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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:07 PM
This has been bugging me for a fair while. I know all about the TOAS debates so spare me those.

But I'm curious. I NEVER use it in a fighter. I don't see the need. Yes I've tried it. Then I discarded it.

I can truthfully say the only a/c I've used trim with are TB-3 and He-111 on bomb runs.

If you would be so generous, share your experiences with me.

My regards

Mike



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:07 PM
This has been bugging me for a fair while. I know all about the TOAS debates so spare me those.

But I'm curious. I NEVER use it in a fighter. I don't see the need. Yes I've tried it. Then I discarded it.

I can truthfully say the only a/c I've used trim with are TB-3 and He-111 on bomb runs.

If you would be so generous, share your experiences with me.

My regards

Mike



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:08 PM
I use more elevator trim than you could possibly imagine.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:09 PM
trimming is a lot easier than fighting the stick, and failure to trim properly deprives you of your best speeds.

Regards,
HerrBaron

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:11 PM
I use trim alot bit its mostly for keeping the nose down

I also trim my rudder in German ac & American ac to get them flying a lil bit straighter helps when aiming from Six



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fluke39
07-26-2003, 08:16 PM
i use trim so i can do other things while i'm flying somewhere ( make a sandwich etc)

also i find it extremly useful steadying the target in a head on pass ( usually the first head on pass from a distance)

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:19 PM
I probably make a trim adjustment every 5 seconds for the whole flight.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:25 PM
I trim down after TO then I leave it there. Not like there are looooong flights before dogfight or combat.


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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:28 PM
I do.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:32 PM
I use elevator trim all the time. I also sometimes use the Level Stabilizer. Assign it on the controls menu. It's very useful especially for bombers.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:36 PM
I recently only found out how to use it, and I do use it like the guy before, to stabilize so I can go grab a snack. I don't see much use using it in a dogfight. I did use it in a TB3 and He111. Also I used it in IL2 to stabilize myself along a road, so I can drop the cassete armament on target.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:43 PM
Locust_161st wrote:
- I use trim alot bit its mostly for keeping the nose
- down
-
- I also trim my rudder in German ac & American ac to
- get them flying a lil bit straighter helps when
- aiming from Six
-


Strangely I have not found any rudder trim in my 109's and 190's, could you enlighten me as to where you found the mystical rudder trim for German planes? /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:44 PM
I trim all the time. I trim for takeoff, for climb, for cruise, for decent and then finally for landing.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:52 PM
same here.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:04 PM
Der_Schnitter_t

You didn't look to hard. the K4 has rudder trim. Bug? Maybe, but it's there anyway. You'll also notice it's the only German fighter that doesn't have it ball centered, so you do need to trim it.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:41 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I use more elevator trim than you could possibly
- imagine.


I doubt it. I have a very good imagination (not as good as yours though).

So I'm the only one so far that doesn't use it? I must admit that time constraints force me to use AP to get from place to place in single player. Online the distances are very short.

More input most welcome. I'm really trying to refine how I play/fly this game/sim.

Regards

Mike

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:45 PM
It's much easier to aim when the plane is trimmed../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:46 PM
I like my women neatly trimmed.



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Eeeeeeeeeee.......

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:55 PM
I don't use it. Do you guys trim once or do you trim as you are behind another a/c trying to get a shot? Also, doesn't having negative elevator trim have a negative affect on your turning ability?

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:11 PM
Dylan_D wrote:
- I don't use it. Do you guys trim once or do you
- trim as you are behind another a/c trying to get a
- shot? Also, doesn't having negative elevator trim
- have a negative affect on your turning ability?
-
-

Only at high speed. If you are turning you either arn't flying fast or won't be for very long /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:19 PM
homeless1 wrote:
-
-
- This has been bugging me for a fair while. I know
- all about the TOAS debates so spare me those.
-
- But I'm curious. I NEVER use it in a fighter. I
- don't see the need. Yes I've tried it. Then I
- discarded it.

Are you nuts? I find it essential to trim the
elevators at least.

I trim whenever I am flying relatively straight
and level, and for every speed change (time
permitting). I don't tend to trim for climb,
but maybe I should.



Message Edited on 07/26/0309:25PM by AaronGT

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:50 PM
AaronGT wrote:

- Are you nuts?



Well, yes I am but thats not relevent.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:51 PM
Icarus999 wrote:
- I like my women neatly trimmed.
-


Visit Jordan bro /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:54 PM
homeless1 wrote:
-
- AaronGT wrote:
-
-
-- Are you nuts?
-
-
-
- Well, yes I am but thats not relevent.


I can vouch for that.

Really!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:56 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- It's much easier to aim when the plane is
- trimmed../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



This is very interesting Buzz. I think I fly OK but I can't aim for sh!t. Could I trouble you for a more detailed explanation please?

