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datensystem
04-14-2014, 08:29 PM
Attention: For those who didn't watch Assassin's Creed Embers, watch it first before reading any of these comments!

Link to Assassin's Creed Embers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AccnFxdznE



Well, then. What do you think how did Ezio die? Did he get poisoned or did he die by an heart attack?

I think he got poisoned and died. / but also i think he died by an heart attack, because he was coughing everytime.

What do you think?

Jexx21
04-14-2014, 08:35 PM
I think he died of that lung disease that some vineyard workers can get.

datensystem
04-14-2014, 08:43 PM
I think he died of that lung disease that some vineyard workers can get.

Yeah, that could be it but i don't know why but i have the feeling that he died by a poison.

GunnerGalactico
04-14-2014, 08:46 PM
According to Wikipedia, he died of a heart attack. It does seem strange though...

lothario-da-be
04-14-2014, 09:09 PM
If there is 1 thing we can agree on its that the other man didn't kill him.

Templar_Az
04-14-2014, 09:17 PM
Check this out; it shows Ezio being poisoned:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k25aZrjtYls

I personally think he was Assassinated. Much cooler ending than dying a natural death imo.

Jexx21
04-14-2014, 09:18 PM
I think it was completely natural.

oliacr
04-14-2014, 09:23 PM
I think it was completely natural.

Agreed. I really liked Embers, shame it was only 20minutes long.

GunnerGalactico
04-14-2014, 09:25 PM
I personally think he was Assassinated. Much cooler ending than dying a natural death imo.

Very curious... I did hear the clicking sound... so yeah, it could be possible. Just maybe.

lothario-da-be
04-14-2014, 09:29 PM
Check this out; it shows Ezio being poisoned:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k25aZrjtYls

I personally think he was Assassinated. Much cooler ending than dying a natural death imo.
Still not convinced.

I-Like-Pie45
04-14-2014, 09:32 PM
A wizard did it.

MasterAssasin84
04-15-2014, 12:01 AM
Attention: For those who didn't watch Assassin's Creed Embers, watch it first before reading any of these comments!

Link to Assassin's Creed Embers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AccnFxdznE



Well, then. What do you think how did Ezio die? Did he get poisoned or did he die by an heart attack?

I think he got poisoned and died. / but also i think he died by an heart attack.

What do you think?


Ezio Died of a fatal chest infection ... no other explanation and nothing to suggest otherwise .

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 01:15 AM
Ezio died naturally. He was coughing all way through the film. He had a chest infection and it was agonizing him throughout the film.

NO ONE came for Ezio in over a decade (if someone tried to assassinate him before, his physical condition would be in much better shape) WHY would a Templar come for him now?? he has no strategic value...that guy MIGHT have been a Templar but he did not kill Ezio. get over it and stop watching conspiracy videos...

frodrigues55
04-15-2014, 01:26 AM
It's deliberately ambiguous, it's meant to create theories and it's far from that black and white. There is nothing wrong with people who speculate over that scene.

They wouldn't put that random stranger there if they wanted to make clear Ezio died of natural causes. Darby's own response regarding that scene is that


"What you see is what you get. The important thing about that scene is that Ezio died with dignity, having accomplished almost everything he wanted in life. Precicely HOW he died is not important. And leaving it open to interpretation provides a way for fans to speculate and dream... games are particularly notorious for hitting people over the head with their themes and morals... I loathe that. I want dreaming and ambiguity to be a priority."

I, for one, think there's more into it. The way that guys looks at Ezio implies there's something else going on.

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 01:30 AM
It's deliberately ambiguous, it's meant to create theories and it's far from that black and white. There is nothing wrong with people who speculate over that scene.

They wouldn't put that random stranger there if they wanted to make clear Ezio died of natural causes. Darby's own response regarding that scene is that

"What you see is what you get. The important thing about that scene is that Ezio died with dignity, having accomplished almost everything he wanted in life. Precicely HOW he died is not important. And leaving it open to interpretation provides a way for fans to speculate and dream... games are particularly notorious for hitting people over the head with their themes and morals... I loathe that. I want dreaming and ambiguity to be a priority."

I, for one, think there's more into it. The way that guys looks at Ezio implies there's something else going on.
There's nothing to support that Ezio was killed..

frodrigues55
04-15-2014, 01:33 AM
There's nothing to support that Ezio was killed..

It really depends on how you see that guy's appearance in the end... if you think he did nothing but talk (or maybe never even existed), then probably yes, there's nothing to support that. If you think he actually had a hidden poison somewhere, that's all the support you need.

The reason he is there is to make people confused, so there's that at least. He did have a really strange look on his face.

xboxauditore
04-15-2014, 01:40 AM
I think it was the whole coughing thing throughout the movie, it was a natural death, not poison.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I just remembered this scene and now i'm gonna go cry in a corner.

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 01:41 AM
if you think he actually had a hidden poison somewhere, that's all the support you need.
No, that's not support. that's claims without facts....what's to prove that Ezio was poisoned?

frodrigues55
04-15-2014, 01:47 AM
No, that's not support. that's claims without facts....what's to prove that Ezio was poisoned?

Movies in general use a bunch of different techniques to create amibiguous scenes, and Embers' ending just screams that.

The fact that it was created to be ambiguous means there's nothing to prove. Ezio was sick, but is there proof that the sickness is what killed him? And how convenient that he dies when a complete stranger acted very, very suspiscious towards him? It's open to interpretation, you can't just say other people are wrong, lol.

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 01:51 AM
you can't just say other people are wrong, lol.
Yes I can.

My interpretation: Ezio died naturally

Support:
1-He was coughing and clutching his heart throughout the movie.
2-His physical status has greatly declined due to inactivity, that means that the Chinese skirmish at the villa was the first time Ezio had some action in a long time, which also means that no one tried coming for HIM or his family.
3-There's no strategic value in assassinating Ezio.

Show me support of Ezio being murdered...

frodrigues55
04-15-2014, 01:53 AM
Why, lol? It's not gonna make any difference other than having you saying "no that's not support", so why bother.

It's like making a poll asking which one is everyone's favorite Assassin, Ezio or Connor. You already know the results.

