take inspiration from like humans did from them. Maybe what Juno meant by "what has been” is what happened with their image to the people when they turned to from a scientifically evolved society to deities.

They can take advantage of how old earth is, unless they have. And judging by AC3 there is a cycle that is repeating itself(solar flare) and it has happened twice in AC canon. First in the time of the First Civ. And Second time in 2012. How many times before that has it happened? How long does each cycle last? Did it destroy any evidens of Past Civs.(in AC)? She said it when Minerva showed Desmond what would happen if he didn't stop the solar flare and ended it with "what has been shall be again". Sounds like another solar flare and a repeat of everything before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth#Name_and_etymology

Earth, also known as "the Earth" and "the World", is the third planet from the Sun and the densest planet in the Solar System. It is also the largest of the Solar System's four terrestrial planets. It is sometimes referred to as the "Blue Planet", the "Blue Marble", Terra or "Gaia".

According to evidence from sources such as radiometric dating, Earth was formed around four and a half billion years ago. Within its first billion years, life appeared in its oceans and began to affect its atmosphere and surface, promoting the proliferation of aerobic as well as anaerobic organisms and causing the formation of the atmosphere's ozone layer. As this layer and Earth's magnetic field block the most life-threatening components of the Sun's radiation, life was then able to flourish on land as well as in water. Since then, Earth's position in the Solar System, its physical properties and its geological history have allowed life to persist.


It interests me so much to know about how they view the creation of the universe. I mean it’s an unknown topic in AC universe like it is in reality.

It's a great topic for AC.


We know there’s a big bang theory and other similar theories that explain the creation of the universe but we don’t know for sure if there’s a maker, whether it’s one person or a group and if that one person is the same one we read about in religions or not.

That is something AC can play with, a civilization/person wiser and more powerful created the universe or just nature going it's work.


So I wonder if they had a belief that there’s a maker or if there’s life someplace else in the universe. We’re way behind them in evolution and we’re searching for alien life, for answers about creation vs. evolution, and for the truth, in general. I wonder how far they got ahead of us.

They could have but we don't know.

RinoTheBouncer
05-04-2014, 09:36 AM
Possible since they are way more advanced then us. It just twisted enough to fit the First Civ. I'm sure they would prefer wormholes over traveling all the way in ships.

Wormholes would be great. I assume a civilization than spanned the Earth certain has some way-too-intelligent individuals who could’ve created a portal of some sort and travelled some place else with it. I don’t know, but there has been a lot of conspiracy theories regarding unexplained disappearances and mutilations, so I assume in the AC universe, those could be other First Civ. devices, maybe for teleportation within Earth, out of Earth, who knows...


Great minds think alike.

Fist Bump ;)

[/QUOTE]They can take advantage of how old earth is, unless they have. And judging by AC3 there is a cycle that is repeating itself(solar flare) and it has happened twice in AC canon. First in the time of the First Civ. And Second time in 2012. How many times before that has it happened? How long does each cycle last? Did it destroy any evidens of Past Civs.(in AC)? She said it when Minerva showed Desmond what would happen if he didn't stop the solar flare and ended it with "what has been shall be again". Sounds like another solar flare and a repeat of everything before.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you. I have always thought about this whether in AC or real life. I mean how many catastrophe’s on a global scales have occurred from ice ages to Meteor strikes to earthquakes, eruptions, continental drifts throughout the life of the planet Earth? countless... I guess any civilization could’ve existed any time or even came from some place else and then they either left or perished when this planet was in a state that either cannot accommodate life or temporarily unsuitable. So the First Civ. may as well not be the very first one. Perhaps they “simply came before”.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth#Name_and_etymology

Earth, also known as "the Earth" and "the World", is the third planet from the Sun and the densest planet in the Solar System. It is also the largest of the Solar System's four terrestrial planets. It is sometimes referred to as the "Blue Planet", the "Blue Marble", Terra or "Gaia".

According to evidence from sources such as radiometric dating, Earth was formed around four and a half billion years ago. Within its first billion years, life appeared in its oceans and began to affect its atmosphere and surface, promoting the proliferation of aerobic as well as anaerobic organisms and causing the formation of the atmosphere's ozone layer. As this layer and Earth's magnetic field block the most life-threatening components of the Sun's radiation, life was then able to flourish on land as well as in water. Since then, Earth's position in the Solar System, its physical properties and its geological history have allowed life to persist.

It intrigues me to know more about The Gaia theory, which speaks about the interaction of organic beings interacting with in-organic ones to create a balance and some expand this theory to believe that the Earth has a soul, called the Gaia. This soul makes the Earth a living body that lives in a symbiotic relationships with it’s inhabitants and all the atmosphere changes and geological events happen as a response to something, like we respond to infections.

It’s an off-topic subject but it intrigues me, cause it’s impossible to compare the way we define life and soul with the way other beings do and if Earth is something like that, then it’s definitely gonna be completely different from us.


That is something AC can play with, a civilization/person wiser and more powerful created the universe or just nature going it's work.

Yeah. I just hope the developers are daring enough to further touch such topics. I mean for a moment in AC1, they literally said that religions were all fraud and named The Bible a book of lies and being a “best seller”. I’m a religious person, my self but I’m not offended by how a work of art depicts religion, especially when it’s talking about a half true, half fictional story. I respected the developers because they had the balls to provoke the public with such sensitive matters. I wonder if they’re gonna do that again.

I don’t want them to bash religion on daily basis, but I’m saying they can further tamper with the topics of creation, evolution, gods and first civ. topics in a way that makes you think and discuss, rather than just a straightforward story of good guys and bad guys.

