PDA

View Full Version : Mk108 30mm cannon is the same as before.



F19_Ob
07-22-2004, 03:52 AM
Ok I did the same test as previous patch.
Atleast 40 quickmissions and did single bops with cannon only.

As before many planes "can" sometimes be downed with one hit but also can remain flying after 3 hits, although they are badly damaged. So the results are the same as before.

P47 can still sometimes take up to 4-5 hits and fly.

P51d can take up to 3 hits but often gets damaged after one.


As before planes generally sustain hits better directly from behind where the blast will hit the edges of a wing or tail surface.
There is more damage if it hits from an angle and on to the surface.

--------------------------------------------------

Havent tested the axis 20mm cannons yet but on allied planes I seem to get better single hit results with p38 cannon on a 109 ,than i do with the 2 cannons on the spitfire.
I flew 10 QM each and the single cannon of the p38 caused the 109 to burn more often than with the spits 2 cannons.
10 missions is probably to few to be accurate, so it may be different if i do 20 missions more.

It surely would be interesting to see what u guys find about the p38 cannon compared to the spit. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Thu July 22 2004 at 03:12 AM.]

F19_Ob
07-22-2004, 03:52 AM
Ok I did the same test as previous patch.
Atleast 40 quickmissions and did single bops with cannon only.

As before many planes "can" sometimes be downed with one hit but also can remain flying after 3 hits, although they are badly damaged. So the results are the same as before.

P47 can still sometimes take up to 4-5 hits and fly.

P51d can take up to 3 hits but often gets damaged after one.


As before planes generally sustain hits better directly from behind where the blast will hit the edges of a wing or tail surface.
There is more damage if it hits from an angle and on to the surface.

--------------------------------------------------

Havent tested the axis 20mm cannons yet but on allied planes I seem to get better single hit results with p38 cannon on a 109 ,than i do with the 2 cannons on the spitfire.
I flew 10 QM each and the single cannon of the p38 caused the 109 to burn more often than with the spits 2 cannons.
10 missions is probably to few to be accurate, so it may be different if i do 20 missions more.

It surely would be interesting to see what u guys find about the p38 cannon compared to the spit. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Thu July 22 2004 at 03:12 AM.]

MEGILE
07-22-2004, 04:04 AM
hmm interesting about the cannons... maybe its because the P-38's cannon is boresighted, whereas the Spit has the cannons wing mounted.. i expect this would give different results, due to convergeance etc. maybe? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_files/public/p51lightj.jpg

Rab03
07-22-2004, 05:52 AM
Pierre Closterman's Tempest sustained AA fire 37mm hit near wing root + many minor ones and flew back to the base with almost no problem (I'm not certain wether the shell explodeed or not). He was aware that it was very close-he would have lost a wing if the hit had been several centimeters to the side.
I guess it comes to where the bullet hits.

VMF513_Sandman
07-22-2004, 06:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megile:
hmm interesting about the cannons... maybe its because the P-38's cannon is boresighted, whereas the Spit has the cannons wing mounted.. i expect this would give different results, due to convergeance etc. maybe? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_files/public/p51lightj.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

with only 1 cannon mounted on the lightning, convergance would be a moot point; wing guns obviously has more than 1, but my thought is, more cannon shells hitting, more devasation.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-22-2004, 06:16 AM
Hi,

I'm not sure if it's a little stronger.

However, I always had the 108 down as requiring 4-6 hits for a P47 and 1-2 for a wiped out P51...so, if that's up to 3 now then something has changed....but not my much.

Regards,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

Lifetaker999
07-22-2004, 10:25 AM
I don't see one thing wrong with the MK108. Well placed shots down pretty much ANYTHING in the game. Fighters have much less of a chance to survive than bombers against the 108. It blows tail and wing sections off with relative ease.

crazyivan1970
07-22-2004, 10:29 AM
Looks the same to me and it`s my favorite weapon, i`d notice by now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

F19_Ob
07-22-2004, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lifetaker999:
I don't see one thing wrong with the MK108. Well placed shots down pretty much ANYTHING in the game. Fighters have much less of a chance to survive than bombers against the 108. It blows tail and wing sections off with relative ease.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont see anything wrong,, or right either http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I just made 40 sorties to get an average and posted the result, as I did with the earlier patch, witch by the way wasnt just 40 testmissions. When I emptied my previous 30mm testfolder I contained 93 tracks with single bops....and the results the same as now.
He he, just wanted to clarify.