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 02:01 AM
Why, lol? It's not gonna make any difference other than having you saying "no that's not support", so why bother.

It's like making a poll asking which one is everyone's favorite Assassin, Ezio or Connor. You already know the results.
No, that's different. Speculation is supposed to create debate, discussion and argument. you want people to speculate about Ezio's death...that's fine but then there'll be discussion and argument with both sides presenting their cases and the support for their cases. I'm saying everybody who said Ezio was murdered is wrong...I have started an argument and shown my support for my claim. If someone wants to say Ezio was poisoned as rebuttal to my claim, that's great...do so AND present support for it. that's what speculation is.

If there's a result I know, it's that the side taking Ezio being murdered have no case at all and just want everybody to kill everybody and can't accept the fact that a hero can die naturally.

Jexx21
04-15-2014, 02:02 AM
Connor died by slipping in the bathtub and hitting his head on a rock.

That's a natural death.

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 02:04 AM
Connor died by slipping in the bathtub and hitting his head on a rock.

That's a natural death.
Death is natural..

frodrigues55
04-15-2014, 02:13 AM
If there's a result I know, it's that the side taking Ezio being murdered have no case at all and just want everybody to kill everybody and can't accept the fact that a hero can die naturally.

See, this is the type of attitude that just doesn't make me want to get into an argument. You present your cases in a very aggressive manner and I really don't think it's the healthy type of discussion. It might be just me, so that's why I'm not moving on with it.

My point was - if the writter said the scene is deliberatly ambiguous, than there's more to each side. You have taken yours, but that doesn't make it true. A bunch of people presented reasons here on why they think it was murder and I didn't see you discussing it. I saw you replying "get over it and stop watching conspiracy videos...". So really, there's nothing more to debate.

I-Like-Pie45
04-15-2014, 02:14 AM
Death is natural..

what about the time my mommy meow was run over by neighbor's car

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 02:27 AM
See, this is the type of attitude that just doesn't make me want to get into an argument. You present your cases in a very aggressive manner and I really don't think it's the healthy type of discussion. It might be just me, so that's why I'm not moving on with it.
How was it aggressive? You don't know my tone of voice..


So really, there's nothing more to debate.
Indeed. me being correct is nothing to debate..

Also, off-topic...someone commented "Ezio sucks" and everyone jumped on them lol...shows how idiotic some Ezio fanboys can be...

Jexx21
04-15-2014, 02:27 AM
Death is natural..
That's natural children.

Happy Appy Appy!

xboxauditore
04-15-2014, 02:29 AM
That's natural children.

Happy Appy Appy!

God, Happy Appy freaks me out so much lol

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 02:35 AM
Let me address that Conspiracy video.

Point 1: "Suspicious hand holding" That man obviously knows who Ezio was, he may or may not be a Templar.
Point 2: "Blade click sound" I don't hear anything. i only hear foot steps and ambient sounds from the city.
Point 3: "Gauntlet" There was no blade carrier underneath the man's gauntlet.
Point 4: "look of pain on Ezio's face" Ezio looked in pain throughout the movie too. he looked in pain just 10 seconds before that scene where the man gets up so I don't see why THAT look of pain means anything.

here, I addressed it..

JustPlainQuirky
04-15-2014, 02:47 AM
Shots fired.

Jexx21
04-15-2014, 03:02 AM
God, Happy Appy freaks me out so much lol
thank god someone understood my reference.

I just read that creepypasta a couple days ago.

LoyalACFan
04-15-2014, 03:45 AM
Ezio died naturally. He was coughing all way through the film. He had a chest infection and it was agonizing him throughout the film.

NO ONE came for Ezio in over a decade (if someone tried to assassinate him before, his physical condition would be in much better shape) WHY would a Templar come for him now?? he has no strategic value...that guy MIGHT have been a Templar but he did not kill Ezio. get over it and stop watching conspiracy videos...

Agreed with everything, and I'll also add that he died literally like ten seconds after the guy touched his hand. Not even video game poison works that fast.

I-Like-Pie45
04-15-2014, 04:52 AM
People, people

Its magic so they don't have to explain it

Hans684
04-15-2014, 08:21 AM
Yes I can.

My interpretation: Ezio died naturally

Support:
1-He was coughing and clutching his heart throughout the movie.
2-His physical status has greatly declined due to inactivity, that means that the Chinese skirmish at the villa was the first time Ezio had some action in a long time, which also means that no one tried coming for HIM or his family.
3-There's no strategic value in assassinating Ezio.

Show me support of Ezio being murdered...

You also forgot the letter he was writhing.

MasterAssasin84
04-15-2014, 09:26 AM
Can some Elaborate on the compelling evidence that Ezio was murdered ? totally unfounded, Embers was written purely to close the last chapter of his life, he died of a fatal chest infection thats it.

@Hans64 yea the letter Ezio was writing IMO was reflection of his life inner thoughts and his journey as to were had arrived in Embers .

Hans684
04-15-2014, 10:00 AM
@Hans64 yea the letter Ezio was writing IMO was reflection of his life inner thoughts and his journey as to were had arrived in Embers .

"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it. And I had love, but I did not feel it. Many decades would pass before I understood the meaning of all three. And now, the twilight of my life, this understanding has passed into contentment.

Love, liberty, and time: once so disposable, are the fuels that drive me forward. And love, most especially, mio caro. For you, our children, our brothers and sisters. And for the vast and wonderful world that gave us life, and keeps us guessing. Endless affection, mia Sofia.

Forever yours,
Ezio Auditore."

Looks more like he knew he didn't have long to live.

frodrigues55
04-15-2014, 11:45 AM
Well, Ezio was indeed sick and all signs pointed to his natural death, I agree. In fact, the story pointed to that outcome from the start - up until that man showed up in the end.

It's clear to me his part on Embers was to raise doubt, to make us wonder that "Ezio was dying, but was that what really killed him?". The way they wrote that man - the way he touched Ezio's hand, the way he looked at Ezio, the way he told him to rest, the way Ezio reacted to him, even the camera angles - all point out to something else going on. "But how? Poison isn't that fast and there's no way he could have done it". I agree, it's odd. But he wasn't there for nothing. That's how ambiguous scenes work, you can't exactly point what happened, but there's doubt that something else happened and that things are not that black and white.

