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View Full Version : AI can see u in cloud ?



boltonlam
03-29-2004, 07:15 PM
???Why AI can see me in cloud ?I hide in a cloud,but AI plane can see me,follow me and fire at us too.

boltonlam
03-29-2004, 07:15 PM
???Why AI can see me in cloud ?I hide in a cloud,but AI plane can see me,follow me and fire at us too.

adlabs6
03-29-2004, 08:00 PM
Yes, and they can see you in the dark of night also. Just fight like you can't ever loose them, and you'll do better.

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DONB3397
03-29-2004, 08:03 PM
Advice -- When involved in offline combat, avoid clouds (and dark); they can see, you can't.

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mike_espo
03-29-2004, 08:56 PM
I thought the AI ability to see thru clouds was corrected in patches.....

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frag_bravo
03-29-2004, 09:02 PM
The IR goggles.LOL

Korolov
03-29-2004, 09:12 PM
TADS and FLIR. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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jenikovtaw
03-29-2004, 09:45 PM
That just kills so many cool points the game has otherwise.

JR_Greenhorn
03-29-2004, 10:49 PM
Its pretty complex coding to overcome it, I would think, especially in the dark of night. How do you program the AI to make the disticntion between "kind of" seeing an object to positively identifying it?
If you set visibility distances for AI in the dark, how do you account for restricted vision vs. the ability to positively identify an a/c?

Teufel_Eldritch
03-29-2004, 11:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by frag_bravo:
The IR goggles.LOL<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>zeh goggles! zey do nothing! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

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Rajvosa
03-29-2004, 11:28 PM
By the way, aren't clouds a bit too compact and dense? I mean, as you approach the cloud, it doesn't always seem so dense, but as you approach it, you don't even have to enter it, the world goes milky white.

Darn irritating!

Regards,

Jasko

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Leech_
03-29-2004, 11:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
How do you program the AI to make the disticntion between "kind of" seeing an object to positively identifying it?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fuzzy logic.

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EmptyStare
03-30-2004, 12:04 AM
just hope it gets fixed - (Probably wont ever BUT hope)

Sure if she wasn't a nazi and if she was still alive - I'd Hump Her.
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SeaFireLIV
03-30-2004, 12:11 AM
Yes, as the other guy said, the AI sees through cloud. In Campaign against AI, I NEVER enter cloud to lose them. It`s a pity, but I can see the difficulty in making the AI more blind in cloud. In CFS3 you can use cloud against AI, but the clouds are UGLY (as well as other things...) Thankfully, it`s easily avoided. Maybe, one day, Oleg will fix this.

Rajvosa
03-30-2004, 12:48 AM
Empty Stare -

Who's the chick in your sig? Hanna Reitsch (spelling?) I'd probably hump her, nazi or not http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Regards,

Jasko

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EmptyStare
03-30-2004, 02:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Who's the chick in your sig? Hanna Reitsch (spelling?) I'd probably hump her, nazi or not http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Yes its her. I mean dont get me wrong there were many more attractive females during that time period BUT its funny to say this thing about someone who actually met and praised hitler. Strange but its sort of like wanting to do your bosses wife(not that hitler is my boss) Because you hate the 'boss' http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Sure if she wasn't a nazi and if she was still alive - I'd Hump Her.
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LEXX_Luthor
03-30-2004, 02:27 AM
Jr_Greenhorn:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Its pretty complex coding to overcome it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey JR. Actually, its very simple code for both cases of AI behavior.

For night vision, just severely reduce the AI engagement range, which currently is 7km max during head on engagements but sometimes less when planes have different relative positions. Just reduce the range in all conditions when time is before or after FB sunrise and sunset. As a temp fix, for night missions I often leave a certain number of AI planes with Empty weapons, thus modding inability to see at night--fighters as well as bomber gunners.

Clouds:: Very easy to do. FB clouds can be modded as mathematical spheres, and in my space craft combat sim I am working on I use vector math to easily check if space craft are in front of or behind planets/moons and also--if a given target ship is between searching ship and a planet--I can easily check if the target ship is seen against the brilliant sunlit side or dark side of planet (effects detections efficiency). Also, this only needs to be checked every 5 seconds or so for each plane-plane matchup, and so will not crush CPU.

And...this procedure can be vastly simplified when considering that often clouds are not a factor when both planes are below the clouds or both planes are above the clouds.

The problem with clouds in FB is that the FB clouds are fixed map landscape Features (check it out) and we don't think the FB grafix code communicate with FB game code. If so, then the idea above will never work, and AI planes will always see through FB clouds as there can never be a fix. The AI does not know there are clouds.


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JR_Greenhorn
03-30-2004, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Hey JR. Actually, its very simple code for both cases of AI behavior.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, LEXX, I gues I didn't know for sure. I just took a shot in the dark as to why it hasen't yet been fixed.

So if game and grafix can't communicate, can the restriction of AI vision at night work?

Also, with the spherical clouds, how do you tell the AI when to do checks for obstructions and when to skip the checks to save the CPU?

How do you set up the vector equations, or is it proprietary?

michapma
03-30-2004, 08:56 AM
It's just as annoying that they can see through their own aircraft. No sneaking up on sixes, and they know to break off just when you get into gun range. Sigh...

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LEXX_Luthor
03-30-2004, 09:25 AM
JR:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Also, with the spherical clouds, how do you tell the AI when to do checks for obstructions and when to skip the checks to save the CPU?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Assume two planes. First, if both planes are above the clouds *or* both planes are below the clouds, no checks are needed cos in both cases no clouds will come between the two planes. Given the narrow altitude range of the clouds, this will reduce the number of planes enormously. Further, any two AI planes with a distance greater than the engagement range for the situation can be ignored----they won't see each other anyway and that range is 7km max now over the FB. These two reductions will reduce the total number of planes needing cloud checking to a relative few compared to the total that are flying in an offwhine mission mission at any given time.

Once every 3 seconds for each plane would be fine I think. Say we have 8 planes, 4 Blue and 4 Red. Each plane searches for enemy. Do the maths--draw a dot for each plane, one column for each side, and connect lines--we have 32 checks to perform. If its 2 Blue and 6 Red, then we have only 24 checks to do. Basically...

Number of checks = 2 x R x B , where R is number of Red planes and B is number of Blue planes. Basically, each dot must be connected to every other dot of opposing colour.

Notice that for any given total number of planes, the Number of checks needed is maximum when R = B , ie...a square gives largest area of any rectangle--same basic formula.

And checking is needed only for the few planes needing checking given the restrictions above.

I do my space combat sim with several hundred ships on each side every second, with multiple spherical "planets" (Saturn and its many large moons for example), and my Athalon 2000+ in my DOS machine handles it easily.

It won't be *exact* cos FB clouds are not exact mathematical spheres, but close enough that this would totally change the offwhine gaming experience. Its particlularly needed with the slow early WAR planes which spend alot more time at low level and need more time to fly through clouds and can even complete a turn inside a small FB cloud, unlike late war total NOOB planes that at high speed need half the map to turn around in.

The maths are easy if you use standard vector maths stuff like dot products and cross products. Those you will have to look up cos you won't find them here, at the ubi.com. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-30-2004, 12:20 PM
AI are haXors. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif



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