BS87
07-22-2004, 12:39 PM
They haven't changed one bit. They are still just as random as ever. Even though i fly the P38 mostly, i still can't understand why sometimes you can completely demolish a plane in 1-3 30/20mm hits, and other times it takes 5+, even when you hit the same area.

Lifetaker999
07-22-2004, 04:23 PM
I stand by my statement. Well placed wing and tail section shots take down any plane in this game period. That damm cannon is a monster in the hands of someone who knows how to use it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

crazyivan1970
07-22-2004, 04:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lifetaker999:
I stand by my statement. Well placed wing and tail section shots take down any plane in this game period. That damm cannon is a monster in the hands of someone who knows how to use it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It`s been a case for a while now. Can`t remember which patch fixed it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

meh_cd
07-22-2004, 04:29 PM
I don't care what anyone says, the 108 is a fine weapon in the hands of an ace, just as good as the 151 (most of the time). It's taste really, more ammo for less damage per shot or the other way around.

LuftLuver
07-22-2004, 04:41 PM
I don't care for it myself. I feel like a cheater when I use it. It's just too easy.

Flame on, I am not afraid.

http://www.fireweld.com.sg/Safety/Bristol/Suit1.jpg

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"All your bases are belong to us."

NegativeGee
07-22-2004, 05:45 PM
Hows this LL?

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/weapons-recent/flame.jpg

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

LuftLuver
07-24-2004, 04:44 PM
Dangit Gee,

Ya got me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"All your bases are belong to us."

steiner562
07-24-2004, 04:54 PM
So when you fly with 50cal you dont feel like a cheater NOW? maybe just an x-wing pilot? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
The force is OBIVOUSLY with you LL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.bf109.com/gallery/grayeagle/gallgray01sm.jpg

Atomic_Marten
07-24-2004, 05:33 PM
Yeah... the same as before.. it rockz. I've blast a few P47's with it but they're really tough to down. U must go fo engine or pit. I've put few 108ballz in its wings and jug continues to fly (more or less succesfully).

F19_Ob
07-24-2004, 05:39 PM
I was in the recieving end in a p47 today on f16. he he...I couldnt do anything after the first burst...but I was struggling to stay in the air for three more hits. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-24-2004, 05:48 PM
dont be like .50 whinners...


I agree with you totally, but for the principles, and the example, i wont whine about it.

------------------------------
www.checksix-fr.com (http://www.checksix-fr.com) Il2/FB/AEP co-webmaster
------------------------------------------------------------
Slot 2 pilot of the Virtual Haute Voltige team, and live video director

http://www.haute-voltige.com/virtualHVteam/concept.htm

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
07-24-2004, 06:33 PM
personaly i don't like the 108, and i am flying LW-planes.

i personaly hate them as i hate most of the rookie 109 Pilots.

these Guys are dangerous for the own team.

once u managed to outmanouver a plane in a FW (A-series is what i am Flying) and outmanouvering anything and getting into a good position or even behind the enemy is nothing which happens all day, it takes quite a bit time to get into a good position in a FW-A.

however i start shooting, scoring some hits (assuming that the enemy is not surprised the FW aint a 1-Shot killer, because u can't place the burst well) so u keep getting in position, and shooting, positioning and shooting, positioning and WTF; MK-108 rounds passing your flight-path.... a noobish 109er attacking my target, with me between both, well that's a nice feeling, and than u watch them how stupid they are to hit anything with this cannon, it is so easy to score with it, but they just keep spraying....spraying....and well that's why i hate them.
This BS forced me to break off attack run quite a lot of time and well for me:

- scored a few hits on him
- maybe even got him smoking
- and than u have such brainless asshat "stealing" your kill and not even whatching his shooting. may result in ramming or hitting you.

