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Aza404
04-02-2014, 03:01 PM
Dear Champions,

With the release of Heart of Nightmares, we wanted to revamp our Ranking & Matchmaking systems and push it to the next level. The primary goal of this new system is to accurately judge each player’s skills in order to match them with challenging but beatable opponents. Our secondary goal was to make a system tailor-made for better competitive gameplay. The actual ELO system will change in favor of new Ranks based on a player’s Match Making Rating (MMR). We have also created two different options for matching you against an opponent, Fast Matchmaking and Exact Matchmaking. You will find below more details about this new revamped system, provided by our Designers Guillaume “Gwigre” Borgia, Jared “jpsmasher” Pearson and our Technical Lead Yanick “Malthar” Houle.


MMR (Match Making Rating)

MMR is the key element in a player’s ranking. Every player has a global MMR that will start at 0 and while players will never concretely see their MMR, it will be used to determine their progression in game. Playing any type of ranked duel will affect your MMR. The algorithm behind this system was designed to make sure matchmaking reflects every player’s skills and abilities.

Ladder Tier

Player will be ranked on the ladder by Tiers. Progression in a Tier will be mainly influenced by a player’s Match Making Ranking (MMR, previously ELO). Ranked tiers will be named as follows: Recruit --> Squire --> Knight --> Commander --> Lord Commander --> Champion I --> Champion II --> Champion III.

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/article/matchmaking1.png

Tiers also overlap one another. A player that has just been promoted will already be around 10% of the way through their progression in the new Tier.

Promotion

From Tier 1 to 5 (Recruit through Lord Commander), players will be eligible for promotions when their MMR reaches the upper boundary limit of their current Tier. The next duel for that player will be crucial. If a player in this situation wins their next match, the player will gain the corresponding MMR and also be promoted to the next Tier. If a player loses their promotion match, the player will lose the corresponding MMR and must try to reach that tier’s MMR threshold again for another chance at promotion.

Upon receiving a promotion to a new Tier, players will see a reward screen pop-up once they return to the main menu from their promotion duel.

Demotion

If a player’s MMR is below the minimum in their tier at the end of a month, they may end up facing demoted. Players in the middle of a competitive season will need to play strong consistently to avoid being demoted.

Tier 6 and over

Starting with Tier 6 (Champion), the ranking of the player is no longer based on MMR but instead on Champion Points (CP). Champion Points are awarded after a match and are based on both players MMR. You can see your Champion Points in the Leaderboards, in your Profile, and also on the top bar.

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/article/matchmaking2.png


Champion Points Decay

From Tier 6 (Champion I) and above, players will experience decay in their Champion Points. Players that do not compete in a ranked duel for 7 days straight will see their CP decreased by 20. This decrease will continue until the player’s CP reaches a value of 0.


Leaderboard

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/article/matchmaking3.png

From Recruit to Lord Commander, players are ranked by their progression percentage into their Tier. Champion Points are nonexistent for these players. Instead of CP, players that are a part of these Tiers will see a “-“displayed next to their name in the Leaderboard.

From Champion I to III, players are ranked strictly by Champion Points. This means that a Champion I could potentially end up at a higher rank than a Champion III. For Champion I and II, progression is still displayed to let a player know if they will be promoted soon. For players that have reached Champion III, the highest attainable rank in the game, a “-“ is displayed in the progression column as that there is no higher Tier to progress to.

Resetting the ladder

Every month the ladder will be reset. Every player’s MMR will be placed back to the lowest possible MMR in their current Tier. Players will gain an amount of Bonus Point (BP) equal to the MMR lost.

If the player is already below a Tier’s lower boundary when the ladder is being reset, the player is demoted to the Tier that is appropriate for their MMR. The player’s MMR will be set back to that lower Tier’s lowest possible MMR. Additionally, the player will then gain an amount of Bonus Points equal to the MMR lost.

A player’s MMR is always capped at the lower boundary of the previous Tier. As such, a player can never be demoted more than 1 Tier per month.

Bonus Points

Bonus points will affect the way a player’s duels impact their MMR. If a player wins a duel while in possession of Bonus Points, the player’s MMR increase will be doubled and that amount of BP will be removed from the player’s Bonus Point total.

Up losing a duel while in possession of Bonus Points, the player’s MMR will remain unchanged. Instead, only the associated BP will be removed from the player’s account.

Jackpot tournament MMR

When a player joins a jackpot tournament, they will be given a Tournament MMR (TMMR) which will start at 0. TMMR will only be affected when playing in tournament duels.

MMR Decay

Similar to Champion Point decay, players lower than the Champion Tier will also experience MMR Decay. If a player hasn’t played a ranked duel in the last 7 days then their MMR will decrease by 2. This process will continue until the player’s MMR reaches the lower boundary of their current Tier.

Matching Players

When matching players together for a duel, the Matchmaking system pairs players together by two different pieces of criteria:

1- Player activity (Ranked game or Jackpot tournament)
2- Similar MMR

Matchmaking option

Players will be able to change the behavior of the Matchmaking system if they so choose. By default, everyone will be set to “Fast Matchmaking.” Players that prefer to only play against opponents with very similar MMR will have the option to use “Exact Matchmaking.”

Note: Rookie players (Tier 1) can only be matched against other Rookie players regardless of the matchmaking mode they select. We integrated this rule to make sure new players can learn by fighting against opponents of the skill level.