Hans684
05-12-2014, 05:36 PM
Wormholes would be great. I assume a civilization than spanned the Earth certain has some way-too-intelligent individuals who could’ve created a portal of some sort and travelled some place else with it. I don’t know, but there has been a lot of conspiracy theories regarding unexplained disappearances and mutilations, so I assume in the AC universe, those could be other First Civ. devices, maybe for teleportation within Earth, out of Earth, who knows...

They could be the ones who work with Juno to get the First Civ. back in control or just some escaped First Civ. members, both opening doors for future games. Out of every future possibility the First Civ. tried their civilization always ended in ruins, so it makes since for some of them to leave, only to return when the time is right.


Fist Bump ;)

First Bump ;)


I totally agree with you. I have always thought about this whether in AC or real life. I mean how many catastrophe’s on a global scales have occurred from ice ages to Meteor strikes to earthquakes, eruptions, continental drifts throughout the life of the planet Earth? countless... I guess any civilization could’ve existed any time or even came from some place else and then they either left or perished when this planet was in a state that either cannot accommodate life or temporarily unsuitable. So the First Civ. may as well not be the very first one. Perhaps they “simply came before”.

I've always had interest in stuff far beyond myself. That there is something unknown waiting discovery. I'm atheist but still question science and religion etc...more or less equally.


It intrigues me to know more about The Gaia theory, which speaks about the interaction of organic beings interacting with in-organic ones to create a balance and some expand this theory to believe that the Earth has a soul, called the Gaia. This soul makes the Earth a living body that lives in a symbiotic relationships with it’s inhabitants and all the atmosphere changes and geological events happen as a response to something, like we respond to infections.

That sounds a lot like The Force from Star Wars, maybe we can have something similar in AC called Eagle(Gaia) Force? It would make stealth more...I don't know refined, stratigic. Heard of the Darth Maul game that was cancelled? Originally it was meant to be a fast stealth game. Use The Force to lure that guy/alien, kill it silently, fast and move on to the objective. Unique right? Well AC can rake advantage of this to.


It’s an off-topic subject but it intrigues me, cause it’s impossible to compare the way we define life and soul with the way other beings do and if Earth is something like that, then it’s definitely gonna be completely different from us.

Your thread, your rules as long as it doesn't destroy the thread or get the attention of the admins. We can't get a proper conclusion anyway since animals can't talk.


Yeah. I just hope the developers are daring enough to further touch such topics. I mean for a moment in AC1, they literally said that religions were all fraud and named The Bible a book of lies and being a “best seller”. I’m a religious person, my self but I’m not offended by how a work of art depicts religion, especially when it’s talking about a half true, half fictional story. I respected the developers because they had the balls to provoke the public with such sensitive matters. I wonder if they’re gonna do that again.

It's a work of art, if every game "dares" to bash religion etc..., then all of them would be the same art. It would be "milking" and making the series less "special", something that would lead people to say the series "has lost its core". The Bible isn't my kind of book but I'm not raging a war agains it like a lot people do, sure people believe in something. Everyone does religious or not, there is always something.


I don’t want them to bash religion on daily basis, but I’m saying they can further tamper with the topics of creation, evolution, gods and first civ. topics in a way that makes you think and discuss, rather than just a straightforward story of good guys and bad guys.

But the series still do that, we are thinking and discussing it now and we passed the black/white story that began in AC2 and ended at ACB. Those are the most straightforward black/whithe story games in the entire series, except maybe WW2 when Hitler was a Templar puppet.

RinoTheBouncer
05-12-2014, 06:03 PM
They could be the ones who work with Juno to get the First Civ. back in control or just some escaped First Civ. members, both opening doors for future games. Out of every future possibility the First Civ. tried their civilization always ended in ruins, so it makes since for some of them to leave, only to return when the time is right.

Yeah, that’s what I imagine to be the most likely. I mean there should’ve been other rich and powerful First Civ. members, perhaps those who wanted to defy even death, so whether they’re in space or in deep bunkers beneath the Earth with their endless life support, I wouldn’t be so surprised, and it would make a great revelation.


I've always had interest in stuff far beyond myself. That there is something unknown waiting discovery. I'm atheist but still question science and religion etc...more or less equally.

I’m a Muslim but science is a pivotal element of life, even in my religion, the first thing we learn is to encourage one another to learn so I always question things, I always wonder. And I’m sure there’s a lot that we don’t know about. I mean for example, the human eye can only see a portion of light that we call “Visible Light” or “The Visible Spectrum” and same goes for hearing, so I believe it’s the same with knowledge. The window that we observe the world from, the means of observation and the laws and science we have, it’s only a portion based on what we’ve learned so far in a matter of centuries or decades on one planet. I’m sure there’s trillions of things that are unknown to us and we cannot prove but cannot deny, either.


That sounds a lot like The Force from Star Wars, maybe we can have something similar in AC called Eagle(Gaia) Force? It would make stealth more...I don't know refined, stratigic. Heard of the Darth Maul game that was cancelled? Originally it was meant to be a fast stealth game. Use The Force to lure that guy/alien, kill it silently, fast and move on to the objective. Unique right? Well AC can rake advantage of this to.

It would be interesting, but I wonder how as an Assassin we’d be able to use it? If you mean a sense, something similar to Connor’s abilities in ToKW, it would be cool, as long as it doesn’t turn become something that doesn’t fit the genre of the game.


It's a work of art, if every game "dares" to bash religion etc..., then all of them would be the same art. It would be "milking" and making the series less "special", something that would lead people to say the series "has lost its core". The Bible isn't my kind of book but I'm not raging a war agains it like a lot people do, sure people believe in something. Everyone does religious or not, there is always something.

Of course, I wouldn’t want to see them repeat themselves, bashing and dissing religion in every game, but I’m saying that the can take other daring steps, and more controversial subjects to tamper with.