anyway, compared to this 12,7mm HMG the MG151/20 seem useless but this could be because u can'T see while shootin in a FW (u have a Bar, and u have the SMG in front blinding u all the time)

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/pics/ajatus.jpg

johann_thor
07-24-2004, 06:48 PM
forget about all this **** .... you have all seen the pics of what a 30mm does to a plane and the 30mm in game is just rubbish !

i just shot a P47 in 3 high speed passes ... at least 1-2 very visible explosions each time on wing, fuselage and nose ...... grrrrrrr

bloody fuel leak and some minor damage not worth mentioning ........ GRRRRRRRRR

yeah and those hispanos are kick-*** .... the worst 20mm of the war which did not even have high-explosive rounds ! just some solid-*** metal slugs ............

i am generally pissssssed offfffff to see aluminium planes eat minengeschoss like it was breakfast !

there...... i said it !

LuftLuver
07-24-2004, 10:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by steiner562:
So when you fly with 50cal you dont feel like a cheater NOW? maybe just an x-wing pilot? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
The force is OBIVOUSLY with you LL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.bf109.com/gallery/grayeagle/gallgray01sm.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes Steiner562, this is me below and the force IS with me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Anyway, it's only a game and they will never get it exactly right. Still fun though.

http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/kerberos/sci-fi/starwars/char/rebel/luke/luke06.jpg

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"All your bases are belong to us."

BennyMoore
07-25-2004, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:
Anyway, it's only a game and they will never get it exactly right. Still fun though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is now my view of the way things are. I am only sorry to have worn red tinted goggles for too long. I still enjoy the game.

My one goal is to make the P-38 Lightning a better plane in the game. Although I'd like it to be as close as possible to the real P-38, I'd settle for it just being made better now. It's sad, but so are some of the things in this game. However, I won't resort to posting balogna about it in order to have it made better than how it was in real life. I don't want it to be a superplane that everyone and his brother flies like the La-7 and Ki-84.

Anyway, no fear of that happening...

pourshot
07-25-2004, 02:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by johann_thor:


yeah and those hispanos are kick-*** .... the worst 20mm of the war which did not even have high-explosive rounds ! just some solid-*** metal slugs ............


there...... i said it !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



psssst dude your ignorance is showing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mysig.jpg
CAC CA-15 Kangaroo

Hoarmurath
07-25-2004, 02:41 AM
You know benny, your goal tell a lot about how you see that game and you in it... You don't intend to become a better pilot, but to have a better plane.

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Atomic_Marten
07-25-2004, 02:55 AM
What? oh no.... sad to hear that. I guess that using Mk108 is bad. I admit; I've been a bad, bad boy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

johann_thor
07-25-2004, 06:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pourshot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by johann_thor:


yeah and those hispanos are kick-*** .... the worst 20mm of the war which did not even have high-explosive rounds ! just some solid-*** metal slugs ............


there...... i said it !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



psssst dude your ignorance is showing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mysig.jpg
CAC CA-15 Kangaroo
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

jajajaja - this was meant to be an angry post and the Hispano comment is a little bonus for those who like to flame my post - a sort of dessert

but comparing the 20mm guns in the war - the Hispano does not score high until its mark 5 version - maintenance nightmare, cant fire under high G, problems with the high-explosive rounds in early war. and those HE rounds used later have very little HE content - they are sort of frag-rounds and not HE rounds

....... but i guess i am OT here so........

CancerKampfWagen Ausf g
07-25-2004, 07:22 AM
The thing thats wrong in il2 is that HE IS undermodeled and AP is overmodeled, try using 37 mm kanonenvogel stuka, you can take off a b17 wing at 1km with 1 shot if your lucky, but with mk108 which is only HE not much happends, all you see is the plane covered by fireballs lol

BennyMoore
07-25-2004, 01:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
You know benny, your goal tell a lot about how you see that game and you in it... You don't intend to become a better pilot, but to have a better plane.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, my goal is to become a better pilot in my favorite airplane when it's modelled as good or almost as good as it was in real life. Which it's currently not.