Regards

Mike

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 11:36 PM
homeless1

If your plane is out of trim. It will either be pitching up or down, or yawing left or right, or rolling left or right. Or a combination of all these things. When you try and aim, you have to compensate for all this. It makes it much harder. It's much easier to shoot with your stick around center, and that is much easier if the plane is flying straight and level.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 11:48 PM
i never used the trimm since FB is out.
sure i tryed it, but i have a very sensitive hand /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
also in a fight its just a disadvantage to trimm all the time. It takes to much attention, that u could need for something else.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:11 AM
I use trim Constantly...except in the Hottest heat of an aerial engagement/dogfight, at close quarters, when you just don't have the time...... actually, sometimes i DO work the trim even then.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:30 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- homeless1
-
- If your plane is out of trim. It will either be
- pitching up or down, or yawing left or right, or
- rolling left or right. Or a combination of all these
- things. When you try and aim, you have to compensate
- for all this. It makes it much harder. It's much
- easier to shoot with your stick around center, and
- that is much easier if the plane is flying straight
- and level.


Thanks Buzz. Do you have all this mapped to a joystick or do you use keys?

Thanks to others who have commented.

Apart from commie. He's a big homo /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif





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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:33 AM
I have the whole CH setup, so I never have to touch the keyboard. It makes it much easier.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:42 AM
I usually trim the aileron and rudder just after take off for level flight @ medium speed. As far as elevator trim; I use it constantly to make corrections; on takeoff, flight and landing. Of course when I'm in a multi engine AC I practically fly w/ trim.

As far as rudder trim, I find it hard to believe anyone would forgo this if it's available! I still fly IL2 a lot and back then the 109's need pressure on the rudder constantly! It's a big disadvantage especially in diving attacks. I couldn't hit the ground W/ a 109 until I got some rudder pedals.

In FB it's much easier (as are many things I notice)




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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:06 AM
I never used trim, I hold the stick the whole flight. I'm not 100% sure what trim does but I have a good idea, right now I'm just working on becoming a better pilot. After I beat my german campaign I'm going to set up all my stuff to my joystick that I can so I dont need my keyboard and go on the russian one. Right now I do full real expect I have exteral views, when I do russian I'm doing full real, no auto pilot and no time excelleration.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:23 AM
I didnt start to use trim until i got my X45 and could put it on a slider that is easily recenterable. I use to try to use it but i woulkd loose count of where i was and invariably wind up flying out of trim. Now it is no problem as the trim is so easy to recenter.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:47 AM
I use no trim.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:04 AM
If you've ever flown a plane for real, for any length of time, you'll realise the importance of trim once your arm starts to ache from constant forward stick pressure to keep the nose down. It's much easier to keep a constant alt and speed if you trim elevators for level flight in cruise situations, as in campaign mode, to and from the objective. Same in the sim.

In WW2 109 pilots used to deliberately trim nose up requiring even greater forward pressure on the stick for level flight. They did this to overcome the plane's natural nose heaviness, so that it would pull out of dives or into climbs more crisply, without mushing. Could make all the difference in combat.

early 109's had no rudder trim so they had to kick the rudder all the time to keep straight. Willy Messerschmitt obviously didn't believe in creature comforts for his pilots! Tight cockpit restricting lateral stick movement, fabric ailerons for excessive heaviness at speed*..awkward canopy, poor view, louuud engine, very narrow undercarriage for tricky landings, etc.


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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:15 AM
I've found that auto. pilot works best off line.Going to the fight and then clicking f1 to fight or to evade.On line however,I've tried trim every time only to give up. and fly with the stick. But I heard it does work so I keep trying.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:17 AM
rubberduck99 wrote:
- I've found that auto. pilot works best off
- line.Going to the fight and then clicking f1 to
- fight or to evade.On line however,I've tried trim
- every time only to give up. and fly with the stick.
- But I heard it does work so I keep trying.


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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:29 AM
Mystical rudder trim is Z&X holding onto Ctrl. of coarse.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:34 AM
rubberduck99 wrote:
- Mystical rudder trim is Z&X holding onto Ctrl. of
- coarse.

'New Users', you gotta love 'em, eh?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:41 AM
Yes I've found direct answers work best. But thats because Im a very slow typer. latter.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:48 AM
rubberduck99 wrote:
- Mystical rudder trim is Z&X holding onto Ctrl. of
- coarse.
-


I'm sorry but I have to ask...

Do you like Marmite?

I eat lots of it when I'm not being a tool.


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Message Edited on 07/27/0302:55PM by homeless1

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:02 AM
Very,Interesting. But Stupid.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:11 AM
rubberduck99 wrote:
- Very,Interesting. But Stupid.
-


Words I live my life by.



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:12 AM
trim is used by llamas.