But the series still do that, we are thinking and discussing it now and we passed the black/white story that began in AC2 and ended at ACB. Those are the most straightforward black/whithe story games in the entire series, except maybe WW2 when Hitler was a Templar puppet.

Come to think of it, a game about Hitler would be phenomenal if done right.

Hans684
05-12-2014, 07:40 PM
Yeah, that’s what I imagine to be the most likely. I mean there should’ve been other rich and powerful First Civ. members, perhaps those who wanted to defy even death, so whether they’re in space or in deep bunkers beneath the Earth with their endless life support, I wouldn’t be so surprised, and it would make a great revelation.

And it makes sense, the First Civ. isn't stupid either. They used The Eye to see the future and if their civilization could be saved. It could not because they would end up in ruins no matter how they tried to stop it, but going underground or in to space could save some of them. The ones who would rather hide or escape. And consider the special metal and power they have it's highly possible and that plot twist.


I’m a Muslim but science is a pivotal element of life, even in my religion, the first thing we learn is to encourage one another to learn so I always question things, I always wonder. And I’m sure there’s a lot that we don’t know about. I mean for example, the human eye can only see a portion of light that we call “Visible Light” or “The Visible Spectrum” and same goes for hearing, so I believe it’s the same with knowledge. The window that we observe the world from, the means of observation and the laws and science we have, it’s only a portion based on what we’ve learned so far in a matter of centuries or decades on one planet. I’m sure there’s trillions of things that are unknown to us and we cannot prove but cannot deny, either.

That's how it should be, no need for pointless battles. Knowing both sides(religion and science in this case) helps understanding a lot. "The more we learn about the world, the less we seem to know.", one of my favorite quotes and it's true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life_of_knowledge <--- An interesting read, it's worth it while being relevant to the discussion. And it had nothing to do with Half Life 3. Isn't EV related to this "Visible Light/The Visible Spectrum"? Sounds like it in a way. The window is often ignored, like in politics or with people that abuse power. Doubt it would change in my lifetime, sad actually. Never get to witness the big moment if it ever happen.


It would be interesting, but I wonder how as an Assassin we’d be able to use it? If you mean a sense, something similar to Connor’s abilities in ToKW, it would be cool, as long as it doesn’t turn become something that doesn’t fit the genre of the game.

I actually meant that it could be an invisible power like The Force(SW), TF sound a lot like The Gaia Theory. A hidden force that thought the entire universe.


Of course, I wouldn’t want to see them repeat themselves, bashing and dissing religion in every game, but I’m saying that the can take other daring steps, and more controversial subjects to tamper with.

My mistake, I didn't only mean religion.


Come to think of it, a game about Hitler would be phenomenal if done right.

Got any ideas worth sharing? Or pass?

RinoTheBouncer
05-13-2014, 08:39 AM
And it makes sense, the First Civ. isn't stupid either. They used The Eye to see the future and if their civilization could be saved. It could not because they would end up in ruins no matter how they tried to stop it, but going underground or in to space could save some of them. The ones who would rather hide or escape. And consider the special metal and power they have it's highly possible and that plot twist.

Yeah, I mean the idea of them in a bunker could be more possible than the space one but I can’t discredit their ability to go into space since their a a lot more high-tech and evolved than we are. And indeed, it would make a great twist, either way whether they’re coming from space or from anywhere. Another possible twist and it sounds a bit too outrageous, the First Civ. could be humans from the year 10,000 or even much farther in the future where evolution would’ve given them the Knowledge sense or something and things could’ve gotta crazy in their time that they’d rather change history than live life the way it was, so they travelled back in time to 200,000 BC to try and make a difference, helping the evolution of mankind and perhaps changing the way they think and behave, but it all turned into another egg-and-chicken paradox.

It’s a crazy theory, I know, but what if something like that actually happened in real life? the Sumerians and their rumored alien technology could be native rather than alien. But I don’t know, maybe I’m just thinking too much, haha.


That's how it should be, no need for pointless battles. Knowing both sides(religion and science in this case) helps understanding a lot. "The more we learn about the world, the less we seem to know.", one of my favorite quotes and it's true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life_of_knowledge <--- An interesting read, it's worth it while being relevant to the discussion. And it had nothing to do with Half Life 3. Isn't EV related to this "Visible Light/The Visible Spectrum"? Sounds like it in a way. The window is often ignored, like in politics or with people that abuse power. Doubt it would change in my lifetime, sad actually. Never get to witness the big moment if it ever happen.

Interesting article, thanks for sharing. Yes, we should definitely have some sort of acceptance and make peace with the different groups of our race. Science, Religion and Spirituality in general, all help understanding the world better. And it’s really sad that we might not see such a world in our lifetime. If you ever played Mass Effect and specifically the third installment of it, the world really makes wish I had lived there. People are living in peace, in some sort of a utopia, despite the danger of course, but there’s some sort of acceptance to others’ sexuality and beliefs that isn’t present in our time. I’d do anything to live in a world like that. A world where one’s contribution to the world and their behaviors matter more than what they worship and whom they choose to love.


I actually meant that it could be an invisible power like The Force(SW), TF sound a lot like The Gaia Theory. A hidden force that thought the entire universe.

Interesting. It could actually open the door to thinking about who even created it and if there’s a first civ. of the universe or something like that.


Got any ideas worth sharing? Or pass?

I really don’t have any specific topics in mind but in Hitler’s time, there was a lot agony, injustice and pain, not to mention wars with a higher tech than usual and the era had it’s share of conspiracy theories in addition to being a great stage for Templars and Assassins. We could have a holocaust survivor, someone on Hitler’s team or a bisexual prisoner, one of those who where labeled with the pink triangle and used for experimentation. They can pull a move like that of ToKW and actually show the story taking Hitler’s side, like how they made George Washington be a bad guy.