But I have lost faith in the realism of this game, which is why I would be content for the P-38 to just be made better than it is now instead of being made exactly as good as it was in real life.

BS87
07-25-2004, 02:51 PM
Benny, just what exactly is you're complaint with the P38? As it is now, in 2.04, i think it is modled alsmots perfect. It's my favorite plane to fly, and i can regularly get into a shooting position, and if my gunnery was not so bad, i'd shoot alot of things down with it.

BennyMoore
07-25-2004, 04:43 PM
You're either flying against very, very green pilots, or you're not flying one on one versus Ki-84s, La-7s, Yaks, Migs, or BF-109 G-6/AS's and later models.

My gripe? The L model is far to slow, both models have torque (because of flight model limitations, yes, but that doesn't mean that it's not a problem), both models likely (although I am only guessing on this) have too weak of rudder and especially elevator, and the stall speed is irrefuteably far, far too slow! Going by the P-38 pilot's handbook, the real life P-38 with maximum weight stalls a lot slower than Oleg's P-38 even with an much lighter weight. It doesn't matter what model it is, the stall speeds are the same for each weight (the manual lists three). When I get around to making my P-38 thread, I'll be pasting large excerpts from the manual.

Korolov
07-25-2004, 04:50 PM
This is getting off topic, but you *do* know the P-38 wasn't designed as a duelist plane, don't you? I've said it time and time again, the P-38 will not hold for long in a 1 on 1 unless the P-38 has a extreme advantage, such as altitude.

Don't try to turn it into something it wasn't.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

OldMan____
07-25-2004, 05:00 PM
I really dont know what problem you see. I´ve been reading lots of threads where you complain about P38, that it cant do this or that... and everytime I face one of them online I need to say .. " ohh look he is doing exactly what benny told he was unable too.. and.. oh ohh.. that Hispanos are shooting at me.. AAAAHHHHHH". that includes overrunning and overclimbing LW planes.

I can reach prerry well 560 IAS with it.. and you say it is SLOW? For sure is not one of the fastest.. but it is not slow.


I can only say one thing against P38.. they are a hell of a target.. very big and have a lot of area .. so hard to miss it. And for sure they can´t handle standard scissor aproach from a FW (but that is correct!!).

Today a passed 15 minutes chasing up and down one p38 in VWF.. my 190 was getting tired... so I finnaly had to shoot him from 600 m... my luck I had Mk103 pods.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

BennyMoore
07-25-2004, 08:24 PM
Are you deliberately confusing the issue, Oldman, or are you just not paying enough attention to my posts?

The P-38 J can go five hundred and fifty on the deck. The P-38 L can only go five hundred and ten. The United States Air Force told me in an e-mail that the two models have the same performance specifications, although the L has a very few more horsepower and weighs a few pounds more. I fly P-38 L because of the airbrake. At the very least, Oleg should make the L have the performance of the J. Unless you think that the United States Air Force representative is wrong, that is.

Also, I can muscle the P-38 into some pretty good firing solutions when I'm having a very good day. It's just not possible to win versus certain planes (obviously barring teaming and headons and the like, as you well know). If you get the best P-38 pilot in this community and the best Ki-84 pilot in the community, guess which one will win every single time? Then try giving the P-38 a two kilometer altitude advantage. Guess which one will still win every time, barring a very bad mistake on the Ki-84's part?

Try this. Instead of automatically contradicting me because my tone pisses you off or whatever, actually make tests under the conditions I describe and then &lt;strike&gt;eat crow&lt;/strike&gt; post your results.

Or, alternately, you windbags could prove it to me, which none of you seem interested in doing. It's always, and I repeat always, "Oh the P-38 in the game is a dangerous machine if you're a hotshot pilot like me! You just don't know how to use it, whiner." But no one will back that up, ever. The very best that I get is a cunning invitation to a Hyperlobby server, which the challenger full well knows I am unable to attend (because I usually just told him that in the previous post).