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/MM-DOC/article/matchmaking4.png

Exact Matchmaking

This option may take slightly longer to match you against an opponent. This matchmaking system will allow players to be matched very accurately against opponents with similar skills.

Fast (normal) Matchmaking

When using Fast Matchmaking, the system will first try to find an opponent using Exact Matchmaking. If an exact match cannot be found, the system will gradually increase the maximum allowed ranking difference until a good match for an opponent is found.


Enjoy!
Aza and the DoC Team

Alamand
04-02-2014, 03:49 PM
It's nice to finally have an option other than fast matchmaking, though it would be nice if there was an option to play a sound or have the icon in the taskbar flash when the queue popped in case you were alt tabbed while it searched.

Though one question that wasn't quite answered is will we all start from 0 mmr or will it just pretend there was a reset and use our current elo as our mmr?

LQDBrunt
04-02-2014, 04:08 PM
Is there going to be any form of unranked play ?

Playing the same deck for the sake of climbing the ladder gets boring pretty fast for some people, and players will be unwilling to try out new decks out of fear of losing the ladder points they gained so far.
Not everyone wants to play the highly competitive deck all the time, so if I want to play sub-par deck, for the sake of fun, and still want to keep my ladder points and mmr, will I be able to do so ?

malkorion
04-02-2014, 04:15 PM
Isn't this new system just as prone to abuse as the old one?

This whole MMR thing makes me think of Hearthstone.

Yeah, any space for casuals?

del170109032657
04-02-2014, 04:32 PM
Though one question that wasn't quite answered is will we all start from 0 mmr or will it just pretend there was a reset and use our current elo as our mmr?

When the HoN update hits the live server, current ELO will be converted to an appropriate MMR. As such, everyone will be assigned the appropriate Rank for their current MMR.

Blitz556
04-02-2014, 04:40 PM
Looks exciting! Specially big news for competitive and regular players.

Are you gonna rename the Champion II, Champion III ranks in the future? Maybe it's just me but having the top 3 ranks named champion feels a bit weird.

Alamand
04-02-2014, 04:53 PM
It'll be interesting to see what elo/mmr matches up to what rank. I'm assuming most of the 1500 crowd will end up in the champion tiers, though it'll be interesting to see how many can stay there with the elo floors gone.

Another interesting side effect of this will be after a few months we'll have a good idea as to just how many active players MMDoC has as all of the inactives slowly decay to the lowest possible mmr.

del170109032657
04-02-2014, 05:25 PM
Looks exciting! Specially big news for competitive and regular players.

Are you gonna rename the Champion II, Champion III ranks in the future? Maybe it's just me but having the top 3 ranks named champion feels a bit weird.

There's a reason for this. Stay tuned. :)

Jarema03
04-02-2014, 05:25 PM
great changes IMO!

zenithale
04-02-2014, 05:27 PM
Is there going to be any form of unranked play ?

Playing the same deck for the sake of climbing the ladder gets boring pretty fast for some people, and players will be unwilling to try out new decks out of fear of losing the ladder points they gained so far.
Not everyone wants to play the highly competitive deck all the time, so if I want to play sub-par deck, for the sake of fun, and still want to keep my ladder points and mmr, will I be able to do so ?
Huge +1.

A Ranking for each Faction/Hero would be welcome as well.

Enclase
04-02-2014, 05:42 PM
Looks like you've finally realized what this game needs most since...more than one year.

Good work, looking forward to it :)

del170109032657
04-02-2014, 05:52 PM
Is there going to be any form of unranked play ?

Playing the same deck for the sake of climbing the ladder gets boring pretty fast for some people, and players will be unwilling to try out new decks out of fear of losing the ladder points they gained so far.
Not everyone wants to play the highly competitive deck all the time, so if I want to play sub-par deck, for the sake of fun, and still want to keep my ladder points and mmr, will I be able to do so ?

Unless you are constantly losing duels until the end of a month, you won't have to worry about losing enough MMR to be demoted. Demotion would only happen at the end of a month and you can only drop a max of one Tier per month. There should be plenty of room for experimentation. We will, of course, be monitoring everything closely just in case.

Abimelechk
04-02-2014, 06:09 PM
This is great news. I am a new player with an ELO between 1100-1200 and I get sick and tired of playing 1500 ELO players constantly. Especially when I play against high ranked Hakeem Mill decks (or other control decks) in which there is usually only one player having any fun.

z0k1x2
04-02-2014, 06:19 PM
When the HoN update hit live server, current ELO will be converted to an appropriate MMR. As such, everyone will be assigned the appropriate Rank for their current MMR.

Whhhhhhhhy ? did you say that everyone will start from bottom t1 and how accurate conversion it will be to mmr when you have different data and do you have recorded game win factor for those games in elo system that you use to calculate mmr ?

It looks like putting stuff under the carpet and no one will notice that and then having glorious celebrations, I understand that high ranking players have their respect for their 1500+ elo but why not reset ladder and give those guys titles and baner, appropriate reward in tickets and pucks for achieving that and helping shape meta and new system and let us start new as it should be.

You talk about points degradation but what are the numbers on the ladder level t1, t2, t3, t........ ?

All in all I like ranking and matchmaking system :)

CrikRock
04-02-2014, 06:21 PM
This sounds good but i think this changes will be better if the players could play against each other( based on the new tiers) also in the Jackpot or Swiss tournaments.
Every tier with their own Jackpot tourney or Swiss.
Higher the tier, higher the prices.
Fun and glory for all.
Change the system with the new tiers(good decision) and not apply this changes in the Jackpot is not the best decision for the game that needs something of that kind.

Jarema03
04-02-2014, 06:47 PM
This sounds good but i think this changes will be better if the players could play against each other( based on the new tiers) also in the Jackpot or Swiss tournaments.
Every tier with their own Jackpot tourney or Swiss.
Higher the tier, higher the prices.
Fun and glory for all.
Change the system with the new tiers(good decision) and not apply this changes in the Jackpot is not the best decision for the game that needs something of that kind.
I totaly disagree. Especially withj jackpots.
Jackpots should be a place where all tiers of players meet

z0k1x2
04-02-2014, 06:52 PM
I totaly disagree. Especially withj jackpots.
Jackpots should be a place where all tiers of players meet

Eksploatation alert ! eeeeek eeeeeeek eeeeeeek

Alamand
04-02-2014, 06:53 PM
Every tier with their own Jackpot tourney or Swiss.
Higher the tier, higher the prices.

That has to be the worst idea I've heard in awhile. Their goal is to try and eliminate or at least reduce elo/mmr dropping, not encourage it even more than before.

sir_z
04-02-2014, 06:55 PM
I think Tiered Swiss with tiered rewards could be a good idea, and assuming you gain MMR in Swiss games it's not too prone to abuse, but it would dilute JP too much. JP needs a large player base to make sense. Also, as a selfish side note, I love JP as a place where I can play subpar decks to farm achievements and get matched with people who are an even match for the deck I'm currently playing rather than my overall performance.

Alamand
04-02-2014, 07:32 PM
I think JP makes less sense the more people that play it, if even half the people that were losing gold playing JP stopped playing it eventually no one would be playing JP, the fact that so many keep playing is somewhat worrying in what it implies about the general decision making ability of humanity.

As far as any mmr gains in swiss, you could easily go into a few ladder games after a swiss and lose as many games as you wanted to insure you dropped a league and got easier and easier swiss opponents.

z0k1x2
04-02-2014, 08:23 PM
My addition to this announcement Gorillaz - Clint Eastwood :P

MT...
04-02-2014, 08:24 PM
Hello Aza404

Can someone in champion be demoted?

If Champion Points (CP) are based on Match Making Rank (MMR), and the player achieves Champion status no longer accrue MMR, does this mean everyone in champion tier has the same MMR. And if so does that not mean the CP a player will receive will always be the same value.

If the value of CP gain is different for each game, how is this determined?

When mention that champions with CP will experience decay, does that also include losing battles to other champions or the like. And if not, outside of not playing for several days how else would the players in champion tier lose CP.

torakami
04-02-2014, 10:04 PM
i worked so hard to get 1500+ and now you tell me i will be starting from the bottom again? Will there be some "bonus" for players above 500, 1000, 1500? Anyway, the system you want to implement seems decent.

del170109032657
04-02-2014, 10:11 PM
i worked so hard to get 1500+ and now you tell me i will be starting from the bottom again? Will there be some "bonus" for players above 500, 1000, 1500? Anyway, the system you want to implement seems decent.

As stated before, current ELO will be converted to an appropriate MMR. You will be assigned the appropriate Rank for your current MMR.

Also, Bonus points are also a thing in this new system. Check out the Bonus Points section of the original post. :)

ulpsz
04-02-2014, 10:32 PM
as someone mentioned before..WE NEED A CASUAL PLAY MODE...

not everybody likes to win all the time...grinding/playing to win is so boring and feels so sensless ..

i for ex stopped playing any tournaments when I got all the cards that i needed...reastarted now to farm for expansion..

my goal in a cardgame is to have fun with any deck that comes to mind no matter how bad/uncompetitive it is...

Uraxor
04-02-2014, 11:01 PM
as someone mentioned before..WE NEED A CASUAL PLAY MODE...

not everybody likes to win all the time...grinding/playing to win is so boring and feels so sensless ..

i for ex stopped playing any tournaments when I got all the cards that i needed...reastarted now to farm for expansion..

my goal in a cardgame is to have fun with any deck that comes to mind no matter how bad/uncompetitive it is...

As written above, you only lose your Rank at the end of month, if you are at its bottom %.
So you can keep freely playing whatever you want - given you're content with your current Rank and don't aim to progress any further - and only make sure you win few [don't know how many] games towards end of the month to prevent getting demoted.

At least that's how it works to my understanding.

Turbo-Fangz
04-02-2014, 11:13 PM
Jason

Please...please go back to the developers and get them to understand their needs to be multiple profiles to participate in. Its mutually benefical for the players as well as the company. I don't like the idea of a "casual" game, just simply give us a primary and secondary profile that we can play games under which have seperate rankings. Clearly this would take abit of time to flesh out but its a no brainer.

You have MANY possible hero's and deck options out there. No matter what you guys "think", most players are not going to trying out new combinations alot once the dust settles especially when they have to work so hard at the higher ranks and play top level competition. But on the other side, casual is such a hodge podge mix of people its tough to consistently practice and tweak.

Solution? 2 profiles....that way people can use their second and experiment and progress with it without being stuck in the top competition but still feel like they are accomplishing something. The more people experiment, the more they will want different cards which will have the residule benefit of additional revenue from at least some of them. I know i dropped $100 one day trying to make a deck that has alot of unused epic cards from sancturary etc. Granted it didn't turn out as I had thought but I also got fluster as I was almost 1400 elo and its not fun to try and learn/tweak a deck against some of the better people playing the game.

Think about it....you guys can't claim to listen to customers and go into this blind thinking almost ANY of your customers wouldn't be supportive of another profile. I do like the idea of faction based.....being able to see rankings of not only the top players but also top based rankings of specific factions would drive MORE competition, and encourage more competitive people to try and play more deck types to rank high on multiple factions etc. Thus...more revenue drip to you guys. Best of all? It is such a simple thing to alter and track in your database. An intern could set it up in no time, then you just need to touch up a few output display screens and boom, more money and happier customers.

Turbo

bluekiitos
04-03-2014, 12:05 AM
I really like the new system, but I have a few questions.

Let's say I play against someone who surrenders as soon as the game starts.
Do I gain MMR? Does he lose MMR? Do I get any gold?

Also, how do different ranks influence the rewards we receive after each duel?

Revalon
04-03-2014, 12:29 AM
I'm really looking forward to this.

As I understand it, with those Champion Points there will still be a way to for top players to compete for the highest rating, right?

I have just one question: if your MMR is low, will you be warned that you're going to be demoted, or will you have to guess if you will stay or go down?

Haraguro_Megane
04-03-2014, 01:13 AM
Seriously but Champion I, II, III was the best DoC devs could think of? ~__~ How about something more interesting like:

GOD
^
Archangel
^
Angel

or

Grand Master
^
Master
^
Champion

or

Emperor
^
King
^
Duke

There is so many things I can think of I don't care but choose plz something that sound more Epic & it's not the same word 3 times over can't u see how bland & boring that sound? ~__~

Also plz create an *Unranked* Testing/Practice Mode for ppl that want to try new decks/strategies with random ppl.

Something last some ppl suggest to create specific rank boards for each faction I like a lot the idea of that I would like to know my rank among all other players that play my faction so I approve this idea & it's something I definitely would like to see implemented on DoC also I think it would be nice to add some gifts for the TOP 20 each month for example gold rewards for TOP 20 to 11 spots (a good idea is 9500 the last one & +1000 for each place above it up to 18500 for place 11 enough for a booster), WC for TOP 10 to 6 spots (for example 2 WC for all of them or the same amount of WC u get from 2 boosters), & packs for TOP 5 players a good gift could be:

1st Spot: BOX
2nd Spot: 5 Packs
3rd Spot: 4 Packs
4th Spot: 3 Packs
5th Spot: 2 Packs

That sounds very nice to me & I'm sure people would love it very much if UBI ever decide to do something like that, but for that to happen UBI must first stop be stingy & decide to rewards people more for all this time they spent on this game & make it more fun for them to keep on playing because u know when players start to compete for some reward then every game would be more exciting & players would start playing more seriously, & in the end I don't think UBI would go bankrupt if they decide to give some rewards to the TOP players of their game once a month or am I wrong on that?

GenericManGuy
04-03-2014, 07:07 AM
When the HoN update hits the live server, current ELO will be converted to an appropriate MMR. As such, everyone will be assigned the appropriate Rank for their current MMR.

This is a very bad idea. Just because someone is top tier under current circumstances, doesn't mean they'll remain top tier once the new cards come out. If you were immediately put into the highest ranking you would be sodomized by people with the brand new cards, unless you bought the new cards yourself. Is this some kind of extortion racket under the thin guise of 'marketing'? "Buy the new cards, because if you don't you will lose every game you play for the next few weeks, until you naturally decline to your appropriate ranking."

Well now that the cat is out of the bag, what strategies are there to deal with this? What base one decks are there that can face off against HoN decks? This is seriously a David and Goliath scenario we are being put in. Here's a new 'marketing' ploy: sell lube.

malkorion
04-03-2014, 07:16 AM
The only time non-paying players would lose against paying players is in the case of power creep.

GenericManGuy
04-03-2014, 07:18 AM
I can assure you that is an acute probability.

z0k1x2
04-03-2014, 07:55 AM
"MMR is the key element in a player’s ranking. Every player has a global MMR that will start at 0 and while players will never concretely see their MMR, it will be used to determine their progression in game. Playing any type of ranked duel will affect your MMR. The algorithm behind this system was designed to make sure matchmaking reflects every player’s skills and abilities."

"When the HoN update hits the live server, current ELO will be converted to an appropriate MMR. As such, everyone will be assigned the appropriate Rank for their current MMR."

