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Reibelo
04-23-2014, 01:53 AM
I don't really wanna get too lost in this so I'm going to put it as simple as I can.

Can all of you fellow gamers please join me in finding a freaking way to put an end to these stupidly OP Necro decks in STD?

Right about now, there are:
Life draining, hero healing, immune to retalion vampires
Boneyard (which is ridiculously amazing because you can revive as much as 4 crits every turn at 0 cost)
Cheaper Banshees with endless combinations (with Atropos, portals, Ariana's fortune, broken bridge, that new HoN equip spell that makes a creature return to your hand after it's destroyed)
Completely OP dark spells like soulreaver and death seal that easily clean even Spell Resist creatures
Heroes that cheaply either:
- kill low level creatures
- increase incorporeal's HP
- destroy bases in counters (sorry about that, Stronghold)
- revive the damn vampires and the nightmare starts over

It has come to a point where, if I'm lucky or skilled enough to last over 15 turns against it, my opponents, by more than once, play their Banshee's up to 10+ times in a single match and it has become unbearable.


My thoughts:

I have tried to come up with a solution myself, as a Haven-friendly guy to counter them with Crusader Chaplain, week of the nethermancer and Shi-No-Shi but it's still a lucky-draw dependent system and I can't see any other useful cards now that Ward against darkness and purity were cut down. Plus, retaliation decks are useless because all the damn vampires are imune to retaliation and have life drain.

Sanctuary seems kind of viable but when encountering Fleshbane, his incorporeals just take the best of most crits. Academy seems to work some of the times but even with magic resist, they still get clobbered with the Banshee and all the spells I referenced.

Wrath of the skies seems to be a good solution for the vampires but it's so pricy and other than Academy decks, no other faction can afford to go 5 magic easily.

And with the economic changes, it's hard, even after about half a year of playing, to get enough cards to build decent decks from scratch.

BEFORE YOU START HATING AND TROLLING:
Beware that I have Necro decks and this is not one of those one-faction-hate-adressed posts. I just truly think that the changes in bs2 and hon really hurt the game's diversity and we're seeing a rather quick turn in preferences and nearly 80% of the encounterings I have are with Necro, which makes this game more boring by the day. Maybe if we found a way to counter it, the players would slowly experiment other decks and the game would become more balanced and fun for everyone.


Sorry for the long post!

franconbean
04-23-2014, 03:08 AM
I sort of agree with you. Necro is the king of grindy midrange decks at the moment; the best way to beat them seems to be with OTK or immolation/mass rage control type things (which aren't everyone's cup of tea).

While most people like to complain about Banshee, I am of the opinion that Boneyard is the best card in the deck. Since only earth (and prime if you want to spend 6 resources on it) heroes have the ability to take out buildings, rise of the nethermancer is pretty much compulsory for any deck that doesn't work off the GY, which seems a little warped to me.

In regards to the banshee, I think a reasonable response would be to make it unique, but slightly more efficiently costed. That way it's still a powerful card, and you can run bards if you want to for consistency, but you will only be able to use it once (broken bridge non-withstanding). That would make for a more fair necro and not a "Screw all your creatures, 8 soulreaver hurr durr" necro. Make no mistake, I have played the deck and I LOVE some of the tricks you can do with week of the dead, seria's last order and banshee. I just get that it isn't much fun to be on the recieving end of.

Reibelo
04-23-2014, 03:42 AM
Yeah, but even if you play imolation and mass rage, most of mid-long duration matches in Necro decks all end up with the board filled with crits immune to retaliation and life drain and with the new vampires, destroying a creature makes them recover their whole HP. It still doesn't cut it that well...

franconbean
04-23-2014, 03:55 AM
On second thoughts, Necro does have enough hard removal to clear the board and remove immolation.

Stavino
04-23-2014, 05:06 PM
In regards to the banshee, I think a reasonable response would be to make it unique, but slightly more efficiently costed.

Please explain how having hundreds of players realize they wasted 7-21 WC to purchase Banshees 2-4 would be "reasonable".

Reibelo
04-23-2014, 06:38 PM
Please explain how having hundreds of players realize they wasted 7-21 WC to purchase Banshees 2-4 would be "reasonable".

Wanna talk about all the cards rendered useless in BS2? I spent 30+ WC on Wolf Captains and look at them now.

Revalon
04-23-2014, 07:32 PM
Wanna talk about all the cards rendered useless in BS2? I spent 30+ WC on Wolf Captains and look at them now.

You can play all your Wolf Captains as much as before (except for max. one out of three days where there is no Open tournament).

Stavino
04-23-2014, 09:45 PM
Wanna talk about all the cards rendered useless in BS2? I spent 30+ WC on Wolf Captains and look at them now.

are you seriously comparing

" I was aware the cards I was going to buy would be mostly useless once BS2 came out, yet I bought them anyway (and btw, they now cost 4 times as before)"

to

" I bought the cards I need to be competitive in the new standard, but due to an unforeseen nerf i'm olny allowed to play 1/4 of them and I have no way whatsoever to dispose of the extra copies or get a refund"

?

sir_z
04-24-2014, 01:21 AM
1. If you have so many awful things to say about standard, juts play open. The open scene is pretty great right now, lots of diversity now with the Kelthor ban. Also, you get to just crush most necro decks with haven and feel your revenge.

2. if you want to beat Necro, you need to kill them before they're set up. You're right that non-necro control is pretty weak in standard right now. Also, Haven is generally pretty UP in standard.

Reibelo
04-24-2014, 01:26 AM
I've been trying out a Sanctuary deck with Yukiko and it's actually been pretty decent. I found the board control I needed to minimize the amount of creature and spell combos in STD Necro decks :)

Jarema03
04-24-2014, 02:30 PM
I like to play inferno vs necro games. I have winning rate of about 70% in such setups

Isochron_Wizard
04-24-2014, 02:31 PM
Let's come back to the topic of this thread guys

When BS2 came out I focused on the campaigns. Once that was done I began to think about all the possibilities and then took a look online. That's how I saw that people were beginning to complain about necro. That's why, as a former kelthor player, I decided that I wouldn't go down the mainstream road again. Here are my thoughts, for what they're worth. Having played only a dozen games since bs2 is out I wouldn't venture into telling you if that's a good or a bad idea, see for yourself.

First of all, I think that there's a lot of unexploited potential in academy creatures. And while every single deck I see on mmdocking runs obsidian gargoyles I find this spell resist ability useless with all the instant removals around, I prefer to replace them with guardian golems, that i move around to avoid any combat damage, they can become a real pain in the buttocks for necro, as a single removal will not take out one of the creatures you actually care about so that leaves you about turn 5 to 8 to take a sufficient advantage from wich your opponent won't come back. As for the hero, I thought about asalah with the 2 spells that make your creatures untargettable but that's a bit too requiring in terms of resources and cards to play, plus they're useless in a lot of other matchups. So I'm trying out Hakeem, who can use the same hateful dark magic plus the earth counter to buildings. I'm still balancing my deck but from what I've seen, I think it has a fair chance to become one of the top decks, once I learn to play it and the good way to mulligan with it.