I personally never really made a decision myself. Recently, after Darby said Embers doesn't have an answer to how Ezio died - I held on to that thought stronger. I know Ezio died, but I can't say exactly how.

Templar_Az
04-15-2014, 12:21 PM
I would also like to add:

It is still possible for a man who is slowly dying to be murdered.
Just because someone is really old or has a disease it doesnt mean he is guaranteed to die from that disease; he could get hit by a car or murdered or die in thousands of other ways.

datensystem
04-15-2014, 12:52 PM
Ezio died naturally. He was coughing all way through the film. He had a chest infection and it was agonizing him throughout the film.

NO ONE came for Ezio in over a decade (if someone tried to assassinate him before, his physical condition would be in much better shape) WHY would a Templar come for him now?? he has no strategic value...that guy MIGHT have been a Templar but he did not kill Ezio. get over it and stop watching conspiracy videos...

Yeah, that's it. I changed my mind, but he might also get poisoned by the guy he was a templar so..

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 01:00 PM
Well, Ezio was indeed sick and all signs pointed to his natural death, I agree. In fact, the story pointed to that outcome from the start - up until that man showed up in the end.

It's clear to me his part on Embers was to raise doubt, to make us wonder that "Ezio was dying, but was that what really killed him?". The way they wrote that man - the way he touched Ezio's hand, the way he looked at Ezio, the way he told him to rest, the way Ezio reacted to him, even the camera angles - all point out to something else going on. "But how? Poison isn't that fast and there's no way he could have done it". I agree, it's odd. But he wasn't there for nothing. That's how ambiguous scenes work, you can't exactly point what happened, but there's doubt that something else happened and that things are not that black and white.

I personally never really made a decision myself. Recently, after Darby said Embers doesn't have an answer to how Ezio died - I held on to that thought stronger. I know Ezio died, but I can't say exactly how.
Sure, he wasnt there for nothing. first thing to consider is murder...does ANYTHING point to that? No, so it's not murder...it could be ANYTHING. it could a Templar making peace with Ezio.

Not everything Darby says is Holy. AC III devs said that Connor sequels depend on his popularity but fast forward a few months and Darby is saying that "it was always the plan to have one Connor game and they didnt ever consider making a sequel for him"


I would also like to add:

It is still possible for a man who is slowly dying to be murdered.
Just because someone is really old or has a disease it doesnt mean he is guaranteed to die from that disease; he could get hit by a car or murdered or die in thousands of other ways.
The thing is, though...this is not real life. it's a movie and no one has yet to produce why they think he was murdered. "Ezio was murdered because that man looked weird" is not enough. He MIGHT be a Templar but it does not necessarily mean that he killed Ezio...nothing points towards murder.

Templar_Az
04-15-2014, 01:22 PM
^ You said it yourself, "this is not real life", so 10 second murder by poison is surely possible.

Kirokill
04-15-2014, 01:27 PM
Well uh, it might be the ambush on Ezios house - that failed - what raised suspicion to the templars, hence sending a kid killing him.

RinoTheBouncer
04-15-2014, 02:58 PM
I don’t think he was killed. Just because the teen kid looked “weird” doesn’t mean he’s a killer. I believe there’s absolutely no need for anyone to kill him. The man left the Brotherhood long ago and he lives like any ordinary man with his wife and children, far away from everyone. Why would his death change anything? there wasn’t anything in the game that pointed towards someone wanting him dead after AC:R or even the ambush on his house which was all for Shao Jun. Nor was it known that he had something in his robes than anyone would’ve wanted to murder him to get it.

In my opinion, the young man is an illusion, he basically saw someone who reminded him of himself, more like the angel of death came to him in the form of his youth and recklessness. Just like in so many movies when a hero suicides to save the world, they show him seeing flashbacks of his early life and loved ones. I believe that’s what it was. He saw the days when he was young, reckless, only caring about the pleasures of life, and only caring about himself rather than a great good or cause. Right after Ezio passed away, we hear his letter being narrated say “When I was a young man...etc.”, I really think that this is all what it’s about.

A hero, who was a young man who had love but did not feel it, and liberty that he did not know it..etc. and it all portrayed itself in that image and now he’s a man full of wisdom and his life is coming full circle when the young self gives the “kiss of death” to the wise old man that he became to bring a final closure to his story.

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 04:30 PM
^ You said it yourself, "this is not real life", so 10 second murder by poison is surely possible.
But even the in-universe poison is not that fast...

frodrigues55
04-15-2014, 04:34 PM
Sure, he wasnt there for nothing. first thing to consider is murder...does ANYTHING point to that? No, so it's not murder...it could be ANYTHING. it could a Templar making peace with Ezio.

Not everything Darby says is Holy. AC III devs said that Connor sequels depend on his popularity but fast forward a few months and Darby is saying that "it was always the plan to have one Connor game and they didnt ever consider making a sequel for him"


The thing is, though...this is not real life. it's a movie and no one has yet to produce why they think he was murdered. "Ezio was murdered because that man looked weird" is not enough. He MIGHT be a Templar but it does not necessarily mean that he killed Ezio...nothing points towards murder.

Kid, it's an open end. I agree with you - that man can be anyone and mean anything - that includes being a killer. How come Ezio was of no value after what he had just done to help Shao Jun and train her for her Brotherhood?

It's the way the scene was written that implies that. You are trying to see it as something objective, it's not. It's subjective, it's within the details, what they wanted to say but didn't. And regardless of what Darby has said about AC3's development, he still is the man who wrote the scene in Embers. And to be honest, he didn't even have to say anything. In my own right, I got the impression of the open end even before he mentioned anything.

The difference is that you seem to need to know what happened; I'm fine with it being open.


I don’t think he was killed. Just because the teen kid looked “weird” doesn’t mean he’s a killer. I believe there’s absolutely no need for anyone to kill him. The man left the Brotherhood long ago and he lives like any ordinary man with his wife and children, far away from everyone. Why would his death change anything? there wasn’t anything in the game that pointed towards someone wanting him dead after AC:R or even the ambush on his house which was all for Shao Jun. Nor was it known that he had something in his robes than anyone would’ve wanted to murder him to get it.