-------
I'm just saying...


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Message Edited on 07/27/0309:01PM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:14 AM
Good input from IRONCROSS and Bearcat99.

Thanks for your time.



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:15 AM
U don't like my meaningless input?

-------
I'm just saying...


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Message Edited on 07/27/0308:58PM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:20 AM
I do, I do, I do.......

I like trimming, I allways the plane to fly at the right speed then adjusting my throttle to maintain altitude, when enroute, taking off or landing.

But NEVER in combat, that's for chickens /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:21 AM
Edit: Oops.... :|



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Message Edited on 07/27/0309:10PM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:45 AM
homeless1 wrote:
-
- RayBanJockey wrote:
-- I use more elevator trim than you could possibly
-- imagine.
-
-
- I doubt it. I have a very good imagination (not as
- good as yours though).


Ok then, use your imagination and tell me what you think the most someone could use elevator trim for is.

Then, I will blow your mind and tell you what you have been missing.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:50 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- Ok then, use your imagination and tell me what you
- think the most someone could use elevator trim for
- is.
-
- Then, I will blow your mind and tell you what you
- have been missing.


I'm not sure but I think I may love you.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:10 AM
Overrated

Tully__
07-27-2003, 11:40 AM
I use trim whenever I'm flying at a constant speed/attitude. Start a climb, trim for best climb speed. Level out, trim for level cruise speed. Descent, trim for descent. Landing approach, trim for approach speed. It makes general flying around lots easier.

In combat I trim for somewhere between best climb and fast cruise speeds, exactly where depends on the aircraft I'm in.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 11:57 AM
I use elevator trim to trim my plane level or slightly nose up right after take off, then I leave it there. Never used aileron or rudder trim...might be missing out...


I've also noticed that FB seems to have a "trim memory". I don't have to re-trim after I've landed (or crashed) as long as I use the same plane and loadout on the next flight. Saves some time and effort. (Or maybe this works just because I use my mouse wheel for elevator trim and I don't scroll the wheel back between flights...)

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:12 PM
Maj_Death wrote:
- I trim all the time. I trim for takeoff, for climb,
- for cruise, for decent and then finally for landing.
-
-
-

Same here.
I use a lot of elevator trim in level flight, for if you increase the throttle the nose comes up and vice versa. Thus for fast level flight you need to be well trimmed.
For takeoff and climbing I trim to nose up and then it climbs easier.
On some planes (e.g. He 111) I use a lot of rudder trim on takeoff to counteract the torque.
Cheers!

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:53 PM
I've just tried flying a different way (ie faffing with trim) on-line and got reamed. Didn't even get close.

I'm gonna wait for the patch and learn how to fly properly.

Oh, and rubberduck. Sorry about ragging you. You caught me at a bad moment. I've edited the post.

Regards

Mike

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:41 PM
I've just built a home made trim slider.

Used an old joystick, removed the insides and put a 180 degree wheel on. Wired it up as the Y axis (pedals are on the X) and soldered in a 15 pin Y cable.

Just need to box it up and Im ready to try it properly, right now Im holding a pile of wires in my hand which isn't working too well.



Mad


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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:27 PM
I used to trim all the time, particularly to steady the nose when I felt a firing solution was imminent. With FB's neutered trim though I rarely do - it is too easy to go overboard and end up, inadvertently, bat-turning; but you don't want us to go there, so I won't.

Heard good news about Beta08 though.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:20 PM
Hey, try flying a real airplane some time without trimming. You'll be one sorry sonofabich.

But EPP Gibbs, if your arm "aches" from holding a joystick, maybe you should cut back on the video games a bit and get into the weight room.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:25 PM
D-Spade wrote:
- Hey, try flying a real airplane some time without
- trimming. You'll be one sorry sonofabich.
-
- But EPP Gibbs, if your arm "aches" from holding a
- joystick, maybe you should cut back on the video
- games a bit and get into the weight room.


I'm not trying to fly a real airplane, Muscles.


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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:30 PM
D-Spade

Gibbs was talking about flying a real plane. Do they use joysticks?

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:07 PM
In real life on top of climb when airspeed start increasing you feel strong back pressure that the plane want to go up. In this case you need to trim teh wheel forward (lets say piper) after your cruise airspeed is set.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:03 PM
I prefer my women silky smooth but neatly trimmed will suffice in a pinch. Jordan eh? The woman or the country? Now for my a/c is use trim quite a bit. I like to trim to neutral then go nose up 1 to 2 clicks. Only trim rudder if in a crosswind.

Fireman

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:40 PM
I like to trim way back, calibrate my joystick back, and spring file forward. This way I can do bat turns at will, yet still fly level and hands free. (RBJ ShiftT)

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Message Edited on 07/27/0303:43PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:52 PM
You are an ahole

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 09:13 PM
Message to Oleg:

If you slow down trim I shall become more powerfull than you can possibly imagine.