Well than

Yeah, ha ha!
Finally someone let me out of my cage
Now, time for me is nothing 'cause I'm counting no age
Now I couldn't be there
Now you shouldn't be scared
I'm good at repairs
And I'm under each snare

Intangible
Bet you didn't think so I command you to
Panoramic view
Look I'll make it all manageable
Pick and choose
Sit and lose
All you different crews

Chicks and dudes
Who you think is really kickin' tunes?
***** are you gettin' down in the picture tube
Like you lit the fuse
You think it's fictional
Mystical? Maybe
Spiritual
Hearable
What appears in you is a clearer view 'cause you're too crazy
Lifeless
To know the definition for what life is
Priceless
For you because I put you on the hype ****
You like it?
Gunsmokin' righteous with one toke
Psychic among those
Possess you with one go
The essence the basics
Without it you make it
Allow me to make this
Childlike in nature
Rhythm
You have it or you don't that's a fallacy
I'm in them
Every sprouting tree
Every child apiece
Every cloud you see
You see with your eyes
I see destruction and demise
Corruption in disguise
From this ****in' enterprise
Now I'm sucking to your lies
Through Russ, though not his muscles but the percussion he provides
With me as a guide
But y'all can see me now 'cause you don't see with your eye
You perceive with your mind
That's the inner
So I'mma stick around with Russ and be a mentor
With a few rhymes so mother ****ers
Remember where the thought is
I brought all this
So you can survive when law is lawless
Feelings, sensations that you thought were dead
No squealing, remember
(That it's all in your head)
:)

malkorion
04-03-2014, 08:14 AM
I can assure you that is an acute probability.

That new Zefiria looks pretty busted to me. It will 100% be a chase epic of the set.

z0k1x2
04-03-2014, 08:32 AM
Casual play and point of viewing things song says it all :
System Of A Down - Aerials
Become words are hardly getting somewhere.

gabusan
04-03-2014, 12:55 PM
This is very interesting, but can we get any information on how exactly being in one rank or another will affect rewards per duel? I dont care much about ranks or winning, just having fun playing some cards, but if being in a lower rank means significantly crippled rewards, maybe it is time to move on to another, less stressful game.

npavcec
04-03-2014, 01:54 PM
I agree. We need to hear more about XP/gold reward modifiers per tier.

edit: also, whats up with this "more minutes in game = more gold" nonsense which we heard from the producers letter?

minddrifter
04-03-2014, 04:48 PM
Huge +1.

A Ranking for each Faction/Hero would be welcome as well.

This is a brilliant idea imo. At the very least for each faction. I have a good amount of cards and, for the most part, am probably equally skilled with each faction now but playing a brand new deck from another faction will just get you slaughtered if you flew through the ranks with a good Kelthor deck for example (the most common way to fly through the ELO/MMR it seems). Or perhaps maybe use this method until the Champion tiers. At the same time at the very upper levels distinguishing different factions/heroes might lead to a lot less variety. At the lower tiers however, I think this would be an excellent idea!

Lorkak
04-03-2014, 05:29 PM
Is the MMR going to be the same for Open and Standard? I think that would be a mistake as new players might have a decent BS2 deck but not a good one in Open and could not compete in Open without losing MMR into their Standard format MMR

jkk89
04-03-2014, 09:57 PM
I want the ladder reset :( I want to grind my way to the TOP again and I want to see all this 1500 ppl do the same!:cool:

Revalon
04-03-2014, 10:03 PM
I want the ladder reset :( I want to grind my way to the TOP again and I want to see all this 1500 ppl do the same!:cool:

NOO!!!

I just did 1500, don't wanna lose that :(

xD


No, for myself, I'd also be all for a complete ladder reset.
The problem is that it would be extremely frustrating for newer players to be matched with you top players and even random noobs with relatively big collection like me.

GenericManGuy
04-03-2014, 11:19 PM
It wouldn't be frustrating that way. Top players are a small minority.

It will be frustrating this way, however, because unless a top player intends to drop one hundred dollars on HoN packs on the first day, he will be way out of his league. He and everyone else will be punching bags for the so-called rich kids who buy the latest cards as soon as they come out. Those players can expect to lose, lose, lose, one hundred games in a row, until they're back in scrub league, and only then can they begin to climb normally. This is about to become the worst massacre in history.

AmineM2
04-03-2014, 11:29 PM
I just did 1500,

Congratulations :-)

Pjovejas
04-04-2014, 07:24 AM
I'm not sure if I like that new system...
The problem exist for the players like me. I never cared my ELO, I hit that 1500 but it was not my goal. I like just process of playing various decks that are nor very competetive often. So you may say, that if I don't care ladder then it is not a problem for me all those resets and other things. BUT... it means that majority of other players will be mad to go as high as possible every month... that means "even more Kelthors" (or whatever the best deck will be) in each game and this won't be very interesting from the casual point of view.
It doesn't matter that we are told that people "most likely" (yeah, it still unclear) won't drop below their current elo if they will play only casual games. We know the nature of people: large part of the community will start chasing the higher ranks/titles/whatever and it seems like it will decrease the meta variety and that means interesting games.
I just hope, that it is not the truth...

Gouster
04-04-2014, 09:39 AM
It wouldn't be frustrating that way. Top players are a small minority.

It will be frustrating this way, however, because unless a top player intends to drop one hundred dollars on HoN packs on the first day, he will be way out of his league. He and everyone else will be punching bags for the so-called rich kids who buy the latest cards as soon as they come out. Those players can expect to lose, lose, lose, one hundred games in a row, until they're back in scrub league, and only then can they begin to climb normally. This is about to become the worst massacre in history.

Top players will never be out of their league unless they face other top players that have paid money. By top players I really mean top players. Not just people above 1500. Players that reached 1500 by copying whatever deck was op at that time are hardly top players.
They will still have a big edge over everyone especially in the early days, where payers will have to rely on their own deckbuilding skills.

Revalon
04-04-2014, 12:12 PM
Congratulations :-)

Thanks :)

dobwen60
04-04-2014, 01:44 PM
It wouldn't be frustrating that way. Top players are a small minority.