It could be such a controversial subject, but I’m all in for it. Other than that, I’ll be happy with any character in that period. A man or a woman trying to make a difference and perhaps he/she could on a large or small scale. I believe Germany is an inevitable future location and this could be one heck of a game and era and come to think of it, Abstergo just started to bloom that period so we can start from 1940 for example up until the Cold War. It make a great setting and it has a lot to do with everything, from conspiracies about Hitler using alien technology to Templars to Abstergo, to all the agony and pain. I think it deserves a shot, especially that they’re doing annual titles and no more historical sequels for the same Assassin, so it wouldn’t hurt anybody.

Hans684
05-13-2014, 09:16 PM
Yeah, I mean the idea of them in a bunker could be more possible than the space one but I can’t discredit their ability to go into space since their a a lot more high-tech and evolved than we are. And indeed, it would make a great twist, either way whether they’re coming from space or from anywhere. Another possible twist and it sounds a bit too outrageous, the First Civ. could be humans from the year 10,000 or even much farther in the future where evolution would’ve given them the Knowledge sense or something and things could’ve gotta crazy in their time that they’d rather change history than live life the way it was, so they travelled back in time to 200,000 BC to try and make a difference, helping the evolution of mankind and perhaps changing the way they think and behave, but it all turned into another egg-and-chicken paradox.

It’s a crazy theory, I know, but what if something like that actually happened in real life? the Sumerians and their rumored alien technology could be native rather than alien. But I don’t know, maybe I’m just thinking too much, haha.

Indeed and it would require less power, the top layer of earth would take most of the damage while keeping them isolated. Or it killed them and they become crisps. Space can work but we know to little.The outrageous theory of your can be one of the many Calculations, it's a great twist but Ubisoft has set in stone that they are from earth. Still they do have everything to their advantage in term of concepts to use. It can work but since people consider the current story a "mess" your theory would just add more fuel to the fire. It can be saved for future use. Read your tread about the Sumerians, it's interesting. Judging by AC it most likely was some of the surviving First Civ. member who was involved with the Sumerians.


Interesting article, thanks for sharing. Yes, we should definitely have some sort of acceptance and make peace with the different groups of our race. Science, Religion and Spirituality in general, all help understanding the world better. And it’s really sad that we might not see such a world in our lifetime. If you ever played Mass Effect and specifically the third installment of it, the world really makes wish I had lived there. People are living in peace, in some sort of a utopia, despite the danger of course, but there’s some sort of acceptance to others’ sexuality and beliefs that isn’t present in our time. I’d do anything to live in a world like that. A world where one’s contribution to the world and their behaviors matter more than what they worship and whom they choose to love.

The Creed from AC help with that, sure it's a game but it's -IMO- the purest form of a religion I have seen. It's a guide, it doesn't punish people for being human/"different". I havn't played Mass Effect, it's not my kind of future games. I prefer Star Wars, sadly it is being toured by Disney. Anyway, the world of ME sounds breath taking.


Interesting. It could actually open the door to thinking about who even created it and if there’s a first civ. of the universe or something like that.

Again something with potential. Since the First Civ. most likely don't have a religion it could be The First Civ. leader/king/ruler that is that force or The First Civ. Leader/king/ruler controlling the force.


I really don’t have any specific topics in mind but in Hitler’s time, there was a lot agony, injustice and pain, not to mention wars with a higher tech than usual and the era had it’s share of conspiracy theories in addition to being a great stage for Templars and Assassins. We could have a holocaust survivor, someone on Hitler’s team or a bisexual prisoner, one of those who where labeled with the pink triangle and used for experimentation. They can pull a move like that of ToKW and actually show the story taking Hitler’s side, like how they made George Washington be a bad guy. It could be such a controversial subject, but I’m all in for it. Other than that, I’ll be happy with any character in that period. A man or a woman trying to make a difference and perhaps he/she could on a large or small scale. I believe Germany is an inevitable future location and this could be one heck of a game and era and come to think of it, Abstergo just started to bloom that period so we can start from 1940 for example up until the Cold War. It make a great setting and it has a lot to do with everything, from conspiracies about Hitler using alien technology to Templars to Abstergo, to all the agony and pain. I think it deserves a shot, especially that they’re doing annual titles and no more historical sequels for the same Assassin, so it wouldn’t hurt anybody

In term of gameplay it is interesting for me but story wise it might end up as a "Templars the Tyrants" game with black/white story. I prefer a gray story, it gives depth. I want to question what I do, who I'm controlling and who I'm hunting. It would still be a different WW game than most, how many WW games has an never ending war between Assassins and Templars?
If it is controversial people will talk about it, a good thing actually.

RinoTheBouncer
05-14-2014, 09:17 AM
Indeed and it would require less power, the top layer of earth would take most of the damage while keeping them isolated. Or it killed them and they become crisps. Space can work but we know to little.The outrageous theory of your can be one of the many Calculations, it's a great twist but Ubisoft has set in stone that they are from earth. Still they do have everything to their advantage in term of concepts to use. It can work but since people consider the current story a "mess" your theory would just add more fuel to the fire. It can be saved for future use. Read your tread about the Sumerians, it's interesting. Judging by AC it most likely was some of the surviving First Civ. member who was involved with the Sumerians.

Yeah, I agree that many call the current story a mess and that introducing more to that would even worsen things. But perhaps in the right time, in the future. I like the idea of calculations and possibilities because we can’t even be sure if the story we’re leading now is even the real thing. The idea which many call a plot hole which wonders why Minerva would take all the trouble of contacting Desmond if she CAN see the possibilities and she can tell what he’ll end up choosing in the end, which she doesn’t want? so perhaps all this is just another possibility that the First Civ. are viewing and I’d love it. I’d totally embrace it because it can be a great twist and a great way to change things instead of just rebooting. It’s like rebooting without discrediting all past games.


The Creed from AC help with that, sure it's a game but it's -IMO- the purest form of a religion I have seen. It's a guide, it doesn't punish people for being human/"different". I havn't played Mass Effect, it's not my kind of future games. I prefer Star Wars, sadly it is being toured by Disney. Anyway, the world of ME sounds breath taking.

Yeah, the world of ME is wonderful in terms of looks, people, evolution, ideas and societies.


Again something with potential. Since the First Civ. most likely don't have a religion it could be The First Civ. leader/king/ruler that is that force or The First Civ. Leader/king/ruler controlling the force.

Yeah. I still wish we could get a game in the First Civ. times to understand more about who they are. I like how they kept the mystery going but I wanna know more about them than just an unknown race that came before and created and enslaved humans. I’m sure there are a lot more interesting stories their vast civilization has to tell.


In term of gameplay it is interesting for me but story wise it might end up as a "Templars the Tyrants" game with black/white story. I prefer a gray story, it gives depth. I want to question what I do, who I'm controlling and who I'm hunting. It would still be a different WW game than most, how many WW games has an never ending war between Assassins and Templars?
If it is controversial people will talk about it, a good thing actually.

I’d love a gray story. I love stories that make you wonder if the Assassins are actually right or not. To be a realistic assassin among the crowd, wondering what’s right and what’s wrong and not just sticking to a set of laws. But I want a controversial game and as you said, there aren’t many games about that period, let along dealing with Assassins and Templars. We can be one of Hitler’s allies and at the same time, an undercover agent and we can see the story from both angles so it wouldn’t feel so black and white.

Hans684
05-14-2014, 05:55 PM
Yeah, I agree that many call the current story a mess and that introducing more to that would even worsen things. But perhaps in the right time, in the future. I like the idea of calculations and possibilities because we can’t even be sure if the story we’re leading now is even the real thing. The idea which many call a plot hole which wonders why Minerva would take all the trouble of contacting Desmond if she CAN see the possibilities and she can tell what he’ll end up choosing in the end, which she doesn’t want? so perhaps all this is just another possibility that the First Civ. are viewing and I’d love it. I’d totally embrace it because it can be a great twist and a great way to change things instead of just rebooting. It’s like rebooting without discrediting all past games.

It would -like I have heard- end up like the MGS story, even the creator(or CEO) or something said himself he can't keep track of the story anymore. It's better to wait, when most plot points(and holes) are taken care off. It is the real thing, even Ubisoft the selves exist in the AC universe, they made AC [3]: Liberation [HD] and AC4BF with Abstergo Entertainment. It might not be the calculation consider there is the other comic series where Desmond is alive. We know to little to even call it a plot hole, is there a guarenty the calculations shown by The Eye is 100% unchangeble? Are they even changeable? Is there even a guaranty? Are they 100% accurate? As said, we know to little. If the games so far had ended with Minerva "exiting" a calculation and that it could happen, it would make them pointless since they didn't happen, it was just another calculation. I'm totally agains a reboot, it would trow everything away simply becouse they needed a new start. Sure it would discredit but it would make everything we have pointless.


Yeah, the world of ME is wonderful in terms of looks, people, evolution, ideas and societies.

Might look it up.


Yeah. I still wish we could get a game in the First Civ. times to understand more about who they are. I like how they kept the mystery going but I wanna know more about them than just an unknown race that came before and created and enslaved humans. I’m sure there are a lot more interesting stories their vast civilization has to tell.

I all for it but it does a one hudge disadvantage, it would take away most(if not all) the mystery.


I’d love a gray story. I love stories that make you wonder if the Assassins are actually right or not. To be a realistic assassin among the crowd, wondering what’s right and what’s wrong and not just sticking to a set of laws. But I want a controversial game and as you said, there aren’t many games about that period, let along dealing with Assassins and Templars. We can be one of Hitler’s allies and at the same time, an undercover agent and we can see the story from both angles so it wouldn’t feel so black and white.

I wonder all the time, the games that I would side with the Templars is Black Flag, 3 maybe Liberation(wondering) and maybe Revelations(wondering) before that I'm assassin all the way. Isn't WW(1 and 2) considered mainstream? But they are mostly shooters anyway, so an AC in a mainstream setting wouldn't matter.

RinoTheBouncer
05-18-2014, 09:16 AM
It would -like I have heard- end up like the MGS story, even the creator(or CEO) or something said himself he can't keep track of the story anymore. It's better to wait, when most plot points(and holes) are taken care off. It is the real thing, even Ubisoft the selves exist in the AC universe, they made AC [3]: Liberation [HD] and AC4BF with Abstergo Entertainment. It might not be the calculation consider there is the other comic series where Desmond is alive. We know to little to even call it a plot hole, is there a guarenty the calculations shown by The Eye is 100% unchangeble? Are they even changeable? Is there even a guaranty? Are they 100% accurate? As said, we know to little. If the games so far had ended with Minerva "exiting" a calculation and that it could happen, it would make them pointless since they didn't happen, it was just another calculation. I'm totally agains a reboot, it would trow everything away simply becouse they needed a new start. Sure it would discredit but it would make everything we have pointless.

I agree that such a twist would divide the fan base more than anything and it’s gonna be a love-it or hate-it kinda twist. I’m like you, against a reboot 100% because all the work we’ve done wouldn’t just be irrelevant or for nothing or forgotten, but it would be erased and considered to never have happened. The possibilities idea could be a smart way to reboot without actually rebooting but it would still be risky. I’m still interested in it, though.