(what happened)

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Message Edited on 07/27/0304:15PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 03:58 PM
I use trim in the il2 when i attack whit rockets

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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 05:50 PM
I have trim mapped onto a hat switch.

It works really well!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 05:45 AM
For what reasons would you use rudder or aileron trim? Shouldn't the plane fly straight with the rudder and ailerons perfectly in the middle?

Also, I'm using the keyboard to adjust trim, and I seem to have to hammer on the trim buttons forever for just a slight adjustment. Is this normal?

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 08:25 AM
sureshot324 wrote:
- For what reasons would you use rudder or aileron
- trim? Shouldn't the plane fly straight with the
- rudder and ailerons perfectly in the middle?

Rudder trim to correct yaw movement right or left due to the prop.

Aileron trim to counteract some forms of damge that make you roll a certian way.



- Also, I'm using the keyboard to adjust trim, and I
- seem to have to hammer on the trim buttons forever
- for just a slight adjustment. Is this normal?

Oleg really screwed up trim in FB. There is something about tapping it now that isn't the same as it was in IL2 (not as precise) Ironically, if you are at neutral trim you can hold the button down for 3 or 4 seconds and the trim will keep moving for 10 whole seconds, all the way to the end of it's limit (what a joke). If you want it to move significantly, then hold it down for a full second. Problem is, it moves so slow (and in a fashon where it keeps moving even when you let go of the button) you won't be able to tell right away what you just did.



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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 09:27 AM
I have to agree with RBJ about this trim thing, i only use elevator trim not to let the nose go up, but the downside is i have to pull the stick harder if i want to climb or make a loop.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 10:11 AM
Trimming in the Il-2 (no FB): I have an impression that the steps are too big, using keyboard, I mean the plane is nose heavy, I hit trim once, then the plane reaches high into the sky. Is there any way to adjust this?

How can I connect the trim to the mousewheel?

Tully__
07-30-2003, 11:43 AM
HansKnappstick wrote:
- Trimming in the Il-2 (no FB): I have an impression
- that the steps are too big, using keyboard, I mean
- the plane is nose heavy, I hit trim once, then the
- plane reaches high into the sky. Is there any way to
- adjust this?
-
- How can I connect the trim to the mousewheel?
-
-

Mousewheel is not assignable in IL2 Sturmovik, only in FB.

The Sturmovik keyboard trim steps were a bit big in the original game, but one of the patches made them half as big (also twice as many keystrokes required for maximum trim).

The forgotten battles keyboard trim seems to work on the aggregate time the key is held down rather that actual key strokes.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:05 PM
Lamers who cant control there AC and want to loop you to death.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:28 PM
VMF-214_HaVoK wrote:
- Lamers who cant control there AC and want to loop
- you to death.


Actually because some people use trim, they can control their AC far better than those who don't. Not only can they can loop harder, they are more effective landing high speed shots in boom and zoom. Of course some pilots are good enough to use all of the controls of the sim to their advantage. Others aren't.

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fluke39
07-30-2003, 02:32 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Message to Oleg:
-
- If you slow down trim I shall become more powerfull
- than you can possibly imagine.
-

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


hmm might have guessed this thread would be your new home for the week !!

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Message Edited on 07/30/0301:33PM by fluke39

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 07:45 PM
Ketalar wrote:
- I use elevator trim to trim my plane level or
- slightly nose up right after take off, then I leave
- it there. Never used aileron or rudder trim...might
- be missing out...
-
-
- I've also noticed that FB seems to have a "trim
- memory".[snip] (Or maybe this works just because I use my
- mouse wheel for elevator trim and I don't scroll the
- wheel back between flights...)

yep, it's the mouse wheel alright...same thing happens to me. Drives me nuts when I swap views too much.

I use trim for those loooooong off-line flights, like in the german campaign over Leningrad. In combat I either trim to give me a neutral setting at the speed I usually fight at, or trim for maximum climb. Great in turn fights, and good for recovering from dives, especially in a Jug.

One amusing side effect of upward elevator trim is watching people chasing your dead a/c for ages as it loops and dives all by itself, a dead pilot at the controls. During my first few times online, I flew better dead than alive (blush!) Most amusing, in a macabre kind of way. (it's my nurse's snese of humour again I guess.)



cheers,
Tony
(flying as "wombat" on HL)


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oh yeah, and I'm a Whirlwind whiner too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 11:12 PM
I need help using trim. My plane goes everywhere but straight inflight and I cannot take off very well and I haven't even attempted landing yet. In the air it turns sideways, climbs, dives etc and this happens even straight after take-off and I end up crashing. Also as I try to take off along the runway I aways go in / kinf of direction.

Can anyone help me??? please.