Well, Ezio had just killed everyone who ambushed them. Their mission failed because of Ezio's help, their target scaped to safety and lead her Brotherhood afterwards. If Ezio wasn't really a problem for them anymore, his latest stunt proved them he was still active and was a valuable person to the Assassin's. The way I see it, having him eliminated isn't really that shocking - if they had done it earlier, perharps Shao Jun and the China Brotherhood wouldn't be able to move foward. I don't see why they couldn't fix that after at the end, don't you agree?



In my opinion, the young man is an illusion, he basically saw someone who reminded him of himself, more like the angel of death came to him in the form of his youth and recklessness. Just like in so many movies when a hero suicides to save the world, they show him seeing flashbacks of his early life and loved ones. I believe that’s what it was. He saw the days when he was young, reckless, only caring about the pleasures of life, and only caring about himself rather than a great good or cause. Right after Ezio passed away, we hear his letter being narrated say “When I was a young man...etc.”, I really think that this is all what it’s about.


That's also a beautiful way to see it - it was actually one of the ways I saw it. It's the end that makes most sense to me and it's so typical Darby. He is always playing with ilusions on how his characters minds work.

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 04:38 PM
Kid, it's an open end. I agree with you - that man can be anyone and mean anything - that includes a killer. It's the way the scene was written that implies that. You are trying to see it as something objective, it's not. It's subjective, it's within the details, what they wanted to say but didn't. And regardless of what Darby has said about AC3's development, he still is the man who wrote the scene in Embers. And to be honest, he didn't even have to say anything. In my own right, I got the impression of the open end even before he mentioned anything.

The difference is that you seem to need to know what happened; I'm fine with it being open.

Kid? be respectful please..

my point stands. Claims need support. it's an open end and possibilities are there BUT if a possibility has NO support, then it's a possibility eliminated. simple as that, people want it to be a killer...that Ezio was assassinated...well present support for this...argue with me...prove your case. that's what an open end does...it opens arguments.

frodrigues55
04-15-2014, 04:43 PM
Kid? be respectful please..

my point stands. Claims need support. it's an open end and possibilities are there BUT if a possibility has NO support, then it's a possibility eliminated. simple as that, people want it to be a killer...that Ezio was assassinated...well present support for this...argue with me...prove your case. that's what an open end does...it opens arguments.

People have done that. You just said that was not enough support and evidence for you. That's why the discussion can never go foward, what is a valuable detail for people, means nothing for you. It really can't go any further than that. Being sick and writting a letter doesn't prove he eventually died of natural causes, does it? It's not enough evidence for me to rule out the other ends. All of them are open in my opinion, that's why I think anything could be the cause.

Sorry for the "kid". I was being respectful when i said it, it's just that you couldn't hear my tone ;)

Sushiglutton
04-15-2014, 04:47 PM
One thing I think is a bit cool about the ending of Embers is that it's somewhat similar to the ending of the God Father part 3 with a key difference. If you haven't watched the God Father, don't click below (SPOILER).

See beolw vid at 0:50. The key difference is ofc that while Michael Corleone dies alone, Ezio has his family close by and they still love him :).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KupAgY18QDc

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 04:53 PM
People have done that. You just said that was not enough support and evidence for you. That's why the discussion can never go foward, what is a valuable detail for people, means nothing for you. It really can't go any further than that. Being sick and writting a letter doesn't prove he eventually died of natural causes, does it? It's not enough evidence for me to rule out the other ends. All of them are open in my opinion, that's why I think anything could be the cause.
I didn't say it was not enough, i addressed the points made in that video...


Sorry for the "kid". I was being respectful when i said it, it's just that you couldn't hear my tone ;)
Nothing respectful about saying "kid" to someone. It does not need a tone to know...you can of course use it in a joke context if we're pretty acquainted with each other but we're not. it implies inferiority, tone or not but apology accepted..

frodrigues55
04-15-2014, 05:01 PM
Nothing respectful about saying "kid" to someone. It does not need a tone to know...you can of course use it in a joke context if we're pretty acquainted with each other but we're not. it implies inferiority, tone or not but apology accepted..

I know, certain things don't need a tone to know how it's being said. Perharps with that in mind, reading a few pages back will make some other things clear ;)

Anyway, I guess there's nothing else to discuss, we have both made our points and we are probably going to have to live with them. It's not that serious, I'm sure there's something we can agree on eventually.

DumbGamerTag94
04-15-2014, 05:06 PM
Ok first off Ezio was 65 at the time of his death, fairly old for a man of his time, especially considering how hard of a life he lived, and being ill. Ezio knew he was dying thus why he wrote the letters to Sophia throughout the movie. Also Templars don't(typically) use hidden blades, the only one who did so was Haytham so the exception does not create the rule. So Ezio was ill. He clutches his left side with a wince of pain(a key sign of a heart attack by the way) heart attacks often present themselves as a sharp pain in the left arm or shoulder because you cannot feel pain in the heart, your brain interoperates the pain to be coming from the nearest limb.

Personally I don't even think the man exists, he is a figment of Ezio's imagination that represents death. A grim reaper of sorts. It is shown by the knowing look in both of their eyes when ezio talks to him, when Ezio moves he grabs his arm and Ezio sits back down panting(this is the moment where the heart attack is coming ezio is feeling a tightness in his left arm). This is followed by the knowing gaze. Then the man tells him to get some rest touches his shoulder(the moment the pain becomes sharp and higher on the arm the heart attack is beginning). So based on the fact that where the man touches him correspond with stages of a heart attack, ezio's age, illness, and the look of understanding between the two. It is my interpretation that the man does not actually exist he is death "touching" Ezio. A figment of Ezio's imagination and his knowing that death has arrived(he has been expecting it for the whole video). Ezio died of natural causes with honor in his home town, this scene is just Ezio accepting his fate and facing death Literally face to face. At least that's how I saw it.

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 05:06 PM
I know, certain things don't need a tone to know how it's being said. Perharps with that in mind, reading a few pages back will make some other things clear ;)
I didn't call you "kid" in my posts.

Locopells
04-15-2014, 05:20 PM
Maybe having James KIDD in your Avatar, put it in mind?!