Btw, I completely agree with you about MGS. The game offers way too much information that I doubt any writer/developer can follow through and not even fans can keep up or even care. In every major moment, there’s a cutscene in game graphics > CODEC call > flashback > CODEC Call > cutscene as a photo slideshow/collage> CODEC call> cutscene in game graphics> gameplay. So I guess it’s too much to follow through whether it’s about writing it, continuing it in another game or even paying attention to it as a gamer.


I all for it but it does a one hudge disadvantage, it would take away most(if not all) the mystery.

I agree. I remember how intriguing, shocking, surprising and interesting the moment was when we heard Vidic say “they’re gifts from those who came before” and when Minvera said “The rest is up to you, Desmond” compared to everything else that came afterwards. There was so much mystery and it was interesting enough to keep us wanting more. So I do agree that uncovering mysteries can be a double-sided weapon because people tend to create a lot of theories and any official explanation will be less than what people expected or way too farfetched to be believed.

However, I’d still be interested in living in that world whether as a human or a first civ. member.


I wonder all the time, the games that I would side with the Templars is Black Flag, 3 maybe Liberation(wondering) and maybe Revelations(wondering) before that I'm assassin all the way. Isn't WW(1 and 2) considered mainstream? But they are mostly shooters anyway, so an AC in a mainstream setting wouldn't matter.

I’d side with Haytham in ACIII. He really had intellect and he had ideas. He wasn’t just a killing machine or some power-hungry bastard. The man knew what he was talking about. His gang, however, were more of the typical villain kinda people, like Hickey and Charles Lee. I don’t know whom to side with, actually but I felt like ACIII and AC:R raised a lot of questions like “who’s right?” and “who the bad guys really are?”. AC:Liberation kinda of done that in the very end but I just didn’t find enslaving people as something justifiable, regardless of the aims and goals.

WWII is mainstream, yes. But I think if they execute the game well and make the WWII setting more of a backdrop than the core of the story and make the core something revolving around the Assassins and Templars, like AC1 did, then I’m all for it.

Hans684
05-18-2014, 04:26 PM
I agree that such a twist would divide the fan base more than anything and it’s gonna be a love-it or hate-it kinda twist. I’m like you, against a reboot 100% because all the work we’ve done wouldn’t just be irrelevant or for nothing or forgotten, but it would be erased and considered to never have happened. The possibilities idea could be a smart way to reboot without actually rebooting but it would still be risky. I’m still interested in it, though.

I don't mind other calculations as long as we at least stick to one as the main story.


Btw, I completely agree with you about MGS. The game offers way too much information that I doubt any writer/developer can follow through and not even fans can keep up or even care. In every major moment, there’s a cutscene in game graphics > CODEC call > flashback > CODEC Call > cutscene as a photo slideshow/collage> CODEC call> cutscene in game graphics> gameplay. So I guess it’s too much to follow through whether it’s about writing it, continuing it in another game or even paying attention to it as a gamer.

And I'm sure everyone don't want AC to end up like that. Unless they only care for the gameplay and not the story.


I agree. I remember how intriguing, shocking, surprising and interesting the moment was when we heard Vidic say “they’re gifts from those who came before” and when Minvera said “The rest is up to you, Desmond” compared to everything else that came afterwards. There was so much mystery and it was interesting enough to keep us wanting more. So I do agree that uncovering mysteries can be a double-sided weapon because people tend to create a lot of theories and any official explanation will be less than what people expected or way too farfetched to be believed.

Started the series with AC2, so my most shocking moment was end of AC with what Minerva said. Then I played AC(1) and understood even more but the game wasn't as shocking and the ending of ACB. That's why I never understood when people say; "AC has lost it's mysteries". When we don't actually know that much and of course the people saying such are those who has been disappointed, human nature and predicteble.


However, I’d still be interested in living in that world whether as a human or a first civ. member.

If you choose human you will be enslaved, I'd choose to become a First Civ. member.


I’d side with Haytham in ACIII. He really had intellect and he had ideas. He wasn’t just a killing machine or some power-hungry bastard. The man knew what he was talking about. His gang, however, were more of the typical villain kinda people, like Hickey and Charles Lee. I don’t know whom to side with, actually but I felt like ACIII and AC:R raised a lot of questions like “who’s right?” and “who the bad guys really are?”. AC:Liberation kinda of done that in the very end but I just didn’t find enslaving people as something justifiable, regardless of the aims and goals.

Seems then that we are at an impasse.

I agree a lot with Haytham. I have mixed feelings about the rest. I don't mind Hickey, he has a underground network or something(not as bad as killing) and only did it for the money. I'd send Charles Lee to Connor at Christmas when he starts to change to the bad person when we played as Connor. I know more or less who to side with but I'm not with either side 100% because then are not the same all over the world, there is good Templars like Torres and Haytham and bad like the Borgia Family. There is bad Assassins like Al Mualim and Aveline's mentor and good ones like Ezio and Altaïr. In Liberation Aveline asked a civilian at the Mayan ruins if she liked it there and they did, what did she do after that? Murder and mayhem. The fact that the civilians liked it there is why I'm wondering if I'd support those Templars. They didn't enslave any of them, if they did they would say they don't like it there. Sure there where some bad Templars(as always) but the assassins are not better. Give a criminal a Creed involving freedom and ask is it still a criminal? Or a savior?


WWII is mainstream, yes. But I think if they execute the game well and make the WWII setting more of a backdrop than the core of the story and make the core something revolving around the Assassins and Templars, like AC1 did, then I’m all for it.

Didn't you say that you don't want AC to choose mainstream setting for X bad reasons? "Exceptions break the rule" - Sherlock Holmes

RinoTheBouncer
05-22-2014, 09:45 AM
If you choose human you will be enslaved, I'd choose to become a First Civ. member.