It will be frustrating this way, however, because unless a top player intends to drop one hundred dollars on HoN packs on the first day, he will be way out of his league. He and everyone else will be punching bags for the so-called rich kids who buy the latest cards as soon as they come out. Those players can expect to lose, lose, lose, one hundred games in a row, until they're back in scrub league, and only then can they begin to climb normally. This is about to become the worst massacre in history.

I'll put my money on the player who knows how to play the cards they have vs. the player who has all the cards and doesn't know how to play them. There are no "I win" cards in this game, and good players can punish you for making mistakes. Now, I suspect some top players will make sure they get 4 of that new Rakshasa and roll over a bunch of other top players with a new Myranda deck that will probably draw Kelthorish hate early on, but you still need the combination of the cards in the hands of someone who knows how to use them properly. Also, it's not like there aren't promising looking decks with just the BS2 cards. I could easily build a Seria deck out of just BS2 cards that I'd be pretty confident in taking into Swisses and JP's once BS2 comes out.

If not having all of the latest cards immediately meant auto-losing to those that did, then HoN would have to be the worst power-creep release of DoC history.

SpatulaOfDoom
04-04-2014, 04:39 PM
This is awesome, glad to see this finally get implemented :D

sir_z
04-08-2014, 07:56 PM
Now that the server is down and there's no way to game the system, want to let us know about what the ELO--> Tier ranges will be?

gabusan
04-09-2014, 02:53 AM
everyone else will be punching bags for the so-called rich kids who buy the latest cards as soon as they come out.

Good luck for these so called rich kids building new decks with the new cards. As I understand it, by the time competitive new decks are designed with the new cards, the new set will be already available with gold. If a rich kid comes up with an original design with his new cards all by himself, I will be glad to play against him with my old cards. The experience will be certainly more interesting than playing again against Ingatius Throne of renewal or Hakeem mill. If i am going to be crushed, at least do it with something new I have not seen before.

dojadoug
04-10-2014, 05:21 AM
Starting with Tier 6 (Champion), the ranking of the player is no longer based on MMR but instead on Champion Points (CP). Champion Points are awarded after a match and are based on both players MMR. You can see your Champion Points in the Leaderboards, in your Profile, and also on the top bar.

From Champion I to III, players are ranked strictly by Champion Points. This means that a Champion I could potentially end up at a higher rank than a Champion III. For Champion I and II, progression is still displayed to let a player know if they will be promoted soon. For players that have reached Champion III, the highest attainable rank in the game, a - is displayed in the progression column as that there is no higher Tier to progress to.


This new system sounds legit, but I'm a little confused about a few things. From what I understand:

Once you reach "Champion," you can only advance with "Champion Points," not MMR. This would seem to indicate that a certain number of Champion points are needed to go from, say, Champion I to Champion II. This would also mean that to drop from Champion II to Champion I would require losing enough Champion Points.

Question: So how could a Champion I ranked player end up with more Champion Points than a Champion III ranked player?

gabusan
04-10-2014, 03:42 PM
How do the rewards work? Once you are champion, do you get maximum possible rewards, or do different levels of champion get different rewards? How different are these? Are rewards for daily missions different for each player, or do all players in the same rank get the same rewards?

The rank affects only rewards for daily missions or all rewards you get for playing, including gold obtained in each ranked match you fight?

npavcec
04-10-2014, 03:54 PM
How do the rewards work? Once you are champion, do you get maximum possible rewards, or do different levels of champion get different rewards? How different are these? Are rewards for daily missions different for each player, or do all players in the same rank get the same rewards?

I am in the progress of tracking my game outcomes and rewards and my blunt empirical analysis shows that they really cranked the Time_Spent_In_Battle modifier to the roof. I had some winning games under 3-4 minutes earn me up to 3 times less gold and XP than games which lasted 15+ minutes and which I lost! People are not stupid - this game will ultimately turn into the alt-tab fest - mark my words.

Absolutely no incentive to play for the win and to play sharp. Competitive format?! Meh, give me a break..

Vengyre
04-10-2014, 05:08 PM
I dont get the progression, I am stuck at Champion 2 100% for a few games. What must I do to advance?

malkorion
04-10-2014, 05:58 PM
I have a few questions regarding the Ranking system.

Currently, I am @ Champion I ranking with 25% progression, and 5 points.

1) What is the minimum amount of games that I have to play in order to stay in my rank?

2) How do I advance to the next Tier?

3) Maybe it's just me - isn't this like a Jackpot minigame with the Champion rankings?

TrueHolstt
04-10-2014, 08:01 PM
@Aza404

When I try to play with a new hero I loose my champion points. Noone wants to play practice duels with me because I'm above their level.

I thought that playing tournaments would not effect my champion points, but it does.

Any suggestions as to how I can get some practise without risking my chp points on an unfinished new deck?

dojadoug
04-10-2014, 09:46 PM
I am in the progress of tracking my game outcomes and rewards and my blunt empirical analysis shows that they really cranked the Time_Spent_In_Battle modifier to the roof. I had some winning games under 3-4 minutes earn me up to 3 times less gold and XP than games which lasted 15+ minutes and which I lost! People are not stupid - this game will ultimately turn into the alt-tab fest - mark my words.

Absolutely no incentive to play for the win and to play sharp. Competitive format?! Meh, give me a break..