Above all, remember that I've repeatedly stated that I've never had a problem with FW-190s, which I generally regard as flying targets (except for the Dora, which is a late late war model) no matter what plane I'm flying. And this is even after I've had a successful night of flying FW-190s.

Korolov, I can hold my own for any amount of time versus any aircraft other than the ones which I've pointed out. And versus the ones which I've pointed out, there is no escape, even if you're kilometers above them.

What is your e-mail? I have a track to send you. I intend on recording a few more.

Korolov
07-25-2004, 09:33 PM
Ki-84s were never really a problem for me, but admittedly, I rarely face them as most of the time I'm flying ETO. La-7s are usually on my side (red), same goes for MiGs and Yaks; seems unlikely that you'd have trouble with MiGs however, as they tend to be flying flameballs. 109s on the other hand are a rather common opponent, but the only time I ever have a problem with them is when I've gotten too low or too slow. Additionally I believe that I have a advantage over you, since I fly with pit locked and externals off, giving me a much better chance at catching the unwary. Externals are turned on during VFC*Coops however, and I've yet to run into any big problems aside from compression in the coops featuring P-38s.

Since this is offtopic enough (isn't it about a Mk108?), I'll give you my email for those tracks and we can let the guys discussing the Mk108. The P-38 has been pounded on constantly and I don't think it's my place to comment on it.

So, email: franzebots@mechmodels.com

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

LeadSpitter_
07-26-2004, 01:05 AM
definatly stronger 1 hit

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v97/acespace/bs.jpg

START RUN type targert ipnumber to server to run a trace of the way your ip gets routed to server sounds like you are experience lag.

for me 1 hit of 108 can kill any us plane now even the p63 which it couldnt before. 3 hits it took previously.

Online it works the same sometimes on my screen planes will take us planes will take 2 hits before exploding into nothing i think its just lag.

20mm is blowing up mustangs ripping spitfires in two knocking off the booms of p38s snapping all cables on p47s in short bursts it definatly is not the same. I usually fly for about 6hrs everyday and i certainly notice it stronger, I think the us people notice it two as i see many of them say online is the 108 stronger, just as many people say that as germans say .50 cal is now killing thier plane in a good 3 second burst

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

OldMan____
07-26-2004, 05:21 AM
For sure german 20 mm is slightly different now. And agree now a FW190 can rip an allied plane in a short burst (but 4 cannons should do that!!) The exception is the p47 that can take 1/3 of my 190 ammo before going down. I feel 20mm is more incendiary now... but I might be wrong.

And .50 is not killing in 3 second bursts.. its killing in a less than one second burst... but not big deal with this.


30mm still does not kill in one shot. Tryed a lot of times.. about 60 percent time it does.. other 40 percent it needs 3-4 bullets. Strangely depends on plane. P38 seems to hate 30 mm bullets.. and is riped fairly easy. P51 is very though from exactly 6 o clock level... but is very fragile for 20 mm guns.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

alarmer
07-26-2004, 05:56 AM
Leadspitter:

Please stop posting that fantasy MK108 kill! That doesnt qualify as realistic shot, its just propaganda.

Post a track how you did that, untill you do that, dont even try to bring that picture as "proof".

Everybody who has fired Mk108 knows its a shotgun. Accurate only from close distances, for me that is closer than 200m.

I runned 30mm tests yesterday for more than hour, in it I shot 30mm bursts at P51D from dead six to its fuselage. It took average 3 rounds to destroy P51. Which is noteworthy is that the explosive rounds are weak compared to AP bullets. Shouldnt it be the other way around.

Personally I dont see any difference in 20mm performance. In that gun too the AP bullet seems to snap off a wing easily but mingenshosen (forgive my deutch) doesnt do the trick.

[This message was edited by alarmer on Mon July 26 2004 at 05:05 AM.]

OldMan____
07-26-2004, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
Are you deliberately confusing the issue, Oldman, or are you just not paying enough attention to my posts?

The P-38 J can go five hundred and fifty on the deck. The P-38 L can only go five hundred and ten. The United States Air Force told me in an e-mail that the two models have the same performance specifications, although the L has a very few more horsepower and weighs a few pounds more. I fly P-38 L because of the airbrake. At the very least, Oleg should make the L have the performance of the J. Unless you think that the United States Air Force representative is wrong, that is.