I don’t mind it either way. We can be Eve or Adam. I’d love to be a First CIv. member and experience the ‘Knowledge’ sense in full. Not to mention see how other members live, their houses, their relationships..etc. Even for a spin-off.


Seems then that we are at an impasse.

I agree a lot with Haytham. I have mixed feelings about the rest. I don't mind Hickey, he has a underground network or something(not as bad as killing) and only did it for the money. I'd send Charles Lee to Connor at Christmas when he starts to change to the bad person when we played as Connor. I know more or less who to side with but I'm not with either side 100% because then are not the same all over the world, there is good Templars like Torres and Haytham and bad like the Borgia Family. There is bad Assassins like Al Mualim and Aveline's mentor and good ones like Ezio and Altaïr. In Liberation Aveline asked a civilian at the Mayan ruins if she liked it there and they did, what did she do after that? Murder and mayhem. The fact that the civilians liked it there is why I'm wondering if I'd support those Templars. They didn't enslave any of them, if they did they would say they don't like it there. Sure there where some bad Templars(as always) but the assassins are not better. Give a criminal a Creed involving freedom and ask is it still a criminal? Or a savior?

I honestly loved how Haytham thinks but not the others. I agree that there are bad Assassins and Templars and good ones. I wanna see a good Templar. I mean, I wanna see one who really feels like a good person but the twist is that he’s a Templar and the Assassins just can’t kill him cause he’s not a bad person. Perhaps this could be the point of Unity or perhaps another installment the shows a point of understanding between those sides. Maybe we can go to something a bit cliche in movies, but a love story between an Assassin and a Templar or friendship.

We’ve seen Altair and Maria. We’ve seen Haytham and Connor, but those did not live with each other. Maybe at some point, we can see a story of two people actually spending a long time together only to discover the dark side of each other than neither knew about the other. It could be a really personal story about the Assassin, it can fit the co-op idea that’s being hinted and it can still be a great Assassin/Templar story.

Didn't you say that you don't want AC to choose mainstream setting for X bad reasons? "Exceptions break the rule" - Sherlock Holmes[/QUOTE]

I don’t wanna be a hypocrite,but I think Hitler’s story is really good, so if the WWII setting is treated like AC1 did with it’s crusaders thing, putting it as a background while the whole focus is on the Assassins and the Templars and perhaps the origins of Abstergo, it would be really great.

My biggest problem with mainstream settings was that the game focused completely on the famous events and randomly called some people Assassins and others Templars and it felt like they took the backseat. So if the can manage to execute the game in a such a way that despite giving you the opportunity of historical tourism and exploration of an era, the story will be heavily focused on the Assassins and the Templars, then exception can break the rule.

Hans684
05-23-2014, 06:59 PM
I don’t mind it either way. We can be Eve or Adam. I’d love to be a First CIv. member and experience the ‘Knowledge’ sense in full. Not to mention see how other members live, their houses, their relationships..etc. Even for a spin-off.

If I had to be a human in that time I would be neither, I'll be myself.


I honestly loved how Haytham thinks but not the others. I agree that there are bad Assassins and Templars and good ones. I wanna see a good Templar. I mean, I wanna see one who really feels like a good person but the twist is that he’s a Templar and the Assassins just can’t kill him cause he’s not a bad person. Perhaps this could be the point of Unity or perhaps another installment the shows a point of understanding between those sides. Maybe we can go to something a bit cliche in movies, but a love story between an Assassin and a Templar or friendship.

We’ve seen Altair and Maria. We’ve seen Haytham and Connor, but those did not live with each other. Maybe at some point, we can see a story of two people actually spending a long time together only to discover the dark side of each other than neither knew about the other. It could be a really personal story about the Assassin, it can fit the co-op idea that’s being hinted and it can still be a great Assassin/Templar story.

That's actually a great idea but consider we had Torres who actually was a good person and Templar ended up killed in the end. Well, the chance of something like that to happen is slim. As for the love story idea, not that interesting. And incorrect Altaïr and Maria lived together.


I don’t wanna be a hypocrite,but I think Hitler’s story is really good, so if the WWII setting is treated like AC1 did with it’s crusaders thing, putting it as a background while the whole focus is on the Assassins and the Templars and perhaps the origins of Abstergo, it would be really great.

My biggest problem with mainstream settings was that the game focused completely on the famous events and randomly called some people Assassins and others Templars and it felt like they took the backseat. So if the can manage to execute the game in a such a way that despite giving you the opportunity of historical tourism and exploration of an era, the story will be heavily focused on the Assassins and the Templars, then exception can break the rule.

Well, that's why I pointed it out. It's a flaw, a contradiction and that is why it will break the rule no matter what. An exception will always be an exception no matter the justification, it breaks the rule of the person it involves. Example; If I say "I don't want an AC with guns." Then sometime later I say "I'd love an MD AC." I would have broken my own rule when making the exception, reasons are irrelevant.

We don't know The Focus the Devs. have when making the games, there is no way to confirm that unless you work at Ubisoft. All AC's use history the same way, it will drive the stories even in AC1. As for the titles, off course it feels like it. Both the Templars and Assassins -in real life- where dead long before AC2 and onwards. Famous people/events is part of the exploration of the era giving the player historical tourism while being focusing in the A vs. T war as always. Assassins where sent on assassination missions during the Third Crusade(and before and after), so technically every assassination and investigation is [unofficial] historical events. AC2, ACB and ACR is just as identical as AC3 and Black Flag in term of history. People say Blackbeard needed more screen time while saying that his death was shoehorned. They contradict themselves. More screen time for X famous person(that in turn add historical events) = shoehorned, To little screen time for X famous person(that takes away historical events) = underdeveloped.

RinoTheBouncer
05-24-2014, 11:46 AM
If I had to be a human in that time I would be neither, I'll be myself.



That's actually a great idea but consider we had Torres who actually was a good person and Templar ended up killed in the end. Well, the chance of something like that to happen is slim. As for the love story idea, not that interesting. And incorrect Altaïr and Maria lived together.



[QUOTE]Well, that's why I pointed it out. It's a flaw, a contradiction and that is why it will break the rule no matter what. An exception will always be an exception no matter the justification, it breaks the rule of the person it involves. Example; If I say "I don't want an AC with guns." Then sometime later I say "I'd love an MD AC." I would have broken my own rule when making the exception, reasons are irrelevant.

I believe it’s only natural to have some holes in one’s rule when the reasons are good enough. Why would someone be stuck to one rule against all odds even if there’s something better outside that boundaries of that rule?


We don't know The Focus the Devs. have when making the games, there is no way to confirm that unless you work at Ubisoft. All AC's use history the same way, it will drive the stories even in AC1. As for the titles, off course it feels like it. Both the Templars and Assassins -in real life- where dead long before AC2 and onwards. Famous people/events is part of the exploration of the era giving the player historical tourism while being focusing in the A vs. T war as always. Assassins where sent on assassination missions during the Third Crusade(and before and after), so technically every assassination and investigation is [unofficial] historical events. AC2, ACB and ACR is just as identical as AC3 and Black Flag in term of history. People say Blackbeard needed more screen time while saying that his death was shoehorned. They contradict themselves. More screen time for X famous person(that in turn add historical events) = shoehorned, To little screen time for X famous person(that takes away historical events) = underdeveloped.

I believe it happens with music and films too. People tend to cling a lot to the early releases of something and tend to keep comparing the new entries to the past ones. The past ones are always more shocking to the majority because they’re something they haven’t seen before while the latter releases are usually not as gripping as the first ones even if they follow the same pattern because people have gotten used to it. Just like horror movies, for example. I can’t really find a scary horror film these days because I can tell the whole story in all it’s variations just by reading the synopsis or watching the first scene.

Same goes for music. I’m a huge Madonna fan and I notice a lot of people only talk about Vogue, Like A Prayer, Like A Virgin, Express Yourself and Holiday as if they’re the best and only songs she had while for example, Ray of Light album (along with the singles), Hung Up and 4 Minutes where bigger hits. Not to mention how Ray Of Light and Confessions on a Dancefloor sold more than Like A Prayer album or True Blue did in a shorter period of time. Yet people are still stuck on the past. Her last two tours grossed more than any other solo artist’s tour, including her own, yet people cling to Blond Ambition Tour from 1989. However, I personally love everything Madonna made from 1998 to present day much more than anything before that.

The same is happening with AC games. The new games are successful financially and critically and they’re not bad games and they did a lot of things as good as the classics yet people can rarely be shocked twice by the same product. However, I will say that the fans who prefer AC1, AC2, AC:B and AC:R aren’t being so protective and appreciative of these games because they’re dating their producer or they’re family with the developers but because they simply enjoyed these games and felt their originality and impact.

Perhaps the same happened to other Madonna fans who loved her since the 80s and that genre of music appealed to them more than it appealed to me. While the current one appeals to me more because of it’s sound, message, lyrics and nostalgia to who I was when I listened to these songs first.

Hans684
05-24-2014, 06:24 PM
I believe it’s only natural to have some holes in one’s rule when the reasons are good enough. Why would someone be stuck to one rule against all odds even if there’s something better outside that boundaries of that rule?

It is natural, humans isn't flawless. I'm not stuck at all, I know my place and it's still outside the boundaries. If I hadn't my view on things would not be like they are. And we have discussed both our views on things on this thread and Alternate Possibilities thread.


I believe it happens with music and films too. People tend to cling a lot to the early releases of something and tend to keep comparing the new entries to the past ones. The past ones are always more shocking to the majority because they’re something they haven’t seen before while the latter releases are usually not as gripping as the first ones even if they follow the same pattern because people have gotten used to it. Just like horror movies, for example. I can’t really find a scary horror film these days because I can tell the whole story in all it’s variations just by reading the synopsis or watching the first scene.

Same goes for music. I’m a huge Madonna fan and I notice a lot of people only talk about Vogue, Like A Prayer, Like A Virgin, Express Yourself and Holiday as if they’re the best and only songs she had while for example, Ray of Light album (along with the singles), Hung Up and 4 Minutes where bigger hits. Not to mention how Ray Of Light and Confessions on a Dancefloor sold more than Like A Prayer album or True Blue did in a shorter period of time. Yet people are still stuck on the past. Her last two tours grossed more than any other solo artist’s tour, including her own, yet people cling to Blond Ambition Tour from 1989. However, I personally love everything Madonna made from 1998 to present day much more than anything before that.

The same is happening with AC games. The new games are successful financially and critically and they’re not bad games and they did a lot of things as good as the classics yet people can rarely be shocked twice by the same product. However, I will say that the fans who prefer AC1, AC2, AC:B and AC:R aren’t being so protective and appreciative of these games because they’re dating their producer or they’re family with the developers but because they simply enjoyed these games and felt their originality and impact.

Perhaps the same happened to other Madonna fans who loved her since the 80s and that genre of music appealed to them more than it appealed to me. While the current one appeals to me more because of it’s sound, message, lyrics and nostalgia to who I was when I listened to these songs first.

Just like above, things like that is human nature. It do happen to AC. While where on music, heard of Miracle Of Sound? A recommend musician, funny enough I though first time it was just going to be a music made big a random nobody(don't consider anyone a nobody, just the best words to get the point across). And I was as wrong as I could be, now I'm listening to all of MOS's songs and I love them more than any song made by well know musicians like Madonna.