When I try to play with a new hero I loose my champion points. Noone wants to play practice duels with me because I'm above their level.

I thought that playing tournaments would not effect my champion points, but it does.


I see now (and have experienced) several of the complications addressed in these previous quotes.

Gold and Time: In games where I win in roughly 5-6 minutes I gain ~350 gold. I played a really long game, roughly 25 minutes, and got 1250 gold. Granted, it may still work out that winning quick games is slightly better, but these samples don't provide enough information. It is very discouraging, however, to win a game fast and get less gold than you would have under the old system. I guess the overall effect is that less gold is given out now that there isn't a minimum of 500 for a win.

Rankings: This problem begins with a quote by Jason Paradise in one of the recent Twitch feeds: "You definitely want to be playing at the Champion level." The comment was in reference to the new gold system: The higher the rank you play at, the more gold you get for your games. The purpose was to prevent players from intentionally dropping in rank to face easier opponents and the underlying goal cannot be disagreed with. But the effect is to highly discourage anyone from playing with an inferior (often experimental) deck. Then, factor in daily quests, which often require playing with inferior decks when they require wins with a faction you're not strong in. Additionally, now that there are two formats, there is much experimentation to be done in the new Standard format. As the system currently stands, I'm encouraged to keep playing Open format with the same strong decks as before because rank matters too much.

To begin with, there should probably be a separate rank for Open format and Standard format. Imagine a new player who spends money and grinds and quickly collects BS2 and HoN. He is highly successful at Standard format and achieves a high rank. Then he goes to Open format and suddenly is matched based on his Standard format rank and gets slaughtered. A reverse situation is also true. Someone like myself has some strong Open format decks, but doesn't have much HoN or necessarily all the Open format cards that are needed for a strong Standard format deck. Yet when I attempt to experiment in Standard format, I both get matched above my Standard format strength and, after I lose, take a loss to my overall ranking (which again, really, really matters now). As it stands, I'm being discouraged from joining the new meta and instead staying in Open format.

TrueHolstt
04-10-2014, 10:44 PM
Hello devs team!!

dojadog said:

The higher the rank you play at, the more gold you get for your games. The purpose was to prevent players from intentionally dropping in rank to face easier opponents and the underlying goal cannot be disagreed with.

Yes! And this is why champion points is a good idea. And as a consequence champion points belong to Ranked Duels, but please, let us have the daily tournaments not only as a serious battlefield but also as a "play"ground for testing new decks.

gabusan
04-11-2014, 12:01 PM
Any suggestions as to how I can get some practise without risking my chp points on an unfinished new deck?

Maybe you could try new, experimental decks in the campaign matches instead of using trusted designs.

TrueHolstt
04-11-2014, 02:34 PM
Maybe you could try new, experimental decks in the campaign matches instead of using trusted designs.

A good advice, but unfortunately I have already done that with my experimental Haven deck, and there are no more campaigns left for that faction.

Since I don't want to loose any more chp points I will have to do it in a slightly more boring way from now on: make copies of strong opponents' decks and take it from there. I can live with that, but for me one of the interesting things has been to think out a deck and then, by trial and error, find out if my ideas were all right, good or very silly.:)

malkorion
04-11-2014, 05:38 PM
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q771/codename47deni/Ranking_zps46ae740e.jpg

So when and how do I advance to the next Tier?

sir_z
04-11-2014, 06:18 PM
Once you're in a tier that you can't easily get to the next one, your champion points/progression don't really matter until the end of the month when you get your final ranking. Until then, you're more then free to experiment or play whatever you want with no consequences so long as you make your push for rank as we near the month's end.

neperios
04-12-2014, 03:55 PM
From Tier 6 (Champion I) and above, players will experience decay in their Champion Points.
Players that do not compete in a ranked duel for 7 days straight will see their CP decreased by 20.
This decrease will continue until the player’s CP reaches a value of 0.


Similar to Champion Point decay, players lower than the Champion Tier will also experience MMR Decay.
If a player hasn’t played a ranked duel in the last 7 days then their MMR will decrease by 2.
This process will continue until the player’s MMR reaches the lower boundary of their current Tier.

If someone doesn't compete in a ranked duel for more than 7 days then
how often will the CP and MMR be decreased ?
Daily? Every 7 days?

How many points will be decreased every time?

Vengyre
04-12-2014, 04:58 PM
Can I even drop from Champion III?

gabusan
04-12-2014, 06:14 PM
This is totally esoteric. I have more champion points than a guy with the same rank as me, more duels won, even better win streak. Yet my % porgression is way lower than his. What is the explanation for this, arent chapion points supposed to determine if you are closer to being promoted? Because if progression toward promotion is ruled by a different criteria than champion points, what is the whole point of getting champion points in the first place?

Can someone please explain this? I am reading the initial announcement over and over and I still dont get it.

malkorion
04-12-2014, 06:51 PM
Believe me, I don't understand this system either. I don't know what's more important. My progress or my CP?

npavcec
04-12-2014, 07:57 PM
This is totally esoteric. I have more champion points than a guy with the same rank as me, more duels won, even better win streak. Yet my % porgression is way lower than his. What is the explanation for this, arent chapion points supposed to determine if you are closer to being promoted? Because if progression toward promotion is ruled by a different criteria than champion points, what is the whole point of getting champion points in the first place?

Can someone please explain this? I am reading the initial announcement over and over and I still dont get it.