Also, I can muscle the P-38 into some pretty good firing solutions when I'm having a very good day. It's just not possible to win versus certain planes (obviously barring teaming and headons and the like, as you well know). If you get the best P-38 pilot in this community and the best Ki-84 pilot in the community, guess which one will win every single time? Then try giving the P-38 a two kilometer altitude advantage. Guess which one will still win every time, barring a very bad mistake on the Ki-84's part?

Try this. Instead of automatically contradicting me because my tone pisses you off or whatever, actually make tests under the conditions I describe and then &lt;strike&gt;eat crow&lt;/strike&gt; post your results.

Or, alternately, you windbags could prove it to me, which none of you seem interested in doing. It's always, and I repeat always, "Oh the P-38 in the game is a dangerous machine if you're a hotshot pilot like me! You just don't know how to use it, whiner." But no one will back that up, ever. The very best that I get is a cunning invitation to a Hyperlobby server, which the challenger full well knows I am unable to attend (because I usually just told him that in the previous post).

Above all, remember that I've repeatedly stated that I've never had a problem with FW-190s, which I generally regard as flying targets (except for the Dora, which is a late late war model) no matter what plane I'm flying. And this is even after I've had a successful night of flying FW-190s.

Korolov, I can hold my own for any amount of time versus any aircraft other than the ones which I've pointed out. And versus the ones which I've pointed out, there is no escape, even if you're kilometers above them.

What is your e-mail? I have a track to send you. I intend on recording a few more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

a Ki-84 will defeat ANYTHING most of time. Not even an La-7 is a match for it. So don't use it as comparison.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

LeadSpitter_
07-26-2004, 07:35 AM
yawn shot from in game fantasy&gt; screen shot from the game fantasy wtf you people are unbelievable. Just like real guncameras being called fantasy propaganda footage. Like they would really setup a pilot of thier own side and a captured plane to be shot at just for propaganda footage.

Im not saying it as any proof or nothing sometimes 108 can rip off a wing in one at that range sometimes it blows up the mustang into nothing with 1 hit depending where it hits, sometimes it takes 3 hits to the fuselage and pilot bails, other times one tail shot will kill the engine. Sometimes the wings can take up to 3 hits before ripping off. And yes its a very hard shot especially from in the cockpit, the no cockpit site has marking which you can place the shot alot easier.

I wont even bother with you anymore, this whining is getting so boring and ruining these forums. You will still whine like a stuck pig even if i waste the time to send you the track which took about 60 tries to get.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
07-26-2004, 10:46 AM
Hi,

This '108 is ALWAYS a one shot kill on P51, P47 or P63' assertion is quite amusing in an ironic way; to spend some sweaty-palm time getting into a snap-shot firing position and to see a plane with 2 mk108 shell hits only to fly off with a fuel leak always raises an eyebrow.

P51s take 1-3 shots on average (more likely 2-3), P63s seem to never come apart (oh, the elevator will fall off, though) but they will go down with between 2-3 hits and the P47 takes 4-6 hits.

P38? About 2-3 although you can take off the elevator section with one hit if you are lucky.

The Spit takes around 1-2 hits.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Like they would really setup a pilot of thier own side and a captured plane to be shot at just for propaganda footage.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not the point about the guncam footage.

When I made the point about this, I suggested that it was not possible to determine if the guncam footage was *representative* of a typical attack because you'd have to see a substantial amount of guncam footage to see whether this, indeed, was typical. A considerable amount of guncam footage was obtained for newsreel propaganda so would have been *selected* to please the audiences as to the effectiveness of their armed forces.

Sorry to be completely obvious but take the Spit hit by a Mk108 picture, for instance; was this picture taken by the British or was the plane downed and the picture taken for propaganda purposes by the Axis forces? If the former, I would put a higher accuracy value on the image as for the latter as the British as hardly likely to want to publicise how dangerous this weapon is/was.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible