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View Full Version : Change Arianas ability for BS 2



ulpsz
03-25-2014, 11:06 AM
well I have touched this subject countless times ..and the only logical explanation for me is lazy desighn...

as it has not been very strong so far most people have not requested it changed..no matter how illogical or unbalanced it is...seems people care only about stuff that they lose against nothing else ...

so I propose that it affects only SPECIFIC NEGATIVE COUNTERS (so far only cripple and poison)

Aegon82
03-25-2014, 01:25 PM
Tough choice...

- Flavor point of view: it makes no sense to affect enrage or fiery counters.
- Power point of view: affecting ALL counters actually makes the ability playable sometimes. Otherwise is useless most of the time, only used by new players who use many infect creatures.

Also, the "solution" is a bit hard. What is a negative counter? Poison and cripple are easy to understand, but they could make a new kind of counter not as intuitive as those.
Maybe "affect only counters from necro sources?".

Shambell
03-25-2014, 03:05 PM
- Flavor point of view: it makes no sense to affect enrage or fiery counters.

why so ?

Aegon82
03-25-2014, 03:09 PM
why so ?

Well, obviously I'm not in the head of the one who design her ability, but I guess the initial idea was to kill poisoned creatures.
Cripple came after that, but it also makes sense, killing weakened creatures.

Killing enraged creatures... I can't think of a good reason flavorwise.

Also it is a much more clean ability if it stays as it is, affecting EVERY counter.

Shambell
03-25-2014, 03:21 PM
Well, obviously I'm not in the head of the one who design her ability, but I guess the initial idea was to kill poisoned creatures.
Cripple came after that, but it also makes sense, killing weakened creatures.

Killing enraged creatures... I can't think of a good reason flavorwise.

Enrage existed also since the beginning. And Ariana's power was not really described as linked to poison but counters since the beginning.
I see it no a kill to a poisoned creature but a kill to a marked creature.

Ariana of the Severed Fate.
She's a nethermancer and not some vanilla necromancer.
And she dabbles in Prime(Void) Magic.
Magic specialized in the obliteration or disparition of things. And Prime (Space/Time/Destiny/the rest) can into counter interaction after all.:rolleyes:
As the source of the ability of Akane, Mourner of Lost Memories seems to be the Void (or Kieran's, or Gazal).
So seems to be the source of Ariana's.
When a counter is put on a creature, it marks it and its fate for good or for bad.
In all these cases, Ariana can use her power and link to the Void to literally cut this fate, the counter behaving like a beacon.

svilleneuve
03-25-2014, 04:56 PM
Enrage existed also since the beginning. And Ariana's power was not really described as linked to poison since the beginning.
I see it no a kill to a poisoned creature but a kill to a marked creature.

Ariana of the Severed Fate.
She's a nethermancer and not some vanilla necromancer.
And she dabble in Prime(Void) Magic.
Magic specialized in the obliteration or disparition of things. And Prime (Space/Time/Destiny/the rest) can into counter interaction after all.:rolleyes:
As the source of the ability of Akane, Mourner of Lost Memories seems to be the Void (or Kieran's, or Gazal).
So seems to be the source of Ariana's.
When a counter is put on a creature, it mark it and its fate for good or for bad.
In all these cases, Ariana can use her power and link to the Void to literally cut this fate, the counter behaving like a beacon.

Couldn't have said it better.

We decided to stick with what she has now because it ensured that her ability would be useful and not narrow. You can always play around it too.

LQDBrunt
03-25-2014, 05:24 PM
Enrage existed also since the beginning. And Ariana's power was not really described as linked to poison since the beginning.
I see it no a kill to a poisoned creature but a kill to a marked creature.

Ariana of the Severed Fate.
She's a nethermancer and not some vanilla necromancer.
And she dabble in Prime(Void) Magic.
Magic specialized in the obliteration or disparition of things. And Prime (Space/Time/Destiny/the rest) can into counter interaction after all.:rolleyes:
As the source of the ability of Akane, Mourner of Lost Memories seems to be the Void (or Kieran's, or Gazal).
So seems to be the source of Ariana's.
When a counter is put on a creature, it mark it and its fate for good or for bad.
In all these cases, Ariana can use her power and link to the Void to literally cut this fate, the counter behaving like a beacon.


+1

Never understood obsession some people have for Ariana and her ability.
It was never a problem balance-wise (not even for Enrage Kelthor), and lore-wise you can explain it just like you did, and it feels much better and deeper than it would if it applied only to poison/crippling counters.

Aegon82
03-25-2014, 05:39 PM
Enrage existed also since the beginning. And Ariana's power was not really described as linked to poison since the beginning.
I see it no a kill to a poisoned creature but a kill to a marked creature.

Ariana of the Severed Fate.
She's a nethermancer and not some vanilla necromancer.
And she dabble in Prime(Void) Magic.
Magic specialized in the obliteration or disparition of things. And Prime (Space/Time/Destiny/the rest) can into counter interaction after all.:rolleyes:
As the source of the ability of Akane, Mourner of Lost Memories seems to be the Void (or Kieran's, or Gazal).
So seems to be the source of Ariana's.
When a counter is put on a creature, it mark it and its fate for good or for bad.
In all these cases, Ariana can use her power and link to the Void to literally cut this fate, the counter behaving like a beacon.

Never thought of her like that.
Killing a marked creature.
I just love it, and that's exactly what I was looking for, a flavorful reason.

Just voted to stay as it is.
Thanks for opening my mind. :)

AmineM2
03-25-2014, 06:25 PM
Never thought of her like that.
Killing a marked creature.
I just love it, and that's exactly what I was looking for, a flavorful reason.

Just voted to stay as it is.
Thanks for opening my mind. :)

Seconded :-)

malkorion
03-25-2014, 06:31 PM
Is there a website where we could read about the lore? I don't know anything about these heroes.

Shambell
03-25-2014, 09:12 PM
There is some but the published informations about the Void Heroes isn't significant.
You have some info on the official site like here (http://www.duelofchampions.com/en/news-events/details.aspx?newsid=21&title=Five_Towers), in game but also in other games like Heroes VI.

z0k1x2
03-25-2014, 09:37 PM
Enrage existed also since the beginning. And Ariana's power was not really described as linked to poison but counters since the beginning.
I see it no a kill to a poisoned creature but a kill to a marked creature.

Ariana of the Severed Fate.
She's a nethermancer and not some vanilla necromancer.
And she dabbles in Prime(Void) Magic.
Magic specialized in the obliteration or disparition of things. And Prime (Space/Time/Destiny/the rest) can into counter interaction after all.:rolleyes:

As the source of the ability of Akane, Mourner of Lost Memories seems to be the Void (or Kieran's, or Gazal).
So seems to be the source of Ariana's.
When a counter is put on a creature, it marks it and its fate for good or for bad.
In all these cases, Ariana can use her power and link to the Void to literally cut this fate, the counter behaving like a beacon.

+1
I would grant you title pillar of lore :)

ulpsz
03-27-2014, 12:00 AM
Enrage existed also since the beginning. And Ariana's power was not really described as linked to poison but counters since the beginning.
I see it no a kill to a poisoned creature but a kill to a marked creature.

Ariana of the Severed Fate.
She's a nethermancer and not some vanilla necromancer.
And she dabbles in Prime(Void) Magic.
Magic specialized in the obliteration or disparition of things. And Prime (Space/Time/Destiny/the rest) can into counter interaction after all.:rolleyes:
As the source of the ability of Akane, Mourner of Lost Memories seems to be the Void (or Kieran's, or Gazal).
So seems to be the source of Ariana's.
When a counter is put on a creature, it marks it and its fate for good or for bad.
In all these cases, Ariana can use her power and link to the Void to literally cut this fate, the counter behaving like a beacon.



I don't completeley agree with this but I see your point....and it is a valid one

imo (just imo!!!) a more narrow ability would have defined her better in a FACTION based game, in my veiw things should be more stereotype - at least in my case it helps beter with immersion

the idea with a marked creature, allthough a little out of proportion actually makes sense lorewise



so case closed for me in this matter

ArcaneAzmadi
03-29-2014, 08:28 AM
why so ?

Because it makes Ariana a specific hard counter to specific kinds of deck. Deck based around Enrage or Bloodthirst? Whoops, you're screwed. Thanks for trying, but surrender now. Hell, it turns those abilities into DRAWBACKS. Just because your opponent happens to be playing Ariana. Doesn't matter what her deck comp is at all, you're screwed if you rely heavily on those creatures.

Shambell
03-30-2014, 01:44 AM
I answered to the "flavor point of view".
Don't see the link with what you wrote.

Flavor wise, it can make sense.

What you answered is about the mechanical point of view.
And well, it can be strong and handy but in no way OP.
In normal play, you can't spam it brainlessly each turn without a backlash, it has a steep cost.

pacovf
03-30-2014, 06:14 PM
In normal play, you can't spam it brainlessly each turn without a backlash, it has a steep cost.

Hmmm... it costs as much as soul reaver, and soul reaver is THE signature card of dark magic, and close to an 4x auto-include. I find it weird that while Ariana has to play around the "counter" condition against other decks, this basically disappears against enrage/bloodthirst decks.

Probably my main wrip with it is how RARE cards that give positive counters are. If they were more common, then all factions would have to exercise restraint when playing against Ariana. Right now, only Stronghold has to play around her ability, and the possibility of losing any fatty at any time is especially bad for them. I find it weird.

And people that say that Kelthor does just fine against Ariana seem to be forgetting how strong that deck is, you can choose not to play any rage-able unit more expensive than Sahaar brutes and still win in most cases.

Of course, if the devs have decided that the card is fine as is, this discussion is pretty pointless, but still.

ulpsz
04-01-2014, 12:41 PM
I answered to the "flavor point of view".
Don't see the link with what you wrote.

Flavor wise, it can make sense.

What you answered is about the mechanical point of view.
And well, it can be strong and handy but in no way OP.
In normal play, you can't spam it brainlessly each turn without a backlash, it has a steep cost.

my concern was from both points of view...

now that keltor does not rely on erage anymore it's not a problem ...but in the old days when there were those decks with the warchanter that gave counters automaticaley..there was just silly how ariana could get rid of the highest potential threat anytime she wanted...basically endless soulreaver (which cost aslo 4 res)

i see it being a problem in bs2 tho..since they kept allmost all enrage creatures...

Shambell
04-01-2014, 01:23 PM
but in the old days when there were those decks with the warchanter that gave counters automaticaley..there was just silly how ariana could get rid of the highest potential threat anytime she wanted...basically endless soulreaver (which cost aslo 4 res)

Fun memories...:D
The ability to be autowin, your opponent had to be kind enough to play recklessly with counters as it was not always easy.
One thing I learned at the time was that Ariana as opponent = no warchanter played if victory wanted.
Or else you had some tricks in mind.
But yes, Ariana (Control) beat Kelthor (Aggro).

From what I learned, this ability is not "anytime she wanted", you must have counter on the targetable enemy, 4 res to use, your hand with enough cards to be able to pass a draw/your stats high enough to make you not slowing too much and have nothing else to worry about.
Sure, late game, when you control the board, the ability is good against some pesky critters like the BS Crusher. (but not OP, I prefer to draw another card if I have the choice).
But before, this ability is not spammable against aggro deck and if your walls/IS/EQ/the like are not enough... you are in for a tough time.

As for bs2, we'll see how it turn out.