+1.

I started to completely ignore the ranking system. My daily quests screw with it too much. I don't care nor want to be competitive nor climb the ladder. Is there any ladder at all? How much are rewards bigger in Champion 2 and Champion 3, anyways?

They should have just plain leave true ELO system per tier and swap top and bottom 10% of people in each tier once per month. It would work much better.

Also, every game in EVERY format being counted in the MMR does not help at all. Wasnt there supposed to be a big deal that new competitive format will be STANDARD and standard only?!

npavcec
04-13-2014, 01:37 PM
My latest theory based on empirical observations of Progression attribute is that it has NOTHING to do with wins, loses, champion points nor formats! It just plain counts the TIME you spend in your games. If it is true, this is the worse idea in ranking systems I've ever seen in my life.. and I've seen plenty.. :)

Also, I'm not sure if it has any form of decay - maybe if you don't play a game for 24 hours or something like that, it starts going backwards. I presume so. Something is mentioned about that.

I have yet to check if surrendering a match affects it in any way. If someone does it before me - please post results.

So, to sum up a theory - 100% progression + next match win = you are goin Tier up. Low Champion points at the end of the month = you are going Tier down.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

malkorion
04-13-2014, 10:29 PM
My latest theory based on empirical observations of Progression attribute is that it has NOTHING to do with wins, loses, champion points nor formats! It just plain counts the TIME you spend in your games. If it is true, this is the worse idea in ranking systems I've ever seen in my life.. and I've seen plenty.. :)

Also, I'm not sure if it has any form of decay - maybe if you don't play a game for 24 hours or something like that, it starts going backwards. I presume so. Something is mentioned about that.

I have yet to check if surrendering a match affects it in any way. If someone does it before me - please post results.

So, to sum up a theory - 100% progression + next match win = you are goin Tier up. Low Champion points at the end of the month = you are going Tier down.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The progression thing only works for lower tiers. In Champion tiers, CP should be the deciding factor. It's just not clear to me how.

In lower tiers, you have to progress to around ~100% where you will have to win the final match in order to advance.

gabusan
04-13-2014, 11:42 PM
It cannot be based in time, because the more I play, the lower progression gets. But my champion points are actually increasing. Here is hoping they will explain how this thing works, because right now, it makes 0 sense to me.

malkorion
04-16-2014, 09:05 AM
I've reached Champion II, and keep getting CP after games, but my progress is stuck at 0%. Why?

PukinggoB
04-16-2014, 11:39 AM
Maybe you can grind one level in a month and no more

malkorion
04-16-2014, 12:15 PM
Maybe you can grind one level in a month and no more

I think it's the ladder reset that is going to happen eventually. I guess my rank doesn't matter now. I can do whatever I want. :P

TrueHolstt
04-19-2014, 12:52 PM
Aza said in OP:

Bonus Points

Bonus points will affect the way a player’s duels impact their MMR. If a player wins a duel while in possession of Bonus Points, the player’s MMR increase will be doubled and that amount of BP will be removed from the player’s Bonus Point total.

Up losing a duel while in possession of Bonus Points, the player’s MMR will remain unchanged. Instead, only the associated BP will be removed from the player’s account.

- - - - -

It seems to be the other way round!

Up losing a duel while in possession of Bonus Points, the player’s Bonus Points will remain unchanged. Instead, only the associated MMR will be removed from the player’s account.

(Stats from MMDoc replayer confirm this observation)

:confused:

:confused:

TrueHolstt
04-19-2014, 09:02 PM
Aza said in OP:

Bonus Points

Bonus points will affect the way a player’s duels impact their MMR. If a player wins a duel while in possession of Bonus Points, the player’s MMR increase will be doubled and that amount of BP will be removed from the player’s Bonus Point total.

Up losing a duel while in possession of Bonus Points, the player’s MMR will remain unchanged. Instead, only the associated BP will be removed from the player’s account.

- - - - -

It seems to be the other way round!

Up losing a duel while in possession of Bonus Points, the player’s Bonus Points will remain unchanged. Instead, only the associated MMR will be removed from the player’s account.

(Stats from MMDoc replayer confirm this observation)

:confused:

:confused:

Correction: Upon losing a duel the player's MMR will drop like ELO dropped before BS2. Bonus Points will drop at a much slower rate after successive losses.

Kurency
04-20-2014, 12:53 AM
I want the ladder reset :( I want to grind my way to the TOP again and I want to see all this 1500 ppl do the same!:cool:

I'm agree with you and feel the same way.

jhypheezy22
04-26-2014, 04:00 AM
I am confused about the new ranking system because of the points and then they have a progression percentage....I just want to know how many cp points do I need to get from champion 2..to that promotion match for champion 3?...also I beat jkkk89 in the jackpot tournament today, but I lost to space elephant in a normal ranked duel haaaa...he musta been hacking

rcorpCZ
04-26-2014, 02:02 PM
There si no connection between champion points and progression. If you look at the leaderboard you can see that players with similar CP have to totally different progression percentages.

http://i.nahraj.to/f/FtM.jpg

Vengyre
04-26-2014, 02:07 PM
Why is MMR even hidden if we can see it through manager/replays anyway?

Revalon
04-26-2014, 03:43 PM
I don't use a replay manager, so i can't take a look, but is it really the mmr or just the old elo that was not removed but just serves no purpose anymore?