Assassin_M
04-15-2014, 05:22 PM
Maybe having James KIDD in your Avatar, put it in mind?!
oh snap, that makes sense..

I'm sorry, Frodrigues, i did not know that you were referring to James Kidd. no hard feelings..

RinoTheBouncer
04-16-2014, 09:40 AM
Well, Ezio had just killed everyone who ambushed them. Their mission failed because of Ezio's help, their target scaped to safety and lead her Brotherhood afterwards. If Ezio wasn't really a problem for them anymore, his latest stunt proved them he was still active and was a valuable person to the Assassin's. The way I see it, having him eliminated isn't really that shocking - if they had done it earlier, perharps Shao Jun and the China Brotherhood wouldn't be able to move foward. I don't see why they couldn't fix that after at the end, don't you agree?

Well, that is possible and I do realize that it was made to be ambiguous. I just feel that using a man from Florence to poison Ezio but unknown means is a bit unlikely and for them to actually “kill” Ezio after 3 games in such an ambiguous moment in a low budget short film is a bit unlikely. Like for example, they had Altair sit in a library, record his memories, game finale, epic speeches and music..etc. I just didn’t feel like an end to a hero would be that half-assed. Even though I did like Embers so much. Makes me cry, really.

But I thought the idea of an illusion is more hollywood style and more common for a hero’s last moments.


That's also a beautiful way to see it - it was actually one of the ways I saw it. It's the end that makes most sense to me and it's so typical Darby. He is always playing with ilusions on how his characters minds work.

Yeah, I keep remembering Darby’s work with Edward on the ship and the whole illusion sequence and this could be part of it. It’s just that the budget couldn’t allow it to be super epic for Embers. I would’ve loved to see it in true CGI like those you see in films like TRON where Jeff Bridges is literally reconstructed digitally in a younger version of himself.


Ok first off Ezio was 65 at the time of his death, fairly old for a man of his time, especially considering how hard of a life he lived, and being ill. Ezio knew he was dying thus why he wrote the letters to Sophia throughout the movie. Also Templars don't(typically) use hidden blades, the only one who did so was Haytham so the exception does not create the rule. So Ezio was ill. He clutches his left side with a wince of pain(a key sign of a heart attack by the way) heart attacks often present themselves as a sharp pain in the left arm or shoulder because you cannot feel pain in the heart, your brain interoperates the pain to be coming from the nearest limb.

Personally I don't even think the man exists, he is a figment of Ezio's imagination that represents death. A grim reaper of sorts. It is shown by the knowing look in both of their eyes when ezio talks to him, when Ezio moves he grabs his arm and Ezio sits back down panting(this is the moment where the heart attack is coming ezio is feeling a tightness in his left arm). This is followed by the knowing gaze. Then the man tells him to get some rest touches his shoulder(the moment the pain becomes sharp and higher on the arm the heart attack is beginning). So based on the fact that where the man touches him correspond with stages of a heart attack, ezio's age, illness, and the look of understanding between the two. It is my interpretation that the man does not actually exist he is death "touching" Ezio. A figment of Ezio's imagination and his knowing that death has arrived(he has been expecting it for the whole video). Ezio died of natural causes with honor in his home town, this scene is just Ezio accepting his fate and facing death Literally face to face. At least that's how I saw it.

I saw it that same as you did. Wrote it on the previous page. Yes, I believe his life came full circle when his past and present selves met, and the past self is some sort of angel of death giving him the kiss of death and he’s facing it in his hometown, with honor and dignity not to mention victory because this s also the town where his father and brothers were falsely accused and executed.

MasterAssasin84
04-16-2014, 01:32 PM
the town where his father and brothers were falsely accused and executed.[/QUOTE]


This , I am not even entertaining the wild conspiracies surrounding Ezio's death ! He died from a chest and lung infection thats it ! its fact but i did find it very sentimental that Ezio succombed to his illness in exact same place were he lost half his family ! i suppose it symbolised him reuniting with them in a sense ? passing the threshold in the exact same spot his brothers did 45 years prior to Ezio's death. it was almost like he was walking the same pathway into the next world.

RinoTheBouncer
04-16-2014, 02:24 PM
the town where his father and brothers were falsely accused and executed.


This , I am not even entertaining the wild conspiracies surrounding Ezio's death ! He died from a chest and lung infection thats it ! its fact but i did find it very sentimental that Ezio succombed to his illness in exact same place were he lost half his family ! i suppose it symbolised him reuniting with them in a sense ? passing the threshold in the exact same spot his brothers did 45 years prior to Ezio's death. it was almost like he was walking the same pathway into the next world.[/QUOTE]

I think the same, my friend. The art of gaming is no different from other forms of art like music, films or paintings. It tends to bring up the sentimental and farfetched coincidences for artistic purposes, so they had this young man’s illusion with him to represent youth and recklessness meeting wisdom and knowledge, and uniting in the same place his father and brothers were executed. You can say that the journey began with the motive of revenge and it ended with vengeance fulfilled and victory earned.

DumbGamerTag94
04-16-2014, 05:01 PM
Yeah, I keep remembering Darbyís work with Edward on the ship and the whole illusion sequence and this could be part of it. Itís just that the budget couldnít allow it to be super epic for Embers. I wouldíve loved to see it in true CGI like those you see in films like TRON where Jeff Bridges is literally reconstructed digitally in a younger version of himself.

I saw it that same as you did. Wrote it on the previous page. Yes, I believe his life came full circle when his past and present selves met, and the past self is some sort of angel of death giving him the kiss of death and heís facing it in his hometown, with honor and dignity not to mention victory because this s also the town where his father and brothers were falsely accused and executed.
I in no way saw that as a past version of Ezio himself. Just an angel of death symbolizing Ezio's own self awareness that he is dying. If that person is anyone from his past I would guess it was maybe one of his brothers. Perhaps a grown version of petruccio or his older brother maybe(I would have to make a voice comparison) but he seems to have a simmilar demeanor to Ezio's older brother. Or it may be a younger version of his father or Mario. Or he's a combo of many of their looks and traits which I kind of see. But it doesn't matter who he is and I really don't think he's supposed to be young Ezio either. What's important is that he isn't really there. He's just a symbol for death. Nothing more nothing less. As long as you see him as that the details really don't matter

Wolfmeister1010
04-16-2014, 05:20 PM
I am going with the theory that the man didn't really exist, or was "death". Similar to John marston death after that mysterious man came.

He had templar insignia, he had a scar like ezio on his lip I think, he was a womanizer, shown by his huge interest in women..maybe death is supposed to remind you of yourself or something, idk.

Wolfmeister1010
04-16-2014, 05:31 PM
Or perhaps the Templars had been watching Ezio for some time, waiting to see if he would ever be a threat to them again, and that man was a Templar who came and decided not to kill him himself because he knew Ezio was close to dying anyway. This is why he looked so smug. That is why he was so sarcastic "Have courage, old man".

LoyalACFan
04-16-2014, 08:47 PM
Or perhaps the Templars had been watching Ezio for some time, waiting to see if he would ever be a threat to them again, and that man was a Templar who came and decided not to kill him himself because he knew Ezio was close to dying anyway. This is why he looked so smug. That is why he was so sarcastic "Have courage, old man".

That's kind of what I think. He was a Templar, but he didn't kill him. I don't think the "corraggio, vecchio" was sarcastic though.

OK, my full theory is this... The Templars actually respected Ezio, given that he cleared out the corrupt Borgia influence from their Order, but nevertheless they kept tabs on him to make sure he wasn't going to be a menace to them in the future. The young man was a Templar. He had seen that Ezio had been deathly ill for weeks, but also that he had become paranoid and hyper-defensive of his family, fearing that someone was coming after him, and he would soon be dead, no longer be able to protect them. So when he sat down on that bench next to him and gave him that 'knowing nod', that was essentially his way of saying "yes, I know who you are, and I am a Templar, as you suspected, but I'm walking away without harming you. You and your family are not in danger from us. Have courage, and get some rest."

DumbGamerTag94
04-17-2014, 12:06 AM
Why are people saying he was a Templar? I watched that dumb conspiracy video on the first page of this thread and then watched the unedited version on youtube. In the full version of the movie I cannot see any "Templar" logo whatsoever. Comparing the two still frames back and forth a few seconds ago I concluded that there is no logo there at all in the real thing, and it may well have been added with Photoshop to add some fuel for that conspiracy fire.

And if it is there and I am missing it. The "Templar" symbol on the gauntlet in the conspiracy still is Gold, the Templar cross is Red. It is even Red on their silver rings, and don't point to AC1 because the white cross and Black cross were not Templar symbols, they were symbols of the Knights Hospitaliar and Teutonic Knights respectively, there were Templars in those orders, but they were separate organizations entirely. So there is no precedent for a Templar symbol that is not red. To say otherwise is not founded on fact or precedent and is thus speculation and cannot be accepted as valid theory.

There is also NO evidence that the Templars respected or were grateful for Ezio removing the Borgia. Every Templar we saw in Italy in the Ezio trilogy was loyal to the Borgia, and there is no evidence to support the existence of opposition to their control of the order. So due to no support for this theory within the canonical story it is also inadmissible evidence for discovering the truth of the story. Speculation only

So I don't know how he could possibly be a Templar based on any evidence whatsoever. If someone can show evidence supporting those two things I may change my mind but I see no support as is that the man was a Templar.

I suggest we hold court here. Supporters of conspiracy can show evidence here, detractors can tear it down, and vise versa, then we can have a poll elsewhere to get the publics votes(like a jury) to decide if Ezio was murdered or not haha.

LoyalACFan
04-17-2014, 01:17 AM
Why are people saying he was a Templar? I watched that dumb conspiracy video on the first page of this thread and then watched the unedited version on youtube. In the full version of the movie I cannot see any "Templar" logo whatsoever. Comparing the two still frames back and forth a few seconds ago I concluded that there is no logo there at all in the real thing, and it may well have been added with Photoshop to add some fuel for that conspiracy fire.

And if it is there and I am missing it. The "Templar" symbol on the gauntlet in the conspiracy still is Gold, the Templar cross is Red. It is even Red on their silver rings, and don't point to AC1 because the white cross and Black cross were not Templar symbols, they were symbols of the Knights Hospitaliar and Teutonic Knights respectively, there were Templars in those orders, but they were separate organizations entirely. So there is no precedent for a Templar symbol that is not red. To say otherwise is not founded on fact or precedent and is thus speculation and cannot be accepted as valid theory.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111219161130/assassinscreed/images/f/f3/Templar_Embers.png

I think it has been touched up in that photo so I can see why someone would think it's shopped, but I just watched it myself on YouTube. This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j6T8oVlE2Y I don't know how someone couldn't see the cross on his wrist if you pause it at 7:28. At the very least you can tell it's some kind of red mark, even on 240p. Turn it up to 720p fullscreen and there's no debate whatsoever.


There is also NO evidence that the Templars respected or were grateful for Ezio removing the Borgia. Every Templar we saw in Italy in the Ezio trilogy was loyal to the Borgia, and there is no evidence to support the existence of opposition to their control of the order. So due to no support for this theory within the canonical story it is also inadmissible evidence for discovering the truth of the story. Speculation only

Cesare Borgia died almost 20 years before Ezio, likely before the guy on the bench was even born, and even that was long after he had lost power and influence within the Templars. To suggest that anyone was still loyal to Rodrigo in 1524 is absurd, and we know that by at least 1715 the Templar Order had recovered from the Borgia snafu, and in modern times Abstergo reviled Rodrigo as much as the Assassins did. I don't see any reason why, after two decades of no Borgia influence, the Italian Templars would have felt any better about the corruption of their order than Abstergo did. Even if they weren't exactly thankful to Ezio, they absolutely had reason to respect him. He only killed greedy corrupt bastards, and actually showed mercy when he deemed it appropriate.

And of course it's speculation, if we're ruling out speculation there's absolutely nothing to talk about here. It's open-ended, and that's my analysis of it. The bench guy is DEFINITELY a Templar though. Even if he's intended to be a figment of Ezio's imagination, the cross is there, it's indisputable.

DumbGamerTag94
04-17-2014, 02:04 AM
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111219161130/assassinscreed/images/f/f3/Templar_Embers.png

I think it has been touched up in that photo so I can see why someone would think it's shopped, but I just watched it myself on YouTube. This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j6T8oVlE2Y I don't know how someone couldn't see the cross on his wrist if you pause it at 7:28. At the very least you can tell it's some kind of red mark, even on 240p. Turn it up to 720p fullscreen and there's no debate whatsoever.



Cesare Borgia died almost 20 years before Ezio, likely before the guy on the bench was even born, and even that was long after he had lost power and influence within the Templars. To suggest that anyone was still loyal to Rodrigo in 1524 is absurd, and we know that by at least 1715 the Templar Order had recovered from the Borgia snafu, and in modern times Abstergo reviled Rodrigo as much as the Assassins did. I don't see any reason why, after two decades of no Borgia influence, the Italian Templars would have felt any better about the corruption of their order than Abstergo did. Even if they weren't exactly thankful to Ezio, they absolutely had reason to respect him. He only killed greedy corrupt bastards, and actually showed mercy when he deemed it appropriate.

And of course it's speculation, if we're ruling out speculation there's absolutely nothing to talk about here. It's open-ended, and that's my analysis of it. The bench guy is DEFINITELY a Templar though. Even if he's intended to be a figment of Ezio's imagination, the cross is there, it's indisputable.

That was a strange video it has the end at the beginning for some reason, but just to be sure I checked other videos too, I guess there is a bit of a red blob there on my screen, I have a fairly poor screen so that may be why I missed it even at 720 it looks like a blob to me nothing distinct, I cant tell for certain on my screen, is that your own photo or not? cuz I see some sort of blob in the video, but nothing near as distinct as that photo.

As for the 1524 Borgia loyalty thing. Obviously they cant literally be loyal to them still they are all dead, but I haven't seen any evidence even in more recent AC games that the Templars hated the Borgia, If anything they brought the order closer to its goal than anyone, maybe a bitterness that they failed, but not a hate of Borgias. Where does it say modern Templars resent the Borgia? Not that I don't believe you I just haven't seen this myself anywhere. And what do you mean the order recovered from the Borgia Snafu in AC4? The Templars weren't destroyed when the Borgia fell, only the Italian Templars were effected by this, the British, Spanish, and French Templars were still in business, and their influence spread to the colonies Just because the Italian Templars were nearly wiped out doesn't mean their global influence was gone. They may not like the man but he was a major figure in Templar history. He nearly achieved their goals. But either way loyal or no to the Borgia legacy, its speculation, there really isn't much evidence either way, so since its all based on speculation its irrelevant to the situation.

Assassin_M
04-17-2014, 02:13 AM
but I haven't seen any evidence even in more recent AC games that the Templars hated the Borgia,
http://i.gyazo.com/bdd8da734d7ac92a4bf746af1c165552.png
http://i.gyazo.com/10e1e72a4d4069464c1207b52f5de399.png
ACR Multiplayer dossiers

RinoTheBouncer
04-20-2014, 05:37 PM
Thatís what Iím trying to see. Heís not literally young Ezio, heís just a manifestation of who Ezio was when he was young. Death manifested itself that way for artistic purposes and for the sake of the story to make it look like the wiser old self is meeting what it was before.

potato180
04-24-2014, 08:28 PM
ok guys the video is obviously meant to fool you so really if you look the kids arm you can clearly see a tan wrist sheath for hiding weapons like a hidden blade. Also do you guys really think that the kid didnt know who he was. You can tell by the way he looked at ezio when he put his right hand on ezios shoulder. The one with the wrist sheath. Yes he was coughing but that doesnt mean he was terminally ill. I read somewhere that the coughing came from working in his olive fields where a lot of dirt is kicked up and floating in the air. Also the kid said in Italian, "have courage old man" as he was touching ezios shoulder. Then ezio looked at him when he touched his shoulder and the kid did an obvious nod at him. What do you think he was implying? Ezio already knew he could die from his sickness. Lastly as the kid took his hand off ezios shoulder you can barely hear a little "shink" like the sound of a blade sharply moving. You can tell that the kid did something to ezios left shoulder because ezio felt pain in the shoulder the kid touched. You can see this when ezio grunts and grabs his shoulder.

LoyalACFan
04-24-2014, 09:40 PM
ok guys the video is obviously meant to fool you so really if you look the kids arm you can clearly see a tan wrist sheath for hiding weapons like a hidden blade. Also do you guys really think that the kid didnt know who he was. You can tell by the way he looked at ezio when he put his right hand on ezios shoulder. The one with the wrist sheath. Yes he was coughing but that doesnt mean he was terminally ill. I read somewhere that the coughing came from working in his olive fields where a lot of dirt is kicked up and floating in the air. Also the kid said in Italian, "have courage old man" as he was touching ezios shoulder. Then ezio looked at him when he touched his shoulder and the kid did an obvious nod at him. What do you think he was implying? Ezio already knew he could die from his sickness. Lastly as the kid took his hand off ezios shoulder you can barely hear a little "shink" like the sound of a blade sharply moving. You can tell that the kid did something to ezios left shoulder because ezio felt pain in the shoulder the kid touched. You can see this when ezio grunts and grabs his shoulder.

There's no weapon on his wrist. The "vineyard dust" thing is dumb since that would mean all of his his family members would be coughing too. And he was never clutching his shoulder, he was clutching his chest right above his heart.

potato180
04-25-2014, 05:55 PM
his weapon could have been under the white cloth where u cant see it and posion blades are small so they can fit in maybe a small hidden blade hilt mechanism. also it doenst say anywhere that ezios family worked in his olive field so that theory is still possible. also just because ezio clutches the area
q right above his heart and not direcly on his shoulder doest mean that it was a heart attack he could have been clutching his left side because he felt the sting of the blade

Assassin_M
04-25-2014, 07:02 PM
also just because ezio clutches the area
q right above his heart and not direcly on his shoulder doest mean that it was a heart attack he could have been clutching his left side because he felt the sting of the blade
Yeah, I agree it happens to me too...when I feel a pain in my head I clutch my left toe...Ezio dying by poison = confirmed


also it doenst say anywhere that ezios family worked in his olive field so that theory is still possible.
It also says that it was only recently that Ezio started working on olive fields himself...he usually hired people but because of his paranoia, he stopped hiring anyone.


his weapon could have been under the white cloth where u cant see it and posion blades are small so they can fit in maybe a small hidden blade hilt mechanism.
Poison blades don't extend...not to mention the danger of it being hidden UNDER his sleeve. there's also the fact that the poison blade was invented by Altair, put down in the codex and the Codex was lost in the Villa attack, thus Templars have no way of knowing what the heck a poison blade is..

potato180
04-25-2014, 07:14 PM
ha funny... im just applying real life to the theory and just cause it was recent doesnt mean he couldnt get sick that quick. dude in those days u could die from a common cold. Which u can get just from standing outside in cold rainy weather for a day.

Assassin_M
04-25-2014, 07:21 PM
just cause it was recent doesnt mean he couldnt get sick that quick.
Yes it does..


dude in those days u could die from a common cold. Which u can get just from standing outside in cold rainy weather for a day.
Uhhhh...no...no one died of a common cold back then, or at least not JUST because it was common cold. Common colds can be fatal if left unattended, even today and that depends on how powerful your systems are.
influenza and fevers, maybe...lots died of those but no not common colds...common colds had treatments since Ancient times but still, if i remember correctly, by the Renaissance, medicine had advanced considerably that influenza and fevers would be less likely kill a lot of people...

potato180
04-25-2014, 07:40 PM
well ya if left unattended but thats not my point my point is that u dont know how recently he started working on his olive fields and ezio was coughing u could get into a coughing fit if u had dust in ur lungs also considering the fact that ezio fought before his death he could have worsend his situation with that. also how do u know posion blades dont extend?

Assassin_M
04-25-2014, 07:54 PM
my point is that u dont know how recently he started working on his olive fields
I know it was recent....Ezio mentioning it to Shao Jun implies immediate recentness...probably a few days before Shao Jun arrived


and ezio was coughing u could get into a coughing fit if u had dust in ur lungs
Perhaps but like I said....it doesn't have to be from the olive fields...


also considering the fact that ezio fought before his death he could have worsend his situation with that.
Sure, which means it's more likely that he died of a heart attack


also how do u know posion blades dont extend?
I played AC II...if you payed attention to the design of the blade, watched its Animation and read Altair's codex, you'd know that it was pretty delicate and Altair pointed out how dangerous it can be...also, in the codex abstract for the poison blade, there's no mechanism..

SixKeys
04-25-2014, 09:32 PM
I love how no-one questions that "quick poison" exists in the games and kills the victim in less than 10 seconds, but in Embers it's somehow impossible.

Assassin_M
04-25-2014, 09:44 PM
I love how no-one questions that "quick poison" exists in the games and kills the victim in less than 10 seconds, but in Embers it's somehow impossible.
Actually, fast poison takes over 20 seconds to kill....it's called fast poison because it kicks in quicker, not kills quicker.

You also forgot how the person dies....the poison from the poison blade is called Conium or Hemlock in the game. it works on the central nervous system and disrupts its operation and that explains why guards usually flail around kicking and grunting until paralysis kicks in to the limbs and they collapse...none of this happened to Ezio between the time when people claim that the man injected him with the blade and the time he passes away which is 15 seconds (WITH slow motion)

Ureh
04-25-2014, 11:40 PM
It seemed like he died of fairly natural causes. I think they wanted to send off Altair and Ezio in a similar manner. Both sitting up and thinking of something that is precious to them before they fade. Can't remember where I read this but iirc dying in a seated position means tranquility or something like that. :P

potato180
04-26-2014, 02:06 AM
what is the point of the vambrace then?

Templar_Az
04-26-2014, 06:00 AM
Ezio getting Assassinated Theory seems way more probable than the scar-faced guy being some representation of Death BS.

Assassin_M
04-26-2014, 07:46 PM
what is the point of the vambrace then?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/shmupo/coscom ac/attachment.jpg
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120820095043/assassinscreed/zh/images/2/27/Char_cesare.png
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110214110907/assassinscreed/images/3/3e/TheCapitano.png
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111203110750/assassinscreed/images/5/58/Shahkulu_render.png
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120212074655/assassinscreed/images/f/f0/Leandrosrenderhd.png
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111204005948/assassinscreed/images/9/9d/Damat-ACRDatabaseRender-TST.png
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111206174654/assassinscreed/images/7/7a/Georgios_Kostas.png
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111119140413/assassinscreed/images/a/ab/ACRTarik.png
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120518190134/assassinscreed/images/c/ce/The_count.png
The same point these guys have embraces for...NOTE: they have no blades under their sleeves either

Assassin_M
04-26-2014, 07:47 PM
Ezio getting Assassinated Theory seems way more probable than the scar-faced guy being some representation of Death BS.
Actually, there's more supporting him being death (which I don't even agree with) than Ezio being assassinated by him

Shahkulu101
04-26-2014, 07:48 PM
God Only Knows what happened to Ezio.

Hans684
04-26-2014, 08:34 PM
God Only Knows what happened to Ezio.

There is no God in AC.

Ureh
04-26-2014, 09:33 PM
There is no God in AC.

"Ah, you may not believe in Him, but it seems He believes in you."
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsmdjiOzqq1qbiwyp.png
Maybe there is one and it's impossible to know for certain. Only faith and trust to depend on.

Shahkulu101
04-26-2014, 09:44 PM
There is no God in AC.
Ezio may have died from poison - or not it's all irrelevant

(background vocals) Buh buhhhh

God only knows what happened to Ezio

Hans684
04-26-2014, 10:01 PM
Ezio may have died from poison - or not it's all irrelevant

(background vocals) Buh buhhhh

God only knows what happened to Ezio

I'm not gonna speculate on his death, it's pointless since we will never get a confirmation. Just like the box Ezio gave to Shao Jun, we are not gonna get to know what's inside the box anytime soon.

Either God retired a looong time ago, Is a First Civilization member or he don't exist at all.


"Ah, you may not believe in Him, but it seems He believes in you."
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsmdjiOzqq1qbiwyp.png
Maybe there is one and it's impossible to know for certain. Only faith and trust to depend on.

Most likely another First Civilization member.